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Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349385#msg349385
« on: June 11, 2011, 02:55:44 am »
Now, before questioning the title of my topic, this is not a religious debate. I am not talking about a religious faith, but faith in general. Faith in humanity, faith in a lover, faith in a god, what have you. This question has been chewing on me non-stop for a while now, and I've finally decided to do something about it. The question is, simply:

What is Faith?

I know I can Google it, or look it up on Dictionary.com (who uses the book these days, anyways?), but I want a more detailed answer. I want an answer that can be discussed, one that can be expanded upon as new questions come forth. Faith is usually defined as an unconditional belief in something, but is it really unconditional? Is there such thing as true faith? What is a belief? More questions appear with every new answer, and I want to know all I can.

Any ideas?

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349428#msg349428
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 05:34:37 am »
Here is my understanding of faith. It might not be fully developed but I'll toss it out here:

Faith is our choice to believe in something. When you are making a choice to believe whether something is true or false, you first take into account the evidence one way or another. However, humans can make mistakes, or have incomplete information, or be deceived, and as a result we can't be 100% certain that something is true. We have to make a "leap of faith" and decide that, even though it's possible we could be wrong, we're going to believe that the sky is blue (it's a veeeeery small leap of faith in that case).

Let's use "faith in a lover" as an example: Let's say your lover asks you to do something difficult, but can't tell you why. They have always acted in your best interests in the past, but because you can't see the future or read minds, you can't be perfectly sure that their intentions are good. If, despite this imperfect knowledge, you choose to believe that He or She is loving, then you have faith in them.

Even if a huge amount of evidence points to something being true, it could still be false. If you choose to believe it is true (rather than believing simply that it "has a high probability of being true") that is an example of faith.

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349431#msg349431
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2011, 05:49:03 am »
To me, faith is more or less equated with hope. I am an extremely logical, scientific, materialistic person, and scientific proof is pretty much required to convince me of anything. However, I am aware that there is no such thing as objective truth, and all our perceptions and observations may be false. Despite that, I choose to believe in and have faith in modern science, simply because I hope it is true. It is rather troublesome to adjust if everything I know turns out to be wrong.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349436#msg349436
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2011, 06:16:13 am »
Thank you both. As it turns out, my next question was brought up much sooner than I had expected.

What is Hope?

But back to the topic at hand. How does one show faith in something? How is faith measured? Do faith and loyalty share similar qualities, and if so, what are they? Is faith a human creation, or are other beings able to have faith in things as well?

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349456#msg349456
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2011, 06:58:35 am »
I think faith can be defined as belief in something for which there is no proof.

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349537#msg349537
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2011, 02:46:34 pm »
In addition to being an uncertain belief, faith is belief in a person's goodness. To say, "I have faith in you" expresses trust that the other person will act appropriately. Being faithful in marriage means upholding a promise (usually not to have sex with others). To say you "acted in good faith" means that you had good intentions, even if the outcome was bad.

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349561#msg349561
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2011, 03:56:48 pm »
Faith as I see it:
There are points where you stop using logic to build the case for a belief. At these points you let you preferences chose which option you will believe. This bridge created out of your preference for one reality over the others is  your faith that this is the right reality. The length of the bridge and the difficult of changing it to another option denotes the strength/reliance on faith. Faith permits us to have non tautological beliefs but that comes with downsides.
1) Faith can preempt Logic (you can believe contradictions that would be evident if you continued using logic)
2) Faith can be wrong
3) Faith can prevent investigation
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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349562#msg349562
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2011, 04:05:19 pm »
Faith can be a creative force as well.

Faith can create something where there was nothing before.  This applies both to the religious aspect and the having faith in someone part of it.

Religion would not be such an influential force in our world (for better or for worse) if people did not place their faith in God.  This creates and gives legitimacy to something which, without this faith, would not have such a profound impact on daily affairs.

Having faith in a person can create hope even a new life for them, where giving up on them could leave them with nothing.

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349566#msg349566
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2011, 04:08:47 pm »
Faith can be a creative force as well.
That would be belief. Faith is a cause of belief but not the only cause.
Belief in tautologies created Maths.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349571#msg349571
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2011, 04:28:52 pm »
Faith can be a creative force as well.
That would be belief. Faith is a cause of belief but not the only cause.
Belief in tautologies created Maths.
Not sure what you mean.  It isn't the belief in God that makes religion so influential.  It is Faith in Him.

It isn't believing in someone that gives them a second chance in life.  It is having faith that they will turn their life around

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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349595#msg349595
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2011, 05:21:41 pm »
Thank you both. As it turns out, my next question was brought up much sooner than I had expected.

What is Hope?

But back to the topic at hand. How does one show faith in something? How is faith measured? Do faith and loyalty share similar qualities, and if so, what are they? Is faith a human creation, or are other beings able to have faith in things as well?
I believe hope is a word that refers to a possibility that someone wants to happen.

I think...
...faith is 'shown' when you and others are aware of it, similar to something being there (somewhere) when you realize it's there.
...faith is measured by people's comparative opinions, meaning you only have 'this much' faith is someone else is said to have (had) less or more.
...faith and loyalty have different connotations here. It seems to me that faith is more of a dedication thing and loyalty is more of a consistency thing.
...as for the last question, since i'm not a non-human being, i don't know.
It is the greatest mystery of all...
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Re: Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27460.msg349596#msg349596
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2011, 05:22:06 pm »
Faith can be a creative force as well.
That would be belief. Faith is a cause of belief but not the only cause.
Belief in tautologies created Maths.
Not sure what you mean.  It isn't the belief in God that makes religion so influential.  It is Faith in Him.

It isn't believing in someone that gives them a second chance in life.  It is having faith that they will turn their life around
Faith is a cause for belief. It is the belief that is the creative part. Large numbers of people believing in the same deity gives Religion its power. Large number of people believing in Someone helps restores that person's self-esteem. Someone believing in electromagnetism allowed us to benefit from lots of technology.
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