Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

News and Announcements => Patch Notes and Development News => Topic started by: zanzarino on December 19, 2012, 05:02:17 AM

Title: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 19, 2012, 05:02:17 AM
1.32 is now live.

New cards (http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html (http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html)):
Dry spell / Desiccation (Inspired by Tiko)
Graviton Salvager (inspired by Moomoose)
Phase Salvager (inspired by Moomoose)

New art by vrt for:
Chrysaora
Shrieker
Vampire

Balance:
Thunderstorm now inflicts 2 damage, cost increased to 3/2
Shards are not "other" cards anymore and cost quanta of the appropriate element
Shard of patience bonus is now +2|+2 for any creature. +5|+5 for water creatures under water (flooded area)
Shard of wisdom now grants a +4|+0 bonus to any creature, immortals also gain spell damage, cost increased to 3/2
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
Graviton Mercenary cost decreased to 3  :gravity, upped stats increased to 4/7

UI:
Optimized graphics (smoother, more responsive interface)

Current version 1.327:
Fixed issue with connection the the pvp server - again
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: n00b on December 19, 2012, 05:03:02 AM
Amazing, thank you.

EDIT: You had mentioned Trials in an earlier thread you made here, will that be implemented soon (patch-wise) as well?

(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/7509/gsalv.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img846/9388/dryspell.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img171/8403/psalv.png)

(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/713/chrysoara.png)
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/707/shrieker.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img585/1695/vampt.png)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7972/tstorm.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/2769/sop.png)
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/60/sowj.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img441/6504/sorz.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img13/44/sodvw.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img547/8774/sog.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img189/7053/sosac.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/9596/sov.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/7540/sosee.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img94/5561/sofo.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img703/8420/sobe.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img545/2606/soi.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img547/9354/sofr.png)

Sorry for the non-perfect cropping, but eh.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: MystiK_ on December 19, 2012, 05:03:34 AM
Nerdgasm. (:
New art is freakin' badass!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on December 19, 2012, 05:03:58 AM
Merry Chirstmas!!! :D thanks a lot!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on December 19, 2012, 05:04:20 AM
:D What we have all been waiting for, MOAR UPDATES!!!

Thank you for everything you do, knowing that you don't have to do it, and this is on your own time for no profit.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Skotadi Phobos on December 19, 2012, 05:04:37 AM
Greatest day ever.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 19, 2012, 05:04:57 AM
<3 Zanz
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on December 19, 2012, 05:05:24 AM
Merry xnas!!! :D thanks a lot!!

Xnas gifts to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 19, 2012, 05:05:57 AM
Derpin' around on the comp when a new patch appears...
(http://i.imgur.com/ifP42.gif)

So happy :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 19, 2012, 05:08:31 AM
If I were a woman, I'd have your babies.  As it is, I'm still willing to try! :p  Thanks a lot, zanz! :)  Looking forward to this and more of the same!  I love new card updates, and vrt has made some pretty good art in the past, so that should be great as well.

Just out of curiosity, and I know it's off-topic, but since your attention is probably here for awhile, the last season league is still waiting for reward codes, and the season ending in a few days will need them as well.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 05:11:34 AM
Today can't get any better.  And not just because there isn't the time for it to do so.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on December 19, 2012, 05:12:41 AM
More cards + great vrt art are always a welcome addition to the game. Thanks Zanz!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Hyroen on December 19, 2012, 05:14:04 AM
I had a feeling zanz would be back for festive cheer and gifts! Hurrah!

Much love! <3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: justaburd on December 19, 2012, 05:17:06 AM
Now that we have dry spell, can we please get some sort of buff for tstorm?


Edit: other posts
here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45197.msg1023687.html#msg1023687)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheAccuso on December 19, 2012, 05:22:20 AM
yabadabadoo!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 05:24:32 AM
This made my day :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: OldTrees on December 19, 2012, 05:25:51 AM
Another good update. Can't wait to see all the feature/cards/changes.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Laxadarap on December 19, 2012, 05:35:08 AM
In, just so I can be on this historic thrad
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 05:47:05 AM
Now that we have dry spell, can we please get some sort of buff for tstorm?

I'd like to see this too....
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 19, 2012, 05:47:28 AM
*Clap Clap*
But what about SoF nerf?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 05:47:47 AM
Now that we have dry spell, can we please get some sort of buff for tstorm?

I'd like to see this too....
Patience, patience...  :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on December 19, 2012, 05:50:14 AM
I have a theory. I think Zanz waited so long for this next update because people were banging on about how inactive he is.
Zanz = ultimate troll.

-

I PRAISE YOU, ZANZARINO, THE GOD OF ELEMENTS!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 19, 2012, 05:51:56 AM
Quote
More will come...

Have patience! :p  SoF nerf will probably come.  We waited a long time for 1.32, and more things will probably be done.  Just as an example, when the new shards were progress (was that 1.30 or 1.31? whatever) Zanz expanded the scope of it probably half a dozen times, and kept tweaking it as he went; it was in the trainer for like 2 months while he added things and fine-tuned them.  For instance, when shard of bravery was in trainer, it would draw even if your opponent couldn't, and it was possible to build instosis-like decks with about a 3 ttw, so Zanz added that clause to block that.  Things like that might happen here as well, although I haven't really thought of a way to break dry spell in half yet :p  I can think of a lot of really funny things to do with it, involving fractals or bone walls or aflatoxin or things like that, though.

Also, the last time Zanz posted, he was talking about something he called "The Trials", so we can look forward to that maybe as well :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 19, 2012, 05:57:09 AM
hooray zanz and congrats tiko :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: plastiqe on December 19, 2012, 06:01:22 AM
It's fantastic to see you back zanz, you've been missed.  The first new card looks cool and I'm happy that you chose a card from the Armory.

That said, I do hope you take a good look at the current state of the game.  Many players, myself included, have become disenfranchised with Shards.  Powerful "other" cards and a few very strong deck types have diluted the metagame to the point where it's not much fun to play anymore.

Well, I'm very much looking forward to see what else you've got in store for us.  Thanks for 1.32 news just in time for Christmas.  : )
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: inthisroom on December 19, 2012, 06:03:16 AM
Thank you for everything you do, knowing that you don't have to do it, and this is on your own time for no profit.

I couldn't have said it better, thank you for creating - and always improving - this game I love.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 19, 2012, 06:05:36 AM
Appropriate new card's name is appropriate. Thank you Zanz :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 19, 2012, 06:23:57 AM
Also:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Opsinis on December 19, 2012, 06:40:37 AM
Thanks, because this is rather kind of awesome.
I might just steal the Physalia art.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Tiko on December 19, 2012, 06:52:54 AM
Whoa, never imagined I'd ever see this.. glad you found it a worthy addition to the game, I feel really honored.

Thanks, Zanz; it's nice to have you around again. And a big thanks to you, vrt, as well.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Anthraxx on December 19, 2012, 07:38:57 AM
Xmass came early ;)
Title: R: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on December 19, 2012, 07:59:53 AM
It's wonderful to see you around again!
Can't wait to see the new cards and the old ones with the new artworks!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on December 19, 2012, 08:22:06 AM
Yeesh!
I'm late, so what, i'm still happy.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: nilsieboy on December 19, 2012, 08:32:25 AM
Hooray!
Great to see that you're back zanz :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Naesala on December 19, 2012, 09:00:03 AM
Wooo!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: yee on December 19, 2012, 10:02:03 AM
Yay, we might have new update soon :)

So water is going to get mass CC card. This, Patience and Floding with some cheap water creatures might greate good deck.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: paulyhart on December 19, 2012, 10:09:06 AM
i like it when things get upgraded. thank you zan. i am very pleased with your continuing progress with the game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 19, 2012, 12:37:55 PM
looking trough trainer to find the new card, didn't find it yet but i know i'll like it!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 12:40:37 PM
I almost thought the game was considered discontinued. I'm really happy to see you didn't abandon it and will continue growing.
The game has much, much growing potential and I would really like to see it.

More will come...

I will be waiting for this too  ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 19, 2012, 12:54:26 PM
looking trough trainer to find the new card, didn't find it yet but i know i'll like it!!
It is, look in the bazaar.
@Zanz, thank you for coming back and updating the game. Merry Christmas <3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: hwy on December 19, 2012, 01:00:47 PM
The best news I had heard today.I am so glad to see you  !!!!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 19, 2012, 01:40:43 PM
A NEW CARD FOR WATER. I THOUGHT THIS DAY WAS NOT GOING TO COME ANYMORE.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: PlayerOa on December 19, 2012, 01:42:26 PM
New update, I'm close to speechless now. Wonderful! :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marsu on December 19, 2012, 01:48:47 PM
Yeah! <3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: EmeraldTiger on December 19, 2012, 02:03:22 PM
yay! its a happy day!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: joelas on December 19, 2012, 02:05:04 PM
cant wait for this hoping it will come soon
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: FlareGlutox on December 19, 2012, 02:25:01 PM
Hooray!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 19, 2012, 02:34:54 PM
looking trough trainer to find the new card, didn't find it yet but i know i'll like it!!
It is, look in the bazaar.
@Zanz, thank you for coming back and updating the game. Merry Christmas <3

I'm still not seeing any new cards or artwork in the trainer, even in the bazaar.  Haven't tried clearing cache yet .

Can someone that can actually see the cards post the element and description of the card for those of us in the dark?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UTAlan on December 19, 2012, 02:44:39 PM
I'm still not seeing any new cards or artwork in the trainer, even in the bazaar.  Haven't tried clearing cache yet .

Can someone that can actually see the cards post the element and description of the card for those of us in the dark?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45198.0.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 19, 2012, 03:05:13 PM
I'm still not seeing any new cards or artwork in the trainer, even in the bazaar.  Haven't tried clearing cache yet .

Can someone that can actually see the cards post the element and description of the card for those of us in the dark?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45198.0.html

Thanks.  Is the new art for vampires, etc available somewhere as well?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 19, 2012, 03:10:10 PM
What can I say just lovely :D, but next time say I won't be able or I take a little brake from elements expect me with a new patch in december if I get time. That is all we need a single centens, that is all we need to be satisfied instead of months of waiting when you don't know if you still care about this game.

otherwise lovely :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 03:17:00 PM
I'm still not seeing any new cards or artwork in the trainer, even in the bazaar.  Haven't tried clearing cache yet .

Can someone that can actually see the cards post the element and description of the card for those of us in the dark?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45198.0.html

Thanks.  Is the new art for vampires, etc available somewhere as well?

Clear your Cache and reopen the Trainer  :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on December 19, 2012, 03:28:21 PM
I'm still not seeing any new cards or artwork in the trainer, even in the bazaar.  Haven't tried clearing cache yet .

Can someone that can actually see the cards post the element and description of the card for those of us in the dark?

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45198.0.html

Thanks.  Is the new art for vampires, etc available somewhere as well?
(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/elements/256/vamp.png)(http://vrt-designs.com/stuff/elements/256/chrysa_256.png)(http://vrt-designs.com/stuff/elements/256/shriek256.png)
Vampire
Chrysaora
Shrieker

All these artworks were made by vrt, this is his thread. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38357.0.html)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 19, 2012, 04:11:02 PM
I really like the art on all of those, particularly the chrysaora.  I think the vampire art looks more suited for gargoyle, but it's still pretty cool looking all the same.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: coinich on December 19, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
Picked a fine day to stop by indeed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 19, 2012, 04:42:29 PM
Hory Shiet.  A Christmas wish come true!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on December 19, 2012, 05:08:18 PM
This is awesome!!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 19, 2012, 05:24:34 PM
Updated OP with shard redesign now available in the trainer.

Non-optimal order of actions:
1 - freak out
2 - provide feedback
3 - test new version

Optimal order of action
1 - test new version
2 - freak out
3 - provide feedback

Thank for the feedback and thank you to anyone that will test the new version
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 19, 2012, 05:29:42 PM
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHH
So Great, Awesome, can't be better :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 05:31:21 PM
Time to see Shards then...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 19, 2012, 05:31:35 PM
Question: Will the Shards continue to remain in Other even after balancing issues are taken into consideration or will they be added to their respective Elements?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 05:32:24 PM

1- Freak out
2- Freak out
3- Freak out
4- Freak out
5- Freak out

6- Currently testing
7- Will give feedback as soon as I test
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 19, 2012, 05:33:55 PM
If this works: added to their respective elements

Question: Will the Shards continue to remain in Other even after balancing issues are taken into consideration or will they be added to their respective Elements?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on December 19, 2012, 05:34:05 PM
Very interesting change, can't say if I like it or dislike it yet. Pretty much every deck that uses shards must be completely redesigned (or even scrapped).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 19, 2012, 05:41:11 PM
This is a really really good , very smart solution!!!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
That SoP buff... Fractal Sparks returns!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 05:43:22 PM
Just a small thing, but could updated Shards be added to the "All Cards" Function of the Trainer?

Also, I'm a tad worried about redone SoPa, especially with Spark in mind...  It's essentially Mass Growth for the cost of 3/2 Growths...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 19, 2012, 05:45:20 PM
If this works: added to their respective elements

Question: Will the Shards continue to remain in Other even after balancing issues are taken into consideration or will they be added to their respective Elements?
Yeah this would be great for people posting new decks after 1.32 is released to avoid Element classification confusion. 

However, if it requires you to change the card code just to make that possible then I can't imagine how long it'd take to readjust every thread in the forums to make note of that.  Unless of course there's some kind of Admin magic that I'm not aware of here.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 05:48:27 PM
I noticed:
1- SoP buff is applied BEFORE the creatures attack, so Spark and poisoned creatures (1 or 2 poison) don't die. Sparktal will now be -more- interesting.
2- SoP says "Creatures in flooded area gain +5/+5". That does NOT apply to Malignant Cell (it's well said in the OP). Tested with upped and unupped SoP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Bloom on December 19, 2012, 05:50:00 PM

1- Freak out
2- Freak out
3- Freak out
4- Freak out
5- Freak out

6- Currently testing
7- Will give feedback as soon as I test
Greatest day ever.

Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Luminous on December 19, 2012, 05:54:17 PM
Shard that arent in other breaks the hall theme.

Dont change it if possible, because there should be strategy between other and elements

Monos would be OP like that
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 19, 2012, 05:56:05 PM
one thought with making shards elemental rather than 'other' could be SoG losing some of its luster. it was a good source of healing for many decks, but life already has many healing options, and it may seem a bit redundant now.  other than that, i love the idea and think most will turn out fine.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Shard that arent in other breaks the hall theme.

Dont change it if possible, because there should be strategy between other and elements
How does it break the theme?

Personally, I like the change, although the added effects can probably be dropped now that they've been given an elemental cost.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 05:57:09 PM
Shard that arent in other breaks the hall theme.

Dont change it if possible, because there should be strategy between other and elements

Monos would be OP like that
SoFo was game breaking and the other ones are cheap...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on December 19, 2012, 05:58:30 PM
Shard that arent in other breaks the hall theme.

Dont change it if possible, because there should be strategy between other and elements

Monos would be OP like that

Uhm...myeah, like monos can't use shards if they belong to other.

I like the change, it will affect most of the decks in "Shards the Game" except maybe SoSe bows.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on December 19, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
It affects SoSe bows too, since it will be harder to fuel your SoSes with your quantum pillars, so you can't spam SoSes since they require entropy only.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Luminous on December 19, 2012, 06:03:30 PM
You can use shards but with an elemental cost, you can also make a reward for quest, OTHER section would be nothing without them.

Basically, monos are meant to do things only related to their elements. Shards were belong to OTHER, not monos. Here's the theme-breaking.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 06:03:46 PM
I noticed:
1- SoP buff is applied BEFORE the creatures attack, so Spark and poisoned creatures (1 or 2 poison) don't die. Sparktal will now be -more- interesting.
2- SoP says "Creatures in flooded area gain +5/+5". That does NOT apply to Malignant Cell (it's well said in the OP). Tested with upped and unupped SoP.
... Continue
3- There is still a SoBr bug where you deckout if you had to end with 0 cards after using the shard.
4- Mono Death SoSa will still be strong, but mono *insert element here* with SoSa will be changed too little, with :death addition for SoSa cast. It needs to be 1-2 cost higher IMO-
5- SoSe wasn't that broken and SoSebows are pretty fun to play with and against to. Reduce cost to 1-2 please?

Will continue later
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 19, 2012, 06:05:31 PM
agreed (with fippe) especially with the nature of SoSe being rainbow driven inherently.  so life and entropy shards taking some type of step back in theory, any others pop out (aside from gravity)?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 19, 2012, 06:07:19 PM
The thunderstorm change seems good; it was a rarely used card before, and this is a good way to buff it.  It compares fairly reasonably to pandemonium, rain of fire, and dry spell, and I can see it getting some use, now.

The shards change makes me a little nervous, but we'll see how that plays out.  In some cases it will be an enormous improvement, particularly shard of focus, but in others, it will make the card nigh unusable, while a few others will notice little to no change.

wisdom: basically no change, since you needed immortal creatures anyway.  Other than flying glories, doesn't really nerf any decks, and that deck can just play aether mark in that case

freedom: nerfs a few decks, but other than maybe immorush with seraphs/phoenixes and freedom, mostly just nerfs silly decks

darkness: Small nerf to a few decks, but most decks using shard of the void used darkness mark anyway to speed it up.  Only deck I can think of that this nerfs hard is my SS/miracle/purple nymph deck, and that's a very specific and rarely used deck anyway

death: Since shard of sacrifice costs 0, nothing changed with this shard, and it's one of the worst offenders of all the shards.  I'd probably recommend increasing the cost; even something like 3 should be good enough, preventing nova/SN abuse to play it.

earth: Shard of integrity was a fairly narrow card already, so it didn't see a lot of use.  With shards costing elemental quanta, I suspect this card will become pretty much unused, but I'll see if I can create something that still makes use of it.  The days of 6 nova/6 SoI/18 any shard will be done, and that's a good thing.  Decks using shard of integrity will probably have to be duos or trios, now.  For example, something like earth pends + fire mark + SoI + SoB + whatever for you golem.

entropy: Pretty small nerf, since you were likely to be using a rainbow and/or lots of entropy anyway.  It just means the SoSe will come down a turn or two later, which it probably would've anyway since you need to clear your hand to fill it up with that shard

fire: Prevents certain stupid OTK decks, which is a good thing.  This change should be good/mostly unnoticed.

gravity: GREAT!  Shard of focus will no longer roflstomp the meta.

life: Shard of gratitude will probably get very little use, even less so than now, especially as life has empathic bond already, but it will still have use in some creatureless decks that need healing

light: Probably a good change, but we'll see.  It should also increase the use of the heal card, which is a good thing.

time: Very good change; prevents a lot of really stupid OTK decks like instosis and mummy/rt/SoR decks, both of which are bad for the meta.  Probably one of the best changes, after shard of focus.

water: Not sure about this one; on the one hand, it's harder to play SoP, but on the other, it's much stronger.  Time will tell on this one.

I think any balance issues at this point should be solvable by simply adjusting the quanta costs on the cards.  Overall looks good; will playtest over holidays.


As an aside, any chance of future other cards, along the power levels of shield, short sword, etc?  I like other cards, and would be sad to see the 'other' tab of my collection so empty.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 06:11:42 PM
fire: Prevents certain stupid OTK decks, which is a good thing.  This change should be good/mostly unnoticed.
Dazzling Dolls is crying. I had so much fun with 4 TTW OTKs in PVP 2 against people who plays all the cards they can...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 19, 2012, 06:12:47 PM
death: Since shard of sacrifice costs 0, nothing changed with this shard, and it's one of the worst offenders of all the shards.  I'd probably recommend increasing the cost; even something like 3 should be good enough, preventing nova/SN abuse to play it.
SoSa actually costs 1 :death now.  Nova/SN abuse is possible, but it's significantly less able to be abused than its previous form.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything dragons wrote.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 06:13:40 PM
You can use shards but with an elemental cost, you can also make a reward for quest, OTHER section would be nothing without them.

Basically, monos are meant to do things only related to their elements. Shards were belong to OTHER, not monos. Here's the theme-breaking.
Other, in my opinion, shouldn't have been such a major section in a game dedicated to elemental affiliation.

What's wrong with changing the theme though?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Luminous on December 19, 2012, 06:17:11 PM
You can use shards but with an elemental cost, you can also make a reward for quest, OTHER section would be nothing without them.

Basically, monos are meant to do things only related to their elements. Shards were belong to OTHER, not monos. Here's the theme-breaking.
Other, in my opinion, shouldn't have been such a major section in a game dedicated to elemental affiliation.

What's wrong with changing the theme though?

Other than theme, will make games lot harder. Farming wont be an option. Even with shards, you need lotsa towers. Thats changing the whole system, and making it difficulter. Just change a few shards, specially sofo spams. Make sofo and sosac to be in monos, and others, let'em go.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on December 19, 2012, 06:20:25 PM
Stupid question... where are you guys testing the changes?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 06:21:47 PM
You can use shards but with an elemental cost, you can also make a reward for quest, OTHER section would be nothing without them.

Basically, monos are meant to do things only related to their elements. Shards were belong to OTHER, not monos. Here's the theme-breaking.
Other, in my opinion, shouldn't have been such a major section in a game dedicated to elemental affiliation.

What's wrong with changing the theme though?

Other than theme, will make games lot harder. Farming wont be an option. Even with shards, you need lotsa towers. Thats changing the whole system, and making it difficulter. Just change a few shards, specially sofo spams. Make sofo and sosac to be in monos, and others, let'em go.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing.  It just changes the gameplay.  Perhaps for the best, especially since there should be less emphasis on Shard being used in tandem.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 19, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
Stupid question... where are you guys testing the changes?

http://elementsthegame.com/trainer
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on December 19, 2012, 06:23:31 PM
Stupid question... where are you guys testing the changes?

http://elementsthegame.com/trainer

Thanks. I forgot to reload >.<
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 19, 2012, 06:28:52 PM
I think thunderstorm is a bit to cheep compared to rain of fire. upped cost 1 and upped rain of fire cost 5. Rain of fire deals 3 damage to enemy creatures and thunderstorm 2.

Sems like Bal,sop and fractal is to good I'm able to beat fg's in 6turns. Plus I get to good win rate 70% after 10 games.
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4858/skarmavbild20121219kl19.png)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6rv 6rv 6rv 6rv 6rv 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 809 809 809 809 809 809 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 8pp

Managed to make 5 turn win against fg.
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4858/skarmavbild20121219kl19.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 19, 2012, 06:36:21 PM
Wait, will be the shards' deck code change?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 06:39:22 PM
Wait, will be the shards' deck code change?
I don't think so, because you're only editing parts of the card, not making a new one. So the code is just moved from the Other array to the respective element ones. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 19, 2012, 06:47:45 PM
Doesn't each element have respective code prefixes or something though? Likewise however, I'm probably talking out of my buttocks.

I absolutely love these changes. I was admittedly a tad disappointed upon realizing that arena farming will become more difficult, as this breaks a lot of mainstay decks. But aside from that, this is probably the best possible thing you could have done to rebalance this game. Thank you Zanz :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 06:51:42 PM
Actually, the thing I'm worried about also is the deck images all over the forum that will now become broken if the card codes are changed
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on December 19, 2012, 06:52:22 PM
Updated OP with shard redesign now available in the trainer.

Non-optimal order of actions:
1 - freak out
2 - provide feedback
3 - test new version

Optimal order of action
1 - test new version
2 - freak out
3 - provide feedback

Thank for the feedback and thank you to anyone that will test the new version

Testing some of the new Shards, Shard of Readiness is correct on-card but uses random quanta when cast.  Meaning, the card lists 3 :time for casting cost but upon click SoR in-hand (no quanta change, per standard spell mechanics) then selecting target, 3 :other quanta is consumed.

Also, regarding SoR, when clicking SoR in-hand and then "Cancel" button, no quanta is consumed (spell mechanics, standard) and then 3 :time quanta is refunded / generated.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 19, 2012, 06:53:13 PM
Actually, the thing I'm worried about also is the deck images all over the forum that will now become broken.
If the codes are changed, yes that's a problem.  Otherwise it just requires one of our admin friends to update the deck image generator, like they should have done for Psion :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on December 19, 2012, 06:56:29 PM
Actually, the thing I'm worried about also is the deck images all over the forum that will now become broken if the card codes are changed

Seems to me it should be possible to do a controlled and refined global forum "Find and Replace" by a moderator of forums (or some such person) for the changed card codes - if the codes change.  At least, I think this addresses the intended meaning of you comment, Rutarete...?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 07:01:35 PM
Actually, the thing I'm worried about also is the deck images all over the forum that will now become broken if the card codes are changed

Seems to me it should be possible to do a controlled and refined global forum "Find and Replace" by a moderator of forums (or some such person) for the changed card codes - if the codes change.  At least, I think this addresses the intended meaning of you comment, Rutarete...?
Yeah.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 19, 2012, 07:03:35 PM
Wow, this renders some classic decks unusable.  SPLAT, Instosis, etc.  Pretty exciting.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 07:05:38 PM
Something to consider - Do the Shards being in specific elements now affect any thoughts about having FGs with them?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on December 19, 2012, 07:24:17 PM
YEA!!! Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Zso_Zso on December 19, 2012, 07:29:51 PM
Something to consider - Do the Shards being in specific elements now affect any thoughts about having FGs with them?

AFAIK, only 2 FGs had shards: Osiris and Akebono, both using SoFo, but both have gravity quanta available, so it does not really change them.

Some major decks will be broken, such as Instosis, others need significant tweaks, such as SPLAT can only work using the pillarless version. Need to do some testing to see the depth of the changes...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jen-i on December 19, 2012, 07:38:57 PM
Overall I'm very pleased with the change! Just a couple comments - it does virtually nothing to change the Shard Golem decks that are around. I was still getting consistent 5 ttw with a version of the deck. I love the effect on Focus, Sacrifice, Readiness and others. However I think it removes nearly any usefulness from Gratitude - I'd suggest a small change to the card - instead of providing healing have Shard of Gratitude increase all healing effects on the owner by 3, 5 if their mark is :life - this gives is good synergy with other life healing cards - as well as light's healing arsenal, it makes Sanctuary a beast, but forces a :life :light duo.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 8pm
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 19, 2012, 08:01:30 PM
Overall I'm very pleased with the change! Just a couple comments - it does virtually nothing to change the Shard Golem decks that are around.

You will now need 5 earth quanta to form a golem, correct?  Seems like it will kill the shard golem decks like you posted above.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on December 19, 2012, 08:13:55 PM
Can we get all the Shards added to the 'All Cards' button?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Vangelios on December 19, 2012, 08:17:00 PM
Ah! Zans, Very excellent and awaited these updates, I was starting to get sad about metagames.
Mayan calendar marks the end of the age of shards. but the beginning  of monodecks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragtom on December 19, 2012, 08:19:25 PM
with shards no longer costing  :rainbow, i'd like to see quantum pendulums added.
mostly because of SoSe :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: esran on December 19, 2012, 08:26:03 PM
this will change everything, and remove a ton of super OP decks.
i look forward to it, but im gonna farm that plat while i still can lol.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 19, 2012, 08:32:36 PM
Overall I'm very pleased with the change! Just a couple comments - it does virtually nothing to change the Shard Golem decks that are around. I was still getting consistent 5 ttw with a version of the deck. I love the effect on Focus, Sacrifice, Readiness and others. However I think it removes nearly any usefulness from Gratitude - I'd suggest a small change to the card - instead of providing healing have Shard of Gratitude increase all healing effects on the owner by 3, 5 if their mark is :life - this gives is good synergy with other life healing cards - as well as light's healing arsenal, it makes Sanctuary a beast, but forces a :life :light duo.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s4 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s5 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 8pm

If shard of integrity costs 4  :earth, that deck will need 2-3 turns to even play a shard of integrity.  That'll slow the deck down by at least 1-2 turns, since right now you usually get a golem out turn 1 or turn 2.

If shard of sacrifice does cost 1  :death now, then I see less problems with it.  It will prevent splashing it in any old deck you want like you can now.  You could still use your mark to produce death quanta or something like that, but at least then there's a design cost, and it's exactly the same as using your mark to splash fire for explosion or darkness for nightmare or aether for lightning or whatever else you're doing, which means less quanta for your main element. 

Interestingly, while the divinity/sacrifice changes kills the traditional, superior splat deck, it doesn't kill pillarless splat much at all.  You'd have to swap out shards of divinity, but you could leave the rest of the deck pretty much intact.  You could use something like sundials or holy lights or various utility cards in their place like purify.

Shards of focus, readiness, and sacrifice should be largely fixed, and those were the ones warping the game the worst in their current incarnations.  Shard of focus was in all kinds of decks that it simply didn't belong in, and I'm really looking forward to this one.  It also stops instosis, which means people won't be able to sleepwalk their way through FG wins anymore.  It does hurt a few other decks, like using SoR in monolife with mitosis/dragon, or using whatever nymph + SoR, but even there you could run a duo with time. 

I'm not yet completely convinced that changing the others would be for the best, but I'm willing to give it a try.  Shard of patience is still making me nervous, in large part because of decks like the ball lightning/fractal monoaether with SoP off a water mark deck that blacksmith posted earlier.  I just don't want to relegate some of the other shards to the scrapheap.  As someone else mentioned earlier, what if we moved those three worst offending shards to their respective elements, perhaps renaming them to something unshardlike, and created new shards to replace them?  That, of course, requires more work, but might be the best solution.  Having 'other' cards is not a bad thing for the game; it's when those other cards are broken in half because they are other and not in a specific element that it's a problem.  Think what would happen if pulverizer, or eternity, or owl's eye, or steam machine cost 'other',  They're balanced cards in an element, but would be ridiculous if they cost other quanta.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 19, 2012, 08:48:12 PM
Thunderstorm will definitely need a cost increase now, but at least it's finally getting a buff :3

Shard changes look nice on paper, but I haven't tested yet so I won't say anything else.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jen-i on December 19, 2012, 08:48:31 PM
Overall I'm very pleased with the change! Just a couple comments - it does virtually nothing to change the Shard Golem decks that are around.

You will now need 5 earth quanta to form a golem, correct?  Seems like it will kill the shard golem decks like you posted above.

I was assuming that when Zanz told us to test things in the trainer he meant that the quanta costs there were accurate - the deck I posted has all 1 cost cards other than the nova - at least according to the trainer
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 19, 2012, 08:56:40 PM
Overall I'm very pleased with the change! Just a couple comments - it does virtually nothing to change the Shard Golem decks that are around.

You will now need 5 earth quanta to form a golem, correct?  Seems like it will kill the shard golem decks like you posted above.

I was assuming that when Zanz told us to test things in the trainer he meant that the quanta costs there were accurate - the deck I posted has all 1 cost cards other than the nova - at least according to the trainer

Damn, you are right.  Shard of Integrity now only costs 1 :earth ??

Shard of Bravery is now only 1  :fire

Shard of Focus is down to 4  :gravity

Any other quanta cost changes?  Can we add these changes to the first post as well?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: n00b on December 19, 2012, 08:57:20 PM
Just thought I'd ask, but when do you think the Trials will be coming out? Are you still planning on doing them?

Also, you may wanna unsticky 1.31 and stick this instead :)

-n00b
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 19, 2012, 09:04:41 PM
Can we get all the Shards added to the 'All Cards' button?

Please.

It really is a pain to test in the trainer and have to go through extra steps to get all of the upped shards
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on December 19, 2012, 09:15:46 PM
So, would this change mean that shards will be allowed in the tourneys?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 19, 2012, 09:24:04 PM
So, would this change mean that shards will be allowed in the tourneys?

I'd still rather not. Even with balancing, something about them just feels...Incredibly un-game like.

So SoB costs 1 :fire? That seems a bit too powerful, 3 cards drawn for 1 quanta. Compare to Precognition, upped costs 1 :time to draw just 1 card...I suppose the balance is in the fact that you draw cards for your opponent as well, but something about that still just feels off to me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 09:26:05 PM
So, would this change mean that shards will be allowed in the tourneys?
I think that they'll likely still be banned for most tourneys.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 19, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Damn, you are right.  Shard of Integrity now only costs 1 :earth ??

Shard of Bravery is now only 1  :fire

Shard of Focus is down to 4  :gravity

Any other quanta cost changes?  Can we add these changes to the first post as well?

Wow, interesting... I wasn't able to get into the trainer yet (said it had too many connections for the server to handle :p which i suppose is encouraging) but that will definitely keep shard golem decks alive.  They're more a problem in league where reflective shields are banned due to the purify bug, so the best counter to it is unavailable in league play.

Speaking of which, that would be a good thing to look into for v1.32  When purify is cast on a player with reflective/jade shield, one player will see the purify reflect and the other player will not, causing a desync.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 19, 2012, 09:58:25 PM
Sounds like you're going to the wrong url dragon. Are you sure you're going to www.elementsthegame.com/trainer (http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer)?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: justaburd on December 19, 2012, 10:07:47 PM
Now that we have dry spell, can we please get some sort of buff for tstorm?

YES.

Now... SoV and flooding? XD
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: teffy on December 19, 2012, 10:49:17 PM
Yeah, a new patch for Christmas :) Thanks for that.

zanzarino ,what are the reasons for this quanta cost change of the Shards ?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on December 19, 2012, 11:05:34 PM
I'm sorry Zanz, but I personally hate the shard changes. I think that there are other ways to balance shards, which doesn't resort to drastic measures such as this.
However, someone wise told me to test before I freak out, so I have tested and propose, if you insist on keeping shards this way, how to balance them.




Now I don't expect for you to do exactly what I want on my command (if you did, you'd change the shards back :P) but could you please consider my ideas Zanz? (Also, Graviton Mercenary needs a buff. ;) )
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on December 19, 2012, 11:38:53 PM
Shard change. Not sure if want. Some of them costs more than the other.
Guess we can't have on-average power shards. Like a weapon, some are cheap while the others not so much.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Dm on December 19, 2012, 11:43:15 PM
Slight SoFo nerf. ME LIKES.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Helston on December 19, 2012, 11:59:17 PM
*Is freaking out over shard changes*

If I get a chance over the next few days, I'm going to be like a kid in a candy store with deck testing.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2012, 12:52:21 AM
I prefere the original Diseccation style, with the unupped one targetting your own creatures. It gives more strategical usage yo the unupped meta.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Laxadarap on December 20, 2012, 12:58:40 AM
Slight SoFo nerf. ME LIKES.

Huge Sofo nerf imo. 
Quote
ME LIKES.

Honestly though, the main reason sofo was super OP (other than massive card advantage, which I still disagree with) is that an early sofo is almost impossible to deal with.  Gl getting this out 0th turn and keeping your momentum (no pun intended).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 01:58:42 AM
AAAAAAAAh and please don't forget the Reflective Shield + Purify bug, one of the most important.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 20, 2012, 02:00:29 AM
He just posted on that topic a few minutes ago saying it would be fixed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on December 20, 2012, 02:10:47 AM
Shard change to monoelement is meh for me. I personally liked the theme of cards that indirectly favored a certain element, and I agree with Annele that there are other ways to balance shards, such as forcing them to use one type of any quanta as opposed to any quanta you want. I don't think every shard needed the balance change, either (a few choice ones like SoFo and SoR maybe, but a blanket nerf comes across as a bit awkward and forced to me.)

Just my 2 :electrum .
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: furballdn on December 20, 2012, 02:38:48 AM
As of this post, here is what I find:

Still not a fan of dessication, but seeing as how t-storm was buffed, it is better. The problem with quanta gain and acceleration is that it is only really useful early in the game. Later on, it's not as effective.

Changing SoP to water but still have it increase HP will probably make fractal sparks broken.
SoD to light I'm ambivalent about. Light has even more healing, but it also stops decks like mono fires from free healing.
SoG feels like it's really treading on bond. Already shifting life mark made it too focused in life, an element with plenty of healing, but this change makes it even more so.
SoR loses its more creative uses with cards like steam machine and other mono ability cards. Not sure if that was a good idea if it was just aimed at instant mitosis.
Nerfed SoSa to 1 :death. That's fine. The problem is, it still has an elemental punish instead of elemental reward.
SoV to :darkness. SoV doesn't really synergize with any darkness cards very well, and it was already a pretty niche card that mainly fit into zen or other stall/stallbreakers.
SoSe to 3 :entropy might be a pretty big nerf. In a mono or duo entropy deck, random cards won't be much of use. In an SNbow, 3 :entropy is probably too much to spare for 3 random cards.
SoFo moved into mono gravity. It requires 4 :gravity, but it still feels like it might be too powerful. 4 :gravity + 1 card + 3 turns = 1 black hole + 3 deflags
SoBe in fire. Well it certainly nerfed it, stopping nova/immo.
SoI nerf is pretty minimal. Most shard golem rush decks can easily get 1 :earth with nova, and even an :earth mark can summon it quickly. I do not think that this nerfed its speed.
SoW in :aether makes it even more situational and almost forces it to be used either in mono aether, or a complex impractical combo for it to funciton well.
SoFre to :air I'm ambivalent about.

Can has more PC pls?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: MystiK_ on December 20, 2012, 04:01:42 AM
Guess Dials SoSac is no longer viable
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 20, 2012, 04:04:26 AM
Why wouldn't it be?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 20, 2012, 04:07:23 AM
More than 130 replies in one day. Wow.
Any balancing is great, but I don't like some of these changes. Destroys many famous decks :( (though instosis was spared).

Why wouldn't it be?

I think he might mean SPlat (Pillar version)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Belligerence on December 20, 2012, 04:35:19 AM
:o New patch! Kinda small right now, but the new art is awesome and I like the shard changes.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 20, 2012, 04:48:48 AM
It seems that a lot of decks are going to be overhauled to work, if that is even possible.

Also, I have this bad feeling this is going to crank up mono capabilities, and leave duos in the dust... I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: MystiK_ on December 20, 2012, 05:51:21 AM
Well it is still viable but less effective due to the extra quanta usage now from SoSac. And SoD requires 2 :light while light quanta production only runs off the mark. And drawing with sundials is more risky.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 20, 2012, 06:19:46 AM
Changing other costs from :rainbow to :underworld would walk over far fewer decks than changing shards to in-element.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 20, 2012, 06:24:19 AM
Changing other costs from :rainbow to :underworld would walk over far fewer decks than changing shards to in-element.

You mean like:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42310.msg526470.html#msg526470
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 20, 2012, 06:27:20 AM
Changing other costs from :rainbow to :underworld would walk over far fewer decks than changing shards to in-element.

You mean like:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42310.msg526470.html#msg526470
Yes.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Kuroaitou on December 20, 2012, 06:28:31 AM
Had finals today - and I guess I missed out on all the fun talks, eh? ;)

That being said, great changes and updates, and most importantly, thank  you for updating some of the old art with vrt's treasures. Thank you to both zanz and especially vrt for 3 epic illustrations on three iconic elemental cards. ^^

Here's to testing Dry Spell and see how it works with Shard of Patience. >.>
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on December 20, 2012, 07:36:42 AM
Possible change instead of just the damage increase?
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267287/Thunderstorm.png)(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22267286/Lightning_Storm.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Vangelios on December 20, 2012, 08:01:23 AM
I think it thunderstorm should be more expensive, 4 :air and 3 :air for lightning storm
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 20, 2012, 09:38:39 AM
I like the shard changes, no more instosis, Pdials and Splat spamming.

These changes will make people be a lot more original, so the changes are great!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2012, 11:10:04 AM
I like the shard changes, no more instosis, Pdials and Splat spamming.

These changes will make people be a lot more original, so the changes are great!
SoSa still costs only 1 :death, so it can be nova'd. I hope it increases even if it's to 3-2 :death.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 20, 2012, 11:18:09 AM
I like the shard changes, no more instosis, Pdials and Splat spamming.

None of these decks have been hurt that much. In fact, the distance between these decks and "fun" shard decks has only grown.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2012, 11:33:22 AM
As of this post, here is what I find:

Still not a fan of dessication, but seeing as how t-storm was buffed, it is better. The problem with quanta gain and acceleration is that it is only really useful early in the game. Later on, it's not as effective.

Changing SoP to water but still have it increase HP will probably make fractal sparks broken. Yes, I have been testing it on FGs and it's powerful as hell. Had some 5-6 TTWs. An easy fix would be to cast SoP before the creatures attack or just making it kill the 0 HP creatures.
SoD to light I'm ambivalent about. Light has even more healing, but it also stops decks like mono fires from free healing. It can be reduced to 2-1  :light with the same effect, and it gives more usage possibility yo non mono :light decks.
SoG feels like it's really treading on bond. Already shifting life mark made it too focused in life, an element with plenty of healing, but this change makes it even more so. I think it can be reduced to 2-1  :life cost for more diversification too. Remember when they were key cards in old FG farmers?
SoR loses its more creative uses with cards like steam machine and other mono ability cards. Not sure if that was a good idea if it was just aimed at instant mitosis. There's people saying this actually makes Instosis stronger, as there can be changed 2 SNs for pillars and the  :air quanta doesn't mess up. If this was intended for Instosis nerf, I think it can be done better changing Silurian Dragon for a massive dragon style. I agree this makes it lose creativity in other decks, but if shards are gonna cost its element quanta I am sure this one can be reduced.
Nerfed SoSa to 1 :death. That's fine. The problem is, it still has an elemental punish instead of elemental reward. Agree, buy I don't dislike the mechanic. I even think it can cost more so it can't be Nova'd.
SoV to :darkness. SoV doesn't really synergize with any darkness cards very well, and it was already a pretty niche card that mainly fit into zen or other stall/stallbreakers.
SoSe to 3 :entropy might be a pretty big nerf. In a mono or duo entropy deck, random cards won't be much of use. In an SNbow, 3 :entropy is probably too much to spare for 3 random cards. Totally agree, it NEEDS TO cost less so it can be used in a easier way. SoSebows are very fun decks and this shard didn't need such a big nerf.
SoFo moved into mono gravity. It requires 4 :gravity, but it still feels like it might be too powerful. 4 :gravity + 1 card + 3 turns = 1 black hole + 3 deflags It stops turn 1 SoFos, that's the important thing. You need 2 SNs to cast them now and that's pretty fine to me.
SoBe in fire. Well it certainly nerfed it, stopping nova/immo.
SoI nerf is pretty minimal. Most shard golem rush decks can easily get 1 :earth with nova, and even an :earth mark can summon it quickly. I do not think that this nerfed its speed. Agree. A good addition to the card can be to consume the quanta that cost the combining shards.
SoW in :aether makes it even more situational and almost forces it to be used either in mono aether, or a complex impractical combo for it to funciton well. Yeah,  probably it could cost only 1 :aether upped and unupped, with the upgrade buff as more damage (reducing the unupped one).
SoFre to :air I'm ambivalent about.

Can has more PC pls? Soft PC please? There are several incredibly built ideas in the Armory.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 20, 2012, 03:56:57 PM
So, would this change mean that shards will be allowed in the tourneys?
I'd still rather not. Even with balancing, something about them just feels...Incredibly un-game like. So SoB costs 1 :fire? That seems a bit too powerful, 3 cards drawn for 1 quanta. Compare to Precognition, upped costs 1 :time to draw just 1 card...I suppose the balance is in the fact that you draw cards for your opponent as well, but something about that still just feels off to me.
Won't agree since this also cause opponent to draw cards+ you can't use it with cremations anymore.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 20, 2012, 03:58:35 PM
other art upgrades for consideration by zblader and moomoose respectively
(http://i.imgur.com/Azjiu.png) (http://i.imgur.com/JQq0C.png)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42954.msg535694.html#msg535694
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37043.msg1023125.html#msg1023125
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: remrej on December 20, 2012, 04:58:25 PM
other art upgrades for consideration by zblader and moomoose respectively
(http://i.imgur.com/Azjiu.png) (http://i.imgur.com/JQq0C.png)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42954.msg535694.html#msg535694
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37043.msg1023125.html#msg1023125

Are these really up for consideration for 1.32?  The photorealistic frog image doesn't match the style of the current cards at all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 20, 2012, 05:03:29 PM
....being put up for consideration by us to him.  and the image was edited a heck of a lot, its up for him to judge if its better than the spore art or not.

also i dont think it looks so out of place, especially when appropriately resized
(http://i.imgur.com/JQq0C.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: memimemi on December 20, 2012, 06:00:32 PM
Hoo-ray!  I know I'm a day late to say it, so I'd better say it twice:

HOORAY!!!!

It'll be fun to see what decks take over, when the dust settles after this shakeup.  Cheers, zanzarino!  Your efforts are appreciated!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 20, 2012, 06:08:22 PM
Updated OP with more new cards (now in the development page).

The final art for the new cards will come (hopefully) soon.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 20, 2012, 06:14:39 PM
oooooooo happy dance!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 06:15:56 PM
3AM here now, currently testing my new SoSebow sacrificing sleep, visited forum without brain, two new cards tada!
Love you so much <3 <3
Earth, please don't be destroyed. I need to test the new cards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on December 20, 2012, 06:17:27 PM
We have a graveyard now?

and lol at slight permanent powerup which is basically the opposite of what has been asked for
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 20, 2012, 06:21:24 PM
i havent seen how the cards are being implemented, but being returned to hand, as originally designed, is more of an immediate reverse time effect than a on-access graveyard
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 20, 2012, 06:22:28 PM
Here are they. http://elementsthegame.com/development
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 20, 2012, 06:26:04 PM
ah previously it was just still showing psion to me. alright, so it is a graveyard.  will have to see exactly how it works out
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 06:26:56 PM
We have a graveyard now?

and lol at slight permanent powerup which is basically the opposite of what has been asked for
^
Midas' Touch, please.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on December 20, 2012, 06:27:35 PM
We have a graveyard now?

and lol at slight permanent powerup which is basically the opposite of what has been asked for

Dis.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2012, 06:38:06 PM
I think that better than Graviton Salvager would be just buff Graviton Mercenary with Salvaging skill.

Question: Are shields considered permanents? I can't imagine Dimensional Shield Salvage. "Destroyed by your oponent". Well said, no dims or Sundials.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 20, 2012, 06:42:35 PM
Question: Are shields considered permanents? I can't imagine Dimensional Shield Salvage.

^ That. Make the bad things go away.

..Well honestly I assume that a Dim shield counter running out =/= "Destroyed permanent", which is a slight relief from what I originally thought. Still, this could be subject to abuse.

How will salvagers interact with bonewalls? Does a lost bonewall counter = "Destroyed permanent"?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 06:45:04 PM
Question: Are shields considered permanents? I can't imagine Dimensional Shield Salvage.

^ That. Make the bad things go away.

..Well honestly I assume that a Dim shield counter running out =/= "Destroyed permanent", which is a slight relief from what I originally thought. Still, this could be subject to abuse.

How will salvagers interact with bonewalls? Does a lost bonewall counter = "Destroyed permanent"?

As the original salvagers,
- Bonewall is never salvaged.
- Counter (Dim Shield, Sundials, etc) is not salvaged, but destroying them with Deflag can trigger salvaging.
- Not counting Steal.

I am curious that using two salvaging in one turn duplicates a permanent.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheAccuso on December 20, 2012, 06:46:00 PM
Zanz why you give us 2 anti PC creatures right after the SoFo nerf?
Please consider soft PC for this update.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dracomageat on December 20, 2012, 06:46:19 PM
Nerdgasm. (:
New art is freakin' badass!

So true!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on December 20, 2012, 06:47:32 PM
Seems like an interesting card, but do you really need two with the same effects? I would remove one of them and add something different instead.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 20, 2012, 06:49:02 PM
PC for Water?

Now that's a good idea :v
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 06:53:59 PM
Personally, I'd like to see Graviton Mercenary and Graviton Salvager united and Phase Salvager being removed.
I want the other cool cards in Armory and Forge. (Chaotic Field,...)

Meh, first let's see how Salvagers work
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 20, 2012, 07:04:35 PM
Seeing the development page, I for a second there thought Graviton Salvager upgrades into Phase Salvager :))
Hooray for new Synergy!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 20, 2012, 07:28:51 PM
Well... damn.  Time to choose another card for card idea of the month...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Tsmuji on December 20, 2012, 09:11:30 PM
Aaaaand Sosac doesn't screw the mulligan anymore, this should be fun.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Odii Odsen on December 20, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
Thunderstorm is too OP with that buff. It should cost more than 2/1 .
I like the new Arts.
SoR is too expensive.
Many decks will die, but also new decks will come.
Looking forward to this patch, since it would change many things.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on December 20, 2012, 10:22:43 PM
Hm, so the game can remember destroyed cards, if I'm reading Salvager correctly? That seems like an interesting area of design to explore, and might even enable an ETG version of 'graveyard manipulation' despite the game not having one.

I like Phase Salvager's artwork as well. Perhaps its design could be integrated into a less-temporary art rework, if the art changes?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: oliby on December 20, 2012, 10:38:22 PM
I think the Thunderstorm buff is about right, though it'll need testing against real opponents. Firestorm's 3 damage takes out many more creatures then Thunderstorm's 2 damage, with the only significant one coming to mind is the Phase Recluse and Ruby Dragon. Thunderstorm's cost is in needing multiple copies.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Laxadarap on December 20, 2012, 10:48:10 PM
I second that SoR is too expensive, and not only because it ruins SiG XD.

In reality, one of the main problems with SoR was that it could be spammed on time creatures for a lot of copies of a card when comboed with mitosis.  I don't think there are any other examples of abuse for it.  This nerf just essentially confines it to time decks, take a purple nymph.  These are good targets for SoR as a 4 entropy cost is pretty damn expensive.  Now, you are forced to run a duo for something with essentially the same cost (3 :rainbow in a mono= 3 :underworld).  Does SoR nymphs need a nerf?  Steamies are also great targets for SoR, it made it possible to run them in a mono, which is great, however, if your going to have to run a duo anyway, why not keep fire? It has lots more synergy, as well as PC.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on December 20, 2012, 10:55:35 PM
I agree. SoR should go back to rainbow cost (it can still be an element card to fit with the other shards) but change it so you can only use an ability on a time creature twice, no matter how many you use in one turn.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 12:17:47 AM
*winks at vrt - something vaguely reminiscent of wall-e and eve ? *[/size]

Best idea ever.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Vineroz on December 21, 2012, 01:25:52 AM
first thing that comes into my mind when zanz said "something reminiscent of wall-e"

(http://i.imgur.com/q8Yz5.jpg)
(http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34339.0.html)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 21, 2012, 01:29:26 AM
*winks at vrt - something vaguely reminiscent of wall-e and eve ? *[/size]

Best idea ever.
The thing is how much sense it would make.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 02:16:10 AM
Vin: Not original art, probably not a good idea.

Heh...I just realized something. The temporary PS art is perfect for Phase Spider, and the GS art could probably be used for Merc :3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 21, 2012, 02:40:02 AM
Why no buff to merc, antlion, and plate armor? Ah well, almost any update is a good one. Also any mention of trials?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 21, 2012, 02:48:45 AM
I'm having a hard time bringing myself to like either of the Salvagers right now. 

I don't feel like Graviton Salvager brings anything to Gravity that it really needs; I could really only see it protecting your Catapults and Titan which aren't Gravity's biggest concerns by far.

Phase Salvager on the other hand is practically too useful.  Not only can this card negate one of the counters to the most powerful shield in the game, but it's also in the same Element as Quintessence to make removing Dimensional Shield's protection nigh impossible.  It also allows the user to run Pillars with an Earth mark without needing to worry about EQs disrupting quanta by a significant amount because the Salvager can bring those Pillars back.  So that's two of Aether's biggest counters reduced by a fair amount.  This is going in the opposite direction than most agree was needed or wanted.

I like the concept and design of both of the cards, I just don't think that this is the right time to add them; I would not feel this way had SoFo not just gotten the nerfbat, though.  I also think that there are other elements that would benefit much more from having this kind of mechanic added to their repertoire, one of those being Life ironically (especially now that SoG is actually a Life card).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on December 21, 2012, 02:53:15 AM
I'm having a hard time bringing myself to like either of the Salvagers right now. 

I don't feel like Graviton Salvager brings anything to Gravity that it really needs; I could really only see it protecting your Catapults and Titan which aren't Gravity's biggest concerns by far.

Phase Salvager on the other hand is practically too useful.  Not only can this card negate one of the counters to the most powerful shield in the game, but it's also in the same Element as Quintessence to make removing Dimensional Shield's protection nigh impossible.  It also allows the user to run Pillars with an Earth mark without needing to worry about EQs disrupting quanta by a significant amount because the Salvager can bring those Pillars back.  So that's two of Aether's biggest counters reduced by a fair amount.  This is going in the opposite direction than most agree was needed or wanted.

I like the concept and design of both of the cards, I just don't think that this is the right time to add them; I would not feel this way had SoFo not just gotten the nerfbat, though.  I also think that there are other elements that would benefit much more from having this kind of mechanic added to their repertoire, one of those being Life ironically (especially now that SoG is actually a Life card).

This. There are lots of cards in the Armoury that the game would benefit more from, imo.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on December 21, 2012, 03:20:07 AM
I agree that despite thematic coolness, the salvagers are in the wrong place at possibly the wrong time.

Phase Salvager easily replaces PA in an Aether/Earth stall by giving a free 2/2 body along with the innate 'PA' - if your shield is destroyed, just salvage it back for :earth like nothing ever happened. It doesn't help that the one of the best shields in the game is in the same element.

Graviton Salvager has no relevance to it's element and is easily outclassed by its Aether counterpart on just about everything except for being a 1-drop as opposed to a 2-drop (which doesn't really make a difference since Phase actually deals damage.)

I think Graviton Salvager should be removed/overhauled into something much more useful instead of sticking with a mechanic it just won't well with (alternatively, it could be elementshifted as will suggested). Phase could be easily fixed by making the casting costs for it more expensive (I see a 3 :aether 2 | 2 :earth :earth Salvage as a step in the right direction.)

The mass shard change is beginning to feel a little thoughtless and doesn't necessarily solve every problem (for example, Instosis is still Instosis, and SoSac basically just doesn't mess up a mulligan anymore.). I think it would be wise to break the thematic unity of the shards a bit and have some cost :rainbow while others cost element, depending on what fits better. (For example, SoV could probably cost :rainbow without too big of a change and SoD should just give ~20-24 Max HP consistently since it is now :light only.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cunning_Wish on December 21, 2012, 04:36:48 AM
I don't really like New salvager
Especially one of them is  :aether
it will make Phase Shield neraly Invincible

we always need some PC in our deck to destory sth. horrible, but if opponent can repair , we'll lose fun.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 04:53:21 AM
Phase Salvager easily replaces PA in an Aether/Earth stall by giving a free 2/2 body along with the innate 'PA' - if your shield is destroyed, just salvage it back for :earth like nothing ever happened.

This is much weaker than PA in aether-earth dim stalls stalls - vulnerable to more control cards, unless you quint it, which increases card space, and more importantly, the shield is still destroyed, whereas it can't be with PA. This is huge, because every time the shield is destroyed, you take damage.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 21, 2012, 05:34:20 AM
Updated OP:

A few new balance changes for SoR, SoW and Thunderstorm
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 21, 2012, 05:41:16 AM
SoW definitely needs a cost increase methinks. +4 attack to any creature for 1 :aether? Yikes.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 21, 2012, 05:42:49 AM
SoW definitely needs a cost increase methinks. +4 attack to any creature for 1 :aether? Yikes.

2  :aether
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 21, 2012, 05:44:54 AM
...I apologize good sir, didn't read the fine print. Carry on. :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 05:45:31 AM
Zanz, I don't want to bug you, but you should enter chat if you have the time. I think most of chat would love to talk to you :3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 21, 2012, 05:46:21 AM
Still, SoW is more blatant in its OPness than Sundial used to be. Think blessing with def exchanged for ATK, the ability to stick it on immortals for spell damage, and 1 less cost.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 21, 2012, 05:49:04 AM
Still, SoW is more blatant in its OPness than Sundial used to be. Think blessing with def exchanged for ATK, the ability to stick it on immortals for spell damage, and 1 less cost.

Blessing(UP): 2 :light  : +3\+3
SoW(UP): 2  :aether  : +4\+0

I fail to see the blatant OPness
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: mesaprotector on December 21, 2012, 05:49:56 AM
Still, SoW is more blatant in its OPness than Sundial used to be. Think blessing with def exchanged for ATK, the ability to stick it on immortals for spell damage, and 1 less cost.

3/2 for +4|0 is pretty much equivalent to Blessing's 3|2 for +3|+3. It's balanced.

Whoops, ninja'd by Zanz.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 21, 2012, 05:53:17 AM
*Facepalm* Never noticed the cost increase.
But still. Spell damage and the ability to stick it on immortals is quite powerful.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 21, 2012, 05:53:38 AM
Blessing: 3 :light for +3|+3
Improved Blessing: 2 :light for +3|+3

Shard of Wisdom: 3 :aether for +4|+0, grant a reflectable momentum to immortal creatures
Shard of Wisdom (Upgraded): 2 :aether for +4|+0, grant a reflectable momentum to immortal creatures

All things considered, I think both cards are equal. SoW is more powerful in attack obviously, but it lacks increased health. The immortal creature bonus just seems fair considering that it's a rare card (I assume that whatever nonsensical balancing calculation is used takes rarity into account), and add the fact that it has a counter, and it's fine.

I'm no mathemagician, but SoW seems fine the way it is, no more or less broken than any other buff card.

:P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 21, 2012, 05:54:58 AM
The immortal creature bonus just seems fair considering that it's a rare card (I assume that whatever nonsensical balancing calculation is used takes rarity into account), and add the fact that it has a counter, and it's fine.
Rarity is supposed to have no effect on power. Just look at the furor SoFo created.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 21, 2012, 06:26:49 AM
You know, SoW Immortals never needs HP at all.
1HP SoW Immortal and 499HP SoW Immortal are identical unless Chimera.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on December 21, 2012, 06:30:12 AM
Still, SoW is more blatant in its OPness than Sundial used to be. Think blessing with def exchanged for ATK, the ability to stick it on immortals for spell damage, and 1 less cost.

Blessing(UP): 2 :light  : +3\+3
SoW(UP): 2  :aether  : +4\+0

I fail to see the blatant OPness

Blessing(UP): 2 :light : +3/+3  --> I play RT, AM, or a shield
SoW(UP): 2 :aether : +4/+0 --> RT stays in my hand, AM gets bored, and my shield frowns at me
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 21, 2012, 06:33:03 AM
Still, SoW is more blatant in its OPness than Sundial used to be. Think blessing with def exchanged for ATK, the ability to stick it on immortals for spell damage, and 1 less cost.

Blessing(UP): 2 :light  : +3\+3
SoW(UP): 2  :aether  : +4\+0

I fail to see the blatant OPness

Unstoppable: 1 :gravity  : +1\+1
SoW: 2  :aether  : +4\+0
And it's buffing Immortals, which can't be CC'd. We all know that SoW Immortals don't need HP at all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cheesy111 on December 21, 2012, 06:49:32 AM
I think the consensus is that SoW on non-immortal is fine, SoW on immortals is overpowered.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 21, 2012, 07:48:40 AM
Hmm...my first reaction to the SoW change was that this + Phase Recluses + TU would be OP similar to how Phase Dragons + PU used to be OP back in the old days.  So then I tested it.  Turns out it's not that bad.  Ranges from 5-7 turns to win on average with a well built deck, but crumbles to shields and CC pretty easily.  Not too much different from how your standard TU Recluse rush is right now. 

But then I tried Psions...
Psions are slightly slower, much more difficult to kill off with CC, and are indifferent to shields minus the reflectives.  I'm seeing it hover around 6 turns to win right now, and TU spam in addition to the Psion's above average bulk makes it scarily hard to stop.  I'm not really sure if this signifies that it's a broken combination (I myself am undecided on what to think about it), but I'm still worried about having a buff in the same element as TU regardless.

And I haven't tested it with Immaterial creatures given that I was fine with it before the change, so I see no reason to change my mind now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on December 21, 2012, 07:57:02 AM
SoBe and SoFr could use 3 and 2 cost for unupped and upped.
Reason: pre-change, they are quite balanced with the old cost. After change, they were buffed with the cost reduction (compared to first-gen shards, for example)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 21, 2012, 07:58:46 AM
Adren, SoW, Momentum, Chaos Power, Blessing, SoFre
Flying big furballs
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 21, 2012, 08:01:03 AM
SoR change - instosis is really gone
SoW change - doesn't really affect my 'mono' Aether, so I'm happy :)
Thunderstorm change - good for balancing
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 21, 2012, 08:18:06 AM
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s3 6s5 6s5 6s6 6s6 6s6 6s6 6u2 6u2 6u2 74a 74a 74a 7an 7jv 7jv 7q1 7q1 7q1 7q1 7q1 8ps

vs AI3, ~4.4 TTW?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 21, 2012, 08:55:46 AM
Shards are not "other" cards anymore and cost quanta of the appropriate element

<3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 21, 2012, 09:25:20 AM
Shard of Bravery is very scarily fast in Cremation rushes atm.  I'd expect a normal response to that to be, "So what?  Your opponent's drawing cards at the same rate as you are!", but the problem here is that SoBe takes away nearly all of a Cremation rush's former inconsistency thanks to increased drawing, and can produce quanta much more quickly than most decks unless they're using another similar quanta production accelerator.  I've been using a deck with Crimson Dragons and Seraphs with Minor Phoenixes and it's easily getting 4-5 TTWs consistently; not having enough quanta through Cremation alone rarely matters when you can expect your deck to win in 4-5 turns regardless.  No PC, though.  But if this is how fast it is in a Mono Fire based Cremation rush, I'd be terrified to think of what it's capable of in a Rainbow based Cremation rush.

I honestly think it needs to be bumped up to 3 :fire as 2 would likely still be too cheap.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 21, 2012, 09:52:28 AM
So, now that my love for the shard change is declared and my will to play this game restored, on to feedback!

Phase Salvager is bad. Really really bad. Dimensional Shield doesn't need more protection, it probably needs more answers. Listen to willng3.
I suggest moving it to Light or Life (activation cost in Earth is good) with a new flavor - maybe a salvaging spirit for :light, or a spirit that infuses life into objects for :life? (This gives me a random crazy idea of a Life card that brings back permanents as creatures, that'd be cool)

Shard of Sacrifice is still a pretty heavy swing. It's been shown that there are answers, but the synergy with Shard of Divinity was huge... and it still is. Upgrading the cost a little bit might be an idea, since that way you force people to run both :light and :death in meaningful amounts (still, Supernova... but it needs testing it could be unreliable).

I'm not saying anything on the other shards yet.

There's still no love for PC. And I don't mean uber-powerful PC cards such as Shard of Focus, which is still pretty strong, I mean a little more soft PC cards or a few answers to the most infamous permanents. I particularly like Rejuvenation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34369) and Touch of Midas (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21604.0.html), and they're some of the most loved card ideas too.

I'd love to see Quantum Locket (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25665.0.html) come in to soften the strong push towards mono in this patch.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: vrt on December 21, 2012, 09:53:01 AM
Scavenger art coming in the next 2-3 days.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 21, 2012, 10:22:31 AM
Yay, a way to be reactive about PC instead of uselessly delaying (Silence) and selectively being proactive (PA).  Also, noted that Gravity will also have a 1-cost creature non-upgraded.

Note for the Shards:

Now that the loyalty is forced due to  :underworld costs, will the card effect change to cater?  Even if universalizing the effect is done, it still makes the mono much stronger since that was what it was designed to amplify, unless there are some tricky synergies I am not thinking of.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 21, 2012, 10:57:52 AM
I for one think the introduction of salvagers is good for the game. If we ever wish to make permanent control as prevalent as everyone seems to want, we need to make some counters against it. We already have one in the form of Protect Artifact, but that isn't quite enough. In addition, we can't give every element  Protect Artifact dopplegangers because 1. that would be redundant and 2. Protect Artifact is pretty powerful (in terms of speed and resilience), albeit costly (in permanents-protected-per-copy). Perhaps, in this regard, salvagers are too cheap (each can protect an infinite number of permanents), but this doesn't mean that the concept itself is not balanceable. If the card or ability cost is increased (not favorable), or if some limit is placed on the number of permanents that can be salvaged, for example:

Quote
Graviton Salvager

:gravity : Salvage (5 times)
Restore a permanent destroyed by your opponent



Phase Salvager

:earth : Salvage (2 times)
Restore a permanent destroyed by your opponent
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 21, 2012, 01:01:16 PM
Are the Salvagers actually implemented in the trainer? I found the water spell, but these two don't show up in bazaar, all cards button or "Other" section.
Nitpick: All cards doesn't give the last 5 shards. They have to be bought and/or upgraded manually.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 21, 2012, 01:10:14 PM
I for one think the introduction of salvagers is good for the game. If we ever wish to make permanent control as prevalent as everyone seems to want, we need to make some counters against it. We already have one in the form of Protect Artifact, but that isn't quite enough. In addition, we can't give every element  Protect Artifact dopplegangers because 1. that would be redundant and 2. Protect Artifact is pretty powerful (in terms of speed and resilience), albeit costly (in permanents-protected-per-copy). Perhaps, in this regard, salvagers are too cheap (each can protect an infinite number of permanents), but this doesn't mean that the concept itself is not balanceable. If the card or ability cost is increased (not favorable), or if some limit is placed on the number of permanents that can be salvaged, for example: *snip*

I like the salvagers in a void, but giving one to Aether is not a good idea in my opinion. Also, as you say, they can support some more PC, so I'd introduce some more PC alongside them.
As for putting a cap on them, I think the fact that they are creatures is vulnerability enough... as long as they stay clear of Aether's Quintessence.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: EmeraldTiger on December 21, 2012, 01:49:35 PM
To deal with SoW issue give us a spell,like one suggested in CIA that can add a reflective coating to any shield.

Edit: this was the suggestion by Absol. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38970.0.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 21, 2012, 02:07:47 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
So Bye Bye Instosis. I think it's good, it will give less monotony to FG grinding (sorry Sevs)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 21, 2012, 02:12:51 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
So Bye Bye Instosis. I think it's good, it will give less monotony to FG grinding (sorry Sevs)
Is there a better 200HP OTK combo than Limitless Speed?
Just wondering ;|
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 21, 2012, 02:54:08 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
So Bye Bye Instosis. I think it's good, it will give less monotony to FG grinding (sorry Sevs)

It's not dead yet~
(http://i.imgur.com/w5ADJ.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Hannal on December 21, 2012, 03:14:05 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2

Looks pretty dead to me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 21, 2012, 03:17:13 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
So Bye Bye Instosis. I think it's good, it will give less monotony to FG grinding (sorry Sevs)

It's not dead yet~
(http://i.imgur.com/w5ADJ.png)

9 card combo?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: yee on December 21, 2012, 05:33:46 PM
Psion does not have a fortune in Oracle, please add one.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 21, 2012, 05:36:21 PM
already taken care of.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: andretimpa on December 21, 2012, 06:29:46 PM
RoL/Hope/SoP got a considerable buff
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6rv 6rv 6rv 6rv 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7k2 7k2 7k4 7k4 7k4 7k4 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 8pp

Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Vangelios on December 21, 2012, 06:48:21 PM
Shard of wisdom now is completely OP, should continue only for immaterial.
Moreover stayed with characteristics very similar of the fire spells which aims to attack.
Only for immaterial and damage as spell combines with aether.
I think it would look better that way; "Target creature attacks as spell, immaterial gains + 4 | 0"
(The problem is that would make a terrible combo with reflective shields)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 21, 2012, 07:14:58 PM
so far in my testing i havent broken a 6ttw (half blood using wyrm/sow/dive/blitz/tu) with a sow focused deck, do you have an op deck in mind?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: crosscounter on December 21, 2012, 07:16:11 PM
As aforementioned, the salvager will be a great addition to the game but it needs adjustments. I am liking Pineapple's idea:
... If the card or ability cost is increased (not favorable), or if some limit is placed on the number of permanents that can be salvaged, for example:

Quote
Graviton Salvager

:gravity : Salvage (5 times)
Restore a permanent destroyed by your opponent



Phase Salvager

:earth : Salvage (2 times)
Restore a permanent destroyed by your opponent

In addition, they could be further nerfed with a "delay" effect inflicted on itself for each ability used (sort of like Procrastination shield). Another variation of the "delay" idea would be "cooldown," meaning such delay applies just for the spell and not the entire creature.

Looking forward to more discussions!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 21, 2012, 07:35:47 PM
Balance:
Thunderstorm now inflicts 2 damage, cost increased to 3/2
Shards are not "other" cards anymore and cost quanta of the appropriate element
Shard of patience bonus is now +2|+2 for any creature. +5|+5 for water creatures under water (flooded area)
Shard of wisdom now grants a +4|+0 bonus to any creature, immortals also gain spell damage, cost increased to 3/2
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2

Thunderstorm: I think the +1 cost was needed with the +1 damage thing.  I could definitely see myself using the card in this version; it might even still be a bit cheap, but it shouldn't be broken OP.

Patience: The fractal spark thing makes me fairly nervous.  I was actually fairly happy with the old shard of patience.  I don't mind the +5/+5 flooding bonus; that is very hard to achieve anyway, so buffing that part of the card is fine.

Wisdom: Compared to cards like improved blessing or chaos power, this isn't actually that much stronger.  It is a buff for the card, but other than on spiders, not really for monoaether.  How many people splash light just for blessing in a deck?  Probably not very many.  They do for chaos power, most notably in chaos wyrms, but that's because it only costs 1 quanta.  Overall I think this card is a bit better than blessing, but remember that not gaining the extra hp means the target is still as vulnerable to CC as it ever was, and dealing spell damage can  be a liability in the case of reflective shields.  If a nerf is decided upon, I'd go with either +1 cost or +3/+0 instead of 4.

Readiness: I've been clamoring for -exactly- this change ever since the last time shard of readiness was changed, so I agree 100% with this.  I think that it would be usable in this form even if kept in other.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 21, 2012, 07:59:10 PM
Shard of patience bonus is now +2|+2 for any creature. +5|+5 for water creatures under water (flooded area)

Another nice little Water/Gravity synergy.  The captain likes this.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: vrt on December 21, 2012, 09:13:34 PM
One down?

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/elements/salvager.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: jawdirk on December 21, 2012, 09:42:43 PM
A lot of people are worried about the phase salvager, but I think it will be fine. It doesn't work with the classic mono aether because one of the strengths of that deck is that it has no targetable creatures. The phase salvagers would eat all the CC and accomplish nothing. And good luck trying to squeeze quintessence in there with it (the other strength of mono aether is its reliability). What it might do is make some other aether decks more viable. My guess is that it will not be a particularly strong card. I do hope that we get some soft PC in other elements soon though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Kuroaitou on December 21, 2012, 09:45:46 PM
One down?

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/elements/salvager.png)

Everyone can go home after they +1 rep vrt.

Getting a double-dose of your fabulous artwork is too much to handle. Thank you vrt - if this is the 'grungy' salvager for Gravity, I'm guessing Aether's version will be much more... eloquent, eh? ;)

[PERSONAL NOTE: If zanzarino is still reading this thread (which is a lot, considering that there are now 20~ pages and going...), I wonder if he knows how popular Elements is nowadays on Kongregate, considering SG's publicity is absent.]
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on December 21, 2012, 10:00:05 PM
Amazing work as always vrt, +rep. He looks like Wall-E combined with a Big Daddy from Bioshock. :D
I still kinda think that this card could be Graviton Mercenary, or even replace it, but I suppose card variety is better.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 10:30:48 PM
Amazing work as always vrt, +rep. He looks like Wall-E combined with a Big Daddy from Bioshock. :D

Yep. He even said in chat it felt like Wall•E meets Bioshock :3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 21, 2012, 10:32:35 PM
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Laxadarap on December 21, 2012, 10:37:10 PM
Shard of Bravery is very scarily fast in Cremation rushes atm.  I'd expect a normal response to that to be, "So what?  Your opponent's drawing cards at the same rate as you are!", but the problem here is that SoBe takes away nearly all of a Cremation rush's former inconsistency thanks to increased drawing, and can produce quanta much more quickly than most decks unless they're using another similar quanta production accelerator.  I've been using a deck with Crimson Dragons and Seraphs with Minor Phoenixes and it's easily getting 4-5 TTWs consistently; not having enough quanta through Cremation alone rarely matters when you can expect your deck to win in 4-5 turns regardless.  No PC, though.  But if this is how fast it is in a Mono Fire based Cremation rush, I'd be terrified to think of what it's capable of in a Rainbow based Cremation rush.

I honestly think it needs to be bumped up to 3 :fire as 2 would likely still be too cheap.

Honestly, this was here and even better before this "nerf".  In my opinion, the game needs a super fast rush, and sobe immorushes are just that, very frail and fail to things such as an early dim (thats why I run sobree), but they actually took a bit of a nerf in immorushes, and a buff in other decks, which in my opinion is how it should be.  For example,  all of my immorushes run without towers/pends, and a seraph is 1 turn + 1 cremation.  If you are using SoBe, then it takes 2 cremations to get out a seraph, and you might as well be using Rubies.  As slight as it is, it's still a nerf.  For the record, these rushes didn't really dominate CL (a good guage of upped meta), as they can be countered pretty easily, and SoI rushes were just as competitive.  I've been outrushed by powerful wyrms with this, as the faster you draw, the faster they draw. 
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 21, 2012, 10:40:30 PM
I still kinda think that this card could be Graviton Mercenary, or even replace it
I am in favour of making every "middle of the road" creature have an ability, even if it's simple or weak. Graviton Mercenary could have a 1-turn self momentum and  Blue Crawler a 1-turn 1-slot flooding in your field, for example.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on December 21, 2012, 10:40:48 PM
Maybe a little more touch up on it? (otherwise, looks good)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ba4dX.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 10:42:07 PM
It looks unrefined in full size, but it doesn't need to be completely fluid to look great in the game. And the game is where it actually matters.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Wolfunit on December 21, 2012, 10:46:12 PM
[PERSONAL NOTE: If zanzarino is still reading this thread (which is a lot, considering that there are now 20~ pages and going...), I wonder if he knows how popular Elements is nowadays on Kongregate, considering SG's publicity is absent.]

Sorry to say but none of that was from SG but I would say myself and the core set of regulars.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 21, 2012, 10:46:39 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
So Bye Bye Instosis. I think it's good, it will give less monotony to FG grinding (sorry Sevs)

It's not dead yet~
(http://i.imgur.com/w5ADJ.png)

9 card combo?

Yeah, but only if you include chimera. It's much more unreliable, but still faster (because it requires less quanta generation) than alternatives such as limitless speed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 21, 2012, 10:49:22 PM
Is Elements 1.32 going to appear in Kongregate's home page game slide? If FO does and gets many new players because of that...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 10:51:38 PM
If FO does and gets many new players because of that...

This part confuses me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: vrt on December 21, 2012, 10:55:04 PM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 21, 2012, 10:57:14 PM
Could an update actually get Elements featured?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: vrt on December 21, 2012, 10:59:05 PM
It'd have to be one heckuva update.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on December 21, 2012, 11:02:19 PM
It's too bad the concept of the shards didn't stick. I see where it was going, but some of the cards created didn't fit a fair rainbow niche. Perhaps some other smaller card series will get the idea behind the shards better. At the same time I'm glad the above mentioned cards got a leash.

Awesome update.

Best of luck Zanz.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 21, 2012, 11:03:15 PM
It'd have to be one heckuva update.
I think 15+ card changes /additions deserves it
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on December 21, 2012, 11:15:07 PM
It'd have to be one heckuva update.
I think 15+ card changes /additions deserves it

Since I am too lazy to look through updates, can anyone come up with a shorthand list
of all the changes and additions?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on December 21, 2012, 11:16:53 PM
Shard of Bravery is very scarily fast in Cremation rushes atm.  I'd expect a normal response to that to be, "So what?  Your opponent's drawing cards at the same rate as you are!", but the problem here is that SoBe takes away nearly all of a Cremation rush's former inconsistency thanks to increased drawing, and can produce quanta much more quickly than most decks unless they're using another similar quanta production accelerator.  I've been using a deck with Crimson Dragons and Seraphs with Minor Phoenixes and it's easily getting 4-5 TTWs consistently; not having enough quanta through Cremation alone rarely matters when you can expect your deck to win in 4-5 turns regardless.  No PC, though.  But if this is how fast it is in a Mono Fire based Cremation rush, I'd be terrified to think of what it's capable of in a Rainbow based Cremation rush.

I honestly think it needs to be bumped up to 3 :fire as 2 would likely still be too cheap.

Honestly, this was here and even better before this "nerf".  In my opinion, the game needs a super fast rush, and sobe immorushes are just that, very frail and fail to things such as an early dim (thats why I run sobree), but they actually took a bit of a nerf in immorushes, and a buff in other decks, which in my opinion is how it should be.  For example,  all of my immorushes run without towers/pends, and a seraph is 1 turn + 1 cremation.  If you are using SoBe, then it takes 2 cremations to get out a seraph, and you might as well be using Rubies.  As slight as it is, it's still a nerf.  For the record, these rushes didn't really dominate CL (a good guage of upped meta), as they can be countered pretty easily, and SoI rushes were just as competitive.  I've been outrushed by powerful wyrms with this, as the faster you draw, the faster they draw.
The reason I dislike its current speed is that it makes Mono Fire faster than all other Mono Elements by a significant amount.  Mono Fire based Cremation rushes before SoBe was introduced were found to be around 6 turns to win on average with Mono Life close behind and some others not far after as well.  I have managed to pull off 3TTW with SoBe in its current form, and further testing shows that adding Explosions doesn't interfere with speed much at all.  I still need to test how changing this from a Mono Fire to a Rainbow Cremation rush changes the speed, but I'm actually not expecting a very noticeable increase, if any, in speed and the Mono Fire rush might actually prove to be more resilient, honestly.

There's also the fact that Seraphs can become immune to CC after the first turn, which further increases the opponent's reliance on the first draw.  I've also had as many as 3 Pandemonium used on me without all of my Seraphs being protected and still managed to easily win in 5 turns.  And contrary to your statement, a mix of Cremations and Fire Towers allows Seraphs to be played without 2 Cremations being needed while if excess quanta exists it can go to playing another Seraph or a Dragon.  Is it counterable?  Sure, but I don't think that that's enough justification to leave it as it is. 

My understanding of the CL meta is that a significant portion of it is shard based.  How do the latest Shard changes affect this, would you expect?

However, I will admit to my analysis being faulty given that I cannot accurately assess how it fares in PvP until that ability is enabled.  I never really used SoBe in Cremation rushes much before the latest change, but I would imagine that the change to exclusive Fire quanta cuts down on its speed a bit given that it can't make any use of the excess quanta produced by Cremation.  If 3 :fire proves to be too high of a nerf then 2 :fire at the least should be minimum.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 21, 2012, 11:17:02 PM
It'd have to be one heckuva update.
I think 15+ card changes /additions deserves it

Since I am too lazy to look through updates, can anyone come up with a shorthand list
of all the changes and additions?

I don't understand your question.

Currently in trainer

New cards (http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html (http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html)):
Dry spell / Desiccation (Inspired by Tiko)
Graviton Salvager (inspired by Moomoose)
Phase Salvager (inspired by Moomoose)

New art by vrt for:
Chrysaora
Shrieker
Vampire
New art for the salvagers is pending *winks at vrt - something vaguely reminiscent of wall-e and eve ? *

Balance:
Thunderstorm now inflicts 2 damage, cost increased to 3/2
Shards are not "other" cards anymore and cost quanta of the appropriate element
Shard of patience bonus is now +2|+2 for any creature. +5|+5 for water creatures under water (flooded area)
Shard of wisdom now grants a +4|+0 bonus to any creature, immortals also gain spell damage, cost increased to 3/2
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on December 21, 2012, 11:56:41 PM
It'd have to be one heckuva update.
I think 15+ card changes /additions deserves it

Since I am too lazy to look through updates, can anyone come up with a shorthand list
of all the changes and additions?

I don't understand your question.

It was a part of the conversation between Chapuz and vrt. They were talking about how a large update might warrant a spotlight on a site like Kong, much like a new game would. I was thinking about how if you stacked a list of all the updates since the game was originally released it might be equivalent to that suggestion. The complete evolution is enough.

Regardless, a spotlight from a site like Kong always brings in a rush of new players, several of which will stick around, and some who will also find their way to the forum. I'm not quite sure, but I thought advertisements of that kind cost money. Would Zanz invest in that?

On a side note, anyone else notice the copyright is still only for 2011?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 22, 2012, 12:30:12 AM
Maybe a little more touch up on it? (otherwise, looks good)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ba4dX.png)

you need to get a better resizing program majo-
(http://i.imgur.com/Uy4tp.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 22, 2012, 12:55:07 AM
It'd have to be one heckuva update.
I think 15+ card changes /additions deserves it

Since I am too lazy to look through updates, can anyone come up with a shorthand list
of all the changes and additions?

I don't understand your question.

It was a part of the conversation between Chapuz and vrt. They were talking about how a large update might warrant a spotlight on a site like Kong, much like a new game would. I was thinking about how if you stacked a list of all the updates since the game was originally released it might be equivalent to that suggestion. The complete evolution is enough.

Regardless, a spotlight from a site like Kong always brings in a rush of new players, several of which will stick around, and some who will also find their way to the forum. I'm not quite sure, but I thought advertisements of that kind cost money. Would Zanz invest in that?

On a side note, anyone else notice the copyright is still only for 2011?

http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/Patch_Notes
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Wolfunit on December 22, 2012, 01:04:46 AM
Is Elements 1.32 going to appear in Kongregate's home page game slide? If FO does and gets many new players because of that...

You're forgetting one major factor, Elements doesn't have a microtransaction enabled with kong for kred purchases for items in-game. Only games which does and maintains a large player base are supported by kongregate on it's feature page aswell as those that gains badges which elements already gotten.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
My understanding of the CL meta is that a significant portion of it is shard based.  How do the latest Shard changes affect this, would you expect?

Depends on the shard.  Here's my two cents:

Aether: Hard to say, since being able to be played on any creature now it's probably stronger than it is now.  The only decks I've seen in CL using shard of wisdom are shard golems and flying morning glories.  Shard golems will take a bit of a hit, since 2  :aether is harder to play than 1  :rainbow, and I'm not yet sure if the new SoW can be played on immortal creatures like it can now.  Flying glories can probably just use aether mark and call it a day, assuming that you can play SoW on them still.  The changes might well result in seeing more SoW next season.

Air: We'll probably see more SoFr next season.  Right now, I see it mostly in shard golems, chaos wyrms, and seraph/phoenix immorush, and I think once in flying glories, and all except the glories will still be able to use it, possibly even more easily due to cost.

Darkness: In two seasons of CL I've seen shard of void in one game.  I don't think the cost change will affect that any.

Death: The cost change will make some difference, although most decks using SoSa were either mainly death or rainbow, so I think there will be little to no change.  There will be more counters to SoSa, now, though, since things like black hole, discord, pests, etc can potentially take away that quanta, but then the counter to that counter is just keep one death tower or nova in hand for it.

Earth: Only deck it's used in right now is shard golem, obviously :p  With the cost decreased to 1 :earth, I can see it being used in quick monoearth decks as a kind of cheap weenie; worst case it's a micro abomination (or thereabouts; I think it's 2/5 with no other shards) and if you have more shards, it's kind of like playing a hand full of micro abominations for 1 :earth, but having the whole thing vulnerable to one piece of removal.

Entropy: Not used a lot in CL, but by changing a few QTs to entropy towers, it can probably still be used, just with less copies.

Fire: Mostly used in cremation rushes now.  I expect to see it a LOT more if the current 1 :fire cost is kept.  I built a few decks in the beta compilation thread with this.

Gravity: We might see a few next season in rainbows.  I've never seen monogravity in CL, though maybe we will now... but I doubt it.  SoFo was EVERYWHERE in CL this season and last.

Life: Only saw  SoG used once in CL, and the deck it was used in will be largely unaffected by the change, possibly having to use a few more pends to support it.

Light: I've seen SoD used in several decks, most of which will be slowed slightly or need quanta bases refined, so it will lose a bit of popularity, but not much.

Time: Seen it a lot, mostly in mummy/rt/SoR decks, or some OTKs.  I don't think it will be used seriously in CL in this version.  If it were an other card with the two use/turn clause included, it would still see some use, even at the old 5 // 3 cost.

Water: Saw it a few times in CL, but never in a competitive deck.  This might change next season with the buff, but that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on December 22, 2012, 09:17:35 AM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Actually a MMORPG. Sucky one last time i played it though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Angel_love95lol on December 22, 2012, 04:28:58 PM
So exciting!! ;D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 22, 2012, 04:54:29 PM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Actually a MMORPG. Sucky one last time i played it though.

Actually, it was a card game, the name of which is forsaken on this forum...

Whispers in everyone's ear...

Tyrant
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 22, 2012, 05:23:11 PM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Actually a MMORPG. Sucky one last time i played it though.

Actually, it was a card game, the name of which is forsaken on this forum...

Whispers in everyone's ear...

Tyrant
MMORPTCG
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 22, 2012, 05:24:04 PM
Don't think he's talking about Tyrant.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 22, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
looking trough trainer to find the new card, didn't find it yet but i know i'll like it!!
It is, look in the bazaar.
@Zanz, thank you for coming back and updating the game. Merry Christmas <3


i think i got the wrong version of the trainer or something lol

anyways, i love the new cards, and the new art is amazing, i mourn the decks that won't be playable anymore tough, rest in peace instosis
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 22, 2012, 10:54:32 PM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Actually a MMORPG. Sucky one last time i played it though.

Actually, it was a card game, the name of which is forsaken on this forum...

Whispers in everyone's ear...

Tyrant

I was talking about Fantasy Online, a MMORPG.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 23, 2012, 02:08:19 AM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Actually a MMORPG. Sucky one last time i played it though.

Actually, it was a card game, the name of which is forsaken on this forum...

Whispers in everyone's ear...

Tyrant

I was talking about Fantasy Online, a MMORPG.

Ah, yes, I remember that one too.  I believe that had like 2 or 3 features.

EDIT: if more badges are a requirement, perhaps we could come up with a few?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Naesala on December 23, 2012, 02:34:27 AM
He's pointing out how a different card game got featured and got lots of new players.

Of course, with that already having happened in Elements' history..
Actually a MMORPG. Sucky one last time i played it though.

Actually, it was a card game, the name of which is forsaken on this forum...

Whispers in everyone's ear...

Tyrant

I was talking about Fantasy Online, a MMORPG.

Ah, yes, I remember that one too.  I believe that had like 2 or 3 features.

EDIT: if more badges are a requirement, perhaps we could come up with a few?
Elements already has the 4 badge maximum.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Anarook on December 23, 2012, 04:25:35 AM
Dammit moomoose, makin me jelly =/
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 23, 2012, 05:44:06 AM
if it makes you feel better, i have easily put over 500 hours (possibly over 1000) into card development ( http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15180.0.html ) and only 2 proved useful, and at minimum wage of $7.25/hr that would be $3625 donated to the game for those two card ideas to take off.  well, i made myself sad.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: henstheman on December 23, 2012, 07:22:14 AM
Moomoose, I have just looked at your portfolio, and I have to say, your work is amazing. I know if those cards are implemented to the game, Elements would have a significant improvement. I'm very impressed and hope your cards will be added sometime soon.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 23, 2012, 11:05:48 AM
1.33 has to have a way to make small amounts of specific quanta quickly on demand, or someone's going to rage over 1.32 over a long time.
(I'm thinking the gem makers, now floating around in the armory.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 23, 2012, 11:30:30 AM
1.33 has to have a way to make small amounts of specific quanta quickly on demand, or someone's going to rage over 1.32 over a long time.
(I'm thinking the gem makers, now floating around in the armory.)

What's your reasoning for this claim?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 23, 2012, 11:41:36 AM
The shard coloration. In particular, SoR, SoD and SoG now cost 3/2 of specific elements, which will render brave phalanx and other decks dependent on the colornessless of the shards disabled or worse.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on December 23, 2012, 11:58:01 AM
The shard coloration. In particular, SoR, SoD and SoG now cost 3/2 of specific elements, which will render brave phalanx and other decks dependent on the colornessless of the shards disabled or worse.

Show me how you make Brave Phalanx working with those cards in.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 23, 2012, 12:21:48 PM
The shard coloration. In particular, SoR, SoD and SoG now cost 3/2 of specific elements, which will render brave phalanx and other decks dependent on the colornessless of the shards disabled or worse.

I'm pretty sure more people will be HAPPY rather than raging about how zanz has fixed the shard's excessive splash-ability. Did you think zanz did this on a whim, only to create some problems?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 23, 2012, 12:23:27 PM
No (though I would take the problem up differently if I was the dev). It's just that this fix disables a few decks, so people going by them will find them less powerful in the next version.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marsu on December 23, 2012, 01:07:20 PM
That's the sense of this game, to adapt to new situations and create innovative decks.
If some noob cries because his copy&paste deck doesn't work anymore... Noone should care.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on December 23, 2012, 02:25:59 PM
Sure, it's nice when the meta changes, because new decks rise.
But we should also try to add cards that enable players to try more combinations, i don't think the problem is to maintain old decks, but to make a more diversified meta.
Right now the possible decks are: mono, duo, trio, and rainbows.
Quad decks are treated like rainbows, with quantum pillars and nova/supernova, and trios aren't very reliable.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Wolfunit on December 23, 2012, 02:53:44 PM
Quote
Ah, yes, I remember that one too.  I believe that had like 2 or 3 features.

EDIT: if more badges are a requirement, perhaps we could come up with a few?

Kongregate rarely ever would r-ebadge a game (If it didn't have 4 already) also like I said Elements would never be featured for the reasons I posted before and only would if the Badge of the day system comes back. If I was in the council imo I would encourage the others to support a suggestion to zanz to add the microtransaction because he's losing out on a massive amount of revenue potential if he ever decides to add more then shards/artwork for $. Better then nothing in my point of view as you see all those popular games getting the developer a decent amount of $.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 23, 2012, 03:23:35 PM
If I was in the council imo I would encourage the others to support a suggestion to zanz to add the microtransaction because he's losing out on a massive amount of revenue potential if he ever decides to add more then shards/artwork for $. Better then nothing in my point of view as you see all those popular games getting the developer a decent amount of $.

This is getting off-topic, but that's already been brought up and shot down countless times. Do you want to know why the premium items on Kongregate MMOs are so outrageously expensive, especially compared to their Chinese counterparts (if applicable)? It's because Kongregate rakes in a large percentage of the revenue gained when players buy kreds. The reason Elements uses a Paypal donation system is because the money goes straight from the player to zanz, and not some extraneous third party. I fail to see how enabling players to waste their money paying Kongregate can be considered a "massive amount of revenue potential".
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 23, 2012, 03:47:25 PM
If I was in the council imo I would encourage the others to support a suggestion to zanz to add the microtransaction because he's losing out on a massive amount of revenue potential if he ever decides to add more then shards/artwork for $. Better then nothing in my point of view as you see all those popular games getting the developer a decent amount of $.

This is getting off-topic, but that's already been brought up and shot down countless times. Do you want to know why the premium items on Kongregate MMOs are so outrageously expensive, especially compared to their Chinese counterparts (if applicable)? It's because Kongregate rakes in a large percentage of the revenue gained when players buy kreds. The reason Elements uses a Paypal donation system is because the money goes straight from the player to zanz, and not some extraneous third party. I fail to see how enabling players to waste their money paying Kongregate can be considered a "massive amount of revenue potential".

amen
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on December 23, 2012, 05:57:40 PM
Which is why new features should be offered through the game.
By the way, there are plenty of cool ideas that don't involve getting cards or affecting game play directly that could contribute to additional revenue for zanz. A random way off the top of my head is a couple internal deck save slots (even though that might require sever upgrades).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 23, 2012, 05:59:20 PM
Which is why new features should be offered through the game.
By the way, there are plenty of cool ideas that don't involve getting cards or affecting game play directly that could contribute to additional revenue for zanz. A random way off the top of my head is a couple internal deck save slots (even though that might require sever upgrades).
More than that, I'd like to see the optimization for deckbuilding speed(cards add, remove, import etc). It's so laggy..
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 23, 2012, 06:02:40 PM
Shush, let zanz work, it's the Trial I'm waiting for. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: cometbah on December 23, 2012, 06:11:19 PM
Would it be correct to assume that the new 'salvage' ability comes with a new hidden game mechanism (keeping track of what has been destroyed)?

If so,  :death could really benefit from the application of this mechanism! (playing around with what's in the stack of destroyed cards)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 23, 2012, 07:33:55 PM
Would it be correct to assume that the new 'salvage' ability comes with a new hidden game mechanism (keeping track of what has been destroyed)?

If so,  :death could really benefit from the application of this mechanism! (playing around with what's in the stack of destroyed cards)

won't be long now before the first death cards that raise your opponents creatures from the dead pops up into the card idea thread
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 23, 2012, 08:57:30 PM
i really hope people are more creative than raising deceased creatures cards
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 23, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
i really hope people are more creative than raising deceased creatures cards

maybe death-entropy permanent, costs dead to play and entropy to use, revives a random creature to both sides of the field :p
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: crosscounter on December 23, 2012, 09:05:14 PM
I just realized the "colorization" of shards will make the Deck Ideas forums topsy turvy (with Mono/Duo/Trio/Rainbow discernment). I guess new versions of old decks will be posted as new threads x(
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: glennfoo on December 23, 2012, 09:06:07 PM
yup I am greedy... hopefully there is a new fire card developed by zanz :D if aether receive one too
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 23, 2012, 09:24:42 PM
yup I am greedy... hopefully there is a new fire card developed by zanz :D if aether receive one too
Agreed it was a long time ago since the seraph dosen't count.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 23, 2012, 11:16:45 PM
yup I am greedy... hopefully there is a new fire card developed by zanz :D if aether receive one too
Agreed it was a long time ago since the seraph dosen't count.
A fire card does not count as a fire card?

Does not compute...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on December 23, 2012, 11:53:09 PM
I think Darkness deserves a new card; the last one (Cloak) came out in 1.26.
(Same for Entropy, Death, and Air.) The only Element that's latest card came out before that is Water.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 24, 2012, 12:00:09 PM
I still think fire if we don't count seraph since what Zanzarino said himself was a card that didn't add so many new synergies it was added for the art.
Title: R: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on December 24, 2012, 12:43:39 PM
I think we should see which element has less cards than the others.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 24, 2012, 12:48:19 PM
I still think fire if we don't count seraph since what Zanzarino said himself was a card that didn't add so many new synergies it was added for the art.
Still a card.

Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marsu on December 24, 2012, 02:29:56 PM
It obviously has to be Life.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 24, 2012, 02:41:03 PM
Life, Fire, Air and Aether need 1 more card so each element has at least 17 cards in their arsenal. Death has the largest right now, with 18.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: EmeraldTiger on December 24, 2012, 02:52:59 PM
# of cards including shards currently in trainer, not including salvagers 
:aether has 17 cards
 :air has 17 cards
 :darkness has 18 cards
 :death has 19 cards
 :earth has 18 cards
 :entropy has 18 cards
 :fire has 17 cards
 :gravity has 18 cards
 :life has 17 cards
 :light has 18 cards
 :time has 18 cards
 :water has 18 cards
Other has 6 cards
then there are the cards that are only obtained within a game. #?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 24, 2012, 03:01:35 PM
# of cards including shards currently in trainer, not including salvagers 
:aether has 17 cards
 :air has 17 cards
 :darkness has 18 cards
 :death has 19 cards
 :earth has 18 cards
 :entropy has 18 cards
 :fire has 17 cards
 :gravity has 18 cards
 :life has 17 cards
 :light has 18 cards
 :time has 18 cards
 :water has 18 cards
Other has 6 cards
then there are the cards that are only obtained within a game. #?

In-game cards: I count 4. Singularity, Malignant Cell, Ash and Shard Golem.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 24, 2012, 03:05:35 PM
It obviously has to be Life.

TBH, Air could also enjoy something new after Sky Blitz. And Darkness.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on December 24, 2012, 07:04:39 PM
It obviously has to be Life.

TBH, Air could also enjoy something new after Sky Blitz. And Darkness.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 24, 2012, 07:17:39 PM
why do i imagine Oprah yelling: And you get a new card, and you get a new card, and you get a new card, everyone gets new cards! ...?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 24, 2012, 07:21:29 PM
why do i imagine Oprah yelling: And you get a new card, and you get a new card, and you get a new card, everyone gets new cards! ...?

lmao.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jocko on December 24, 2012, 07:24:46 PM
why do i imagine Oprah yelling: And you get a new card, and you get a new card, and you get a new card, everyone gets new cards! ...?
Internets to you sir.
I want to see the effect of the in element shards in the arena.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 24, 2012, 08:43:56 PM
why do i imagine Oprah yelling: And you get a new card, and you get a new card, and you get a new card, everyone gets new cards! ...?
Internets to you sir.
I want to see the effect of the in element shards in the arena.
Imagine if all the Kong players don't notice the cost changes and continue to auto-shove 12 sofo in every single deck. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: andretimpa on December 24, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
why do i imagine Oprah yelling: And you get a new card, and you get a new card, and you get a new card, everyone gets new cards! ...?
Internets to you sir.
I want to see the effect of the in element shards in the arena.
Imagine if all the Kong players don't notice the cost changes and continue to auto-shove 12 sofo in every single deck. :)

I wonder what will happen to the decks that are on the arena, the day the version changes
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 24, 2012, 10:15:15 PM
Now, 2 days without news about Zanz seem an eternity
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on December 25, 2012, 01:18:52 AM
Now, 2 days without news about Zanz seem an eternity
lol  :D, now imagine the next few months.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 25, 2012, 01:30:42 AM
Now, 2 days without news about Zanz seem an eternity
lol  :D, now imagine the next few months.
We already experienced that sort of thing leading up to the 1.32 announcement.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 25, 2012, 01:34:48 AM
Now, 2 days without news about Zanz seem an eternity
lol  :D, now imagine the next few months.
We already experienced that sort of thing leading up to the 1.32 announcement.

Whoa, deja vu.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 25, 2012, 03:15:00 AM
Now, 2 days without news about Zanz seem an eternity
lol  :D, now imagine the next few months.
We already experienced that sort of thing leading up to the 1.32 announcement.

Whoa, deja vu.
Let's not SoR this one.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 25, 2012, 04:03:01 AM
also worth mentioning ajit made new art for chaos seed:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42878.0.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: vrt on December 25, 2012, 04:42:51 AM
And number two..

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/elements/phasesalvager.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 25, 2012, 04:45:18 AM
personally i wouldnt call that number two, but everyone is their own toughest critic.  me gusta.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 25, 2012, 04:47:22 AM
It obviously has to be Life.

TBH, Air could also enjoy something new after Sky Blitz. And Darkness.

Life would make the most use of a new card.  Water was first, and as you can see it is getting one.  To be fair, Darkness and Air each seems to be missing a strong soft synergy card (I know someone is going to jump out and scream a card that is simply not coming to mind), except for Flying Weapon, since it can fall under the description as typically a 'rare-based supplement card'.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on December 25, 2012, 04:48:39 AM
I'd put the art in card form, but vrt said my laptop sucks and can't compress the art correctly. :p
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 25, 2012, 04:49:34 AM
And here we stand in awe of our vrt.

/me begins a slow clap.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on December 25, 2012, 04:57:10 AM
fairly accurate:
(http://i.imgur.com/YA8u6.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 25, 2012, 04:59:25 AM
fairly accurate:
(http://i.imgur.com/YA8u6.png)

Seems legit
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Atico on December 25, 2012, 09:26:37 AM
I saw in Tapatalk that we have a discuss about 1.32 so I would also say something.

I didn't play this game since few months (sometimes I use Oracle for fun) and this patch is fantastic answer why this game is bad. It isn't good when new patch can destroy strategy and whole sense of few decks. I like patches with new cards (new cards are great), I like simple changes like this with Thunderstorm, but changing like Shards... Sorry, a lot of people talked few months ago that Shards should be elemental, non other. When we create Shards this fact was suggested by most of players. But ok, Zanz wanted non-elemental Shards so ability of this cards was maked for Other element. Now this decision is changed... Now a lot of Shards has got stupid ability, bad for their strategy. What is more - You nerf SoR (So it is 3rd type of SoR in a year - no comment) and buff SoP instead. So instead Instosis now we will see Fractal Sparks, fantastic. I guess that in patch 1.33 or 1.34 we will have nerf of SoP ;) Why this game can't be balanced? The best example of no-sense changes is with LightNymph - Was 9/9, later 1/9, now 7/9 :) It is like lottery, You have good deck - update - Your deck is unuseful. Sorry for this words, but I wanted to say something about this. This game has got fantastic potential, but some decisions are annoying for players and I understand them.

This game needs more cards and less "big decisions".
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 25, 2012, 10:09:45 AM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 25, 2012, 10:37:12 AM
I would very much like mono decks worked just as good as a rainbow deck. Forcing me to use foreign elements to maximize a deck's efficiency causes neglect in individual cards of whatever element I am using right now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 25, 2012, 10:57:04 AM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.

Ditto this.  The SoR change Zanz is proposing would fix that card even if it were left in other.  Shards of sacrifice and focus would still need balancing, but the rest of them I think are largely fine as is.  The new gravity shard of focus is more balanced than it was, but by balancing it, the other shards are suffering by being removed from other.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 25, 2012, 11:21:36 AM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.

Ditto this.  The SoR change Zanz is proposing would fix that card even if it were left in other.  Shards of sacrifice and focus would still need balancing, but the rest of them I think are largely fine as is.  The new gravity shard of focus is more balanced than it was, but by balancing it, the other shards are suffering by being removed from other.

So much true.
SoD was important because it is healing for any element. SoR was important because it could fit any duo to make it mono.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 25, 2012, 12:41:27 PM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.

i second that, but then again, it's a new challenge
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Assassine on December 25, 2012, 01:22:56 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2

does that mean instosis is now useless and i wasted a shitton of electrum building it? :(
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 25, 2012, 01:26:44 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2

does that mean instosis is now useless and i wasted a shitton of electrum building it? :(

"Instosis is dead now" - Several members.
Oh well, some new killer combos could be discovered.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 25, 2012, 01:28:18 PM
Shard of readiness will let a :time creature use its skill twice in a turn - just like before - but no more than twice, cost reduced to 3/2

does that mean instosis is now useless and i wasted a shitton of electrum building it? :(
It has been twicked as a 9-card combo. You are right, imo.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Assassine on December 25, 2012, 01:30:05 PM
great. there goes the last two months of work, just in time for me to finish but never actually use the deck. sigh.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 25, 2012, 01:34:55 PM
great. there goes the last two months of work, just in time for me to finish but never actually use the deck. sigh.
You still have time to use it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Assassine on December 25, 2012, 02:05:26 PM
Still, its wasted 45.000 electrum, which is huge pile of cash for me. Should be able to sell cards for full value if such gamebreaking changes come up =/
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Tiko on December 25, 2012, 02:27:51 PM
Stop your whining. Your time and electrum is far from wasted, as most of the cards the deck consists of are pretty much the basics of other powerful farmers/deck-archetypes. Also, why the urge for going straight for the 'cookie-cutter'? You'd probably get bored with it soon enough anyway.

The change of SoR will be a really nice refreshment for the game in general.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 25, 2012, 02:34:55 PM
zanzarino   02:32:16 PM   Viewing the board index of Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game.



Excitement. Also, merry Christmas Zanz.
Get into chat soon!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 25, 2012, 02:55:45 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 25, 2012, 02:56:14 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.
Merry christmas Zanz!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on December 25, 2012, 02:57:32 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Merry Christmas!
I also hope that in chat ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 25, 2012, 03:00:04 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.
Mery christmas and happy holidays!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 25, 2012, 03:12:17 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

happy holidays
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 25, 2012, 03:42:10 PM
just thought of something (i'm sure someone else has too) phase salvager+dim shields+quintensence+earth mark, salvaging's cost should really be more than 1 earth and maybe make it another element creature instead of aether, cause i can already see how that will affect arena lol, aether/earth deckout's everywhere
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 25, 2012, 03:44:08 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

I can't wait to see all the people who ask where Zanz is in the next week :p  Enjoy your holidays, Mr. Zanzarino :)  (and everyone else too!)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 25, 2012, 03:51:30 PM
just thought of something (i'm sure someone else has too) phase salvager+dim shields+quintensence+earth mark, salvaging's cost should really be more than 1 earth and maybe make it another element creature instead of aether, cause i can already see how that will affect arena lol, aether/earth deckout's everywhere
"Salvage: Restore a permanent destroyed by your OPONENT
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 25, 2012, 03:59:52 PM
just thought of something (i'm sure someone else has too) phase salvager+dim shields+quintensence+earth mark, salvaging's cost should really be more than 1 earth and maybe make it another element creature instead of aether, cause i can already see how that will affect arena lol, aether/earth deckout's everywhere
"Salvage: Restore a permanent destroyed by your OPONENT

nevermind me
(http://www.spreekbeurten.info/ezel4.gif)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on December 25, 2012, 04:03:23 PM
A little suggestion, since people haven't ask:
Make reward codes usable to change in-game name.
Reason: some people are stuck in an offensive username, and they might want to change their name (for Arena)
Some people want to use another username but don't want to use alts for grinding and nymph reason

Thanks.
Also, merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on December 25, 2012, 05:36:10 PM
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Its a Christmas miracle.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 25, 2012, 07:01:04 PM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.

Note that they are still quite cheap, so a mark could run maybe 3 effectively, more for the 1 cost ones.  The thing that making elements cost :underworld adress that while being easily splashable, it was indeed getting out of hand at how easily so.

Also, hoping for a Shard of Integrity redesign.  Running a Nova-Shard deck is rather hard now, and SoI feels off-theme, being the most dependent of other Shards.  Perhaps instead of shards, a regard to the tier value of a card?  It would buff the general shard combo, but allow for a minimal rare use.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 25, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
The problem with shards was cards like Supernova, Nova, Cremation and Quantum towers. The shards would get out of hand too easily, and also gave these cards power and they did not need. IT required one of 2 things to be done. Overly nerf the shards/the cards that let you use them easily and make shards hardly seen, or make the shards op. Since they were Rare, OP was the obvious direction to go instead since then they would see use. They also had 1 fatal flaw. They were balanced towards rainbows. They had to be since otherwise they would be op. In other words they were often times too cheap to use in a rainbow, and too expensive to use in a mono. Now they can all be modified to be more balanced and still give the desired effect.

Edit

BTW Im aware there were solution to this such as making shards require all of 1 element to be used, but this would have to effect ALL other cards and not just shards, otherwise a whole new element would have to be made.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: andretimpa on December 25, 2012, 10:02:59 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Could this mean more changes are on their way?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 25, 2012, 10:09:25 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Could this mean more changes are on their way?

The man has holidays to celebrate. Let's have a SoP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on December 25, 2012, 10:24:05 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Could this mean more changes are on their way?

The man has holidays to celebrate. Let's have a SoP.
Not just a shard. A whole ... what are these shards of anyway...?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 25, 2012, 10:26:33 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Could this mean more changes are on their way?

The man has holidays to celebrate. Let's have a Shard of Patience.
Not just a shard. A whole ... what are these shards of anyway...?

Fixed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 25, 2012, 10:29:08 PM
He knows that. He's saying we need a whole (complete) patience instead of a shard (incomplete) patience.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 25, 2012, 10:31:03 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

Could this mean more changes are on their way?

The man has holidays to celebrate. Let's have a SoP.
Not just a shard. A whole ... what are these shards of anyway...?

For lore, I'd imagine an ordinary crystal.  When shattered, the shards became unstable, and, to reattain and stability, absorbed elemental energies.  I feel a card idea coming on...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 25, 2012, 10:32:20 PM
He knows that. He's saying we need a whole (complete) patience instead of a shard (incomplete) patience.

Too bad they don't stack.
/pun
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 26, 2012, 02:45:27 AM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.

Note that they are still quite cheap, so a mark could run maybe 3 effectively, more for the 1 cost ones.  The thing that making elements cost :underworld adress that while being easily splashable, it was indeed getting out of hand at how easily so.

Also, hoping for a Shard of Integrity redesign.  Running a Nova-Shard deck is rather hard now, and SoI feels off-theme, being the most dependent of other Shards.  Perhaps instead of shards, a regard to the tier value of a card?  It would buff the general shard combo, but allow for a minimal rare use.

There is little trio support in Elements, so if you want to, say, splash SoG into a ghostal, you're going to have to use an unweildy deck in 1.32.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 26, 2012, 02:57:02 AM
The problem with shards was cards like Supernova, Nova, Cremation and Quantum towers. The shards would get out of hand too easily, and also gave these cards power and they did not need. IT required one of 2 things to be done. Overly nerf the shards/the cards that let you use them easily and make shards hardly seen, or make the shards op. Since they were Rare, OP was the obvious direction to go instead since then they would see use. They also had 1 fatal flaw. They were balanced towards rainbows. They had to be since otherwise they would be op. In other words they were often times too cheap to use in a rainbow, and too expensive to use in a mono. Now they can all be modified to be more balanced and still give the desired effect.

Edit

BTW Im aware there were solution to this such as making shards require all of 1 element to be used, but this would have to effect ALL other cards and not just shards, otherwise a whole new element would have to be made.
Other cards can be balanced for rainbows, decks using the aligned element, and other decks. I'll take SoG as an example to show.
Rainbows didn't need to use SoG for healing. They could use cards such as Sanct and Bond for their healing, and those cards were often used, as they made up for their quanta cost inefficiency with their capacity.
Life-based decks often didn't need healing, and life decks that did use healing could make an even choice between SoG, bond, and heal. SoG provided something evenly matched with them, and it wasn't more powerful than them, even with the mark bonus.
Other decks that needed healing could stretch SoG's modest healing with cards that stretched the number of turns survived, letting it be worth its cost.
So SoG was balanced in all 3 cases. Similar arguments can be made for most of the other balanced shards.
Comments?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 26, 2012, 03:14:42 AM
Healing is an easy effect to balance (and its still better in rainbows, which are primarily considered to be too powerful even without shards)

Healing doesnt deny an opponent, so an early heal is nothing special (aside from annoying). PC on the other hand, is a denial strategy, and balancing it in   :rainbow is next to impossible without making it impossible to use in a mono. Cards that influence you alone are prefectly easy to balance in a mono because any speed boost it has from being mono wont matter early game. Making the shards elemental allows them to keep more special effects, without being (as) broken.

Edit
Ultimately, taking them out of other allows them to be more unique. Im not saying they wouldnt work in other, but they have more flexibility with it having an affinity.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: mwaetht on December 26, 2012, 03:17:14 AM
Rainbows didn't need to use SoG for healing. They could use cards such as Sanct and Bond for their healing, and those cards were often used, as they made up for their quanta cost inefficiency with their capacity.

So they aren't balanced in rainbows; they can't be used in rainbows, because 3 per turn for one card is nothing compared to, say, Sanctuary, which gives four per turn and protection from quanta/hand denial. You don't need to play SoG quickly, so the fact that it can be played more quickly than Sanctuary is irrelevant. Using a life mark for it limits the applicability of this card to life-based rainbows.

SoG is not useful in most rainbows because it doesn't need to be played quickly; that is, the fact that it is other is not a big advantage for its use in rainbows versus non-life mono decks, unlike many other shards.

(Ninja'd)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 26, 2012, 03:22:40 AM
Ultimately people just dont like change. All I heard people say before the notes is that elements such as fire shouldnt have access to healing. Oh, you changed it so that it doesnt? Fire should have access to healing. How dare you take that away Zanz.

Give Zanz a break, this isnt his job he doesnt have to update the game, and even though Im sure he always expects it, he doesnt need constant complaining when HE changes HIS game to a way HE likes more. Especially when it doesnt break it, it just changes it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 26, 2012, 03:40:51 AM
Let me bring back my often-repeated suggestion for SoFo:
5/4. 0|5. Accretion: Destroy target permanent, gain 0|10, and generate a black hole (upped for upped version)
And I'll make the sort of argument I made earlier.
Rainbows can already pack PC without using this card. This card needs a turn's wait to use, and it can be taken down during that turn, counterbalancing the playing speed of the card. Voodoo doll can similarly be packed for a high HP creature without attack instead of this, and black hole can similarly be packed instead of this for denial. A rainbow deck that did all three would be plagued with bad focus, counterbalancing the compactness of SoFo.
Gravity decks don't need PC as much, as they have denial, momentum, and catapult, alternatives for it. Gravity already has high HP creatures and denial, so this card is mostly useful as a card riskily packing 3 things into the same package.
Other decks come in 2 categories:
Some decks are desperate for PC, making the high cost worth it.
Other decks that could make use of the creature already can use PC, so this would be useful just for the 15 HP creature at the end.
Both of those would have to put up with a dead card in the hand.

Comments?


Ultimately, taking them out of other allows them to be more unique. Im not saying they wouldnt work in other, but they have more flexibility with it having an affinity.
No element is complete. Light doesn't have CC. Darkness doesn't have a more efficient rush creature than Gargoyle. Life doesn't have a way to get around a shield already in play. Death can't heal. Fire doesn't have a creature with more resilience than either phoenix or fire nymph. Water can't kill a creature with more than a fifth of the water quanta it has in HP. Air is helpless to denial. Earth can't do much about soft CC. Time is back to square one if the opponent catches up. Aether can't do much about shields. Gravity is easily outrushed. Entropy isn't strong without the RNG's favor.
The shards will be less unique rather than more, as they give something not given by any other means besides loads of more cards. They help complete elements.


Administrator Comment Please don't double post. Thank you.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 26, 2012, 04:43:46 AM
Ultimately, taking them out of other allows them to be more unique. Im not saying they wouldnt work in other, but they have more flexibility with it having an affinity.
No element is complete.

snip

The shards will be less unique rather than more, as they give something not given by any other means besides loads of more cards. They help complete elements.

No element is meant to be complete. Darkness waits in the shadow and drains you, it doesnt rush out and blitz you. Life brings... well life. Not destruction. There will be 2 types of people. Those that think all elements should be able to do everything, and those that think they should be restricted to fit a theme unless they splash. Only 1 kind will be happy with this change. This isnt an argument about which is better for the game, this is an argument of personal preference.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on December 26, 2012, 06:26:20 AM
Ultimately people just dont like change. All I heard people say before the notes is that elements such as fire shouldnt have access to healing. Oh, you changed it so that it doesnt? Fire should have access to healing. How dare you take that away Zanz.

Give Zanz a break, this isnt his job he doesnt have to update the game, and even though Im sure he always expects it, he doesnt need constant complaining when HE changes HIS game to a way HE likes more. Especially when it doesnt break it, it just changes it.

Funny misconception. Complaints are always easier to find than satisfaction. The number of people who dislike change is much smaller than the number of people who are happy with it. "Haters" are just louder than the rest of us.

I personally never cared what changes came, because every change that has happened has opened up new strategies. I'm the kind of person who could never do 1000 games with the same deck. I got change it up and try new things all the time. Same reason I spend countless hours in Card Ideas with no hope of getting one through. New is good.

Zanz is the boss, but that's not the only reason he should be in charge. I think he knows what he's doing.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 26, 2012, 08:50:31 AM
bluepriest is right, no element is suposed to be "complete" and how could they? almost every card effect in elements can be explained in some way, a crusader is a knight, so it's logical that he can pick up a weapon and swing it, water creatures can breathe under water, so it's logical that they survive flooding, and to bring back the "fire should have healing" example, how are you suposed to explain healing wounds with an open flame? last time i checked you can only inflict wounds with fire
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 26, 2012, 09:19:20 AM
bluepriest is right, no element is suposed to be "complete" and how could they? almost every card effect in elements can be explained in some way, a crusader is a knight, so it's logical that he can pick up a weapon and swing it, water creatures can breathe under water, so it's logical that they survive flooding, and to bring back the "fire should have healing" example, how are you suposed to explain healing wounds with an open flame? last time i checked you can only inflict wounds with fire

Just in defense of thematics, cauterization can be seen as a form of 'healing,' but only by burning away infected flesh.

However, you can't just go about completing Elements.  Because then there is no clear difference between them and destroys the purpose of even separating them.

But this is a separate conversation altogether.  This thread is just for the latest patch.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 26, 2012, 09:23:38 AM
bluepriest is right, no element is suposed to be "complete" and how could they? almost every card effect in elements can be explained in some way, a crusader is a knight, so it's logical that he can pick up a weapon and swing it, water creatures can breathe under water, so it's logical that they survive flooding, and to bring back the "fire should have healing" example, how are you suposed to explain healing wounds with an open flame? last time i checked you can only inflict wounds with fire

Just in defense of thematics, cauterization can be seen as a form of 'healing,' but only by burning away infected flesh.

However, you can't just go about completing Elements.  Because then there is no clear difference between them and destroys the purpose of even separating them.

But this is a separate conversation altogether.  This thread is just for the latest patch.

oh yeah, forgot that, thx, and yeah you're right, but i felt like i had to say something, not that many people pay atention to me
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 26, 2012, 10:02:07 AM
I take it that new artwork for the Salvagers hasn't been implemented...yet.
Finding non-copyrighted art must be a non-easy task.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 26, 2012, 10:19:01 AM
Theres a good reason I say, "If it ain't broke, don't wreck it."
My opinion is, although some shards were op, their concept wasn't. Monoing them deprives the game of what shards offered: an easy way to splash an effect, whenever it be healing, mass boosting, or PC, into any deck that needs it.

Ditto this.  The SoR change Zanz is proposing would fix that card even if it were left in other.  Shards of sacrifice and focus would still need balancing, but the rest of them I think are largely fine as is.  The new gravity shard of focus is more balanced than it was, but by balancing it, the other shards are suffering by being removed from other.

So much true.
SoD was important because it is healing for any element. SoR was important because it could fit any duo to make it mono.


Here. This is exactly why I love having in-element shards, and hated wholeheartedly colorless shards.

This game is Elements the Game. Having unique elements, each with its own characteristics is important. Shards dilute that concept, which is one of the strongest concepts in this game, and make sure each element is way less unique. Having healing for every element is NOT a good idea. In fact, it's a bad idea, for a slew of reasons. More on this is explained pretty well here (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr85).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 26, 2012, 11:54:56 AM
I take it that new artwork for the Salvagers hasn't been implemented...yet.
Finding non-copyrighted art must be a non-easy task.
They're (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45197.msg1024428.html#msg1024428) done (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45197.msg1025437.html#msg1025437), courtesy of vrt.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 26, 2012, 03:32:03 PM
I take it that new artwork for the Salvagers hasn't been implemented...yet.
Finding non-copyrighted art must be a non-easy task.
They're (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45197.msg1024428.html#msg1024428) done (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45197.msg1025437.html#msg1025437), courtesy of vrt.

however this
Merry Christmas Everyone!
I am out of town for a few days but I'll be back January the 2nd.

So it will be a few days before they are technically implemented.

bluepriest is right, no element is suposed to be "complete" and how could they? almost every card effect in elements can be explained in some way, a crusader is a knight, so it's logical that he can pick up a weapon and swing it, water creatures can breathe under water, so it's logical that they survive flooding, and to bring back the "fire should have healing" example, how are you suposed to explain healing wounds with an open flame? last time i checked you can only inflict wounds with fire

Just in defense of thematics, cauterization can be seen as a form of 'healing,' but only by burning away infected flesh.

However, you can't just go about completing Elements.  Because then there is no clear difference between them and destroys the purpose of even separating them.

But this is a separate conversation altogether.  This thread is just for the latest patch.

oh yeah, forgot that, thx, and yeah you're right, but i felt like i had to say something, not that many people pay atention to me


Who said that? jkjk.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rosutosefi on December 26, 2012, 04:47:32 PM
At first glance, I think SoI, SoR and SoSe will be somewhat underpowered, SoBe will need some kind of a nerf and Vampire art is too OP. But I don't know, too lazy to test.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 26, 2012, 05:11:12 PM
SoSe won't be practical in decks we use. But it could fit well in Dream Catcher and arena decks with 3x :entropy mark.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: sirwoofy on December 26, 2012, 07:19:42 PM
i like the card additions. it will be fun to put them to use.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: iancudorinmarian on December 26, 2012, 08:33:58 PM
SoSe won't be practical in decks we use. But it could fit well in Dream Catcher and arena decks with 3x :entropy mark.
you can still use 2-3 in any rainbow
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 26, 2012, 11:55:57 PM
SoSe won't be practical in decks we use. But it could fit well in Dream Catcher and arena decks with 3x :entropy mark.

Supernova is the advantage that :entropy has with this shard. It is one of the few elements that can stay purely mono and still get quanta from other elements.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Bonestorm on December 27, 2012, 02:04:08 AM
More love for the sick new art!

& I recall seeing that Dessication card long ago and admiring it!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 27, 2012, 09:27:24 AM
When I talked about element completeness, I wasn't talking about the elements all being the same. I was trying to say that the elements should be able to deal with the same things. It is completely fine for water to not do everything, but it's not fine when all a mono water can do against a phase sheild is slam the space bar.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 27, 2012, 09:41:31 AM
When I talked about element completeness, I wasn't talking about the elements all being the same. I was trying to say that the elements should be able to deal with the same things. It is completely fine for water to not do everything, but it's not fine when all a mono water can do against a phase sheild is slam the space bar.

Yes, but where's your justification for that? What's wrong with Ice Bolt? What's wrong with using a duo deck?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 27, 2012, 09:48:46 AM
When I talked about element completeness, I wasn't talking about the elements all being the same. I was trying to say that the elements should be able to deal with the same things. It is completely fine for water to not do everything, but it's not fine when all a mono water can do against a phase sheild is slam the space bar.

if all elements where able to deal with the same things then they would all have PC CC etc, then they would be the same, just difrent cards but with the same effect
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheAccuso on December 27, 2012, 09:57:41 AM
When I talked about element completeness, I wasn't talking about the elements all being the same. I was trying to say that the elements should be able to deal with the same things. It is completely fine for water to not do everything, but it's not fine when all a mono water can do against a phase sheild is slam the space bar.

if all elements where able to deal with the same things then they would all have PC CC etc, then they would be the same, just difrent cards but with the same effect
I think that you got to get the point of view of eaglgenes here.
The world isn't all white or black(talkin about absolutysm is easy and pointless), mostly is grey and in some cases(as mono water against a monoaether) is definitely one of this two extremes without any point of grey.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on December 27, 2012, 10:12:21 AM
Different cards with the same effect is the basis for everything. Every single creature is just a different card with the same effect of doing damage. Every spell is a different card with the same effect of modifying something in the game.

Giving every element deflag isn't the answer. Giving every element steal isn't the answer. But that's why we have cards like Butterfly effect, pulverizer, hell even sofo. Different ways of dealing with the same thing. A specific monowater should be able to beat a specific mono aether.

Elements that are able to do everything aren't a bad thing. Its when elements are doing the same thing the same way over and over it's a bad thing.


Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 27, 2012, 10:29:04 AM
Different cards with the same effect is the basis for everything. Every single creature is just a different card with the same effect of doing damage. Every spell is a different card with the same effect of modifying something in the game.

Giving every element deflag isn't the answer. Giving every element steal isn't the answer. But that's why we have cards like Butterfly effect, pulverizer, hell even sofo. Different ways of dealing with the same thing. A specific monowater should be able to beat a specific mono aether.

Elements that are able to do everything aren't a bad thing. Its when elements are doing the same thing the same way over and over it's a bad thing.

you have a point, but i still think that not all elements should be able to do everything, that makes the game more intresting imo,  every element has it's strenghts and weaknesses and imo when every elements can do the same things in their own way then it gets a bit boring
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 27, 2012, 10:41:18 AM
Still, what is team water to do against team aether in war when it runs dimsields?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 27, 2012, 10:57:51 AM
Still, what is team water to do against team aether in war when it runs dimsields?

make a duo deck? team water isn't 100% restricted to water cards
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Higurashi on December 27, 2012, 10:59:46 AM
It usually runs Fire, Death and Darkness duos :p

Monowater can deal with it too, and quite well compared to other monos. Ice Shield, Ice Bolts and Chrysaora are all within mono, since you can have a Death mark and still be a mono. If you want a better example, pick Monotime. That's the hardest counter among any elemental opposites. Even Life and Gravity have a chance, but Monotime could only hope to deck out with SoG's, Dials and Turtle Shield. Disallowing Shards, it has no chance whatsoever. Same goes for Monoair without SoFree, except it's at least easier for that to rush and finish off with Shockwaves. Still extremely unlikely.

Regardless, we need more unique in-element cards for balance. I'm extremely happy the Shards are becoming in-element now. It's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 27, 2012, 11:04:05 AM
It usually runs Fire, Death and Darkness duos :p

Monowater can deal with it too, and quite well compared to other monos. Ice Shield, Ice Bolts and Chrysaora are all within mono, since you can have a Death mark and still be a mono. If you want a better example, pick Monotime. That's the hardest counter among any elemental opposites. Even Life and Gravity have a chance, but Monotime could only hope to deck out with SoG's, Dials and Turtle Shield. Disallowing Shards, it has no chance whatsoever. Same goes for Monoair without SoFree, except it's at least easier for that to rush and finish off with Shockwaves. Still extremely unlikely.

Regardless, we need more unique in-element cards for balance. I'm extremely happy the Shards are becoming in-element now. It's a step in the right direction.

i agree, some shards will finally be normalized, and the arena will be free of mono light decks with miracle and sosac or even worse, sosac decks with focus lol
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 27, 2012, 11:07:53 AM
It usually runs Fire, Death and Darkness duos :p

Monowater can deal with it too, and quite well compared to other monos. Ice Shield, Ice Bolts and Chrysaora are all within mono, since you can have a Death mark and still be a mono. If you want a better example, pick Monotime. That's the hardest counter among any elemental opposites. Even Life and Gravity have a chance, but Monotime could only hope to deck out with SoG's, Dials and Turtle Shield. Disallowing Shards, it has no chance whatsoever. Same goes for Monoair without SoFree, except it's at least easier for that to rush and finish off with Shockwaves. Still extremely unlikely.

Regardless, we need more unique in-element cards for balance. I'm extremely happy the Shards are becoming in-element now. It's a step in the right direction.

i agree, some shards will finally be normalized, and the arena will be free of mono light decks with miracle and sosac or even worse, sosac decks with focus lol
Nope, not exactly. Arena decks can easily be duos. But still.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 27, 2012, 11:24:56 AM
It usually runs Fire, Death and Darkness duos :p

Monowater can deal with it too, and quite well compared to other monos. Ice Shield, Ice Bolts and Chrysaora are all within mono, since you can have a Death mark and still be a mono. If you want a better example, pick Monotime. That's the hardest counter among any elemental opposites. Even Life and Gravity have a chance, but Monotime could only hope to deck out with SoG's, Dials and Turtle Shield. Disallowing Shards, it has no chance whatsoever. Same goes for Monoair without SoFree, except it's at least easier for that to rush and finish off with Shockwaves. Still extremely unlikely.

Regardless, we need more unique in-element cards for balance. I'm extremely happy the Shards are becoming in-element now. It's a step in the right direction.

i agree, some shards will finally be normalized, and the arena will be free of mono light decks with miracle and sosac or even worse, sosac decks with focus lol
Nope, not exactly. Arena decks can easily be duos. But still.

yes, but i meant those decks with absolutely no sign of gravity having focus, thats stupid isn't it? you just end up with dead cards in your hand
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 27, 2012, 04:07:15 PM
Still, what is team water to do against team aether in war when it runs dimsields?

Chysora...
Ice Bolt....

There will be some elements that counter other elements. Thats not a bad thing, it just shows the importance of synergy.


Some things it has going for it...
Flooding will limit aether to just 5 creatures.
Permafrost Shield means theres just a 17% chance of all of the creatures getting through without being frozen. The 2 damage it reduces also essentialy means that only 4 creatures even attacked (and thats assuming you are using dragons which only do a minuscule 10 dmg each).
Even if didnt freeze anyone that turn, according to the law of probabilities you have  a 49 % chance a creature to  freeze them.

Lets say though, the opposing team was smart, and knew they were facing water. They put 5 psions in their deck. Well, they should also put 5 quints in to protect them. You have good CC. Ice bolt, and puffer fish can both dmg  them (albeit you would need :air mark to be able to run the inflate ability.) Thats also a 2 card combo which would take them several turns to not only get the 7 :aether for each psion (not even talking about dim shields aether cost), but would also take a long time to get the 10 required cards to get a full field. Then you get a grand total of 25 dmg output.
Aethers biggest drawback is that it is either slow and defensive, or fast and frail. Phase recluses are great for rushing, but against CC they fall too easily.

Now dont get me wrong, im not saying that water>aether, im just saying that it isnt nearly as hopeless as you are making it seem.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ChickenMayBite on December 27, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
 :-\ I dont like the new water card, it'll probably be very used with maligant cell decks now and might become OP. The shards, however, may prove more useful to rainbow decks than before, seeing as how SoV, SoFr, etc. cost 1 quanta to use. SoFo will be less common, and I am excited. Instaghost will be patched, which kinda sucks but screw it, I'll find a new deck. The Shrieker art looks good (better than what I can draw :p) but I liked the old one a bit more. Overall, the update will be very interesting...  
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 27, 2012, 04:47:23 PM
:-\ I dont like the new water card, it'll probably be very used with maligant cell decks now and might become OP.

Sorry bud, gonna have to disagree with you here. "Aflatoxin+Dessication" is a two-card combo that does nothing but generate water quanta. With water quanta, there isn't much unless you can do aside from Fractal+Dragon and Ice Lances. In that case, why did you even bother with the two Aflatoxins and all that Death quanta they required when you could just pack some Water Towers?

In what you suggest is the most overpowered scenario, Dessication is more underpowered than a zero-cost pillar. I'd like to think of its main use as CC, and while it may not be balanced it is certainly not overpowered.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on December 27, 2012, 04:52:07 PM
:-\ I dont like the new water card, it'll probably be very used with maligant cell decks now and might become OP. The shards, however, may prove more useful to rainbow decks than before, seeing as how SoV, SoFr, etc. cost 1 quanta to use. SoFo will be less common, and I am excited. Instaghost will be patched, which kinda sucks but screw it, I'll find a new deck. The Shrieker art looks good (better than what I can draw :p) but I liked the old one a bit more. Overall, the update will be very interesting...
What?Seriously, in the current form I don't see it even close to OP. I also expect a bigger nerf to SoSac, it's easily splashable atm, which makes it almost as OP as before, since it doesn't screw the mulligan anymore.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 27, 2012, 06:10:42 PM
:-\ I dont like the new water card, it'll probably be very used with maligant cell decks now and might become OP. The shards, however, may prove more useful to rainbow decks than before, seeing as how SoV, SoFr, etc. cost 1 quanta to use. SoFo will be less common, and I am excited. Instaghost will be patched, which kinda sucks but fuck it, I'll find a new deck. The Shrieker art looks good (better than what I can draw :p) but I liked the old one a bit more. Overall, the update will be very interesting...
What?Seriously, in the current form I don't see it even close to OP. I also expect a bigger nerf to SoSac, it's easily splashable atm, which makes it almost as OP as before, since it doesn't screw the mulligan anymore.
Forgetting death triggers? Still not OP until proofs saying I am wrong
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on December 27, 2012, 06:24:02 PM
Forgetting death triggers?

Death triggers with Dessication? That's a death/water duo or a OTKbow.
Unless you prove a deck that uses Dessication that can be at least used in competitive PvP and isn't just a OTKdeck that has the combo cards changed I'll agree that Dessication is good.

Still not OP until proofs saying I am wrong.

At what card was this directed?
If at SoSac then use some SoSac in a monodeath rush and see how you suddenly beat other rushes constantly.
If at Dessication then loooool.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 27, 2012, 07:01:21 PM
Poor SoSac. Needing a nerf when removing all quanta sans death is annoying enough for me.
Now, I mentioned something about monos needing love before. How ironic.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Tiko on December 27, 2012, 07:33:54 PM
I dont like the new water card, it'll probably be very used with maligant cell decks now and might become OP.

Heh. The problem is, it seems that currently the only useful strategy with it is only with Malignant Cells, and even then (like others said before me), calling it OP is quite a joke. It *could* help a bit with Fractal (upped) if everything goes perfect, but you certainly shouldn't rely on it.

Not to mention that even Thunderstorm is much more useful now..
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Phaser on December 27, 2012, 07:47:19 PM
Wait, since Shard of Readiness is to be nerfed, does that mean Instosis doesn't work anymore? And when is 1.32 coming out?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 27, 2012, 07:49:33 PM
Wait, since Shard of Readiness is to be nerfed, does that mean Instosis doesn't work anymore? And when is 1.32 coming out?

Instosis can still be tweaked to an 8+1 card combo with 3 SoRs.
But yeah, it's pretty much dead.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 27, 2012, 08:09:01 PM
For real games, anyway.
You could probably recreate a similar otk to Instosis in an observed laboratory - the trainer. But then, what can't you?
I'm sure these tweaks won't be in vain. Combo research, on the double!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on December 27, 2012, 08:24:32 PM
Wait, since Shard of Readiness is to be nerfed, does that mean Instosis doesn't work anymore? And when is 1.32 coming out?

A loophole in the nerf is that you replace one of the Shards with 2 Twin Universes, meaning you have different MitoDragons to use the rest of the SoR on.  Less reliable with the extra 6 :time and need for an extra card, but it still works.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 27, 2012, 09:07:39 PM
Wait, since Shard of Readiness is to be nerfed, does that mean Instosis doesn't work anymore? And when is 1.32 coming out?

there will be more than enough new combos within the month i can assure you, forum is full of geniusses who think up and post ingenius combo's, and in the meantime, pestal can get you some wins VS false gods, in my experience it has a winrate of roughly 50% (and i use a version with aether and darkness towers and not the superior version with pendulums)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on December 28, 2012, 05:29:53 AM
Wait, since Shard of Readiness is to be nerfed, does that mean Instosis doesn't work anymore? And when is 1.32 coming out?

there will be more than enough new combos within the month i can assure you, forum is full of geniusses who think up and post ingenius combo's, and in the meantime, pestal can get you some wins VS false gods, in my experience it has a winrate of roughly 50% (and i use a version with aether and darkness towers and not the superior version with pendulums)
Hmmm... I use supposedly 'superior' pendulum version Pestal101, and yet my winrate is lower than 50%. Maybe you are forgetting some losses?
Or maybe you just got lucky and need to try playing some more? For example, my shrieker rush has a 100% winrate vs FG's with a 1 game test.

Also, I have been thinking of a FFQ/hope with unupped FFQ (upped everything else) and I'm glad to know that 1.32 won't affect the SoFr in the deck.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on December 28, 2012, 05:34:36 AM
my shrieker rush has a 100% winrate vs FG's with a 1 game test.
Which FG?

FFQ/Hope is buffed since 1.31, as one of my guides show. With SoFr, it's even stronger. (though, i'm not sure it could be used to farm FG)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 28, 2012, 07:35:13 AM
Wait, since Shard of Readiness is to be nerfed, does that mean Instosis doesn't work anymore? And when is 1.32 coming out?

there will be more than enough new combos within the month i can assure you, forum is full of geniusses who think up and post ingenius combo's, and in the meantime, pestal can get you some wins VS false gods, in my experience it has a winrate of roughly 50% (and i use a version with aether and darkness towers and not the superior version with pendulums)
Hmmm... I use supposedly 'superior' pendulum version Pestal101, and yet my winrate is lower than 50%. Maybe you are forgetting some losses?
Or maybe you just got lucky and need to try playing some more? For example, my shrieker rush has a 100% winrate vs FG's with a 1 game test.

Also, I have been thinking of a FFQ/hope with unupped FFQ (upped everything else) and I'm glad to know that 1.32 won't affect the SoFr in the deck.

from what i hear the version with pends is beter, so i called it superior, and i'm not forgetting any losses i can assure you
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marvaddin on December 28, 2012, 03:08:00 PM
"No new cards in development for months. Let me check it again..."

"Hmmmm, new cards. Salvaging? In Aether? Lol, crazy. Let me check the forum."

"Ahhhhhh, of course. Zanz is nerfing a vital card for the most used / efficient FG killer deck. Exactly like he just did in the last 10 patches. Why am I not surprised?"

Seriously? We will never be allowed to have and KEEP a good FG killer, will we? If its good vs FGs, it can be good in PvP. People start to cry about, instead of counter it. As a PvE player, I hate all this "f*ck the strong deck" thing. But Im ok with it, I care much less about this game than once cared. Specially after the shard invasion, worst idea ever (I miss those times with just SoG and SoD).

My 2 cents:

Shards changing to elements: most shards shouldnt have been created in my opinion. Im ok with that. But now I think they could become normal cards, not "rare". I also think we could change cards names and art to something element related, and forget once and for all shards have existed. Of course, Earth would need something new.

SoR: I suggest the change can be time creatures can use skill once for each SoR added. No limit of 2 each turn, but +1 for each SoR. Still able to create an OTKO, but much more difficult.

SoFo: Its cost will be down to 4 :gravity? I dislike it. Its still a breaking card, 3 PC for free, almost impossible to kill after the first use (in fact, most CC will just add one more charge to the PC effect), and a Black Hole, which negates quanta and heal you. How about keep it at 6 :gravity? Or add cost to the skill?

Dry Spell: really, it has some uses with Death. Cells + Dry Spell + Graveyard = Skeletons that can gain bonus from SoP, + water quanta to ice bolt? Or u can use another Dry Spell in your skeletons, and buff 2-3 Condors enough to a OT kill (if 2, you can use the ice bolts). Looks interesting. And for a sinergy that already has Chrysaora. I like it.

Graviton Salvager: like said, looks nothing Gravity needs. Maybe something to add to some anti-specific FG decks. Like suggested, I would prefer this skill added to Graviton Mercenary. Even better if it has a higher cost, wouldnt like this card being usabe by aether anyway.

Phase Salvager: 2nd worst idea ever. Enemy plays Phase Shield. You destroy it, to have it salvaged and with the counter reset? No, please. Also, 2 permanents are destroyed, which one is salvaged? Random?

Option to salvaging: By the way, if I was going to add permanent protection, would be like a great card idea I saw in the forge months (maybe years ago), and cant remember the name: you use its skill, it protects a permanent. You can use the skill again to protect another one, but just 1 can be protected at the same time. Perfect.

Art: I like the new vampire and chrysaora. Not sure about the shrieker. Are those rings around its head a sonic superpower or what? Is it screaming? Maybe if the sky was something less "friendly" I would like it more. I also dislike a lot the Phase Salvager new art. I prefer the temporary artwork. Now, can someone make a new art for that pathetic Bone Dragon, which is a plastic toy with blue thorns?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 28, 2012, 03:25:37 PM
May I ask why shards are hated as they are? They are powerful, they make games easier to win, and you can use them. What's the problem?
Don't tell me we need cards that don't touch the effectiveness of elements. Instead, let's buff the "weak" ones so that everything stands a chance against anything. Otherwise, there will be neglect. If everything's broken, nothing is broken. Card games are luck. Not much can be done about that.
But what do I know. I don't play PvP, for reasons that would make anyone annoyed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 28, 2012, 03:34:09 PM
If everything's broken, nothing is broken.

"If a player draws this card, he wins the game. It's okay, both players can draw it, so it's fair."
What a fun card game to play.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 28, 2012, 03:49:12 PM
If everything's broken, nothing is broken.

"If a player draws this card, he wins the game. It's okay, both players can draw it, so it's fair."
What a fun card game to play.

Luck is not always fair. Sometimes, loss is inevitable.
Not my fault if the generator screwed someone over. I have been a victim of that.
When's the last time you saw someone use Antlion instead of Graboid?
The main problem in this game is overshadowing. Because why use one card if there's a cheap, fast and reliable alternative to it?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 28, 2012, 03:52:38 PM
Luck is not always fair. Sometimes, loss is inevitable.
Not my fault if the generator screwed someone over. I have been a victim of that.
When's the last time you saw someone use Antlion instead of Graboid?
The main problem in this game is overshadowing. Because why use one card if there's a cheap, fast and reliable alternative to it?
I do. Not having to use a time mark sometimes may be helpful. Also, easy to fractal. It has its niches.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 28, 2012, 04:01:51 PM
Luck is not always fair. Sometimes, loss is inevitable.
Not my fault if the generator screwed someone over. I have been a victim of that.
When's the last time you saw someone use Antlion instead of Graboid?
The main problem in this game is overshadowing. Because why use one card if there's a cheap, fast and reliable alternative to it?
I do. Not having to use a time mark sometimes may be helpful. Also, easy to fractal. It has its niches.

Great! It can be of use after all. Players can find their own strategies and combos.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Amilir on December 28, 2012, 04:11:37 PM
If everything's broken, nothing is broken.
That's one balancing philosophy. Elements, however, does not use it, and should not use it. It's high time shards were moved into specific elements. That IS the name of the game, not 'Shards' or 'Other'.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on December 28, 2012, 04:29:08 PM
May I ask why shards are hated as they are? They are powerful, they make games easier to win, and you can use them. What's the problem?
Don't tell me we need cards that don't touch the effectiveness of elements. Instead, let's buff the "weak" ones so that everything stands a chance against anything. Otherwise, there will be neglect. If everything's broken, nothing is broken. Card games are luck. Not much can be done about that.
But what do I know. I don't play PvP, for reasons that would make anyone annoyed.

Because this game is balanced around pvp. Not pve. Pve is against the AI, and although it makes it easier, and is fun to have overpowered cards against them, when you can bring that same card into pvp where things are suppose to be balanced, then people (understandably) dont like it.

Also, The problem is, not everything is broken. The everything's broken, nothing is broken only works if everything is equally broken, but everything is not equally broken. If you set one thing, such as shards, as the new "normal tier" then everything else becomes garbage tier, and therefor just hinders you if they are used. EVERYTHING would have to be broken for what you are saying to even be sort of feasible. As it stands, Elements is surprisingly balanced (not perfect, but done pretty well) and a few major outliers being out there are bad for the community as a whole.

Perhaps instead you mean though, that both people can use it. If card x is broken, its not broken because both players can use card x. The problem with this is that it then limits your deck choices. It essentially forces you to play that card if you want to be on equal grounds. This shouldnt be done because it completely destroys variety.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 28, 2012, 04:32:07 PM
If everything's broken, nothing is broken.
That's one balancing philosophy. Elements, however, does not use it, and should not use it. It's high time shards were moved into specific elements. That IS the name of the game, not 'Shards' or 'Other'.

And indeed they have. Still, now we get complaints they don't work as well as before in duos/rainbows/whatever. Ya can't please everybody. I however am glad they are now specific.

@BluePriest I agree. No variety is a bad thing.

I think I've got another insight. Perhaps the troubles people have with their deck is their playstyle. Sometimes, there are mismatches, so they can't perform as well as they're designed.
My choice of play is jack of all trades. If one strategy is stopped, I use another. If I used a pure rush deck, Dimensional Shield would kick my ass. With "joat", I can adapt.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ChickenMayBite on December 29, 2012, 03:10:06 PM
After a while, I've come to love the new art :D However, I'm scared that SoP will become  overused now.
Btw I now have to sell my Instosis and Instaghost  :P I'll keep the most important/often used cards :P
Love ya' Zanz :-*
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 29, 2012, 03:29:58 PM
SoR nerf makes me  :(
Goodbye, Scarab army.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on December 29, 2012, 04:24:00 PM
After a while, I've come to love the new art :D However, I'm scared that SoP will become  overused now.
Btw I now have to sell my Instosis and Instaghost  :P I'll keep the most important/often used cards :P
Love ya' Zanz :-*

I highly recommend not selling off your upgraded cards unless you really need the :electrum RIGHT NOW.  Also, hold off even more strictly with selling off / parting-out decks as you can always sell later in a pinch easier than you can re-upgrade and re-build a deck on the spot.

In this specific instance, the suggested changes are not yet final so Instaghost and Instosis may somehow remain viable upon official release of 1.32.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Phaser on December 29, 2012, 05:15:38 PM
Seems like Instosis might end up as a AI4 grinder with the nerf.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 29, 2012, 06:02:47 PM
Seems like Instosis might end up as a AI4 grinder with the nerf.

I've found quite a few of either old outdated FG killers (like scaredgirl's rainbow) or decks that people claims are FG killers but aren't as good as the creator thinks it is are excellent for ai4.  The good news is most of the cards in instosis still have use in other decks.  The shards of readiness will still be useful in the time/life ghostosis deck as well; it won't be as strong as before, but it will still be playable, while instosis will lose its OTK abilities.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Luminous on December 29, 2012, 07:26:01 PM
Seems like Instosis might end up as a AI4 grinder with the nerf.

I've found quite a few of either old outdated FG killers (like scaredgirl's rainbow) or decks that people claims are FG killers but aren't as good as the creator thinks it is are excellent for ai4.  The good news is most of the cards in instosis still have use in other decks.  The shards of readiness will still be useful in the time/life ghostosis deck as well; it won't be as strong as before, but it will still be playable, while instosis will lose its OTK abilities.

Totally right here.

Also, I think that shake of SoR Mito combo did it job pretty well, people just gotta learn to be more creative
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Legit on December 29, 2012, 09:47:58 PM
Awesome, great to have you back Zanz.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on December 30, 2012, 12:42:24 PM
maybe something else worth discussing, should focus be able to target pilars? it already turns into a black hole so with the ability to destroy pilars it becomes a very anoying way of quanta denial, if sofo wouldn't be able to destroy pilars it would be less OP i think, but it will probably be normalized with the update so this probably doesn't mater a whole lot
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 30, 2012, 01:38:50 PM
maybe something else worth discussing, should focus be able to target pilars? it already turns into a black hole so with the ability to destroy pilars it becomes a very anoying way of quanta denial, if sofo wouldn't be able to destroy pilars it would be less OP i think, but it will probably be normalized with the update so this probably doesn't mater a whole lot

I wouldn't use Focus to destroy pillars. Personally, I feel it's too slow to deny 1 quanta a turn, though it's spammable with Gravity Pull.
I've just noticed that Focus won't turn into a Black Hole if it's buffed with Shard of Patience.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on December 30, 2012, 03:12:05 PM
maybe something else worth discussing, should focus be able to target pilars? it already turns into a black hole so with the ability to destroy pilars it becomes a very anoying way of quanta denial, if sofo wouldn't be able to destroy pilars it would be less OP i think, but it will probably be normalized with the update so this probably doesn't mater a whole lot

I wouldn't use Focus to destroy pillars. Personally, I feel it's too slow to deny 1 quanta a turn, though it's spammable with Gravity Pull.
I've just noticed that Focus won't turn into a Black Hole if it's buffed with Shard of Patience.
Turn 1 sofo pillar destroyer are brutal.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 30, 2012, 03:32:37 PM
maybe something else worth discussing, should focus be able to target pilars? it already turns into a black hole so with the ability to destroy pilars it becomes a very anoying way of quanta denial, if sofo wouldn't be able to destroy pilars it would be less OP i think, but it will probably be normalized with the update so this probably doesn't mater a whole lot

I wouldn't use Focus to destroy pillars. Personally, I feel it's too slow to deny 1 quanta a turn, though it's spammable with Gravity Pull.
I've just noticed that Focus won't turn into a Black Hole if it's buffed with Shard of Patience.

1 Pillar destroy = 1 Pest destroying quanta
1 QP destroy = 3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 30, 2012, 03:37:04 PM
I've just noticed that Focus won't turn into a Black Hole if it's buffed with Shard of Patience.

SoFo will only turn into a Black Hole during/after "accretion" is used.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 31, 2012, 11:18:36 AM
Alright, so from what I tested with Shard of Readiness using Anubis:
I play Anubis, then SoR. I can quint two creatures. Using another SoR same turn does nothing.
I play Anubis and wait a turn. Next turn I quint a creature, then use SoR to quint two more.
I play Anubis and SoR, then quint two creatures. Next turn, I use another SoR and quint two more.
Are all of these correct? If so, then the maximum uses are 3 in one turn after the one turn sickness has passed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Dopha on December 31, 2012, 12:36:09 PM
i dont like the shard updates :(
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: neuroleptics on December 31, 2012, 01:15:06 PM
ah, still  :death :gravity having the most overpowered shards 1 quanta and 4. Nice art. Lotsa decks need modifications and that's a lot of work 2 do
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 31, 2012, 01:24:43 PM
In 1.32, SoW will be the most overpowered of them all. Unless Zanz makes changes to it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on December 31, 2012, 01:34:57 PM
Alright, so from what I tested with Shard of Readiness using Anubis:
I play Anubis, then SoR. I can quint two creatures. Using another SoR same turn does nothing.
I play Anubis and wait a turn. Next turn I quint a creature, then use SoR to quint two more.
I play Anubis and SoR, then quint two creatures. Next turn, I use another SoR and quint two more.
Are all of these correct? If so, then the maximum uses are 3 in one turn after the one turn sickness has passed.

That is correct. The maximum is 3.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on December 31, 2012, 01:53:19 PM
In 1.32, SoW will be the most overpowered of them all. Unless Zanz makes changes to it.
I disagree. Compare Blessing.

I still think SoFo and SoSa are too big compared to other "smaller" shards. The other shards are more or less balanced. (except the new SoP)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on December 31, 2012, 03:10:41 PM
I think SoW should always give spell damage, while Immortal creatures get the +4|+0
We need ways to effectively use spell damage, it's a shame that only Psion can use it.

Or maybe SoW could give +2|+0 and spell damage to target creature, additional +2|+0 if immortal.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 31, 2012, 06:09:03 PM
Can I just say that the quanta cap greatly annoys me? It hinders the strategies of Drain Life, Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt and Fahrenheit. The trainer quanta option of 80-100 is useless.
I would like it to be removed, in the trainer at the very least (I like tampering with game mechanics ok?). Speaking of the trainer, I possess an earlier version of it. The newer shards are missing in it, though. I hope that's not illegal, since it doesn't hurt any real player.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on December 31, 2012, 06:20:51 PM
Can I just say that the quanta cap greatly annoys me? It hinders the strategies of Drain Life, Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt and Fahrenheit. The trainer quanta option of 80-100 is useless.
I would like it to be removed, in the trainer at the very least (I like tampering with game mechanics ok?). Speaking of the trainer, I possess an earlier version of it. The newer shards are missing in it, though. I hope that's not illegal, since it doesn't hurt any real player.
Actually quanta cap is there for nerf them, especially firestall with bolt and Fahrenheit.
I partially agree with you. Fire Bolt and Farenheit are strong enough to be nerfed, but Ice Bolt and Drain Life are not.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Higurashi on December 31, 2012, 07:56:53 PM
I think SoW should always give spell damage, while Immortal creatures get the +4|+0
We need ways to effectively use spell damage, it's a shame that only Psion can use it.

Or maybe SoW could give +2|+0 and spell damage to target creature, additional +2|+0 if immortal.
I can see why this kind of spell damage should stay within the realms of Aether, for thematics' sake. Considering gameplay though.. I can only agree with you. Giving any creature +4 really gives you more incentive to use it on a lot of other stuff that isn't in Aether. Cheaper, faster stuff :/
At the same time, Phase Recluse rush with TU's gets quite a bit more vicious. I think I'll wait until I've played with the new SoW more before my final verdict.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on December 31, 2012, 08:11:55 PM
Shard of Wisdom can simply give a normal creature +3/0. That way it's not stronger than Blessing and Aether keeps its advantage of +4/0 spell damage for immortals.

Edit: Hehe, I'm liking Shard of Patience more and more. It helps Deja Vu more than before and gives Vanadium Wardens something to do. Silence works great with it (but that pesky Sanctuary makes me paranoid).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on January 01, 2013, 04:59:07 AM
Happy 2013 to Zanzarino and all EtG Community!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 01, 2013, 08:16:14 AM
Here's to '13 and another patch!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 01, 2013, 08:17:39 AM
Wuts the ETA for 1.32 in the game?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 01, 2013, 08:22:03 AM
Well, Zanz is back on the 2nd, so not before then.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 01, 2013, 09:41:44 AM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 01, 2013, 10:20:35 AM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Luminous on January 01, 2013, 01:06:00 PM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.

SoWs can now be used for non-immortals
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 01, 2013, 02:28:44 PM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.

Fire Shield and Carapace Buckler, and skull shield disagree with you.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on January 01, 2013, 02:41:34 PM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.

Fire Shield and Carapace Buckler, and skull shield disagree with you.

SoW immortals
Title: Re: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on January 01, 2013, 05:39:16 PM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.

Basically what Vangelios said, why saying SoW immortals will be OP if not much changes with 1.32.
SoW on mortals will be balanced with blessing since blessing provides CC protection.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 01, 2013, 05:50:06 PM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.

Basically what Vangelios said, why saying SoW immortals will be OP if not much changes with 1.32.
SoW on mortals will be balanced with blessing since blessing provides CC protection.

Yes, but wisened immortals need only fear reflective shields.
Edit: and Sundial.
Title: Re: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on January 01, 2013, 06:03:11 PM
The 3 HP gave by blessing are important, because they often mean Shockwave survivability and +10 :fire quanta for firebolt.
SoW immortals don't care about HP.

Basically what Vangelios said, why saying SoW immortals will be OP if not much changes with 1.32.
SoW on mortals will be balanced with blessing since blessing provides CC protection.

Yes, but wisened immortals need only fear reflective shields.
Edit: and Sundial.

And isn't the same like in 1.31?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 01, 2013, 06:07:43 PM
Not gonna try to start a quote pyramid, but yea. I can't find a discussion here.
How is Shard of Void doing? Out of all the shards, that one seems a little niche. I can't think of a use for it outside of specialized decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on January 01, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
Wouldn't be awesome if SoV damages Max HP with a percentage of HP damaged during that turn (in addition of its normal effect)?
Example: this turn i'm dealing 20 damage point. I have 1 SoV, 25% of the total damage is also delivered to MaxHP, so 5 MaxHP less.

Not sure if the damages should be converted into MaxHP damage or duplicated into MaxHP damage.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 01, 2013, 08:27:03 PM
Wouldn't be awesome if SoV damages Max HP with a percentage of HP damaged during that turn (in addition of its normal effect)?
Example: this turn i'm dealing 20 damage point. I have 1 SoV, 25% of the total damage is also delivered to MaxHP, so 5 MaxHP less.

Not sure if the damages should be converted into MaxHP damage or duplicated into MaxHP damage.

I like this idea. I'm thinking of putting a cap to stacks SoV where the percent dissapears once said cap is met, restoring SoV to doing -2/3 max HP. Something like:
1 Sov = -2/3 max hp damage + 25% of turn damage done once.
2 SoV = -2/3 max hp damage +13% of turn damage done twice.

And so on. Diminishing returns for more stacks. I can only imagine.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 01, 2013, 09:36:19 PM
Shard of Focus   489
Shard of Readiness   267
Shard of Gratitude   229
Shard of Divinity   222
Shard of Serendipity   202
Shard of Wisdom   124
Shard of Bravery   89
Shard of Freedom   87
Shard of Sacrifice   73
Shard of Void   69
Shard of Patience   66
Shard of Integrity   40


Shard of Serendipity (U)   2622
Shard of Focus (U)   1298
Shard of Divinity(U)   1162
Shard of Readiness(U)   1090
Shard of Gratitude(U)   1070
Shard of Sacrifice (U)   1050

Shard of Bravery (U)   330
Shard of Wisdom (U)   288
Shard of Freedom (U)   197
Shard of Patience (U)   118
Shard of Void (U)   104
Shard of Integrity (U)   81


Patience, Void and Integrity are clearly the least used.

We also see that SoW isn't used much as of now, in comparison to other shards (expecially Divinity and Gratitude). We can then understand that the +4/+0 +spell bonus to immortals isn't that much of a big deal.

Now. Is a +4/+0 bonus, when a +3/+3 one existed all along, that much of a big deal?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on January 02, 2013, 07:21:55 AM
Not gonna try to start a quote pyramid, but yea. I can't find a discussion here.
How is Shard of Void doing? Out of all the shards, that one seems a little niche. I can't think of a use for it outside of specialized decks.
Actually, I recently saw a rather creative deck using SoV's in PVP2. It was pretty solidly built, too (I lost).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 02, 2013, 10:43:03 AM
Shard of Focus   489
Shard of Readiness   267
Shard of Gratitude   229
Shard of Divinity   222
Shard of Serendipity   202
Shard of Wisdom   124
Shard of Bravery   89
Shard of Freedom   87
Shard of Sacrifice   73
Shard of Void   69
Shard of Patience   66
Shard of Integrity   40


Shard of Serendipity (U)   2622
Shard of Focus (U)   1298
Shard of Divinity(U)   1162
Shard of Readiness(U)   1090
Shard of Gratitude(U)   1070
Shard of Sacrifice (U)   1050

Shard of Bravery (U)   330
Shard of Wisdom (U)   288
Shard of Freedom (U)   197
Shard of Patience (U)   118
Shard of Void (U)   104
Shard of Integrity (U)   81


Patience, Void and Integrity are clearly the least used.

We also see that SoW isn't used much as of now, in comparison to other shards (expecially Divinity and Gratitude). We can then understand that the +4/+0 +spell bonus to immortals isn't that much of a big deal.

Now. Is a +4/+0 bonus, when a +3/+3 one existed all along, that much of a big deal?

Integrity is less used very likely due to the fact that many people are missing all the shards to make good use of it. It requires ~20 shards to be competitive, which is kind of a lot of rares for less experienced players...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cheesy111 on January 02, 2013, 04:18:18 PM
Shard of Focus   489
Shard of Readiness   267
Shard of Gratitude   229
Shard of Divinity   222
Shard of Serendipity   202
Shard of Wisdom   124
Shard of Bravery   89
Shard of Freedom   87
Shard of Sacrifice   73
Shard of Void   69
Shard of Patience   66
Shard of Integrity   40


Shard of Serendipity (U)   2622
Shard of Focus (U)   1298
Shard of Divinity(U)   1162
Shard of Readiness(U)   1090
Shard of Gratitude(U)   1070
Shard of Sacrifice (U)   1050

Shard of Bravery (U)   330
Shard of Wisdom (U)   288
Shard of Freedom (U)   197
Shard of Patience (U)   118
Shard of Void (U)   104
Shard of Integrity (U)   81


Patience, Void and Integrity are clearly the least used.

We also see that SoW isn't used much as of now, in comparison to other shards (expecially Divinity and Gratitude). We can then understand that the +4/+0 +spell bonus to immortals isn't that much of a big deal.

Now. Is a +4/+0 bonus, when a +3/+3 one existed all along, that much of a big deal?

Please do not make the arument that because a card is not as commonly used that a card is UP.  Usage is related to power but higher usage does not necessarily mean higher power.  If (rainbow) SoFo was suddenly not used at all it would still retain its power.  SoSe's higher usage than SoFo does not make it more powerful.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 02, 2013, 04:35:56 PM
Usage is related to power but higher usage does not necessarily mean higher power.  If (rainbow) SoFo was suddenly not used at all it would still retain its power.  SoSe's higher usage than SoFo does not make it more powerful.

Although this is true, it is a good indicator. If 1 card is used a lot more than another, we must ask ourselves why. Is it because card A is too powerful? OR could it be that card B is not powerful enough. The other interesting thing we have to deal with is the concept that shards are rare. All that really needs to happen for 1 rare card to be used more than another is for it to have a spike for a couple days of usage in arena/pvp. Then, after that, the player base will be more saturated with that card than other rare cards. This could also be the reason.

How I prefer to use this data is like so....

If a card is underused, I tend to think it is underpowered. Its generally the only real reason. The only other reason is that it doesnt have any combos that synergize with it, or has few combos that do. Then more cards would be the answer. Generally, this isnt the case though.
If a card is overused, I first check to see if it fulfills a specific niche. Supernova is a good example of a niche card. Not many other cards can do what it does. If the card is a niche card, then perhaps its time to give players some variety. That doesnt mean nerfing the card, it just means giving more alternatives through card creation.
If the card is not a niche card, and is something like a dragon, I take a look at the element. Is there a reason that this element is using its dragon more than others? For example, if Ruby dragon was used more, I would look at cremation and understand. If the time dragon was used more, Id look at instosis and understand.
I would decide it would need nerfing if (keeping on the subject of dragons) the water dragon was used the most. Water doesnt have any deck/combo/quanta generation that makes its dragon particularly stand out. If this card was overused, it would simply be because of it having blatantly overpowered stats, so it would be worth the investment to stick in a good percentage of decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 02, 2013, 04:44:15 PM
I personally think SoSe is very used mostly because it's fun.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 02, 2013, 05:27:26 PM
I personally think SoSe is very used mostly because it's fun.

thats the only reason i use sose
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 03, 2013, 12:18:56 AM
The salvagers are now in the trainer.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 03, 2013, 12:23:12 AM
The salvagers are now in the trainer.
A good way to start the year.

Quicklink for everyone:
http://elementsthegame.com/trainer
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 03, 2013, 12:36:06 AM
Is Phase Salvager supposed to be this way?
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2h4z05i.jpg)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 03, 2013, 12:38:05 AM
Is Phase Salvager supposed to be this way?
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2h4z05i.jpg)

Looks like a good way to make sure you don't abuse mass Dims.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 03, 2013, 01:27:37 AM
Graviton Merc had it's cost lowered by one on both versions. Micro Abom is crying itself to sleep tonight.

Fractal Guards seems to be a consistent 7-turn win. Not game-breaking, but inexplicably amusing :3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UTAlan on January 03, 2013, 01:51:17 AM
Gravity has a buff it could use on its Salvager, but doesn't need it. Aether doesn't have a buff, but its Salvager does need it. Not a big fan of the Aether Salvager at the moment, as it is near-useless without requiring a combo.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deuce22 on January 03, 2013, 02:07:32 AM
Gravity has a buff it could use on its Salvager, but doesn't need it. Aether doesn't have a buff, but its Salvager does need it. Not a big fan of the Aether Salvager at the moment, as it is near-useless without requiring a combo.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Skotadi Phobos on January 03, 2013, 02:09:11 AM
I'm a fan of the aether salvager right now, I think requiring a duo with an odd element is cool and requires a level of creativity.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 03, 2013, 04:30:18 AM
The salvagers are now in the trainer.

I still don't think Salvagers are completely what the game needs atm, but I do like the trainer versions much more than before. :D
Thankyou Zanz, for new cards!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Anarook on January 03, 2013, 05:16:13 AM
Thunder/Lightning Storm is now OP cost-wise...
RoF/Firestorm 3 damage for 7 | 5 = 1 damage per 2.3 | 1.67 quanta
Thunder/Lightning Storm 2 damage for 2 | 1 = 1 damage per 1 | .5 quanta

That's a freaking huge gap... Essentially +1 damage to all is now equated to +5, +4 cost...

Mind you TS / LS was always more efficient...
old one: 1 damage per 2 | 1 quanta(still more efficient)

You want to buff TS/LS, buff other forms of mass CC too...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: mesaprotector on January 03, 2013, 05:20:33 AM
Thunder/Lightning Storm is now OP cost-wise...
RoF/Firestorm 3 damage for 7 | 5 = 1 damage per 2.3 | 1.67 quanta
Thunder/Lightning Storm 2 damage for 2 | 1 = 1 damage per 1 | .5 quanta

That's a freaking huge gap... Essentially +1 damage to all is now equated to +5, +4 cost...

Mind you TS / LS was always more efficient...
old one: 1 damage per 2 | 1 quanta(still more efficient)

You want to buff TS/LS, buff other forms of mass CC too...

It costs 3|2 atm.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Anarook on January 03, 2013, 05:22:53 AM
Oh really? I looked in the card changes section and it was 2/1.
If it's 3/2 in the trainer that changes things.

On the other hand it's still
TS/LS 2 damage for 3/2 = 1 damage for 1.5/1

and +1 damage to all is +4/+3(this is the biggest concern)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on January 03, 2013, 06:00:09 AM
Oh really? I looked in the card changes section and it was 2/1.
If it's 3/2 in the trainer that changes things.

On the other hand it's still
TS/LS 2 damage for 3/2 = 1 damage for 1.5/1

and +1 damage to all is +4/+3(this is the biggest concern)

difference between 2DMG and 3DMG is huuuge.
I think that is enough.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 03, 2013, 07:34:22 AM
The salvagers are now in the trainer.

time to test them
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 03, 2013, 07:47:19 AM
Lawl, I feel salvagers got super-nerfed.
Well, this is what everyone wanted...right?
Right guys?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 03, 2013, 08:08:25 AM
Lawl, I feel salvagers got super-nerfed.
Well, this is what everyone wanted...right?
Right guys?

i like the idea of randomly returning a perm
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 03, 2013, 08:09:49 AM
Hey, an hourglass or mindgate brought back sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 03, 2013, 09:06:25 AM
And the Blue Crawler gets laughed in the face once again.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on January 03, 2013, 09:44:53 AM
Lawl, I feel salvagers got super-nerfed.
Well, this is what everyone wanted...right?
Right guys?

Well, we never really knew the mechanics of the former salvagers. Depending on what they were, you can argue both buff/nerfs.

Graviton Salvager has seemingly been buffed, now having attack and its ability not being able to be lobotomized.
Phase Salvager, basically has been nerfed. By requiring the hp buff, it's forced into decks with upped entropy, (un/upped) earth, gravity and light (and soon to be SoP). It's not useless but its now basically an upped possibility to a CP TU deck.

And I don't think people wanted these nerfed, at least I didn't. I didn't want them in the game to begin with currently if we're only getting a few new cards this patch. Because if I could get only one of the following:
1) existing card balance
2) the salvagers
3) different, PC related cards,

the salvagers have a 0% vote from me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on January 03, 2013, 11:53:26 AM
Aether salvagers still makes a really good game with sop.
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6rv 6rv 6rv 6rv 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 809 809 809 80d 80d 80d 80d 80d 80i 80i 80i 80i 80m 80m 80m 8pp

The ??? cards is salvagers.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 03, 2013, 12:07:59 PM
Ya know what would be nice? If Shard of Integrity let you pick the shards you want to combine. Instead you might get a dose of Murphy's Law and get 6 SoI's for a undesirable golem in your starting hand.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 12:15:10 PM
in 1.32, Id like to see a couple of basic Other Cards. A simple creature, possibly a 2|3, or 3|3 would be good. just a plain vanilla creature, with a slightly higher cost than normal. And a permanent. Just a basic permanent that did something useful, but not terribly powerful. With the shards going to their elements, a couple of Other Cards are in order.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 03, 2013, 12:21:20 PM
in 1.32, Id like to see a couple of basic Other Cards. A simple creature, possibly a 2|3, or 3|3 would be good. just a plain vanilla creature, with a slightly higher cost than normal. And a permanent. Just a basic permanent that did something useful, but not terribly powerful. With the shards going to their elements, a couple of Other Cards are in order.

imo other elements only good card is QT, and in some ocasions a weapon
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 12:22:05 PM
in 1.32, Id like to see a couple of basic Other Cards. A simple creature, possibly a 2|3, or 3|3 would be good. just a plain vanilla creature, with a slightly higher cost than normal. And a permanent. Just a basic permanent that did something useful, but not terribly powerful. With the shards going to their elements, a couple of Other Cards are in order.

imo other elements only good card is QT, and in some ocasions a weapon

thats my point.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 03, 2013, 12:23:04 PM
in 1.32, Id like to see a couple of basic Other Cards. A simple creature, possibly a 2|3, or 3|3 would be good. just a plain vanilla creature, with a slightly higher cost than normal. And a permanent. Just a basic permanent that did something useful, but not terribly powerful. With the shards going to their elements, a couple of Other Cards are in order.

TBH, I don't think Other cards can have anything with a cost higher than 3, let alone a card that can be Fractal'd, unless we drastically change the game for example make each Other cards drain quanta from only 1 element.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on January 03, 2013, 12:30:33 PM
in 1.32, Id like to see a couple of basic Other Cards. A simple creature, possibly a 2|3, or 3|3 would be good. just a plain vanilla creature, with a slightly higher cost than normal. And a permanent. Just a basic permanent that did something useful, but not terribly powerful. With the shards going to their elements, a couple of Other Cards are in order.
it's a interesting idea but it's very hard to balance with cards like fractal and novas or in deck with cremations.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 03, 2013, 12:34:37 PM
in 1.32, Id like to see a couple of basic Other Cards. A simple creature, possibly a 2|3, or 3|3 would be good. just a plain vanilla creature, with a slightly higher cost than normal. And a permanent. Just a basic permanent that did something useful, but not terribly powerful. With the shards going to their elements, a couple of Other Cards are in order.
it's a interesting idea but it's very hard to balance with cards like fractal and novas or in deck with cremations.

Can't be fractaled, or drains quanta if copied. Two possible ways to keep it in check.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 12:39:24 PM
photon spark and upped gnome and damsel are free for cremations.

Life has cheap creatures, make the Other cards cost 1-2 quanta more and its fine. Almost every element has a mid range vanilla. Other should get one too. Even if its more than buying a creature from within the element.

some simple permanent, that is not terribly powerful, would be good. protect a creature or artifact until end of turn.. remove a poison counter, some such.. spend 2 quanta to heal 1 damage (repeatable) some simple thing.

Other should have a few very basic cards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 03, 2013, 12:51:14 PM
photon spark and upped gnome and damsel are free for cremations.

Life has cheap creatures, make the Other cards cost 1-2 quanta more and its fine. Almost every element has a mid range vanilla. Other should get one too. Even if its more than buying a creature from within the element.

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood Blacksmith. Let's say you make an Other creature that costs 5 quanta for 3|3. Two copies of these can be powered by a single nova, and 3 copies can be powered by a single immophoton. No deck would ever use this creature unless it is a rainbow deck.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 03, 2013, 12:59:00 PM
photon spark and upped gnome and damsel are free for cremations.

Life has cheap creatures, make the Other cards cost 1-2 quanta more and its fine. Almost every element has a mid range vanilla. Other should get one too. Even if its more than buying a creature from within the element.

No deck would ever use this creature unless it is a rainbow deck.

Maybe that's why it would be Other?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 01:04:41 PM
well, sure. Lets go with the hypothetical "Quantum Beast" for 5  :rainbow that is a 3|3

pretty much every element beats it in quanta to cost ratio, thus monos are in no danger of being outclassed. However, every element can use it, filling in as desired. In a fire deck, it provides a decent mid range hitter, and cleans up Immo scraps.. In life, it synergizes with Adrenaline. In Darkness, its decent to liquid shadow off a Nymph. It isnt weak to Maxwell, doesnt get blocked by the Gravity shield, survives Fire Buck etc. Its not great, and in most cases, i overshadowed by the Elemental creatures. Thus, it is exactly what it needs to be. An option, that provides simple stability without overpowering anything, but still offering some usefulness across the board. Like Long Sword. It has its specialized uses, but elemental weapons are generally 'better'.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 03, 2013, 01:35:03 PM
well, sure. Lets go with the hypothetical "Quantum Beast" for 5  :rainbow that is a 3|3

pretty much every element beats it in quanta to cost ratio, thus monos are in no danger of being outclassed. However, every element can use it, filling in as desired. In a fire deck, it provides a decent mid range hitter, and cleans up Immo scraps.. In life, it synergizes with Adrenaline. In Darkness, its decent to liquid shadow off a Nymph. It isnt weak to Maxwell, doesnt get blocked by the Gravity shield, survives Fire Buck etc. Its not great, and in most cases, i overshadowed by the Elemental creatures. Thus, it is exactly what it needs to be. An option, that provides simple stability without overpowering anything, but still offering some usefulness across the board. Like Long Sword. It has its specialized uses, but elemental weapons are generally 'better'.

Sorry, but a 5 cost 3|3 creature is overshadowed by elemental creatures in almost all cases where you're using a mono. In life, you can use Horned Frog. In Darkness, Minor Vampire. And why do we need Other creatures? Why should we have a 5 cost 3|3 creature when we could have an extra  3 (elemental) cost 3|3 creature in all 12 elements?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 03, 2013, 01:36:29 PM
Nice change on the Phase Salvager. It's at least interesting. Makes for a good Water duo now, possibly too good but I'll leave it to people who can properly test the interactions.

Nice buff on Graviton Mercenary too. Interesting buff on Graviton Guard, not sure it needed it, but it's fun. Consistent 7 ttw huh? Still worse than fractix and even frogtal, but nice. Possibly a contender to Fracharge because of the little need for Gravity quanta.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
well, sure. Lets go with the hypothetical "Quantum Beast" for 5  :rainbow that is a 3|3

pretty much every element beats it in quanta to cost ratio, thus monos are in no danger of being outclassed. However, every element can use it, filling in as desired. In a fire deck, it provides a decent mid range hitter, and cleans up Immo scraps.. In life, it synergizes with Adrenaline. In Darkness, its decent to liquid shadow off a Nymph. It isnt weak to Maxwell, doesnt get blocked by the Gravity shield, survives Fire Buck etc. Its not great, and in most cases, i overshadowed by the Elemental creatures. Thus, it is exactly what it needs to be. An option, that provides simple stability without overpowering anything, but still offering some usefulness across the board. Like Long Sword. It has its specialized uses, but elemental weapons are generally 'better'.

Sorry, but a 5 cost 3|3 creature is overshadowed by elemental creatures in almost all cases where you're using a mono. In life, you can use Horned Frog. In Darkness, Minor Vampire. And why do we need Other creatures? Why should we have a 5 cost 3|3 creature when we could have an extra  3 (elemental) cost 3|3 creature in all 12 elements?

we disagree.

why have all these elemental cards, when a nice other fills in. Im not saying these are the best numbers per se, but in the end, an Other creature is warranted. Some simple permanent as well
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Shantu on January 03, 2013, 02:03:33 PM
why have all these elemental cards, when a nice other fills in. Im not saying these are the best numbers per se, but in the end, an Other creature is warranted. Some simple permanent as well

I thought this was Elements the game. Maybe that's why.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
why have all these elemental cards, when a nice other fills in. Im not saying these are the best numbers per se, but in the end, an Other creature is warranted. Some simple permanent as well

I thought this was Elements the game. Maybe that's why.

you miss the point. witty statement, but out of context.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheAccuso on January 03, 2013, 02:13:38 PM
In a simplistic way one can say that the category others is there to help the elements be completed and to give them something that is 100% shared and equal among them, something over the synergies, something that surely is needed but is not the central point of the concept, therefore the community clearly prefer to see primary things keep going and then the coadjuvant part after.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 02:16:24 PM
In a simplistic way one can say that the category others is there to help the elements be completed and to give them something that is 100% shared and equal among them, something over the synergies, something that surely is needed but is not the central point of the concept, therefore the community clearly prefer to see primary things keep going and then the coadjuvant part after.

ok.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 03, 2013, 02:50:27 PM
why have all these elemental cards, when a nice other fills in.

Because elemental quanta generation is inferior to rainbow quanta generation.
Thus, elemental card costs can be balanced while Other card costs cannot be balanced.

I don't think anyone's against the introduction of new Other cards. However, with Quantum Pillars, Nova, and Immolation being far superior to the 12 pillars and pendula. That's why:

Other cards cannot have anything with a cost higher than 3, let alone a card that can be Fractal'd, unless we drastically change the game for example by making each Other card drain quanta from only 1 element.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 03, 2013, 04:23:41 PM
why can't we all be happy with the cards zanz gives us?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Mathematistic on January 03, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
why can't we all be happy with the cards zanz gives us?

This. New cards + Old mechanic < Old cards + New mechanic. Arena is a good try in making a new mechanic.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 03, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
why have all these elemental cards, when a nice other fills in.

Because elemental quanta generation is inferior to rainbow quanta generation.
Thus, elemental card costs can be balanced while Other card costs cannot be balanced.

I don't think anyone's against the introduction of new Other cards. However, with Quantum Pillars, Nova, and Immolation being far superior to the 12 pillars and pendula. That's why:

Other cards cannot have anything with a cost higher than 3, let alone a card that can be Fractal'd, unless we drastically change the game for example by making each Other card drain quanta from only 1 element.

I disagree with you. so does the game. note Tower Shield.

This is a subjective opinion. I have already acquiesced to THEACCUSSO's statements, why do you persist in argumentative behavior?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on January 03, 2013, 04:32:03 PM
"why can't we all be happy with the cards zanz gives us?"
the same as in life, everything's amazing and nobody's happy.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 03, 2013, 04:35:42 PM
"why can't we all be happy with the cards zanz gives us?"
the same as in life, everything's amazing and nobody's happy.
If you think life is amazing, you must be living on another planet  ::)
And because both salvagers go generally in the direction opposite of what community thought was good. Dessication, Thunderstorm change and shard changes are awesome though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on January 03, 2013, 04:45:46 PM
hope you're joking about life not being amazing. we're talking to eachother across the planet on the internet.  we have phones that encompass all of the technology of the 1980s in the palm of your hand.  you can fly through the air to go across the country in hours rather than days.  we walk to a store and buy our food, rather than hunt or farm our own.  like i said, everything is amazing, nobody is happy.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marsu on January 03, 2013, 04:52:15 PM
^This.

But I disagree with people saying new cards are not needed. 2 patches with 3,4 new cards every year - it really motivates and that kind of quantity isn't too hard to balance.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 03, 2013, 04:56:52 PM
hope you're joking about life not being amazing. we're talking to eachother across the planet on the internet.  we have phones that encompass all of the technology of the 1980s in the palm of your hand.  you can fly through the air to go across the country in hours rather than days.  we walk to a store and buy our food, rather than hunt or farm our own.  like i said, everything is amazing, nobody is happy.
I fail to see how any of those are amazing. And by that i mean life wise, not technology wise.However this argument belongs in the off topic section, i believe.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 03, 2013, 05:05:27 PM
in the end it's zanz who decides which cards are added to the game and which cards are buffed or nerfed, we can't change it, we can only go with the flow
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: moomoose on January 03, 2013, 06:00:58 PM
jenk, you sound like a pretty depressed individual :p.  but it remains on point- people are never satisfied with what they are given.  always want things better, easier, or what have you.  this is true in life, which my previous points were referring to, and in games, such as elements.

looking back on the cards that have been added to the game over the past couple years, zanz appears to add cards he feels are interesting regardless of if the element 'needs' them or not, and balances existing cards as need be.  so unless either i am wrong about, or there is a change in, that card addition philosophy, you can scream for what you think any particular element, or the game in general, 'needs', but if it isn't accompanied by a mechanic he likes, it may not go anywhere.  he could better speak to this than i, obviously, but i don't recall hearing something fleshed out on this subject before.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 03, 2013, 08:49:18 PM
*sniff*
I've been poking around the card ideas and competitions and saw lots of cool stuff. And the sad part? Only a few of them have a chance to be considered.
So many ideas, stay ideas.
We need more developers, curse it.
Edit: The particular thread I'm reading is the Elementshifted competition. The marks - they are awesome.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marvaddin on January 03, 2013, 10:41:26 PM
Yes, I agree, deidmann. So many good ideas, and wont ever be considered. We had already good ideas involving permanent protection, but looks like zanz never give a look when starting these ideas of his own.

Phase Salvager was bad. Now it looks even worse and something that can invade the Spark niche (make it weaker than the Spark, please). C'mon, now if the salvage is automatic, and has no cost involved, you just need a card like Chaos Power or Unstopable, powered by a Nova, and you can keep it alive and salvaging dim shields. No need to use even mark or pillar of another element. And of course at cost of 1 it can be easily played and quinted same turn. I agree we could use another permanent protection, and even a renewable one, but surely not aether, surely not free of activation cost and probably duo cost (I understand this was the goal about making it 4/0, but hey, renewable creature protection is a duo, and a expensive one). And I would do it simple, because simple is better. Why not to protect a card of your choice, instead of this "one card that has been destroyed-not-stolen by the opponent" thing? Its not fun just because its new.

Looks like someone's comment remembered zanz there is a forgotten card called Graviton Mercenary, which he decided to buff while still creating that Graviton Salvager unnecessary card. I would like a explanation about why really create another card, instead of adding the skill to the old one, but I feel Im asking for too much.

Like some other people, I still hate these "Salvagers". If I could test them... but I cant, they arent on my trainer, and I have pressed F5 already, etc. I guess I can only try them when the update is on. Edit: lol, need buy them on the bazaar, clicking all cards dont give em to me :P

This I said about shards, no opinions about it?
I also think we could change cards names and art to something element related, and forget once and for all shards have existed. Of course, Earth would need something new.

Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on January 03, 2013, 10:54:28 PM
Like some other people, I still hate these "Salvagers". If I could test them... but I cant, they arent on my trainer, and I have pressed F5 already, etc. I guess I can only try them when the update is on. Edit: lol, need buy them on the bazaar, clicking all cards dont give em to me :P

Try Ctrl+F5...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on January 03, 2013, 10:55:32 PM
Phase slavagers created a forced combo before now you can combine it with more elements like gravity, entropy or light. I don't think the card is bad but I wonder how much is gonna be played in other decks than mind gate decks or dim shield decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 03, 2013, 11:11:32 PM
Yes, I agree, deidmann. So many good ideas, and wont ever be considered. We had already good ideas involving permanent protection, but looks like zanz never give a look when starting these ideas of his own.

Lol, Salvagers came from a card idea in the Forge. So yes, he is looking, and he's not just looking at the lfew that somehow made it to the Armory.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 03, 2013, 11:15:17 PM
Yes, I agree, deidmann. So many good ideas, and wont ever be considered. We had already good ideas involving permanent protection, but looks like zanz never give a look when starting these ideas of his own.

Lol, Salvagers came from a card idea in the Forge. So yes, he is looking, and he's not just looking at the lfew that somehow made it to the Armory.

For reference:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39851.0.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Dm on January 03, 2013, 11:19:50 PM
Phase slavagers created a forced combo before now you can combine it with more elements like gravity, entropy or light. I don't think the card is bad but I wonder how much is gonna be played in other decks than mind gate decks or dim shield decks.

Considering the hype Dim Shields are for newer players, I reckon for most forum users this will not cause such an impact (except for restricted PVP), but for PVP1... heh.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 04, 2013, 01:47:18 AM
Updated trainer:
- Shard card codes moved to in-element values
- Graviton mercenary cost decreased / graviton guard stats increased
- SoSac cost increased to 2
- Trainer bazaar and "all cards" button updated
- Dessication changed to its original form
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 04, 2013, 01:49:23 AM
Dessication changed to its original form

:D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Captain Scibra on January 04, 2013, 01:50:39 AM
Updated trainer:
- Shard card codes moved to in-element values
- Graviton mercenary cost decreased / graviton guard stats increased
- SoSac cost increased to 2
- Trainer bazaar and "all cards" button updated
- Dessication changed to its original form

OH EM GEE!  :D

EDIT: OP says it costs 2 :gravity, but Trainer has 3 :gravity.  Typo/change?

EDIT2: Nevermind. :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 04, 2013, 03:30:19 AM
Other than the fact that Life has Adrenaline, doesn't the new Graviton Mercenary kind of put the Horned Frog to shame? Should a card be allowed total superiority over another card based solely on Element?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on January 04, 2013, 03:36:20 AM
Other than the fact that Life has Adrenaline, doesn't the new Graviton Mercenary kind of put the Horned Frog to shame? Should a card be allowed total superiority over another card based solely on Element?
It costs 3 :gravity versus 2 :life

I wouldn't say it's totally superior.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 04, 2013, 03:53:26 AM

- Trainer bazaar and "all cards" button updated


Favorite part about this update, surprisingly.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 06:45:26 AM

- Trainer bazaar and "all cards" button updated


Favorite part about this update, surprisingly.

Mine too!
So, I was right about Dessication's reverse Pandemonium thingy.
Edit: I see the double Seraph glitch was fixed as well.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 04, 2013, 07:37:36 AM
Yes, I agree, deidmann. So many good ideas, and wont ever be considered. We had already good ideas involving permanent protection, but looks like zanz never give a look when starting these ideas of his own.

Phase Salvager was bad. Now it looks even worse and something that can invade the Spark niche (make it weaker than the Spark, please). C'mon, now if the salvage is automatic, and has no cost involved, you just need a card like Chaos Power or Unstopable, powered by a Nova, and you can keep it alive and salvaging dim shields. No need to use even mark or pillar of another element. And of course at cost of 1 it can be easily played and quinted same turn. I agree we could use another permanent protection, and even a renewable one, but surely not aether, surely not free of activation cost and probably duo cost (I understand this was the goal about making it 4/0, but hey, renewable creature protection is a duo, and a expensive one). And I would do it simple, because simple is better. Why not to protect a card of your choice, instead of this "one card that has been destroyed-not-stolen by the opponent" thing? Its not fun just because its new.

Looks like someone's comment remembered zanz there is a forgotten card called Graviton Mercenary, which he decided to buff while still creating that Graviton Salvager unnecessary card. I would like a explanation about why really create another card, instead of adding the skill to the old one, but I feel Im asking for too much.

Like some other people, I still hate these "Salvagers". If I could test them... but I cant, they arent on my trainer, and I have pressed F5 already, etc. I guess I can only try them when the update is on. Edit: lol, need buy them on the bazaar, clicking all cards dont give em to me :P

This I said about shards, no opinions about it?
I also think we could change cards names and art to something element related, and forget once and for all shards have existed. Of course, Earth would need something new.

zanz owns the game, he makes the rules, simlpe as that, we should be happy he allows us to post our ideas here and be happy he takes a look at them
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 04, 2013, 09:12:53 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 04, 2013, 09:28:05 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.
Well, you can't buff everything, or it'll be like nothing was buffed. :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 09:30:58 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.

I always assumed unupped cards were ment to suck so you would hurry up and -1500 yourself.
BTW, does Bone Wall work with the Salvagers? Does it count as being destroyed?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheAccuso on January 04, 2013, 09:36:53 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.

I always assumed unupped cards were ment to suck so you would hurry up and -1500 yourself.
Compare it with the other hitters..
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on January 04, 2013, 09:51:02 AM
- SoSac cost increased to 2

I don't think this is the right way to nerf SoSac, it's mechanic is simply too strong compared to other shards right now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 04, 2013, 09:53:34 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.

I always assumed unupped cards were ment to suck so you would hurry up and -1500 yourself.
BTW, does Bone Wall work with the Salvagers? Does it count as being destroyed?
IIRC, someone in chat said deflagging one gives out an entire stack-
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 09:59:01 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.

I always assumed unupped cards were ment to suck so you would hurry up and -1500 yourself.
BTW, does Bone Wall work with the Salvagers? Does it count as being destroyed?
IIRC, someone in chat said deflagging one gives out an entire stack-

I know that, cause it returns to your hand, good as new. Same thing with Dimensional Shield.
I'm asking about attacking till all stacks dissappear.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 04, 2013, 10:02:46 AM
Blue Crawler weeps.

I always assumed unupped cards were ment to suck so you would hurry up and -1500 yourself.
BTW, does Bone Wall work with the Salvagers? Does it count as being destroyed?
IIRC, someone in chat said deflagging one gives out an entire stack-

I know that, cause it returns to your hand, good as new. Same thing with Dimensional Shield.
I'm asking about attacking till all stacks dissappear.

Well, does Dimensional Shield return to your hand when its duration ends?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 10:07:21 AM
/pyramid
No, because it dissappears on its own. With Bone wall, the opponent's attacks do the deed.
Wait. It doesn't count if it's not a spell, is it?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Pineapple on January 04, 2013, 10:23:13 AM
/pyramid
No, because it dissappears on its own. With Bone wall, the opponent's attacks do the deed.
Wait. It doesn't count if it's not a spell, is it?

Hm... Generally, yes.
My interpretation is that durations and destruction-triggers are part of the card's effect. Thus, it isn't destroyed by the opponent, but by you/your card's effect.
Then again, that's completely off from Cloak.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on January 04, 2013, 10:55:57 AM
Attacks don't create a new bonewall, but deflagging a bonewall will add a new one to the hand.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on January 04, 2013, 01:29:05 PM
Diseccation change makes me happy
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marvaddin on January 04, 2013, 02:50:30 PM
Let me check this.

Yes, the new trainer version gives me the cards when I click button. Curiously, and I dunno if its on purpose, the rare cards (weapons, squid, pharaoh, but not miracle) I got 12 unupped and 12 upped.

Now that shards are in elements (and I still think we could get different names / images for them), a few considerations about the new shards.

- Entropy Shard is supposed to be a rainbow card. Now that it costs entropy quanta, the fact it generates an entropy card is a bad thing. Should we remove this?

- Death Shard, on the other hand, looks perfect for a mono. But I think Death has already good rush and stall skills. I would go with removing all the quanta. The cost can be low, because you also pay the health.

- Gravity Shard is still broken. 6 and 4 are a low cost. Cant it be like 7 and 6? I know it starts as 0/1, but there are other creatures you can remove with CC that dont have all that bad effect for the opponent and arent almost protected after the 1st use, and cost more quanta. I really think it should cost more. The way it is, its still something to have in every deck with gravity quanta. You should risk a bit more of your resources for something that, if not insta-killed, would have a big effect.

- Earth shard is almost useless and dont deserve to be a rare, I think. What about design a new card? We could still have a shard golem card that removes your shards and creates a creature (if not removing the shard theme once and for all, which would be great).

- Life shard is also not powerful enough. Sanctuary heals you more (unless you mark is Life) and protect you quanta. How about remove the element related effect, and let it heal everyone 5?

- Fire shard looks good. If we are going to remove other element related effects, this one could go as well. 3 cards to everyone.

- Water shard will be now one of the most powerful. I imagine RoL Hope with RoLs that are hard to remove and can grow to OHKO Ferox. And I like the side effect, because its in fact an interaction with Flooding instead of a free mark based thing. A must have in the FGs Killer decks that will come.

- Light shard: I would also remove the light effect and heal everyone 24, or maybe return it to 20.

- Air shard: I dont know enough about this card to say much, but cost looks cheap.

- Time shard: I would go with 1 skill use for every creature (all elements) for each shard, just like it was in the original idea. Strange thing this more than ready effect. If I remember well, the problem was combined with Dive. Anyway, I would prefer something that could give "readiness" for creatures from other elements too, even if its possible just 1 use per turn (shards beyond the first on the same creature would have no effect).

- Darkness shard: again, remove the element effect and let it work for 3 HP for everyone. Maybe even 4, its a weak card.

- Aether shard is ok, but I dislike the immortal part of the effect. Spell damage, which is an interesting mechanic, not only uses aether quanta, its almost restricted to aether.


About the other cards.

- Graviton Mercenary: isnt the upgraded version a bit too strong compared to the unupgraded, getting both reduced cost and better stats? Dunno, I think I would go 5/7 for 3 quanta.

- Dry Spell: liked the new upgraded version. What does "remove invisibility" means? Removes immortal status? Removes Cloak?

- Salvagers: are they really supposed to be THIS cheap? Upgraded PA costs 1 (2 unupgraded), both salvagers will cost 1 unupgraded?!? Renewable permanent protection should cost, I think, at least 5 quanta, and not have enough stats to be a good attacker, like this Phase Salvager. I would opt for like 4 quanta cost (a little cheaper because it requires another card) for 3/0 (upgraded) and 1/0. Should be used because of the effect, not having attack higher than cards like Abyss / Blue Crawler, and even less being playable by every element using a Nova. Graviton Salvager stats are ok (considering the high HP for being Gravity) to a cost of 5. Salvagers costing 1 is crazy.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on January 04, 2013, 03:00:30 PM
What about making Shard of Integrity "Other", and come up with a brand new shard for Earth?
The fact that combines all the shards seems fitting in Other to me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 04, 2013, 03:07:36 PM
Let me check this.

Yes, the new trainer version gives me the cards when I click button. Curiously, and I dunno if its on purpose, the rare cards (weapons, squid, pharaoh, but not miracle) I got 12 unupped and 12 upped.

Now that shards are in elements (and I still think we could get different names / images for them), a few considerations about the new shards.

- Entropy Shard is supposed to be a rainbow card. Now that it costs entropy quanta, the fact it generates an entropy card is a bad thing. Should we remove this?

- Death Shard, on the other hand, looks perfect for a mono. But I think Death has already good rush and stall skills. I would go with removing all the quanta. The cost can be low, because you also pay the health.

- Gravity Shard is still broken. 6 and 4 are a low cost. Cant it be like 7 and 6? I know it starts as 0/1, but there are other creatures you can remove with CC that dont have all that bad effect for the opponent and arent almost protected after the 1st use, and cost more quanta. I really think it should cost more. The way it is, its still something to have in every deck with gravity quanta. You should risk a bit more of your resources for something that, if not insta-killed, would have a big effect.

- Earth shard is almost useless and dont deserve to be a rare, I think. What about design a new card? We could still have a shard golem card that removes your shards and creates a creature (if not removing the shard theme once and for all, which would be great).

- Life shard is also not powerful enough. Sanctuary heals you more (unless you mark is Life) and protect you quanta. How about remove the element related effect, and let it heal everyone 5?

- Fire shard looks good. If we are going to remove other element related effects, this one could go as well. 3 cards to everyone.

- Water shard will be now one of the most powerful. I imagine RoL Hope with RoLs that are hard to remove and can grow to OHKO Ferox. And I like the side effect, because its in fact an interaction with Flooding instead of a free mark based thing. A must have in the FGs Killer decks that will come.

- Light shard: I would also remove the light effect and heal everyone 24, or maybe return it to 20.

- Air shard: I dont know enough about this card to say much, but cost looks cheap.

- Time shard: I would go with 1 skill use for every creature (all elements) for each shard, just like it was in the original idea. Strange thing this more than ready effect. If I remember well, the problem was combined with Dive. Anyway, I would prefer something that could give "readiness" for creatures from other elements too, even if its possible just 1 use per turn (shards beyond the first on the same creature would have no effect).

- Darkness shard: again, remove the element effect and let it work for 3 HP for everyone. Maybe even 4, its a weak card.

- Aether shard is ok, but I dislike the immortal part of the effect. Spell damage, which is an interesting mechanic, not only uses aether quanta, its almost restricted to aether.


About the other cards.

- Graviton Mercenary: isnt the upgraded version a bit too strong compared to the unupgraded, getting both reduced cost and better stats? Dunno, I think I would go 5/7 for 3 quanta.

- Dry Spell: liked the new upgraded version. What does "remove invisibility" means? Removes immortal status? Removes Cloak?

- Salvagers: are they really supposed to be THIS cheap? Upgraded PA costs 1 (2 unupgraded), both salvagers will cost 1 unupgraded?!? Renewable permanent protection should cost, I think, at least 5 quanta, and not have enough stats to be a good attacker, like this Phase Salvager. I would opt for like 4 quanta cost (a little cheaper because it requires another card) for 3/0 (upgraded) and 1/0. Should be used because of the effect, not having attack higher than cards like Abyss / Blue Crawler, and even less being playable by every element using a Nova. Graviton Salvager stats are ok (considering the high HP for being Gravity) to a cost of 5. Salvagers costing 1 is crazy.

i partialy agree on the life shard, it's a bit UP IMO but letting it heal every for 5 HP will kinda make it an all-round shard instead of a life card like it is suposed to become, i personaly would do it like this: heals 5 every turn regardles of mark but if you have life mark you get a bonus for every aditional shard of gratitude

and removing invisibility just removes cloak

and about focus, yeah it's still going to be a powerfull card, but it at least makes it imposible to build a mono aether with focus like some people in arena did, idk if focus will still be OP though, and if it remains OP i'd be in favor of giving it a cost to activate the effect, maybe like this: 1st permanent destruction=1 of any quanta 2nd permanent=1 gravity quanta and 3rd permanent=2 gravity quanta, also the black hole generated could be changed a bit, maybe something like a minor black hole that doesn't absorb 3 quanta of each elements

but, as i always say, it's zanz's game, he makes it, so he makes the rules
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on January 04, 2013, 03:08:13 PM
What about making Shard of Integrity "Other", and come up with a brand new shard for Earth?
The fact that combines all the shards seems fitting in Other to me.
Seconded.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 04, 2013, 03:11:38 PM
What about making Shard of Integrity "Other", and come up with a brand new shard for Earth?
The fact that combines all the shards seems fitting in Other to me.
Seconded.
thirded? idk how to say that lol

i was thinking about going to the card ideas section to propose the idea of an other shard lol
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cunning_Wish on January 04, 2013, 03:43:12 PM
My idea of balance SoSac:

unuped cost 5 :death infilct 40 damage, 32 if mark is death, also remove death quanta.

upped cost 4 :death infilct 40 damage, 32 if mark is death, also remove death quanta.

sosac is also powerful, because of its low cost.
at 1.31, it cost 0, means some deck without mono death can work with it .the deck work with Sosac is only posion,posion,posion.......and use SoSac to make sure your life. it is much boring than 1.31, because some deck not base on mono death which is interisting can't still work now.
but with 1.32 almost  other shards nerf, sosac is still powerful.

the problem of sosac is too power is its low cost, Especially mono death, posion only cost 2 :death, you can posion+sosac easily, and bonewall is a great shield, but in monodeath, sosac is much better than bone wall.
so sosac should be nerf,Especially mono dath deck, so it should also remove death quanta. and increace cost.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 04, 2013, 04:06:07 PM
i partialy agree on the life shard, it's a bit UP IMO but letting it heal every for 5 HP will kinda make it an all-round shard instead of a life card like it is suposed to become, i personaly would do it like this: heals 5 every turn regardles of mark but if you have life mark you get a bonus for every aditional shard of gratitude

Am I the only one that finds this funny? I mean, I know metas shift and all, but does anyone remember the choir of "OP" for the original Shard of Gratitude? Does anyone remember CCYB being the best FG killer? I mean, wow, right?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 04, 2013, 04:13:29 PM
i partialy agree on the life shard, it's a bit UP IMO but letting it heal every for 5 HP will kinda make it an all-round shard instead of a life card like it is suposed to become, i personaly would do it like this: heals 5 every turn regardles of mark but if you have life mark you get a bonus for every aditional shard of gratitude

Am I the only one that finds this funny? I mean, I know metas shift and all, but does anyone remember the choir of "OP" for the original Shard of Gratitude? Does anyone remember CCYB being the best FG killer? I mean, wow, right?
SoG is fine as is.

Firestall bad.
CCYB bad.
Arena abuse bad.
BAD BAD BAD
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 04, 2013, 04:21:03 PM
i partialy agree on the life shard, it's a bit UP IMO but letting it heal every for 5 HP will kinda make it an all-round shard instead of a life card like it is suposed to become, i personaly would do it like this: heals 5 every turn regardles of mark but if you have life mark you get a bonus for every aditional shard of gratitude

Am I the only one that finds this funny? I mean, I know metas shift and all, but does anyone remember the choir of "OP" for the original Shard of Gratitude? Does anyone remember CCYB being the best FG killer? I mean, wow, right?
SoG is fine as is.

Firestall bad.
CCYB bad.
Arena abuse bad.
BAD BAD BAD

Nooooooo it's soooooo ooooooppppppppppppppppp!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on January 04, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Just.. I want to see the shards removed its elemental-love mechanics.
I mean, they are in-elements now, do we really need that parts?

My sugg:

:entropy first one can be any element, not only entropy.
:death up up up the cost(at least 3 to protect against abusing it from just a mark), and also remove death quanta.
:gravity cost up and remove giving BH. Additionally make it just remove 2 perms if without damages.
:earth I want completely different one. Current one should be an :other shard.
:life make it heals 5 to any mark with cost increase to 5|4. (donno, but original SoG was OP as hell(3 quanta for 5 healing).)
:fire make it 2 cards regardless of the mark.
:water remove the HP buff and relation with flooding.
:air cost increase, <remove evading effect>or<provide evading for any airbornes>
:light +20 max HP and +20 current HP for any mark.
:darkness -3 max HP AND -3 current HP. make it deals damage at the same time.
:time make skill cost zero. No ability recharge for any creature.
:aether target creature gain +2|+0 and now deals spell damage. Cannot target immaterials. Cost decrease to 2|1(like Momentum).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 04:32:49 PM
Nooo, don't let Elements go back to monotonous. The shards are like the "trump card" for every element. Removing the gimmicks would make them generic.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on January 04, 2013, 04:43:17 PM
Actually, I never liked making the shard to 12 elements series. Original 3(2? :P) shards were perfect.
If we really need those cards, there should be the other general(not trump) series not shards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 05:31:06 PM
Actually, I never liked making the shard to 12 elements series. Original 3(2? :P) shards were perfect.
If we really need those cards, there should be the other general(not trump) series not shards.

The shards help the game evolve, do they not?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marvaddin on January 04, 2013, 08:21:09 PM
In fact, SoG used to cost 2 generic quanta. A common start of T50 decks (those that didnt put farms on) was QT, QT, SoG, SoG, Sog. Then was nerfed to 3. But a great part of the abuse was due to the generic quanta cost. As Life card, it will limit the use of other Life cards, and cant possibly be put into play so quickly using QT. A cost of 3 :life would probably do it. CCYB bad? Lol? It was a fun deck, which was not broken (never got a really high win ratio, by the way).

Just.. I want to see the shards removed its elemental-love mechanics.
I mean, they are in-elements now, do we really need that parts?

My sugg:

:entropy first one can be any element, not only entropy.
:death up up up the cost(at least 3 to protect against abusing it from just a mark), and also remove death quanta.
:gravity cost up and remove giving BH. Additionally make it just remove 2 perms if without damages.
:earth I want completely different one. Current one should be an :other shard.
:life make it heals 5 to any mark with cost increase to 5|4. (donno, but original SoG was OP as hell(3 quanta for 5 healing).)
:fire make it 2 cards regardless of the mark.
:water remove the HP buff and relation with flooding.
:air cost increase, <remove evading effect>or<provide evading for any airbornes>
:light +20 max HP and +20 current HP for any mark.
:darkness -3 max HP AND -3 current HP. make it deals damage at the same time.
:time make skill cost zero. No ability recharge for any creature.
:aether target creature gain +2|+0 and now deals spell damage. Cannot target immaterials. Cost decrease to 2|1(like Momentum).

I agree a lot with you, choongmyoung. I would like to see the side effects of the shards based on elements removed.

3 :death for Shard of Sacrifice looks ok, should remove all quanta.

About SoFo, loved the suggestion of giving it 2 PC instead of 3. I also think about remove the BH, but didnt get a good option to limit use. Hmmm, maybe something like that: starts as 0/10, each time skill is used it gets +6/-6. So its almost impossible to eliminate it before 1 use, it would give you 1 PC most times. Then it would be 6/4, giving you some damage (according to opponent shield, however, in this case wouldnt be bad let it have momentum).  Then you can keep it as 6/4 (with momentum?) creature, or use for a 2nd PC and have it attacking a last time for 12/0. Its on purpose I suggested 10 HP and -6 (not -5), so it cant have one more charge just by using a Momentum. Of course, a Blessing can be used, etc... But at least requiring more cards and from another elements. Having 1 card destroying 3 for free, and still a BH is too much.

Agreed about  :earth having another shard. Maybe something that can protect your cards, instead of those Salvagers.

About Readiness, I would really like the "ready" effect doable by every creature. Once per turn is good enough. Otherwise the card would be a waste, not really adding to the game.

Same goes with aether shard. The version you have suggested is UP for a shard, could be a normal card.

deidmann, if all the effort put on shards creation was put in creating normal cards, I imagine the game would be much more interesting now. I really doubt shards helped the game evolution.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 08:37:17 PM
So, let's not throw away that effort and ...make the shards and their effects two different series of cards.
That should work, right?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 04, 2013, 08:54:17 PM
So, let's not throw away that effort and ...make the shards and their effects two different series of cards.
That should work, right?
Are you willing to wait (likely) another year for that? I. Wouldn't mind terribly, but doing that seems like a lot of trouble when it should be solved now rather than later.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 04, 2013, 09:05:44 PM
So, let's not throw away that effort and ...make the shards and their effects two different series of cards.
That should work, right?
Are you willing to wait (likely) another year for that? I. Wouldn't mind terribly, but doing that seems like a lot of trouble when it should be solved now rather than later.

Another year? Oh my, I didn't know making cards takes that long.
... How long does it take for 1 card to be considered, thought about for an effect, get art for it, and program it hope fully bug-free, anyways?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 04, 2013, 09:18:18 PM
So, let's not throw away that effort and ...make the shards and their effects two different series of cards.
That should work, right?
Are you willing to wait (likely) another year for that? I. Wouldn't mind terribly, but doing that seems like a lot of trouble when it should be solved now rather than later.

Another year? Oh my, I didn't know making cards takes that long.
... How long does it take for 1 card to be considered, thought about for an effect, get art for it, and program it hope fully bug-free, anyways?
Ask if Zanz has plans for another patch in the next year. And you say 1 card, but are referring to making 12 new effects, to be balanced and added. It may or may not take long for 1, but 12..
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Naesala on January 04, 2013, 09:21:49 PM
So, let's not throw away that effort and ...make the shards and their effects two different series of cards.
That should work, right?
Are you willing to wait (likely) another year for that? I. Wouldn't mind terribly, but doing that seems like a lot of trouble when it should be solved now rather than later.

Another year? Oh my, I didn't know making cards takes that long.
... How long does it take for 1 card to be considered, thought about for an effect, get art for it, and program it hope fully bug-free, anyways?
Theres no exact say on how long it takes for a card to be added (It's mostly on Zanz's whims) but, for example, the soon to be added Dry Spell was designed in August of 2011
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: hainkarga on January 04, 2013, 10:51:29 PM
Love the graviton guard buff. It is now possible to make solid rushy mono-gravity decks. Guard is going to become one of the fractal-worthy creatures and changes should also help team gravity in war. The high hp (beating shockwave, lightning, rage potion) and low quanta cost make it on par with charger.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 745 745 745 747 747 747 747 747 747 74a 74a 74a 74a 74c 74i 74i 74i 74i 74i 8pl
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Naesala on January 04, 2013, 11:31:33 PM
Zanz, for the graviton Mercenary/guard buff, all my loves. It's always been my favorite card even if it was super weak.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: sk1ll3t on January 04, 2013, 11:55:26 PM
This should be nice  :-[ :-[ I can't wait
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 12:46:50 AM
Updated OP.

The game graphics have been optimized; the game should now run much smoother and faster on most computers. Test the trainer!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 05, 2013, 12:54:43 AM
Updated OP.

The game graphics have been optimized; the game should now run much smoother and faster on most computers. Test the trainer!
Speed update is quite welcome, especially since it makes an 'All Cards' deck builder load smoothly as well. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 01:26:20 AM
1.32 will probably go live in about 1 hour.

1.32 is not compatible with 1.31: for a few hours it will be common to experience pvp desynch if playing against an opponent with a different game version.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 05, 2013, 01:34:07 AM
Good thing I prepared poison dials and wrecking ball ahead of time!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UTAlan on January 05, 2013, 01:46:38 AM
1.32 will probably go live in about 1 hour.

1.32 is not compatible with 1.31: for a few hours it will be common to experience pvp desynch if playing against an opponent with a different game version.

This is fantastic.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Elbirn on January 05, 2013, 01:50:47 AM
1.32 will probably go live in about 1 hour.

1.32 is not compatible with 1.31: for a few hours it will be common to experience pvp desynch if playing against an opponent with a different game version.

This is fantastic.

*Claps/Jumps up and down like a giddy school girl*

Will 1.32 be as the trainer is now? Or were other balancing changes made first?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on January 05, 2013, 02:09:13 AM
1.32 in nao.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 02:09:17 AM
1.32 is now live.

The new cards (as usual) will be available tomorrow.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 05, 2013, 02:11:59 AM
Awesome. Thank you Zanz :3
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: n00b on January 05, 2013, 02:22:32 AM
Singularity's art doesn't show when it's in the field, only when you put your mouse over it.

Also, could you update the Kong PvP costs? They still say 20/30 for PvP 1/2.

Anyways, thanks for the update. I like Guard being all smexy and stuff :)

-n00b
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 05, 2013, 02:24:23 AM
Does optimizing graphics have to do mearly with the image, or was there also code optimization as well?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: pikachufan2164 on January 05, 2013, 02:25:08 AM
The game graphics have been optimized; the game should now run much smoother and faster on most computers.
It's so fast now o:

The game no longer hiccups when I'm loading in decks <3

Thanks Zanz :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 02:28:39 AM
Does optimizing graphics have to do mearly with the image, or was there also code optimization as well?

Both images and code have been optimized.

P.S. : I already fixed the graphic for singularity, the fix will be live in a few hours.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: mathman101 on January 05, 2013, 02:30:39 AM
Already loving the new update, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you Zanz!!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on January 05, 2013, 02:38:29 AM
Shard of Integrity is utterly broken.
Spawns a 0/0 golem with other shards in your hand, card space stays in your hand.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 02:50:22 AM
Shard of Integrity is utterly broken.
Spawns a 0/0 golem with other shards in your hand, card space stays in your hand.

SoI fixed. Reload game and it should be fine.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 05, 2013, 03:12:57 AM
I can play it on my tablet now. Definite improvement. Awesome.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marvaddin on January 05, 2013, 03:18:19 AM
Soooo... thats it. Almost no time to test / feedback, and now we have 2 salvagers at cost 1? Ok, now lets create a broken anti-FG deck and have them nerfed next update.

Sad to see that a lot of people have placed suggestions about shards balance and they were barely considered. This 1.32 could be called 1.32 beta. After several months and zero updates, why it was needed to put a version like this one on THIS fast? I guess I will never know.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 05, 2013, 03:22:14 AM
Got any ideas for this broken anti-FG deck with Salvagers?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 05, 2013, 03:28:14 AM
My 'other' page looks so empty...

I reloaded elements when I saw willng mention in a thread that 1.32 was live, and I have the new shards updated, but I don't see dry spell or the salvagers in the bazaar; are they coming later, or has something gone wrong/I'm retarded and missed something?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Onizuka on January 05, 2013, 03:29:10 AM
1.32 is now live.

The new cards (as usual) will be available tomorrow.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 05, 2013, 03:29:53 AM
I reloaded elements when I saw willng mention in a thread that 1.32 was live, and I have the new shards updated, but I don't see dry spell or the salvagers in the bazaar; are they coming later, or has something gone wrong/I'm retarded and missed something?

The new cards (as usual) will be available tomorrow.

:3

EDIT: Dammit Oni.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on January 05, 2013, 03:33:08 AM
Got any ideas for this broken anti-FG deck with Salvagers?
New New Old Times
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: asymmetry on January 05, 2013, 04:09:22 AM
THANK YOU ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 05, 2013, 04:14:52 AM
I reloaded elements when I saw willng mention in a thread that 1.32 was live, and I have the new shards updated, but I don't see dry spell or the salvagers in the bazaar; are they coming later, or has something gone wrong/I'm retarded and missed something?

The new cards (as usual) will be available tomorrow.

:3

EDIT: Dammit Oni.

Don't worry I thought it too. In fact that's the only reason I'm looking at the posts to this thread :P

I'm excited about Dry Spell, The Graviton Salvager and even Thunderstorm, not quite sure the use of the Aether Salvager though...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: vrt on January 05, 2013, 04:22:19 AM
Now if only we could get some new foils (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,41611.0.html) *winkwinknudge*
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on January 05, 2013, 05:29:18 AM
Now if only we could get some new foils (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,41611.0.html) *winkwinknudge*
OMG.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 05, 2013, 06:24:17 AM
WARNING

Someone in chat was complaining that they were banned because they clicked on 'more quanta' and 'more electrum' buttons.  These are erroneously in 1.32 under 'quests', and the game will BAN you if you click on those.  So, it would be wise NOT to click on those...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Ryujin watatsumi on January 05, 2013, 06:38:53 AM
I love it, the new minor vamp are is bad ass! AI seams to work better also. However doesn't changing the shards to their elements severely weaken and almost make useless the shard of integrity?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 06:42:27 AM
ver 1.321:

Fixed quest buttons bug.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Ryujin watatsumi on January 05, 2013, 06:46:51 AM
WARNING

Someone in chat was complaining that they were banned because they clicked on 'more quanta' and 'more electrum' buttons.  These are erroneously in 1.32 under 'quests', and the game will BAN you if you click on those.  So, it would be wise NOT to click on those...

What about the all cards button also in there?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 05, 2013, 06:48:03 AM
ver 1.321:

Fixed quest buttons bug.

I guess some people got banned for clicking on the buttons caused by the bug. Is there anything you can do for that?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Xenocidius on January 05, 2013, 06:48:32 AM
WARNING

Someone in chat was complaining that they were banned because they clicked on 'more quanta' and 'more electrum' buttons.  These are erroneously in 1.32 under 'quests', and the game will BAN you if you click on those.  So, it would be wise NOT to click on those...

What about the all cards button also in there?
That as well. It would be wise to avoid clicking any buttons that obviously shouldn't be there. If they are still there, hard refresh by pressing Ctrl+F5. Thanks, Zanz!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 06:51:32 AM
ver 1.321:

Fixed quest buttons bug.

I guess some people got banned for clicking on the buttons caused by the bug. Is there anything you can do for that?

I lifted the bans. But the database will permanently delete accounts that gained a significant amount of cards or electrum exploiting the bug.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Ryujin watatsumi on January 05, 2013, 06:55:35 AM
ver 1.321:

Fixed quest buttons bug.

I guess some people got banned for clicking on the buttons caused by the bug. Is there anything you can do for that?

I lifted the bans. But the database will permanently delete accounts that gained a significant amount of cards or electrum exploiting the bug.

Ouch thats harsh... can't you just reset the account to before the update? It's a little work but should be able to be done.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Hiros on January 05, 2013, 07:22:10 AM
I just won a Shard of Focus by spin in Silver League and for some reason the AI can't recognize it as a  :gravity card, placing it in the "other cards" section. It's wierd because all of the shards i had pre-1.32 are in the right places  :-\
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 05, 2013, 08:24:21 AM
Minor thing:

Oracle still says Yes/No when he awards the card. That is now superfluous.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: hainkarga on January 05, 2013, 08:26:58 AM
Akebono just Sofo machine-guned my pendulums. I hope this SoFo will be gone in future patches, prevents gameplay .
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 05, 2013, 09:22:45 AM
Is it me, or is the trainer unavailable? It says to go to the newest version of elementsthegame.net even though it is .com.
But that takes me to the main game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Kuroaitou on January 05, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
Is it me, or is the trainer unavailable? It says to go to the newest version of elementsthegame.net even though it is .com.
But that takes me to the main game.

I think that's intentional, considering the trainer bug that was occurring earlier.

That being said, whoa. 1.32 came out a lot faster than I expected. >.> I kind of wished for a bunch of new cards (40 card patch!), but shards being moved to their respective element (interestingly enough...) as well as a few minor changes here and there are good enough. :) Thanks again zanz. I wonder how this will affect war.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 05, 2013, 09:42:05 AM
Is it me, or did you improve the loading speed of the deck screen by quite a lot?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Shantu on January 05, 2013, 09:46:42 AM
Updated OP.

The game graphics have been optimized; the game should now run much smoother and faster on most computers. Test the trainer!

He did.

Nice stuff, I didn't expect the update to come so fast. Maybe small, quick updates finally become a reality.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 05, 2013, 10:00:03 AM
Nice stuff, I didn't expect the update to come so fast. Maybe small, quick updates finally become a reality.
Don't jinx it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 10:53:41 AM
1.32 is now live.

The new cards (as usual) will be available tomorrow.

*head explodes and i dance in a shower of my brain* i love how the shards now each have an element, in a way it's like i'm playing a whole new game!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Broodjebal on January 05, 2013, 11:14:51 AM
Nice update... sold my shards, since they're completely useless now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 11:27:08 AM
anyone else has trouble with the trainer? i can't seem to get it working :(
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Scaramanga on January 05, 2013, 12:07:10 PM
Nice uppdate thx!

Black Hole just became scarier vs Shard of Sacrifice decks. Shard of Patient change made it possible to create a scary Skeleton, Deja Vu or Cell army =)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: yee on January 05, 2013, 12:29:30 PM
Nice new updates.

On another note R.I.P. SPlat.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: tekpau on January 05, 2013, 01:53:24 PM
bodo eh...ak mok shard lamak

cibai eh...upgrade plek2
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on January 05, 2013, 01:56:00 PM
Nice new updates.

On another note R.I.P. SPlat.

Intosis (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42875.msg534726.html#msg534726) is now dead D:

(You know you want to click on it, its not normal Intosis.)

That little warning message when you go to Bazaar, Your Deck, etc., isn't really that noticeable with the new interface. It says something like "cards have been moved" or something. If the warning message was more noticeable, it would help people from losing their minds when they initially go to their deck and they don't look at the other elements.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 05, 2013, 02:03:51 PM
Nice new updates.

On another note R.I.P. SPlat.

Intosis (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42875.msg534726.html#msg534726) is now dead D:

(You know you want to click on it, its not normal Intosis.)

That little warning message when you go to Bazaar, Your Deck, etc., isn't really that noticeable with the new interface. It says something like "cards have been moved" or something. If the warning message was more noticeable, it would help people from losing their minds when they initially go to their deck and they don't look at the other elements.

It seems that Instosis was used a lot for all these "Instosis is dead" comments to pop up. They aren't dead themselves for sure.
I never liked Instosis anyways. The nature of that deck was "Get these cards in hand, gg".
But what if you didn't get them all? What then, buster?
P.S. What's the problem with trainer? I wanna test some stuff.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on January 05, 2013, 02:12:28 PM
Does optimizing graphics have to do mearly with the image, or was there also code optimization as well?

Both images and code have been optimized.

P.S. : I already fixed the graphic for singularity, the fix will be live in a few hours.
OMG ZANZ!
The game is totally fast, even on my old laptop!!!
Thank you, no more 1-hour wait everytime someone cast a Fractal or a Nightmare!
Even SoP is wonderful now, before this optimization i've had to wait for every single creature to delay. Now they delay all together, in an instant!

These optimizations are really important for me, and other people with old computers i guess!
Thanks, wonderful job!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Faro on January 05, 2013, 02:27:36 PM
Does optimizing graphics have to do mearly with the image, or was there also code optimization as well?

Both images and code have been optimized.

P.S. : I already fixed the graphic for singularity, the fix will be live in a few hours.
OMG ZANZ!
The game is totally fast, even on my old laptop!!!
Thank you, no more 1-hour wait everytime someone cast a Fractal or a Nightmare!
Even SoP is wonderful now, before this optimization i've had to wait for every single creature to delay. Now they delay all together, in an instant!

These optimizations are really important for me, and other people with old computers i guess!
Thanks, wonderful job!

the greatest part of this patch IMO
thank you Zanz (you know, here in Italy there aren't fast connections...)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: SinisterSnake on January 05, 2013, 03:16:21 PM
Does optimizing graphics have to do mearly with the image, or was there also code optimization as well?

Both images and code have been optimized.

P.S. : I already fixed the graphic for singularity, the fix will be live in a few hours.
OMG ZANZ!
The game is totally fast, even on my old laptop!!!
Thank you, no more 1-hour wait everytime someone cast a Fractal or a Nightmare!
Even SoP is wonderful now, before this optimization i've had to wait for every single creature to delay. Now they delay all together, in an instant!

These optimizations are really important for me, and other people with old computers i guess!
Thanks, wonderful job!

the greatest part of this patch IMO
thank you Zanz (you know, here in Italy there aren't fast connections...)

Indeed, the faster gameplay is simply amazing. Though I have mixed feelings about some of the shards, this was a great patch! And that doesn't even mention the rad new artwork. Overall, well done!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 04:04:41 PM
The trainer is back.

The new cards will behave like rare cards for the first week and will be available in the bazaar next Sunday.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Dm on January 05, 2013, 04:09:32 PM
The trainer is back.

The new cards will behave like rare cards for the first week and will be available in the bazaar next Sunday.

inb4 bronze electrum rewards falls.

A lot.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 04:33:10 PM
The trainer is back.

The new cards will behave like rare cards for the first week and will be available in the bazaar next Sunday.

i bet half of my shard collection that some people will nearly have full sets before sunday
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on January 05, 2013, 04:34:06 PM
Zanz good patch just a few things.

Bravey is little to strong you might consider a cost increase or anything.

Sop is too powerful with Bal you might consider changing sop ability so they attack first turn and then gets the buff. It also becomes to good with the aether salvager.

Also everyone would love to see you in chat.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: cometbah on January 05, 2013, 04:44:18 PM
The optimization!

That was the first thing that alerted me to the update (followed shortly by new card images).

I came to post about it in case it was unintentional, but it seems like it was, in fact, intentional, and very successful!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 04:45:57 PM
The trainer is back.

The new cards will behave like rare cards for the first week and will be available in the bazaar next Sunday.

i checked the trainer, it's still telling me i can't use it
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 05, 2013, 05:15:41 PM
The trainer is back.

The new cards will behave like rare cards for the first week and will be available in the bazaar next Sunday.

i checked the trainer, it's still telling me i can't use it
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer
Works for me.

So zanz, is there any chance of that music being added to the game? The one from the youtuber?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 05, 2013, 05:36:04 PM
The trainer is back.

The new cards will behave like rare cards for the first week and will be available in the bazaar next Sunday.

i checked the trainer, it's still telling me i can't use it

Clear your browser's cache (or cookies, I know it's one of these).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 05, 2013, 06:15:19 PM
I'm going to have to play Elements on my new laptop and see how well it runs after the optimizations. It was struggling before D:
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Troh on January 05, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Amazing, thank you.

EDIT: You had mentioned Trials in an earlier thread you made here, will that be implemented soon (patch-wise) as well?

(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/7509/gsalv.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img846/9388/dryspell.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img171/8403/psalv.png)

(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/713/chrysoara.png)
(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/707/shrieker.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img585/1695/vampt.png)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7972/tstorm.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/2769/sop.png)
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/60/sowj.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img441/6504/sorz.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img13/44/sodvw.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img547/8774/sog.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img189/7053/sosac.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/9596/sov.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/7540/sosee.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img94/5561/sofo.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img703/8420/sobe.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img545/2606/soi.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img547/9354/sofr.png)

Sorry for the non-perfect cropping, but eh.

SoS costs 2



THX ZANZ for updates! Good balancing
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Ryujin watatsumi on January 05, 2013, 07:51:37 PM
When are we getting a ton of new cards in an update? I think the game would be a hell of a lot more dynamic with more cards to pick from.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: n00b on January 05, 2013, 07:52:49 PM
We did recently (patch-wise), as we got all of those new shards, and Psion/Seraph (assuming that was 1.30) in v1.30.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 05, 2013, 08:08:25 PM
Thanks to the graphic optimization the "almost-non-turn-based" is back, new, and improved in the trainer.

It is currently called "chaos mode" (for lack of a better name) and you can test it clicking on the "chaos mode" button in the trainer.

It is even possible that one day "chaos mode" will be added to the game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 05, 2013, 08:12:02 PM
Thanks to the graphic optimization the "almost-non-turn-based" is back, new, and improved in the trainer.

It is currently called "chaos mode" (for lack of a better name) and you can test it clicking on the "chaos mode" button in the trainer.

It is even possible that one day "chaos mode" will be added to the game.

O.o

Yay Zanz!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: n00b on January 05, 2013, 08:12:44 PM
Btw, since Avenger posted in chat and I thought I'd ask you here, do you think a fix in Spectator Mode will happen?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 05, 2013, 08:14:07 PM
It is even possible that one day "chaos mode" will be added to the game.
That old Halloween present? I look forward to this :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: EmeraldTiger on January 05, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
Thanks to the graphic optimization the "almost-non-turn-based" is back, new, and improved in the trainer.

It is currently called "chaos mode" (for lack of a better name) and you can test it clicking on the "chaos mode" button in the trainer.

It is even possible that one day "chaos mode" will be added to the game.
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
Thanks to the graphic optimization the "almost-non-turn-based" is back, new, and improved in the trainer.

It is currently called "chaos mode" (for lack of a better name) and you can test it clicking on the "chaos mode" button in the trainer.

It is even possible that one day "chaos mode" will be added to the game.

no intention of being offensive in any way, but i think i just came a little...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on January 05, 2013, 09:23:28 PM
Am I the only who can't discard in trainer? It just ends the turn even though my hand is full.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: willng3 on January 05, 2013, 09:35:20 PM
It's likely a side effect of Chaos Mode.  If it's occurring even after it's disabled then that should be fixed, yeah :L
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 09:36:27 PM
It's likely a side effect of Chaos Mode.  If it's occurring even after it's disabled then that should be fixed, yeah :L

click the button again, it worked for me
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on January 05, 2013, 09:39:16 PM
It's likely a side effect of Chaos Mode.  If it's occurring even after it's disabled then that should be fixed, yeah :L

Well, I never turned the modus on?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
It's likely a side effect of Chaos Mode.  If it's occurring even after it's disabled then that should be fixed, yeah :L

Well, I never turned the modus on?

report it in the bugs section, it'll be fixed
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on January 05, 2013, 09:42:44 PM
It's likely a side effect of Chaos Mode.  If it's occurring even after it's disabled then that should be fixed, yeah :L

Well, I never turned the modus on?

report it in the bugs section, it'll be fixed

I made a reload. Suddenly works xP
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 05, 2013, 09:44:00 PM
It's likely a side effect of Chaos Mode.  If it's occurring even after it's disabled then that should be fixed, yeah :L

Well, I never turned the modus on?

report it in the bugs section, it'll be fixed

I made a reload. Suddenly works xP

i believe zanz has been working all day to remove every bug he or we find, damn i'd hug the hell out of him if i saw him now! i feel like it's christmass!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 05, 2013, 10:34:52 PM
I would probably play this game so much more (and by so much more, I mean start playing again) if chaos mode was added to the main game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 05, 2013, 11:17:57 PM
@Zanzarino

all your activity and updates inspire me to work on my own card game.

thank you.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Faro on January 05, 2013, 11:19:39 PM
need to change wiki link in the game with the new one http://elementscommunity.org/wiki
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Zarathustra1883 on January 05, 2013, 11:38:58 PM
Thank you for this Update! I hated all those shard decks, which will now be way more difficult to build.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 05, 2013, 11:54:20 PM
Nice update... sold my shards, since they're completely useless now.
NONONONOT SHARD OF PATIENCE AND BRAVERY AND SACRIFICE! Those are useful in current FG decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on January 05, 2013, 11:58:28 PM
Nice update... sold my shards, since they're completely useless now.

Overreact much? Apologies for being blunt, but you are going to regret that. Look around the deck section, shards are everywhere, BECAUSE of the new update.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: mfries30 on January 06, 2013, 12:08:44 AM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on January 06, 2013, 12:11:32 AM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

you paid nothing for the use of this game. you are entitled to no compensation. If you want things done differently, learn AS3 and write your own.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on January 06, 2013, 12:13:15 AM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

This is not the answer you want to hear but: Most people in the community despised the ability to quickly draw certain shards (like focus).

On the upped Shard of Serendipity. Was this before 1.32? If so, I have never encountered this error.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 06, 2013, 12:19:05 AM
Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

Council has no direct control over the game, but we'll take the thanks anyways because we're cool like that X)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on January 06, 2013, 12:20:17 AM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

About the shield: if you also had a sanctuary out the shield can't work because sanc prevents the change of your quanta pool in the enemies turn.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Marsu on January 06, 2013, 12:20:30 AM
blub blub blub

2/10 wouldn't read again
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Zarathustra1883 on January 06, 2013, 01:02:19 AM
Quote
About the shield: if you also had a sanctuary out the shield can't work because sanc prevents the change of your quanta pool in the enemies turn.

 :D That nearly killed me in the last match in the Plat Arena! Mindfactoried me ~32 QT so I had 75 each and got me that shard and used the shield it gave me (feeling like a boss then) .... :o...boy was I glad when I was able to put a Dim shield out again!  ;D

Edit: Just realized..sorry for the OT! So I will write down an answer so nobody gets mad at me:

Just because an update forces you to change your tactics you did not waste your time, you just have to learn new. And since this can happen to you in any game I strongly suggest you learn to accept it or maybe search something else to do with your time.

Marsu seems to be in a good mood, I would give you 1/10 only for trying.  ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 06, 2013, 01:10:05 AM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

If you think playing a game is an effective use of your time then you have problems
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: DarkBaron12390 on January 06, 2013, 04:12:11 AM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

Were you under the impression that anybody really liked that rainbows were so prevalent? It's a step in the right direction--rainbows are annoyingly popular.

Only suggestion I have is to overhaul the Earth shard. You won't find many decks capable of functioning with many shards in the deck. Maybe add some kind of mechanic that creates whatever the shards came from--they are shards (of something), right? I can see this as a nice segue into the trials. Complete the (whatever shattered to generate shards). They can be, say, a shard of an extra mark (but only for single player use, up to a maximum of 3. Still weaker than a False God) and you combine them all for it (could encourage more grinding in the arena, since once you get 6 of all shards it's just boring).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 06, 2013, 12:03:42 PM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

just make a new deck then, thats the fun part of a TCG, building decks
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 06, 2013, 06:54:55 PM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

just make a new deck then, thats the fun part of a TCG, building decks
Even though there's no trading.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 06, 2013, 07:42:05 PM
On the upped shard of serendipity when it puts out an upped shield of dissipation it has NOT worked.  Wondering if that bug was fixed.  Also would like info on anyone that strongly thinks changing the shard summoning was one of the most ignorant ideas lately.  Zanzarino has basically made ANY of the rainbows that run shards in them TOTALLY useless.  So are there going to be compensations to summon them more easily ie. Quanta Towers putting out more quanta?  I've upped ALOT of cards to make various arena decks and FG decks that run with shards.  Now Ill have to add seperate pendulums or more towers which render thoese decks toatally useless!  Thank you owner and council, you've effectively wasted ALOT of my time!

just make a new deck then, thats the fun part of a TCG, building decks
Even though there's no trading.

It's not collectible, either.
(It says fantasy card game online instead.)
So FCGO.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on January 06, 2013, 07:46:25 PM
I'd say it's collectible. I mean, you don't physically collect cards, but you can still say you collect the cards, especially the shards and nymphs.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 06, 2013, 07:57:15 PM
I'd say it's collectible. I mean, you don't physically collect cards, but you can still say you collect the cards, especially the shards and nymphs.

Speaking of shards and nymphs, would this game have the technology to let users trade with each other in the future?
Grinding stops being fun once in a while, due to sheer repetitiveness.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 06, 2013, 07:59:49 PM
I'd say it's collectible. I mean, you don't physically collect cards, but you can still say you collect the cards, especially the shards and nymphs.

Speaking of shards and nymphs, would this game have the technology to let users trade with each other in the future?
Grinding stops being fun once in a while, due to sheer repetitiveness.

Technology - yes. I daresay Zanz could even implement that now if he wants.
Except he doesn't want. That is not what Elements is about, at the moment.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on January 06, 2013, 08:03:25 PM
I'd say it's collectible. I mean, you don't physically collect cards, but you can still say you collect the cards, especially the shards and nymphs.

Speaking of shards and nymphs, would this game have the technology to let users trade with each other in the future?
Grinding stops being fun once in a while, due to sheer repetitiveness.

Technology - yes. I daresay Zanz could even implement that now if he wants.
Except he doesn't want. That is not what Elements is about, at the moment.

He has made it quite clear in fact that trading cards is not in his interests whatsoever. His reasoning is how easily the system could be abused.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 06, 2013, 08:50:33 PM
Chaos mode, it's hard to use, because your "turn" "ends" as soon as it starts, yet the ai has the time to play his whole hand.
You also are delayed when the game shows what card you drew.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on January 06, 2013, 09:20:27 PM
Chaos mode, it's hard to use, because your "turn" "ends" as soon as it starts, yet the ai has the time to play his whole hand.
You also are delayed when the game shows what card you drew.

Use Golden Nymphs ;)

Obviously that is a huge bug with the ability to lock the enemy by using the Golden Nymph's ability repeatedly. You can also ignore Stasis (from Sundials) by doing that.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: HiresDaedalus on January 06, 2013, 10:29:55 PM
the more i look at it the more i'm wondering how do you get the cards? other then the trainer.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 06, 2013, 10:48:41 PM
the more i look at it the more i'm wondering how do you get the cards? other then the trainer.

Dry spell and the two salvagers can be won from arena spins.  I don't know if they will always be rares or if that's just temporary while they're new.  The last new card, seraph, went straight to the bazaar, and that's the only new buyable card that's been added since I started nearly two years ago; all the other new cards I've seen were the nine newest shards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 06, 2013, 10:51:03 PM
the more i look at it the more i'm wondering how do you get the cards? other then the trainer.

Dry spell and the two salvagers can be won from arena spins.  I don't know if they will always be rares or if that's just temporary while they're new.  The last new card, seraph, went straight to the bazaar, and that's the only new buyable card that's been added since I started nearly two years ago; all the other new cards I've seen were the nine newest shards.
Psion?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 06, 2013, 10:55:34 PM
Dry spell and the two salvagers can be won from arena spins.  I don't know if they will always be rares or if that's just temporary while they're new.  The last new card, seraph, went straight to the bazaar, and that's the only new buyable card that's been added since I started nearly two years ago; all the other new cards I've seen were the nine newest shards.

It was a day before Seraph went to the bazaar, and yes, this is just temporary.

Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 06, 2013, 11:04:31 PM
Dry spell and the two salvagers can be won from arena spins.  I don't know if they will always be rares or if that's just temporary while they're new.  The last new card, seraph, went straight to the bazaar, and that's the only new buyable card that's been added since I started nearly two years ago; all the other new cards I've seen were the nine newest shards.

It was a day before Seraph went to the bazaar, and yes, this is just temporary.



That being said, it will be available in the Bazaar this coming Sunday.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 06, 2013, 11:07:14 PM
'That being said' is a really strange phrase to use there, considering you didn't contradict me at all :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 06, 2013, 11:50:37 PM
'That being said' is a really strange phrase to use there, considering you didn't contradict me at all :P

I always assumed it was proper to use in an addendum.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on January 07, 2013, 01:29:58 AM
Trainer-chaos mode: removed draw animation.

Much smoother now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on January 07, 2013, 01:52:37 AM
Very quick and smooth with the new Chaos Mode, and you fixed the Golden Nymph lock!

Thank you for making Chaos Mode so smooth and quick, as everything runs correctly.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BluePriest on January 07, 2013, 06:19:24 AM
Could we get the card drawing removed when the ai speed is set to high?
That would be awesome
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: choongmyoung on January 07, 2013, 07:42:30 AM
Could we get the card drawing removed when the ai speed is set to high?
That would be awesome

I second that. SoB card drawing effect will be great.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: SamuraiZach0 on January 07, 2013, 11:32:43 AM
Chaos mode makes my brain melt. I like it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: teffy on January 07, 2013, 09:07:10 PM
The option "no draw animation" is something , which was often wished by the community - could this be also implemented into normal game ?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 07, 2013, 11:07:21 PM
The option "no draw animation" is something , which was often wished by the community - could this be also implemented into normal game ?

Perhaps have an option called "No Animation", which stops all things like the SoFre wing thing, drawing, attacking numbers, quanta gain numbers, but still has the same quality of picture "Hi", "Med", or "Lo". Because Elements looks horrible in low quality.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Zarathustra1883 on January 07, 2013, 11:21:46 PM
The option "no draw animation" is something , which was often wished by the community - could this be also implemented into normal game ?

Perhaps have an option called "No Animation", which stops all things like the SoFre wing thing, drawing, attacking numbers, quanta gain numbers, but still has the same quality of picture "Hi", "Med", or "Lo". Because Elements looks horrible in low quality.

^ Pretty please?  ;D

(http://img.geocaching.com/track/display/ecfd2e62-9e54-4844-a6a2-bf033d8b26fd.jpg)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Gandora on January 07, 2013, 11:35:44 PM
Is it possible to center the images more on the faces of the creatures while playing a game?

Some of them are cut-off and you only see their body. I know it's a superficial issue but I think it'd be nice to see the face of the creature your fighting with and against.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 08, 2013, 12:01:10 AM
Is it possible to center the images more on the faces of the creatures while playing a game?

Some of them are cut-off and you only see their body. I know it's a superficial issue but I think it'd be nice to see the face of the creature your fighting with and against.
Yeah, you can't see Shrieker's head...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: puri1 on January 08, 2013, 12:26:50 AM
It's been said in this thread already but I just have to express my unbridled joy at the shard update. I love how Zanz takes overwhelmingly overused strategies from T500 (now Arena) and makes it so we need to relook at the same old tired decks everyone uses and redesign or scrap them. Also kudos to people who commented they've sold their shards, it'll make it a lot easier to beat you in PvP and arena without those potential gamechangers in your decks  :P

The art, as always, is awesome. But the compression and overall speed increase is by far my favorite part of this patch.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Naesala on January 08, 2013, 04:02:56 AM
Is it possible to center the images more on the faces of the creatures while playing a game?

Some of them are cut-off and you only see their body. I know it's a superficial issue but I think it'd be nice to see the face of the creature your fighting with and against.
Agreed, I can think of several monsters that could benefit
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: SnoWeb on January 08, 2013, 10:26:40 AM
The duo-deck/rainbow-deck ratio just inverted. I'm so grateful for this. This update probably just saved the game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 08, 2013, 02:37:01 PM
Is it possible to center the images more on the faces of the creatures while playing a game?

Some of them are cut-off and you only see their body. I know it's a superficial issue but I think it'd be nice to see the face of the creature your fighting with and against.

+1

Indeed, the new art is nice when looking at the full picture, but the on-board cropped version is not recognizable in a lot of cases, such as the new vampire, shrieker, massive dragon etc. Especially for new players (or people looking over your shoulders) it brings up the 'What the heck is that!?!?" question too often.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cunning_Wish on January 08, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cannibal7 on January 08, 2013, 02:44:19 PM
Dunno whoms idea was 2 change shards in this game. Thanks for ruining my fun 2 play this game any more. Was the only thing i could do 2 relax from real life sh!t. Thanks again! (sarcasm off)

posted here as i was prompt
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 08, 2013, 02:50:52 PM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Used the deck, was unimpressed. Seemed EXACTLY like a normal rush.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deidmann on January 08, 2013, 02:57:00 PM
Dunno whoms idea was 2 change shards in this game. Thanks for ruining my fun 2 play this game any more. Was the only thing i could do 2 relax from real life sh!t. Thanks again! (sarcasm off)

posted here as i was prompt

Your fun "ruined" is someone else's gripe gone. Some people just didn't like shards being Other.
I don't like Shard of Readiness's change either, but I make do.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 08, 2013, 03:16:24 PM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Have you ever played ANY mono-rush?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 08, 2013, 03:21:41 PM
Dunno whoms idea was 2 change shards in this game. Thanks for ruining my fun 2 play this game any more. Was the only thing i could do 2 relax from real life sh!t. Thanks again! (sarcasm off)

posted here as i was prompt

i believe it was zanz's idea
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 08, 2013, 03:25:04 PM
Dunno whoms idea was 2 change shards in this game. Thanks for ruining my fun 2 play this game any more. Was the only thing i could do 2 relax from real life sh!t. Thanks again! (sarcasm off)

posted here as i was prompt

i believe it was zanz's idea
And an amazing idea at that. Hated seeing shard of focus screw me over all the time. Albeit, some of the shards didn't really need to change, but still. For the better.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheAccuso on January 08, 2013, 06:30:56 PM
Please insert also a downgrade option if possible, you know, in most of tournaments organized here upgraded nymphs are not allowed, ty.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 08, 2013, 07:01:58 PM
Please insert also a downgrade option if possible, you know, in most of tournaments organized here upgraded nymphs are not allowed, ty.

seconded, give a small refund to plz lol (don't take me to serious i'm a little braindead due to 6th generation of pokémon being anounced)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 08, 2013, 07:46:24 PM
Please insert also a downgrade option if possible, you know, in most of tournaments organized here upgraded nymphs are not allowed, ty.

Thirded, I'd even be prepared to pay 750 :electrum (or another sum of money) for each downgrade, so it can't be too abused.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 08, 2013, 07:48:59 PM
Please insert also a downgrade option if possible, you know, in most of tournaments organized here upgraded nymphs are not allowed, ty.

Thirded, I'd even be prepared to pay 750 :electrum (or another sum of money) for each downgrade, so it can't be too abused.

Actually, I'd like to see a downgrade option that refunded 500 :electrum at least.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 08, 2013, 08:08:06 PM
Please insert also a downgrade option if possible, you know, in most of tournaments organized here upgraded nymphs are not allowed, ty.

Thirded, I'd even be prepared to pay 750 :electrum (or another sum of money) for each downgrade, so it can't be too abused.

Actually, I'd like to see a downgrade option that refunded 500 :electrum at least.

nono, ask for a 1000 :electrum refund and then haggle a bit, thats the best way to get the price you want, ask more and decrease a bit
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Vangelios on January 08, 2013, 08:27:41 PM
I liked the changes, but I think pegasus need to buff 3 :light, and dimensional shield nerf to 2 turns.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Cunning_Wish on January 09, 2013, 03:21:11 AM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Have you ever played ANY mono-rush?


Rush deck,for example, mono fire, can win in 5 turns.Crem rush deck I used with SoB, can win in 4 turns.But all these rush deck have a problem,they are very weak when opponent have any CC,bone wall,miss shield,sosac,or sth. else. Almost rush deck, of couse it quite fast, BUT the weakness is obvious.

but this sop deck don't like those, it not only fast, also can kill FG, even if you have lightingstrom,firestrom, you can't kill them unless the first turn next opponent put his patience.

I mean, every deck should have disadvantage: Rush deck afraid CC,sosac deck afraid sop or purify, combo deck afraid black hole...you compared this deck with rush deck or mono rush deck. But in fact , it is not a rush deck. rush deck is weak to FGs, rush deck sacrifice all defance to bargain with speed. But this deck based on AEther, Even can add phase shield .
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 09, 2013, 07:23:48 AM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Have you ever played ANY mono-rush?


Rush deck,for example, mono fire, can win in 5 turns.Crem rush deck I used with SoB, can win in 4 turns.But all these rush deck have a problem,they are very weak when opponent have any CC,bone wall,miss shield,sosac,or sth. else. Almost rush deck, of couse it quite fast, BUT the weakness is obvious.

but this sop deck don't like those, it not only fast, also can kill FG, even if you have lightingstrom,firestrom, you can't kill them unless the first turn next opponent put his patience.

I mean, every deck should have disadvantage: Rush deck afraid CC,sosac deck afraid sop or purify, combo deck afraid black hole...you compared this deck with rush deck or mono rush deck. But in fact , it is not a rush deck. rush deck is weak to FGs, rush deck sacrifice all defance to bargain with speed. But this deck based on AEther, Even can add phase shield .

then you have to use cards like firestorm in the first turn, simple as that, it's the same with just about every problem, you have to solve it before it gets to big to handle
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 09, 2013, 01:55:48 PM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Have you ever played ANY mono-rush?


Rush deck,for example, mono fire, can win in 5 turns.Crem rush deck I used with SoB, can win in 4 turns.But all these rush deck have a problem,they are very weak when opponent have any CC,bone wall,miss shield,sosac,or sth. else. Almost rush deck, of couse it quite fast, BUT the weakness is obvious.

but this sop deck don't like those, it not only fast, also can kill FG, even if you have lightingstrom,firestrom, you can't kill them unless the first turn next opponent put his patience.

I mean, every deck should have disadvantage: Rush deck afraid CC,sosac deck afraid sop or purify, combo deck afraid black hole...you compared this deck with rush deck or mono rush deck. But in fact , it is not a rush deck. rush deck is weak to FGs, rush deck sacrifice all defance to bargain with speed. But this deck based on AEther, Even can add phase shield .
I would like to mention, immo rushes are faster and can fit control. The fastest ball lightning + shard of patience can get is turn 4 win, which is going to be uncommon.  3 turns is more then enough to be able to setup something or another.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Plantifant on January 09, 2013, 04:48:55 PM
My deck died because of this update lol.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 09, 2013, 04:51:34 PM
Nerf SoP!!!
sop+Fractal Ball Lighting is overpowerful
a deck without SoB, can win a 100hp in 5 turns
also can beat FGs easily

in 3rd turn, SoP + many ball lighting(at least 7-8) ,growth to 7/2 in end of turn. it has 50+damage, kill pvp in 2 turns, kill FG in 4 turns.steal or destory sop is useless here.also dont afraid of Sosac,or many point CC.
Have you ever played ANY mono-rush?


Rush deck,for example, mono fire, can win in 5 turns.Crem rush deck I used with SoB, can win in 4 turns.But all these rush deck have a problem,they are very weak when opponent have any CC,bone wall,miss shield,sosac,or sth. else. Almost rush deck, of couse it quite fast, BUT the weakness is obvious.

but this sop deck don't like those, it not only fast, also can kill FG, even if you have lightingstrom,firestrom, you can't kill them unless the first turn next opponent put his patience.

I mean, every deck should have disadvantage: Rush deck afraid CC,sosac deck afraid sop or purify, combo deck afraid black hole...you compared this deck with rush deck or mono rush deck. But in fact , it is not a rush deck. rush deck is weak to FGs, rush deck sacrifice all defance to bargain with speed. But this deck based on AEther, Even can add phase shield .
I would like to mention, immo rushes are faster and can fit control. The fastest ball lightning + shard of patience can get is turn 4 win, which is going to be uncommon.  3 turns is more then enough to be able to setup something or another.

Not like this needs any more input, but I'm clearly a Patience lover so here goes.

The TTW of SoP Ball Lightnings barely differs at all to a Mono-Aether Ball-Lightning deck. The options and potential of the Patient deck are faced off by equal weaknesses. For example, if the Patient deck does meet a Thunderstorm, then it will have failed completely to do any damage at all so far. The standard Ball lightning on the other hand doesn't give a flying poop about Creature Control. The trade off is for the greater potential that Patience offers if, obviously, the player is able to be patient.

I'm curious about the potential to rush a FG. But this seems dependent on Phase Shields which means the deck has the same weakness as all Phase Shield decks vs FGs. Consider salvagers?

I would also like to see this 4TTW Ball Lightning deck omegareaper7 described as 'uncommon'. Most of these decks will be running SoP's off of the Water Mark alone, which means you won't have your Upped Patience until the third turn. You would need it on the second to get a 4TTW. Throw in a few Water Towers and it might be possible, but your hand would have to look like this.
5 :aether
1 :water
1 Fractal
1 Spark
1 SoP
You can draw them in any order, but there are no exceptions, and you must play second. So possible, yes, but it'll be pretty uncommon ::) Not intended as a dig at you, omega.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 13, 2013, 12:15:58 AM
http://i.imgur.com/FD48n.png (http://i.imgur.com/FD48n.png)

PantherShah, a chat moderator at Kongregate, witnessed this in his game. So did another user named MPots.  MPots also saw this spelling error of SoW's upgraded form in the bazaar and in the deck area.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 13, 2013, 01:03:36 AM
http://i.imgur.com/FD48n.png (http://i.imgur.com/FD48n.png)

PantherShah, a chat moderator at Kongregate, witnessed this in his game. So did another user named MPots.  MPots also saw this spelling error of SoW's upgraded form in the bazaar and in the deck area.

I'm pretty sure this is just a graphic thing. I too have noticed the ends of words cut off when I am using a low quality.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 13, 2013, 04:12:34 AM
Just in case no one has noticed, but the one week is up, new cards are now in the Bazaar.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 13, 2013, 04:16:53 AM
Just in case no one has noticed, but the one week is up, new cards are now in the Bazaar.

Thanks :)  Had to reload elements to get them into the bazaar.  Trainer edition complete once more :p
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 13, 2013, 04:19:11 AM
I wonder if I'm the first Arena deck with a Dry Spell...?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on January 13, 2013, 04:33:05 AM
I wonder if I'm the first Arena deck with a Dry Spell...?
Maybe, it has been in the bazaar for no more than some minutes
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on January 13, 2013, 04:41:38 AM
I wonder if I'm the first Arena deck with a Dry Spell...?
Maybe, it has been in the bazaar for no more than some minutes
Sorry Drake, I made a Dry spell deck 4 days ago.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 13, 2013, 05:35:15 AM
Just in case no one has noticed, but the one week is up, new cards are now in the Bazaar.
Which means... No refresh time.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 13, 2013, 05:41:08 AM
Just in case no one has noticed, but the one week is up, new cards are now in the Bazaar.
Which means... No refresh time.

Have fun farming, Jenkarp
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 13, 2013, 10:48:50 AM
Just in case no one has noticed, but the one week is up, new cards are now in the Bazaar.
Which means... No refresh time.

Have fun farming, Jenkarp

Zanz my comp. 4 phase, 5 gravy and 2 dry spells. then reboot and now they're not rare anymore. :(
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: braddybarr on January 13, 2013, 07:37:13 PM
God Bless You All Dear developers, and you too our super community :D I hope, my time will allow me to read, write here, and of course play even more and more :D

P.s. First look opinion: Maybe water become little bit stronger than enough.. We will see :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 13, 2013, 10:11:34 PM
God Bless You All Dear developers, and you too our super community :D I hope, my time will allow me to read, write here, and of course play even more and more :D

P.s. First look opinion: Maybe water become little bit stronger than enough.. We will see :D

Developer.  Singular.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 14, 2013, 08:02:19 AM
God Bless You All Dear developers, and you too our super community :D I hope, my time will allow me to read, write here, and of course play even more and more :D

P.s. First look opinion: Maybe water become little bit stronger than enough.. We will see :D

Developer.  Singular.

OMG drakes avatar is drowning! he's right, water HAS become strong, it's invading our avatars :p
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 14, 2013, 01:50:45 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 14, 2013, 02:21:41 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?

i believe it is because it is frozen, other creatures cannot use effects while frozen either
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 14, 2013, 05:36:24 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?

i believe it is because it is frozen, other creatures cannot use effects while frozen either
Devourer still drains while frozen.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Annele on January 14, 2013, 05:47:16 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?

i believe it is because it is frozen, other creatures cannot use effects while frozen either
Devourer still drains while frozen.

No it doesn't; it drains the turn it unfreezes. Voodoo doll is the only creature that comes to mind at present.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on January 14, 2013, 05:49:45 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?

i believe it is because it is frozen, other creatures cannot use effects while frozen either
Devourer still drains while frozen.

No it doesn't; it drains the turn it unfreezes. Voodoo doll is the only creature that comes to mind at present.
Devourer drains when delayed but not frozen.
Voodoo passive is activated when the creature is negatively affected.

That being said, do Salvagers work when delayed but not frozen?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 14, 2013, 07:07:02 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?

i believe it is because it is frozen, other creatures cannot use effects while frozen either

I think all of the quanta producing creatures still do so when frozen, which is why I asked.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Shantu on January 14, 2013, 08:00:11 PM
My frozen graviton salvager just failed to salvage a destroyed card.  Is this intentional or a bug?

i believe it is because it is frozen, other creatures cannot use effects while frozen either

I think all of the quanta producing creatures still do so when frozen, which is why I asked.

Only when delayed. Freeze completely disables them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 15, 2013, 03:39:50 AM
this delayed while frozen thing completely gave me a brain fart. Only thing I understood is that Voodoo Doll is awesome, which I already knew.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on January 15, 2013, 03:56:34 AM
Delayed: passive works
Frozen: passive doesn't work, Shockwave instant kill
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 15, 2013, 04:03:51 AM
ok ty.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: blarp on January 16, 2013, 11:00:57 AM
Interesting. Interesting. Zanz has an odd taste when it comes to implementing and updating cards. Certainly wouldn't have been on my list of soonest to implement, but overall I think this is a good update. And it's good to see Zanz back in action. Interested to see how these changes work their way into the upped meta. Vampire SoW will be interesting along with many other things.
A quite extreme way to nerf sofo I must say :P

Good work. :)


This kills instosis right? Certainly doesn't do any favors to Blarp. I guess reflect shields can be unbanned now :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on January 16, 2013, 02:13:54 PM
@Zanzarino:
Would you like to answer to the new interview the community is making (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45213.0.html), or at least the important part of it?

Also, is the "connections lose = game lose" bug fixable? War can become a mess with it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 16, 2013, 03:29:12 PM
Also, is the "connections lose = game lose" bug fixable?
Buy a better connection.
(I am connecting from a toaster, I know that feel.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on January 16, 2013, 04:52:03 PM
Also, is the "connections lose = game lose" bug fixable?
Buy a better connection.
(I am connecting from a toaster, I know that feel.)
it's not because of me, it's because of my oponents u.u
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 16, 2013, 09:24:27 PM
Buy your opponents a better connection for christmas.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: kimham8a on January 17, 2013, 12:31:32 AM
Also, is the "connections lose = game lose" bug fixable?
Buy a better connection.
(I am connecting from a toaster, I know that feel.)
it's not because of me, it's because of my oponents u.u
'opponents' probably means someone like me. :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on January 17, 2013, 04:03:44 AM
Also, is the "connections lose = game lose" bug fixable?
Buy a better connection.
(I am connecting from a toaster, I know that feel.)
it's not because of me, it's because of my oponents u.u
That's impossible. If your opponent lost connection, then AI will take over. If you lost connection, then you lose.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 17, 2013, 04:06:20 AM
Also, is the "connections lose = game lose" bug fixable?
Buy a better connection.
(I am connecting from a toaster, I know that feel.)
it's not because of me, it's because of my oponents u.u
That's impossible. If your opponent lost connection, then AI will take over. If you lost connection, then you lose.
So, opponent ends his/her turn, but the lag on your computer (the receiving end) takes so long that by the time the timer updates you've timed out?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: iancudorinmarian on January 17, 2013, 04:27:11 PM
off topic: this almost looks like double post from Xenocidius. Change picture NAO!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Absol on January 17, 2013, 05:03:06 PM
off topic: this almost looks like double post from Xenocidius. Change picture NAO!
FYI Xeno himself has confirmed to me personally that it both doesn't break any rules and not a major distraction. So no.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 17, 2013, 07:42:43 PM
I fully agree. It completely confused me. Why so many users with the same avvy..... Cloak....... why not SN :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on January 17, 2013, 07:44:45 PM
I fully agree. It completely confused me. Why so many users with the same avvy..... Cloak....... why not SN :P
Cloak is confusing :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 18, 2013, 01:22:36 AM
I fully agree. It completely confused me. Why so many users with the same avvy..... Cloak....... why not SN :P

War.  That's why.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Luminous on January 18, 2013, 06:44:06 PM
I fully agree. It completely confused me. Why so many users with the same avvy..... Cloak....... why not SN :P

War.  That's why.

Don't say War..
It makes me drink blood whole night.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 18, 2013, 08:05:42 PM
Say War. It makes me hunt those elementa for their taste of blood rather than just for the electrum I'm being payed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: shileka on January 18, 2013, 08:28:41 PM
I fully agree. It completely confused me. Why so many users with the same avvy..... Cloak....... why not SN :P

War.  That's why.

Don't say War..
It makes me drink blood whole night.

care to share? i'm thirsty
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BloodlinE on January 19, 2013, 05:59:31 AM
new cards. new synergys. new meta game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Phaser on January 20, 2013, 10:18:30 PM
I wonder when aether, darkness, light, and life are going to get new cards or get buffed....
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jenkar on January 20, 2013, 10:26:13 PM
It's... not like aether just got a new card. At all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Helston on January 20, 2013, 10:30:32 PM
It's... not like aether just got a new card. At all.

Or one in the patch before that.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: liamjohn16 on January 20, 2013, 10:57:18 PM
Interesting. A card to regenerate lost permanent. I always like to see the deck ideas develop around the cards as they are introduced.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on January 21, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
It's... not like aether just got a new card. At all.

Or one in the patch before that.

And technically another new one seeing as Shards changed...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The Chosen One on February 13, 2013, 02:18:20 AM
now the new target is create a new deck for platinum/gold arena!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Foraker on February 14, 2013, 10:59:07 AM
now the new target is create a new deck for platinum/gold arena!

Try this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,46571.0.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: neuroleptics on February 14, 2013, 02:05:08 PM
oh, this thread is still pretty much alive  8)  tho it's been out for quite some time. i love the  :gravity buff tho salvagers for  :aether :gravity aren't necessary i think. These 2 will soon take the place of flooding (watever it's called)...... unused.
:water 's dry spell is pretty good too...... perfect for  :water .
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on March 18, 2013, 02:51:41 AM
At the top right of your post, there's a modify button. Use that to avoid triple or greater posting.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on April 03, 2013, 04:10:55 AM
With the addition of Dry Spell/Desiccation, and the changes to Thunderstorm/Lightning Storm and some experimental deck playing... there are 2 minor things I would like to see changed: The number of cards that effect Cloak dropped (less likely), and [/i]Gnome Rider/Gnome Gemfinder[/i] increased to the stats of 1/3.

Kind of random, but I felt appropriate for specific theme and mechanical reasons.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: OldTrees on April 03, 2013, 08:36:17 AM
With the addition of Dry Spell/Desiccation, and the changes to Thunderstorm/Lightning Storm and some experimental deck playing... there are 2 minor things I would like to see changed: The number of cards that effect Cloak dropped (less likely), and [/i]Gnome Rider/Gnome Gemfinder[/i] increased to the stats of 1/3.

Kind of random, but I felt appropriate for specific theme and mechanical reasons.
You did not provide your reasoning.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on April 03, 2013, 06:31:23 PM
With the addition of Dry Spell/Desiccation, and the changes to Thunderstorm/Lightning Storm and some experimental deck playing... there are 2 minor things I would like to see changed: The number of cards that effect Cloak dropped (less likely), and [/i]Gnome Rider/Gnome Gemfinder[/i] increased to the stats of 1/3.

Kind of random, but I felt appropriate for specific theme and mechanical reasons.
You did not provide your reasoning.

Well, on a smaller scale of importance, the theme balance between air and earth had Gnome Riders at a slight advantage concerning CC durability. Gnome Riders are a  :earth staple in most Mono-Earth decks and some Earth based-Rainbow decks, leaving me at the belief the new 2 damage Thunderstorm gives a cross theme advantage.

As for my Cloak thoughts, prior to the update I thought of Cloak as almost useless. This is considering the popularity of AoE cards in PVP and high levels of PC. The number of counters to Cloak grow, while the uses for it remain unconventional and far between. I've always felt that Cloak needed an additional reason to use it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: OldTrees on April 04, 2013, 11:40:12 AM
With the addition of Dry Spell/Desiccation, and the changes to Thunderstorm/Lightning Storm and some experimental deck playing... there are 2 minor things I would like to see changed: The number of cards that effect Cloak dropped (less likely), and [/i]Gnome Rider/Gnome Gemfinder[/i] increased to the stats of 1/3.

Kind of random, but I felt appropriate for specific theme and mechanical reasons.
You did not provide your reasoning.

Well, on a smaller scale of importance, the theme balance between air and earth had Gnome Riders at a slight advantage concerning CC durability. Gnome Riders are a  :earth staple in most Mono-Earth decks and some Earth based-Rainbow decks, leaving me at the belief the new 2 damage Thunderstorm gives a cross theme advantage.

As for my Cloak thoughts, prior to the update I thought of Cloak as almost useless. This is considering the popularity of AoE cards in PVP and high levels of PC. The number of counters to Cloak grow, while the uses for it remain unconventional and far between. I've always felt that Cloak needed an additional reason to use it.
1) You are referring to the theme that Earth creatures have more hp in general than Air creatures. Hence Damselfly dies to Drying Spell (unupped) but Gnome Rider survives. If you want the stronger claim that Gnome rider should be able to survive 1 use of Air CC then it would need to increase to 5hp since Shockwave does 4 damage. Earth currently has an hp advantage over Air but I do not see reason to increase the magnitude of the advantage to the point that Gnome Rider survives 1 use of Air CC. Especially since all thematically justified advantages must be paid for with disadvantages/higher costs.

2) I did not find Cloak weak before the update. The number of cards grows and thus the number of counters to Cloak must grow or Cloak must receive a nerf.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on April 06, 2013, 05:34:22 PM
Well, I did start with something along the lines of this being random and unimportant...
Both thought are arguable points that have insignificant effects on the game as a whole, regardless.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: OldTrees on April 07, 2013, 08:48:17 PM
Well, I did start with something along the lines of this being random and unimportant...
Both thought are arguable points that have insignificant effects on the game as a whole, regardless.
It was a chance for me to learn more about the views of the other players. I thank you.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on April 09, 2013, 03:08:44 AM
It was a chance for me to learn more about the views of the other players. I thank you.
My views are pretty elaborate, but thank you for the non-negative opinion of them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Sqantic Pilau on May 11, 2013, 02:21:10 AM
2) I did not find Cloak weak before the update. The number of cards grows and thus the number of counters to Cloak must grow or Cloak must receive a nerf.

I totally agree that cloak was not weak before the update.
However , I must take issue with your second sentence.
To be clear, I question only your logic not your conclusion.
Dry spell is a counter to Cloak alone  (amongst permanents), your second sentence implys that all other perms should be nerfed !
I'm sure you had no intent to make such an implication.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: OldTrees on May 11, 2013, 04:43:38 PM
2) I did not find Cloak weak before the update. The number of cards grows and thus the number of counters to Cloak must grow or Cloak must receive a nerf.

I totally agree that cloak was not weak before the update.
However , I must take issue with your second sentence.
To be clear, I question only your logic not your conclusion.
Dry spell is a counter to Cloak alone  (amongst permanents), your second sentence implys that all other perms should be nerfed !
I'm sure you had no intent to make such an implication.
I am sorry for the inference.
1) My comment never mentions the time scale involved.
2) The number of counters to cloak are greater than the number of counters to permanents in general. Thus counters to cloak should be added more often than counters to permanents in general.
However if the card pool continues to increase and no more PC is added then permanents should be nerfed. (again note I did not mention the time scale)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Brontos on May 13, 2013, 11:49:31 AM
Well... as long as the size of decks stays the same I don't see how that can be a valid argument. Regardless of the potential PC I can add to my deck, I will never play too much of them as I need to match other criterias for my deck (CC, win condition, etc...). Even if tomorrow 200 new permanents are added to the game, I don't see myself putting more than a few selected cards to be my permanent solutions. Some of them are already awesome like Pulv, Sofo or Steal.

Second to that, Cloak already exists. I already know that potentially my opponent will be playing a deck with 30-60 permanents, 6 cloaks included. Still, I don't see that many decks playing more than 3/5 cards to deal with permanents, SoFo excluded.

I understand that as the Ideas Guru you have to see the card pool as a whole, but about this very specific point, I don't follow you. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Tarutao on June 28, 2013, 12:02:29 PM
A big thumbs-up for the little graphical changes with 1.322!  That shine on a drawn card is a nice touch.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Silux on July 10, 2013, 05:40:28 PM
In Elements each card influence the whole system, so changes in metagame will appear in a month or so.
Salvagers indeed weaken further Fate Egg and each other effect involving random creatures.
Thunderstorms and desiccation make even more dangerous the life of little critters like deja-vu, squids, cats, eggs, skeletons, fireflies, photons, newbie lycanthropes...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Beleric on July 15, 2013, 05:24:35 PM
Salvagers indeed weaken further Fate Egg and each other effect involving random creatures.

Forgive my ignorance as I am quite fresh...I was just wondering how Salvagers weaken Fate Eggs?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on July 15, 2013, 06:02:32 PM
Forgive my ignorance as I am quite fresh...I was just wondering how Salvagers weaken Fate Eggs?

Thanks!

Fate Eggs can produce salvagers. Salvagers are generally not very good, so Fate Egg can now produce more generally poor creatures compared to the amount of generally good creatures. So overall, Fate Egg is affected. Very minimally, but still affected.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Beleric on July 15, 2013, 06:05:45 PM
Forgive my ignorance as I am quite fresh...I was just wondering how Salvagers weaken Fate Eggs?

Thanks!

Fate Eggs can produce salvagers. Salvagers are generally not very good, so Fate Egg can now produce more generally poor creatures compared to the amount of generally good creatures. So overall, Fate Egg is affected. Very minimally, but still affected.

Thanks for the fast and clear response!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Silux on July 15, 2013, 06:21:12 PM
And it's weakened also mutation, improved mutation and reverse time ability of skeletons.
But fate egg was already weak.A new set of dragons may buff it up:)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Higurashi on July 15, 2013, 06:34:40 PM
It could be argued Phase Salvager strengthens Mutation because the chance of getting 1-4 HP is high (HP gain is +0-4), and because 4 attack is nice, as is the ability once Phase Salvager has HP.

True for RT on Skellies though.

No way we're getting more Dwagons x)
Anyway, 'nuff off-topic for me.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The Chosen One on July 16, 2013, 08:52:15 PM
any news about elements 1.33?  ;D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: CuCN on July 16, 2013, 08:56:38 PM
any news about elements 1.33?  ;D
So impatient! It hasn't even been 7 months yet! ::)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The Chosen One on July 18, 2013, 03:37:27 PM
any news about elements 1.33?  ;D
So impatient! It hasn't even been 7 months yet! ::)
eheh I'm playing so much, sorry  ;D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on July 22, 2013, 11:06:25 AM
So the game came to 1.323, huh? (see OP)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 22, 2013, 11:32:29 AM
Current version 1.323:
Fixed server problems, added backward compatibility for Elements 1.4.
He's teasing us. What a poop.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Leodip on July 22, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
What's backward compatibility?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 22, 2013, 11:41:23 AM
What's backward compatibility?
"In telecommunications and computing, a product or technology is backward or downward compatible if it can work with input generated by an older product or technology.[1] If products designed for the new standard can receive, read, view or play older standards or formats, then the product is said to be backward-compatible; examples of such a standard include data formats and communication protocols. Modifications to a system that do not allow backward compatibility are sometimes called "breaking changes.""
- Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_compatibility)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Leodip on July 22, 2013, 11:43:54 AM
Like, let's say, PS2 reading games from PSX, right?
I thought it was that, but I couldn't find a meaning to it (why would 1.4 be compatible with other versions?).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: BeefSupreme on July 22, 2013, 11:50:59 AM
Like, let's say, PS2 reading games from PSX, right?
I thought it was that, but I couldn't find a meaning to it (why would 1.4 be compatible with other versions?).
That's kind of what I took from that, but we could be completely wrong..
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on July 22, 2013, 02:19:54 PM
What's backward compatibility?

In this case, to me, it means there may be an update coming.  Since 1.4 is not yet released, backwards compatibility for 1.4 means it will not somehow interfere with previous versions (I had been under the impression once a new version released you had to use that version to save progress).  All told, I am doing my best to keep my hopes down just in case it means nothing more than a couple animations changes and glitch fixes.  Maximum hope it means a new update (real update) is coming.

:-o
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on July 22, 2013, 03:36:25 PM
Current version 1.323:
Fixed server problems, added backward compatibility for Elements 1.4.
Does that mean spectate is fixed?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on July 22, 2013, 03:54:08 PM
Could mean that Zanz has reworked the code for 1.4, meaning there may be quite a few changes mechanics wise as well as an inclusion of some new ones...

Current version 1.323:
Fixed server problems, added backward compatibility for Elements 1.4.
Does that mean spectate is fixed?

How did you get Spectate from that?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 22, 2013, 04:23:13 PM
Could mean that Zanz has reworked the code for 1.4, meaning there may be quite a few changes mechanics wise as well as an inclusion of some new ones...

Current version 1.323:
Fixed server problems, added backward compatibility for Elements 1.4.
Does that mean spectate is fixed?

How did you get Spectate from that?

The generally assumed reason for spectate being borked from what I've heard is that spectate was still pointed at the old server and didn't get updated when the server changed recently.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jyiber on July 22, 2013, 08:27:44 PM
I think he prepped the game code for the next patch, which would be saying he did half the work for the patch to smooth over for when he actually does it. I can't read if that means he's nowhere near done, or 1.4 is very close...

All I really took from this is that Zanz gets a kick out of tormenting people. He did not have to mention 1.4 compatibility. But he did.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: storyteller on July 22, 2013, 09:09:36 PM
+marketing
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The Chosen One on July 23, 2013, 09:30:32 AM

[/quote]
 Maximum hope it means a new update (real update) is coming.

[/quote]

me too bro!  ;D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: andretimpa on July 23, 2013, 12:42:31 PM
Well, the trainer broke with 1.323 ...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TheManuz on July 23, 2013, 06:57:21 PM
I hereby declare that me, TheManuz, upon the release of at least three cards taking inspiration from the CI&A section, will make a donation of at least 10$.
The amount would be increased if the perceived quality of aforesaid cards results of high standards.

I also invite other users to make similar claims!  ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Drake_XIV on July 23, 2013, 08:48:05 PM
I'd like to add to that then.

For every idea used from the CI&A that is implemented after this post, I will donate a minimum of $5 per idea used.
(e.g. Phase and Graviton Salvager are just one idea [Based on: Graviton Salvager]).

Might not be much, but it's something from my thinning wallet I'd like to toss in the name of progress.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Zso_Zso on July 23, 2013, 08:57:29 PM
Well, the trainer broke with 1.323 ...

What do you mean by "broke" ?
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html

^this still works although it says the version is 1.321, so clearly not updated to 1.323, but I'm not sure if those changes were so critical that I would call it "broken" without them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on July 23, 2013, 11:00:34 PM
Well, then, I'd like to take this moment to nominate myself as zanz's new lead playtester!

(j/k of course)

Who else senses a new patch thread coming really (REALLY) soon?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: rob77dp on July 23, 2013, 11:21:29 PM
Well, then, I'd like to take this moment to nominate myself as zanz's new lead playtester!

(j/k of course)

Who else senses a new patch thread coming really (REALLY) soon?

OOOH ooooh!  I do I do!
;D
What's backward compatibility?

In this case, to me, it means there may be an update coming.  Since 1.4 is not yet released, backwards compatibility for 1.4 means it will not somehow interfere with previous versions (I had been under the impression once a new version released you had to use that version to save progress).  All told, I am doing my best to keep my hopes down just in case it means nothing more than a couple animations changes and glitch fixes.  Maximum hope it means a new update (real update) is coming.

:-o
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: andretimpa on July 24, 2013, 01:20:36 PM
Well, the trainer broke with 1.323 ...

What do you mean by "broke" ?
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html

^this still works although it says the version is 1.321, so clearly not updated to 1.323, but I'm not sure if those changes were so critical that I would call it "broken" without them.


There is something weird with it. When I tried to load it home it loaded a swf saying that it was an old version and gave me a button to the main game. I tried to load it at a friend's house and it worked perfectly (didn't tried again back home).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on July 24, 2013, 03:26:01 PM
http://www.elementsthegame.net/development.html

lulz....
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: CuCN on July 24, 2013, 03:56:36 PM
http://www.elementsthegame.net/development.html

lulz....
Were those the cards as they were originally introduced, and they have been buffed since?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Chapuz on July 24, 2013, 04:01:18 PM
http://www.elementsthegame.net/development.html

lulz....
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html (http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: majofa on July 24, 2013, 04:15:46 PM
http://www.elementsthegame.net/development.html

lulz....
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html (http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html)
That's the most recent one... that's not funny at all :p lol
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on July 24, 2013, 05:48:32 PM
The trainer is now working properly
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calindu on July 24, 2013, 06:12:17 PM
The trainer is now working properly

Good(Even if it worked for me)! Can you also fix the spectate please?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: The Chosen One on July 26, 2013, 07:56:42 PM
The trainer is now working properly

perfect  ;D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 31, 2013, 03:42:18 PM
Current version 1.324:
Optimized saving dynamics.
It is now possible to store up to 999 copies of each card.

Does this mean that the total account card cap has been raised to 200-something times 999? Or is the cap still 3999 but you could use that 3999 by having 999 copies of four different cards if you wanted to?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on July 31, 2013, 04:23:01 PM
Current version 1.324:
Optimized saving dynamics.
It is now possible to store up to 999 copies of each card.

Does this mean that the total account card cap has been raised to 200-something times 999? Or is the cap still 3999 but you could use that 3999 by having 999 copies of four different cards if you wanted to?

It means that - at least on the database side - you can have about 200,000 cards at it will still save it all as 1.4kb.
That does not mean that your browser will like that and it might eventually start sending you error messages about memory or script problems.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Rutarete on July 31, 2013, 05:28:17 PM
New beyond Trainer Edition: Addicted Beyond Belief edition :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 31, 2013, 05:33:41 PM
New beyond Trainer Edition: Addicted Beyond Belief edition :P

I'm just happy I can now actually have actual trainer edition on-account without having to sell my spare rare collection.

On the other hand, this means I now have a reason to grind on my main account again, so a bit of a mixed blessing really.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calambar on September 24, 2013, 06:30:56 PM
The game is actually glitched. If you have  over ~120 cards in individual type almost all cards of this type disappear (yes, I went back to menu to save first). I bought over 120 pillars and that happened again (99, 100, 101, 111 pillars was ok, I checked it, over ~120 glitch happens).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ColorlessGreen on September 24, 2013, 06:46:22 PM
The game is actually glitched. If you have  over ~120 cards in individual type almost all cards of this type disappear (yes, I went back to menu to save first). I bought over 120 pillars and that happened again (99, 100, 101, 111 pillars was ok, I checked it, over ~120 glitch happens).

Just out of curiosity, is it a graphical glitch (i.e. the numbers don't show up properly) or do the cards actually disappear from your account?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Calambar on September 24, 2013, 06:53:59 PM
The game is actually glitched. If you have  over ~120 cards in individual type almost all cards of this type disappear (yes, I went back to menu to save first). I bought over 120 pillars and that happened again (99, 100, 101, 111 pillars was ok, I checked it, over ~120 glitch happens).

Just out of curiosity, is it a graphical glitch (i.e. the numbers don't show up properly) or do the cards actually disappear from your account?

They disappear completely (total number of cards is substracted as well). Omegareaper7 also checked it and confirmed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: omegareaper7 on September 24, 2013, 08:42:05 PM
I can confirm. I had bought over one or two hundred quantum pillars when I saw the card limit was removed, I am now below 4000 cards again, and I only have access to 5 quantum pillars.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: zanzarino on December 15, 2013, 01:19:27 AM
Updated version 1.325:

Fixed connection to pvp server
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: deuce22 on December 15, 2013, 01:24:05 AM
Updated version 1.325:

Fixed connection to pvp server

yay, early christmas :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: SpikeSpiegel on December 15, 2013, 01:57:10 AM

I'm so happy...

Thanks Zanz!!! Glad to see you back!
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: CrockettRocket on December 15, 2013, 02:05:44 AM
I just tried, and my connection to server failed, yet I can post this. nvm. I had to refresh.  :-[
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: bripod on December 15, 2013, 02:06:34 AM
I just tried, and my connection to server failed, yet I can post this.

Reload Elements if you haven't already...
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: mathman101 on December 15, 2013, 02:34:49 AM
Yeah thanks Zanz for the fix!  ;D

Happy Holidays to all!! :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: MegroN on December 15, 2013, 12:31:12 PM
Thanks Zanz
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Blacksmith on December 15, 2013, 05:04:19 PM
Well I guess I have to say thank you too.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: TribalTrouble on December 15, 2013, 06:51:33 PM
Thanks Zanz. Was it an easy fix?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: timetock on December 16, 2013, 07:18:31 PM
yay praise the lord.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: CuCN on December 16, 2013, 09:51:18 PM
I see 1.326 in the lower left. Is there something more specific than "improve the pvp matching" that was changed in this patch?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: antiaverage on June 11, 2014, 06:48:11 PM
thanks for fixing PvP again :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: dark ripper on June 11, 2014, 06:49:01 PM
What aa said! Hurray for PvP back! Thanks zanz:D
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: jarozaoz on June 11, 2014, 06:49:58 PM
(http://edge-img.datpiff.com/ma7ce231/Pharaoh_The_Producer_all_Hail_The_King_Vol_4-front-large.jpg)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: SpikeSpiegel on June 11, 2014, 06:51:36 PM

Thank you zanz, again.

Maybe next time a fast jump in chat?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Dm on June 11, 2014, 06:52:47 PM
Wtf?

Since when?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on June 11, 2014, 06:54:17 PM
Since like 20 min ago. He didn't bother to make a new post though, for whatever reason. He did edit the OP (although, I have no idea if he actually expect people to go look periodically or what ???)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: iancudorinmarian on June 11, 2014, 06:55:07 PM
Thank you :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: treebeard xiii on June 11, 2014, 07:06:42 PM
now guys pvp being back is all good but lets try not to break the servers again at least until after trials :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: CrockettRocket on June 15, 2014, 09:08:42 PM
how did -we- break it to begin with? I wanna know so I can try to prevent it if possible in the future.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Fippe94 on June 15, 2014, 09:53:58 PM
He was joking, hence the tounge smiley at the end of the post.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Jacker77 on July 01, 2014, 12:55:57 PM
At last my source of electrum restored
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: silentFH on January 03, 2016, 04:15:05 AM
I'm still having trouble connecting to server, have I missed an update or something I need to do to get back to playing the game?
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: Treldon on January 03, 2016, 08:37:34 AM
I'm still having trouble connecting to server, have I missed an update or something I need to do to get back to playing the game?

There were no updates in the last 2 years, so unlikely (especially since you don't download any software).
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: silentFH on January 04, 2016, 06:25:59 AM
Damn, thats a problem then because I can't get the game to open for me at all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on January 04, 2016, 06:32:30 AM
Is your Flash player up to date?
blarg: vrt,Xenocidius