Post by: eaglgenes101 on June 21, 2012, 07:53:38 pm
Once, Shakar's Revenge (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14435.msg182852.html) was a solid deck with a 30% winrate and a reputation for being fast. Then the false gods figured it out, it got a 20% winrate, and Instosis took its reputation for being fast. But now, it has regained it power and speed, and hopefully, it will regain its reputation.
The key card here is Shard of Bravery, a powerful little card introduced in 1.30 that draws 2 cards for both players. Against FG's, the backfire is minimized, and in this deck, it can even help in some cases.
This deck is extremely customizable. Possible mods include more voodoo dolls and gravity forces, precogs or sundials instead of SoBes, Antimatter, Lobotomizer, Mirror shield, and a number of other possibilities.
Nova verison by Zso_Zso:
Strategy:
Speed draw with Shard of Bravery, but be careful not to use up SoBes uselessly or to accidentally summon singularities. When you manage to draw the combo of Voodoo doll + a few Basilisk Blood + Gravity Force, you can play the voodoo doll with gravity pull and stick enough basilisk bloods to allow the doll to survive with the gravity force on its back. Don't stick them all on yet, as you may want to stop a creature or weapon for 6 turns. Now wait until you can use one or more twin universes to multiply the inflicted damage to 200 HP, then do so.
Advanced tricks:
- If you run across a problematic creature like a momentum'd creature, you can put BB on it to stall it for 6 turns.
- This is an extension of the previous trick. If you really need more quanta, you can fire off SN's multiple times and BB the singularities if you need to. Be very careful, as the sings may become problems very quickly.
- Also an extension of the first trick. BBing a doll will delay a present FG weapon. This doesn't work for empty slots.
- If your doll can't survive another turn but you can, TU it so there's a copy you can put GF and BB's on later.
- Unless there's a threat damage bypassing your doll and killing you, you can afford to play the doll at the last second, as it'll direct all the non-momentum physical damage from you.
- This is an inverse of the previous trick. If there's a threat of damage getting around your doll, leave plenty of HP so you don't die.
- Extra dolls are useful to absorb CC and/or clear out the FG's hand.
- Giant creature going fry your voodoo doll quickly? You can TU it, and depending on the situation, use a spare GF on it to kill it or use the copy to finish off the FG.
- Some FG's have GF's of their own. If you can't dig up a GF from your deck, try putting out a doll with BB's and see if the FG will put GF on it.
- Keep in mind what the FG can and can't do. There's no reason to panic if you or your doll can't be killed the following turn. If there's damage bypass, try to estimate how much it could possibly be next turn. Et Cetera.
For individual gods:
Akebono- 4 Momentums. 4 Chimeras. 2 Titans. Beware of the possibility of momentum, but it shouldn't be too bad if you start the combo early and reserve BB's to stop momentum. Medium.
Chaos Lord- You might be able to win by copying mutants, but keeping the doll on the field is a tall order with all the mutations and druids. Skip.
Dark Matter- There are too many chargers to stop, and too many BH's to get around. Skip.
Decay- Surprisingly, it's entirely possible to win against Decay, though I haven't done it yet. Apparently, the trick if squeezing the doll combo in before lockdown stops you. You'll have to wait to win, so I usually skip it. Hard.
Destiny- Too many rewinds and thus too high a chance to be screwed. Skip.
Divine Glory- Keep an eye on her light quanta and your doll's HP. Make good use of weapon delaying. Easy.
Dream Catcher- Some denial, but she can't screw your doll if it's already out and combo'd. Keep your eyes open. Medium.
Elidnis- Healing, but it's not too much. PU, but it's only occasionally a threat if you're playing it fast enough. Easy.
Eternal Phoenix- There's fractal, but thankfully SoBe disrupts that. Still, keep an eye out for possible damage bursts and bolts. Medium.
Ferox- Healing is ridiculous, and creature damage is unpredictable, but there's no control or defense breaking. Use BB's on dragons to buy some turns. Medium.
Fire Queen- Damage is fairly easily predicted, but mind fire bolts and weapons, both in the slot and flown. Medium.
Gemini- Momentum and PU. Keep an eye on the aether quanta to ensure a PU blitz doesn't kill you. Medium.
Graviton- Plenty of momentum, but nothing that can wipe your doll away, and little burst damage. Hard.
Hecate- Her highest damage cards usually do single-digits damage, though plenty of damage damages you directly. You can copy her doll to do the combo in a pinch, or copy a vampirific doll to heal. Medium.
Hermes- No real threats besides bolts and fast damage. Go as fast as possible to handle them. Easy.
Incarnate- Send out all your dolls to collect retrovirus poison. Some burst potential and healing, but both can be estimated. Your worst nightmare will be Eclipse. Easy.
Jezebel- Only real problem is what nymphs come, and that can be helped with speed and getting Jezebel to steal your towers. Easy.
Lionheart- Race quickly to get your doll out before Lionheart can get his Eternity. If it does come out, do your best to delay it. Quit if your doll is rewound. Hard.
Miracle- Copy the dragons. Go for a doll at the last minute, but Miracle has incredible burst power. Medium.
Morte- Try to go as fast as possible before poison damage kills you. You can't really stop poison with a doll, so leave around 50 HP to survive poison. Easy.
Neptune- Incredibly, Neptune doesn't know to freeze+shockwave a doll, so it's easier than you think. Easy.
Obliterator- Plenty of momentum, but if you get through that, Obby's control goes nowhere. Hard.
Octane- UG's. Tons of them. Almost impossible, but if you can get Octane to send out EE's, it's possible. Hard.
Osiris- Four risks. To handle the momentum, leave around 60 HP to survive. To handle catapult and RT, go really, really quickly. To handle the scarab's devouring, watch the HP of your doll. Hard.
Paradox- No real control (Theoretically, Paradox could KO you with a PU blitz on a doll, but it never happens), but plenty of burst potential through Deja Vu and PU. Medium.
Rainbow- You can predict most of the burst damage. Tons of control, but a doll doesn't need to worry about it. Easy.
Scorpio- Tons of poison damage. Try to round up all the non-poison damage and deposit it onto a surviving doll. Hard.
Seism- Serious amounts of RT's. Skip.
Serket- Round up any damage you can, since any damage that can pass through the doll can seriously hurt you over time. Burst damage comes later. Hard.
Chaos Lord- You might be able to win by copying mutants, but keeping the doll on the field is a tall order with all the mutations and druids. Skip.
Dark Matter- There are too many chargers to stop, and too many BH's to get around. Skip.
Decay- Surprisingly, it's entirely possible to win against Decay, though I haven't done it yet. Apparently, the trick if squeezing the doll combo in before lockdown stops you. You'll have to wait to win, so I usually skip it. Hard.
Destiny- Too many rewinds and thus too high a chance to be screwed. Skip.
Divine Glory- Keep an eye on her light quanta and your doll's HP. Make good use of weapon delaying. Easy.
Dream Catcher- Some denial, but she can't screw your doll if it's already out and combo'd. Keep your eyes open. Medium.
Elidnis- Healing, but it's not too much. PU, but it's only occasionally a threat if you're playing it fast enough. Easy.
Eternal Phoenix- There's fractal, but thankfully SoBe disrupts that. Still, keep an eye out for possible damage bursts and bolts. Medium.
Ferox- Healing is ridiculous, and creature damage is unpredictable, but there's no control or defense breaking. Use BB's on dragons to buy some turns. Medium.
Fire Queen- Damage is fairly easily predicted, but mind fire bolts and weapons, both in the slot and flown. Medium.
Gemini- Momentum and PU. Keep an eye on the aether quanta to ensure a PU blitz doesn't kill you. Medium.
Graviton- Plenty of momentum, but nothing that can wipe your doll away, and little burst damage. Hard.
Hecate- Her highest damage cards usually do single-digits damage, though plenty of damage damages you directly. You can copy her doll to do the combo in a pinch, or copy a vampirific doll to heal. Medium.
Hermes- No real threats besides bolts and fast damage. Go as fast as possible to handle them. Easy.
Incarnate- Send out all your dolls to collect retrovirus poison. Some burst potential and healing, but both can be estimated. Your worst nightmare will be Eclipse. Easy.
Jezebel- Only real problem is what nymphs come, and that can be helped with speed and getting Jezebel to steal your towers. Easy.
Lionheart- Race quickly to get your doll out before Lionheart can get his Eternity. If it does come out, do your best to delay it. Quit if your doll is rewound. Hard.
Miracle- Copy the dragons. Go for a doll at the last minute, but Miracle has incredible burst power. Medium.
Morte- Try to go as fast as possible before poison damage kills you. You can't really stop poison with a doll, so leave around 50 HP to survive poison. Easy.
Neptune- Incredibly, Neptune doesn't know to freeze+shockwave a doll, so it's easier than you think. Easy.
Obliterator- Plenty of momentum, but if you get through that, Obby's control goes nowhere. Hard.
Octane- UG's. Tons of them. Almost impossible, but if you can get Octane to send out EE's, it's possible. Hard.
Osiris- Four risks. To handle the momentum, leave around 60 HP to survive. To handle catapult and RT, go really, really quickly. To handle the scarab's devouring, watch the HP of your doll. Hard.
Paradox- No real control (Theoretically, Paradox could KO you with a PU blitz on a doll, but it never happens), but plenty of burst potential through Deja Vu and PU. Medium.
Rainbow- You can predict most of the burst damage. Tons of control, but a doll doesn't need to worry about it. Easy.
Scorpio- Tons of poison damage. Try to round up all the non-poison damage and deposit it onto a surviving doll. Hard.
Seism- Serious amounts of RT's. Skip.
Serket- Round up any damage you can, since any damage that can pass through the doll can seriously hurt you over time. Burst damage comes later. Hard.
Stats:
| deck | Voodoo Bravery (5 SN) |
| player | CuCN |
| version | 1.321 |
| games | 162 |
| win-loss-(EM) | 76-86-(3) |
| time (h:m:s) | 03:44:35 |
| min/game | 01:23 |
| win-rate | 46.91% |
| normalized | 46.48% |
| FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626) | 8493 |
| FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626) | 8417 |
| wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins | |
| Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 3 2 4 3 7 2 1 2 2 4 2 2 6 2 4 7 1 5 1 2 2 5 3 4 | 4 5 3 2 2 3 2 1 3 6 1 1 2 2 1 3 3 1 4 4 4 5 2 3 | 8 3 8 | 1 1 1 |
Post by: Chapuz on June 21, 2012, 09:01:06 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on June 22, 2012, 05:26:08 am
Remember that Shak'Ars stopped being that effective when FGs learned to rewind and mutate BB and GP dolls. The problem wasn't the deck's speed, it was the amount of unwinnable FGs.SoBe's speed lets there be plenty of room for anti countering (Think: leaving plenty of HP to prevent poison from killing you), so really, the only things that really screw over this deck are intense denial, intense defense bypass, and RT.
Post by: Chapuz on June 22, 2012, 09:06:01 am
And mutation, and sometimes the fact that AI doesn't cast any creature until it can kill a GPd doll (like fractalling phoenixes, spamming scarabs and fireflies, playing and buffing any creature in general)Remember that Shak'Ars stopped being that effective when FGs learned to rewind and mutate BB and GP dolls. The problem wasn't the deck's speed, it was the amount of unwinnable FGs.SoBe's speed lets there be plenty of room for anti countering (Think: leaving plenty of HP to prevent poison from killing you), so really, the only things that really screw over this deck are intense denial, intense defense bypass, and RT.
Post by: DigitalHero07 on June 30, 2012, 10:43:30 pm
I recognized that when you put some sundials the deck works better, but when you put SoBe its amazing!
I have just 2 SoBe and my deck is this right now:
I am having lots of fun against the halfbloods xD
Post by: eaglgenes101 on July 01, 2012, 03:16:06 am
Mutation, leave plenty of HP to absorb, and bait the AI. I haven't seen the AI hold back creatures like you describe. SoBe disrupts fractal and encourages the AI to play something.And mutation, and sometimes the fact that AI doesn't cast any creature until it can kill a GPd doll (like fractalling phoenixes, spamming scarabs and fireflies, playing and buffing any creature in general)Remember that Shak'Ars stopped being that effective when FGs learned to rewind and mutate BB and GP dolls. The problem wasn't the deck's speed, it was the amount of unwinnable FGs.SoBe's speed lets there be plenty of room for anti countering (Think: leaving plenty of HP to prevent poison from killing you), so really, the only things that really screw over this deck are intense denial, intense defense bypass, and RT.
Post by: Mathematistic on July 01, 2012, 07:30:48 am
1. FG gets more cards. That means damage is more uncontrollable and while you are gathering stuff for the combo, the FG probably has hurt you quite a bit.
2. SoB is not that useful. When you hand gets clogged and you can't get the combo, SoB will make your hand remain cloggy.
3. 6SN is meh now. This makes the win spectrum more narrow, as generally, SN decks are more weak to quanta denial now.
This just even out with precog with its benefits of more cards and as well giving FGs a headstart to bolt you down. Good idea though.
(SoB draw engine... personally never agreed with it)
Post by: umgrego2 on July 13, 2012, 02:46:33 pm
,
and I've got two questions:
1. Is there a block on playing multiple SoBes on the same turn?
2. Do momentum'd creatures bypass the VD?
Post by: Chapuz on July 13, 2012, 02:58:33 pm
and I've got two questions:1. Both players draw the same amount of cards. If the oponent has 7 cards, then you won't draw any card with a SoB.
1. Is there a block on playing multiple SoBes on the same turn?
2. Do momentum'd creatures bypass the VD?
2. Yes, momentum bypasses gravity pull.
Post by: umgrego2 on July 13, 2012, 03:22:43 pm
and I've got two questions:1. Both players draw the same amount of cards. If the oponent has 7 cards, then you won't draw any card with a SoB.
1. Is there a block on playing multiple SoBes on the same turn?
2. Do momentum'd creatures bypass the VD?
2. Yes, momentum bypasses gravity pull.
1. Right; silly me. That makes sense.
2. Interesting. Always thought that the text for that card said "ignores shields" but now I see it "ignores shield effects".
Always learning. Thanks, Chapuz
EDIT: Ok, but here's another question; Gravity Pull says that it "absorbs ALL the damage". How is it determined which card trumps the other? Also, why doesn't Gravity Pull take the damage from a weapon? I have to say that this deck is looking less and less appealing.
EDIT2: Wait, sanctuary also blocks SoBravery? even less appealing
Post by: Chapuz on July 13, 2012, 03:36:50 pm
Sanctuary protects your hand: -Silence, Nightmare and SoB- and your quanta pool.
Post by: Mathematistic on July 13, 2012, 03:38:07 pm
OK, so I've only just begun playing around with this (dont have six SoBes or enough electrum for BB),,
and I've got two questions:
1. Is there a block on playing multiple SoBes on the same turn?
2. Do momentum'd creatures bypass the VD?
Wrong upgrade sequence here... BBs are the most important cards to up! Especially when SoBs are around! Doesn't matter though, grind for the rest of them.
Concerning your questions:
Think of it this way; GPull makes your creature a "meat-shield". which is also a shield that blocks damage for you. Momentum bypasses shields, including meat-shields.
You cannot alter your opponent's hand during your opponents turn if sanctuary is in effect. Including forcing them to draw. But... which FG has sanctuary anyways? (Voodoo is not really good vs arena as is instosis, both are nice FG grinders though)
grav pull absorbs all the phisical damage. No spell damage (Psion, SoW) and momentumed.
Sanctuary protects your hand: -Silence, Nightmare and SoB- and your quanta pool.
*Takes out ninja-cide spray*
Post by: umgrego2 on July 13, 2012, 03:44:26 pm
I didn't upgrade with this hand in mind. I just happened to have those cards upgraded already.
Wrong upgrade sequence here... BBs are the most important cards to up! Especially when SoBs are around! Doesn't matter though, grind for the rest of them.
But... which FG has sanctuary anyways? (Voodoo is not really good vs arena as is instosis, both are nice FG grinders though)
The Post Subject says [Arena], so that's where I was trying it. Will try it in FG, instead. But, am I the only one who focuses on Arena instead of FG in order to accumulate all these new shards?
Post by: TheFallenHero94 on July 16, 2012, 07:12:01 pm
Also i will do a god by god breakdown for the top deck.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on July 17, 2012, 03:56:14 pm
As far as i can tell the top one works the best. It is the most consistent. And means you will defenitly get enough parrallel universes.Tip: At times, it may be wise to use SN twice then BB the singularity.
Also i will do a god by god breakdown for the top deck.
Post by: umgrego2 on August 13, 2012, 04:22:36 pm
Mutation, leave plenty of HP to absorb, and bait the AI. I haven't seen the AI hold back creatures like you describe. SoBe disrupts fractal and encourages the AI to play something.And mutation, and sometimes the fact that AI doesn't cast any creature until it can kill a GPd doll (like fractalling phoenixes, spamming scarabs and fireflies, playing and buffing any creature in general)Remember that Shak'Ars stopped being that effective when FGs learned to rewind and mutate BB and GP dolls. The problem wasn't the deck's speed, it was the amount of unwinnable FGs.SoBe's speed lets there be plenty of room for anti countering (Think: leaving plenty of HP to prevent poison from killing you), so really, the only things that really screw over this deck are intense denial, intense defense bypass, and RT.
I can confirm that AI does hold back creatures. Witnessed it against Morte. He played three creatures in one turn (only drew two cards) and definitely had the quanta to play all of them the previous turn. The play of three creatures was enough to knockout the VD
EDIT: forgot to mention that the inconsistency of drawing a combo (especially when there's only two of each card) kills this deck. The SoBravery may get you halfway through your deck in a hurry, but too many times you haven't drawn both a VD AND a GravPull while the damage you've received is unsustainable.
Also, one FG that you won't win against is Neptune, with his congeal-->shockwave combo
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 23, 2012, 11:17:37 am
will probably be given a boost, both absolute and relative to the competition, in 1.32 (I'm assuming the AI won't be more paranoid about this deck in 1.32) if SoBe also changes as is planned. This deck, like the original Shakar's in its prime, doesn't win often, but when it does, it wins very quickly (I'm talking about 6 TTW in the trainer). Happy FG semi-rushing!
Post by: TribalTrouble on December 28, 2012, 04:10:18 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 28, 2012, 08:52:31 am
to clarify, which area of the arena is this deck built for? Plat? Gold? Silver?Whichever arena has the least counters to this deck. Don't try now; this deck fails against farms.
Post by: Chapuz on December 29, 2012, 02:13:02 am
Post by: Chapuz on December 30, 2012, 10:33:30 pm
Decay- Hopefully Decay will get a nightfall and the pests will start damaging your doll. If it doesn't or the pests keep you from making the combo, you're screwed. Hard.Decay will play nightfall BEFORE you play the GP in the doll. If he does it pretty soon, you can beat him. Medium.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 31, 2012, 03:47:23 am
Corrected.Decay- Hopefully Decay will get a nightfall and the pests will start damaging your doll. If it doesn't or the pests keep you from making the combo, you're screwed. Hard.Decay will play nightfall BEFORE you play the GP in the doll. If he does it pretty soon, you can beat him. Medium.
Post by: Mathematistic on January 26, 2013, 01:08:34 pm
Bump because the above mod is giving me some okay results in plat (not as much as pdials in terms of score/min and :electrum/min, but pdials gets boring...)
Post by: Zso_Zso on February 06, 2013, 03:26:06 pm
I have been playing with this the past couple of days, got some PVP2 wins as well as many FG ones. I even started collecting stats from FGs, so far TTW seems to be in 6-8 turn range. Yes there are a good number of skip-FGs, but that was heralded as an advantage for RoL/Hope in the old FGei farming efficiency statistics thread. The fact is, it is much faster than any other FG farmer not just because of the skips, but also due to the extreme short games. Win-rate is not too high -- currently 35.9% after 78 FG games, I will post full stats by Statmasta once I reach a reasonable number of games.
Post by: the dictator on February 06, 2013, 04:29:57 pm
(...)
Also, one FG that you won't win against is Neptune, with his congeal-->shockwave combo
Neptune is easy, he only uses his congeals/arctic squids/shockwaves on unprotected dolls. A doll in a time bubble (from basilisk blood) is only considered a target for the AI for 2 spells: Reverse Time and Mutation (and Fallen Druid/Eternity/Crusader with Eternity endowed). Just make sure you only play your doll with a basilisk blood the same turn and you should be fine. Without eclipse on the field, you dolls don't have an attack value, meaning they still aren't very likely to be targeted, but you can use additional dolls to lure out some spells, to clear up the opponents hand (to start casting Shards of Bravery). With Eclipse on the field an non-delayed doll becomes a 'threat' and will be targeted even more, especially useful against incarnates Parasites: put out a second, unprotected doll and start stacking some poison damage.
On the Shards of Bravery, I find them to be a huge improvement over the old precognitions: with a higher drawing potential, you can not only reduce your effective decksize, you can also collect MORE cards, which makes it easier to make the combo succesful. Of course, with only 2 dolls and 2 gravity pulls you will find yourself in situations where a card is buried deep in your deck, but that is just the price you pay for a speedy deck like this. I did do a slight modification though: I'm playing with 5 shards and a 3rd doll, simply because a hand full of shards and BB/Gravity Pull means you can't do anything. An additional doll increases the chances to get one early, meaning you can clear up your hand a bit (Doll + BB is hardly ever targeted like I said, and if it is, getting the combo out is pretty much impossible anyway, because in that case it would have just been targeted later). As for giving the opponent (I use it against false gods), a card advantage, playing your shards in a smart way can help to minimize his options. Easiest example: If you play a shard when your FG opponent has 6 cards in hand, than yes he will draw 2 cards, but you just clogged his hand, meaning he won't draw anything at the start of his turn. Thus the net effect isn't an increased amount of draws for the opponent, he just got his 2 cards half a turn earlier.
In general this would be my difficulty breakdown after a few days of playing this (and a few months or playing Shakar's a long time I ago):
Divine Glory - Playing without pendulums is slightly annoying sometimes, but the fact that a new weapon after animating the old one isn't delayed will mean you might need a bit more spare hitpoints.
Elidnis
Ferox - His rush potential can be pretty devastating, don't hesitate to use BB on an early dragon to buy some extra time.
Firefly Queen -
Incarnate - Turning his Parasites and Retroviri against him is always fun to do.
Jezebel - Just hope he doesn't get (too many) Gravity and or Air Nymphs. Your (stolen) pendulums have targetting priority for Nymphs Tears (over his own quantum towers and water pillars), which should help a lot.
Miracle
Neptune
Paradox
Elidnis
Ferox - His rush potential can be pretty devastating, don't hesitate to use BB on an early dragon to buy some extra time.
Firefly Queen -
Incarnate - Turning his Parasites and Retroviri against him is always fun to do.
Jezebel - Just hope he doesn't get (too many) Gravity and or Air Nymphs. Your (stolen) pendulums have targetting priority for Nymphs Tears (over his own quantum towers and water pillars), which should help a lot.
Miracle
Neptune
Paradox
Dream Catcher - Early Quanta denial can be a pain, especially a discord popping up before you can play your first supernova, apart from that you should be fine.
Eternal Phoenix
Hermes
Hecate - Copying his dolls, especially 14/8 vampiric dolls is sometimes more effective, and can make you last a long time (and than use a bit of BB to delay the original).
Morte
Rainbow - In case you don't draw any gravity pulls, you can try to bait one of his on an non-delayed doll, but that obviously won't work if he has more than 20 damage on the field (at least, it could make for a distraction to buy you a turn).
Serket
Eternal Phoenix
Hermes
Hecate - Copying his dolls, especially 14/8 vampiric dolls is sometimes more effective, and can make you last a long time (and than use a bit of BB to delay the original).
Morte
Rainbow - In case you don't draw any gravity pulls, you can try to bait one of his on an non-delayed doll, but that obviously won't work if he has more than 20 damage on the field (at least, it could make for a distraction to buy you a turn).
Serket
Akebono - Watch out for Chimera, he will play one as soon as the yellow damage indicator covers you full hit points bar. Put out a doll with BB and GP as meatshield, and use your Twin Universe to turn his hardest hitting critter against him (with a single BB to render to stop the creature from doing more harm).
Graviton - Again, use a doll just as meatshield, and turn one of his own (momentumed) creatures against him.
Gemini - Probably the hardest of these 4, momentum + TU spam can make for a huge burst. Either go with the normal tactic of doll + PU, or just use the doll as additional HP and beat him to dead with his own cards (but make sure you copy a momentumed creature, or his phase shields will make it useless).
Obliterator - Same as Graviton. He usually burrows his Shriekers as soon as he can, so if you want to copy one of those, do it right away. This also means his damage output can DROP between turns, which is always nice.
Graviton - Again, use a doll just as meatshield, and turn one of his own (momentumed) creatures against him.
Gemini - Probably the hardest of these 4, momentum + TU spam can make for a huge burst. Either go with the normal tactic of doll + PU, or just use the doll as additional HP and beat him to dead with his own cards (but make sure you copy a momentumed creature, or his phase shields will make it useless).
Obliterator - Same as Graviton. He usually burrows his Shriekers as soon as he can, so if you want to copy one of those, do it right away. This also means his damage output can DROP between turns, which is always nice.
Decay - His quanta denial can be a pain, and his damage output 0 for most of the match, or at least, the part of the match where you might be able to play a card.
Lionheart - Give it a try, but skip as soon as his Crusader/Eternity combo gets out of your control.
Octane - Unstable gasses in large amounts are just good game. I try to start the combo as early as possible (don't worry, you don't need many BB in hand right away, flown Eagle Eyes isn't a very rushy tactic), and if he plays enough Eagle Eyes before the 4th/5th unstable gas, congrats.
Osiris - Momentum and Reverse time are you main enemies here, luckily he doesn't have to much of either, and with a single momentum not everything is lost either, just make sure to start the combo with some spare hitpoints.
Scorpio - Physalia's, Pufferfishes and especially Deadly Poison all to ruin your day. Still doable if you start the combo early enough.
Lionheart - Give it a try, but skip as soon as his Crusader/Eternity combo gets out of your control.
Octane - Unstable gasses in large amounts are just good game. I try to start the combo as early as possible (don't worry, you don't need many BB in hand right away, flown Eagle Eyes isn't a very rushy tactic), and if he plays enough Eagle Eyes before the 4th/5th unstable gas, congrats.
Osiris - Momentum and Reverse time are you main enemies here, luckily he doesn't have to much of either, and with a single momentum not everything is lost either, just make sure to start the combo with some spare hitpoints.
Scorpio - Physalia's, Pufferfishes and especially Deadly Poison all to ruin your day. Still doable if you start the combo early enough.
Chaos Lord - Just too many Fallen Druids and Improved Mutations going on. If you want a challenge, but be warned, it all comes down to luck of the draw (his draw to be exact).
Dark Matter - Playing is hard when you can't collect your quanta.
Destiny - Too much card to disrupt your combo: Improved Mutations, Reverse Time and Fallen Druids are all very present in his deck
Seism - Reverse time is just too much of a hassle to get the combo out.
Dark Matter - Playing is hard when you can't collect your quanta.
Destiny - Too much card to disrupt your combo: Improved Mutations, Reverse Time and Fallen Druids are all very present in his deck
Seism - Reverse time is just too much of a hassle to get the combo out.
Post by: Zso_Zso on February 08, 2013, 01:23:46 pm
Optional additions, that can help to improve win-rate against certain FGs:
- mind-flayer good against momentum using FGs such as Akebono, Gemini, Graviton, and also against Chaos Lord
- purify good against poisoners, e.g. Morte, Scorpio, Serket
- holy light versatile helper, can heal yourself (poison/momentum) but also hurt voodoo for +10 damage before copy, which can help you win many times when the next round of attacks would kill it, but current damage is just short for win
- extra SoBr more pulling power is helpful if you add 2 of the above helper cards -- offsets the larger deck-size
| deck | Voodoo Bravery |
| players | Zso_Zso |
| version | 1.321 | win-rate | 40% | ||
| $ track ? | enabled | win-rate (n) | n.a. | ||
| games | 100 | Score/h | 549 | ||
| win-loss-(EM) | 40-60-(5) | Score/h (n) | n.a. | ||
| time (h:m:s) | 02:54:45 | FGei[c]* (http://elementsforum.co.cc/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 7329 | ||
| min/game | 01:45 | FGei[cn]* (http://elementsforum.co.cc/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | n.a. |
| score/h | FGei(c) | Statmasta™realtec | wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins |
| -161 -906 -36000 -36000 -36000 979 1987 183 1176 1180 583 -1062 475 -915 762 944 379 669 2111 -74 2075 2071 -36000 -5934 685 1429 500 -36000 711 | 4587 2674 -36000 -36000 -36000 14239 11217 3779 12270 9600 7922 -1062 6580 -915 6652 9810 8101 6791 12829 3287 14821 15104 -36000 -5934 7003 8270 5187 -36000 7343 | Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 1 1 1 4 2 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 1 3 1 4 1 2 4 2 1 | 3 3 1 4 1 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 3 1 3 1 3 1 2 2 | 3 4 1 2 1 2 4 3 | 1 1 1 1 1 |
The average TTW is not omputed by the Statmasta spreadsheet, but the typical TTW is 6-8, fastest I had was 4 turns, slowest 10. The deck wins or loses real fast within 10 turns, plus you have a 20% skip-rate. So it is an incredibly fast :electrum maker.
In comparison, the old efficiency study (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38236.0.html) has shown Fast draw ghostal having the highest FGei = 6170, so this deck now beats it! The average game time being well under 2 minutes, while it was 4 minutes for the ghostal, so its more than twice as fast.
The "Turbo Speed FG farmer" (a RoL/Hope variant) was the second highest FGei in the thread and the fastest average game-play with 02:46 average time, so this deck also beats that speed by a whole minute!
Ladies and Gentlemen: we have a new record breaker, this deck is the FASTEST FG farmer with the highest FGei !!!
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 08, 2013, 11:09:42 pm
Post by: Zso_Zso on February 09, 2013, 12:11:23 am
^ PD Sosac gets something like 10000 elec/hr. Instosis, too, before it got nerfed.
Do you have any actual statistics for that ?
I have not seen any. I have no problem with the Instosis claim, since it was pretty fast with high win-rate -- alas it is nerfed now, that's why I started looking for another solution. OTOH, PD-SoSac is extremely slow, often goes to 20 TTW, can't imagine that getting such high FGei.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 09, 2013, 02:04:04 am
Don't forget that PD SoSac gets 172 HP EM's quite often.^ PD Sosac gets something like 10000 elec/hr. Instosis, too, before it got nerfed.
Do you have any actual statistics for that ?
I have not seen any. I have no problem with the Instosis claim, since it was pretty fast with high win-rate -- alas it is nerfed now, that's why I started looking for another solution. OTOH, PD-SoSac is extremely slow, often goes to 20 TTW, can't imagine that getting such high FGei.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37412.0.html
(The stats there are w/o skips. PD SoSac wasn't hurt by the 1.32 update.)
Post by: Chapuz on February 09, 2013, 02:36:32 am
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 09, 2013, 03:08:09 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 09, 2013, 04:32:03 am
I've tested PD and yes, yes it was hurt by the update. It is often a LOT harder to pull out your SoD or SoSaC due to cards like Discord stopping you. Often you can get out a SoSaC after a few turns, but then Discord resets ur quanta so...On the other hand, there's far less mulligan screwup.
Post by: neuroleptics on February 09, 2013, 04:38:41 am
I've tested PD and yes, yes it was hurt by the update. It is often a LOT harder to pull out your SoD or SoSaC due to cards like Discord stopping you. Often you can get out a SoSaC after a few turns, but then Discord resets ur quanta so...On the other hand, there's far less mulligan screwup.
about that, i was grinding that with a mirror shield variant. Only incarnate, hecate, Ferox and 1 more ( healing- based) i can't win against.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 09, 2013, 04:44:30 am
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 09, 2013, 11:24:57 am
SosaC and Miracle are polar opposites? Miracle requires a lot of Light Quanta to give you a new life, SoSaC sucks the life out of Light Quanta. [not to mention any other quanta except death itself]
Post by: Faro on February 09, 2013, 12:22:24 pm
^
SosaC and Miracle are polar opposites? Miracle requires a lot of Light Quanta to give you a new life, SoSaC sucks the life out of Light Quanta. [not to mention any other quanta except death itself]
He's referring to the FG Miracle not the card...
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 09, 2013, 02:44:02 pm
Post by: siks on February 17, 2013, 10:25:44 am
I have been playing this deck for a few days now and I think it is the best FG farmer out there atm. + I have more fun playing it than I had playing intonsis. It works a lot better than the original version did, even before the gods got smarter :) - its just much rarer that you wait for a crucial card that just does not show up before you are dead.
I exchanged one Pendulum for a Precog - works well for me
Thanks
Post by: Chapuz on February 17, 2013, 01:25:44 pm
WoW!Only 4 pendulums? o.o do you use to start with at least one?
I have been playing this deck for a few days now and I think it is the best FG farmer out there atm. + I have more fun playing it than I had playing intonsis. It works a lot better than the original version did, even before the gods got smarter :) - its just much rarer that you wait for a crucial card that just does not show up before you are dead.
I exchanged one Pendulum for a Precog - works well for me
Thanks
I play it with 31 cards and an extra SoBr, because it's still a card advantage.
Zso_Zso: Do you get enough :aether with that build of 4 pillars?
Post by: Zso_Zso on February 17, 2013, 01:43:55 pm
Zso_Zso: Do you get enough :aether with that build of 4 pillars?
Yes I do, :aether quanta is rarely a problem. On the other hand, getting the 2nd nova to play the voodoo is a problem sometimes. In general, the problem is getting all the cards for the combo: 2xnova+voodoo+pull+BB. Most of the losses I have is a failure of getting one of these in time.
Post by: Chapuz on February 21, 2013, 12:30:36 am
EDIT: Akebono is definitlry NOT medium, it's fairly easy. 6 BBs and 2 GPs for target Akebono's creatures, come on!
(http://i.imgur.com/NXLBuUn.png)
Post by: CuCN on February 23, 2013, 09:03:45 am
| deck | Voodoo Bravery (6 SN) |
| player | CuCN |
| version | 1.321 |
| games | 224 |
| win-loss-(EM) | 89-135-(3) |
| time (h:m:s) | 04:40:20 |
| min/game | 01:15 |
| win-rate | 39.73% |
| normalized | 41.48% |
| FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626) | 7739 |
| FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626) | 8078 |
| wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins | |
| Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 3 4 3 4 4 3 3 4 3 2 3 3 5 5 2 9 1 5 2 5 9 3 4 | 6 1 2 3 2 3 4 6 3 3 12 2 5 2 2 6 8 4 2 2 4 8 4 2 3 7 | 8 10 11 | 1 1 1 |
Terrible draws seem to be very common: out of the 195 non-skips, there were 35 with no doll and 32 with no gravity force for the entire game (as well as 5 without supernovas and 8 without any pendulums).
On the other hand, I got a lot more cards from the spins than I would have expected (six cards out of nine wins from Rainbow and three out of two from Octane?!), which made the actual FGei for this sample 10,916 electrum/h. This probably isn't normal, but I can't complain.
Post by: Little Lord on February 23, 2013, 09:31:16 am
Post by: Chapuz on February 23, 2013, 02:04:04 pm
I get terrible results with this, only 5 wins out of 60 games played atm. draws are terrible, and FGs will hold back creatures to burst dmg your doll constantly. You alway are missing that 1 more BB / twin universe. games are fast though, about 7 turns to lose / quit game because its hopeless ;-).You know how to play it, right?
1) Wait till you can't resist any more hits (more or less)
2) doll + many BBs + GP
3) wait the FG damage the doll
4) TU the doll for "OTK". TU in a damaged doll generates a new damaged doll, dealing again the damage the doll has taken
Post by: CuCN on February 25, 2013, 08:15:06 am
| deck | Voodoo Bravery (5 SN) |
| player | CuCN |
| version | 1.321 |
| games | 162 |
| win-loss-(EM) | 76-86-(3) |
| time (h:m:s) | 03:44:35 |
| min/game | 01:23 |
| win-rate | 46.91% |
| normalized | 46.48% |
| FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626) | 8493 |
| FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626) | 8417 |
| wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins | |
| Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 3 2 4 3 7 2 1 2 2 4 2 2 6 2 4 7 1 5 1 2 2 5 3 4 | 4 5 3 2 2 3 2 1 3 6 1 1 2 2 1 3 3 1 4 4 4 5 2 3 | 8 3 8 | 1 1 1 |
Although reducing the number of SN does increase the chance of not drawing one, it is offset by the drawing power that the sixth shard provides, which makes it less likely to never draw a doll or a gravity force. (16/143 games with no gravity force, 13 with no doll, 8 with no SNs, 3 with no pendulums)
As with the testing I did on the other version, I seemed to get strangely high spin rates, resulting an actual value of 15,096 electrum/h.
Post by: Chapuz on February 25, 2013, 10:47:45 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 25, 2013, 11:29:41 pm
Post by: 2rider on February 26, 2013, 05:28:43 am
Post by: trashduke on April 21, 2013, 06:45:51 pm
I think the trick vs. Decay is to wait until you're getting damage before playing the GP... if you still have any quanta left. Tricky indeed.
Post by: Chapuz on April 21, 2013, 06:50:59 pm
I'm really digging this deck - very quick games and much more interesting that running PDials. I just played vs. Decay, and had a perfect draw - doll was out in the first turn but I GPed it right away - big mistake. Decay never played Eclipse or any damage dealing creatures, thereby decking me out.Yes, that's the strategy against Decay. Hoping he plays an early Eclipse.
I think the trick vs. Decay is to wait until you're getting damage before playing the GP... if you still have any quanta left. Tricky indeed.
Post by: CuCN on April 21, 2013, 06:52:21 pm
Post by: trashduke on April 27, 2013, 03:57:15 am
Decay only has Pests with Eclipse for damage that affects the doll, but he won't hold it even if you have a pulled doll. If he doesn't play it, that just means that he never drew it with 2 copies in 60 cards. If you have the combo set up already, don't use the shards.
Good to know. thanks.
Post by: Chapuz on May 04, 2013, 04:31:35 am
Post by: timetock on May 04, 2013, 10:11:15 am
This is the version I am currently using. Works like charm and is really, really fast!
you run the danger of decking out, don't you?
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 04, 2013, 09:07:05 pm
You stop drawing before you deck out. FG damage is quite fast, so games are likely to end very quickly, before you run out of cards.This is the version I am currently using. Works like charm and is really, really fast!
you run the danger of decking out, don't you?
Post by: Leodip on May 28, 2013, 04:03:55 pm
Post by: Chapuz on May 28, 2013, 04:12:16 pm
Nah, FGs damage is high and you don't play QPs if you see you are going to deck outThis is the version I am currently using. Works like charm and is really, really fast!
you run the danger of decking out, don't you?
@Chapuz, how would your version work unupped/partly-upped?I trided once and failed. I will try a different build and tell you later
Post by: CuCN on June 19, 2013, 09:45:30 am
Post by: rob77dp on June 20, 2013, 11:59:23 pm
Voodoo Bravery (PSNbow) by Zso_Zso +1 SoBr per Chapuz
I am 9W 9L plus 4 skips with it. Sure it is quick, but 9 of 22 matches so far (small sample, a bit yeah) end without the combo happening. Are there ways to modify this to get better draw consistency? I then moved to the Nova/Aether Tower version that has 3 dolls and 3 pulls as those were the most common piece missing from my draw with the above. That leads to this:
Voodoo Bravery (Nova/Tower) by eaglgenes101
I am 9W 14L plus 1 skip with this variation. With this the combo is pulled of most every match but I run into the problem of not enough Nova to power more BB's for losses. :'( I was hoping Voodoo Bravery would give me the speedy change-of-pace to my plodding but reliable (I thought PDials could have bad draws until I played today with Voodoo Bravery decks!) PDials SoSac deck. I suppose it is fun, but the drop-off in efficiency turns me off from it :(
Can someone with a bit more Voodoo Bravery experience show me that I'm just starting on a bad streak with the deck or should I expect that ratio of bad hands+draws? I feel I am following most all of the hints/tricks of the OP already.
Post by: CuCN on June 21, 2013, 05:17:23 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on September 27, 2013, 02:42:01 am
Post by: antiaverage on September 27, 2013, 12:15:17 pm
BM this topic UP!
As if everyone who grinds FG hasn't already put this in their tool belt
Post by: timetock on September 27, 2013, 12:45:44 pm
Played with it, done with it, forget it forever.
Post by: Chapuz on September 27, 2013, 04:11:16 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on October 03, 2013, 12:13:05 am
nah I don't like it.What happened?
Played with it, done with it, forget it forever.
I imagine that either you had a loss streak, which is entirely possible with this deck, our you weren't playing it optimally.
Post by: timetock on October 06, 2013, 08:07:24 am
nah I don't like it.What happened?
Played with it, done with it, forget it forever.
I imagine that either you had a loss streak, which is entirely possible with this deck, our you weren't playing it optimally.
ehhh now I think I'll come back to it - i missed it :-*
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 18, 2013, 11:07:17 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 19, 2013, 12:23:26 am
Could it be made better with more tu's therefore less damage he doll actually has to take? If an fg is so good, lets see if he can kill himself in a potential of 3 turns. (This to me would seem like the fastest ever on an fg and potential EM maybe?!)Aether quanta gets a bit strained when you get to 5 or 6 TU's. I'd like to hear what you come up with, though.
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 20, 2013, 01:44:20 am
Why thank you for your interest! Challenge accepted! With absolute best possible results you can kill an fg in 3 turns.Could it be made better with more tu's therefore less damage he doll actually has to take? If an fg is so good, lets see if he can kill himself in a potential of 3 turns. (This to me would seem like the fastest ever on an fg and potential EM maybe?!)Aether quanta gets a bit strained when you get to 5 or 6 TU's. I'd like to hear what you come up with, though.
With this version I found that 1 supernova is best during 6 hours of testing. Also this takes advantage of the mulligan so you have a nova in hand. You can also change the mark to entropy and use 4 supernovas 2 novas. But I like the extra card that makes bravery worth using.
There's an extra BB so that you can either have 1 less BB or TU to finish off an FG and for if an FG does too much damage against a doll.
Post by: Keeps on November 20, 2013, 02:23:41 am
4 Wins 6 Loses, 8.25 TTW, missing SoBr was very much missed, most losses were because no sobr or voodoo showed up in the first couple of draws, preventing the combo from kicking off. Found 0 use for more than 3 TUs
My opinion, stick with the original.
Dark Matter Win 7 turns
Lion Hart Win 6 turns(Started copies as soon eternity got air lift)
Seism Loss(Reverse Time)
Chaos Lord (Bad Hand, Voodoo never showed up)
Osiris Loss(Reverse Time)
Miracle Loss (Bad Hand, Voodoo never showed up)
Serket Win 8 turns by tradition 2 TU OTK
Decay Win 12 Turns extremely lucky, had to start TU early again to keep voodoos out, pulled pillar to get the 6th quanta
to tu right before death.
Neptune, Loss, very late voodoo showed up at just 17 HP remaining, only had 2 bloods, Neptune dropped two more dragons down and killed voodoo
Ferox, Loss, forced to start TUs early again before voodoo died, had ferox down to 2 hit points, it healed ofcourse, lossed waiting on new grave pull.
Post by: antiaverage on November 20, 2013, 03:16:57 am
Post by: Keeps on November 20, 2013, 03:19:47 am
Post by: TribalTrouble on November 20, 2013, 03:42:55 am
nah I don't like it.This is me. The RNG dependence required to play this deck just leaves me :'( when I play it. Then my friends use it and are all like ;D with their wins against the very FGs RNG made me lose against. :-\
Played with it, done with it, forget it forever.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 20, 2013, 05:13:49 am
The speed of this deck means the law of large numbers kicks in, which helps offset the luck.nah I don't like it.This is me. The RNG dependence required to play this deck just leaves me :'( when I play it. Then my friends use it and are all like ;D with their wins against the very FGs RNG made me lose against. :-\
Played with it, done with it, forget it forever.
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 21, 2013, 12:29:12 am
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 21, 2013, 12:31:59 am
Tried it BrandenC6's version for a 10 game run:And I don't mind, it was just created so you could POSSIBLY get faster games. I don't think it worked too well. I think I more so made it for pvp2. :/ I am grateful someone tested 10 games on it. But I would like to see the electrum per hour difference. See how much worse it is. Of course that's just being kind of greedy. Nonetheless, I am interested in that portion of it.
4 Wins 6 Loses, 8.25 TTW, missing SoBr was very much missed, most losses were because no sobr or voodoo showed up in the first couple of draws, preventing the combo from kicking off. Found 0 use for more than 3 TUs
My opinion, stick with the original.
Dark Matter Win 7 turns
Lion Hart Win 6 turns(Started copies as soon eternity got air lift)
Seism Loss(Reverse Time)
Chaos Lord (Bad Hand, Voodoo never showed up)
Osiris Loss(Reverse Time)
Miracle Loss (Bad Hand, Voodoo never showed up)
Serket Win 8 turns by tradition 2 TU OTK
Decay Win 12 Turns extremely lucky, had to start TU early again to keep voodoos out, pulled pillar to get the 6th quanta
to tu right before death.
Neptune, Loss, very late voodoo showed up at just 17 HP remaining, only had 2 bloods, Neptune dropped two more dragons down and killed voodoo
Ferox, Loss, forced to start TUs early again before voodoo died, had ferox down to 2 hit points, it healed ofcourse, lossed waiting on new grave pull.
Post by: Keeps on November 21, 2013, 02:00:58 am
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 21, 2013, 11:39:12 pm
I'll even do a full 260 game run, 10 of each God, but the maker of the deck will need to post stats of around a 100 game test themselves and see if they are getting over 9k+ /hr range. Other than that, pdials, the standard voodoo bravery, and brave malignant balls are your top 3 grinders right now with the standard voodoo bravery and brave malignant balls in the 9k range, you'll have to show that you can get a similar or better result, make a new thread, and then someone will come along like me, CuCN, or anyone else interested and do a verification test.Mind doing a varification test on brave dials http://elementscommunity.org/forum/rainbow-decks/amazing-%28quartets%29-ubiquitus-night-stalkers-%28by-me%29-and-pc-why-bother-by-2-ppl/msg1108390/#msg1108390 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/rainbow-decks/amazing-%28quartets%29-ubiquitus-night-stalkers-%28by-me%29-and-pc-why-bother-by-2-ppl/msg1108390/#msg1108390) Scroll up to see image. Its the 2nd deck posted there. Plz and thank you. P.S. My comp is slow so I can't accurately give an electrum per hour.
Post by: furkannnO on January 05, 2014, 09:42:19 pm
I run this and it seems more consistent than both Nova and the SN version
Post by: CrockettRocket on January 05, 2014, 10:10:37 pm
Post by: nolf on January 22, 2014, 11:50:48 am
Here are the somewhat disappointing stats I managed to record:
FGs faced: 84
Wins: 30
Cards won: 6!
Losses: 54 (incl. 4 skips)
Losses due to not drawing a needed combo card before death:
no doll: 15
no SN: 4
no GF: 4
no Pend: 3
Akebono win 1 loss 1
Chaos Lord win 1 loss 2
Dark Matter SKIP 1
Decay win 1 loss 2
Destiny SKIP 2
Divine Glory win 1 loss 1
Dream Catcher
Elidnis win 2 loss 1
Eternal Phoenix win 0 loss 1
Ferox win 1 loss 3
Fire Queen win 1 (EM!) loss 3
Gemini win 2 loss 1
Graviton
Hecate win 0 loss 2
Hermes win 2 loss 4
Incarnate win 2 loss 5
Jezebel win 2 loss 1
Lionheart win 0 loss 1
Miracle win 2 loss 3
Morte win 3 loss 2
Neptune win 0 loss 3
Obliterator win 4 loss 1
Octane win 0 loss 5
Osiris win 0 loss 3
Paradox win 2 loss 1
Rainbow win 2 loss 0
Scorpio win 0 loss 2
Seism SKIP 1
Serket win 1 loss 2
So, obviously my biggest disappointment is: 30 wins and still only 6 bloody cards won on the spins!
Apart from that, the deck is cool, another great idea. Also fast and easy to use (if you can do a bit of maths in your head). But it is pretty fragile. The classification in the opening post declares some gods as being easy - well, in reality none are easy, because there is always the chance you simply won't draw a much needed card. Looking at the 15 out of 80 games (minus the skips) where I didn't draw a doll I'd probably want to include a third one in the future. Though that would increase the chance of not drawing one of the other cards.
Mind you, those stats don't even tell the whole story. Even drawing the doll or gravity force at the last moment wouldn't have saved me in some games (due to momentum, poison, etc). If I had instead recorded "not drawing a doll/GF in time to win"... well, that would pretty much account for all the losses, I guess. Apart from: Reverse time, Decay never playing the eclipse, Chaos Lord with an early discord keeping entropy below 2 the whole time (happened once), too much poison, too much direct damage (siphon life, etc) and of course too many momentumed creatures. My best win rate was vs Obliterator, but the one loss was due to all his creatures getting momentum.
Before I used the SN version I played the nova version for 54 games. 16 wins, 38 losses (incl. 5 skips) - and including an unfortunate run of 17 games with only losses and 2 skips. Here I at least won 6 cards from just those 16 wins. However, a generally lower win rate (16/54 = 29.6%, 30/84 = 35.7%). Here I didn't record whether cards came up in time, from memory: In a sense it is more stable, you are more likely to get a doll out in time (you have 3 instead of 2 dolls in the deck). However, it is often lacking in just a bit of earth quanta to play enough BBs. I could imagine that a mixture of novas and supernovas might make for better results (see Branden's post, he used 1 SN and 5 novas).
Oh, and I'd classify Octane as a skip. It's difficult enough to win using Voodoo Bravery without all those unstable gases. All my losses were resounding.
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 22, 2014, 12:40:13 pm
Post by: Chapuz on January 22, 2014, 11:22:18 pm
I stand by my belief that Voodoo-PU damage is an absurd mechanic, but besides that this is a cracking deck. I wonder if you could bait Rewinds with a pansy :entropy / :aether creature. I suppose not.Or well, with a cloak
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 23, 2014, 12:42:56 am
I stand by my belief that Voodoo-PU damage is an absurd mechanic, but besides that this is a cracking deck. I wonder if you could bait Rewinds with a pansy :entropy / :aether creature. I suppose not.Or well, with a cloak
Thought of that but I don't imagine it'd give you long enough protection. I think even with Cloak your chances against Rewind/Mutate Gods would still be very slim.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on January 23, 2014, 12:50:31 am
I'm not sure it'd be the way to go with this deck, though, since VDB is much faster than the pre-bravery voodoo farmers were so it's probably better to just cycle through more quick wins than to worry about boosting win rate while sacrificing speed by stalling out for burst damage.
Post by: nolf on January 25, 2014, 09:11:58 am
Quote from: ColorlessGreen
I'm not sure it'd be the way to go with this deck, though, since VDB is much faster than the pre-bravery voodoo farmers were so it's probably better to just cycle through more quick wins than to worry about boosting win rate while sacrificing speed by stalling out for burst damage.
Yeah, a cloak wouldn't suit this deck. You don't have the quanta for it, it only helps with a few gods and the chances it will really help (you to win the game) aren't that high. You could probably increase the electrum/hour rate by auto quitting on more than the three gods recommended in the opening post. Like Lionheart, I had a game where the eternity took... an eternity (harhar) to come out, but even that didn't help and even stalling it didn't help because of his crusaders, wins are highly unlikely. The same goes for Osiris, not only does he have rewinds, he also has catapults and momentum and shards of focus which can screw you with black holes... Also, as I already wrote, Octane, nigh impossible to beat.
I currently play the SN version with one extra doll and one added nova, I subtracted one shard and one twin universe. This is a reaction to my findings, see an earlier post, that I too often didn't draw a doll in time. Now I have one more doll than gravity force, which is a bit of a waste. But it has two main advantages. For one, delaying the FGs weapon by playing only a doll and a BB, which buys more time. And being more easily able to make some room in my hand (by playing a doll/the dolls and a BB or two) to make better use of the shards. Minor detail: Simple dolls will be targeted with Eagle's Eye or drain life, damaging the FG just a bit more. Losing the 4th TU is acceptable, in most cases you only need two to finish the job. Less chance to copy an opponent's creature, but that's seldomly a winning strategy anyway.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 01, 2014, 08:27:55 pm
With pen and paper I recorded 84 games against FGs using the original supernova version. I may not have played every game perfectly, but I did my best and Voodoo Bravery isn't that complicated (if you can do simple math in your head). I never quit early, just in case (in fact, I even tried the skip gods).
Here are the somewhat disappointing stats I managed to record:
FGs faced: 84
Wins: 30
Cards won: 6!
Losses: 54 (incl. 4 skips)
Losses due to not drawing a needed combo card before death:
no doll: 15
no SN: 4
no GF: 4
no Pend: 3
Akebono win 1 loss 1
Chaos Lord win 1 loss 2
Dark Matter SKIP 1
Decay win 1 loss 2
Destiny SKIP 2
Divine Glory win 1 loss 1
Dream Catcher
Elidnis win 2 loss 1
Eternal Phoenix win 0 loss 1
Ferox win 1 loss 3
Fire Queen win 1 (EM!) loss 3
Gemini win 2 loss 1
Graviton
Hecate win 0 loss 2
Hermes win 2 loss 4
Incarnate win 2 loss 5
Jezebel win 2 loss 1
Lionheart win 0 loss 1
Miracle win 2 loss 3
Morte win 3 loss 2
Neptune win 0 loss 3
Obliterator win 4 loss 1
Octane win 0 loss 5
Osiris win 0 loss 3
Paradox win 2 loss 1
Rainbow win 2 loss 0
Scorpio win 0 loss 2
Seism SKIP 1
Serket win 1 loss 2
So, obviously my biggest disappointment is: 30 wins and still only 6 bloody cards won on the spins!
Apart from that, the deck is cool, another great idea. Also fast and easy to use (if you can do a bit of maths in your head). But it is pretty fragile. The classification in the opening post declares some gods as being easy - well, in reality none are easy, because there is always the chance you simply won't draw a much needed card. Looking at the 15 out of 80 games (minus the skips) where I didn't draw a doll I'd probably want to include a third one in the future. Though that would increase the chance of not drawing one of the other cards.
Mind you, those stats don't even tell the whole story. Even drawing the doll or gravity force at the last moment wouldn't have saved me in some games (due to momentum, poison, etc). If I had instead recorded "not drawing a doll/GF in time to win"... well, that would pretty much account for all the losses, I guess. Apart from: Reverse time, Decay never playing the eclipse, Chaos Lord with an early discord keeping entropy below 2 the whole time (happened once), too much poison, too much direct damage (siphon life, etc) and of course too many momentumed creatures. My best win rate was vs Obliterator, but the one loss was due to all his creatures getting momentum.
Before I used the SN version I played the nova version for 54 games. 16 wins, 38 losses (incl. 5 skips) - and including an unfortunate run of 17 games with only losses and 2 skips. Here I at least won 6 cards from just those 16 wins. However, a generally lower win rate (16/54 = 29.6%, 30/84 = 35.7%). Here I didn't record whether cards came up in time, from memory: In a sense it is more stable, you are more likely to get a doll out in time (you have 3 instead of 2 dolls in the deck). However, it is often lacking in just a bit of earth quanta to play enough BBs. I could imagine that a mixture of novas and supernovas might make for better results (see Branden's post, he used 1 SN and 5 novas).
Oh, and I'd classify Octane as a skip. It's difficult enough to win using Voodoo Bravery without all those unstable gases. All my losses were resounding.
I notice a few holes in your tests:
Neptune: You lost every game. You shouldn't have. Send the doll out only with BB on it for neptune.
You also lost quite a bit against gods with burst damage. With those gods you need more than mental arithmetic. You also need to guess how much the damage is going to hurt. Usually, you should send out the doll only if it's combo'd.
Post by: nolf on February 03, 2014, 09:59:59 am
However, maybe I should have made that clearer, I still think it's a great deck and with my slight modifications I'm still using it to face the FGs and am happy with the success rate. Have been far more successful on the spins, too. So, obviously, 84 games is a pretty small sample. I will say again that I think the UEI and SSPH would increase if you add to the skip list. Octane would be my first choice, I have faced him another 10-ish times and lost them all. I think I still haven't beaten Osiris, either.
Post by: the dictator on February 04, 2014, 07:16:46 am
That said, I noticed the same thing as you: it's very unstable, and hard to get the combo out. For that reason, in my personal version, I use 5 braveries and 3 dolls. I 'often' found myself with a hand filled with cards, including braveries, but no real desire to play them, because it would give me a high chance of locking my hard, and then ending having to discard a card. For that exact reason I included just an additional doll. Even if you don't have the full combo yet, against most gods you can safely play Doll + 1 BB, meaning you can easily clear your hand, even if you haven't draw all the cards necessary for the full combo: it also means you have more handspace, which means you can use your braveries easier, with less risk of having to discard.
That said, yes, you are right, easy doesn't mean cakewalk, 95%+ winrate, it means, nothing really tricky going on with this god, if the deck works like it should, and you use it correctly, you should be fine. I'm currently working on perfecting the procedures for the new false god study, but you are also right on the extending the skip list part, this is currently the order of PLAY priority produced by my spreadsheet (the most profitable, or rather, the one least profitable when being skipped, first, thus the ones best skipped last):
Divine Glory, Incarnate, Neptune, Jezebel, Obliterator, Akebono, Paradox, Serket, Decay, Miracle, Rainbow, Fire Queen, Scorpio, Gemini, Dream Catcher, Graviton ||| Eternal Phoenix, Elidnis, Morte, Hermes, Octane, Hecate, Lionheart, Osiris, Ferox, Chaos Lord, Dark Matter, Destiny, Seism.
As you can see, Seism, Destiny, Dark Matter and Chaos Lord are clear skips, but there are quite a few more (up to Eternal Phoenix), that also improve income when skipped, though I should add that playing EP, Elidnis, Morte, Hermes and Octane drops the UEI by less than 2% from the optimum, thus I would say you can play them without any notable effect on your UEI (and it's good for peoples mood/playing fun when the skip list isn't too long, another good reason to include such a threshold filter :)
Post by: nolf on February 04, 2014, 11:53:42 am
Quote from: the dictator
That said, I noticed the same thing as you: it's very unstable, and hard to get the combo out. For that reason, in my personal version, I use 5 braveries and 3 dolls. I 'often' found myself with a hand filled with cards, including braveries, but no real desire to play them, because it would give me a high chance of locking my hard, and then ending having to discard a card. For that exact reason I included just an additional doll. Even if you don't have the full combo yet, against most gods you can safely play Doll + 1 BB, meaning you can easily clear your hand, even if you haven't draw all the cards necessary for the full combo: it also means you have more handspace, which means you can use your braveries easier, with less risk of having to discard.
Thank you for confirming this, exactly what I found.
Quote
As you can see, Seism, Destiny, Dark Matter and Chaos Lord are clear skips, but there are quite a few more (up to Eternal Phoenix), that also improve income when skipped, though I should add that playing EP, Elidnis, Morte, Hermes and Octane drops the UEI by less than 2% from the optimum, thus I would say you can play them without any notable effect on your UEI (and it's good for peoples mood/playing fun when the skip list isn't too long, another good reason to include such a threshold filter :)
Oh yeah, I forgot Chaos Lord. Could be mentioned in the opening post with the advice on FGs, he will use his druids on a combo'd doll. Great list, thank you! I agree that it's nice to keep the skip list to a minimum. I'm not a hard core grinder anyway, I actually enjoy playing the game. :)
Edit: I still just played Chaos Lord and got an EM victory, second ever with this deck. The first doll he mutated turned into a 17 attack dragon with its own mutation power! Nice! And then he created a singularity and it became all too easy. And after that success, I also went ahead and beat Dark Matter, ha!
Post by: Tsmuji on February 04, 2014, 01:40:09 pm
I've used this deck pretty extensively (around 800 FG wins, so assuming the ~42%WR listed in the old FGei thread that means around 1,900 FG games, plus a fair few games in plat when I grew bored of the other plat grinders) and whilst I can understand the reasoning behind your list for the most part there's definitely some parts of the order I'd question. For the record the version I prefer is the nova version with 6 SoBr and 2 GForce. I've been observing the FG statistics threads for some time now and I appreciate your analysis is far more comprehensive than me going off memory but I figured asking can't hurt. Obviously I'm about to post a lot of strategies to certain gods that I feel aren't inherently obvious and in the least took me a lot of games to learn how to use correctly, for the sake of a comprehensive list I'll post basic ones too, I apologise if you have more experience with this than me and I come across as being somewhat condescending.
General Notes:
This one's more aimed at people who haven't played against FGs too often, I'd say it's worth making a note of grouping gods into 3 categories of those without weapons, those with weapons and those with both weapon and animates. If a god still has the potential to play a weapon I'll keep a BB in hand as long as possible to make sure its effects are nullified.
Saving BB for creatures with momentum can be a life saver, if you can afford to play 2 TUs your doll only needs 80 max HP best case scenario, if you can afford 3 then that drops to 60. Obviously these require the doll to have <13/10 HP left respectively so an extra BB on a doll to be safe is sometimes necessary, getting to used to the burst capabilities of each god is necessary to play this deck as well as possible.
Gods with the potential to instantly ruin your combo (I'm looking at you, rewind/mutation) can be beaten if you have a decent draw. The doll will not be targeted if you play it without BB, basically in inverse fashion to the doll targeting rules regarding ice bolt/siphon etc. If you can also manage to get out 2 dolls with BB the doll with higher HP is the one that will get targeted; this requires a near perfect draw but this has won me a few games I'd have otherwise lost, essentially having a bait doll with 80 HP and the GForce doll at 60 max HP and TUing it over and over at <10. I'll cover this in more depth for speciific gods lower down.
God by God
I apologise for some questionable yoda grammar at the start of some of these, I figured it'd be easier to read if I began each paragraph with the god's name.
Akebono is the 5th most profitable god to win against, granted at 6th in the list this isn't a long way from where it should be but considering Osiris and Octane are worth skipping I feel Akebono should be higher. If you wait for an overdriven creature to come out, ideally with momentum and TU it as often as you can you can reach some very fast, very reliable wins. Obviously Doll/GForce should be played to soak up as much damage as possible, then BBs should be saved as often as possible to deal with creatures that are momentum'd and overdriven after you've TU'd them. Once you have one big hitter on your side you can afford to delay all of the big hitters on Akebono's side and repeatedly TU your own. It's a rare occasion I find myself playing the normal strategy of the deck against Akebono now.
Chaos Lord's positioning I'd agree with, difficult win with not a lot of profit to be made from cards. Most people I've spoken to tend to have more issues than me, I don't skip this one although I wouldn't be overly surprised to see that it would be profitable if I did. For the most part provided it hasn't been buffed by Chaos Power or momentum a RoL will be targeted for mutation before a GForce doll will, I think there's a certain degree of randomness to this though. Saving BBs for use on druids is also a big help to improve winrate, but this is still a pretty nasty god.
Dark Matter as a skip I agree with, this one will never be profitable, momentum and BH is far too difficult.
Decay is a lot more likely to win against with the SN version I'd assume, the winrate and profit from extra cards isn't terrible for me but the length of each game is, with 2/60 eclipses in deck.
Destiny has too many counters to realistically win against often, I'd agree that's a skip.
Divine Glory is obviously the god of choice, biggest profit from card spins, the only possible issues are a hand clogged with too many of either MGs or animates but not both, and obviously Miracle has to be watched out for.
Dream Catcher's games I find to be pretty slow, combined with the occasional early BH coming out and the horrible spin rate I was surprised to see this so far above gods like EP, Ferox and Hermes.
Elidnis has pretty slow games and a nasty spin chance but pretty straightforward and reliable games, I was surprised to see this on the skip list.
Eternal Phoenix on the skip list seems wrong to me, very fast games, very nice spin chance, no weapon so you can afford to throw every BB out on a doll. I appreciate the damage can burst too fast for a mediocre draw to cope with dragons and fractal sometimes but I'd never consider this a skip, this is the one that motivated me to write this post.
Ferox I feel very similarly to EP about except without the awesome spin chance.
Fire Queen I'd agree with the placement of, very standard games with a decent WR and spin chance.
Gemini is another one to save BBs for the creatures, delaying the momentum'd spiders/massive dragons until the immortals come out improved my personal winrate drastically, having said all that I'd agree that it should be a little over the skip boundary.
Graviton is a surprise to me, having the deck of each god next to me as I write this and finding out there's only 3/6 unstoppables in the deck means I must have just had nasty luck here, again I'd probably agree with the placement though.
Hecate isn't the easiest win but again I'm surprised to see it on the skip list, there's a decent spin chance and a win rate I'd consider to be fairly good. It's a very situational tactic but if you haven't drawn a doll and you can afford to empty your hand slightly by throwing BB on opposing dolls you can bait a nightmare, I'm not entirely sure at what point the AI decides nightmare is worth playing though.
Hermes has a small amount of burst but the damage is predictable growth for the most part. The only issue I could see would be getting outrushed early, but the speed of these games is something that more than makes up for other negative factors for me. This is one of 2 gods I've managed a 4 turn win against, the other being Miracle. Once more, surprised to see on the skip list, especially next to Octane.
Incarnate I'd consider to be a relatively easy win, I'm just surprised it's so high up the list.
Jezebel I'd agree with, nice spin chance, easy wins for the most part unless gravy nymph comes out, although your towers getting stolen usually helps prevent that.
Post by: the dictator on February 04, 2014, 06:58:56 pm
(God by god is only half finished, I'll complete it when I have more time later today hopefully, feel free to ask questions about what I have so far in the meantime)
I've used this deck pretty extensively (around 800 FG wins, so assuming the ~42%WR listed in the old FGei thread that means around 1,900 FG games, plus a fair few games in plat when I grew bored of the other plat grinders) and whilst I can understand the reasoning behind your list for the most part there's definitely some parts of the order I'd question. For the record the version I prefer is the nova version with 6 SoBr and 2 GForce. I've been observing the FG statistics threads for some time now and I appreciate your analysis is far more comprehensive than me going off memory but I figured asking can't hurt. Obviously I'm about to post a lot of strategies to certain gods that I feel aren't inherently obvious and in the least took me a lot of games to learn how to use correctly, for the sake of a comprehensive list I'll post basic ones too, I apologise if you have more experience with this than me and I come across as being somewhat condescending.
General Notes:
This one's more aimed at people who haven't played against FGs too often, I'd say it's worth making a note of grouping gods into 3 categories of those without weapons, those with weapons and those with both weapon and animates. If a god still has the potential to play a weapon I'll keep a BB in hand as long as possible to make sure its effects are nullified.
Saving BB for creatures with momentum can be a life saver, if you can afford to play 2 TUs your doll only needs 80 max HP best case scenario, if you can afford 3 then that drops to 60. Obviously these require the doll to have <13/10 HP left respectively so an extra BB on a doll to be safe is sometimes necessary, getting to used to the burst capabilities of each god is necessary to play this deck as well as possible.
Gods with the potential to instantly ruin your combo (I'm looking at you, rewind/mutation) can be beaten if you have a decent draw. The doll will not be targeted if you play it without BB, basically in inverse fashion to the doll targeting rules regarding ice bolt/siphon etc. If you can also manage to get out 2 dolls with BB the doll with higher HP is the one that will get targeted; this requires a near perfect draw but this has won me a few games I'd have otherwise lost, essentially having a bait doll with 80 HP and the GForce doll at 60 max HP and TUing it over and over at <10. I'll cover this in more depth for speciific gods lower down.This part I didn't know, but considering these are the gods furthest down the skiplist, I doubt it will safe them, unlike for example, the alternate play strategy for akebono (and same strategy can occasionally get you wins against obliterator and gemini)
In general I think you (and most other people), are underestimating the effect of a skip. For example, the PDials official skiplist is 4 or 5 gods only 'because you can win against the others with a lucky enough draw', it turns out the PDials skiplist as generated by the current formulae (but based on only 200 games played, so probably not the most stable results), holds 13! gods for optimal UEI of which 2 are in the unsecure part. Comments on your individual observations are in the spoiler, because even a deck that can win against all gods with equally good odds, is still going to have a skiplist, because losses are practically free compared to the high card spin rates of divine glory (for example).
God by God
I apologise for some questionable yoda grammar at the start of some of these, I figured it'd be easier to read if I began each paragraph with the god's name.
Akebono is the 5th most profitable god to win against, granted at 6th in the list this isn't a long way from where it should be but considering Osiris and Octane are worth skipping I feel Akebono should be higher. If you wait for an overdriven creature to come out, ideally with momentum and TU it as often as you can you can reach some very fast, very reliable wins. Obviously Doll/GForce should be played to soak up as much damage as possible, then BBs should be saved as often as possible to deal with creatures that are momentum'd and overdriven after you've TU'd them. Once you have one big hitter on your side you can afford to delay all of the big hitters on Akebono's side and repeatedly TU your own. It's a rare occasion I find myself playing the normal strategy of the deck against Akebono now. This is indeed exactly how you win games against Akebono, and while it's simple once you figure it out, it does require you to get the right cards even earlier, making it more draw dependent than a normal VDB win (which already is quite draw dependent). This also might be the one god where my personal mod of -1 bravery, +1 is actively hurting the winrate, considering the dolls themselves aren't what you are going for here, while a 6th bravery might help you get those early TUs/BBs.
Chaos Lord's positioning I'd agree with, difficult win with not a lot of profit to be made from cards. Most people I've spoken to tend to have more issues than me, I don't skip this one although I wouldn't be overly surprised to see that it would be profitable if I did. For the most part provided it hasn't been buffed by Chaos Power or momentum a RoL will be targeted for mutation before a GForce doll will, I think there's a certain degree of randomness to this though. Saving BBs for use on druids is also a big help to improve winrate, but this is still a pretty nasty god. While Chaos Lord is certainly possible (in fact, I have won at least 1 game against each god), and certainly more winnable than dark matter/destiny/seism, according to my data, it's deck composition really hurts the card spin rate, which means the income per won game is lower than for most gods.
Dark Matter as a skip I agree with, this one will never be profitable, momentum and BH is far too difficult.
Decay is a lot more likely to win against with the SN version I'd assume, the winrate and profit from extra cards isn't terrible for me but the length of each game is, with 2/60 eclipses in deck.Yes, the supernovae really help here, assuming you can secure the 2 entropy needed to play them, they make it a lot harder for decay to lock your quanta, meaning you have more time to wait for eclipse to show up.
Destiny has too many counters to realistically win against often, I'd agree that's a skip.
Divine Glory is obviously the god of choice, biggest profit from card spins, the only possible issues are a hand clogged with too many of either MGs or animates but not both, and obviously Miracle has to be watched out for.
Dream Catcher's games I find to be pretty slow, combined with the occasional early BH coming out and the horrible spin rate I was surprised to see this so far above gods like EP, Ferox and Hermes.While the games can be a chore, his really slow setup means you are much more likely to recover after a bad start, while Ferox, EP and Hermes all can rush quite will, meaning you will be dead before that recovery
Elidnis has pretty slow games and a nasty spin chance but pretty straightforward and reliable games, I was surprised to see this on the skip list.Elidnis, as well as EP are techically on the skip list, but they are also closest to the non-skip part, so close infact that the UEI when including both Elidnis and EP into the play part drops the UEI from the theoretical optimum 12377 to 12343. This is exactly the reason I implemented the 2% from optimum threshold check, while they are technically on the harsh version of the skiplist, they are so awefully close to the optimum when included that I would leave them out for all purposes (and same goes for morte, hermes and octane).
Eternal Phoenix on the skip list seems wrong to me, very fast games, very nice spin chance, no weapon so you can afford to throw every BB out on a doll. I appreciate the damage can burst too fast for a mediocre draw to cope with dragons and fractal sometimes but I'd never consider this a skip, this is the one that motivated me to write this post.See Elidnis
Ferox I feel very similarly to EP about except without the awesome spin chance.While I was expecting Ferox to be on the lower part of the list, I wasn't expecting him to end up this low in the play priority, even below Osiris and Lionheart. On second thought though, I can see why: Because of a large deck, your spin chances are low, and while he doesn't have any cards that can disrupt the combo, he has the fastest rush of all the gods (might also be part of the reason for EPs lower-than-expected rating). This means you need a near perfect starting hand to stop him before he gets going, ESPECIALLY because the Leaf dragon/RoL portion of his deck means he can provide lots of quanta fast, meaning the braveries are accelerating his rush even more, instead of what they do for most gods: fill up their hands until they can finally manage to collect enough quanta. Because of this, he might not seem very 'hard', but it really hurts the overal winrate (I went 5-19). Sidenote: I think Ferox gave me my first ever 3 TTL, and although I haven't been able to duplicate it as a theoretical exercise, it went as I said: the he had a perfect quanta flow (rustler + AdrenaRoL, and a few towers), and my braveries provided him with a bunch of hard hitters, meaning he had 8 creatures out on his second turn, including 2 dragons.
Fire Queen I'd agree with the placement of, very standard games with a decent WR and spin chance.
Gemini is another one to save BBs for the creatures, delaying the momentum'd spiders/massive dragons until the immortals come out improved my personal winrate drastically, having said all that I'd agree that it should be a little over the skip boundary.
Graviton is a surprise to me, having the deck of each god next to me as I write this and finding out there's only 3/6 unstoppables in the deck means I must have just had nasty luck here, again I'd probably agree with the placement though.Graviton is higher than I expected, but this one (and gemini), require a lot of experience, you need to decide early if you are going with the normal strategy (dolls+BBs+GPull+TUs) or if you are going with the akebono alternate strategy, and then stick to that decision, and hope you picked correctly (mostly based on the amount of 'early' momentums in play: 10 or 1 means you can usually get away with the normal strategy, while more means you have to switch. I usually find Graviton harder to play against than Gemini (because you there is no point in TUing the fireeaters when they are still low on attack, meaning you want him to grow the fireeaters a few times before you TU+BB them, which does mean they are going to get more damage in before that).
Hecate isn't the easiest win but again I'm surprised to see it on the skip list, there's a decent spin chance and a win rate I'd consider to be fairly good. It's a very situational tactic but if you haven't drawn a doll and you can afford to empty your hand slightly by throwing BB on opposing dolls you can bait a nightmare, I'm not entirely sure at what point the AI decides nightmare is worth playing though.The rating on this one is likely hurt by the rush potential, which means you require an above average draw, and on top of that, she can and will still hurt you after you have your doll combo in place (through rage pot and liquid shadow on her dolls), meaning you need a larger spare HP buffer than you need for Ferox or Elidnis, which means that, while the rush is (generally) slower than Ferox, you need the doll at about the same time, to keep some spare hp's.
Hermes has a small amount of burst but the damage is predictable growth for the most part. The only issue I could see would be getting outrushed early, but the speed of these games is something that more than makes up for other negative factors for me. This is one of 2 gods I've managed a 4 turn win against, the other being Miracle. Once more, surprised to see on the skip list, especially next to Octane.Yes, Hermes is another one where the rush/burst hurts the winrate. That said, it is only on the theoretical skiplist, like EP and Elidnis, with a UEI of 12260 for DG-Hermes, it's still within 2% of the theoretical optimum based on those numbers.
Incarnate I'd consider to be a relatively easy win, I'm just surprised it's so high up the list.Incarnate also has a special trick to it (you can occasionally pull the same trick against Morte): the more dolls you get out, the more infection they will load up, especially after Incarnate has played Eclipse, giving the dolls an attack value, increasing their priority for infect. Because of this alternate damage method, you are less reliant on drawing your GPs, because you can load up damage through alternate methods, and considering you have only 2 in the deck, that means you can win games here were that you would have lost against other gods for because of late/no draw of GP. Out of my 28 wins (9 losses), 2 were without ever playing GPull, just by getting enough poison loaded on the dolls to kill him. My personal record is 16 poison on Incarnate himself, which means at least 32 damage per turn, and more once you factor on TU's (which multiply the damage done to a doll, AND multiply the effect of the infection count on that doll, though they won't reapply the poison status). That said, this tactic might be better suitable for my Supernova version with 3 dolls, more and earlier dolls means you can load up more poison.
Jezebel I'd agree with, nice spin chance, easy wins for the most part unless gravy nymph comes out, although your towers getting stolen usually helps prevent that.Yes, gravy nymph and air nymph are the biggest risks here, but having your pendulums stolen helps to detract him from that. This might be another one where the nova/tower version has an advantage: aether nymphs have a substantially higher attack value compared to entropy nymphs, I occasionally end up worried by too little damage output, though I don't I have ever really lost by deckout.
Post by: Tsmuji on February 04, 2014, 07:24:19 pm
Post by: the dictator on February 04, 2014, 07:38:28 pm
In case anyone wants to start taking stats, only data are going to be (per god): wins, losses, skips, EM's and TTW (aside from the obvious deckname and deckcode :)
Post by: nolf on February 05, 2014, 11:12:14 am
Quote from: the dictator
In general I think you (and most other people), are underestimating the effect of a skip. For example, the PDials official skiplist is 4 or 5 gods only 'because you can win against the others with a lucky enough draw', it turns out the PDials skiplist as generated by the current formulae (but based on only 200 games played, so probably not the most stable results), holds 13! gods for optimal UEI of which 2 are in the unsecure part.
I'm a sucker for stats and thus I agree, but as I said, I actually like playing the game, I don't so much care about UEI, I want to defeat those evil False Gods! :) So I always check my opening hand and if it looks promising I'll play a turn or two. I beat Dark Matter yesterday because I had a great draw and managed to get out a combo'd doll with 80 HP on the second turn and dials in play. And Dark Matter started with two archangels and no chargers. It was still damn close, but of course that made the victory only sweeter. Stats can't account for such things, obviously.
Quote
In case anyone wants to start taking stats...
I feel a little bad that I don't record more games, but I usually only find time for very short sessions, maybe ten quick games. I spent way more time writing in this thread than actually playing (but writing feels more like working :) ).
Quote from: Tsmuji
For the record the version I prefer is the nova version with 6 SoBr and 2 GForce.
Why don't you expand upon that a little more? I might go and take another look at it, but I remember quanta being really scarce, especially earth for the BBs and you need those desperately. Doesn't aether also become problematic against tower stealing/destroying gods?
Post by: Tsmuji on February 05, 2014, 05:36:20 pm
Towers getting stolen/destroyed is rarely a worry, between 6 novae and 4 towers the very worst case scenario is that you generate 13 aether quanta and that's extremely unlikely. Compounded with denial it could become problematic but the length of games with Decay means I skip anyway, and when an early BH messes you up 3 aether is the least of your worries.
Post by: Theunnamedone on May 20, 2014, 09:23:24 am
Looks pretty good, will try out once I get the SoBs.
Just a little 'guerilla' trick I've picked up- probably familiar to many
when against akebono, don't bother with the dolls at all. If you TU his strongest creatures and then BB them, you'll easily outdamage him with the overdrive and momentum'd dragons pounding on him.
Post by: nolf on July 27, 2014, 08:58:48 am
Using only SNs means you desperately need one of the 5 pendulums, otherwise you'll never get anywhere. Novas solve this problem somewhat, just one will already allow you to play a SoB, two and you can get the combo going without pendulum. And you can play 1 SN and 1 Nova in one turn without triggering a singularity. Also I'm pretty sure you want three dolls, in the little test I recorded not drawing a doll was the #1 problem. Blocking the FG's weapon with one doll + BB is very useful for a number of FGs, sometimes even just playing one doll to draw out a card like drain life or congeal if the FG's hand is clogged and to make use of your SoBs can help. 5 SoBs and 3 TUs seem like enough to me.
Post by: CrockettRocket on July 28, 2014, 01:07:45 am
Post by: Submachine on August 12, 2014, 06:49:24 pm
(http://imgur.com/FAUALGM.jpg)
Post by: rawrqwer on October 30, 2014, 12:12:21 pm
Many times, I lost because in order for your deck to get started, you needed to have two specific cards in the early game (Entropy Pendulum, Supernova).
So I decided to use a different approach for the deck.
Instead of having to need two cards in your early game, i wanted to have to rely only on one (for the price of "losing" one turn, if you have the luck of having both cards in your starting hand)
The Mark is now Entropy and there are 6 copies of Supernova. This makes losing to an overly bad starting hand almost impossible.
The maximum of 18 Aether quanta needed is provided by the SNs (6*2=12) and 4 Aether Towers.
I also included one Mirror Shield, so Octane became a cakewalk and many other FGs can't kill you through Gravity Pull with eg. Fire Lance.
With this deck, I managed to get an opt. winrate of 64.62% while skipping 11 FGs (295 games played)
Reverse Time: Seism, Osiris, Lionheart and Destiny
Mutation: Chaos Lord
Not enough Damage/Quanta: Decay
Black Hole: Dark Matter
Too much Damage/Momentum: Ferox, Gemini, Graviton and Hecate
I also tried a version of the deck which included an Electrocutor instead of the sixth SN (against Momentums/Vampires and a little increase of damage), but getting Gemini and Graviton off the skiplist couldn't come up with the overall reduction of consistency. (opt. winrate 58.10%, 251 games played, 9 FGs skipped)
I'll test another version with Electrocutor, 6 SN and maybe only 5 Basilisk Blood
Post by: dragtom on October 30, 2014, 12:17:25 pm
Post by: Zawadx on October 30, 2014, 12:20:57 pm
Also: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/rainbow-decks/voodoo-bravery-%28fg%29%28arena%29%28fast%29%28focused%29/
Higs or one the deck helpers will merge them soon.
Post by: willng3 on October 30, 2014, 12:44:25 pm
Post by: Chapuz on October 30, 2014, 02:34:18 pm
Post by: Zawadx on October 30, 2014, 02:47:48 pm
You realize that if you lose the coin toss you have to discard 1 card, right?
Unless he has Aether pillar in hand ::) Also, discarding isn't that hard with VDB; you usually have extra multiples of combo or lotsa SoB/SN in hand.
Post by: rawrqwer on October 30, 2014, 03:16:56 pm
TTW was not as important to me as a high winrate, so I always waited for the FG to bring me very low before I played Gravity Pull (unless I had no Mirror Shield, enough BB+TU in hand or it was Akebono :D)
So TTW could still fall a bit, if played faster than me ;D
Discarding sometimes is inevitable, my priority was:
1. double Voodoo Doll / double GP
2. triple or higher SN
3. double or higher BB
Discarding never is that much of a problem, as long as you don't discard bravery (=2 new cards), you should always be able to catch up when you draw the SN
Post by: TheArchduke on November 10, 2014, 12:48:21 am
Would someone be so kind as to explain thoroughly how to play this deck successfully? Like, early game: accumulate quanta, mid-game: play voodoo doll, BB and GP, TU a high-power opp creature, BB it, late game: profit? I don't know, I've not really made it to late game with this deck.
Against most FGs, there usually isn't a creature worth using a TU on and I can't channel enough damage through the dolls to kill my opponent. I'm sure I'm missing something...
Post by: MasN on November 10, 2014, 12:49:10 am
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 10, 2014, 12:50:44 am
Post by: CuCN on November 10, 2014, 12:52:44 am
Post by: TheArchduke on November 10, 2014, 12:54:42 am
This deck relies on the fact that using TU on a doll which has taken damage does the same amount of damage again. Generally TU shouldn't be used on the FG's creatures (there are some exceptions). Instead, it should be used on the doll after it has taken a large amount of damage, so that the extra damage kills the FG.
Well, I feel like an idiot...
But seriously, thanks for the clarification, I imagine I will have more success now...
Post by: MasN on November 10, 2014, 12:54:50 am
Post by: TheArchduke on November 10, 2014, 12:57:53 am
This deck relies on the fact that using TU on a doll which has taken damage does the same amount of damage again. Generally TU shouldn't be used on the FG's creatures (there are some exceptions). Instead, it should be used on the doll after it has taken a large amount of damage, so that the extra damage kills the FG.
Early game let the opponent do damage while you accumulate quanta, mid game play doll, bb, and gravity pull. Let the doll take as much damage as possible. late game:TU it. For every point of damage the doll took, each tu after will double the damage the doll took. Profit.
TU a damaged doll. Say it took 73 damage and you TU twice, if he didnt heal, you win.
You guys are ON IT tonight. Thanks for all the replies!
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 27, 2014, 07:21:11 am
It should be more consistent than other builds, though it might be a bit lean on the towers. I might try playing with Entropy Mark + SN + Aether Tower builds later.
Post by: Zawadx on December 27, 2014, 02:51:07 pm
Post by: Submachine on July 02, 2015, 05:33:52 pm
The extra copies make it easier to draw Gravity Force and Voodoo Doll. I discarded 2 SoBs, because 4 are still plenty and are still discard material sometimes. The -1 Basilisk Blood requires playing just a bit more cautiously, but the +1 Supernova that replaced it makes me able to have quanta earlier, which is often essential.
So now all combo parts have an almost equal number, meaning that none of them have too low chance of being in your starting hand (e.g if you only have 2 dolls in your deck, you will have a hard time drawing even one).
Oh, and didn't i mention that it can deal 440 damage in one turn? ;D
I'm still amazed nowadays how this deck is able to OTK with 440 HP while the opponent has only 8 damage output on his field.
(http://imgur.com/FAUALGM.jpg)
This deck was consistent for me since i first used it (that one unupped BB didn't matter much). I just love using it in Plat and i can only recommend it! :D For those who are new, i'm not sure if you ever met this deck. So here it is, advertising good farming decks. :P
Post by: Zawadx on July 03, 2015, 01:07:43 am
Post by: CrockettRocket on July 03, 2015, 01:31:23 am
Post by: Submachine on July 03, 2015, 05:59:01 pm
SoB is the lifeblood of this deck, as it allows you to pretty much never have a bad draw. 6 SoB without fire mark and 5 with it I consider pretty essential. I've had quanta problems tho, imo Entropy mark and Aether towers is the best solution to that. But Plat might have too much card quality for 6 SoB, as my experience is with FGsAs i said, i didn't really get that feeling, because even when i have only 4 SoBs, most of the time they are only discard material. I didn't test Aether Towers much, but with 6 SNs, I had less problems with not being able to play my first Voodoo Doll, plus it helps a lot in Plat, because there are lot of quanta denials lately. And even if my pendulums are quaked or destroyed early, i don't have problem with accumulation enough :aether quanta to play 2-3 TUs.
Post by: Lastmerlin on November 17, 2015, 10:42:51 pm
140 wins (56%), 110 losses (44%)
Apparently, I am clearly below the claimed 64% winrate that is claimed by several posters here. The false gods thread by dictator lists 58% winrate for the small skiplist (6 gods) which is much closer to my result. Any ideas where these differences come from?
I also tracked the specific reasons of loss and got:
no pendulum: 7 (6.4%)
no nova: 20 (18.2%)
no doll: 14 (12.7%)
no gravitiy pull: 21 (19%)
insufficient basilisk blood: 10 (9.1%)
insufficient TU: 7 (6.4%)
Other: 31 (28.2%)
Other contains all other reasons like too much damage, momentum, poison, damage burst kills your doll or whatever. The two categories BB/TU are a bit unsharp. because often a BB or a TU can do the job. These categories only count losses where the combo essentially fails due to the severe misdistribution of one card type in the deck. Any situation, where you can play the combo, but you are just too slow or lack a specific additional card (like the last BB) is noted in Other. What you can see is that the deck mainly really looses by shooting into its own foot. The number of possible RNG trolls is astonishing. The biggest culprits are nova and gravity pull. Therefore I added one of each to the deck:
Yes, that not exactly 30 cards anymore. I dont believe that exactly 30 cards is a must have - fine tuning the relative frequency of the cards might outweight the benefits of minimal deck size. If I must take something out, I would choose a SoB and a BB which leads to exactly the deck of Submaschine. But as I said, I am not really convinced about that.
I did a second run of 250 games and got:
144 wins (57.6), 106 losses (42.4%)
With following reasons for the losses:
no pendulum: 10 (9.4%)
no nova: 13 (12.3%)
no doll: 12 (11.3%)
no gravitiy pull: 21 (5.7%)
insufficient basilisk blood: 11 (10.4%)
insufficient TU: 10 (9.4%)
Other: 44 (41.5%)
Overall, I hoped for a more significant improvement. I was above 60% winrate almost all the time until an infuriating streak of rng troll losses during the last 50 games ruined it. In my opinion the additional gravity pull is a big improvement. It reduces this factor of loss greatly and allows much more versatile strategies, like copying a doll one turn earlier if you suspect a damage bust and pull the copy for the last bit of damage. Apart from that, this variation plays more pleasant, because you get the combo out more often. I am not completely sure about the additional nova. Of course, it apparently helped to reduce this reason of loss, but its still the leading cause (apart from Other) and dilutes all other cards while increasing the number of novas by only 20%.
Under the viewpoint of raw efficiency, it might be worse, because the reasons of loss are shifted towards the later components of the combo. That means that your lost games take more time. For maximum efficiency I believe that could even make a 5 pend, 5 nova version and skip any starting hand without pend and nova. My experience says, that games without pend, nova in the starting hand are mostly lost anyway. The chances to draw one in time are often overestimated and then you are sitting there for turns drawing and discarding...
Post by: Manuel on November 24, 2015, 01:44:48 am
i can't win a single battle (after 10 battles on the trainer)
is not so simple draw at least one :entropy pendulum in the first hand (or even after two draw); i don't know if u was really lucky to lost only the 6,4% of the match for "no pendulum" or if u posted the wrong version, or i am very unlucky
edit: win 2 in a row, and another lose against a god beat five minutes ago because i didn't draw a pendulum after 2 draw (and only one shard after six turns, maybe i am unlucky)
Post by: omegareaper7 on November 24, 2015, 07:35:27 pm
@LastmerlinWith 5 pendulums in a 32 card deck, your chances of not drawing any are extremely slim. It was just bad luck on your end.
i can't win a single battle (after 10 battles on the trainer)
is not so simple draw at least one :entropy pendulum in the first hand (or even after two draw); i don't know if u was really lucky to lost only the 6,4% of the match for "no pendulum" or if u posted the wrong version, or i am very unlucky
edit: win 2 in a row, and another lose against a god beat five minutes ago because i didn't draw a pendulum after 2 draw (and only one shard after six turns, maybe i am unlucky)
Post by: Higurashi on November 25, 2015, 04:27:03 am
If not that, it may just be statistical variance. You're going to need some 10k games before stat percentages start to become somewhat reliable.
Post by: Lastmerlin on November 25, 2015, 05:15:32 pm
An interesting remark: I consider my version having more improvement potential for experiences players, because share of "Other" is increased and there are more cases where you do something interesting. With three GF you can do things like copy your buffed doll early, GF a plain doll for one turn extra delay and then return to GF your copied doll, hopefully with one additional BB to somehow survive and get the damage in.
After all, this is exactly the reason why I post my stats and ideas here: Because I hope that some more experienced players give these modifications a try and report whether they are helpful.
@omegareaper: If my calculations are correct, the chance to have no pend in the first 7 cards is 26.38%. Due to automulligan, you need the bad luck twice, which yields 6.96%. My second batch is above this number because I just had bad luck - as I reported I had a real streak of such events. For a lot of games it should be even below this, because you can survive if you get the pend with your first three draws. For this tests, I played until I really lost - but for efficient play I suggest to give up if you start discarding non-redudant cards or your last SoBra.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 27, 2015, 04:53:33 am
Post by: Lastmerlin on November 27, 2015, 03:30:09 pm
Concerning the overall win rate: The big difference is between the FG farming thread (which reports 58%) and some early posts here (64%). I would really like to know if anybody can reproduce the 64% nowadays. I somewhat suspect, that changes with the last version of the game (AI modifications or whatever) changed winrate because the high win rate stats are always reported before the date 1.32 and the newer stats are always lower. This is a test completely independent of my proposed slight modification.
Post by: CuCN on November 27, 2015, 03:45:35 pm
Post by: nolf on November 30, 2015, 08:59:03 am
I still log in most days, just spin the Oracle and play three quick games vs FGs with the (mostly useless) creature the Oracle provided. You have to hand it to the deck, the win rate is good and it's just damn fast to play, over within a few turn. Having played thousands of games against FGs with Voodoo Bravery I think it's true experience helps, allowing you to win in unconventional ways at times.
Personally, I settled on this variant:
Post by: Lastmerlin on November 30, 2015, 05:05:28 pm
Then testing variants is the next step again.
So thanks to nolf - perhaps I will use this one for the next batch (If I get the time). Essentially you did, what I did not dare -taking something out for the additional GP and nova. If I see it correctly its one TU and von SoB. The really interesting thing is the nova split. Apparently this can help to get a faster start. The question is: How often does it do the trick. For me, getting the doll and the quanta to play it is the essentiall step, because this is point where you actually can start quickdrawing and use these shards for good. I will give it try.
Post by: nolf on November 30, 2015, 06:54:30 pm
Post by: Lastmerlin on January 03, 2016, 09:34:47 pm
@Lastmerlin: Nice to see you've been doing more testing and adding another variant.
I still log in most days, just spin the Oracle and play three quick games vs FGs with the (mostly useless) creature the Oracle provided. You have to hand it to the deck, the win rate is good and it's just damn fast to play, over within a few turn. Having played thousands of games against FGs with Voodoo Bravery I think it's true experience helps, allowing you to win in unconventional ways at times.
Personally, I settled on this variant:
I tried this variant by nolf for another 250 games. After this quite thorough testing, my results say: This is definitely no improvement.
I struggled all time to stay above 50% winrate and ultimately failed with final result 123 wins, 127 losses.
Specific reasons of loss:
no pendulum: 6 (4.7%)
insufficient nova: 28 (22.0%)
no doll: 12 (8.9%)
no gravity pull: 13 (10.2%)
insufficient basilisk blood: 7 (5.5%)
insufficient TU: 6 (4.7%)
Other: 55 (43.3%)
Observations: These unupped novas did really no good for me. The main issue is that they mess up the mulligan. Your starting hand really often has nova + supernova oder nova + pendulum and both often turn into a mess. The nova gives you a chance to draw once per SoB for another nova or SN, but this yields nothing surprisingly often. In the stats this is reflected by the increase in the nova category (which includes now just one nova and nothing else, because this easily kills you as well).
The deck is much sharper that the original. I often won or lost by a few HP on the FG or the doll. Here, you often have to gamble somewhere (like, will the FG put out at least X or at most Y damage?) and the lost gambles ramp up the loss rate. Issues are two things: First, the reduced quanta supply by the novas is really noticable. I often lost because I could not afford to play the fourth BB from 1 Nova+ 1 SN. Seconds, the fourth TU is really missing. Having less TU than you would like to have is one of the main reasons for these gambles.
The decks succeeds at providing more often a chance to do *something*. These novas often provide fuel to play around a bit, delay with a single BB or whatever. Hence it is more difficult to put lost games into one of the categories clearly. I should have marked much more games as lost due to TU, because lack of these often forces you to gamble.
Overall, this decks most probably more potential for improvement when played by someone very experienced with this specific variant because you learn which risks to take. However, I doubt it can get close to the winrates of the other versions.
Post by: CrockettRocket on January 04, 2016, 03:00:10 am
Post by: Lastmerlin on January 04, 2016, 01:13:27 pm
Hence, this data is nowhere completely worthless. I believe, that lets say 2500 games from 10 players provide a far better result than one sweep test as you proposed, because it also averages out factors like player experience and playstyle. Now the final trick is: Player play this sort of decks for lots of games anyway because the game is so grindy. All you need is to collect the data. Its an additional 5 seconds per game to make a list. The direct selection of the FG requires the use of a trainer, hence the games earn you nothing. This is at least 100 seconds *lost* per game. In other words: The sweep of 290 games in the trainer is more expensive in terms of additional time than the 2500 random games. If anyone is motivated to do that, go ahead. I will rather produce data as a side effect of gaining money. If a few other players do the same the results should be very useful.
Post by: Narukta on January 04, 2016, 07:50:10 pm
For example: I've seen Scorpio 15 times and I won 12 games, Lionheart 3 times ad I won 0 times, Jezebel 1 time and I won 1 time, Ferox 10 times and I won 3. The other gods are dead. So the winrate for each god is 12/15, 0/3, 1/1, 3/10 and you expect to meet each god in 1/4 of the all matches, so the probability to win is 1/4*(12/15+0/3+1/1+3/10)= 21/40, so the total winrate is 52,5%.
In this way you can both farm on your account and have more precise data.
Post by: nolf on January 09, 2016, 09:14:52 am
I tried this variant by nolf for another 250 games. After this quite thorough testing, my results say: This is definitely no improvement.
I struggled all time to stay above 50% winrate and ultimately failed with final result 123 wins, 127 losses.
Cheers for the test. Slightly disappointing. :) Your observations are definitely true. I sometimes win by unorthodox methods, using one or two or even all of those precious TUs to copy FG creatures... for me, variation is a plus, rather than going through the same motions every time (which becomes stale after a few thousand matches). When I feel like playing some more, I visit the arena with a mutation or shard of serendipity deck. Not very efficient, but different creatures to play with every time.
Post by: Keeps on January 30, 2016, 08:51:03 pm
Post by: Manuel on April 09, 2016, 08:00:33 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/sKJKWhB.png)
give me an award 8)
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 29, 2016, 07:04:01 pm
won against dark matter with a singularity from turn 3 in the field (i was thinking that i was using the nova mod)(http://i.imgur.com/sKJKWhB.png)give me an award 8)
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