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News and Announcements => Patch Notes and Development News => Topic started by: zanzarino on March 11, 2012, 06:21:49 am

Title: The trial
Post by: zanzarino on March 11, 2012, 06:21:49 am
(http://www.elementsthegame.com/newmarks.jpg)

I am starting to plan what will come after the shards are done and balanced and after as many bugs as possible are removed. The best idea that I have at the moment is the following and I'd like to share it with the community:

A new repeatable quest line called, for lack of a better name: "The trial". It consists of a series of battles against new and particularly challenging non-random opponents; "non-random" means that the player will have to adjust his/her deck to defeat a specific opponent. The trial will probably exist in "normal" and "hard" mode, for the veterans.

Completing the trial will grant access to a ritual that will improve your mark giving it a soft counter effect against a specific card.
Every time your opponent plays that specific card your mark will generate 5 extra quanta and heal you for 5 hp. (6/6 if you completed the trial in hard mode).

Do you particularly hate a specific card? That card that always ruins you deck? Now you have the chance to further customize your deck and make less unfair!

Stay tuned for more.

Will mark abilities be active in PvP?
I would say yes, the new marks will work as a dynamic way to fine-balance the metagame: since OP cards will be more frequently targeted by mark abilities those cards should lose part of their power.

If they are active in PvP, it would further increase the gap between veterans and newbies.
Completing the trial in normal mode is going to be quite easy even for a new player and it will take a few hours. Completing it in "hard" mode not so easy, even for a veteran.

will you have to do the quest line each time you want to change your mark's counter thing?
You'll have to repeat the trial if you want to target a new card, but the mark counter ability is applied to all the marks (all 12 elements).

May I suggest that this be unable to apply to pillars/pendulums at a minimum, and perhaps novas as well?  It seems too powerful if one could choose, say, quantum pillars.
Yes, it does not apply to quanta generators, not sure yet about nova/supernova.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: furballdn on March 11, 2012, 06:24:15 am
Whoa. That's like seriously all I can say. I cannot wait for more gameplay features, and giving you the ability to have a free soft counter sounds like a pretty cool idea.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 11, 2012, 06:24:58 am
Daily quests and mark upgrading rolled into one. Pretty cool, and I'd love to see the mark upgrade do other things (such as generate 2 extra random quantum per turn, or have the ability to turn it into a creature, cast a minor spell, see enemy hand, etc...) I also noticed that there are two cards shown on the mark of time (Skeleton and Cloak). Which one is the actual counter?

Also, will mark abilities be active in PvP or will they be temporarily disabled whenever you use it there?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Mathematistic on March 11, 2012, 06:30:26 am
Daily quests and mark upgrading rolled into one. Pretty cool, and I'd love to see the mark upgrade do other things (such as generate 2 extra random quantum per turn, or have the ability to turn it into a creature, cast a minor spell, see enemy hand, etc...)

Will mark abilities be active in PvP?
If they are active in PvP, it would further increase the gap between veterans and newbies. Other than that, Awesome idea!
Offtopic: I could imagine a mark of time with nightmare counter...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: furballdn on March 11, 2012, 06:31:05 am
Daily quests and mark upgrading rolled into one. Pretty cool, and I'd love to see the mark upgrade do other things (such as generate 2 extra random quantum per turn, or have the ability to turn it into a creature, cast a minor spell, see enemy hand, etc...)

Will mark abilities be active in PvP?
If they are active in PvP, it would further increase the gap between veterans and newbies. Other than that, Awesome idea!
Offtopic: I could imagine a mark of time with nightmare counter...
Make a PvP3 with upgraded marks? There's already a bit of a gap between vets and newbies such as rare cards and upped cards.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Xenocidius on March 11, 2012, 06:32:37 am
Oh, wow. This sounds awesome. One question: will you have to do the quest line each time you want to change your mark's counter thing?

I can hardly wait. :)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Cheesy111 on March 11, 2012, 06:37:10 am
May I suggest that this be unable to apply to pillars/pendulums at a minimum, and perhaps novas as well?  It seems too powerful if one could choose, say, quantum pillars.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: rowcla on March 11, 2012, 06:52:25 am
Hmm, as nice as the quests sound, i cant say i like the idea of the bonus to the mark, it kinda means that people who are already better at the game, or simply have the cards to make better decks, will have even more advantage...

Although i would like to be able to use it on SNs :P

Personally i would prefer it if it gave something which is already obtainable, like a shard or just rares in general.

Also have to say that im really not a fan of cards which are hard counters to specific other cards, i mean its not really fun when you play a game and your opponent has a mark for the key card in your deck.

Also, if this is added in, how will this apply to ai opponents? will some of them have them? Or does it only apply to ordinary players?

Oh and i also have a problem with the fact that we need to repeat the quests that change what the card is, this kinda encourages the use of a single deck, which im not really a fan of doing...

But yeah, as i said, getting a shard would be nice, maybe a random non shard, non nymph rare for the normal difficulty quests, and a shard for the hard difficulty quests?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: OldTrees on March 11, 2012, 06:59:42 am
@Zanz
I assume there will be multiple Mark abilities to choose from at the end of the trial?

I personally think a mark that alternates between the element chosen at the trial and the element chosen at deckbuilding would be beneficial. It would expand support for Trio and Quad decks while not harming existing decks. This would create a more diverse metagame for the players to experience.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 11, 2012, 07:11:31 am
I'd approve of any new pve content even if it had no reward behind it.  I'm very glad to see that it should be 'challenging' for veterans; I look forward to that!  The idea of having your mark 'do something', as well as the trial idea, sounds like some of the things I've suggested in the past, so I'm glad that either someone listened, or else someone else had the same idea :)

I'll reserve any balance issues after we see how easy/hard the challenges are and what benefits this gives.  I will ask one question, though; how will this affect players who have mark cards in their decks, or will it not be affected by those?

Since zanz will be watching this thread, I'll mention my desire to see software-supported tournaments as well as ways to earn nymphs besides oracle luck and marks besides weekly tournaments.  (obviously with comparable difficulty to winning a tournament now, just with more than a 1-2 times per week chance for marks and oracle spins for nymphs)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: The_Mormegil on March 11, 2012, 07:53:34 am
This is a very cool idea, but it has a problem: it is repeatable but you don't have that much incentive to actually repeat it. It is not something you can do every day (akin to Oracle's predicted god), it's something you do once then forget about it until you need to re-attune your Mark to another card. Maybe make it so that you can only try the Trial once per day (resets with Oracle) and it has a VERY good reward?

Although, I can see this adding a whole new level to strategic PvP. It would KILL some decks: Pestal, for instance, would die against an anti-Devourer mark. Discord could have problems disrupting a low quanta start if your opponent suddently has +5 quanta when it comes into play. Hmmm...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on March 11, 2012, 08:29:06 am
Hmm, although it seems fun it particularly seems to target Fractal decks, since these cards are actually played from hand. What about the notorious Gravity Nymph? Will it be able to spam Black Hole while you just have to sit back and suffer, regardless of you having a Mark that counters Black Hole? How will it affect Black Hole, anyway, quanta generated before (maybe leaving as little as 2 left) or after it is cast? (same with healing and say... Lightning, will targeting Lightning on your 4 HP kill you or leave you with 4/5 hp?)

Can it be switched on and off other than redoing the quest to switch it on again? I could see competitive forum events not liking the advantage one gains from a particular mark. Or maybe building entire events around it, we'll see.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 11, 2012, 08:32:43 am
Zanz, all of my love <3.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: The_Mormegil on March 11, 2012, 09:02:13 am
Can it be switched on and off other than redoing the quest to switch it on again? I could see competitive forum events not liking the advantage one gains from a particular mark. Or maybe building entire events around it, we'll see.
Agreed, there needs to be a button on the deckbuilding screen to turn it off and on. Somethings as simple as redoing the metamorphosis tab so that there's an on/off trial button works.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: sluggy on March 11, 2012, 09:15:39 am
have to say im all for this. anything extra that can be added to the game can only be a positive thing.... if done in the right way.

id say listen to a few queries/ideas in this reply thread and then go for it! :)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Dm on March 11, 2012, 10:43:23 am
This made me go   ;D ;D is all I can say. :silly:


Zanz, all of my love <3.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: teffy on March 11, 2012, 12:19:37 pm
1. Can we always choose the empty mark again ?
2. What about mark cards from tournaments , are they good against specific cards ?
3. Are the non-random opponents always the same ?
4. Are mark additions available in PvP Duel  (not random)?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Thalas on March 11, 2012, 01:30:16 pm
New Quests content?  GREAT!!!!

Customised Marks? I'm scared. It could considerably de-balance the game if handed badly. It seems like rock-paper-scissors. Maybe 50% electrum gained bonus or Rare Card reward would be better.
Neverthless I think the game needs more cards. There tons of brilliant ideas in Armory such as Psionist, Rejuvenation, Harpy, Vines or Slow
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TheManuz on March 11, 2012, 01:43:06 pm
Wow, the idea is awesome!
I suggest this (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32218.msg436170.html) as a possible extra effect for mark!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jenkar on March 11, 2012, 02:37:38 pm
I'm not entirely sure i like this change. Will see. Wondering how this will impact leagues / pvp events.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Higurashi on March 11, 2012, 02:42:55 pm
This quest line and the factions have been what I've been looking forward to the most.

Due to organized PvP, I heavily suggest an option to turn this mark boost off at will.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: jippy99 on March 11, 2012, 02:44:30 pm
As others have already said, an option to turn this off is almost a must in all PvP events.  With that being said, I am very excited for this update.  Additional quests is just what this game needs.  Thanks Zanz!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: n00b on March 11, 2012, 03:30:17 pm
I just have one thing to say... Yay for new quests! :D. As for the secondary part, if I understood it correctly, it could be fairly powerful if you use it on a highly-used card, but nothing is 100%, so it balances itself out imo. Good job Zanz :)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 11, 2012, 03:51:14 pm
Hm, I don't particularly like this proposed change, but that's more of my aversion to change.  Anyways, this will undoubtedly be very interesting and give some of a nice change of pace from simply grinding if we're given a quest line or other obvious path to follow.  Can't wait to see how this will do in-game.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: 10 men on March 11, 2012, 05:38:40 pm
Sounds like a cool change, and I'd like to see more options for upgrading your mark, not just "I hate card XY".
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: OldTrees on March 11, 2012, 05:44:21 pm
A few suggestions:
1) Growing mark (ever [balanced number] of turns it increases by 1)
2) Mixed mark (alternates between the element chosen at the trial and the element chosen at deckbuilding)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: darkrobe on March 11, 2012, 06:07:24 pm
Hmmm. could open the possibility for expanded deck strategies. i.e. mark counter for photon. build deck with nightmare and photons. gain quanta if your opponent needs to play a photon to open space in their hand.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: zhangvict on March 11, 2012, 06:21:40 pm
Will multiple marks compound the effects? For example if you have a mark of fire and play a mark of fire, are you healed 10hp with 10 quanta generation, or just 5?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Rutarete on March 11, 2012, 07:39:30 pm
Very cool idea. I can't wait! Well, I'll try.
Question: Will it have the same effect for cards as for creatures with the same corresponding ability? Like The nymphs + corresponding alchemy cards.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Naesala on March 11, 2012, 07:43:54 pm
Oh boy oh boy oh boy! *jumps up and down and squeals like a school girl*
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: AchDeToni on March 11, 2012, 09:02:07 pm
This could be nice in the future, but Imo its not what the game needs right now. More cards (and i dont mean OP shards like serendipity or sacrifice) OR a way to get shards easier would be much more helpful. As for cards there are plenty of very good and nice ideas in forgery.

This idea just gives luck a bigger meaning, because a lot of decks will be HARD countered by this SOFT counter. +Most of the time this will be totally useless, thats why you should concentrate on other areas of the game.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jenkar on March 11, 2012, 09:04:39 pm
This could be nice in the future, but Imo its not what the game needs right now. More cards OR a way to get shards easier would be much more helpful. As for cards there are plenty of very good and nice ideas in forgery.

This idea just gives luck a bigger meaning, because a lot of decks will be HARD countered by this SOFT counter. +Most of the time this will be totally useless, thats why you should concentrate on other areas of the game.
Actually, no. Go in gold league and choose discord, bh or supernova. Dere you go :P
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: mega plini on March 11, 2012, 09:08:39 pm
This new Idea is very exiting! This could realy change the PvP games. I'm looking forward to play a pillarless deck, only fueled by the awesom new Mark. (altough it would't be very effective.
the quest stuf seems cool to!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: AchDeToni on March 11, 2012, 09:09:10 pm
Actually, no. Go in gold league and choose discord, bh or supernova. Dere you go :P
Shouldnt you use PvP first for balancing issues, than look at gold league ? And I dont think you would win much more with a soft counter against bh-discord-decks, they will destroy you nonetheless. The problem here lies in OP cards used in Gold League and should be adressed as that: with a minor nerf.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: xdude on March 11, 2012, 09:35:22 pm
This. PvP events. So awesome.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Marvaddin on March 11, 2012, 10:00:07 pm
Mark generating quanta and healing when opponent plays a hated card? Seems a bit o non-sense to me. Also, I doubt this little counter can really be important in most games, even why your strategy cant rely on your opponent playing a card. Interesting option to the war, however.

I admit Im specially glad about getting any type of new content, even more after nerfs and this shard BS being all we got for several months.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: BluePriest on March 12, 2012, 02:33:13 am
Very awesome changes. How far along are you on this? Is it just in the idea phase? Or have you actually been working on it codewise for quite a while?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: waterzx on March 12, 2012, 04:01:08 am
I wish there will be more cards. Hope that this trial thing won't delay the expansion of the card pool.

The most important thing of a card game is the cards
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Cheesy111 on March 12, 2012, 04:06:25 am
One more think...wouldn't Day Traitors become insanely overpowered with this against AI?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Absol on March 12, 2012, 05:43:18 am
One more think...wouldn't Day Traitors become insanely overpowered with this against AI?
As the game balancing is done through PvP, i don't think it's OP. Just an exploit.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jenkar on March 12, 2012, 08:47:11 am
One more think...wouldn't Day Traitors become insanely overpowered with this against AI?
As the game balancing is done through PvP, i don't think it's OP. Just an exploit.
Believely me, AI will learn~
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Atico on March 12, 2012, 10:39:19 am
Can You explain me how this will work? It is idea like:

Time mark - draw 2 cards
Life mark - heal 5 per turn
Light mark - add 25 max HP
Air mark - 30% more attack for airborne creatures
etc. (so mark define a bonus game for You)

or:
Darkness mark - double Cloak effect
Light mark - Archangel is 50% cheaper
etc. (here mark define a bonus for card)

or:
Death mark - poison creature X
Gravity mark - SkyBlitz is disabled
etc. (here mark define a bonus against opponent card)

or:
Death mark - don't allow heal
Earth mark - disable dive activity
Air mark - non-airborne cards have 50% less attack
etc. (here mark define a bonus against opponent game)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jenkar on March 12, 2012, 10:47:35 am
Completing the trial will grant access to a ritual that will improve your mark giving it a soft counter effect against a specific card.
Every time your opponent plays that specific card your mark will generate 5 extra quanta and heal you for 5 hp. (6/6 if you completed the trial in hard mode).
Reading the op helps, Atico.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Anthraxx on March 12, 2012, 10:52:41 am
Can we expect more mark upgrades in the future? This one seems cool, but also a bit luckluster and the whole painful trial might be useless after the arena environment adjusts to the change...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Atico on March 12, 2012, 11:01:52 am
Completing the trial will grant access to a ritual that will improve your mark giving it a soft counter effect against a specific card.
Every time your opponent plays that specific card your mark will generate 5 extra quanta and heal you for 5 hp. (6/6 if you completed the trial in hard mode).
Reading the op helps, Atico.
Ohh, now I understand ;) My language isn't so good, so when I saw this topic I thought about idea which I wrote. Sorry :)

On the other hand, maybe it will be more interesting, when bonus for mark will be other than 5 quantum+5 heal. Maybe all Marks should give 5 quantum and Time mark should allow draw second card, Life Heal by 5, Light Heal creatures, Air increase airborne creatures attack etc.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jenkar on March 12, 2012, 11:07:53 am
Completing the trial will grant access to a ritual that will improve your mark giving it a soft counter effect against a specific card.
Every time your opponent plays that specific card your mark will generate 5 extra quanta and heal you for 5 hp. (6/6 if you completed the trial in hard mode).
Reading the op helps, Atico.
Ohh, now I understand ;) My language isn't so good, so when I saw this topic I thought about idea which I wrote. Sorry :)

On the other hand, maybe it will be more interesting, when bonus for mark will be other than 5 quantum+5 heal. Maybe all Marks should give 5 quantum and Time mark should allow draw second card, Life Heal by 5, Light Heal creatures, Air increase airborne creatures attack etc.
Fully supported. Health gain for death mark just seems off in my mind.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Higurashi on March 12, 2012, 12:51:44 pm
But a death elemental gaining strength by siphoning from his foe when he employs certain magic? Seems pretty fitting to me.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: The_Mormegil on March 12, 2012, 01:55:33 pm
Healing and extra quanta fits for virtually every element one way or another. However, I also support multiple choices of personalization for the Mark (this also gives more reasons to play through the Trial multiple times).
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Naesala on March 12, 2012, 03:27:02 pm
Here's an idea more for Kongregate than for here, but why not add a new badge on Kongregate for the trial (hard or impossible depending on the difficulty and amount of expected grinding required to beat it)? This will remind many of the fans who've moved on of this game and possibly bring in newbies who havent seen this game because the old badges are buried deep in the unearned badge pages. Just a thought.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Bootsza on March 12, 2012, 04:44:13 pm
I am loving the idea of new content.

Improved (daily?) quests are just the sort of thing I would enjoy.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: russianspy1234 on March 12, 2012, 05:17:26 pm
will the soft counter apply to the card and its upgraded version, or will they be seperate?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: pikachufan2164 on March 12, 2012, 07:25:10 pm
Here's an idea more for Kongregate than for here, but why not add a new badge on Kongregate for the trial (hard or impossible depending on the difficulty and amount of expected grinding required to beat it)? This will remind many of the fans who've moved on of this game and possibly bring in newbies who havent seen this game because the old badges are buried deep in the unearned badge pages. Just a thought.
If I recall correctly, the maximum number of badges that can be earned per game on Kong is 4.

Besides, Zanz has no control on which badges get implemented. You'd have to badger (durr hurr bad pun) the Kong staff for that.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 12, 2012, 08:07:02 pm
I'll do this with Pink Floyd playing in the background.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Naesala on March 12, 2012, 08:18:15 pm
Here's an idea more for Kongregate than for here, but why not add a new badge on Kongregate for the trial (hard or impossible depending on the difficulty and amount of expected grinding required to beat it)? This will remind many of the fans who've moved on of this game and possibly bring in newbies who havent seen this game because the old badges are buried deep in the unearned badge pages. Just a thought.
If I recall correctly, the maximum number of badges that can be earned per game on Kong is 4.

Besides, Zanz has no control on which badges get implemented. You'd have to badger (durr hurr bad pun) the Kong staff for that.
True, i meant zanz could ask them and try to get it implemented. As to the max, i've never seen a game with more than 4, but Ive also never seen it written that a game cant have more than 4.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Calindu on March 12, 2012, 08:23:13 pm
Here's an idea more for Kongregate than for here, but why not add a new badge on Kongregate for the trial (hard or impossible depending on the difficulty and amount of expected grinding required to beat it)? This will remind many of the fans who've moved on of this game and possibly bring in newbies who havent seen this game because the old badges are buried deep in the unearned badge pages. Just a thought.
If I recall correctly, the maximum number of badges that can be earned per game on Kong is 4.

Besides, Zanz has no control on which badges get implemented. You'd have to badger (durr hurr bad pun) the Kong staff for that.
True, i meant zanz could ask them and try to get it implemented. As to the max, i've never seen a game with more than 4, but Ive also never seen it written that a game cant have more than 4.
I am pretty sure Greg wrote somewhere there can't be more than 4 badges.

As for topic: The opponents will always be the same, and how many of those will be?
The progress will be saved if we quit the game?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: pikachufan2164 on March 12, 2012, 08:36:01 pm
Here's an idea more for Kongregate than for here, but why not add a new badge on Kongregate for the trial (hard or impossible depending on the difficulty and amount of expected grinding required to beat it)? This will remind many of the fans who've moved on of this game and possibly bring in newbies who havent seen this game because the old badges are buried deep in the unearned badge pages. Just a thought.
If I recall correctly, the maximum number of badges that can be earned per game on Kong is 4.

Besides, Zanz has no control on which badges get implemented. You'd have to badger (durr hurr bad pun) the Kong staff for that.
True, i meant zanz could ask them and try to get it implemented. As to the max, i've never seen a game with more than 4, but Ive also never seen it written that a game cant have more than 4.
Source: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/1/topics/37837#posts-792550
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Skotadi Phobos on March 12, 2012, 11:18:10 pm
Wow, I can't wait to see what this will do in tournaments.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 12, 2012, 11:54:52 pm
Which wouldn't be the case, due to the request to add the possible option to turn it off for PvP events.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Rutarete on March 12, 2012, 11:57:54 pm
Which wouldn't be the case, due to the request to add the possible option to turn it off for PvP events.
Not necessarily.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 13, 2012, 12:07:27 am
Well, that's excluding the possible events that allow it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: BluePriest on March 13, 2012, 01:04:46 am
Remember that Zanz has said that they will be in pvp, and that its the community that said that they should be optional. Aka as of right now, assume its not turned off. Also remember, from the wording, this is mainly in the idea phase and zanz is trying to decide exactly how to do it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: YoungSot on March 13, 2012, 02:04:34 am
First off, I'll add my voice to the choir of players singing their praises over all these new additions to the game. New content is the lifeblood of a game and community like this one, and I am excited to see so much activity. Thank you Zanz!
Now to the point. Others have already noted that in it's current form this rule would hopefully be optional, as it would otherwise have a negative effect on organized pvp. To explain: Events and tourneys have their own separate metagames determined by various special rules and deck restrictions, so that which card you want to have "countered" by your mark would change constantly, not only from event to event but even game to game. If the only way to change your countered-card is to replay a somewhat lengthy quest, it will be extremely difficult or impossible for many players to keep their enhanced mark competitive, especially if they are playing in multiple events. If the goal is to allow these marks to remain in organized pvp, then changing the target of your enhanced mark should be made a fairly quick process.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: moomoose on March 13, 2012, 02:13:26 am
maybe there could be alternate weak rewards, such as starting matches with a few quanta of your mark, or some such, instead of card countering, for events where the user would prefer not have a card counter bonus mechanic.  just a small something to have to show you completed the trial, but not something that would be objectionable in a pvp event.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 13, 2012, 02:26:46 am
The trial bonus could always just be disabled in pvp, just like you can't take oracle pets into pvp, if it turns out to be an issue.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: inspector on March 17, 2012, 03:19:05 am
Idea: The trial upon completion should reward a mark re-attunement token which can be stored (in multiples) for later use.

This is important as it would let us do the trial even when we don't need to change the "hated" card immediately.

Still I have mixed feelings about this system as it would be in a way "paying" to change a deck - the correct choice of a hated card will be an integral part of a fully efficient deck.
I'm not even getting into implications on PvP, it can be huge.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 17, 2012, 10:53:03 pm
Question: will the blessing pass on to different elements?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: BluePriest on March 18, 2012, 12:33:20 am
League of Legends ranked has "banned" champions that each team sets before a ranked match. This actually opens up more strategies than it closes because it allows you to target the weakness of your team. I feel even if enabled in pvp, it would help more than hurt as it would make certain decks more viable.

Edit:
Can anyone think of a card that is the only one in its niche? For example, explosion would not fit into this because steal fills a similar role. Mindgate is the only card I can think of that has no other cards that do what it does.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: sunyata on March 18, 2012, 12:37:54 am
Sounds interesting, and should provide another good angle to the game. It gets my support, but some thought needs to be given to how to deal with some of the valid critcisms in this thread.  E.g widening the gap between experienced and newbie players may put new people off from joining the game.  It already takes an enormous amount of grinding to get up-to-speed in EtG.  Something that further penalises new players should be treated with caution.  Still, the trial would probably infer only a small advantage so may not be too big an issue.

One question.  How would healing from Trial mark interact with SoSa?  Would your hated card cause you damage instead??
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Elite arbiter on March 18, 2012, 02:07:06 am
In general this seems like a very good idea. I do have a few suggestions to get it working. The first one is a point that has already been addressed, but I would like to point it out clearly.

*    Make your hated card alterable at will.

Now the argument here is that this will make your trial have very limited replay value, and my other suggestions primarily aim to fix this while still letting the hated card be changed so as to facilitate specialized tournament events.

*    Make it so that you have to do the trial separately for each element.

This both prevents people from choosing the optimal element to breeze through it, and guarantees that a massive amount of play-content is added, as to 'complete' the trials you have to be a master of all twelve elements. However I have one more suggestion on top of this to

*    Add a secondary bonus for defeating an element that you have already defeated.

And more than just coins since I imagine those will be gained through the trials anyway. My idea was something along the lines of a graphically altered version of a card. This way players who like specific cards can get their favorite cards selected to look unique. And considering you could get 6 unupgraded and 6 upgraded for a complete set, it guarantees that there is no 'end of content' anywhere in sight. No actual mechanics change with this would be implemented, it would just be a flavorful flair.

Of course, this might be a bit tricky and time consuming to even put a small sparkle into the pictures of all the elements cards unupgraded and upgraded. Other suggestions are welcome, but there should be at least 'some' key secondary stackable bonus to encourage continued trial use.

tl;dr: Read the Bolded things, these sum up the point and are the main purpose of the post.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: FlareGlutox on March 18, 2012, 09:58:04 am
Can anyone think of a card that is the only one in its niche? For example, explosion would not fit into this because steal fills a similar role. Mindgate is the only card I can think of that has no other cards that do what it does.
Sanctuary. Of course the healing aspect is similar to SoG and Feral Bond, but the immunity to denial is something unique to it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: The_Mormegil on March 18, 2012, 11:01:30 am
In general this seems like a very good idea. I do have a few suggestions to get it working. The first one is a point that has already been addressed, but I would like to point it out clearly.

*    Make your hated card alterable at will.

Now the argument here is that this will make your trial have very limited replay value, and my other suggestions primarily aim to fix this while still letting the hated card be changed so as to facilitate specialized tournament events.

*    Make it so that you have to do the trial separately for each element.

This both prevents people from choosing the optimal element to breeze through it, and guarantees that a massive amount of play-content is added, as to 'complete' the trials you have to be a master of all twelve elements. However I have one more suggestion on top of this to

*    Add a secondary bonus for defeating an element that you have already defeated.

And more than just coins since I imagine those will be gained through the trials anyway. My idea was something along the lines of a graphically altered version of a card. This way players who like specific cards can get their favorite cards selected to look unique. And considering you could get 6 unupgraded and 6 upgraded for a complete set, it guarantees that there is no 'end of content' anywhere in sight. No actual mechanics change with this would be implemented, it would just be a flavorful flair.

Of course, this might be a bit tricky and time consuming to even put a small sparkle into the pictures of all the elements cards unupgraded and upgraded. Other suggestions are welcome, but there should be at least 'some' key secondary stackable bonus to encourage continued trial use.

tl;dr: Read the Bolded things, these sum up the point and are the main purpose of the post.
I love this idea. Really really really love it.


I imagine the implementation as follows:

You can take a Trial for each element. Each tests your ability against that element through various challenges. Easy mode with Hard mode available after you beat it once in easy mode.
When you complete the trial, you can select a reward from a list. Mark modification allows you to have a mark of the element of the trial tuned to a certain card. You can change the card at-will. Each mark modification grants you a certain benefit, and all mark modifications can be turned on and off at will. Other rewards are available and more can be added in the future. However, most are "unlocked" once and that's it. However, there are two more options that are useful multiple times: an upgraded card of your choice (not broken: farming gods with Liquid Antimatter is going to be faster, and Arena grants thousands of electrum if you have a decent farmer; however, it is good for newcomers who play on easy mode and want to get their hands on a RoL Hope deck), or a card with altered graphic effects. These graphic effects are not necessarily new art (that's hard to come by), but rather manifest when you play the card. A flash of light, a noise, something minor that is there just for collectors' sake.

Alternatively, you can grant a score boost. Something like +1000 score on easy mode and +20'000 score on hard mode? But I'd like the graphic effect better, it's cool and gives a purpose for farming trials.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Rutarete on March 18, 2012, 10:33:17 pm
I also like Elite Arbiter's suggestion
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Mathematistic on March 19, 2012, 09:33:04 am
Alternatively, you have to "collect them all", once per trial?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: burne on March 19, 2012, 09:50:23 am
Acheiving the trial for each hated card you may select is hard work, long and repetitive.

I like it !


When you're close to  the max level, electrum are worthless.
You don't even spin the wheel.
Maybe something else to do with your stack  (for a while)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: bogtro on March 19, 2012, 10:23:01 pm
I'd like to see some sort of electrum/score reward for the Trial, since as it stands now there is no real use to repeating it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 11, 2012, 07:43:35 am
I like the idea of the quest, but it seems to me that the reward will only have limited use.  It's fine for countering cards which take away your health or quanta or cause you to spend extra quanta (like Rewind), but I can't see how it'd be much use against most cards.  How would gaining 5 HP and 5 quanta be in any way beneficial against Fire Shield, for example?  Or the Shard of Sacrifice?

I'm not sure what the reward should be, and I like the idea of having something added to your mark, but I think that this current idea is far more limited than it initially seems.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 13, 2012, 10:47:59 pm
^ Say you were running an SNbow with an entropy mark that countered black holes.
With the mark, you could be up and running more quickly after the BH usage.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: furballdn on April 13, 2012, 10:53:35 pm
^ Say you were running an SNbow with an entropy mark that countered black holes.
With the mark, you could be up and running more quickly after the BH usage.
Denial deck with antisanctuary mark.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: plastiqe on April 14, 2012, 12:04:23 am
Instead of The Trial I'd call it "The Gauntlet"
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Skotadi Phobos on April 14, 2012, 12:25:17 am
Instead of The Trial I'd call it "The Gauntlet"
Or "The Test", but that doesn't sound quite as cool.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 15, 2012, 10:38:11 am
^ Say you were running an SNbow with an entropy mark that countered black holes.
With the mark, you could be up and running more quickly after the BH usage.

I'm not saying that there's no cards that it'll be useful against, just that the number of cards it's useful against is quite limited.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: dreadwoe on April 15, 2012, 11:14:19 am
aaargh this still wont help if the card you choose is dischord
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on April 15, 2012, 04:18:05 pm
Mind. blown. This idea is just amazing! It puts a whole new dynamic in a, for the most part, deep game. I wonder how it affects the truly  new players though.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: BluePriest on April 15, 2012, 07:47:04 pm
Obvious BAn Choices
SN
Cremation
Sanctuary
Black Hole Pest
Fractal
SoSac
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 15, 2012, 08:08:41 pm
Don't forget Antlion
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 15, 2012, 08:30:11 pm
Protip: Select the card it counters so that you can play the counter to the card ASAP.
I.E. Water mark for SoSac
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 16, 2012, 09:17:04 pm
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuump

Just curious if there's any new information on this.  I love the idea of more quests; it's one of the things I'm most looking forward to, particularly if they are more difficult than current pve modes. (FG/plat)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Poker Alho on May 16, 2012, 11:24:27 pm
almost forgot about this, thanks for bumping dragon :P or otherwise i wouldnt see it

i thought this was supposed to be added with 1.31
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: dsc003 on May 17, 2012, 03:37:27 am
Interesting ideas for game expansion, both in Zanz original post and the on-going discussion.

I like some of the ideas that Elite arbiter mentioned...

In general this seems like a very good idea. I do have a few suggestions to get it working. The first one is a point that has already been addressed, but I would like to point it out clearly.

*    Make your hated card alterable at will.

Now the argument here is that this will make your trial have very limited replay value, and my other suggestions primarily aim to fix this while still letting the hated card be changed so as to facilitate specialized tournament events.

*    Make it so that you have to do the trial separately for each element.

This both prevents people from choosing the optimal element to breeze through it, and guarantees that a massive amount of play-content is added, as to 'complete' the trials you have to be a master of all twelve elements. However I have one more suggestion on top of this to

*    Add a secondary bonus for defeating an element that you have already defeated.

And more than just coins since I imagine those will be gained through the trials anyway. My idea was something along the lines of a graphically altered version of a card. This way players who like specific cards can get their favorite cards selected to look unique. And considering you could get 6 unupgraded and 6 upgraded for a complete set, it guarantees that there is no 'end of content' anywhere in sight. No actual mechanics change with this would be implemented, it would just be a flavorful flair.

Of course, this might be a bit tricky and time consuming to even put a small sparkle into the pictures of all the elements cards unupgraded and upgraded. Other suggestions are welcome, but there should be at least 'some' key secondary stackable bonus to encourage continued trial use.

tl;dr: Read the Bolded things, these sum up the point and are the main purpose of the post.

...however... I think that once you have beaten the trial (say with a Life mark) and you want to change the card-counter you selected at the end a player should be required to re-play the trial with that mark again. This would seem more balanced to me, especially with the continued addition of new cards. Also adding additional levels of difficulty each time you play completely through with a particular mark. Playing the trial all the way through the third time with a Life mark would be more challenging than playing through the first time with any other mark. I suppose this would require the benefit to warrant the difficulty as well, so I'm not so sure. Just my thoughts on it, great ideas, hopefully they can be improved and implemented.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: OdinVanguard on May 17, 2012, 05:21:08 pm
SWEET! I loved having the PvE quest lines, but I was sad they ended so fast. I think this will be an awesome addition, regardless of the reward... although the reward planned is pretty cool too.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: asiantraceur on May 20, 2012, 10:48:57 pm
This sounds like an awesome idea!
Couple of ideas, I hope Im not repeating anyone since I only read the first page:
What incentive would there be for someone to choose the "hard" trial as opposed to the "normal" trial? If this hasn't been addressed yet may I suggest that hard trial will let you counter upped( so it will counter upgraded antimatter and unupped antimatter) whereas normal only lets you counter non-upped cards...

You should make it so that people have to redo the trial every day or at least have some time limit on it...

Implement the PvP3 idea

Make The Trial uppercase :P
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: furballdn on May 20, 2012, 11:18:55 pm
Trials seems like it'll get confused with forum trials. Name change perhaps? To something like "the gauntlet"?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TheManuz on May 21, 2012, 11:32:49 am
I also vote for "The Gauntlet" for its name!

I'm against countering only unupped cards when playing normal trial, because it punish beginners!
And in the long run, nobody would do the normal route, if can afford to beat the hard route.

I propose that The Gauntlet could give 3 "counter charges" for the normal route and 5 "counter charges" for the hard route (numbers should be evaluated).
This way you can repeat it many time to accumulate charges.

But if you want to change the card countered, you'll have to pay some "charges" (3 for example).
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: POB_123 on May 26, 2012, 01:21:05 am
Sounds Very Very interesting.
more quests = more fun!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Heavenscall on June 04, 2012, 10:40:46 pm
More PVE quests - sounds simply good. Two different ways, one for new players and another for veterans - yep, that is very good! The idea with charges to switch the counter target seems a good idea too, cause your able to switch your counter target during a tournament - and that is needed, if you want to get the best chance to win with different decks...
And last, but not least - gauntled - vote it
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: OdinVanguard on June 07, 2012, 07:41:48 pm
Question on the mechanics here,
Will you "store" each ritual you complete so you can switch between them?
I.e. Suppose you first pick / complete the "steal" card trial, and then complete a "deflagrate" trial next. Will you be able to switch between the two or will you have to recomplete the "steal" trial if you want that one again?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Heavenscall on June 07, 2012, 11:05:04 pm
At the moment i think you have to go the full "trial" to change the target card. And of cause, if you switch from Steal to Deflagration and want back to Steal you have to do the "trial" again. The idea with the charges is, that you can farm charges to a max. number of charges and then you be able to pay some for an instant switch. Useful in Turnaments i think, but maybe it´s a greater challenge that you can farm charges, but not so many that you can switch in every tournament game...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: esran on June 08, 2012, 12:00:18 am
i think it would work best if you had to complete it just once for each card, and then could switch beetween them at will.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Heavenscall on June 08, 2012, 05:00:47 pm
if you can choose every card you picked one time after a sucessful trial every time in the future -  its too easy to have all wanted banns. So you could farm the trial until you have picked all cards and than its over, sounds not so good to me...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: FIQ on June 08, 2012, 05:08:37 pm
Why a fixed counter ("gain quanta")? Why not fit it to each card? Yes, I know, harder.. but it would work better for cards when a quanta bonus doesn't help much (Black Hole on rainbows is an example). A quanta bonus work well on things like creatures. Permanents, and especially many spells, not so much.

Say for example this:

You decide that you hate Reflective Shield, and have it as your counter. Opponent play it, your counter takes its' effect (say, de-immortalizing the shield). All done.

Or, you hate Cloak. Opponent play it, and Cloak gets only 2 counters.

Etc. Pretty much, the selected card get a minor nerf, not to make it useless, but to make it weaker.

Black hole only takes 2 of your quanta, Fire Bolt does 2 damage per 10 quanta, etc...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Heavenscall on June 09, 2012, 12:48:59 am
another interesting idea, more work to be implemented, but possible

but still i prefer the complete counter of 1 hatet card
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: gumbeh on June 09, 2012, 08:49:37 am
@Zanz
I assume there will be multiple Mark abilities to choose from at the end of the trial?

I personally think a mark that alternates between the element chosen at the trial and the element chosen at deckbuilding would be beneficial. It would expand support for Trio and Quad decks while not harming existing decks. This would create a more diverse metagame for the players to experience.

As usual, I agree on this subject. Rainbro Style is tops in many ways, and keeps getting better each time a new shard is added.

Pendulums were great, bipolar/tidal/split marks would be an awesome move further in the direction of supporting diversity.

Oh, wow. This sounds awesome. One question: will you have to do the quest line each time you want to change your mark's counter thing?

I can hardly wait. :)

I hope so! People who've "beaten" the game (whether their personal definition of "beaten" means beating the FGs, or owning all the cards) always need new things to do, and compelling reasons to do them!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Asinickle on June 15, 2012, 04:27:20 pm
This sounds like a great addition to the game! Being able to 'ban' a card would help make a large number of decks more viable.
So, cool idea!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Totila on June 15, 2012, 11:02:06 pm
awesome idea! :D i'm loving this "trial"
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Xamuel on June 15, 2012, 11:15:13 pm
Wow.  This is a brilliant idea.  It's like a generic auto-nerf to all OP cards, without tediously considering and altering each individual card.

The only balance issue I can see (and someone might've addressed this, I haven't read the whole thread):
People could combine this with the oracle's false god predictions, and choose a soft counter based on the upcoming false god, this would be a massive nerf to all the predicted false gods.  Then again, you only get one prediction per day and it's not like a predicted false god is that hard anyway...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Fippe94 on June 16, 2012, 11:09:44 am
People could combine this with the oracle's false god predictions, and choose a soft counter based on the upcoming false god, this would be a massive nerf to all the predicted false gods.  Then again, you only get one prediction per day and it's not like a predicted false god is that hard anyway...
Doesn't seem to matter anyway, as you said you only get one prediction per day, and it seems like you have to redo the trial every time you want to change counter-card, so it's barely even worth it just for one predicted god (depending on how long the trial will take)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Chapuz on July 14, 2012, 01:30:32 pm
No news from Zanzarino for a long time, maybe he is very busy making the trial  :-X

Where did I read there were gonna be more often but smaller game updates?  :P
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Wizy on July 14, 2012, 04:28:51 pm
Where did I read there were gonna be more often but smaller game updates?  :P
here? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39146.msg497850.html#msg497850)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jyiber on July 29, 2012, 07:43:34 am
I like the weak nerf deck upgrade, but there's alot of potential deck upgrade ideas.

 -Have a permanent pet. (picked from a list of designated weak creatures) Can bring them to pvp.

 -Increase the maximum amount of one a card by 3 (excluding cards that benefit too much from this)

 -An upgrade that lets you start with 3 of a card type. (Example: you choose spells and build a deck that only uses one spell that your strategy revolves around. You now start with it.)

These all have their own "trial" and usually have a target card like the trial.
Anyone else have any cool deck upgrade ideas? Those were off the top of my head.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TheManuz on July 29, 2012, 02:16:19 pm
Shield or weapon from start? But it could be too powerful...
Early Discord, Pulvy or Trident could be too much.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 10, 2012, 07:27:37 pm
Status?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: nilsieboy on August 10, 2012, 07:52:41 pm
Status?
no idea, last time zanz was online was 8 july..
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Poker Alho on August 10, 2012, 08:03:17 pm
still waiting for this to go live...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Skotadi Phobos on August 10, 2012, 11:54:35 pm
still waiting for this to go live...
Still waiting for zanz to come back...
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Ahleen on August 28, 2012, 01:42:57 pm
It seems to be a good variant to the game
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: GeniugG on September 01, 2012, 06:46:07 pm
how can i enter the trial or still not implemented?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: n00b on September 01, 2012, 06:59:58 pm
how can i enter the trial or still not implemented?

Hasn't been added yet, though I assume if it will be added, it will be soon™
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TribalTrouble on September 05, 2012, 04:11:35 am
how can i enter the trial or still not implemented?

Hasn't been added yet, though I assume if it will be added, it will be soon™
Which soon? Blizzard soon, CCP Games soon, or what?  ?_?

Also, when having to re-do quests to change the card on the mark, would it have to be in same difficulty for same bonus?
And, does this stay if you change mark?
Also, is this still being worked on?
Finally, I will annoy you with these in an email if you don't answer here within the end of this year D:
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: OldTrees on September 05, 2012, 04:27:17 am
how can i enter the trial or still not implemented?

Hasn't been added yet, though I assume if it will be added, it will be soon™
Which soon? Blizzard soon, CCP Games soon, or what?  ?_?

Also, when having to re-do quests to change the card on the mark, would it have to be in same difficulty for same bonus?
And, does this stay if you change mark?
Also, is this still being worked on?
Finally, I will annoy you with these in an email if you don't answer here within the end of this year D:
Only 1 person is involved with developing the game. n00b is not Zanz.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: RavingRabbid on September 05, 2012, 08:39:34 am
how can i enter the trial or still not implemented?

Hasn't been added yet, though I assume if it will be added, it will be soon™
Which soon? Blizzard soon, CCP Games soon, or what?  ?_?
Valve soon.


:V
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: skyironsword on November 25, 2012, 02:57:30 pm
I dislike this soft counter idea, there are a lot of cards this wouldn't even help against.

Maybe allow you to pick one of these mark upgrades?

*usable once per game
**passive

:life Cast Heal for free.*
:gravity Airborne status is removed from all creatures.**
:air Airborne creatures gain +1/+1.**
:air Airborne creatures cannot be targeted by your opponent.**
:death Opponent starts with 2 poison counters.**
:time Draw 2 cards.*
:time You cannot deckout.** (You will stop drawing cards normally when you have no cards left in your deck)
:water Begin the game with a +2 purify counter.**
:fire Fire Bolt deals 4 damage every 10 quanta.**
:darkness Opponent starts with 80% HP.**
:darkness Come into play cloaked.**
:light Heal 10 whenever your opponent discards a card.**
:entropy Deal 1-3 random damage to all creatures on the field.*
:entropy Heal 10 whenever your opponent draws an extra card.**
:entropy Your creatures ignore shields.**
:earth Start with 120% HP.**
:aether You can target your own immaterial creatures.**
:aether All immaterial creatures get +1/+1.**
:aether Target creature is now immaterial.*
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on November 29, 2012, 12:20:53 pm
I dislike this soft counter idea, there are a lot of cards this wouldn't even help against.

Maybe allow you to pick one of these mark upgrades?

I like a lot of these ideas much better than the idea as listed.  A few suggestions, though...

Quote
:life Cast Heal for free.*

Or how about healing 3 every turn.  So it's the equivalent of having a Shard of Gratitude if you have a mark other than :life.

Quote
:gravity Airborne status is removed from all creatures.**

I think that's too specific in what it would counter.  As :gravity has a lot of effects based around the health of the creatures on its side of the field, how about all your creatures gain 0/+2.  In other words, making an unupped Otyugh into an upped one.

Quote
:air Airborne creatures cannot be targeted by your opponent.**

Probably OP.  How about gaining 25% chance they cannot be targeted, stackable with Shard of Freedom.  In other words, have this and play 3 Shards and you'll have the 100%.

Quote
:death Opponent starts with 2 poison counters.**

Or, to make it stronger, every creature your opponent plays has a chance to die instantly (like a preemptive Skull Shield).

Quote
:time Draw 2 cards.*

Or, perhaps, :time creatures don't suffer from the summoning sickness.

Quote
:water Begin the game with a +2 purify counter.**

Or, for something a little more powerful, all creatures your opponent plays have a chance to enter the game frozen.

Quote
:entropy Heal 10 whenever your opponent draws an extra card.**
:entropy Your creatures ignore shields.**

The heal seems like a :life ability, and the shields seems like :gravity.  How about any creature of yours which is killed has a chance to not die, Shrodinger's Cat-style?

I really like your ideas, although I'm less keen on the idea of having one-off effects which can be triggered.  Something passive for each element would be much better, I think.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: kimham8a on November 30, 2012, 12:21:12 am
Ignoring shields is pretty OP imo. Entropy rainbows will barely even need Shard of Focus anymore (though they still will for lolz).
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: jazzfan27 on February 04, 2013, 06:58:32 am
My idea.

When your card is played, your opponent's library is searched and the top copy of that card is removed from the game.

This way you usually won't see more than 3 copies of your hated card.  Might see a bit more if your opp drew more than 3.

I think this is a fairly workable soft counter.  Just zaps copies out of the library.

Also, I'd love it if this worked for all shards as one card.  I get so tired of seeing shards in every deck, it gets repetitive.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: laxnut90 on March 08, 2013, 12:11:35 am
I think it would be better balance wise if completing this challenge gave you 1 card of your choice (Nymph, Shard, Rare Weapon etc.)  There could even be cards introduced that can only be won from completing this challenge. 
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 08, 2013, 04:45:34 am
Any word on it's ETA?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Icet44 on March 10, 2013, 08:45:43 am
It seems like Zanzarino has ditched Elements. Unless he has just had a very long break, I don't think we will be seeing any more updates :'(
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 10, 2013, 11:18:22 am
It seems like Zanzarino has ditched Elements. Unless he has just had a very long break, I don't think we will be seeing any more updates :'(
This is only a side project for Zanzarino... and we've had things like this said before. He just isn't very talkative :p
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: n00b on March 10, 2013, 02:31:42 pm
It seems like Zanzarino has ditched Elements. Unless he has just had a very long break, I don't think we will be seeing any more updates :'(

This has happened before (long periods of afkness), but I highly doubt Zanz would just leave without announcing something to us. Besides, he's still semi-active on the forums, coming on every week or so.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: artimies7 on March 10, 2013, 06:00:02 pm
/me sees post.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8o3vhxlyj1r0ott6o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 10, 2013, 08:33:59 pm
Before the last update, everyone thought zanz was dead or kidnapped or something, too.  Then he suddenly appeared, bearing gifts of dry spells and salvagers, in addition to changing all the shards.  He's been gone for longer in the past.  I've been playing about 2 years now, and I've seen this happen before.  Admittedly, he was more active when I first started, though, but I don't think he's abandoned Elements yet.

And yeah... 'not talkative' is understatement of the year for zanz :p  He's like Santa Claus, bearing gifts every so often, but you never see him or get to talk to him or thank him or ask him for anything.  He just shoots down your chimney, leaves a bunch of new cards, and rides off on his reindeer dragon sleigh.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: artimies7 on March 10, 2013, 09:43:19 pm
He's like Santa Claus, bearing gifts every so often, but you never see him or get to talk to him or thank him or ask him for anything.  He just shoots down your chimney, leaves a bunch of new cards, and rides off on his reindeer dragon sleigh.

Lawlolawl. Reindeer dragon sleigh. Now a thing.

Nice metaphor simile too.

@everyone_else Yeah, zanz is not a talkative guy. Cut him some slack here; he's made most to all of Elements as we know it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jyiber on March 11, 2013, 01:40:03 am
Can't blame him.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 12, 2013, 08:58:10 pm
I read that as actually shooting down the chimney... I was very confuzzled until I re-read it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: yee on March 13, 2013, 09:22:44 am
Before the last update, everyone thought zanz was dead or kidnapped or something, too.  Then he suddenly appeared, bearing gifts of dry spells and salvagers, in addition to changing all the shards.  He's been gone for longer in the past.  I've been playing about 2 years now, and I've seen this happen before.  Admittedly, he was more active when I first started, though, but I don't think he's abandoned Elements yet.

And yeah... 'not talkative' is understatement of the year for zanz :p  He's like Santa Claus, bearing gifts every so often, but you never see him or get to talk to him or thank him or ask him for anything.  He just shoots down your chimney, leaves a bunch of new cards, and rides off on his reindeer dragon sleigh.
Could somebody make this into card idea?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 13, 2013, 05:30:32 pm
Sounds like something that was done for a holiday card design competition.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: blarp on March 14, 2013, 11:36:14 pm
Bout time I commented on this.

New content is great, but personally I do not like this idea. I forsee many problems with the main benefit being a cool pve task.

I'm glad you're thinking of new features and I like the trial idea, but I think the reward should not be customizeable marks. It should not allow you to chose photon and then make a photon nightmare deck to gain a crapton of quanta if your opponent plays any of the cards etc.... Maybe earn a rehand shuffle at the start of the game? Or a one time use precog or something?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 15, 2013, 12:10:17 am
Bout time I commented on this.

New content is great, but personally I do not like this idea. I forsee many problems with the main benefit being a cool pve task.

I'm glad you're thinking of new features and I like the trial idea, but I think the reward should not be customizeable marks. It should not allow you to chose photon and then make a photon nightmare deck to gain a crapton of quanta if your oppoent plays any of the cards etc.... Maybe earn a rehand shuffle at the start of the game? Or a one time use precog or something?
AI will probably be reprogrammed not to dump out tons of cheap creatures.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: blarp on March 15, 2013, 03:03:53 am
Bout time I commented on this.

New content is great, but personally I do not like this idea. I forsee many problems with the main benefit being a cool pve task.

I'm glad you're thinking of new features and I like the trial idea, but I think the reward should not be customizeable marks. It should not allow you to chose photon and then make a photon nightmare deck to gain a crapton of quanta if your opponent plays any of the cards etc.... Maybe earn a rehand shuffle at the start of the game? Or a one time use precog or something?
AI will probably be reprogrammed not to dump out tons of cheap creatures.

Maybe but it just seems like a bunch of work for a debatable feature.

If zanz's time is so important, why can't we decide how it should be best spent?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Hazardus10 on March 18, 2013, 01:51:23 am
Bout time I commented on this.

New content is great, but personally I do not like this idea. I forsee many problems with the main benefit being a cool pve task.

I'm glad you're thinking of new features and I like the trial idea, but I think the reward should not be customizeable marks. It should not allow you to chose photon and then make a photon nightmare deck to gain a crapton of quanta if your opponent plays any of the cards etc.... Maybe earn a rehand shuffle at the start of the game? Or a one time use precog or something?
AI will probably be reprogrammed not to dump out tons of cheap creatures.

Maybe but it just seems like a bunch of work for a debatable feature.

If zanz's time is so important, why can't we decide how it should be best spent?

Agreed! Zanz is always on a tight schedule, and who knows the game better than the people that play it!
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: bripod on March 18, 2013, 02:10:06 am
If zanz's time is so important, why can't we decide how it should be best spent?

Maybe because its HIS game?
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: rob77dp on March 18, 2013, 04:17:51 am
Before the last update, everyone thought zanz was dead or kidnapped or something, too.  Then he suddenly appeared, bearing gifts of dry spells and salvagers, in addition to changing all the shards.  He's been gone for longer in the past.  I've been playing about 2 years now, and I've seen this happen before.  Admittedly, he was more active when I first started, though, but I don't think he's abandoned Elements yet.

And yeah... 'not talkative' is understatement of the year for zanz :p  He's like Santa Claus, bearing gifts every so often, but you never see him or get to talk to him or thank him or ask him for anything.  He just shoots down your chimney, leaves a bunch of new cards, and rides off on his reindeer dragon sleigh.
Could somebody make this into card idea?
that looks amazing! I cant wait for some new cards! looking forward to it! :D
Bout time I commented on this.

New content is great, but personally I do not like this idea. I forsee many problems with the main benefit being a cool pve task.

I'm glad you're thinking of new features and I like the trial idea, but I think the reward should not be customizeable marks. It should not allow you to chose photon and then make a photon nightmare deck to gain a crapton of quanta if your opponent plays any of the cards etc.... Maybe earn a rehand shuffle at the start of the game? Or a one time use precog or something?
AI will probably be reprogrammed not to dump out tons of cheap creatures.

Maybe but it just seems like a bunch of work for a debatable feature.

If zanz's time is so important, why can't we decide how it should be best spent?

I highly suggest you get control of your double and triple posting and make sure you have "quality" posts and are not just posting for the sake of gaining post count.  That is all highly frowned upon in this establishment.  :)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 18, 2013, 08:37:14 pm
If zanz's time is so important, why can't we decide how it should be best spent?

Maybe because its HIS game?
See now, this may be why we can't have nice things.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: bombzero on March 23, 2013, 06:55:10 am
This is a very cool idea, but it has a problem: it is repeatable but you don't have that much incentive to actually repeat it. It is not something you can do every day (akin to Oracle's predicted god), it's something you do once then forget about it until you need to re-attune your Mark to another card. Maybe make it so that you can only try the Trial once per day (resets with Oracle) and it has a VERY good reward?

Although, I can see this adding a whole new level to strategic PvP. It would KILL some decks: Pestal, for instance, would die against an anti-Devourer mark. Discord could have problems disrupting a low quanta start if your opponent suddently has +5 quanta when it comes into play. Hmmm...

this is very accurate
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jyiber on May 09, 2013, 10:04:14 pm
Well, I hope this leads to deck upgrades. Ways to make your deck that have small advantages. The suggestion triggered many ideas that add a layer to gameplay that Elements and most card games haven't had before: A non-card game changer. A fundamental change to how you choose to play cards. Imagine whole new layers of strategy to overcome, instead of the same-old, same-old.

They could even have separate playlists, incase your worried about it interfering with classic gameplay.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: traceurling on May 10, 2013, 05:38:18 pm
What about like a "buff" kinda like what you get in LoL, red buff and blue buff? And you can choose between two trials, where one of the trials will give you a buff where the counter to a specific card is you get +X HP, and the other buff is you get +Y quanta, so you would choose which one you would rather have, and each "buff" would last a certain amount of games before you have to go through the trial again...and you can only have one buff at a time :D
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Brontos on May 13, 2013, 12:07:32 pm
If you can choose the triggered effect it can be awesome (so many effects possible...). And the kind of thing that will balance itself with time. Good idea!

That said, if adding new quests is really something cool, I'd rather see organised play implemented in the game client instead. But I want to stay positive, so forget this. ^^

Can't wait to have a mark that makes me draw a card each time [Reverse Time] is played by my opp. ^^
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: Jyiber on May 13, 2013, 08:54:39 pm
How about one where you start with a target card in your deck? It's not a extra card you get start with, but rather just making sure that card is in your first hand if it's in your deck. Lets say a certain shield is important to your deck, but it's a big 60 card deck.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: serprex on May 29, 2013, 11:01:20 pm
It seems annoying to make explicit counters. It's much nicer when countering is an emergent property. I like the idea of selecting a card which will always be drawn in the first hand, this could even be restricted to pillars to aid trio decks which would greatly appreciate being able to have one pillar guaranteed for their minority element

Another idea on how to enhance possibilities without creating "welp, they decided to explicitly 'soft counter' the core of my deck" situations: allow allocating a small amount of initial quanta. Let's say three. That'd allow an unupped deck to not have to have air pillars if they want to sprinkle air weapon into their deck (they'd start with some) or an upped entropy deck to have a few lycanthropes

I also like the idea of being able to make your mark into a pendulum mark

It seems this change could be used to bring enhancement to the game to open up non mono play besides rainbow decks which are another thing altogether since they're based off of tripling one's overall quanta

As the game develops, the weaknesses of elements recesses and only makes a mono deck more powerful. There are twelve elements, any change should hope to foster one not restricting themselves to 8.3% of them (Which I suppose my idea of initial quanta sort of supports only having one type of pillar, so it's arguably misguided)
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: OldTrees on May 29, 2013, 11:52:21 pm
It's much nicer when countering is an emergent property.
Nicely phrased, I think I will borrow it.
Title: Re: The trial
Post by: andre_wb on May 30, 2013, 02:44:22 pm
The trial itself I think it's a great idea! However, I am a little concerned about this prize of a counter mark. It may be too overpower. But I will wait for the beta test, if it fits well with the game I'll be grateful to be a part of it!  :D
blarg: