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kirchj33

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Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278030#msg278030
« on: February 25, 2011, 12:05:56 am »
This is the charger based version of a deck jmdt and I have been working on.... I think this comes closer to getting it right.

Previously: Overgrow 'EM (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21670.msg296369#msg296369)

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Deck import code : [Select]
6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 745 745 745 74f 74f 74f 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ds 7gm 7jr 80g 8pl


I'll post stats and see how this one matches up, but it feels a little more solid on testing.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:25:35 pm by willng3 »

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278031#msg278031
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 12:12:04 am »
Looks a little heavy on the :gravity quanta usage (currently 24, optimal for 6 Pend, 6 SN is ~20).

Maybe -1 Black Hole, -1 Heal, +2 Explosion? Four healing cards should be more than enough for the deck, especially with the scrambling from Discord. Using Chargers sort of negates the problems of pesky shields, but there's still plenty of good stuff to explode :3
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kirchj33

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278155#msg278155
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 03:26:07 am »
Looks a little heavy on the :gravity quanta usage (currently 24, optimal for 6 Pend, 6 SN is ~20).

Maybe -1 Black Hole, -1 Heal, +2 Explosion? Four healing cards should be more than enough for the deck, especially with the scrambling from Discord. Using Chargers sort of negates the problems of pesky shields, but there's still plenty of good stuff to explode :3
Sure, I could see that.  The idea is to get something that EM's more than USEM however, so I'm not really willing to drop the Black Hole.  I don't think explosions are necessary with chargers.  I would like to maybe get more creatures and damage, but I'm getting some pretty rediculous stats so far when testing.  I think maybe -1 Charger +1 something else?  Graboid?  I thought maybe destroyer, but I think its pretty important to have stuff that holds up to CC temporarily since there are few creatures relatively while you wait for the shutdown to get setup.

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278229#msg278229
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 07:20:38 am »
Stats up:

RawRate
Games50
Win4896%
EM3978%
Avg. TTW7.375
Avg. Time78.9 secs
Total Time65.75 mins
Total Score1474
IG Score Eff1345.095/hr
True Score Eff.1207.372/hr
TTW
41
53
612
711
810
96
104
110
121
130
140
150
160
170
180
190
200
*Time stats include losses, except TTW of course

Yes, those stats are correct.  I have played it twice, once without detailed stats and gotten similar results.  That would currently put it just ahead of USEM in the efficiency study (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21530.msg294197#msg294197) for AI3 score farming.  I will wait to post these results in the study until someone else can retest and verify.

Offline TheForbiddenOracle

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278485#msg278485
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 06:39:23 pm »
Perhaps you should add another animate weapon? Just my thoughts...

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278488#msg278488
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 06:44:45 pm »
I have willng3 running some stats on this deck.  I'm getting terrible draws so maybe he'll have better luck with it.

Offline willng3

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278582#msg278582
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2011, 10:05:38 pm »
Okay, I'm going to plop these stats here for now:

Stats:
Games:   50
   
avg. Sec/Game:   74.520
Sec/Turn:   8.871428571
Clicks/Game:   12.980
Clicks/Turn:   1.545238095
Score/Min:   22.97906602
Electrum/Min:   25.79710145
   
Time overall (min.):   62.100
Wins:   48
Ems:   35
Losses:   2
Score:   1427
Electrum:   1602
EPG:  32.04
IG Score Eff:  1378.74/hr.
Efficiency Index:  3.91
Avg ttw:   8.292

ttw Details:   
ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   0
ttw 5:   1
ttw 6:   10
ttw 7:   10
ttw 8:   7
ttw 9:   7
ttw 10:   8
ttw 11:   3
ttw 12:   1
...
ttw 19:    1

Well, this is what I gathered.  The 19TTW came from a combination of not drawing any Pends during my first draw and facing the Pandemonium Voodoo Elder...which is designed to stall you into submission.  I had a second game where I drew no Pends, but I was killed before killing the AI so this was not included in the TTW.  With ~2.8% chance of not drawing Pends in my first hand at all, I wouldn't be surprised if this occurred again seeing as how the AI are designed to stall more so than win now.  Being the AI3 grinding addict I am, I managed to shave 3 minutes off of the total time spent, which consequently made my IG Score Eff higher.  I do not keep track of time spent outside of the game.  I have a few concerns about the deck build itself, but I think I'll continue for 150 more games before coming to a conclusive decision.
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kirchj33

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg278744#msg278744
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 05:02:34 am »
Okay, I'm going to plop these stats here for now:

Stats:
Games:   50
   
avg. Sec/Game:   74.520
Sec/Turn:   8.871428571
Clicks/Game:   12.980
Clicks/Turn:   1.545238095
Score/Min:   22.97906602
Electrum/Min:   25.79710145
   
Time overall (min.):   62.100
Wins:   48
Ems:   35
Losses:   2
Score:   1427
Electrum:   1602
EPG:  32.04
IG Score Eff:  1378.74/hr.
Efficiency Index:  3.91
Avg ttw:   8.292

ttw Details:   
ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   0
ttw 5:   1
ttw 6:   10
ttw 7:   10
ttw 8:   7
ttw 9:   7
ttw 10:   8
ttw 11:   3
ttw 12:   1
...
ttw 19:    1

Well, this is what I gathered.  The 19TTW came from a combination of not drawing any Pends during my first draw and facing the Pandemonium Voodoo Elder...which is designed to stall you into submission.  I had a second game where I drew no Pends, but I was killed before killing the AI so this was not included in the TTW.  With ~2.8% chance of not drawing Pends in my first hand at all, I wouldn't be surprised if this occurred again seeing as how the AI are designed to stall more so than win now.  Being the AI3 grinding addict I am, I managed to shave 3 minutes off of the total time spent, which consequently made my IG Score Eff higher.  I do not keep track of time spent outside of the game.  I have a few concerns about the deck build itself, but I think I'll continue for 150 more games before coming to a conclusive decision.
Thanks for testing.  I'll be interested to see how the rest goes... I feel like there's a pretty good "feel" learning curve with the black holes and I took my 50 game stats after testing about 100 games.  I'll be interested to see if yours improve or mine get worse.  I'd imagine there is a balance somewhere in between.

Anyways, to calculate TSE from score and time.  Take score/(time(minutes) * 60 + games * 9)/3600=(1427 score)/(4176/3600(seconds/hr))=1230.172 score/hr ---- The 9 seconds is an assumed number that estimates time between games.  I've been using it for all TSE calculations.

This would put your TADA efficiency above mine, but I have already stated privately I think you are a much faster player than I am for various reasons.  Your TTW is higher than mine and total EMs from 50 games were lower by 4, which is enough to push efficiency lower than USEM in comparison I believe.  Unless USEM has some ungodly long losses, which it might because it can heal itself for longer.  TADAs losses seem to be quicker when they happen, probably due to the PSN mechanic more than anything.

Kudos, and I look forward to more stats in combination with the efficiency study:

Finally, what decks suggestions were you thinking of?

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Re: Total Aggressive Domination Arrives (TADA) - AI3 EM PSN https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21706.msg280129#msg280129
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 03:10:44 am »
Regained internet access; time to load some stats.

Games:   200
   
avg. Sec/Game:   78.725
Sec/Turn:   9.202220923
Clicks/Game:   13.715
Clicks/Turn:   1.603156049
Score/Min:   21.58018419
Electrum/Min:   24.28580502
   
Time overall (min.):   262.417
Wins:   189
Ems:   142
Losses:   11
Score:   5663
Electrum:   6373
IG Score Efficiency:  1294.81/hr
Avg ttw:   8.275

ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   1
ttw 5:   8
ttw 6:   28
ttw 7:   35
ttw 8:   43
ttw 9:   32
ttw 10:   20
ttw 11:   11
ttw 12:   4
ttw 13:   2
ttw 14:   1
ttw 15:   1
ttw 16:   2
...
ttw 19:    1
Okay, so here are the issues I noticed while playing this deck.
1)  Too many support cards.  The damage potential here is severely reduced by the number of cards used to gain EMs/control the opponent.  For one, I felt the Animate Weapon is unnecessary as I either never drew a 2nd Discord to make it worth using or using it really didn't have a positive outcome on the duel itself (some instances actually gave the opponent quanta I didn't want them to receive, which was frustrating).  Heal-based Speedbows tend to use 4 cards to gain EMs.  Personally I would like to see a similar number here as well.
2)  Quanta production.  This mainly goes for Discord in general.  The odds of you drawing 1 Pendulum in your first hand are far greater than drawing 2 Pends in your first hand.  As such, it can take 3 turns before you get to play your first Discord, by which time the opponent has had sufficient time to set up their own quanta and can shrug off Discord's effects much more easily than before.  The only possible way to remedy this would be to change the Pends to Towers or change them from :entropy with a :gravity mark to :gravity with an :entropy mark.  Both of these have their drawbacks, unfortunately; though the build is overall more consistent, the potential for a fast launch is greatly reduced.  I tested several different mods for several hours today and could not create a build which stood out to me above all else; either the build does not exist and this is the best we can do, or I'm missing something, the latter of which is probably the case.
3)  No Pend draws.  These were the most damaging to this deck in general.  From memory I had 8 draws overall with 0 Pends in the starting hand.  With the exception of 2, each of these games received a loss with the remaining 6 receiving a very high TTW value for the game played.  The only way to solve this issue entirely would be to swap the Pends/Mark around, but as I said, this should cause the deck to be slower overall while granting it greater stability.
Aside from these changes I wanted to add more Precognitions specifically.  I find them especially useful for getting the cards you need, when you need them.  However, I'm still in a debate as to what other cards would work best.
Overall, the deck is fantastic at what it does, but I feel that the inconsistency that accompanies a Rainbow is what is limiting this deck's potential.
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