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Genuinous

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More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg310203#msg310203
« on: April 12, 2011, 12:07:39 AM »
What do you do when you get bored of facing the same FGs and slow stalldecks? Some faster grinding. Then the question, whether play T50 or AI3. Well AI3 is full of farms, you wanna have some fun, so lets go beat up AI3. But within 30 mins you have to realise that you are facing the same decks over and over again.... And then you think.... "More AI3 decks por favor"

I think there should be a greater variety of AI3 decks. Somewhere (if approved) we should have possible decks posted and with the help of the community and trainer we can make them balanced. There are loads of possible combinations, which, imo, could be the base for great AI3 decks. These decks should have some rares as well. However, not all of the decks should possess rares, simply because this would make huge difference in the value of the rares. (Half the decks with rares, half without I would suggest)

If we consider adding all the rares (15) in separate decks and then (15) other decks (approximates) these would make a balanced collection of AI3 decks (I think at least). This would be useful in many ways, new players (and those who lack them) could have more ways of getting rares, while playing an interesting and versatile collection of decks. The more types, the better I think. New player would also benefit from these decks, they would face many types, learn and improve themselves.

So... How about creating new decks for AI3? (I think we should keep the decks what we have now, they are good and balanced, we should focus on new ones imo)

Note: Currently there are 13 different AI3 decks. These involve all 3 non-weapon rares, but only 10 out of the 12 rare weapons. Right now farming T50 is an option to get the rares, but with War, not necessiary finding all rares needed and T500 coming up (sooner-or-later it will) it would be important to prepare a decent, balanced and reliable AI3.

Any additional idea is welcomed, so let's make something happen. (AI3 deck suggestions are really down, while we have lot of FG proposals)


1) How many Elders should there be?
2) How can Elders be balanced?
3) Should it be more challenging? How newbie-friendly should AI3 be? How easy to beat?
4) Can we have stalls and rushes?

Feel free to answer the questions, these are the ideas I had in mind. Also if a bigger question would come up, it could be added in a poll.

Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg318177#msg318177
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 09:08:26 AM »
It might be a good idea to get an "AI3 Proposal" section, alongside with FG Proposal. That way, people can start thinking about the Level 3 decks more often, and Zanz can come up and change them more easily. Also, if we show interest, he's more likely to take up the issue.
I do agree that more AI3 would be nice. I don't think it would be much of a problem for the coding, as decks are just strings AFAIK.

So, my suggestion would be:
1) Talk to SG / the Council about adding a new section.
2) In order to add a new section, gather a few people that would contribute to the section with ideas, feedback etc. Count me in if need be.
3) Let the section flourish / perish.
4)  :-\
5) Profit!
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Offline rowcla

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319425#msg319425
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 07:06:10 AM »
agreed, we need new level three decks, if we did get them i would totally get back into elements even if it did mean screwing up my awesome score
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QuantumT

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319428#msg319428
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 07:10:31 AM »
We could start by just putting the old AI3 decks back in.

Offline rowcla

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319465#msg319465
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 08:31:59 AM »
We could start by just putting the old AI3 decks back in.
they were easier, it would be bad to have a half of the decks being easier than the rest, they all need to be around the same difficulty
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QuantumT

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319467#msg319467
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 08:36:21 AM »
We could start by just putting the old AI3 decks back in.
they were easier, it would be bad to have a half of the decks being easier than the rest, they all need to be around the same difficulty
I don't think some variance is bad. And besides, the FGs have a much bigger difference in difficulty than AI3 would. Gods like Destiny and Paradox are barely even comparable to Hermes and Rainbow.

The decks could also be updated with the newer cards (give the FFQ elder Hope for example).

Offline rowcla

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319468#msg319468
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 08:39:33 AM »
We could start by just putting the old AI3 decks back in.
they were easier, it would be bad to have a half of the decks being easier than the rest, they all need to be around the same difficulty
I don't think some variance is bad. And besides, the FGs have a much bigger difference in difficulty than AI3 would. Gods like Destiny and Paradox are barely even comparable to Hermes and Rainbow.

The decks could also be updated with the newer cards (give the FFQ elder Hope for example).
I still reckon that an equal difficulty would be better, and it wouldnt be that hard to make new decks anyway
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Offline Shantu

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319473#msg319473
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 09:03:19 AM »
I support the creation of an Elder proposal section. Making AI3 decks is fun, in my opinion, and when the time comes for new Elders to enter the game, Zanz could take the best ones, which could be either voted by the community/council, or chosen by himself.

Offline Tiko

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319477#msg319477
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 09:24:21 AM »
We could start by just putting the old AI3 decks back in.
they were easier, it would be bad to have a half of the decks being easier than the rest, they all need to be around the same difficulty
I don't think some variance is bad. And besides, the FGs have a much bigger difference in difficulty than AI3 would. Gods like Destiny and Paradox are barely even comparable to Hermes and Rainbow.

The decks could also be updated with the newer cards (give the FFQ elder Hope for example).
I still reckon that an equal difficulty would be better, and it wouldnt be that hard to make new decks anyway
The old Elders could be put back in with a little 'lookover', to make them slightly more streamlined. For example, the Squid-Flayer Fractal one was quite annoying powerful in it's own right, but lacking in real damage; but on the other part, the mini-Destiny was a joke overall.

Anyway, an Elder Proposition section would be great; we should really have et least as much elders as False Gods. (we have 29 FGs, 144 possible HBs, and only 13 Elders..)

-- And another thing: it would be awesome for the Elders to have their names too, in my opinion, because they also have fixed decks, and they've probably become elders for a reason :] (Baptize the Elders competition?)
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg319486#msg319486
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 09:55:47 AM »
-- And another thing: it would be awesome for the Elders to have their names too, in my opinion, because they also have fixed decks, and they've probably become elders for a reason :] (Baptize the Elders competition?)
That looks like fun! :)
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Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

Genuinous

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg322901#msg322901
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 08:36:03 PM »
Sorry for all those who commented, for being a little late with response on this thread. First we should decide a couple of things, before I present the idea for the higher Authorities.

1) How many Elders should there be?
2) How can Elders be balanced?
3) Should it be more challenging? How newbie-friendly should AI3 be? How easy to beat?
4) Can we have stalls and rushes?



1 The variety would be more important, the greater the variety, the better.
2 I think we should take certain decks, for which the TTW and the winning % has been calculated already. Then we can test the new deck ideas for these aspects in trainer to see how they fit. I think if the results match, the AI3 suggestion is pretty balanced.
3 I think AI3 is balanced right now, but comments are welcomed. Easy decks are there for AI 0-2, 3 should have some degree of challenge. AI3 could be a great educational step for newbies, who could see various decks, how they work and what type of cards they require, but at the same time have a better chance to win against them, then the fully upped Top50 decks.
4 I think we should allow stalls and rushes for the AI3, however be careful with the balance. A perfect unupped firestall would be really discouraging for new players and getting beaten in 4 turns by an Immo-Golem rush as well. These decks still could be added in a tweak version, which would grant  better winning percentage for new players.


Please comment and give further suggestions. These were just my first couple ideas. Let's keep this topic alive and establish the basis for a further Elder Proposal section.

Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: More AI3 decks http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24294.msg322927#msg322927
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 09:00:49 PM »
In my opinion, AI3 Grinding is about one fourth of this whole game for most experienced players (with one half being PvP Events and the rest being FG/T50).
Therefore, having at least the same number of Elders as there are FGs would be nice. About 30 elders to start with, possibly some more in the future.

Regarding balancing the Elders, I don't think it is needed - I remember my first days farming when I had troubles fighting the level 3, but managed to kill every one of them... except the water/aether one. I hated him so much I started emulating his deck... I think having tougher opponents alongside smaller, weaker ones would be fun. :)

As for AI3 being challanging... the whole point of AI3 is being semi-functional decks that are easily outmatched by full-blown decks but are a tough opponent for inexprienced players. The level they are now is about right for that, even a little easy.

As for stalls and rushes... it depends on wether we want to be able to farm the AI3s easily or not. A wings stall, for instance, would kill USEM pretty hard, while a speed poison could hamper seriously an immorush... How much should we be able to farm them?
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

 

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