European Union. Does it need to become more like the US?

[darkrobe]

What i mean by that is the following. The US used to be a collection of states, each with its own rules and currencies, etc. But over time it was necessary to tie together all of those seperate States into one country under the Banner of the USA. With a powerful federal government that controls monetary policy, regulation, Foreign policy, and that deals with disagreements between states.

The European union, in my opinion, is trying to be like the US without being the US. aka, having a common currency, but no common fiscal policy, etc. And we have seen that this has lead to a lot of problems lately (see greece, etc) Does the EU need to become more like the US, strengthen its central government and make each of its countries more like what the states are in the US? Or is there something else that the countries in the EU need to do?

[Belthus]

The thing is that US states were/are more alike than European states are. Europe has different languages and cultures, and people don't move around nearly as much as they do in the US. Even though political barriers to being a single people may be lower than ever, cultural barriers still exist. Given that situation, the Euro currency was likely to have problems sooner or later. Being able to devalue one's currency is an important tool that can help struggling countries to adjust their prices without deflation and austerity. It's also important to have a central bank that can and will back up a country's bonds with the printing press. That way, a default on government bonds is never an issue, only the value of the money one is getting from/for the bonds.

It's obvious that European leaders don't get it, so abandoning the Euro seems to me to be the most likely scenario. The Germans and French don't understand that the ECB must either stand behind the bonds of Italy and others or become extinct as one country after another jumps ship.

[darkrobe]

The idea that cultural barriers dont exist between states in the US is laughable, either in the past (see civil war for example), or currently (see south versus north or center of the country versus the coasts). Speech and dialects are also varied, although not to the same degree as Europe. But in that case you can look to china, which has many different languages, but were able to unite through a common writing system. Europeans today travel a lot between countries because of their excellent train system. Most know at least 2 languages, maybe more. I believe language to be a minor impediment, and cultural differences to be no impediment at all.

I find it extremely unlikely that the european union will dissolve because of problems with the Euro. The benefits gains from having a single currency and the unifying force that has on the countries is too strong.

I believe it is more likely that the strength of the group will begin to topple governments that dont want to "get with the program" so to speak. We have already begun to see that in countries like greece, where pressure from other EU countries is forcing governmental change.

[Thalas]

The idea that cultural barriers dont exist between states in the US is laughable, either in the past (see civil war for example), or currently (see south versus north or center of the country versus the coasts). Speech and dialects are also varied, although not to the same degree as Europe. But in that case you can look to china, which has many different languages, but were able to unite through a common writing system. Europeans today travel a lot between countries because of their excellent train system. Most know at least 2 languages, maybe more. I believe language to be a minor impediment, and cultural differences to be no impediment at all.

I find it extremely unlikely that the european union will dissolve because of problems with the Euro. The benefits gains from having a single currency and the unifying force that has on the countries is too strong.

I believe it is more likely that the strength of the group will begin to topple governments that dont want to "get with the program" so to speak. We have already begun to see that in countries like greece, where pressure from other EU countries is forcing governmental change.

Are you European?

[darkrobe]

no, i am an american citizen. im looking at the situation from an american point of view. Obviously that makes me biased towards believing that the EU will follow a similar trajectory to the US. But i could be wrong.

Edit: any statements regarding europe that i make are based on personal experiences. Either from study abroad or vacation. They should be taken as impressions rather than facts.

[Aves]

Each of the various American states has its own peculiarities, true. However, unlike the member-states of the European Union, none of the individual American States have never been truly independent nations unto themselves, (the Lone Star Republic being the sole exception to that). The US has regions that gradually change culturally  as you move in a direction. The States speak the same language, come from the same or relatively similar origins, have always had similar institutions of government, and are all relatively new institutions. You could hardly say the same between any two nations of Europe.

[darkrobe]

Then why does the european union exist in the first place? If the differences in culture are insurmountable, how did they come up with the idea of sharing a currency in the first place? of instituting a rudimentary central government to look over integration of different european systems?

Maybe there are local differences. But the institution of the Euro zone is evidence that europeans are already starting to see themselves as one group (whether they consciously admit it or not). A group like but seperate and apart from entities like the US and China.

[mega plini]

the European Union may not function well but to suggest it to become something as the US?
That's not ganna happen for the next 50 years!
The European union isn't a country! it's more like NATO but more sophisticated. The members have their own gouvernements and laws.
the barriers between the different members are somethimes as big as the barriers betwen Russia and the US.
That's why it's not gonna happen.

to awnser on the remark above: Europe has a good econmy but can't compete with the US or China, at least, not when all of the countries are alone. If you unite their econoical power, they are much stronger and so they have some more influence on the world economy. But to suggest that the Europeans see themselves as "Europeans" is ridiculus! the nationalistic parties (anti europe obvious) are scoring higher each election!
(for the record I do live in Europe)

[darkrobe]

Time scale is not the important thing here. If the EU becomes more like the US in 50 years, my points remain.

That idea that "the EU is not a country" is in my view equivalent to the view early american's had where people, for example, from virginia considered themselves "virginians" not "americans". Thats why its the United States of America and not just America.

The only reason the states in america arent more seperate is because it was necessary to band together to fight off foreign powers like the british. The economic reasons Europeans give as to why they need to band together despite their differences are equivalent in magnitude to the early states needing to fight off foreign powers.

its is a snowball effect.

We need the same currency to be able to compete -> we need similar regulations on goods -> we need a central government -> We need to make the central government more powerful to deal with dumb member states -> .....Oh wow, we turned into 1 country.

Edit: im not saying europeans see themselves as one country. only that they are beginning to act like one. and if they keep up the trend they may need to acknowledge that they are more like one country to the rest of the world than they think.

[mega plini]

In Europe, cultures and tradition go way back! traditions are being built there since 1000BC. This can't be trowed away that easily. The US' tradition/culture doesn't have that background.

[darkrobe]

My impression when i have visited, is that that statement can be made about each individual town in europe. one town may have very different traditions and culture, even dialect, than a town further down, and those differences may go back 1000s of years. Why then do countries exist in europe at all? why isnt it a collection of seperate towns?

[Belthus]

I find it extremely unlikely that the european union will dissolve because of problems with the Euro.

That's not what I predicted. I predicted that the Euro will fail. I am agnostic about the fate of the EU. The EU is workable, but a single currency is not. We may not have to wait long to find out.