Post by: kaempfer13 on September 12, 2018, 09:44:40 pm
Weekly Tournament - September 16th - Matching Chromatics - Unupgraded
Tournament Organizers: kaempfer13, Vindilos, Submachine or Naii_the_Baf
| (http://i.imgur.com/RCXGMgc.jpg) | When? To find out your local time, check this link: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20180916T00
|
| (http://i.imgur.com/I88BdSC.jpg) | Where? Please enter the Tournament room (http://elementscommunity.org/chat/blab.php) at least 15 minutes before the tournament starts. Click "Rooms" in the top left to find it. |
| (http://i.imgur.com/eQ110uI.jpg) | Rules Please read the PvP Tournament rules (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6997.0.html) carefully before joining the tournament. Remember to also read the Special Rules listed below! |
| (http://i.imgur.com/LGqvNMY.jpg) | Prizes
In case of 16 or more players, tournament prizes will be increased. |
| (http://i.imgur.com/LH9pjw4.jpg) | Points for the World Championship
|
NOTE: You need just one presentable forum post to be allowed to join tournaments; you can post it here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/introduce-yourself/). If this will be your first tournament, a Tournament Organizer will test your knowledge about the rules. So please be present in tournament room 30 minutes before the tournament starts.
Special Rules
- At the start of the tournament, each player chooses one of the following groups and sends their choice to the host in a PM:
.- :time :gravity :fire
- :entropy :death :water
- :light :earth :darkness
- :air :aether :life
.
- All cards in your deck (and the mark of your deck) must be from your chosen group. This includes Pillars, Pendulums and Mark Cards.
- All decks must include the following:
- At least 6 nonzerocost (costly) cards from one element.
- At least 6 costly cards from the other 2 elements combined.
- Other cards, Dimensional Shield, Wings, Earthquake, Discord, Miracle and Shard of Gratitude are banned.
Tournament Organizers Note
If you think there is an overpowered card that ought to be banned, or you have some concerns about the tournament metagame, mechanics or other stuff, do NOT post it publicly in the comments or anywhere else on the Forums. Instead, send a private message to Tournament Organizers, who will privately discuss about it. Thanks for your cooperation.
(https://challonge.com/wmiy3rnn.svg)
Congratulations for the winners!
- Manuel (:entropy :death :water)
- Kalinuial (:light :earth :darkness)
- DANIEELA (:air :aether :life)
TOURNAMENTS Q&A
Q:?
A:.
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on September 12, 2018, 11:11:50 pm
Post by: kaempfer13 on September 12, 2018, 11:18:50 pm
Post by: Wyand on September 12, 2018, 11:26:07 pm
(https://i.gifer.com/6Nau.gif)
Post by: Submachine on September 13, 2018, 12:59:17 pm
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on September 13, 2018, 01:16:35 pm
Post by: kaempfer13 on September 13, 2018, 01:21:57 pm
we may start with semiupped tourneys starting the week after, but this one follows the official schedule
Post by: kaempfer13 on September 14, 2018, 11:21:43 am
I love how the bans line up under the diagonal.
(https://i.imgur.com/kk0YkUa.png)
This was not on purpose I swear, we had some back and forth, the groups should be reasonably balanced despite uneven bans.
Post by: Manuel on September 15, 2018, 01:14:25 am
Post by: Submachine on September 15, 2018, 04:59:10 am
just to be sure, i pick group 1, is this legal?Yes, that deck is legal.
Post by: DANIEELA on September 16, 2018, 12:18:39 am
DANIEELA 2
asdw152 0
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 12:19:18 am
InsignificantWeeaboo 1
Post by: Vindilos on September 16, 2018, 12:30:45 am
Wyand: 0
Post by: Kalinuial on September 16, 2018, 12:42:00 am
MasterWalks: 1
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 12:44:35 am
shockcannon 0
he forfeit after g1 desynch claiming to have win a really hard match up with an invalid screenshot
(https://i.imgur.com/vn6HuXF.png)
Post by: Vindilos on September 16, 2018, 01:00:13 am
Immortal Feud: 0
Not sure if I have to use the _ or a space here.
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 01:13:03 am
DANIEELA 1
ggs
Post by: Kalinuial on September 16, 2018, 01:42:02 am
Vindilos: 1
Post by: DANIEELA on September 16, 2018, 02:07:13 am
DANIEELA 2
Vindilos 0
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 02:23:26 am
Kalinuial 1
ggs
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on September 16, 2018, 04:05:48 am
vs. Manuel:
0-1:
Countered by Manuel's Afla-Nymph Deck. Poison + Adrenaline does a number on your staves. Also had one turn into a skeleton at full health.
1-1:
Drew all 4 SoFrees, let my dragons do the rest.
1-2:
One pillar start. Yeah.
0-1:
Countered by Manuel's Afla-Nymph Deck. Poison + Adrenaline does a number on your staves. Also had one turn into a skeleton at full health.
1-1:
Drew all 4 SoFrees, let my dragons do the rest.
1-2:
One pillar start. Yeah.
Group 4: I chose this group because it's one of the better sets of elements out of the other ones. 3 strong elements at the price of no PC was fairly worth it...for the one match I played anyways.
This probably would have been used a lot more if I got the chance too.
Might have used this one too. Probably would have avoided using it against MW since he has access to Fire Storm.
This was highly inconsistent during testing. Probably could have used it, but I decided against it.
Group 1: Didn't choose this group because, as much as I like Gravity, it's kind of slow. Also Time and Fire are hard to put together.
Works, but it's a bit slow.
Similar principle as above.
This idea was stolen from Fippe. Would probably have worked better if I had access to Aether quanta for this deck, but is still surprisingly fast.
Group 2: Water and Entropy make a hard duo to work with.
Not exactly the most speedy deck I made.
Can I say that I figured someone would run something similar to this deck?
It's a Shrodinger's Cat deck. Enough said.
Group 3: I just didn't feel like this set.
Fun Fact: This particular build can leave Adrenastaves at a stalemate, since both are able to heal off the damage done to each other.
It's your standard Earth-Dark domin, minus Devourers.
This could have been a solid deck to use, but I just didn't like the slower aspect of it.
This probably would have been used a lot more if I got the chance too.
Might have used this one too. Probably would have avoided using it against MW since he has access to Fire Storm.
Bootleg Creation of Life
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
This was highly inconsistent during testing. Probably could have used it, but I decided against it.
Group 1: Didn't choose this group because, as much as I like Gravity, it's kind of slow. Also Time and Fire are hard to put together.
Works, but it's a bit slow.
Similar principle as above.
This idea was stolen from Fippe. Would probably have worked better if I had access to Aether quanta for this deck, but is still surprisingly fast.
Group 2: Water and Entropy make a hard duo to work with.
Not exactly the most speedy deck I made.
TOs, you can make a NT deck.
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
Can I say that I figured someone would run something similar to this deck?
It's a Shrodinger's Cat deck. Enough said.
Group 3: I just didn't feel like this set.
Fun Fact: This particular build can leave Adrenastaves at a stalemate, since both are able to heal off the damage done to each other.
It's your standard Earth-Dark domin, minus Devourers.
This could have been a solid deck to use, but I just didn't like the slower aspect of it.
Post by: Submachine on September 16, 2018, 07:35:29 am
It doesn't change much, but this deck was illegal. It only has 5 cards from another element.1-1:
Post by: Wyand on September 16, 2018, 10:54:09 am
Quick tourney... Played against Vindilos.
0-1 Wyrm/Adren
Started with a pillar and a pend. Awful start, but this deck can recover from this. Except when your opponent draws
4 pillars (from ~6-8...) and plays 2 devs instantly. And a 3rd a turn later. Really frustrating.
4 pillars (from ~6-8...) and plays 2 devs instantly. And a 3rd a turn later. Really frustrating.
0-2 The Bad Deck Choice
Sort of a let's bomb the opponent deck. But this needs creatures. Vindilos hardly played anything, since he had a SoV deck.
One last comment about this match. Before the game Vindi was musing about whether to join the tourney or not. He felt that it wouldn't be fair
because of his TO knowledge. But still, he entered the competition. This really isn't my main issue. I lost - this still isn't the problem.
OK, I had bad luck and a bad deck choice, 0-2. But I really didn't understand the thing that happened after. Vindi changed his mind, and wanted to
forfeit the match to me because of his "TO knowledge". I declined the offer.
I would say there are 2 options for a TO: enter the tourney and play OR don't enter the tourney. Don't think about it publicly. If you need
reinforcement from the community than ask plainly, and that's it. Quite simple. What Vindi did was the worst thing - psychologically.
I don't know what were his intentions, but this is humiliating - that's why I declined his offer. I do not need such 'victories'.
Post by: immortal feud on September 16, 2018, 01:13:51 pm
crimsons precog splash
farenbolt dial splash
phoenixes fireeater splash
frog rush
ffq adrenastaves
PUgons
some sort of monolife/adrenastaves counter
dark domin BB splash
my first match was group3 vs group3 which i wasnt really prepared for so i tried to modify a deck to play against darkness
game1 loss vs what i assume was darm domin+ luci
won toss and got 2 voids protected early on but devourers delayed a shield which then got stolen and had no defense against a dragon
did not want to play my dark domin BB splash against darkness so speedbuilt a siphonary
game2 loss
lost against some sort of voids
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 04:21:26 pm
i used this version with something like - 1 shield/ + mummy or something, every time i twisted the death cards against players with life for countering adrenaline, against players with darkness -6 death cards for +6 poison (and maybe -1 death pend +1 water?)
i used this only in the 1-1 against dani and kali, that lonely queen saved my lil ass in final match
I would say there are 2 options for a TO: enter the tourney and play OR don't enter the tourney.
there is a third option, tros join and you fellow chaps stop complaining about bugger all
only in this tournament:
1 insignificant asked to see my deck after losing g1 for a reason unbeknownst to me, first time it happened to me (still used the same exact deck another 2 times)
2 shock tried to force a replay with an invalid screenshot after claiming to have won a very hard matchup
u all are great people, but it's the third time this week i say u should relax about this game
it's getting impossible have fun all together, there is always some sorta of tension when if u win = u are lucky u didn't deserve it, u lose = tos have advantage, x card used by your opponent should be banned, rules sucks
totally not a personal attack, i am the first to rage but at least i do it when things aren't fair for everyone, no matter if u are a vet or a new player
Post by: Kalinuial on September 16, 2018, 05:30:09 pm
Elements: :light :earth :darkness
Game 1 - loss
Had the right CC for NT, but not quite the earth quanta to play in time to stop the NT train. In retrospect, this deck is trying to do too much and is slow.
Game 2 - win
CC cards out in time to stop NT train. Sanctuaries negated poison damage. I think Manu used poison instead of Arsenic (probably to avoid steal).
Game 3 - loss
I used a reduced size deck of the following, which was previously used against Vindilos. I think actual deck was 35 cards. I also recall putting in +2 Dusk and +1 vampire stilleto, dropped morning star and went with 6x blessing. Also had a random NM. Manu got an early SoP and I thought I was done for. Managed to make it interesting by draining squids leaving one high HP grey nymph on board. Dusk did what Shockcannon claims it does, and kept me in it for a bit. In the end, Manu drew BW and NQ when needed, ending the potential comeback. Well done Manuel.
This is closer to what I used in G3.
Post by: DANIEELA on September 16, 2018, 07:11:56 pm
1-1
3-0
0-1
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on September 16, 2018, 08:18:34 pm
1 insignificant asked to see my deck after losing g1 for a reason unbeknownst to me, first time it happened to me (still used the same exact deck another 2 times)
To clarify, the reason I asked to see Manuel's deck was just to be sure that at least 6 Death cards were being used. There were, so I took the loss. (Though I'm not one to talk either, only 5 PUs in the one deck that gave me a win.)
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 09:11:43 pm
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on September 16, 2018, 09:16:34 pm
lol i totally lost the part of your second illegal deck with me losing that match
I never said anything about not wanting TOs to join. Other than that, mostly valid.
Post by: MyNameIsJoey on September 16, 2018, 09:20:15 pm
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 10:00:31 pm
Deck checks are part of the game.
requested by a player and made by the player with a to that is not playing the tournament only for checking decks?
the convo happened in private messages
Post by: Wyand on September 16, 2018, 10:22:53 pm
I would say there are 2 options for a TO: enter the tourney and play OR don't enter the tourney.
there is a third option, tros join and you fellow chaps stop complaining about bugger all
It is called feedback. The organizers will decide what do with it.
u all are great people, but it's the third time this week i say u should relax about this game
I think we already know well that we are far from the big boys. I play this game competitively since April, big surprise.
Quote
it's getting impossible have fun all together, there is always some sorta of tension when if u win = u are lucky u didn't deserve it, u lose = tos have advantage, x card used by your opponent should be banned, rules sucks
You are being superficial, and also distorting things. I won't bother to answer each issue, because I clearly know what have I done or haven't,
and don't want to waste my time any further.
Quote
totally not a personal attack, i am the first to rage but at least i do it when things aren't fair for everyone, no matter if u are a vet or a new player
Surprise, surprise! Every time I'm vocal I'm only able to refer to my case and hope that others won't have to suffer the same thing.
So we're on a common ground here.
Post by: Manuel on September 16, 2018, 10:48:39 pm
Quote
3.3 - Deck Legality Check
Before you start your match with your opponent, you can ask him to save all his used decks during the duels. If your opponent asks you to save your decks, you must accept it. After the match has ended, you can ask him to show either you or the Tournament Organizer his decks for a legality check. If you miss doing so and later it turns out that you lost against an illegal deck, you won't have the chance to claim the win any more.
(https://i.imgur.com/BFTjFwL.png)
Post by: kaempfer13 on September 16, 2018, 10:58:31 pm
Post by: worldwideweb3 on September 16, 2018, 11:00:42 pm
Post by: shockcannon on September 16, 2018, 11:36:23 pm
there is a third option, tros join and you fellow chaps stop complaining about bugger all
only in this tournament:
1 insignificant asked to see my deck after losing g1 for a reason unbeknownst to me, first time it happened to me (still used the same exact deck another 2 times)
2 shock tried to force a replay with an invalid screenshot after claiming to have won a very hard matchup
u all are great people, but it's the third time this week i say u should relax about this game
it's getting impossible have fun all together, there is always some sorta of tension when if u win = u are lucky u didn't deserve it, u lose = tos have advantage, x card used by your opponent should be banned, rules sucks
totally not a personal attack, i am the first to rage but at least i do it when things aren't fair for everyone, no matter if u are a vet or a new player
Ay mate, you're such a joker.
I pm'ed you with the screenshot of the win screen and saying sorry that it was the win screen because I forgot shard of void applies its ability before the attack phase. I had a black nymph and vampire stilleto out but you still had 9 health so I thought I had one more turn before I won and miscalculated. Regardless, the following two screenshots prove WITHOUT A DOUBT that I won our game due to the date, the time elapsed in game, and the fact that a 0 spin 0 electrum win can only be PvP Duel. The only reason that screenshot is considered an "invalid screenshot" is because some TO arbitrarily decided it would be a long time ago and that rule hasn't changed since. In fact the tournament rules don't even explicitly state that a screenshot of the victory screen is invalid, rather it's up to TO decision. However, both you and Naii thought it was considered outright invalid in the rules and as a result Naii left the decision up to you, which is also not in the rules.
As for winning "a very hard matchup," I will admit if our decks played each other 200 times mine would lose around 80-90% of the time. But given the draws we had that game I thought it was almost impossible for me to lose. I had a black nymph to shutdown your nymph's abilities and I had multiple drain life's in my hand. I could've screen-shotted every single turn but that's really not the point of these games, is it?
(https://i.imgur.com/LkmnmPm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UeaJBg6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VI4ltNh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6j0CgxG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UeaJBg6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VI4ltNh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6j0CgxG.png)
I say it again. You're such a joker, chap.
I wasn't going to make a post about this because it's inconsequential and doesn't affect anyone else. I agree with you that all this arguing really ruins the fun of these tournaments. I simply stated I was forfeiting at the time and I wished you good luck with your games and that was the end.
Post by: Manuel on September 17, 2018, 12:27:53 am
i'm not rude, i am using a language that isn't mine, is hard try to seem happy/gentle or any other emotive feeling
@shock
Quote
3.5 - Desync and Disconnect
If you and your opponent get disconnected in the middle of a game, you both have the opportunity to finish the game against your opponent's AI. If you are winning, create a print screen of the final turn and send it to the TO. If both players claim to have won, but only one of them has a picture of it, the one with the picture wins.
Print screens different from the final turn (for example, images from the victory screen) may not be accepted, and they will be evaluated case by case by the TOs.
no one will ever accept that screenshot, u can't see if is a desynch with bugs or a simply time out
i win against your ai, i have no idea on what happened in your side but i won (showing the screen), since the matchup was really hard for u i really don't see how u could have won even with ai not able to play well my deck (i had death pends to turn into nymphs but i have no idea how much of them i had in play, in my final screen i have 4 death nymphs), it was really strange your "winning so fast" with a sov deck, add this to your request to ban all the nymphs some weeks ago, how much are the chances that all this happen?
in the very impossible remote case u won, my ai replaced me before playing my nt on a pillar or drawing my other queens, so even with a valid screenshot probably i was able to claim the (deserved) win for the ai missplaying badly
there was no reason to left the tournament
i think is really necessary add examples of what is a last turn screenshot with an image of it and decide on this timestamp time thing in the official rules
Post by: shockcannon on September 17, 2018, 01:10:10 am
But whatever, I guess the lesson learned is screenshot every single turn when you disconnect and then abuse the TOs and ruling system.
Post by: ddevans96 on September 17, 2018, 01:13:04 am
in the very impossible remote case u won...
Sure, shockcannon's screenshots, according to the current tournament rules, are not enough to prove a win on his side and thus allow for a replay. I think that's fair.
But they're enough for a court of public opinion. Either you're saying he's lying, and ignoring the screenshots he has that do prove a win - not in the way tournament rules accept, but in the way a reasonable public might interpret it - or you're saying he's doctoring the screenshots, by editing them and/or creating new ones.
Regardless, this is getting dangerously close to accusation territory. If you're prepared for that, by all means, proceed - if not, speaking from experience, letting it go might be worth considering.
Post by: Manuel on September 17, 2018, 02:02:01 am
Quote
Black nymph removes all your abilities and you can't use abilities the turn a creature is played
if u do it before i play my queen yes, u can slow me down forcing me to wait for 2 nymphs but u never did it, u had it in your hand or u draw it after?
Quote
As for winning "a very hard matchup," I will admit if our decks played each other 200 times mine would lose around 80-90% of the time
Quote
when you disconnect and then abuse the TOs and ruling system
u can only choose one of these
ddevans i didn't make any accusation, i can't be sure on what happened on his side without a screen, if the ai really take my place never playing nymph's tears or queen he totally won for the ai not playing my deck correctly like i intended (ai will play nt ONLY on death pends, rather than in the water), like i said the part u cut
u are the first guy to say things like "fake screenshot" in this thread, all i am accusing is the ai not playing my deck
i really don't understand the part about public opinion and the rule thing, if u are saying the rules are outdated so they have a really small margin of sportmanship that should be showed by players, it's my deck that can't be played correctly by ai
Post by: ddevans96 on September 17, 2018, 03:40:01 am
i really don't understand the part about public opinion and the rule thing, if u are saying the rules are outdated so they have a really small margin of sportmanship that should be showed by players
No, the rules are fine. You should have to have in-game screenshots (personally, I think both timing out and winning turn) to be able to claim a win on your side - that way the game state can be analyzed and TOs can make a ruling if one side had a decisive advantage over the other. He didn't provide those, so a TO ruled that he lost. That's all fair, as far as I'm concerned.
But this became a public issue - and for those purposes, it's not about rules or sportsmanship. While shockcannon's screenshots fall outside the rules, any player checking the timestamps can tell he won on his side.
Which gets us to:
ddevans i didn't make any accusation
To say 'in the very impossible remote case u won...' after someone posts screenshots in an attempt to prove that they won is accusing them of lying. It doesn't matter what you wrote after that, that wording is inherently accusatory. I'm sure you didn't mean it, but that's how it is.
Quote
it's my deck that can't be played correctly by ai
Most decks can't be played correctly by AI. That's why the screenshot rules exist.
Anyways...TOs ruled in your favor and you won not only the match, but the tournament. Why did this need to become a public issue in the first place? It's really immature and disappointing to see from someone who represents a twelfth of the community now. Hold yourself to higher standards, because everyone else is.
Post by: Manuel on September 17, 2018, 04:05:52 am
Quote
Why did this need to become a public issue in the first place?
i'll pm u
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on September 17, 2018, 04:24:59 am
That the ai cannot properly NT water quanta is extremely frustrating. Your win screen screenshot fails to show how badly the ai may have misplayed.
Post by: shockcannon on September 17, 2018, 05:24:49 am
Post by: Submachine on September 17, 2018, 09:08:26 am
Players can ask for a legality check during the tournament. The check can be done either by the player or any available TO. However, it is the other player's decision whether to show it to the player or a TO. After analyzing the information from witnesses, I conclude that this rule was not broken.
We apologize if the wording was not clear and will do our best to clarify each rule.
Quote
3.3 - Deck Legality Check
Before you start your match with your opponent, you can ask him to save all his used decks during the duels. If your opponent asks you to save your decks, you must accept it. After the match has ended, you can ask him to show either you or the Tournament Organizer his decks for a legality check. If you miss doing so and later it turns out that you lost against an illegal deck, you won't have the chance to claim the win any more.
I would like to call attention to two specific parts from Rule 3.5.
Quote
3.5 - Desync and DisconnectIf a game is won against the AI, we must require proof to prevent other players abusing the system. We understand that losing a winning game because of a rule is uncomfortable, but we hope our players understand that we cannot allow the possibility of other players nullifying their opponent's valid victory and making the tournament longer after losing to the AI.
If you and your opponent get disconnected in the middle of a game, you both have the opportunity to finish the game against your opponent's AI. If you are winning, create a print screen of the final turn and send it to the TO. If both players claim to have won, but only one of them has a picture of it, the one with the picture wins.
Print screens different from the final turn (for example, images from the victory screen) may not be accepted, and they will be evaluated case by case by the TOs.
NOTE: If you don't know how to take a screenshot, click HERE.
When a desync error happens, the match gets restarted, unless it was very clear who was going to win. We are hoping that players are honest about this, but if there is a dispute, the TO will decide the outcome. Players are not allowed to change their decks or marks when a match gets restarted.
I would also like to point out that TOs will not rule a win in most cases, because the win must really be very clear. If there is even a slight chance that both players can win, the duel must be restarted, unless an agreement is made between the players.
Please keep all conversations civil and stick to the Forum Rules (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/rules/). Especially keep in mind the rule about flaming.
Quote
Flaming: Do not post any messages that harass, insult (name calling), belittle, threaten or mock other members. Debates are fine, but critique the opinion, not the person. Personal attacks are not permitted.I went back and modified posts that targeted specific people instead of their opinions.
If a dispute comes up, please do not start a public argument. Instead, notify a moderator who will privately handle the issue with all involved parties.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on September 17, 2018, 09:36:46 am
Post by: Submachine on September 17, 2018, 09:42:47 am