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Offline deidmannTopic starter

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Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1028794#msg1028794
« on: January 05, 2013, 12:13:26 pm »
I just discovered this game. It is much like Elements... in space!
Some background information:
Released in Novermber 2012, this game is the third in the HD series.
It has 8 races with their own type of energy, like elements' quanta.
Is 100% free. No paying for better cards. They're earned instead.
Beware, the game is not easy. Ai sometimes cheats.

Discuss...

Note: I'm not advertising. Just talk about the game itself.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1028888#msg1028888
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 05:24:32 pm »
Hm... I've played Hidden Dimensions, Nebula Warriors, and Spectrum before. Xyth sounds interesting, maybe I'll post after a give it a try.

Offline deidmannTopic starter

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Re: Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1029845#msg1029845
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 01:26:24 pm »
Some more info.
There's an extra "race" called Artifact/Relic. It uses random energy and can be splashed anywhere.
There's a slot, a card trader and daily challenge:
You can spin the slot for free everyday, all other spins need 2 tokens each.
Every day you can get 5 cards, by trading 2 of your own for each, or buying with tokens.
Daily challenge is a specific battle every day, which gives you special rewards.
There is a laboratory, where you can sell cards for tokens or merge two race cards into one.
Every week there are new race wars going on, you pick a race and at the end get cards, more so if you win the war.
There are 479 cards in the game, so far.

Offline neuroleptics

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Re: Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1029846#msg1029846
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 01:53:41 pm »
The game is a little complicated to me. Tried it, need sometime to adjust myself to the game. Probably one of the hardest card games i've encountered so far
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Offline deidmannTopic starter

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Re: Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1029850#msg1029850
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 02:14:32 pm »
The game is a little complicated to me. Tried it, need sometime to adjust myself to the game. Probably one of the hardest card games i've encountered so far

Heh, told ya.
The game is 3 months old. There are no guides, faqs or walkthroughs. Just a manual explaining the basic stuff (ships,structures, etc.).
I'd recommend playing with the humans (red) for a while, because their card pool and strategy seem the most straightforward.
After 10 fights (winning or losing doesn't matter) you can pick your favorite race. Doing so gives 40-something cards from their color. I wouldn't do it right away, because you can't change it, but you can still build decks from whatever race you want.

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Re: Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1044150#msg1044150
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 02:46:29 pm »
Xyth is absolutely hooking and very interesting. Yeah... the same magic (even more magical IMO) when EtG got me. Although the pvp is quiet, the vast amount of strategies that work is amusing.
Elements could learn a lot from Xyth (while the inverse is true, too). Below are some strengths that I found in Xyth:

1. All (or most) races have their industrial support, energy structure, elite energy structure, fighter, destroyer, cruiser, offensive structure, warfare structure, defensive structure, repair action, electronic warfare action, damaging action, and resource action. What does this imply? Most races are complete in their arsenal of offense/defense. Monos/Duos do not suck. In fact they are on par with rainbows.

2. While all races are more or less complete, they still retain their own characteristics. For example, the Technomancers are masters of electronic warfare, the Ca'anians are good at draining energy as well as field control, and the Xyloxis buffs your base HP to pretty high levels. This reinforces the power of mono/duo decks as they can actually execute a certain strategy very well, and synergy is rewarded (while mostly only hard synergies such as spider+wing are rewarded in elements).

3. Ships attack the opponent's ship in front. That essentially makes field control available to any deck with clever playing. While this gives more tactical value to the game, it also rewards utility - frail but powerful attackers are almost useless. This, in turn, makes rush not the dominant strategy, as counter rushing can be easily achieved. On the other hand, every card can be both offensive attacker/ship destroyer, or defensive tanker to soak damage, depending on how you play it. Of course there are cards that are inclined to one, but imagine that in elements. A shrieker can be your last minute HP saver to block off some damage and give you an extra turn to win, if you play it correctly. Although rush decks are still dominant in quick fight mode at low AI levels (equivalent to bronze/AI3 in EtG, IMO), rushing is in general not a good strategy, because:

4. There are campaign missions and superpowered AIs in challenges. The lore adds a lot of flavour into the game, which is rare in any CCG I've played before. In fact, the sci-fi story by itself can hook me without the CCG. In the campaign, there are multiple difficulty levels to choose from. Harder ones drops better quality cards. But when I say hard, it is really a lot harder: The AI plays with highly upgraded cards and sometimes cheat cards, has double/triple of your base HP, and occasionally starts with (multiple) ships in play already. A rush simply wouldn't cut it. Instead, stall/rush hybrids, or stall-breakers as I call them, are encouraged - you need both offense and defense to work. For example, you may centre your strategy around a card that attack all opposing ships (Hydranought/Greater Grav Demon for those who have already played it), and build a wall of healers to keep it alive (Nanobot Carrier/Greater Nebular Demon) along with buff spells and weaken spells. Or, your deck could be a jamfest with cards that raises the stats of a random ally every turn, and you slowly hammer down opponent ships while they are immobilised. Shield and spear. Phalanx. For elements, the same applies to plat grinding/FG grinding, but the options are limited to hard/obvious synergy combos, and there is usually no space for the packing of utility cards (or they more or less make the winrate same). Cards are just too specific in elements. The point is, you don't need particular cards to build titan slayers, although some are better at titan slayer than others. This creates a scenario that:

5. All (or most) cards are usable. Midhitters with a little bit of utility, in elements' terms, immortal without the SoWs (midhitter; evades targetting 100%), eagle's eye (7 damage with ability to snipe), archangel (heals allies and good atk/def) etc would become the top cards (ofc, their equivalents) in Xyth. There are 479 cards in Xyth and it's hard to have used all of them, but the usage of each (or at least most) of them can be justified. In this, the amount of cards actually benefits the game, as contrasted in elements, where the addition of cards either creates a new archetype, adheres to a successful deck archetype, or is not used at all (I've pointed this out before).

6. The cards drop randomly and the upgrades has a whooping 4 level system, and the only currency, tokens, allow you to play a lucky spin only. Bam. Collection of cards become far away from "who can get trainer edition", but the acquisition of each and every card can give players the sense of satisfaction. This, however, does not hinder pvp too much since there is a pvp option that gives you access to all cards (and max copies usable in a deck). While screwing up bazaar in elements is unwise, being a collector in elements isn't fun. Yeah, not even rares are rare. It's not just about accessibility of cards; it is the satisfaction of earning a card. As you need certain copies of cards (you start with a lot of cards, but most come in 2 copies, while elites come in 1 copy. Some energy structures doubled.) to materialise the blueprint in your mind and win to obtain more cards (old spice: you need it, to get it), not only a collector, but a deck builder could also get the same satisfaction in earning cards (elements analogue: OMG finally earned by 4th upped emerald pillar! Finally can try life rush! Of course it's nothing like this. You have to play to understand.). There are also guaranteed rewards in challenge/campaign, but the chance of dropping diminishes with repeated plays, making specific cards semi-non-grindable. Of course you can rush quick fight to earn random cards at a good rate (0.5card/match), but similar/better rate can be obtained by playing campaigns and building decks to slay challenges. So... yeah, the card itself becomes interesting to earn.

7. Oh right. One thing I forgot to mention about campaign/wars. You have to do them with at least 50% cards of their race in the deck. One pdials cannot slice through everything. I see this done in wars, but it is a noteworthy mechanic that could expand on asynchronous pvp. Also, war is a kind of asynch pvp in Xyth, in addition to the freedom of playing player-generated campaigns/challenges. The concept of asynch pvp can be expanded furthe as arena in elements is quite a success.

It is not necessary for elements to copy everything about Xyth, but learning from other games doesn't hurt, right? After all, all humans grow up and learn by mimicking adults, so I see no fault in borrowing some good ideas from another game, and no fault in suggesting it either. Of course you can complain about Xyth and how it underperformed compared to elements (yes, there are some major flaws), but defending the status quo instead of looking forward feels... too conservative. The arrow of time points forward, and the same natural selection happens on games (entropic imagery lol). Not all of these strengths are borrow-able, too, but some are worth pondering.

So... yeah. Thus ends my speech.
Surprised that I did not rant? Oh come on. My complains might look overly focused on the "fault" part, because only by knowing the fault, improvements can be made...
But for the mean time, I won't play a lot of elements. Maybe until I get bored about Xyth? By then I might have some feedback about how it becomes boring and how should EtG prevent it, if I haven't quitted EtG community yet...

Edit: One point I forgot to mention.
8. Card abilities can be on play, passive, or active. Most remarkably, the on play abilities opens a lot of strategy. For example, you can debuff a ship for a bit when you play a particular ship. Or, you could instantly get some HP while you deploy an energy structure. This makes cards multi-faceted - there are multiple uses on a single card. This makes the game much, much richer in the aspect of strategy. You need to know how to play a deck, not just how to construct a deck. While this is present in any card game, it is further amplified in Xyth. Stuff that rewards skill makes gameplay much more satisfactory for both newbie and hardcore players, respectively, the happiness in acquiring a new skill, and the happiness in using a strategy to win (See: Extra Credits on Counter Play, search it on youtube).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 03:04:45 pm by Mathematistic »
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

Offline Zso_Zso

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Re: Hidden Dimensions: Xyth https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45676.msg1065465#msg1065465
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 05:24:40 pm »
You guys made me waste a lot of time I could have devoted to Elements!  :P

Indeed, HD Xyth is a great game with a whole lot of strategic options. I found based on this thread and have been playing regularly. I'm now on 111/114 achievements, 6 more weeks to get the War-related ones to complete, then I just need to find 5 more Mythical creatures to complete it all (1 more is a meta-achievement for completing all others).

The pity is that PVP seems dead -- I could never find a game and there is very little discussion on its forum too, so seems like a huge potential being wasted due to lack of community / not enough people playing it.
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