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PuppyChow

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg77410#msg77410
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 05:56:16 pm »
Quote
post tournament suggestions and feedback (as you are well aware).
Believe it or not, I hadn't even considered this topic due to how new it is. I was debating between posting a new topic in this section or in the forum suggestions section, and didn't even think about this topic. Also, I liked the idea of a poll :) .

But the ideas out there, and I guess this is a better place for it.


Anyway, you're right about it taking too long. I had thought it would add more games but only one more round. Instead, it doubles the number of rounds too :) . In other words, too long at the moment. It may be worth it to consider it in the future when we're pros at having them, though.

Round 1: 16 Matches
Round 2: 16 Matches
Round 3*: 8 Matches
Round 4: 8 Matches
Round 5*: 4 Matches
Round 6: 4 Matches
Round 7*: 2 Matches
Round 8: 2 Matches
Round 9*: 1 Match
Round 10: 1 Match
Round 11 (if loser in round 10 had 0 losses): 1 Match
* Denotes a losers-bracket-only round.

Quote
As for having to face a good player in round 1.. I have three things:
  • try to win
  • if you lose, you deserve to get kicked out of the tournament
  • don't lose[/l][/l]
Let's say you run a shrieker rush against a cremation deck game one. You lose because you have 4 dead quicksands sitting in your hand and they have lots of control to beat those shriekers up with. Oh well.

Then in game two, you don't draw a card inherent to your combo that you have six of in your deck. Until there's 13 cards left. AKA, you lose due to a horrid draw even though your deck was a perfect counter to theirs.

Now the first one I can accept; maybe they predicted you would use a shrieker rush. Game two, however, you lost due to sheer luck. So do you really "deserve" to be kicked out of the tournament? No, but life ain't fair, so that's alright. I don't mind it.

But we *could* make it more fair and bad-draw proof, all around (so a newb playing Rastafla in round 1, for instance, doesn't get the shaft). I was just trying to get that idea out there.[/list]

jheamay

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg78553#msg78553
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 05:50:39 am »
Hi, played my first tournament May 29 and placed 2nd. I have to say that the experience was great.

I would like to propose a simple tournament ranking and seeding system.

Ranking Points System:

For each round:
  • Match ends (2-0): winner +3 points / loser +1 point
  • Match ends (2-1): winner +3 points / loser +2 points
  • No Shows: -1 point
Tourney winners get:
  • Champion: +5 points
  • 1st Runner Up: +3 points
  • 2nd Runner Up: +2 points
  • 3rd Runner Up: +1 point
Points accumulate with every tournament.

Each week, the top 4 players with the most points become seeded players for the next tournament.

For the next tournament:
  • Previous Champion: Gets an automatic 1st round bye. (unless there are fewer than 8 total players)
  • Seeded players: Get an automatic 1st round bye. (unless there are fewer than 8 unseeded  players)
  • 1st round bye = +3 points
Some rationale:
  • You get at least a point for playing in a tournament. :)
  • The previous champion and seeded players don't get to face each other until round 3.
  • Encourages participation, if you don't play in the next tournament you're gonna be behind on points.
  • Easy to maintain, compute and verify.
  • Tourney winners don't get too much point bonuses. Which means you don't need to be a champion to be seeded and recognized as a strong player. If you miss a tourney you can also catch up really quick.
Also, it would be much better and fair if Eastern and Western Tournaments get separate points.

On a side note, i would like to see an unupped/no mark change tourney. :)

Corrum

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg78763#msg78763
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 02:47:05 pm »
How about using a Swiss pairing system in stead of the bracketed one.  You can set a fixed number of rounds, like 5 or 6, everyone gets to play in all of them and then the winner is determined by the win loss records.  Here is a link to it on the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss-system_tournament

Corrum

Scaredgirl

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg78770#msg78770
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 02:59:42 pm »
Thanks for ideas and feedback. Couple of things:

1. Any ideas that require more matches to be played will be instantly scrapped.
Like I explained earlier, we need to find a way to make the tournaments go faster, not slower. Once the ingame link arrives we shouldn't have any problems with getting that 32 vs. 32 every single time, and when we do, extra matches would mean a tournament lasts 4-5 hours which is way too long.

In fact, we might even get 64vs64 if we could find a sensible way of running it, like using two different chat rooms with winners from each room fighting each other in the end. We could also do a "sudden death", best-of-one" first round which would of course make the whole thing more luck based, but at least it would enable more players to join.

2. Nobody gets and advantage when doing the brackets.
Giving previous winners a free pass would not be fair at all. It would only widen the gap between "pro gamers" and casuals, which is also one of the things we are trying to avoid.

Belthazar666

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg78890#msg78890
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 06:04:35 pm »
Are the tournaments that are up and posted now place holders, or subject to change? As they are, I think they're too simple. Also, when was the last upped tourney? Aren't we about due for an upped?

Scaredgirl

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg78897#msg78897
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 06:11:02 pm »
Are the tournaments that are up and posted now place holders, or subject to change? As they are, I think they're too simple. Also, when was the last upped tourney? Aren't we about due for an upped?
In June we will have a bunch of relatively simple tournaments because we are expecting a lot of new casual players.

We have a 3 unupped, 1 upped rotation. Last tournament in June will be upped.

Offline Anothebrother

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg79026#msg79026
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2010, 08:15:41 pm »
it'd be cool if we could run some kind of week-long tournament simultaneously to the current ones so that people who cannot make it during those specific times can play at more random times during the week... however, there would be issues if players werent on at the same time...i wasnt around for trials, how'd those run? smoothly?

Offline Antagon

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg79086#msg79086
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2010, 09:47:16 pm »
it'd be cool if we could run some kind of week-long tournament simultaneously to the current ones so that people who cannot make it during those specific times can play at more random times during the week... however, there would be issues if players werent on at the same time...i wasnt around for trials, how'd those run? smoothly?

call it league ;)

Offline Anothebrother

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg79106#msg79106
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2010, 10:30:11 pm »
it'd be cool if we could run some kind of week-long tournament simultaneously to the current ones so that people who cannot make it during those specific times can play at more random times during the week... however, there would be issues if players werent on at the same time...i wasnt around for trials, how'd those run? smoothly?

call it league ;)
league doesnt have a tournament format and personally i dont like the current system at all as it's just total points and rewards those who play the most games... also, league doesnt have special rules (like mono w/different mark or no perms etc.) so no, it's different from the league... ;)

jheamay

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg79288#msg79288
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 03:30:46 am »
2. Nobody gets and advantage when doing the brackets.
Giving previous winners a free pass would not be fair at all. It would only widen the gap between "pro gamers" and casuals, which is also one of the things we are trying to avoid.
Any chance of implementing the tournament rankings if we eliminate the byes?

Offline plastiqe

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg79571#msg79571
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 03:44:15 pm »
Quote
Unupped, Fate Egg
..Everyone uses the same deck and all other decks are illegal!
I do not like this format at all. 
Having a pre-built deck takes away all the fun of designing decks.  Forcing everyone to use the same deck based on random cards means it'll be a tournament based purely on luck.  Also The Fate Egg deck in question requires very little skill.  May as well just pick a name out of a hat and give them 1st place

If we really had to do a tournament like that, the rules should be more like "Your deck must contain 6 Fate Eggs" - and that's it.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Tournament Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7055.msg79573#msg79573
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2010, 03:46:24 pm »
Quote
Unupped, Fate Egg
..Everyone uses the same deck and all other decks are illegal!
I do not like this format at all. 
Having a pre-built deck takes away all the fun of designing decks.  Forcing everyone to use the same deck based on random cards means it'll be a tournament based purely on luck.  Also The Fate Egg deck in question requires very little skill.  May as well just pick a name out of a hat and give them 1st place
Like I've said a million times already, it's not based luck, it's based on FATE.


2. Nobody gets and advantage when doing the brackets.
Giving previous winners a free pass would not be fair at all. It would only widen the gap between "pro gamers" and casuals, which is also one of the things we are trying to avoid.
Any chance of implementing the tournament rankings if we eliminate the byes?
We had those before and the plan was to restart it, however it might be too much work. Last system failed because organizers stopped updating it, and who can blame them? It's tedious and boring work on top of all the other things PvP Organizers have to do.

We need some kind of automated system that takes care of this thing.

 

anything
blarg: