Post by: zanzarino on April 25, 2012, 02:57:27 am
New cards:
Psion
Balance:
The Oracle always grants the chosen card
Half-Blood HP reduced to 150
Firefly queen cost reduced to 6
Pharaoh stats increased to 4/9
Shard of focus HP reduced to 1
Shard of focus turns into a black hole when HP>45
Upgraded shard of focus cost increased to 6
Upgraded shard of focus generates upgraded black holes
Upgraded turquoise nymph stats increased to 8/5
Light Nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgraded
Green Nymph cost reduced to 8
Nymph Queen stats increased to 5/6 - 6/7 if upgraded
Auburn Nymph stats increased to 4/8 - 5/9 if upgraded
Grey Nymph stats increased to 7/8 - 8/9 if upgraded
Blue Nymph stats increased to 6/5 - 7/6 if upgraded
Bug fix:
- Score and electrum gained are correctly calculated for an arena win (5 coins/score points were missing)
- Fractal and nightmare do not cause random bugs anymore (hopefully) when used by AI on an evading creature
- The opponent dissipation shield does not block weapons anymore if sanctuary is also in play
- Shard of focus turns into a black hole only when the accretion skill is activated
- it is not possible to discard more than 1 card per turn
- cancelling a creature ability should not cause desynch anymore
UI:
New devourer, lycanthrope, pufferfish, colossal dragon, sapphire charger and firefly queen art (by vrt and pepokish)
Post by: furballdn on April 25, 2012, 02:58:33 am
Post by: Absol on April 25, 2012, 03:00:05 am
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on April 25, 2012, 03:01:34 am
Also hurray for new art! Vrt es mastah arteest.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 25, 2012, 03:03:03 am
Post by: Rutarete on April 25, 2012, 03:06:21 am
Post by: ColorlessGreen on April 25, 2012, 03:08:56 am
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 03:09:38 am
<3
Post by: Newbiecake on April 25, 2012, 03:09:47 am
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on April 25, 2012, 03:10:06 am
A step towards making AI4 more grindable, I like. (:
Also hurray for new art! Vrt es mastah arteest.
Looks like a step in the right direction for the HBs, and great art from vrt as always. :) Looking forward to what new things this patch will bring.
Basically ninja'd. :P
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 25, 2012, 03:11:57 am
I also have a Massive Dragon (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/Elementsfinished/massive_dragon_256.png) and Sapphire Charger (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/Elementsfinished/charger.png) laying around. Also, as a "thank you" for the kind people that donated to help support us, pepokish is letting me publish her take on Pufferfish (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/pufferfish_256.png) and Firefly Queen (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/ffq_256.png)!O.o
<3
That's... ten times more amazing than the werewolf. I can't wait to see how these all look ingame. :D
Out of curiousity - will we be seeing any further changes to HBs in this patch? Making them more grindable is good, sure, but it'd be interesting if there were other possible features such as wielding marks with abilities, IMHO.
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on April 25, 2012, 03:13:54 am
I also have a Massive Dragon (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/Elementsfinished/massive_dragon_256.png) and Sapphire Charger (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/Elementsfinished/charger.png) laying around. Also, as a "thank you" for the kind people that donated to help support us, pepokish is letting me publish her take on Pufferfish (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/pufferfish_256.png) and Firefly Queen (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/ffq_256.png)!
<3
Love the Massive Dragon! Sapphire Charger could be a little more "glowy" in my opinion, but as always, the art looks great.
Post by: Xenocidius on April 25, 2012, 03:16:34 am
I'm glad that the development of the game seems to be speeding up. This ought to draw in more players and satiate old ones.
Post by: Rutarete on April 25, 2012, 03:22:12 am
Post by: furballdn on April 25, 2012, 03:25:13 am
I like the werewolf art, but what will happen to the old art? Will this turn out like Oty?Or maybe it turns into the new art after transforming? (That'd be hard to implement but it sounds cool)
Post by: Skotadi Phobos on April 25, 2012, 03:27:40 am
Post by: Rutarete on April 25, 2012, 03:27:44 am
Genius idea! I'm for it :)I like the werewolf art, but what will happen to the old art? Will this turn out like Oty?Or maybe it turns into the new art after transforming? (That'd be hard to implement but it sounds cool)
Also from my perspective, it doesn't seem that difficult. ... But, my experience is also very limited at the moment so maybe not.
Post by: willng3 on April 25, 2012, 03:33:40 am
That artwork posted is all really amazing, but that FFQ in particular...just wow. That's just freaking incredible. Easily over 10000x better than the one we have currently.
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 03:35:59 am
Genius idea! I'm for it :)I like the werewolf art, but what will happen to the old art? Will this turn out like Oty?Or maybe it turns into the new art after transforming? (That'd be hard to implement but it sounds cool)
Also from my perspective, it doesn't seem that difficult. ... But, my experience is also very limited at the moment so maybe not.
I'd prefer zanz spending time coding up new card mechanics and Trial over him doing a purely visual gig for only one particular card that doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever.
Post by: majofa on April 25, 2012, 03:36:44 am
The ability to turn off Spectate.. it will help with preparing for War :D
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36399.0.html
Post by: Arum on April 25, 2012, 03:42:51 am
Bug fixes and art changes. Good stuff, lucking forward to the rest of the patch.Easily agreed.
That artwork posted is all really amazing, but that FFQ in particular...just wow. That's just freaking incredible. Easily over 10000x better than the one we have currently.
There's just something . . a way that vrt portrays gravity creatures . . . that makes them seem like they're on a planet that is so big, everyone is lonely.
It brings me sadness. I feel my heart break just for those pitiful creatures that are strong on their own.
In this desolate world of mine
where gravity bound this place together
I seek my companionship
in this big world of mine.
The horizons stretch so far away
Large this planet is
and as I lumber across the surface
the distant sun dips below sight.
Featureless the plains are
for this planet's gravity
stretches the rocks flat
rounding out this cosmic sphere
In this large world of mine
I seek to find love and friendship
but the horizons stretch seemingly forever
as I lumber across the flat plains. . .
Post by: zanzarino on April 25, 2012, 03:54:45 am
Post by: Naesala on April 25, 2012, 03:56:48 am
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 03:57:32 am
The new Firefly Queen art is so epic that it granted Firefly queen a buff (updated OP).
Worth it. :D
Post by: pikachufan2164 on April 25, 2012, 03:58:58 am
Post by: Absol on April 25, 2012, 04:01:51 am
The new Firefly Queen art is so epic that it granted Firefly queen a buff (updated OP).I would approve this if i could, but unfortunately i can't do that.
Awesome. Next, balancing for SoFo and we'll be happy players.
Post by: Rutarete on April 25, 2012, 04:03:46 am
Post by: burpcow on April 25, 2012, 04:07:29 am
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 04:08:05 am
Just curious, why the Oracle change?
To get rid of the minimum of 3 newbies popping into chat every day to ask where the card went that they got from the Oracle, possibly.
Post by: zanzarino on April 25, 2012, 04:11:42 am
Just curious, why the Oracle change?
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
Not getting a card from the Oracle can be frustrating and it does not effect much the balance of the game, since it is just once per day.
Also, sometimes I tend to be conservative when adding new features, since having to decrease rewards later is usually quite traumatic (more frustration). It was time to increase a bit oracle and arena deck rewards.
I also have in my head a second approach to that "hated card" idea in the trial but I am still working on it.
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 04:13:04 am
Post by: Hyroen on April 25, 2012, 04:17:03 am
In particular fascination with the FFQ update. In love. Thank you.
Post by: furballdn on April 25, 2012, 04:17:53 am
FFQ buff? Nice.
Pharaoh buff? Nice.
New art? Epic.
Post by: Wizy on April 25, 2012, 04:18:41 am
+1 for the Psion request.
Post by: RRQJ on April 25, 2012, 04:32:19 am
Nice change, though. It was indeed rather trollish of the oracle to show the card but not give it to you.
Post by: Annele on April 25, 2012, 04:40:41 am
Maybe you could make it like otyugh, changes as it upgrades.
Post by: zanzarino on April 25, 2012, 04:42:45 am
A new patch so soon? Awesome! Perhaps we could have Psion now? :)
Psion is in the trainer
Post by: EvaRia on April 25, 2012, 04:44:57 am
It's great to see some activity from you, it's making the game a lot nicer to keep up with :)
I'll +1 the Psion request.
(Ninja: Granted \o/)
Actually, I'd maybe want to make another request that, even if you don't agree with, I'd like a definitive answer on?
Is it possible to shift some more focus on the community designed cards?
I know it is your game and everything, the majority of the cards in the Armory are very well received and balanced fairly well.
Could you take down that wall between developer and community, and try and make more of them a reality?
We DO go through an extensive voting system to determine what the best of the best is.
It's alright if you're not willing, but I'd like to hear at least a no. ;)
Post by: Xenocidius on April 25, 2012, 04:45:15 am
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 04:50:49 am
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 05:05:25 am
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/psionbug.png)
Post by: AP579 on April 25, 2012, 05:28:59 am
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 05:30:40 am
Post by: nilsieboy on April 25, 2012, 05:33:46 am
Post by: Dart on April 25, 2012, 05:35:43 am
Post by: Hyroen on April 25, 2012, 06:02:36 am
EDIT: And it doesn't have the upgraded border.
Night!
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 06:03:18 am
Just wanted to point out before I go, upgraded Psion has white name font. Upgraded cards normally have black name font.
Night!
Hence my post. >.>
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 25, 2012, 07:06:20 am
As always when there's a new patch, I'll link here a few wishes and ideas... Just in case. ;)
Here are some high quality cards chosen by the Idea Factory crew (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34355.0.html).
In particular I'll note:
Rejuvenation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34369.0.html), one of the best card ideas ever as well as the fastest to reach Armory. A Life card that rounds off the element while being very thematic. Has been discussed for a long time and most people agree it would be a very cool addition. It has good art too!
Quantum Locket (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25665.0.html), maybe the best idea up until now on how to round off trio decks' quanta generation - something that would definitely improve the variety of decks in the game.
Touch of Midas (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21604.0.html), one of the best PC card concepts I've seen floating around. Still needs a slight cost increase after Deflag nerf, but it is very thematic and I just love the idea. Plus, we need more PC/soft PC cards.
Collapse (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30993.msg393596.html#msg393596), simple yet effective design that gives us yet another bit of PC.
Some nerf threads that I personally like, although all changes are rather minor: Soul Catcher with a little healing (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38308.0.html), Plate Armor with +1 attack (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34377.0.html), Immortal with a little bit of usefulness (cost / attack ratio is odd) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29634.0.html), small buff for poor Condor (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23322.0.html), small buff for Trident (perhaps more damage) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32307.0.html).
The only one I feel needs to be set apar is the poor Graviton Mercenary (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21229.0.html), which I think needs a rather large buff unupped. My favorite suggestion is to make it a 6/6 at 5 :gravity cost, but there's a good number of possible solutions.
Lastly, I think a nerf to Shard of Focus is needed (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38644.0.html).
EDIT: also, looked at the new art and... whoa. :o I'm not really into the artistic part of the game but those images are just AMAZING. :o All my love to the artists.
Post by: Atico on April 25, 2012, 07:43:51 am
When we change some arts maybe Wyrm's art needs also more love? White background here didn't look so good ;)
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 08:00:13 am
Post by: pulli23 on April 25, 2012, 09:25:17 am
Just curious, why the Oracle change?
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
Not getting a card from the Oracle can be frustrating and it does not effect much the balance of the game, since it is just once per day.
Also, sometimes I tend to be conservative when adding new features, since having to decrease rewards later is usually quite traumatic (more frustration). It was time to increase a bit oracle and arena deck rewards.
I also have in my head a second approach to that "hated card" idea in the trial but I am still working on it.
Can't you do a bit more changes to the oracle - I'd sure like to get some nymph love from the oracle. - Wouldn't it be best that the change to get a nymph would slowly grow for each time you open the oracle and not get a nymph. (And once you get a nymph it resets). - Probably lower the chance to get a nymph too so the average time to get a nymph stays the same.
This would mean you wouldn't have such "bad luck" streaks and oracle might seem more fair in that way...
Post by: teffy on April 25, 2012, 09:37:19 am
For Pufferfish/Toadfisch it would make sense because of a different name. FFQ maybe because of different quanta generation.
The new Sapphire Charger doesn´t look enough like sapphire.
HP change of 150 is needed, I also supported the FFQ buff.
Post by: RavingRabbid on April 25, 2012, 09:49:27 am
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 25, 2012, 09:59:18 am
After two years time for a new Water card? Maybe the much wanted PC?
There's (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36543) quite (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33726) a few (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35160) cool (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22653.0.html) Water (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30479) card ideas (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19717) in the CIA boards (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9505) if you wish (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13290.0.html), too. Including PC (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21004.0.html) (sort of).
Post by: Cunning_Wish on April 25, 2012, 10:37:09 am
Post by: deuce22 on April 25, 2012, 10:39:50 am
Post by: Poker Alho on April 25, 2012, 10:46:50 am
oh please, oh please, oh please add the patch before the start of war!
NO! no new card for :aether to play with on war
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx5lqyG19e1qaa7gwo1_400.jpg)
meh i also prefered my take on Half Bloods, to have win streaks for more electrum and upped cards but this will work too :P
Post by: jippy99 on April 25, 2012, 10:57:47 am
Post by: McSod on April 25, 2012, 11:02:58 am
Like Psion. LOVE my pharaoh buff.
I do believe the masses are pleased.
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on April 25, 2012, 11:05:11 am
Happy about all the changes (well, merely neutral about Oracle change, but eh...) and hope there are many more to come! (since everyone is suggesting changes, confirmed bugs section (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,520.0.html)!! :P) Oh, and some people are running out of card space again xD
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 11:06:19 am
oh please, oh please, oh please add the patch before the start of war!Wouldn't matter. Can't touch vaults, unless each general wants me to see their vault ;)
Post by: Poker Alho on April 25, 2012, 11:06:35 am
Aether really deserved a new card, I hope all elements will soon have an equal amount of cards (rather than just giving elements cards as good ideas come by ;))
Happy about all the changes (well, merely neutral about Oracle change, but eh...) and hope there are many more to come! (since everyone is suggesting changes, confirmed bugs section (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,520.0.html)!! :P) Oh, and some people are running out of card space again xD
card space? how many cards can a player have really?
Post by: deuce22 on April 25, 2012, 11:16:55 am
oh please, oh please, oh please add the patch before the start of war!Wouldn't matter. Can't touch vaults, unless each general wants me to see their vault ;)
Not like it's going to matter!
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 11:22:34 am
As many as he wants. Stops saving at 3999, though.Aether really deserved a new card, I hope all elements will soon have an equal amount of cards (rather than just giving elements cards as good ideas come by ;))
Happy about all the changes (well, merely neutral about Oracle change, but eh...) and hope there are many more to come! (since everyone is suggesting changes, confirmed bugs section (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,520.0.html)!! :P) Oh, and some people are running out of card space again xD
card space? how many cards can a player have really?
Post by: Poker Alho on April 25, 2012, 11:25:14 am
As many as he wants. Stops saving at 3999, though.Aether really deserved a new card, I hope all elements will soon have an equal amount of cards (rather than just giving elements cards as good ideas come by ;))
Happy about all the changes (well, merely neutral about Oracle change, but eh...) and hope there are many more to come! (since everyone is suggesting changes, confirmed bugs section (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,520.0.html)!! :P) Oh, and some people are running out of card space again xD
card space? how many cards can a player have really?
In trainer with all the cards the card number goes to 3539 cards so there is enough space for everyone to have 6 copies of every card unupped and upped and 24 copies of each pillar/tower
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 11:27:06 am
Post by: Poker Alho on April 25, 2012, 11:28:11 am
You forgot marks.
You forgot relics (and so did i lol)
who has that many marks anyway :O
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 11:30:41 am
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on April 25, 2012, 11:35:11 am
Post by: Poker Alho on April 25, 2012, 11:38:02 am
All cards doesn't give all cards yet, in case you did include that, my main problem is the buffer for cards to sell for now. I now regularly need to sell unupgraded cards simply because the game won't save otherwise.
i included psion if thats what you were thinking
i still dont have that problem as i dont still dont have that many cards but because i do a little bit of OCD i usually go sell some extra unupped cards just to always an amount of 6 xD
Post by: Fireleaf on April 25, 2012, 11:40:52 am
Post by: AnnaMall on April 25, 2012, 11:45:15 am
Chat is full of life
Zanz designs back to back patches
New vrt quality pops in game
War is coming...
What more to ask?
Post by: moomoose on April 25, 2012, 01:14:47 pm
Post by: killsdazombies on April 25, 2012, 02:00:45 pm
Post by: YoungSot on April 25, 2012, 02:21:30 pm
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
^ Those are exactly the kind of words I love to hear from a developer!
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 02:25:50 pm
Post by: mesaprotector on April 25, 2012, 02:30:02 pm
The new art is nice, but it's so different from what already exists.
Liking this update, especially the beautiful art (thx vrt and pepo)!I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
^ Those are exactly the kind of words I love to hear from a developer!
Quoted for truth :D
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 25, 2012, 02:30:50 pm
But I will miss the Firefly Queen art. I had grown rather... attached to it.
Nonetheless, I'm liking the updates a lot.
Post by: TheManuz on April 25, 2012, 02:37:37 pm
Also, Zanz, can you tell us what are the next elements that will receive new cards? Do you have a specific order or do you choose from time to time what cards to add?
Also, it will give a great boost to community if you could pick cards from Armory at regular intervals, I don't know, maybe you could give us some kind of guidelines on how you choose cards, maybe fixed dates or something like that, and other details about card creation.
Post by: Jenkar on April 25, 2012, 02:48:35 pm
Also, it will give a great boost to community if you could pick cards from Armory at regular intervalsDisagreed. Card voting is, imo, a flawed process, and hence best cards often don't go to armory, sometimes not even to forge.
, I don't know, maybe you could give us some kind of guidelines on how you choose cards, maybe fixed dates or something like that, and other details about card creation.Bad again, in my opinion. This would severely limit imagination by putting ''rules'' on what a card should be.
Post by: moomoose on April 25, 2012, 03:24:34 pm
on the few occasions that zanz has requested input (FGs and most recently shards), it has led to user ideas being incorporated-
so personally i would love more direction for card designers to focus on in the future, should zanz have have an issue arise where he would like to see the game expand in a particular direction. as is, for the most part the two considerations when designing cards are "is this cool?" and "is this what the game needs?", productivity may be increased when the latter is removed and the focus on the former. just my 2 :electrum , because as is, today im so happy i could pee myself haha.
Post by: Jocko on April 25, 2012, 04:28:49 pm
Btw, Psion's text mispelled spell. (hah!)
And Colossal dragon still says "Art by fotosynthesis"
Post by: Naesala on April 25, 2012, 04:43:42 pm
Post by: Pothos2004 on April 25, 2012, 04:45:57 pm
Post by: Belligerence on April 25, 2012, 05:28:13 pm
Apparently my reading skills are rather lackluster, it was brought up several times, but yet I missed it on my first read through of the comments... sorry!
Post by: Dandy on April 25, 2012, 07:11:16 pm
Can't wait for this to go live!
Post by: TheManuz on April 25, 2012, 07:30:08 pm
Ok, i can agree on this point. My point was not on the Armory, but on taking cards from the section "Cards Idea and Art".Also, it will give a great boost to community if you could pick cards from Armory at regular intervalsDisagreed. Card voting is, imo, a flawed process, and hence best cards often don't go to armory, sometimes not even to forge.
I'm not agreeing on this. I've had some of my best ideas (in my opinion, of course) while partecipating at the Card Design War Competition, and we've had to follow strict rules., I don't know, maybe you could give us some kind of guidelines on how you choose cards, maybe fixed dates or something like that, and other details about card creation.Bad again, in my opinion. This would severely limit imagination by putting ''rules'' on what a card should be.
Anyway, i don't want to put limitations, i'd only like to listen from Zanz that (i'm saying this only for example) every 4 months he would choose a card from the community, and maybe some hints on what he is needing, just to make something useful.
[cut]I totally agree with your thought. Also, congratulations Moo! I can totally understand why you're happy! ;)
on the few occasions that zanz has requested input (FGs and most recently shards), it has led to user ideas being incorporated-
so personally i would love more direction for card designers to focus on in the future, should zanz have have an issue arise where he would like to see the game expand in a particular direction. as is, for the most part the two considerations when designing cards are "is this cool?" and "is this what the game needs?", productivity may be increased when the latter is removed and the focus on the former. just my 2 :electrum , because as is, today im so happy i could pee myself haha.
Post by: Higurashi on April 25, 2012, 08:24:19 pm
Looking over some posts here, I kind of agree with a few art things. 1) a more sapphire-y charger would be nice 2) Pufferfish and FFQ original art will be missed, and I like the idea of the unupped/upped split. Im kind of leaning towards the -old- art being the elite queen, it just seems more "firey" to me, while the new art is very "light". Nothing against vrt's wonderful wonderful art, but thats kind of how I feel.pepo's art.
I sort of agree. The old FFQ art is actually pretty cool, and it -is- somewhat "firey".
Dragon looks more fierce, but it really lacks colour. Charger could use more of that too, yeah. Either way all improvements in this patch so far :>
Post by: teffy on April 25, 2012, 08:51:13 pm
FFQ is also Spore, but who ever noticed that ?. It´s so good...
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 08:52:08 pm
The new one would be the only one not inspired by "Spore".
For now.
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 25, 2012, 08:53:14 pm
The new one would be the only one not inspired by "Spore".
For now.
<3
Post by: BluePriest on April 25, 2012, 09:18:05 pm
Post by: Captain Scibra on April 25, 2012, 09:40:11 pm
Post by: XVoidWalkerX on April 26, 2012, 01:23:25 am
1.) I really think Psion has some potential to be a very good card. It has the spell damage, so it can bypass the shields. It also isn't that costly. I think this could make mono-aether a tad easier to beat.
2.) I LOVE the fact that HB has been cut to 150. Like a few others, who's names I've already forgotten, I agree it will make them more grindable...typed reliable for some reason...
3.) Um...Firefly Queen to 6 :air will be a small help to those who use the FFQ decks. The Pharaoh will be harder to kill, but other than that those two cards are still pretty useful. (is probably forgeting something)
4.) Ok. The Oracle giving cards...oh god...I wish this was put into effect a week ago. I got 8 rares in a row from the Oracle, but never GOT them... T.T
5.) I think the art will be cool. The coolest art I've seen so far is the upped Steam Machine, and the Ivory Dragon in my opinion. There's going to be some disagreements, but I don't really care ^^
Post by: Naesala on April 26, 2012, 02:04:21 am
Derp. Sorry about that ^_^'Looking over some posts here, I kind of agree with a few art things. 1) a more sapphire-y charger would be nice 2) Pufferfish and FFQ original art will be missed, and I like the idea of the unupped/upped split. Im kind of leaning towards the -old- art being the elite queen, it just seems more "firey" to me, while the new art is very "light". Nothing against vrt's wonderful wonderful art, but thats kind of how I feel.pepo's art.
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on April 26, 2012, 02:31:58 am
Post by: Dandy on April 26, 2012, 02:56:57 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 26, 2012, 03:34:43 am
Let's make the Oracle thing retroactive. You know, get every card you've ever seen in the Oracle and didn't get. That wouldn't be too hard to do, right? :DWhere would that be found? They don't store it.
Post by: Rutarete on April 26, 2012, 03:38:13 am
It's a joke.Let's make the Oracle thing retroactive. You know, get every card you've ever seen in the Oracle and didn't get. That wouldn't be too hard to do, right? :DWhere would that be found? They don't store it.
Post by: SnoWeb on April 26, 2012, 06:21:22 am
I also have a Massive Dragon (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/Elementsfinished/massive_dragon_256.png) and Sapphire Charger (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/Elementsfinished/charger.png) laying around. Also, as a "thank you" for the kind people that donated to help support us, pepokish is letting me publish her take on Pufferfish (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/pufferfish_256.png) and Firefly Queen (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/ffq_256.png)!These are really cool art, man. Bedankt en gefeliciteerd!
Also, I'll add on what I have read in this very topic. Please Zanz, choose some more cards from the community.
Post by: Joppe on April 26, 2012, 04:02:29 pm
Post by: Jenkar on April 26, 2012, 04:09:59 pm
Post by: YoungSot on April 26, 2012, 04:21:29 pm
Post by: Higurashi on April 26, 2012, 04:28:13 pm
Post by: Joppe on April 26, 2012, 04:38:44 pm
I'll remind people to keep criticism constructive. I won't tolerate mocking of a volunteer artist who has done a lot for the community.
- Care to explain what was so terrible with Fotosynthesis' version of that dragon that it needed to be replaced?
If you bow into one direction, you always show your butt to the other. That's how life goes unfortunately.
Post by: omegareaper7 on April 26, 2012, 05:15:09 pm
Nothing persay. But it was a rather dull picture. The new one isn't amazing either, could do with a bit more color like others have said, but it definitely looks more dragon like.I'll remind people to keep criticism constructive. I won't tolerate mocking of a volunteer artist who has done a lot for the community.
- Care to explain what was so terrible with Fotosynthesis' version of that dragon that it needed to be replaced?
If you bow into one direction, you always show your butt to the other. That's how life goes unfortunately.
Post by: Chapuz on April 26, 2012, 05:45:14 pm
Post by: pervepic on April 26, 2012, 05:53:01 pm
I would like to have the old images kept doe the unupped/upped cards and the new ones for the upped/unupped ones.
That would be cool, but a bit confusing maybe. But I'll certainly miss the old Pufferfish :'(
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on April 26, 2012, 06:02:35 pm
I would like to have the old images kept doe the unupped/upped cards and the new ones for the upped/unupped ones.
That would be cool, but a bit confusing maybe. But I'll certainly miss the old Pufferfish :'(
lol. I think the pufferfish looks better now. and it doesn't have feet...
Post by: vrt on April 26, 2012, 07:51:46 pm
Sorry to hear card art got changed. There's a saying "don't fix what isn't broken", and memorable art is really one of those things. Colossal dragon was the coolest-looking dragon in the game before is got changed into what looks like stone worm or gargoyle. When Akebono played two Massive Dragons on the table, it was always a kind of "Oh sh*t" moment. What is it going to be now? Here some depressed sand worms with head held low crawled out of their caves?
There's also a saying that goes "There's no arguing about tastes and colors". While I'm sorry you don't like the new art, I think it's a bit harsh the way you put it.
Post by: Zso_Zso on April 26, 2012, 08:58:28 pm
For the art changes, I would agree with others to keep the old FFQ for the upgraded version and use the new art for un-upped, the light / fire thematic would fit nicely. In general, I like those cards that have a different art for unupped and upped version, so when we get new art, it would be cool to keep the old for one version of the card (unless the new art comes in 2 versions specifically for unupped and upped format).
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 26, 2012, 09:12:49 pm
I've seen other CCGs where multiple artworks for the same card were implemented. They did it either by having separate versions of the card (like how we have normal chimera and foil chimera from donations) or have it pick a piece of artwork at random when the card is drawn. (i.e. old otyugh, new otyugh) Whether we want to go this route, I don't know, but I figured I'd throw it out there.
Post by: zanzarino on April 26, 2012, 10:55:21 pm
... it would be cool to keep the old for one version of the card ...
Yes, it would.
However, the current game client file is about 4Mb in size, if I double the amount of art, it would end up being about 7Mb.
Or... I could download the art from the server as the game needs it... but I do not personally like to see a "loading" thingy every time I click on something.
Bottom line is: the old art has to be worth the time you wait for the game to download it.
It is also impossible to please everyone when it comes down to art: well, some things are objectively ugly, but it is often impossible to classify art as simply "good' or "bad". I, for instance, hate this thing here:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Dora_Maar_Au_Chat.jpg)
But, it turns out that Picasso created it, and someone spent US$100 million to buy it and it is one of the most expensive paintings in the world. Me? If I did not know who painted it I would give you $5 to remove it from my living room.
For Elements, in general, I think that custom art is more valuable than spore screenshots.
Post by: majofa on April 26, 2012, 10:59:28 pm
Maybe sooner than the patch?
The ability to turn off Spectate.. it will help with War :D
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36399.0.html
*shameless repost*
Post by: Shrink on April 26, 2012, 11:01:18 pm
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37443.0.html
Not really related, but would still be wonderful!
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 26, 2012, 11:06:24 pm
Hope my suggestion is considered and many thanks. ^_^
Post by: mrtwigie01 on April 26, 2012, 11:07:07 pm
Post by: Kuroaitou on April 26, 2012, 11:30:15 pm
...now here's to seeing what other new cards might be implemented besides Psion... >.>
Post by: Wolfunit on April 27, 2012, 12:37:55 am
Post by: Captain Scibra on April 27, 2012, 12:44:53 am
Where's the artwork for lycanthrope?
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38357.0.html And others. Enjoy.
Edit: fixed link, sorry.
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 27, 2012, 12:49:11 am
Where's the artwork for lycanthrope?
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38357.0.html And others. Enjoy.
One "http://" too many.
Post by: Winter Is Coming on April 27, 2012, 03:08:53 am
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
Regarding this: Would this be an appropriate place to make a suggestion about changing an aspect of the gameplay? Or is there another, separate thread for things like that?
Post by: Helston on April 27, 2012, 03:21:12 am
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
Regarding this: Would this be an appropriate place to make a suggestion about changing an aspect of the gameplay? Or is there another, separate thread for things like that?
There's an entire board for that. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html)
Post by: Silver on April 27, 2012, 06:28:17 am
Post by: Annele on April 27, 2012, 06:35:51 am
Pufferfish art is really nice but it doesn't look like a pufferfish anymore. New water card please!
Pufferfish are only 'puffed' when the sense attackers. Usually they look somewhat like the new art.
Post by: Tiko on April 27, 2012, 06:42:24 am
... it would be cool to keep the old for one version of the card ...[...]
It is also impossible to please everyone when it comes down to art: well, some things are objectively ugly, but it is often impossible to classify art as simply "good' or "bad". I, for instance, hate this thing here:(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Dora_Maar_Au_Chat.jpg)But, it turns out that Picasso created it, and someone spent US$100 million to buy it and it is one of the most expensive paintings in the world. Me? If I did not know who painted it I would give you $5 to remove it from my living room.
For Elements, in general, I think that custom art is more valuable than spore screenshots.
So true.
Also, if anyone wants to have the old art that badly, most of them are uploaded here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33531.0.html.
Download them, make them your desktop wallpaper or whatever. Just stop the hatestorm/whining already.
Post by: vrt on April 27, 2012, 06:44:59 am
Post by: TheManuz on April 27, 2012, 08:07:24 am
I'd like to recommend the :air Fenghuang (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35710.0.html) :air card as a potential candidate for ETG consideration, as it was the first card to be officially designed and balanced by the Elements community as a whole and it provides potential game expansion with the unique abilities Ren and Swift.Agreeing with this!
Hope my suggestion is considered and many thanks. ^_^
Back on topic, i think the old art seems better to some people because of a "nostalgia" effect.
And humans tends to refuse changes, at first.
I think that the new art gives depth to those creatures.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 09:03:30 am
Quote
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
If you really want to eliminate sources of frustration, then I've a suggestion for a modification to the Arena. When you click on a league, or maybe even just before you click on Gold or Platinum, you get to see the entire deck your opponent has put up. You can then decide not to participate in the match without penalty, or with only a minor penalty - less than the 20 :electrum you'd lose by participating in the match and losing.
That way people who post the same old same old Ghostmares and Oraclebows would find that doing so would just mean that their decks don't get played and so earn them nothing. This would mean that there'd be more variety in the Arena, and therefore less frustration and tedium.
Post by: Jenkar on April 27, 2012, 09:15:10 am
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 09:54:28 am
Nope. That would just make getting wins near impossible for arena decks.
Well, firstly, that implies that everybody would necessarily auto-quit if they weren't 99% sure they were going to win a match. I think that a) matches aren't necessarily that easy to determine against a good deck and b) people are prepared to have a challenging match (and would, often, prefer one to either a squash or a drubbing).
And, secondly, wouldn't an Arena win being hard to achieve make an Arena win mean something? Wouldn't you say that putting up a deck which ignores the Oracle card but which has a long-proven track record of doing very well in the Arena and then just leaving it there for 3 weeks makes getting wins so easy as to be meaningless?
Besides which, the potential gains for the person putting the Arena deck up are small compared to the potential gains for the person playing against the Arena deck. I think the bias should be towards making it fun for the person playing against the decks, rather than towards making it easy for the person putting the deck up.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 09:58:44 am
Post by: iancudorinmarian on April 27, 2012, 10:00:59 am
Post by: Cheesy111 on April 27, 2012, 10:03:00 am
Nope. That would just make getting wins near impossible for arena decks.
Well, firstly, that implies that everybody would necessarily auto-quit if they weren't 99% sure they were going to win a match. I think that a) matches aren't necessarily that easy to determine against a good deck and b) people are prepared to have a challenging match (and would, often, prefer one to either a squash or a drubbing).
And, secondly, wouldn't an Arena win being hard to achieve make an Arena win mean something? Wouldn't you say that putting up a deck which ignores the Oracle card but which has a long-proven track record of doing very well in the Arena and then just leaving it there for 3 weeks makes getting wins so easy as to be meaningless?
Besides which, the potential gains for the person putting the Arena deck up are small compared to the potential gains for the person playing against the Arena deck. I think the bias should be towards making it fun for the person playing against the decks, rather than towards making it easy for the person putting the deck up.
Actually, you'd be helping the people who made oraclebows (comparatively). Consider:
Person A is playing Gold League Arena.
Person B puts up a monotime ghost/dragon rush. (Card: Ghost of the Past)
Person C puts up a ghostmare. (Card: Ghost of the Past)
Person D puts up an oraclebow. (Card: Nova)
Person E puts up an oraclebow. (Card: Skeleton)
Person A is more likely to skip players B, C, and D. This gives no advantage to players who put up original decks when they have the possibility to put up unoriginal decks(Person B). In the current system these players would generally be given thumbs-up, in the new system they would not get any plays. Putting up an oraclebow with an 'easy' card like Skeleton, however, is rewarded with more plays than an almost exactly the same oraclebow put up with a generally powerful card such as nova.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 10:46:49 am
Actually, you'd be helping the people who made oraclebows (comparatively). Consider:
Person A is playing Gold League Arena.
Person B puts up a monotime ghost/dragon rush. (Card: Ghost of the Past)
Person C puts up a ghostmare. (Card: Ghost of the Past)
Person D puts up an oraclebow. (Card: Nova)
Person E puts up an oraclebow. (Card: Skeleton)
Person A is more likely to skip players B, C, and D.
I'd play B and none of the others. I'm not sure why you think people would skip B and play E.
Quote
Putting up an oraclebow with an 'easy' card like Skeleton, however, is rewarded with more plays than an almost exactly the same oraclebow put up with a generally powerful card such as nova.
Why would it be rewarded? Why would people be more likely to play what they can see is an Oraclebow if that bow has a skeleton?
Almost all Oraclebows are powered by Supernovae. Why would having one as the Oracle card make people less likely to play the hand? Why would people forget they find Oraclebows boring if the Oracle card is a skeleton?
Post by: Alchemist on April 27, 2012, 11:00:43 am
Post by: Jenkar on April 27, 2012, 12:06:00 pm
You are wrong on both, in my opinion. It's pretty viable to make decks that have a 95%+ win rate vs another deck type, and people tend to be primitive (reason why thumbs up no work : people thumbs down because they lose 90% of the time)Nope. That would just make getting wins near impossible for arena decks.
Well, firstly, that implies that everybody would necessarily auto-quit if they weren't 99% sure they were going to win a match. I think that a) matches aren't necessarily that easy to determine against a good deck and b) people are prepared to have a challenging match (and would, often, prefer one to either a squash or a drubbing).
And, secondly, wouldn't an Arena win being hard to achieve make an Arena win mean something? Wouldn't you say that putting up a deck which ignores the Oracle card but which has a long-proven track record of doing very well in the Arena and then just leaving it there for 3 weeks makes getting wins so easy as to be meaningless?They already do. The fact is, as it is now, you can choose to use an unimaginative deck, MAYBE get to rank 1, and win some money and that's it. However, you can also try to use an imaginative but efficient deck, maybe reach rank 1, and win some money and have people say : nice arena deck in chat.
Besides which, the potential gains for the person putting the Arena deck up are small compared to the potential gains for the person playing against the Arena deck. I think the bias should be towards making it fun for the person playing against the decks, rather than towards making it easy for the person putting the deck up.Hum. So basicly, increase the rewards for those with large rewards already (player), while diminishing them for those with small ones already (people submitting decks)? Something is wrong with that.
In my opinion, the arena has a good risk/reward ratio. Say you win 50% vs plat, you get tons of money + a bit more than 1 rare every 4 games. Risk : frustation. Imo, good enough.
Post by: Absol on April 27, 2012, 12:21:55 pm
If you thumbs down, you don't lose anything. So why thumbs up? Basically, the thumbs up button is no different than donation button. Except it didn't cost you anything. It also didn't give you anything either.
The simplest fix for this dilemma is to give some sort of reward for thumbing up. Like mentioned somewhere, a simple 5 second delay before thumbs down button becomes available is fair enough. This way, if you don't want to give extra electrum, you will have to wait.
But it opens up another problem if people thumbing up all decks. But hey, constant thumbs up is better than constant thumbs down.
Or not.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 12:53:07 pm
You are wrong on both, in my opinion. It's pretty viable to make decks that have a 95%+ win rate vs another deck type, and people tend to be primitive (reason why thumbs up no work : people thumbs down because they lose 90% of the time)
So, in your opinion, people playing the Arena would make a deck which they know beats just one specific kind of deck and then constantly skip matches until they encounter that particular type of deck?
If diversity and innovation were encouraged in Arena, then you'd be far less likely to keep encountering the same decks over and over again (which is rather the point of my suggestion). So you've got an anti-Ghostmare deck? Well, if there is only 1 Ghostmare out of the 500 decks in the league, then you're going to waste a lot more time and :electrum than you win if you're skipping every deck that isn't a Ghostmare.
Quote
They already do. The fact is, as it is now, you can choose to use an unimaginative deck, MAYBE get to rank 1, and win some money and that's it. However, you can also try to use an imaginative but efficient deck, maybe reach rank 1, and win some money and have people say : nice arena deck in chat.
If it truly meant something, then you wouldn't keep encountering the same decks over and over again in the leagues, would you? With what I propose you'd get :electrum for having a deck that's interesting enough to play, and you'd get considerably more :electrum for having a deck that's interesting enough to play and which will also win.
Quote
Hum. So basicly, increase the rewards for those with large rewards already (player), while diminishing them for those with small ones already (people submitting decks)? Something is wrong with that.
No, if you read back over my suggestion you'll see that the rewards for the player remain the same, whereas the potential rewards for the person submitting the decks are increased greatly.
Quote
In my opinion, the arena has a good risk/reward ratio. Say you win 50% vs plat, you get tons of money + a bit more than 1 rare every 4 games. Risk : frustation. Imo, good enough.
Whereas with my suggestion you could have exactly the same rewards without the frustration.
Post by: Jenkar on April 27, 2012, 01:18:23 pm
You are wrong on both, in my opinion. It's pretty viable to make decks that have a 95%+ win rate vs another deck type, and people tend to be primitive (reason why thumbs up no work : people thumbs down because they lose 90% of the time)
So, in your opinion, people playing the Arena would make a deck which they know beats just one specific kind of deck and then constantly skip matches until they encounter that particular type of deck?
If diversity and innovation were encouraged in Arena, then you'd be far less likely to keep encountering the same decks over and over again (which is rather the point of my suggestion). So you've got an anti-Ghostmare deck? Well, if there is only 1 Ghostmare out of the 500 decks in the league, then you're going to waste a lot more time and :electrum than you win if you're skipping every deck that isn't a Ghostmare.
*rephrases* that beats certain kinds of decks. Even 10 out of the 500 is enough (1/50, skipping at 4 secs => 1 every 3 mins 1/2. That's a guaranteeed win vs plat every 6-7 mins, assumin' your deck is slow as znaz)
Two points to make here :QuoteThey already do. The fact is, as it is now, you can choose to use an unimaginative deck, MAYBE get to rank 1, and win some money and that's it. However, you can also try to use an imaginative but efficient deck, maybe reach rank 1, and win some money and have people say : nice arena deck in chat.
If it truly meant something, then you wouldn't keep encountering the same decks over and over again in the leagues, would you? With what I propose you'd get :electrum for having a deck that's interesting enough to play, and you'd get considerably more :electrum for having a deck that's interesting enough to play and which will also win.
1) Yes, it means something : not 95%, more like 70% of the leagues are unoriginal. If there was no community behind there'd probably be 95% of unoriginality.
2) Annnd you'd basicly be FORCED not to use some kinds of decks. What if i like submitting ghostmare in arena because it annoys people? (since i do not give a care for :electrum)
I still see the reverse. Let me devellop.QuoteHum. So basicly, increase the rewards for those with large rewards already (player), while diminishing them for those with small ones already (people submitting decks)? Something is wrong with that.
No, if you read back over my suggestion you'll see that the rewards for the player remain the same, whereas the potential rewards for the person submitting the decks are increased greatly.
A) Player who plays can nitpick and basicly choose opponents. Win % increases enormously, so reward increase (base reward x win % = reward)
B) K, reread. So basicly, submit a farm and enjoy free electrum for submitting a losing deck. (people won't be playing winning decks, even if they're original. Unless you can make a deck which looks like it won't win but does, which i don't believe is doable.)
So basicly, reward without risk.QuoteIn my opinion, the arena has a good risk/reward ratio. Say you win 50% vs plat, you get tons of money + a bit more than 1 rare every 4 games. Risk : frustation. Imo, good enough.
Whereas with my suggestion you could have exactly the same rewards without the frustration.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 05:32:34 pm
*rephrases* that beats certain kinds of decks. Even 10 out of the 500 is enough (1/50, skipping at 4 secs => 1 every 3 mins 1/2. That's a guaranteeed win vs plat every 6-7 mins, assumin' your deck is slow as znaz)
49 skips would cost you 245 :electrum, meaning that using this method at the current rate on Platinum you'd be making 77 :electrum every 6-7 minutes if you got an EM and losing at least 84 :electrum every 6-7 minutes if you don't. You'd make more :electrum per minute by farming AI3. You also automatically count yourself out of the possibility of winning an upgraded rare from the special spin.
I don't see why anyone would play this way. It's certainly not a winning strategy.
Quote
Two points to make here :
1) Yes, it means something : not 95%, more like 70% of the leagues are unoriginal. If there was no community behind there'd probably be 95% of unoriginality.
Yet you'd still get exactly the same kudos you get now, plus you'd get a monetary reward. That's even better, isn't it?
Quote
2) Annnd you'd basicly be FORCED not to use some kinds of decks. What if i like submitting ghostmare in arena because it annoys people? (since i do not give a care for :electrum)
Why would you enjoy making other people not enjoy playing the game? Why would you want to actively drive people away? If you enjoy annoying people, why aren't you actively campaigning against zanz wanting to remove sources of frustration?
And, if you truly do enjoy annoying people, then I'd say tough. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If those few people who enjoy actively discouraging others from playing don't get to ruin other people's fun any more and the majority get to enjoy the game more, then I side with those who want to actually enjoy the game. That's kind of the point of a game, isn't it?
Quote
I still see the reverse. Let me devellop.
A) Player who plays can nitpick and basicly choose opponents. Win % increases enormously, so reward increase (base reward x win % = reward)
If you make an interesting deck, people will play it. If you make a boring, unimaginative deck then, well, whose fault is that?
Quote
B) K, reread. So basicly, submit a farm and enjoy free electrum for submitting a losing deck.
A losing deck will drop off the bottom of the leaderboard quickly and won't make much. You can probably earn more on average from Oracle spins. Especially now that you automatically win every card spun.
Quote
(people won't be playing winning decks, even if they're original. Unless you can make a deck which looks like it won't win but does, which i don't believe is doable.)
Unless people like a challenge, of course. Or are after rares. You forget that to get the main reward of playing against the Arena you have to win consecutive rounds. You come up against a deck in Gold that you think your deck might win against, or might not. You've already won 2 in a row. You want a Shard of Wisdom. What do you do? Do you really autoquit?
Quote
So basicly, reward without risk.
No, reward without frustration.
Again, isn't playing a game supposed to be fun? If it's not, then don't you think there's a problem?
Post by: DevilLoss on April 27, 2012, 07:17:08 pm
Post by: Vineroz on April 27, 2012, 07:25:00 pm
I'm all for new art and what not but I also like the old art why cant the upgraded versions of the cards be the new art? Or something like that.
However, the current game client file is about 4Mb in size, if I double the amount of art, it would end up being about 7Mb.
Or... I could download the art from the server as the game needs it... but I do not personally like to see a "loading" thingy every time I click on something.
Post by: Cheesy111 on April 27, 2012, 07:26:31 pm
You don't see an entire deck when you play an Arena deck, you only see the top card. If you can skip decks, you will probably skip decks that 'look' like they're going to be Speedbows or SoSac mono-deaths or Ghsotmares even if they aren't. Unless you're suggesting we see the opponent's entire deck before the game AND being able to skip decks, which would be completely imbalanced. We already see mark and one card that they have five of, and that can be a significant advantage sometimes.Actually, you'd be helping the people who made oraclebows (comparatively). Consider:
Person A is playing Gold League Arena.
Person B puts up a monotime ghost/dragon rush. (Card: Ghost of the Past)
Person C puts up a ghostmare. (Card: Ghost of the Past)
Person D puts up an oraclebow. (Card: Nova)
Person E puts up an oraclebow. (Card: Skeleton)
Person A is more likely to skip players B, C, and D.
I'd play B and none of the others. I'm not sure why you think people would skip B and play E.QuotePutting up an oraclebow with an 'easy' card like Skeleton, however, is rewarded with more plays than an almost exactly the same oraclebow put up with a generally powerful card such as nova.
Why would it be rewarded? Why would people be more likely to play what they can see is an Oraclebow if that bow has a skeleton?
Almost all Oraclebows are powered by Supernovae. Why would having one as the Oracle card make people less likely to play the hand? Why would people forget they find Oraclebows boring if the Oracle card is a skeleton?
If you are suggesting we see the opponent's entire deck before the game, then you're punishing all sorts of common decks which a player knows can beat theirs (ex. Poison decks skipping all Purify decks), which means that you can avoid all counters to your deck without giving those people any wins/electrum for having a deck that could completely trample yours. Quite frankly, that's ridiculous. It also punishes denial, which, while people may not like it because they can't play their cards, is a completely valid archetype and should not be destroyed in Arena just because people don't like having their pillars EQ'd or their quanta BH'd.
Post by: RavingRabbid on April 27, 2012, 07:51:42 pm
I'll still miss the "smiling fish with legs" and the occasional laugh it gave me.
Post by: RRQJ on April 27, 2012, 08:51:09 pm
*rephrases* that beats certain kinds of decks. Even 10 out of the 500 is enough (1/50, skipping at 4 secs => 1 every 3 mins 1/2. That's a guaranteeed win vs plat every 6-7 mins, assumin' your deck is slow as znaz)
49 skips would cost you 245 :electrum, meaning that using this method at the current rate on Platinum you'd be making 77 :electrum every 6-7 minutes if you got an EM and losing at least 84 :electrum every 6-7 minutes if you don't. You'd make more :electrum per minute by farming AI3. You also automatically count yourself out of the possibility of winning an upgraded rare from the special spin.
I don't see why anyone would play this way. It's certainly not a winning strategy.QuoteTwo points to make here :
1) Yes, it means something : not 95%, more like 70% of the leagues are unoriginal. If there was no community behind there'd probably be 95% of unoriginality.
Yet you'd still get exactly the same kudos you get now, plus you'd get a monetary reward. That's even better, isn't it?Quote2) Annnd you'd basicly be FORCED not to use some kinds of decks. What if i like submitting ghostmare in arena because it annoys people? (since i do not give a care for :electrum)
Why would you enjoy making other people not enjoy playing the game? Why would you want to actively drive people away? If you enjoy annoying people, why aren't you actively campaigning against zanz wanting to remove sources of frustration?
And, if you truly do enjoy annoying people, then I'd say tough. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If those few people who enjoy actively discouraging others from playing don't get to ruin other people's fun any more and the majority get to enjoy the game more, then I side with those who want to actually enjoy the game. That's kind of the point of a game, isn't it?QuoteI still see the reverse. Let me devellop.
A) Player who plays can nitpick and basicly choose opponents. Win % increases enormously, so reward increase (base reward x win % = reward)
If you make an interesting deck, people will play it. If you make a boring, unimaginative deck then, well, whose fault is that?QuoteB) K, reread. So basicly, submit a farm and enjoy free electrum for submitting a losing deck.
A losing deck will drop off the bottom of the leaderboard quickly and won't make much. You can probably earn more on average from Oracle spins. Especially now that you automatically win every card spun.Quote(people won't be playing winning decks, even if they're original. Unless you can make a deck which looks like it won't win but does, which i don't believe is doable.)
Unless people like a challenge, of course. Or are after rares. You forget that to get the main reward of playing against the Arena you have to win consecutive rounds. You come up against a deck in Gold that you think your deck might win against, or might not. You've already won 2 in a row. You want a Shard of Wisdom. What do you do? Do you really autoquit?QuoteSo basicly, reward without risk.
No, reward without frustration.
Again, isn't playing a game supposed to be fun? If it's not, then don't you think there's a problem?
I think you may have overlooked one part of zanz's post:
Quote
I am trying my best to take a second, possibly more inspired look at Elements and I am trying to eliminate sources of frustration, while keeping the game challenging.
Gold/platinum were intended to be comparable/harder than false gods. In order to have challenges, they will involve aspects that result in frustration. In a game where in the end it's all about wins/losses, very rarely can you make something challenging and yet not cause some amounts of frustration.
Putting that aside for now, for your solution, I see two scenarios:
The first is that I don't see it doing much of anything. People in gold/platinum care about arena deck wins because it determines the deck rank, which is what they care about. The electrum gain is negligible. Your solution would make it so that the "annoying" decks don't get played, but those decks will likely still have a better ranking because the decks that do get played are likely to be defeated more often than not.
The second scenario (and more likely, imo) would be that the arena would devolve back into something like the former T50. This assumes that the reason people put up difficult decks is mainly because it gives the feeling of them beating you. Your solution basically tells people to either put up a mediocre deck or nobody will play it*. People would probably lose interest in making an effort to build decks given this demand/pressure and eventually there will just be rare farms, non-seriousness, and a return to what zanz was attempting to change in the first place.
*and yes, nobody/very few will play tough decks even if they were "interesting." Thinking otherwise is being way too optimistic. Most people want to win, and they will choose to skip any deck, boring or interesting, that they feel they don't have a good chance of winning. That leaves the decks being played the most as the ones losing most games.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 08:56:19 pm
Unless you're suggesting we see the opponent's entire deck before the game AND being able to skip decks, which would be completely imbalanced.
Yes, if you read back, you'll see that that's exactly what I did suggest. And I don't see how it would be unbalanced.
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 09:14:35 pm
Gold/platinum were intended to be comparable/harder than false gods. In order to have challenges, they will involve aspects that result in frustration. In a game where in the end it's all about wins/losses, very rarely can you make something challenging and yet not cause some amounts of frustration.
There would still be frustration with my suggestion. Just not mostly frustration and drudging tedium as you encounter the same deck over and over and over and over again.
Quote
The first is that I don't see it doing much of anything. People in gold/platinum care about arena deck wins because it determines the deck rank, which is what they care about. The electrum gain is negligible. Your solution would make it so that the "annoying" decks don't get played, but those decks will likely still have a better ranking because the decks that do get played are likely to be defeated more often than not.
So make it that not getting played also moves a deck down in rank.
Quote
*and yes, nobody/very few will play tough decks even if they were "interesting."
If that were true then people would just not play Platinum at all, given all the advantages Platinum has over the player. Even the best anti-Platinum decks have around a 50% chance of winning.
Quote
Most people want to win, and they will choose to skip any deck, boring or interesting, that they feel they don't have a good chance of winning.
This is why you have a penalty for skipping.
I'm not married to my idea, but the truth is that the Arena has a serious problem - it's often not at all fun to play due to seeing the same decks over and over and over again. It's boring at best, and off-putting at worst. It can actively make you not want to play Elements at all, simply because doing so is tedious. As I've said before, I think the primary purpose of a game should be that it's enjoyable to play. Something should happen to address the fact that it's often not at all enjoyable. This is my suggestion. I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why it isn't better than what we currently have, but I'm open to such arguments, and I'm open to hearing better suggestions.
Anyway, this is probably not the thread for this, so I've created one in the suggestions forum: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39294.new.html#new
Post by: bripod on April 27, 2012, 09:34:21 pm
Some of us ENJOY the CHALLENGE of fighting decks rated ABOVE FG's... even when we loose...
Just because your car can't do 200mph is no reason to restrict all other cars in an Indy Race...
I'm sorry, whining like this just brings out the $marta$$ in me...
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 27, 2012, 10:39:47 pm
If you can't field a deck that's competitive vs Gold/Plat and that upsets you, then you need to aim lower...
Some of us ENJOY the CHALLENGE of fighting decks rated ABOVE FG's... even when we loose...
Just because your car can't do 200mph is no reason to restrict all other cars in an Indy Race...
I'm sorry, whining like this just brings out the $marta$$ in me...
I think perhaps you need to re-read everything I've posted, as you're not addressing my arguments but have instead made up some of your own to argue against. If you're going to be a smartarse, then it's probably wise to ensure that you've actually read and understood what it is you're being a smartarse about.
I have a high winrate in both Gold and Platinum. That doesn't mean that the tedium of there being almost no variety is any less. I don't mind losing. I just want to have fun playing the game, rather than just facing the same decks over and over and over again. There are 13 decks in AI3. There are 500 in Gold, and 500 in Platinum. There is little less variety playing against AI3 than playing against Gold or Platinum. This is not great from a gameplay perspective.
Anyway, there's now a thread for this. Let's use it and allow this one to go back to being on topic.
Post by: Newbiecake on April 27, 2012, 11:39:47 pm
Post by: Zerker31 on April 28, 2012, 01:27:12 am
Post by: moomoose on April 28, 2012, 03:32:43 am
as far as limiting frustration- im all for it. at the moment, my main source of frustration comes from there being a large variety of cards which hinder the opponent from playing their strategy successfully (cc, pc, quanta denial and hand manipulation) and very few cards to protect/mitigate/deter against them. in the arms race between destruction and prevention, destruction has many more tools in its arsenal. losing a game due to excessive pc/cc/quanta denial/etc to me feels more like the fun was sucked out of the game than loses otherwise. more additions akin to sanctuary and cloak may be beneficial, that's my 2 :electrum
*edit- however, prior to my breaking past the FG barrier the frustration was bridging between t50/ai3 and FGs, I think lessening the power of half bloods is a step in the right direction as far as that is concerned.
Post by: n00b on April 28, 2012, 03:36:48 am
As to the patch, I think that a cost decrease was something that FFQ needed for a while, and it got it :). As to Psion, I saw it as an interesting card idea before, and hoped that it would come... thanks to moomoose for creating it and Zanzarino for implementing it
Post by: Naesala on April 28, 2012, 04:20:30 am
i love the new art, i dont understand the hate- at all.
I'm not seeing that much hate and I dont think there is so much "hate" as there is preference. requesting minor changes for a better "feel" and/or keeping old art for nostalgia or preference. You can't say anyones opinion on art is better than any other's, its just something to live with. That said those who are flat out hating should keep there comments constructive.
Post by: AP579 on April 28, 2012, 04:44:26 am
Post by: Winter Is Coming on April 28, 2012, 06:26:17 am
Now, I get that they're super ultra rare cards, and I like that about them. I really do, and I agree that they should be. But couldn't there be new questlines where the end result is winning a nymph? And I'm talking hard questlines here. And a different one for each nymph. Like 10-12 progressively harder matches until you end up fighting the "Nymph Lord" of a particular element or something like that. Hell, I'll even take something like 25 matches if you really want to go balls to the wall with it. I mean, then you're talking 120-300 matches (not counting losses) just to get one of each. I don't want them to be easy to get, I'd just like an option to pursue them other than complete and total randomness.
Post by: Rutarete on April 28, 2012, 06:50:17 am
Alright, since someone else already posted a suggestion here, I'm just going to go ahead and post mine as well. I really, really love this game - pretty much everything about it. My only problem is that I don't have the time to participate in things like Tournaments, Leagues, War, etc. I really wish I did, and I've tried, but in the end things happen and I can't keep up my commitments. Normally, this is fine as it only affects me. But for something like War (which I haven't tried to participate in, btw, it lets others down.) So I just don't do them. Again, all that's okay, it's a part of life. But it means that my only avenue to getting nymphs is through the oracle... which is by far the most frustrating aspect to the game to me.
Now, I get that they're super ultra rare cards, and I like that about them. I really do, and I agree that they should be. But couldn't there be new questlines where the end result is winning a nymph? And I'm talking hard questlines here. And a different one for each nymph. Like 10-12 progressively harder matches until you end up fighting the "Nymph Lord" of a particular element or something like that. Hell, I'll even take something like 25 matches if you really want to go balls to the wall with it. I mean, then you're talking 120-300 matches (not counting losses) just to get one of each. I don't want them to be easy to get, I'd just like an option to pursue them other than complete and total randomness.
Something tells me that that would be even more frustrating.
Post by: Winter Is Coming on April 28, 2012, 06:55:43 am
Alright, since someone else already posted a suggestion here, I'm just going to go ahead and post mine as well. I really, really love this game - pretty much everything about it. My only problem is that I don't have the time to participate in things like Tournaments, Leagues, War, etc. I really wish I did, and I've tried, but in the end things happen and I can't keep up my commitments. Normally, this is fine as it only affects me. But for something like War (which I haven't tried to participate in, btw, it lets others down.) So I just don't do them. Again, all that's okay, it's a part of life. But it means that my only avenue to getting nymphs is through the oracle... which is by far the most frustrating aspect to the game to me.
Now, I get that they're super ultra rare cards, and I like that about them. I really do, and I agree that they should be. But couldn't there be new questlines where the end result is winning a nymph? And I'm talking hard questlines here. And a different one for each nymph. Like 10-12 progressively harder matches until you end up fighting the "Nymph Lord" of a particular element or something like that. Hell, I'll even take something like 25 matches if you really want to go balls to the wall with it. I mean, then you're talking 120-300 matches (not counting losses) just to get one of each. I don't want them to be easy to get, I'd just like an option to pursue them other than complete and total randomness.
Something tells me that that would be even more frustrating.
You wouldn't HAVE to do it... It would just be another option to getting them. I can't see how it would be more frustrating than having NO options.
Post by: moomoose on April 28, 2012, 03:18:06 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on April 28, 2012, 03:20:07 pm
nae, was mostly referring to those who were overly critical and rude, as well as those that sent vrt anonymous emails.
anonymous emails? you serious? what an overreaction over some art dont you think?
Post by: vrt on April 28, 2012, 03:50:47 pm
nae, was mostly referring to those who were overly critical and rude, as well as those that sent vrt anonymous emails.
anonymous emails? you serious? what an overreaction over some art dont you think?
Same thing happened when the new pillar art launched. I don't understand why people get this worked up over it, but it's not very motivational to say the least.
Post by: Poker Alho on April 28, 2012, 03:54:04 pm
nae, was mostly referring to those who were overly critical and rude, as well as those that sent vrt anonymous emails.
anonymous emails? you serious? what an overreaction over some art dont you think?
Same thing happened when the new pillar art launched. I don't understand why people get this worked up over it, but it's not very motivational to say the least.
thats a shame and a childish reaction from some people. I just want to say i love your art and your style but even if i didnt, i would never send an anonymous email to you all biased about it...
Post by: RRQJ on April 28, 2012, 05:38:14 pm
Alright, since someone else already posted a suggestion here, I'm just going to go ahead and post mine as well. I really, really love this game - pretty much everything about it. My only problem is that I don't have the time to participate in things like Tournaments, Leagues, War, etc. I really wish I did, and I've tried, but in the end things happen and I can't keep up my commitments. Normally, this is fine as it only affects me. But for something like War (which I haven't tried to participate in, btw, it lets others down.) So I just don't do them. Again, all that's okay, it's a part of life. But it means that my only avenue to getting nymphs is through the oracle... which is by far the most frustrating aspect to the game to me.
Now, I get that they're super ultra rare cards, and I like that about them. I really do, and I agree that they should be. But couldn't there be new questlines where the end result is winning a nymph? And I'm talking hard questlines here. And a different one for each nymph. Like 10-12 progressively harder matches until you end up fighting the "Nymph Lord" of a particular element or something like that. Hell, I'll even take something like 25 matches if you really want to go balls to the wall with it. I mean, then you're talking 120-300 matches (not counting losses) just to get one of each. I don't want them to be easy to get, I'd just like an option to pursue them other than complete and total randomness.
Something tells me that that would be even more frustrating.
You wouldn't HAVE to do it... It would just be another option to getting them. I can't see how it would be more frustrating than having NO options.
How many nymphs do you have? I used to be somewhat annoyed too about this, but after spinning quite a number of nymphs, I've found that most of them are just there to spiff up my collection. Assuming they aren't getting an overhaul anytime soon, they're really not great for the most part. The attraction is literally because they can only be won from the oracle (and tournaments, but since most people take marks, it doesn't really count). Adding in a way to get them without pure luck will change that perception, no matter the difficulty (of course, if it's ludicrously difficult, it will cause more frustration, and yes, probably more than just hoping for one from the oracle).
Just be patient and spin the oracle everyday. Hopefully you can sort of understand what I'm trying to get at eventually. (Again, assuming the nymphs stay about the same).
Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the odds of getting a nymph from the oracle. The 50/50 chance of respinning could be removed, and the chance would still be fairly low. But that's a judgment call.
Post by: nilsieboy on April 28, 2012, 08:42:27 pm
and i hope you know the biggest part of this community thinks your art is beautiful (especialy your charger/dragon).nae, was mostly referring to those who were overly critical and rude, as well as those that sent vrt anonymous emails.
anonymous emails? you serious? what an overreaction over some art dont you think?
Same thing happened when the new pillar art launched. I don't understand why people get this worked up over it, but it's not very motivational to say the least.
Post by: TheManuz on April 28, 2012, 08:44:47 pm
Sure! And some people are just trolls inside, don't bother upon them!and i hope you know the biggest part of this community thinks your art is beautiful (especialy your charger/dragon).nae, was mostly referring to those who were overly critical and rude, as well as those that sent vrt anonymous emails.
anonymous emails? you serious? what an overreaction over some art dont you think?
Same thing happened when the new pillar art launched. I don't understand why people get this worked up over it, but it's not very motivational to say the least.
Post by: n00b on April 28, 2012, 10:54:04 pm
Post by: grimrock on April 28, 2012, 10:55:36 pm
Thanks for this great game!
Post by: desire on April 29, 2012, 07:02:38 am
Post by: asymmetry on April 29, 2012, 01:57:34 pm
UI:♥.999999
New lycanthrope, pufferfish, colossal dragon, sapphire charger and firefly queen art (by vrt and pepokish)
Also, the whole 1.31 thing :) Zanz is a genius.
Post by: RavingRabbid on April 30, 2012, 08:19:31 am
Does this mean the old rustler is about to disappear? Or is it worth it?... it would be cool to keep the old for one version of the card ...
Yes, it would.
However, the current game client file is about 4Mb in size, if I double the amount of art, it would end up being about 7Mb.
Or... I could download the art from the server as the game needs it... but I do not personally like to see a "loading" thingy every time I click on something.
Bottom line is: the old art has to be worth the time you wait for the game to download it.
Post by: TheManuz on April 30, 2012, 09:52:14 am
Mhhh... i'll put this here: maybe you could add a button in settings (or elsewhere) saying "download additional resources".Does this mean the old rustler is about to disappear? Or is it worth it?... it would be cool to keep the old for one version of the card ...
Yes, it would.
However, the current game client file is about 4Mb in size, if I double the amount of art, it would end up being about 7Mb.
Or... I could download the art from the server as the game needs it... but I do not personally like to see a "loading" thingy every time I click on something.
Bottom line is: the old art has to be worth the time you wait for the game to download it.
This would let only people that are willing to wait to download the old art and use them (only if available) on unupped cards.
But this could be a useless complication, i'm not sure. Maybe it's not worth it, or maybe it is, you should evaluate pro and cons.
Post by: Xenocidius on April 30, 2012, 10:03:17 am
That said, I don't really see the need for keeping the old, (arguably) inferior art. Ideally we should aim to get rid of Spore art, not hold onto it like fond grandmothers onto their old radios.
Post by: Jenkar on April 30, 2012, 10:09:30 am
inferior art.Beauty is in the eye of the viewer. You are entitled to think it is, but many do not. I like both rustler & leaf dragon art, for example.
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 30, 2012, 10:23:36 am
Is it really that much of a problem? Everything will be cached, so players won't have to go through the loading process very often. Having a small client file and pulling images from the server may be a good idea though, so as not to initially put off potential new players.
That said, I don't really see the need for keeping the old, inferior art. Ideally we should aim to get rid of Spore art, not hold onto it like fond grandmothers onto their old radios.
While not necessarily inferior, I like how we are growing out of Spore art. I like the new art much more. Another thanks to the artists is in order.
Post by: n00b on April 30, 2012, 11:56:19 am
Post by: Captain Scibra on April 30, 2012, 12:07:34 pm
I know that a while ago/whenever you were last in chat, I had asked you about the new quests, and you said that they wouldn't come in v1.30 but most likely in v1.31, and I was wondering if that's still the plan or will they be in a later update
Considering the speed of this update, it likely will be later, as he may need time to think about how they will be made/balanced, and I doubt it is as simple as sitting down like he would when working on the game code.
Post by: BluePriest on April 30, 2012, 02:53:37 pm
I really dont understand how FFQ looking fiery was a plus in the first place. It was a wind creature that generated a wind creature that generated fire. Firefly could look fiery, but I see no reason for FFQ to require looking fiery.
Post by: Poker Alho on April 30, 2012, 03:06:00 pm
People need to stop complaining about the art. It was spore art. We get art that is now 100% community made and unique.^this
I really dont understand how FFQ looking fiery was a plus in the first place. It was a wind creature that generated a wind creature that generated fire. Firefly could look fiery, but I see no reason for FFQ to require looking fiery.
no good reason to maintain FFQ's old art
Post by: Zaealix on April 30, 2012, 04:36:42 pm
Sapphire Charger I like the new art on. See, the old charger, to me at least, had all these weird spikes and curves to it that made figuing out the shape of it (to me at least) very difficult. All I really could tell was that it was a quadraped creature.
And a nice touch to the new gravity creature art: The creatures have a recurring theme in the background of their world...Almost suggests with a bit of filler work, Vrt could do a sort of 'wildlife savanna' picture with all the gravity creatures hanging out together (maybe in a very early stage of chimera creation?)
Lycantrope looks a bit more like a proper werewolf which is nice.
Pufferfish now looks more specific to being an aquatic creature. Yea, old one had fins, but that thing also had legs that pointed it more toward being amphibian than aquatic...
Post by: Dhanzig on April 30, 2012, 05:14:00 pm
This is how I envision it (Please forgive my poor art skills and obvious Mario 3 theft ...)
(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj520/Dhanzig/Phoenixwithflyingicononin.png)
Post by: Naesala on April 30, 2012, 05:45:48 pm
Post by: Wizy on April 30, 2012, 05:50:46 pm
me ish ninja (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEtIoGQxqQs)
Post by: YoungSot on April 30, 2012, 05:52:09 pm
EDIT: Wizyninja'd
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 01, 2012, 10:48:42 am
Post by: vagman13 on May 01, 2012, 06:15:47 pm
cmon zanz,we want pretty images ^^
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 01, 2012, 06:50:55 pm
how come this patch is not online yet? Since it's mostly art changes I doubt there needs to be balance testing.This patch needs to include at least a Water card, possibly a very useful one.
cmon zanz,we want pretty images ^^
Post by: vagman13 on May 01, 2012, 06:53:01 pm
This patch needs to include at least a Water card, possibly a very useful one.
The famous water PC card ?
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 01, 2012, 07:16:15 pm
Post by: Tiko on May 01, 2012, 07:21:58 pm
Well, Tiko does have a point. If we're going for a "which element last got a shiny new piece to play with", next up is Water. Maybe we could organize a competition for this?
I did not say it, though I agree. Just don't rely on competitions in this matter, please. The results would probably hurt more than help.
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 01, 2012, 07:38:12 pm
Well, Tiko does have a point. If we're going for a "which element last got a shiny new piece to play with", next up is Water. Maybe we could organize a competition for this?
I did not say it, though I agree. Just don't rely on competitions in this matter, please. The results would probably hurt more than help.
Well. IIRC Phoenix and Shard of Serendipity came from a competition. SoSe is one of the most balanced and fun shards (though I loathe shards in general) and phoenix is awesome. So maybe it won't hurt too much?
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 01, 2012, 07:40:10 pm
Post by: Jenkar on May 01, 2012, 07:46:29 pm
Crusader too iirc.Well, Tiko does have a point. If we're going for a "which element last got a shiny new piece to play with", next up is Water. Maybe we could organize a competition for this?
I did not say it, though I agree. Just don't rely on competitions in this matter, please. The results would probably hurt more than help.
Well. IIRC Phoenix and Shard of Serendipity came from a competition. SoSe is one of the most balanced and fun shards (though I loathe shards in general) and phoenix is awesome. So maybe it won't hurt too much?
The point is, i don't think a comp ''make a new water card'' would work, mainly because there's no guarantee of zanz picking the winner.
Post by: vrt on May 01, 2012, 07:58:40 pm
Post by: majofa on May 01, 2012, 08:20:33 pm
In fact, Phoenix lost the competition it entered in.Before, it was almost a completely unkillable creature, as it could just keep coming back. Also, who can guess the card it lost to?
Post by: vrt on May 01, 2012, 08:35:18 pm
In fact, Phoenix lost the competition it entered in.Before, it was almost a completely unkillable creature, as it could just keep coming back. Also, who can guess the card it lost to?
Oi, Crusader.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on May 01, 2012, 08:36:48 pm
In fact, Phoenix lost the competition it entered in.Before, it was almost a completely unkillable creature, as it could just keep coming back. Also, who can guess the card it lost to?
On the note of helping certain Elements out with much-needed cards such as Water PC, a few threads have been started on the subject of 'Completing' certain Elements to increase their overall flexibility and strength to keep them on par with some of the more well-rounded Elements in this game. A list of needed niches from our Idea Guru can be found here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg423870.html#msg423870).
Competitions can spawn good ideas, but IMHO being a little too blatant with the purpose (such as the "Make a new water card" one above) can lower the quality a bit and as Jenkar mentioned there's no guarantee Zanz would pick a winner unless he told me, Kuro, or Kami to actually make such a competition. An unofficial competition in the CI&A is possible if you want to get good ideas, though.
Post by: majofa on May 01, 2012, 08:42:22 pm
Actually Phoenix didn't even get 2nd or 3rd. The poll's gone, so I'm not sure how many votes it even got.In fact, Phoenix lost the competition it entered in.Before, it was almost a completely unkillable creature, as it could just keep coming back. Also, who can guess the card it lost to?
Oi, Crusader.
Post by: salox on May 02, 2012, 05:30:29 am
I like the new firefly queen and colossal dragon, and maybe the puffer fish
and a little bit the new sapphire charger
but I am kinda used to the current art of those cards, and I feel like they carry some of the identity of the game, and it will be lost if those are removed.
I would like that cards could keep their current art on unupped form, and change it on upped
and also, the new lycanthrope image sucks to me
Post by: Annele on May 02, 2012, 06:33:31 am
I've discovered that I'm not a fan of all these art changes
I like the new firefly queen and colossal dragon, and maybe the puffer fish
and a little bit the new sapphire charger
but I am kinda used to the current art of those cards, and I feel like they carry some of the identity of the game, and it will be lost if those are removed.
I would like that cards could keep their current art on unupped form, and change it on upped
and also, the new lycanthrope image sucks to me
Well, its certainly MUCH better than the original. It didn't even look like what it was supposed to be. I agree, I will miss the old art, but the new art is really cool, and adds a new flavour to the game.
Post by: MV296 on May 02, 2012, 06:38:35 am
I wonder if the other dragons are going to get an art buff too?
I would love to have all cards that look even slightly bad redone by vrt.
Post by: BoredLoser on May 02, 2012, 08:23:46 am
What is Psion?
- an expensive source of self-Momentum on a creature with a medium-low attack
- A nigh-meaningless boost to the number of use cases for the rarely-used reflect shields
- Another way to make Fire/Thorn Shield unable to do the job they purport to do
What problems does Psion solve? How does it improve the game?
- ...
- ...
- ???
- Nothing?
- It adds a new kind of attacking creature to the game (homework question: is "more" inherently "better"?)
- It will reduce the number of superfluous submitted card ideas that involve creatures dealing spell damage
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 02, 2012, 12:24:09 pm
I can't see any flaws in the game that Psion is uniquely equipped to fix or improve.
What is Psion?Part of this is a problem with damage shields' inherent design. You play them and then HOPE that they kill your attackers. Whereas PC cards simply work, they destroy the target, and CC cards have a reliable, instant effect that can't get nullified on your opponent's turn via Sundial, Patience, PC, etc.
- an expensive source of self-Momentum on a creature with a medium-low attack
- A nigh-meaningless boost to the number of use cases for the rarely-used reflect shields
- Another way to make Fire/Thorn Shield unable to do the job they purport to do
What problems does Psion solve? How does it improve the game?
- ...
- ...
- ???
- Nothing?
- It adds a new kind of attacking creature to the game (homework question: is "more" inherently "better"?)
- It will reduce the number of superfluous submitted card ideas that involve creatures dealing spell damage
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,76.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,76.0.html)
Post by: Avenger on May 02, 2012, 01:02:15 pm
I can't see any flaws in the game that Psion is uniquely equipped to fix or improve.
What is Psion?Part of this is a problem with damage shields' inherent design. You play them and then HOPE that they kill your attackers. Whereas PC cards simply work, they destroy the target, and CC cards have a reliable, instant effect that can't get nullified on your opponent's turn via Sundial, Patience, PC, etc.
- an expensive source of self-Momentum on a creature with a medium-low attack
- A nigh-meaningless boost to the number of use cases for the rarely-used reflect shields
- Another way to make Fire/Thorn Shield unable to do the job they purport to do
What problems does Psion solve? How does it improve the game?
- ...
- ...
- ???
- Nothing?
- It adds a new kind of attacking creature to the game (homework question: is "more" inherently "better"?)
- It will reduce the number of superfluous submitted card ideas that involve creatures dealing spell damage
Added cards are always good, they don't have to "fix" a flaw. More importantly, added cards should never be added to fix a flaw.
By now, the game must have been "perfect" without them. If there is a flaw, that should have been fixed with focusing on the problem, not by adding complexity. You increase complexity (while keeping the balance) to keep the game interesting for old players. So far the psion seems to fulfill that role.
You apparently complain about the cards "usefulness", some others say it is useful. So likely, the card is balanced.
1. Psion is a balancing force on shields. You took this apart into two "bad" effects, but overall this is a balancing effect.
2. A new, unique way of doing damage.
3. Another creature option.
4. Another shield bypass option.
Post by: zanzarino on May 02, 2012, 03:22:58 pm
I am going to fix a few more bugs before this patch is released.
Post by: YoungSot on May 02, 2012, 03:25:31 pm
A turn of vulnerability is a big improvement. It's still powerful in that it can be used multiple times and by any element, but now at least it can be countered effectively by CC.
Post by: majofa on May 02, 2012, 03:31:18 pm
Updated OP with a few changes to shard of focus.And spectate turn-off switch... or trainer vs trainer battle... or anything similar? :(
I am going to fix a few more bugs before this patch is released.
Post by: Jenkar on May 02, 2012, 03:39:11 pm
A) He has other, bigger priorities in term of game devellopment
B) Coding difficulties
C) Other reason.
The constant request for things in this thread, with users repeating themselves, is highly annoying, and not only to me. If you want to make game suggestions/feedback, there's a board for it (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html).
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 02, 2012, 03:41:01 pm
@ everyone repeatin' suggestion over 9000 times in thread : i'm sure zanz reads most of what goes on the forum, especially in this thread. If he's not putting it in (yet), it's probably because :I agree with this.
A) He has other, bigger priorities in term of game devellopment
B) Coding difficulties
C) Other reason.
The constant request for things in this thread, with users repeating themselves, is highly annoying, and not only to me. If you want to make game suggestions/feedback, there's a board for it (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html).
Post by: majofa on May 02, 2012, 03:43:51 pm
Post by: zanzarino on May 02, 2012, 03:46:14 pm
... I've never seen him in the GS&F section
Guess again :)
P.S.: I read ALL the GS&F posts. Making spectator mode optional is not as simple as you think.
Post by: majofa on May 02, 2012, 03:48:43 pm
I'll be watching. ;)... I've never seen him in the GS&F section
Guess again :)
P.S.: I read ALL the GS&F posts. Making spectator mode optional is not as simple as you think.
There has to be a way though, right?
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 02, 2012, 03:55:01 pm
I'll be watching. ;)... I've never seen him in the GS&F section
Guess again :)
P.S.: I read ALL the GS&F posts. Making spectator mode optional is not as simple as you think.
There has to be a way though, right?
I think fixing bugs, improving AI, introducing new cards, new quests, the Trial thing, all the meat on the plate already... comes first, especially if this is a long work.
Post by: majofa on May 02, 2012, 04:04:54 pm
I know, it seems like a lot of work for one person to do. :( (If only he'd let someone help him a little) Remember the old forums, where SG was doing too much for one person. Now think of the new forums, stuff gets done quickly. I just don't want zanz to get burned out.I'll be watching. ;)... I've never seen him in the GS&F section
Guess again :)
P.S.: I read ALL the GS&F posts. Making spectator mode optional is not as simple as you think.
There has to be a way though, right?
I think fixing bugs, improving AI, introducing new cards, new quests, the Trial thing, all the meat on the plate already... comes first, especially if this is a long work.
Post by: Chapuz on May 02, 2012, 04:34:51 pm
Updated OP with a few changes to shard of focus.1) Play shard of focus
2) Play overdrive in the same turn
SoFo gets killed or with 15 HP?
Post by: Poker Alho on May 02, 2012, 04:35:41 pm
Updated OP with a few changes to shard of focus.1) Play shard of focus
2) Play overdrive in the same turn
SoFo gets killed or with 15 HP?
what were the changes made to SoF?
Post by: Wizy on May 02, 2012, 04:39:58 pm
Gets killed. It gains HP through an active ability, it can not be activated the turn it is summoned.Updated OP with a few changes to shard of focus.1) Play shard of focus
2) Play overdrive in the same turn
SoFo gets killed or with 15 HP?
Post by: majofa on May 02, 2012, 04:40:48 pm
Currently in trainer.
New cards:
Psion
Balance:
The Oracle always grants the chosen card
Half-Blood HP reduced to 150
Firefly queen cost reduced to 6
Pharaoh stats increased to 4/9
Shard of focus HP reduced to 1
Shard of focus turns into a black hole when HP>45
Upgraded shard of focus cost increased to 6
Upgraded shard of focus generates upgraded black holes
Bug fix:
- Score and electrum gained are correctly calculated for an arena win (5 coins/score points were missing)
- Fractal and nightmare do not cause random bugs anymore (hopefully) when used by AI on an evading creature
- The opponent dissipation shield does not block weapons anymore if sanctuary is also in play
- Shard of focus turns into a black hole only when the accretion skill is activated
UI:
New lycanthrope, pufferfish, colossal dragon, sapphire charger and firefly queen art (by vrt and pepokish)
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 02, 2012, 04:41:13 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on May 02, 2012, 04:42:34 pm
Post by: Jenkar on May 02, 2012, 04:44:50 pm
seems a good nerf, but wont that mean more uses before it turns into a BH?Nope.
1+15*3 => 46>45 => bh with new version
15+15*3 => 60>50 => bh with old version.
Post by: Wizy on May 02, 2012, 04:45:29 pm
seems a good nerf, but wont that mean more uses before it turns into a BH?0/1 -> 0/16 -> 0/31 -> 0/46
Same uses. It is now easier to get one extra use by damaging it tho.
(ninja'd)
Post by: majofa on May 02, 2012, 04:45:46 pm
seems a good nerf, but wont that mean more uses before it turns into a BH?
He reduced the HP needed to change into a Black Hole to 45.
Post by: Zso_Zso on May 02, 2012, 04:46:25 pm
There was very little reason to play against HBs, if you could hnadle them, then you could handle FGs too. So it is very good to separate the difficulties more.
In terms of thematic fit, I would suggest to also change the mark to 2x for them. I know that is a smaller impact, but it would be nice to have all perks change gradually from AI3 to FG, with the in-between step represented by the HB. We already have that in terms of upgraded cards, now HP so only the mark is missing to fit the theme.
Post by: Vendanna on May 02, 2012, 05:05:26 pm
1) Play shard of focus
2) Play overdrive in the same turn
SoFo gets killed or with 15 HP?
SoFo gets killed since it starts with 1 hp.
Post by: furballdn on May 02, 2012, 06:19:17 pm
Post by: AvusXIV on May 02, 2012, 08:18:31 pm
About the HB change: reduction of HP to 150 is excellent move to place it more in-between AI3 and FG.
There was very little reason to play against HBs, if you could hnadle them, then you could handle FGs too. So it is very good to separate the difficulties more.
In terms of thematic fit, I would suggest to also change the mark to 2x for them. I know that is a smaller impact, but it would be nice to have all perks change gradually from AI3 to FG, with the in-between step represented by the HB. We already have that in terms of upgraded cards, now HP so only the mark is missing to fit the theme.
Great proposal. I've always been asking myself why there is almost no difference between them.
150 HP and x2 Mark is fine imo.
Still I am not sure about the Double Draw and 30% (?) upped...incease the % for farmers or reduce the % upped cards for more balance between AI3 and AI5?
Post by: TheManuz on May 02, 2012, 08:35:39 pm
Or make them give 2 spins unupped and 1 spin upped!About the HB change: reduction of HP to 150 is excellent move to place it more in-between AI3 and FG.
There was very little reason to play against HBs, if you could hnadle them, then you could handle FGs too. So it is very good to separate the difficulties more.
In terms of thematic fit, I would suggest to also change the mark to 2x for them. I know that is a smaller impact, but it would be nice to have all perks change gradually from AI3 to FG, with the in-between step represented by the HB. We already have that in terms of upgraded cards, now HP so only the mark is missing to fit the theme.
Great proposal. I've always been asking myself why there is almost no difference between them.
150 HP and x2 Mark is fine imo.
Still I am not sure about the Double Draw and 30% (?) upped...incease the % for farmers or reduce the % upped cards for more balance between AI3 and AI5?
Post by: Fireleaf on May 02, 2012, 09:14:41 pm
Post by: teffy on May 02, 2012, 11:00:06 pm
[...]
Or make them give 2 spins unupped and 1 spin upped!
A good idea, I think. "33% upped cards". However, hard to change rewards later.
It avoids the situation with unupped and upped copies in a spin, which make AI5 win rates lower. Very intuitive. Not all players know, that Halfbloods have 30% upped cards and that you can win them. Change the description in the main menu, and players see, that something "changed", and can estimate upped win rate better.
Edit:
Could be too little room in the main menu for the text.
Post by: MV296 on May 03, 2012, 06:47:44 am
*Looks at clock* ?_?
Post by: BluePriest on May 03, 2012, 12:36:06 pm
when is 1.31 going into the game??
*Looks at clock* ?_?
Updated OP with a few changes to shard of focus.
I am going to fix a few more bugs before this patch is released.
Post by: shileka on May 04, 2012, 10:42:49 am
Post by: TheManuz on May 04, 2012, 11:26:47 am
Post by: Poker Alho on May 04, 2012, 11:36:10 am
I can't wait to use my boosted Pharaohs to produce hundreds of scarabs that will eat Shards of Focus!
im sick of those random SoF in arena decks >:(
Post by: TheManuz on May 04, 2012, 11:47:10 am
Devour them ALLLL!!! >:(I can't wait to use my boosted Pharaohs to produce hundreds of scarabs that will eat Shards of Focus!
im sick of those random SoF in arena decks >:(
Post by: Captain Scibra on May 04, 2012, 12:13:56 pm
Post by: mesaprotector on May 04, 2012, 05:13:17 pm
Just a question. I recall Xeno mentioning that some cards (Miracle was one, I believe) were not chosen by the Oracle when he peeked at the code. Any chance of them being included with the new change, or ever for that matter?
Similarly, I don't believe I've ever seen an AI4 (Halfblood) play a Miracle. I'm wondering if this is intentional.
Post by: Poker Alho on May 04, 2012, 05:14:53 pm
Just a question. I recall Xeno mentioning that some cards (Miracle was one, I believe) were not chosen by the Oracle when he peeked at the code. Any chance of them being included with the new change, or ever for that matter?
Similarly, I don't believe I've ever seen an AI4 (Halfblood) play a Miracle. I'm wondering if this is intentional.
I believe i have seen that and artic squids as well but i might be wrong :S
Post by: Jenkar on May 04, 2012, 05:19:52 pm
Post by: TheManuz on May 04, 2012, 05:53:37 pm
Only Miracle.Are you sure? There are 144 HB out there...
Post by: Jenkar on May 04, 2012, 06:03:58 pm
Lol,no. There are much much more since decks are semi random.Only Miracle.Are you sure? There are 144 HB out there...
I'm 100% sure for oracle & nearly 100% sure for HBs.
Post by: FIQ on May 04, 2012, 07:25:10 pm
Semi-random, yes. 24 of each element, 12 for a version with more pillars (1st part of his name), 12 for the mark and less pillars (Last part of the name). There are 2 light versions, and none of them contain Miracle.Lol,no. There are much much more since decks are semi random.Only Miracle.Are you sure? There are 144 HB out there...
I'm 100% sure for oracle & nearly 100% sure for HBs.
As for Oracle, there are a fate-thingy for it, but it isn't in the pools for some reason unknown for me.
Post by: Jenkar on May 04, 2012, 07:49:28 pm
Me, from http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23323.0.html
Post by: Gunthar on May 04, 2012, 08:30:02 pm
Post by: microman362 on May 05, 2012, 01:16:28 am
Post by: Annele on May 06, 2012, 03:58:20 am
The only thing I really don't like about the art is the the unupped and upped :gravity dragons don't have different art. It bothers me because it should, as it used to, and every dragon should. Otherwise it's awesome and much better than some of the old.
I agree. So should Arctic Dragon. :D
Vrt's art is still better than the old art though.
Post by: inspector on May 06, 2012, 11:30:28 pm
Currently in trainer.Nice idea and seems fairly balanced at 5|5 (upped).
New cards:
Psion
Quote
Balance:Reasonable update, I wonder what was the reason it originally gave out the cards so infrequently, was it because of the data usage of random cards filling all the accounts?
The Oracle always grants the chosen card
Quote
Half-Blood HP reduced to 150Doesn't make them worth farming over some arenas, but my fine-tuned rainbow aggro that did consistent ~95% win ratio can't wait to win 2 turns faster ;)
Quote
Firefly queen cost reduced to 6Why? FFQ is the #1 best creature in the entire game and it gets even better? Madness.
Oh, and I absolutely love the new art.
Quote
Pharaoh stats increased to 4/9Also not sure if needed, this guy became pretty strong thanks to updated SoR, this little buff won't change much.
Quote
Shard of focus HP reduced to 1Yesss, it's a fair card this way. Not anymore an auto-include everywhere but still a decent option when PC is needed.
Shard of focus turns into a black hole when HP>45
Original version is blatantly imba and it was very obvious on first sight, I still don't know how it made through the tests into live release.
Quote
Upgraded shard of focus cost increased to 6That's Reasonable and perhaps even a buff. I can still first turn drop it off 2 QTs but the chance I'll actually cast the black hole out of it gets much better (talking about rainbow decks obviously).
Upgraded shard of focus generates upgraded black holes
Quote
Bug fix:IMPORTANT: This bug exists also in PvP(2), is that fixed in 1.31 as well ? ?
- Score and electrum gained are correctly calculated for an arena win (5 coins/score points were missing)
Quote
- Fractal and nightmare do not cause random bugs anymore (hopefully) when used by AI on an evading creatureGreat update overall!
- The opponent dissipation shield does not block weapons anymore if sanctuary is also in play
- Shard of focus turns into a black hole only when the accretion skill is activated
UI:
New lycanthrope, pufferfish, colossal dragon, sapphire charger and firefly queen art (by vrt and pepokish)
Post by: Jenkar on May 07, 2012, 12:03:25 am
Post by: Poker Alho on May 07, 2012, 12:27:56 am
Would it be possible for this patch to become live in 1-2weeks? SoFo balance would certainly help for leagues :>
im even starting to get people in bronze with SoF its quite frustrating
Post by: majofa on May 07, 2012, 06:22:48 pm
Quote
Auburn, Grey, Queen, and Blue Nymphs stats increased to 6/8 - 7/9 if upgraded
Upgraded turquoise nymph stats increased to 9/4
Upgraded White nymph stats increased to 7/9
Green Nymph cost reduced to 8
This ^
Post by: Mithcairion on May 07, 2012, 06:36:15 pm
Post by: Atico on May 07, 2012, 06:44:45 pm
Post by: Shantu on May 07, 2012, 07:00:50 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on May 07, 2012, 07:07:10 pm
All ph33r Jezebel!
just became a pretty scary god that one o.O
Post by: majofa on May 07, 2012, 07:10:38 pm
Finally dolls will work!All ph33r Jezebel!
just became a pretty scary god that one o.O
Post by: mesaprotector on May 07, 2012, 07:16:05 pm
Finally dolls will work!All ph33r Jezebel!
just became a pretty scary god that one o.O
Oh god, Jezebel. She was already scary enough, now she'll be brutal.
Osiris and Fire Queen also getting tougher this patch.
Post by: Jenkar on May 07, 2012, 07:44:06 pm
Post by: Belligerence on May 07, 2012, 09:07:40 pm
Post by: majofa on May 07, 2012, 09:12:23 pm
Quote
White nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgradedLast I checked, there was no such card as a 'White Nymph'.... finally decided to change the name back? lol
Post by: bogtro on May 07, 2012, 09:26:36 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on May 07, 2012, 09:43:10 pm
...Auburn Nymph 6|8? That's absolutely scary. Just really scary.
My first thought as well. Or something similar, anyways :)
Post by: willng3 on May 07, 2012, 09:44:03 pm
Post by: RRQJ on May 07, 2012, 10:26:24 pm
Blue nymph buff is excellent. Finally, not dyin' to UGs.
and also won't be dying to one hit of almost every other cc card.
Post by: AP579 on May 07, 2012, 10:26:47 pm
Upgraded turquoise nymph stats increased to 9/4...what!?
No moar :life + :aether nymphs? D: Aww...
At least life itself has 3...c:
Post by: Rutarete on May 07, 2012, 10:49:00 pm
PU X Nymph just got a whole lot more realistic.You read my mind :)
Post by: Onizuka on May 07, 2012, 11:20:54 pm
Post by: Newbiecake on May 07, 2012, 11:35:34 pm
And a serious request Zanz while you're at balancing Nymphs, can you do something about the Red Nymph's ability as per the Red Nymph Buff/Nerf thread? We don't like that difference of quanta to use its ability as well as that 1/1 difference that can just barely buff some creatures/kill them.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 07, 2012, 11:37:35 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on May 07, 2012, 11:37:51 pm
Wow... well, I agree with buffing the death nymph's stats because it's totally useless in its current form, but the rest of those seem unnecessary to me; I've used the rest of those nymphs in their current form and think they're good already. Oh, well, I have all the buffed nymphs except the light one, and my one already upped nymph is the aether one, so I guess I'll just enjoy it :pQueen nymph was pretty useless to.
My nymph queen decks just became viable it seems.
And now i'm going to have to make use of the 6 death nymphs i have to!
Post by: Opsinis on May 08, 2012, 12:05:25 am
I really like this new buff to the nymphs. It is an exciting time for this community and game.
Can't wait for this to go live. Bravo!
Post by: teffy on May 08, 2012, 12:09:26 am
But why does upped aether nymph get +1 atk. The old one was perfect for Adrenaline.
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 08, 2012, 12:25:27 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 08, 2012, 12:32:15 am
Queen nymph was pretty useless to.
My nymph queen decks just became viable it seems.
And now i'm going to have to make use of the 6 death nymphs i have to!
I've actually used my water nymphs in the past, though. (and my auburn one) I've never used my death nymph :p Eeven with the buff, I doubt I will, but at least it'll be playable, but with these buffs, it'll still be the worst one. I don't think I've used my air nymph either, even though it's actually one of the better ones.
Post by: AP579 on May 08, 2012, 12:41:07 am
Post by: RootRanger on May 08, 2012, 12:42:20 am
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 12:45:14 am
These nymph buffs are pretty ridiculous. I now highly doubt that zanz prioritizes PvP over AI and Arena.
I don't follow the logic.
Post by: BluePriest on May 08, 2012, 12:45:55 am
thisThese nymph buffs are pretty ridiculous. I now highly doubt that zanz prioritizes PvP over AI and Arena.
I don't follow the logic.
They needed buffs, and they got buffs.
Post by: omegareaper7 on May 08, 2012, 12:46:23 am
Nor do I. The air and light nymphs may not have needed it, but death and queen would never see actual pvp without this buff.These nymph buffs are pretty ridiculous. I now highly doubt that zanz prioritizes PvP over AI and Arena.
I don't follow the logic.
Post by: RootRanger on May 08, 2012, 12:48:06 am
5 Nymphs received huge buffs. Nymphs are won primarily through luck, which means lucky players have larger advantages than before. This makes a much bigger difference in PvP, where small advantages have a much bigger impact.These nymph buffs are pretty ridiculous. I now highly doubt that zanz prioritizes PvP over AI and Arena.
I don't follow the logic.
Basically, zanz is rewarding lucky players much more than before, which damages PvP. The only reason I see he would do this is to make people that spin Nymphs enjoy playing the AI more because their Nymphs are stronger.
Honestly, these are huge buffs.
Auburn, Grey, Queen, and Blue Nymphs stats increased to 6/8 - 7/9 if upgraded
White nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgraded
Grey and White arguably won't be OP with them, but the other 3 will. Not only are these cards OP, but they are won primarily through pure luck. That makes PvP more luck based, which is not good for it.
Post by: Absol on May 08, 2012, 12:49:51 am
Nice. Can someone post a comparation on old nymphs vs new nymphs to see how big of a buff it is? (on phone, can't check)
Finally nymph becomes viable now, not just a certain trophy.
Post by: Rutarete on May 08, 2012, 01:01:09 am
Upgraded turquoise nymph stats increased to 9/4
White nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgraded
Current:
Auburn 0/3 | 0/5
Grey 0/4 | 0/7
Queen 1/3 | 1/4
Blue 3/2 | 6/2
Turquoise 7/4 | 8/4
Light ?/? | 0/9 I need light nymph's unupped stats.
Update to 6/8 | 7/9:
Auburn +6/+5 (+6/+4 upgraded)
Grey +6/+4 (+7/+5 upgraded)
Queen +5/+5 (+6/+5 upgraded)
Blue +3/+6 (+1/+7 upgraded)
Other Nymph Stat Updates
Turquoise +0/+0 (+1/+0 upgraded)
Light +?/+? (+7/+0 upgraded)
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 01:04:27 am
5 Nymphs received huge buffs. Nymphs are won primarily through luck, which means lucky players have larger advantages than before. This makes a much bigger difference in PvP, where small advantages have a much bigger impact.These nymph buffs are pretty ridiculous. I now highly doubt that zanz prioritizes PvP over AI and Arena.
I don't follow the logic.
Basically, zanz is rewarding lucky players much more than before, which damages PvP. The only reason I see he would do this is to make people that spin Nymphs enjoy playing the AI more because their Nymphs are stronger.
Honestly, these are huge buffs.Auburn, Grey, Queen, and Blue Nymphs stats increased to 6/8 - 7/9 if upgraded
White nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgraded
Grey and White arguably won't be OP with them, but the other 3 will. Not only are these cards OP, but they are won primarily through pure luck. That makes PvP more luck based, which is not good for it.
Buffing the nymphs gives "lucky" players more options. That is true. However, unless one of the buffed nymphs forms a game-breaking deck, I don't follow how that makes PvP more luck based.
Post by: RootRanger on May 08, 2012, 01:10:55 am
Buffing the nymphs gives "lucky" players more options. That is true. However, unless one of the buffed nymphs forms a game-breaking deck, I don't follow how that makes PvP more luck based.Oh, please. If a deck using nymphs is even competitively viable, PvP becomes more luck based than if that deck is not competitively viable. The stronger that deck is, the more luck-based PvP becomes. Zanz is making Nymphs far stronger, which makes PvP more luck based, even if those decks aren't "game-breaking."
Post by: BluePriest on May 08, 2012, 01:15:45 am
Buffing the nymphs gives "lucky" players more options. That is true. However, unless one of the buffed nymphs forms a game-breaking deck, I don't follow how that makes PvP more luck based.Oh, please. If a deck using nymphs is even competitively viable, PvP becomes more luck based than if that deck is not competitively viable. The stronger that deck is, the more luck-based PvP becomes. Zanz is making Nymphs far stronger, which makes PvP more luck based, even if those decks aren't "game-breaking."
Its more of rewarding veteran players. PEople that log in and spin the oracle every day. If you have more Nymphs, chances are you have been playing longer. If youve been playing longer, then you deserve to have more rare cards. YEs, there will be people that managed to have 5 nymphs in 5 days, but those people are lucky, and outliers.
Meanwhile, you havent given any evidence to them being at all OP now. Set up offense before claiming its there.
Post by: RootRanger on May 08, 2012, 01:20:30 am
Its more of rewarding veteran players. PEople that log in and spin the oracle every day. If you have more Nymphs, chances are you have been playing longer. If youve been playing longer, then you deserve to have more rare cards. YEs, there will be people that managed to have 5 nymphs in 5 days, but those people are lucky, and outliers.Is that even any better? Do veterans deserve card advantages just because they have been here longer? They already have experience playing the game and more cards from grinding.
Meanwhile, you havent given any evidence to them being at all OP now. Set up offense before claiming its there.I stated that Nymphs significantly improved, not that they are OP. While I personally believe that two of them are OP, it is easier to argue that they are luck/veteran based and received a significant buff.
Post by: mesaprotector on May 08, 2012, 01:23:39 am
In general, though, I'm very happy about the changes. :death , :water , and to a lesser extent :light and :earth nymphs were just not usable. One more suggestion for a nymph buff: lower upped Red Nymph's skill cost to :fire :fire :fire . Otherwise there's very little point to upping it. ;)
Post by: Wizy on May 08, 2012, 01:28:03 am
Tell me that is not OP... it makes Shriekers look like crap.
Post by: furballdn on May 08, 2012, 01:29:48 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 08, 2012, 01:30:40 am
Post by: Onizuka on May 08, 2012, 01:42:46 am
Nymph Queen>Ice Dragon
Light nymph is arguably the equivalent of Golden Dragon.
Go nymphs that are as strong as dragons!
Post by: AP579 on May 08, 2012, 01:46:59 am
Life buff is OK. I don't like the aether nymph ATK increase...
Drop the increased stats please. Around 4|6, preferably.
Post by: Absol on May 08, 2012, 01:47:59 am
Either drop the stats increasement (preferable, reduce the buff) or raise the costs (will probably just make it harder to play)
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 02:07:55 am
Buffing the nymphs gives "lucky" players more options. That is true. However, unless one of the buffed nymphs forms a game-breaking deck, I don't follow how that makes PvP more luck based.Oh, please. If a deck using nymphs is even competitively viable, PvP becomes more luck based than if that deck is not competitively viable. The stronger that deck is, the more luck-based PvP becomes. Zanz is making Nymphs far stronger, which makes PvP more luck based, even if those decks aren't "game-breaking."
I see your definition of luck is applied much more broadly than mine. In that case, there's nothing I can say.
I will leave this quote from zanz (through teffy). Assuming he hasn't changed his stance since this post, it would appear that he is indeed intending on "increasing luck."
This here is one of zanz´s posts, which shows his opinion about nymphs a bit.[...]
9. Wait, didn't I create the nymphs to add rare, unusual cards that will promote deck variety in the first place?
In fact... you might expect more nymph-like cards in the future, cards that will do something that is already in the game, but in a different way. My goal is to have people actually creating their very own deck instead of everyone playing with the very same deck. That means that there is a price to pay: the chance that you will never get to have a specific card -ever- because it simply is too rare.
Post by: Newbiecake on May 08, 2012, 02:15:11 am
[...]
9. Wait, didn't I create the nymphs to add rare, unusual cards that will promote deck variety in the first place?
In fact... you might expect more nymph-like cards in the future, cards that will do something that is already in the game, but in a different way. My goal is to have people actually creating their very own deck instead of everyone playing with the very same deck. That means that there is a price to pay: the chance that you will never get to have a specific card -ever- because it simply is too rare.
Yeah, we should respect Zanz's view. I do like Nymph decks but they just weren't viable enough; now it's going to create some very interesting additions of decks. My vote on the Nymph buffs is strongly agree. :>
Post by: Newbiecake on May 08, 2012, 02:28:26 am
I think the Shard Golem is in need of a buff because it is so rarely used in any decks other than a deck based around purely Shards (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38943.msg483987.html#msg483987). Adding Shards to the Golem should also upgrade its ability. For example, you create a Shard Golem with 2 Shards of Freedom, 1 Shard of Wisdom, 1 Shard of Integrity, which will give it Queen (Tier 2 :air ability). Adding another Shard of Freedom (bringing the Golem to 3 SoFr, 1 SoW, 1 SoI) will give it Sniper (Tier 3 :air ability), or instead adding 2 Shards of Wisdom to give it Lobotomize (Tier 3 :aether ability) because it is now the dominant Shard type (3 SoW, 2 SoFr, 1 SoI).
What do you guys think?
Post by: zanzarino on May 08, 2012, 03:00:04 am
I simply want to see what nymphs can do, this is also supposed to be a good buff for water.
Please test them and the stats will be adjusted accordingly until decks based on nymphs are viable but not game-breaking.
7/9 for a water nymph, for instance, is clearly too much, please have fun making new decks and post in the beta decks area the best combos you can find.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 08, 2012, 03:08:34 am
I know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method. I don't know what you have planned for those trials, but I really look forward to them; they sound like a lot of fun! If you are dead set on leaving nymphs purely luck-based, perhaps a similar set of cards could be created that could be obtained only by mastering the trials.
Post by: furballdn on May 08, 2012, 03:09:49 am
Post by: zanzarino on May 08, 2012, 03:12:34 am
I know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method.
Use Nymph Tears.
Post by: BluePriest on May 08, 2012, 03:13:23 am
So much winI know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method.
Use Nymph Tears.
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 08, 2012, 03:14:11 am
This. So much of this.So much winI know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method.
Use Nymph Tears.
Post by: Newbiecake on May 08, 2012, 03:17:41 am
I know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method.
Use Nymph Tears.
Oh this made my day! Thanks Zanz and drag. XD
Post by: Tiko on May 08, 2012, 03:22:07 am
I know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method.
Use Nymph Tears.
Love it :]
Post by: RootRanger on May 08, 2012, 03:35:24 am
Use Nymph Tears.I'm sorry zanz, but Nymph Tears is a weak card compared to the actual Nymphs themselves. Nymph Tears is not only less card-efficient for almost as much quanta, but it requires usage of water, one of the worse elements. This means that players that want to use a certain type of nymph will have to duo with water, which will result in a larger amount of unused quanta simply because the deck would be a duo instead of a mono. If someone wants to use a certain type of nymph with a duo in another element, they would have to make that deck a trio with nymphs tears. Trios are so unreliable that they are rarely used competitively outside of Nova, Immolation, and Animate Weapon. Nymph Tears is simply not practical at all compared to nymphs. It's not even close.
I would imagine that the average Elements player would be excited about these nymph buffs; they'll get to use their nymphs in more decks and their nymphs will be stronger. But from a competitive player's viewpoint, these nymph buffs are causing harm to PvP. I realize that you can not please everyone, but hopefully the nymphs will be less overpowered in the end. Personally, I predict that the Earth and Air nymphs will be far too powerful with their buffed stats.
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 08, 2012, 03:36:22 am
Use Nymph Tears.I'm sorry zanz, but Nymph Tears is a weak card compared to the actual Nymphs themselves. Nymph Tears is not only less card-efficient for almost as much quanta, but it requires usage of water, one of the worse elements. This means that players that want to use a certain type of nymph will have to duo with water, which will result in a larger amount of unused quanta simply because the deck would be a duo instead of a mono. If someone wants to use a certain type of nymph with a duo in another element, they would have to make that deck a trio with nymphs tears. Trios are so unreliable that they are rarely used competitively outside of Nova, Immolation, and Animate Weapon. Nymph Tears is simply not practical at all compared to nymphs. It's not even close.
I would imagine that the average Elements player would be excited about these nymph buffs; they'll get to use their nymphs in more decks and their nymphs will be stronger. But from a competitive player's viewpoint, these nymph buffs are causing harm to PvP. I realize that you can not please everyone, but hopefully the nymphs will be less overpowered in the end. Personally, I predict that the Earth and Air nymphs will be far too powerful with their buffed stats.
Which is why he buffed Nymph Queen (?)
Post by: furballdn on May 08, 2012, 04:05:43 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 08, 2012, 04:19:27 am
I know you've said before you want nymphs to be purely luck-based from the oracle, but it would be nice if there were a way to obtain them via a skill-based method.
Use Nymph Tears.
This made me laugh too :) However, I don't think buying nymph's tears in the bazaar counts as skill-based.
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 08, 2012, 04:23:32 am
Post by: AP579 on May 08, 2012, 04:42:10 am
:rainbow : UnuppedStats/UppedStats AbilityCost
:aether : 7|4/8|4 3/3
:air : 3|5/5|5 3/3
:darkness : 3|5/5|5 2/2
:death : 5|6/6|7 1/1
:earth : 4|8/5|9 3/3
:entropy : 3|1/3|2 4/4
:fire : 1|6/1|7 3/3
:gravity : 1|3/1|4 4/3
:life : 3|6/3|7 2/2
:light : 4|8/5|9 3/2
:time : 6|8/7|9 2/1
:water : 2|6/3|7 4/4
All cost 8 except :entropy. Entropy is special.
I realize I made some changes, and random stuff, and took some of the old ones. I did it that for the completeness. But it's my opinion on how the nymphs should be balanced more.
Post by: BluePriest on May 08, 2012, 04:50:02 am
Love that he posts.
Im OCD sometimes though.... and he has 1 too many time symbols on the top, and 1 too little on the top (in the area above his name). It annoys me every time i see it
Post by: furballdn on May 08, 2012, 04:54:22 am
I love/hate seeing Zanz post.For me, sometimes it's like that, sometimes it's not and balanced. huh. I expected you to make some comment on the nymph changes.
Love that he posts.
Im OCD sometimes though.... and he has 1 too many time symbols on the top, and 1 too little on the top (in the area above his name). It annoys me every time i see it
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 08, 2012, 06:50:20 am
...sidenote: if this patch enters mid-war, Water will be glad to have kept some NTs in their Vault.
Post by: Annele on May 08, 2012, 07:40:21 am
It's just that Nymph Queen --> Water Nymph doesn't improve, it downgrades.
Post by: Pineapple on May 08, 2012, 10:25:53 am
If you're changing Nymphs, I was wondering if Water Nymph could be changed to Nymph Goddess or something similer?
It's just that Nymph Queen --> Water Nymph doesn't improve, it downgrades.
Make a name for all the other upgraded nymphs and then we'll get talking ^^
Post by: Cunning_Wish on May 08, 2012, 10:59:21 am
and Jezebel will become very powerful
Post by: majofa on May 08, 2012, 01:36:51 pm
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 08, 2012, 01:46:48 pm
Upgrading the Nymphs is good, but Nymph Queen doesn't need that much attack.Because everybody knows that Nymph Queen decks are dominant in pvp.
Post by: majofa on May 08, 2012, 01:49:52 pm
Auburn Nymph and Nymph Queen would be fine with 4-5 attack. Plus, I'm pretty sure I never said to keep its attack at 1.Upgrading the Nymphs is good, but Nymph Queen doesn't need that much attack.Because everybody knows that Nymph Queen decks are dominant in pvp.
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 08, 2012, 01:52:41 pm
Auburn Nymph is usable before-buff. I find it hard to have an use for Queen right now. Also, I don't see where the gigantic power would be in Queen.Auburn Nymph and Nymph Queen would be fine with 4-5 attack. Plus, I'm pretty sure I never said to keep its attack at 1.Upgrading the Nymphs is good, but Nymph Queen doesn't need that much attack.Because everybody knows that Nymph Queen decks are dominant in pvp.
Post by: majofa on May 08, 2012, 02:10:31 pm
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 08, 2012, 02:42:38 pm
Yes, Auburn Nymph is definitely the worser of the two and should probably have no more than 3 attack... Nymph Queen needs more than 1 attack, I'm just saying 6 is too high. Also, I liked the other buff ideas for Nymph Queen, ones that were related to the other nymphs in play.I don't understand why would 6 be so high for nymph queen.
Post by: Tiko on May 08, 2012, 02:45:00 pm
About the other Nymphs: Most of them really deserved the stat boost, the only concern I have is maybe the Auburn and the Blue one. They already have (one of ) the most powerful abilities, and their stats make them almost insane now. My personal opinion is that the Blue was fine the way she was (upgraded she had a nice attack boost anyway), but right now she can survive 8/9 (!) UGs by herself which is more like an overkill now. For the Auburn I have no solution, but she is (almost) similarly extreme with her toughness paired up with her creature lockdown capabilities.
Also, why is that, when the often noted 'worst element' recieves something many of you cry out in panic about how powerful it will become? Just look at the first few pages of the Flooding topic..
..and another thing: how the hell all this could do *any* harm to PvP?!
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 08, 2012, 03:26:19 pm
Auburn buff is a bit too much, perhaps.
As for Queen, it's simple: FFQ costs 6 quanta and for 2 off-element quanta produces a 3 atk critter. Nymph Queen would cost the same through in-element NT but has 3 more attack, and for 2 more quanta and one quanta producer she doesn't just create another creature, but a copy of herself. So double the punch of Firefly Queen, spawning way faster, and in a mono to boot. I think it's a bit too much. I agree it doesn't solve Water's problems, but it is a bit unbalanced. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much.
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 03:57:01 pm
I like Blue buff, it makes the damsel in distress deck worth it even without Quint. And Quint slows that deck down to nothingness. Using her alongside other Air creatures is fine IMO.
Auburn buff is a bit too much, perhaps.
As for Queen, it's simple: FFQ costs 6 quanta and for 2 off-element quanta produces a 3 atk critter. Nymph Queen would cost the same through in-element NT but has 3 more attack, and for 2 more quanta and one quanta producer she doesn't just create another creature, but a copy of herself. So double the punch of Firefly Queen, spawning way faster, and in a mono to boot. I think it's a bit too much. I agree it doesn't solve Water's problems, but it is a bit unbalanced. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much.
I think testing is the only way to determine how good the queen is now. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much, but we're talking about losing a lot of quanta producers (for a lot of queens, yes). Unless you can say for certain that the impact is linearly related, you can't say for certain that the queen is now OP compared to firefly queen (or pharaoh, which by the way, seems easier to compare to since it is also a mono card).
Post by: Poker Alho on May 08, 2012, 04:24:01 pm
I like Blue buff, it makes the damsel in distress deck worth it even without Quint. And Quint slows that deck down to nothingness. Using her alongside other Air creatures is fine IMO.
Auburn buff is a bit too much, perhaps.
As for Queen, it's simple: FFQ costs 6 quanta and for 2 off-element quanta produces a 3 atk critter. Nymph Queen would cost the same through in-element NT but has 3 more attack, and for 2 more quanta and one quanta producer she doesn't just create another creature, but a copy of herself. So double the punch of Firefly Queen, spawning way faster, and in a mono to boot. I think it's a bit too much. I agree it doesn't solve Water's problems, but it is a bit unbalanced. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much.
I think testing is the only way to determine how good the queen is now. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much, but we're talking about losing a lot of quanta producers (for a lot of queens, yes). Unless you can say for certain that the impact is linearly related, you can't say for certain that the queen is now OP compared to firefly queen (or pharaoh, which by the way, seems easier to compare to since it is also a mono card).
also take in account the only reliable :water producers are pillars, pendulums and your mark, so after you blow some pillars up, you may start having trouble producing :water for the rest of your deck
Post by: RootRanger on May 08, 2012, 04:33:41 pm
..and another thing: how the hell all this could do *any* harm to PvP?!
5 Nymphs received huge buffs. Nymphs are won primarily through luck, which means lucky players have larger advantages than before. This makes a much bigger difference in PvP, where small advantages have a much bigger impact.These nymph buffs are pretty ridiculous. I now highly doubt that zanz prioritizes PvP over AI and Arena.
I don't follow the logic.
Basically, zanz is rewarding lucky players much more than before, which damages PvP. The only reason I see he would do this is to make people that spin Nymphs enjoy playing the AI more because their Nymphs are stronger.
Honestly, these are huge buffs.Auburn, Grey, Queen, and Blue Nymphs stats increased to 6/8 - 7/9 if upgraded
White nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgraded
Grey and White arguably won't be OP with them, but the other 3 will. Not only are these cards OP, but they are won primarily through pure luck. That makes PvP more luck based, which is not good for it.
Buffing the nymphs gives "lucky" players more options. That is true. However, unless one of the buffed nymphs forms a game-breaking deck, I don't follow how that makes PvP more luck based.Oh, please. If a deck using nymphs is even competitively viable, PvP becomes more luck based than if that deck is not competitively viable. The stronger that deck is, the more luck-based PvP becomes. Zanz is making Nymphs far stronger, which makes PvP more luck based, even if those decks aren't "game-breaking."
Maybe I should start quoting my entire argument whenever I post something to prevent people from askingthese kinds of questions as often.
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 05:03:10 pm
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 08, 2012, 05:16:32 pm
I like Blue buff, it makes the damsel in distress deck worth it even without Quint. And Quint slows that deck down to nothingness. Using her alongside other Air creatures is fine IMO.
Auburn buff is a bit too much, perhaps.
As for Queen, it's simple: FFQ costs 6 quanta and for 2 off-element quanta produces a 3 atk critter. Nymph Queen would cost the same through in-element NT but has 3 more attack, and for 2 more quanta and one quanta producer she doesn't just create another creature, but a copy of herself. So double the punch of Firefly Queen, spawning way faster, and in a mono to boot. I think it's a bit too much. I agree it doesn't solve Water's problems, but it is a bit unbalanced. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much.
I think testing is the only way to determine how good the queen is now. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much, but we're talking about losing a lot of quanta producers (for a lot of queens, yes). Unless you can say for certain that the impact is linearly related, you can't say for certain that the queen is now OP compared to firefly queen (or pharaoh, which by the way, seems easier to compare to since it is also a mono card).
Which makes it a card that is good to be splashed and works as a finisher, stall breaker and similar. Just like Pharaoh, but better. If losing too many pillars is a problem, create four queens (they hit like a truck regardless), stall for a bit, then double them in a turn for the finish. Really, it's an AWESOME card on multiple levels, not as a whole deck but as an addition to other, normal decks.
Post by: ralouf on May 08, 2012, 05:17:38 pm
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 05:34:24 pm
I like Blue buff, it makes the damsel in distress deck worth it even without Quint. And Quint slows that deck down to nothingness. Using her alongside other Air creatures is fine IMO.
Auburn buff is a bit too much, perhaps.
As for Queen, it's simple: FFQ costs 6 quanta and for 2 off-element quanta produces a 3 atk critter. Nymph Queen would cost the same through in-element NT but has 3 more attack, and for 2 more quanta and one quanta producer she doesn't just create another creature, but a copy of herself. So double the punch of Firefly Queen, spawning way faster, and in a mono to boot. I think it's a bit too much. I agree it doesn't solve Water's problems, but it is a bit unbalanced. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much.
I think testing is the only way to determine how good the queen is now. Losing a quanta producer is not worth that much, but we're talking about losing a lot of quanta producers (for a lot of queens, yes). Unless you can say for certain that the impact is linearly related, you can't say for certain that the queen is now OP compared to firefly queen (or pharaoh, which by the way, seems easier to compare to since it is also a mono card).
Which makes it a card that is good to be splashed and works as a finisher, stall breaker and similar. Just like Pharaoh, but better. If losing too many pillars is a problem, create four queens (they hit like a truck regardless), stall for a bit, then double them in a turn for the finish. Really, it's an AWESOME card on multiple levels, not as a whole deck but as an addition to other, normal decks.
4 queens. Doubling them requires four towers and 16 :water quanta. And I'm going to assume that at least 2 of the 4 initial nymphs also come from towers. So 6 towers, lots of :water quanta. Chances are, you're probably going mono water then. In that case, you're also probably not playing much of anything else.
In the meantime, the opponent will play his cards. Damage, shields, cc, whatever.
I'm not saying that the queen isn't OP now. I'm just saying it's not obvious whether it is or not. In your particular example, I don't even think pharaoh/firefly queen are good comparisons. A better comparison would be with something like fire/life rush, since that is the deck style.
Post by: Atico on May 08, 2012, 05:44:42 pm
Problem with Queen is in skill which isn't so useful. Now it can generate creature with 7 attack for 4 :water + pillar, so cost is high but now it looks much better than creating 1|4 creature.
Probably only Auburn Nymph shouldn't get this change. It is CC card, so Player should have a chance to avoid this effect. Nymphs with skill using against opponent have a low stats (like Purple or Gravity). The same should be with Auburn. Problem is then with Grey, but here I think that problem is in skill, not in stats. Grey Nymph has got poor effect. It is much better and faster to use Aflatoxin than Nymph. GreyNymph should have Poison effect.
Post by: Higurashi on May 08, 2012, 05:55:11 pm
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 08, 2012, 07:42:13 pm
4 queens. Doubling them requires four towers and 16 :water quanta. And I'm going to assume that at least 2 of the 4 initial nymphs also come from towers. So 6 towers, lots of :water quanta. Chances are, you're probably going mono water then. In that case, you're also probably not playing much of anything else.
In the meantime, the opponent will play his cards. Damage, shields, cc, whatever.
I'm not saying that the queen isn't OP now. I'm just saying it's not obvious whether it is or not. In your particular example, I don't even think pharaoh/firefly queen are good comparisons. A better comparison would be with something like fire/life rush, since that is the deck style.
Take any Water-based deck. War decks in particular. They have lots of Water Pillars and Pendulums. Splash in two NTs. Now you have a reliable offensive that can either work as a standalone mid-range hitter or multiply itself late game for heavy damage (and late game quanta is not an issue. More a liability)
Post by: Higurashi on May 08, 2012, 07:43:29 pm
Post by: inspector on May 08, 2012, 07:59:09 pm
Now I'd really really love a way to trade nymphs, either between players or even do something as simple as letting us exchange 2 identical nymphs for 1 of choice.
Testing a mono :water in trainer now, got 4 wins and 2 losses vs FGs so far. I'd never expect a swarm of 7|8 nymphs to be that good!
Post by: Atico on May 08, 2012, 08:05:31 pm
That's actually a proposed buff for Afla/Grey Nymph. Allow targeting HP for 2 Poison. It'd be expensive use of Afla, but that's not the point. The idea is that you could actually put the unnecessary extra copies of Afla to use if you plan on using that strategy. 'Course, Grey Nymph would need an ability cost increase if that happened. Considering its high HP, I'd say 3 :death. If its HP was lowered, 2 :death would be fine.
I proposed the same change in Aflatoxin topic but people said that 6 :death for 2 poison is not to worth change. Aflatoxin has got problem, because this skill is usfeul only when You have 1-2 uses of this. Antimatter is useful more and always. Allowing targeting HP might help for this card.
Post by: Jenkar on May 08, 2012, 08:06:20 pm
..and another thing: how the hell all this could do *any* harm to PvP?!
Very simple.
Say, i have more nymphs than you, because i offer babies to the oracle every day. I now have a bigger choice of decks versus you, simply because i have luck spinning the wheel. The decks do not need to be OP to give me an advantage, they just need to not be UP. They can also work as strong additions in existent decks. Take monolight, popular BL deck. When i add white nymphs, i gain :
- A stable, CC resistant creature that hits hard
- With an ability that gives me HP (good for a stall, which monolight is)
- With an ability that gives me more quantum generation (as if solar shield wasn't enough to bodyslam denial)
A player without those has a weaker monolight. Hence, is at a disadvantage. And that's just modding, making new decks using those gives you an advantage through more options (versatility), based on luck, and less importantly, veteranship.
Post by: RRQJ on May 08, 2012, 10:32:49 pm
4 queens. Doubling them requires four towers and 16 :water quanta. And I'm going to assume that at least 2 of the 4 initial nymphs also come from towers. So 6 towers, lots of :water quanta. Chances are, you're probably going mono water then. In that case, you're also probably not playing much of anything else.
In the meantime, the opponent will play his cards. Damage, shields, cc, whatever.
I'm not saying that the queen isn't OP now. I'm just saying it's not obvious whether it is or not. In your particular example, I don't even think pharaoh/firefly queen are good comparisons. A better comparison would be with something like fire/life rush, since that is the deck style.
Take any Water-based deck. War decks in particular. They have lots of Water Pillars and Pendulums. Splash in two NTs. Now you have a reliable offensive that can either work as a standalone mid-range hitter or multiply itself late game for heavy damage (and late game quanta is not an issue. More a liability)
You're giving examples that show water is now stronger than before; the question is do they show that NT is now OP relatively to all the other cards in the game?
If it isn't OP, then it sounds like that's a good thing. People have kept emphasizing on fire not getting something powerful because "fire is powerful enough already." Nobody claims the same thing for water. If NT becomes an "upper tier water card" because of this and but doesn't define the metagame, I don't see the problem.
For aflatoxin, what if creature poison damage occurs at the end of the opposing player's turn, similar to player poison? Obviously that would affect other infection cards, but I think they need it. Right now, infection in general has too long of a delay in impact.
Post by: Chapuz on May 08, 2012, 11:05:51 pm
Post by: majofa on May 08, 2012, 11:10:40 pm
Just tested a deck I have in the beta decks: 6 tears, 6 SoR, 9 pilars and pends. Not OP at all, lost more than half of the FGs. It has tones of weaknesses: mutation, rewind, PC on pilars, etc....vs FGs?? lol
Post by: furballdn on May 08, 2012, 11:26:06 pm
Post by: Zaealix on May 09, 2012, 12:14:11 am
While I hear your argument concerning monolight, I'm of the opinion that Monolight is not a good choice for beginners. Not only is the white Nymph a rare card, but also the extremely powerful Miracle. The more rares an element has, the more difficult it is to pick up and play, in comparison to an element that does not have rares, due to the abilities that require luck and skill to aquire...and another thing: how the hell all this could do *any* harm to PvP?!
Very simple.
Say, i have more nymphs than you, because i offer babies to the oracle every day. I now have a bigger choice of decks versus you, simply because i have luck spinning the wheel. The decks do not need to be OP to give me an advantage, they just need to not be UP. They can also work as strong additions in existent decks. Take monolight, popular BL deck. When i add white nymphs, i gain :
- A stable, CC resistant creature that hits hard
- With an ability that gives me HP (good for a stall, which monolight is)
- With an ability that gives me more quantum generation (as if solar shield wasn't enough to bodyslam denial)
A player without those has a weaker monolight. Hence, is at a disadvantage. And that's just modding, making new decks using those gives you an advantage through more options (versatility), based on luck, and less importantly, veteranship.
Fire, for example, I'd call a mid-level, as while it has expensive specialty cards in the form of Phoenix and Seraph, these cards can be gained from the bazaar. Whereas Miracle must be won through sheer luck, as it does not appear in bazaar.
In theory, one who fights long enough COULD get pretty much any card, it's just a matter of time it takes to get that particular card as opposed to another.
Post by: Jenkar on May 09, 2012, 12:18:40 am
Post by: zanzarino on May 09, 2012, 01:13:35 am
I am going to ignore the following type of "feedback":
The grey nymph is now absolutely, positively OP and I base that on absolutely nothing (test first)
The grey nymph should have the ability completely changed: it should now decapitate the closest creature on the left of the third non-light creature (it is hard enough to balance cards without re-designing the card every time)
I do not care about giving feedback but I know that my card idea "Rabid Smurf" absolutely needs to be included in ver. 1.31 (there is a card ideas and a suggestions area in the forum)
I value the following type of feedback:
In this particular deck the grey nymph has a %win against FG of 85%.
In this other particular deck the grey nymph has a 3ttw average.
Have fun.
Post by: majofa on May 09, 2012, 01:19:43 am
(Jokes aside... you should make the unupped's name White Nymph)
Post by: zanzarino on May 09, 2012, 01:26:21 am
How about, "There is no card named White Nymph." ??
(Jokes aside... you should make the unupped's name White Nymph)
Fixed OP
Post by: majofa on May 09, 2012, 01:35:04 am
Not so much its attack, but its defense. It's nearly impossible to kill and can easily handle 6 creatures by itself.
Suggestions:
4/4, 5/5
-Makes it a little more killable and it still has good attack.
Post by: AP579 on May 09, 2012, 01:44:03 am
Post by: Rutarete on May 09, 2012, 01:56:27 am
Upgraded turquoise nymph stats increased to 8/5
Light Nymph stats increased to 6/9 - 7/9 if upgraded
Nymph Queen stats increased to 5/6 - 6/7 if upgraded
Auburn Nymph stats increased to 4/8 - 5/9 if upgraded
Grey Nymph stats increased to 7/8 - 8/9 if upgraded
Blue Nymph stats increased to 6/5 - 7/6 if upgraded
Current:
Auburn 0/3 | 0/5
Grey 0/4 | 0/7
Queen 1/3 | 1/4
Blue 3/2 | 6/2
Turquoise 7/4 | 8/4
Light 1/6 | 1/9
Update:
Auburn +4/+5 (+5/+4 upgraded)
Grey +7/+4 (+8/+2 upgraded)
Queen +4/+3 (+5/+3 upgraded)
Blue +3/+3 (+1/+4 upgraded)
Other Nymph Stat Updates
Turquoise +0/+0 (+0/+1 upgraded)
Light +5/+0 (+6/+0 upgraded)
Post by: moomoose on May 09, 2012, 01:57:23 am
(http://i.imgur.com/Uhdf9.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/kQkwl.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Post by: BluePriest on May 09, 2012, 01:59:19 am
"White nymph is OP because its a super rare card and it will completly imbalance pvp"
ok?
Post by: Wizy on May 09, 2012, 02:01:42 am
Light 0?/6? | 0/9 I need light nymph's unupped stats.
+5/+0 +6/+0
Post by: Rutarete on May 09, 2012, 02:46:14 am
Thanks. I updated my post.Light 0?/6? | 0/9 I need light nymph's unupped stats.
+5/+0 +6/+0
Post by: moomoose on May 09, 2012, 04:57:08 am
Post by: Cunning_Wish on May 09, 2012, 09:00:32 am
others are OK
High defance is difficult to kill,so it can create more nymph
creature kill should can work for this
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 09, 2012, 01:37:47 pm
I think Water nymph should Neff.have 4 or 5 defance is goodSacrificing a pillar each time is already not enough?
others are OK
High defance is difficult to kill,so it can create more nymph
creature kill should can work for this
Also, the small stat lowering now was completely un-needed.
Post by: Zaealix on May 09, 2012, 02:11:43 pm
Hum, you do realise this post was about pvp, ay?Yes. As far as I can tell, the biggest controversy about Nymphs being strong, or even viable in PvP is the rarity. If one could simply go out and buy one, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
The fact that you need to get lucky with the oracle to get a Nymph, is the main reason Nymphs are so rare.
As far as my thoughts concerning card rarity and how much it affect element power, is thus: Let's say a mono element deck, needs to have X or Y card to win. X card is readily availible, but Y is a rare. Now, let's assume mono element deck based on X card has different strengths and weaknesses than mono deck based on Y card. Basically, a newcomer wanting to do a mono element deck would have to base it on X card. Whereas someone who's been playing a while could do a X or Y deck.
Then again, maybe I'm outdated as all get out for thinking mono element decks are viable, and need to learn duos and rainbow building eh?
Post by: RRQJ on May 09, 2012, 03:48:37 pm
Hum, you do realise this post was about pvp, ay?Yes. As far as I can tell, the biggest controversy about Nymphs being strong, or even viable in PvP is the rarity. If one could simply go out and buy one, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
The fact that you need to get lucky with the oracle to get a Nymph, is the main reason Nymphs are so rare.
As far as my thoughts concerning card rarity and how much it affect element power, is thus: Let's say a mono element deck, needs to have X or Y card to win. X card is readily availible, but Y is a rare. Now, let's assume mono element deck based on X card has different strengths and weaknesses than mono deck based on Y card. Basically, a newcomer wanting to do a mono element deck would have to base it on X card. Whereas someone who's been playing a while could do a X or Y deck.
Then again, maybe I'm outdated as all get out for thinking mono element decks are viable, and need to learn duos and rainbow building eh?
Unless I'm misunderstanding, you just repeated his argument with different words.
As for the issue, I already posted a quote a few pages back, but it would appear that zanz intends on increasing this particular "luck" factor. Saying that "increasing luck is bad" and explaining why the nymph buff increases luck won't do anything. Anyone who opposes this buff because "it increases luck" will need to explain (to zanz) why increasing luck is bad, and probably more specifically, why they think the amount of luck generated from this is significant compared to the luck already involved in the game.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 09, 2012, 04:25:47 pm
As for the issue, I already posted a quote a few pages back, but it would appear that zanz intends on increasing this particular "luck" factor. Saying that "increasing luck is bad" and explaining why the nymph buff increases luck won't do anything. Anyone who opposes this buff because "it increases luck" will need to explain (to zanz) why increasing luck is bad, and probably more specifically, why they think the amount of luck generated from this is significant compared to the luck already involved in the game.
If Zanz does plan on increasing the chances to get a nymph, either at the oracle, or by giving ways to earn them, I wouldn't mind the nymph changes nearly so much, although I've seen no evidence Zanz plans to do this, unless it will be incorporated into the trials he posted about a few months back. I still think the earth, and to a lesser degree, the light and water nymphs got buffed too much, but I can't offer any solid proof beyond 18 years of CCG experience. (and I could be just making that up, though I'm not :p)
Post by: BluePriest on May 09, 2012, 04:30:29 pm
realize zanz understand that many people dont like the oracle being the only way of getting nymphs and get over it (or at least stop spamming this thread with QQs about it).
???
Profit
???
Profit
Post by: RRQJ on May 09, 2012, 05:15:07 pm
As for the issue, I already posted a quote a few pages back, but it would appear that zanz intends on increasing this particular "luck" factor. Saying that "increasing luck is bad" and explaining why the nymph buff increases luck won't do anything. Anyone who opposes this buff because "it increases luck" will need to explain (to zanz) why increasing luck is bad, and probably more specifically, why they think the amount of luck generated from this is significant compared to the luck already involved in the game.
If Zanz does plan on increasing the chances to get a nymph, either at the oracle, or by giving ways to earn them, I wouldn't mind the nymph changes nearly so much, although I've seen no evidence Zanz plans to do this, unless it will be incorporated into the trials he posted about a few months back. I still think the earth, and to a lesser degree, the light and water nymphs got buffed too much, but I can't offer any solid proof beyond 18 years of CCG experience. (and I could be just making that up, though I'm not :p)
"Nymphs are too rare; they shouldn't be buffed" is purely an opinion/preference. From zanz's perspective, it holds zero weight. All I'm saying is that you'll either have to accept it (even if you don't like it) or come up with a more objective argument if you want to convince zanz that your way is better.
And I don't see how the light and water nymphs got buffed too much (arguments can be made for earth). I don't have 18 years of experience, but I'm not just going to accept that as proof. Based on zanz's last post, he probably won't either.
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on May 10, 2012, 03:06:58 am
*Edit* On a more serious note, this new picture (while being lovely) does not look like a pufferfish! Maybe it looks a bit more like a toadfish though, whatever that is =)
Quote from: RE: NYMPH BUFF
I still think the earth, and to a lesser degree, the light and water nymphs got buffed too much
--- "Nymphs are too rare; they shouldn't be buffed"
I could be mistaken but isn't White Nymph kind of crap? I can at least see a purpose for the Auburn Nymph as it is, even though no-one has enough to really build a deck -around- them. But whenever I've tried to use the White Nymph, I always think he's just too weak on attack to be so expensive.
Post by: furballdn on May 10, 2012, 03:16:15 am
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 10, 2012, 03:17:09 am
Quote from: RE: NYMPH BUFFI still think the earth, and to a lesser degree, the light and water nymphs got buffed too much
--- "Nymphs are too rare; they shouldn't be buffed"
I could be mistaken but isn't White Nymph kind of crap? I can at least see a purpose for the Auburn Nymph as it is, even though no-one has enough to really build a deck -around- them. But whenever I've tried to use the White Nymph, I always think he's just too weak on attack to be so expensive.
Light Nymph got buffed to 6/9. And it still heals 10 HP with Luciferin.
Post by: Jenkar on May 10, 2012, 06:30:21 am
I got an idea! Its GENIUS! 3 Steps only.I like how spam = one post.realize zanz understand that many people dont like the oracle being the only way of getting nymphs and get over it (or at least stop spamming this thread with QQs about it).
???
Profit
Post by: Xanins on May 10, 2012, 09:29:10 am
Quote
Shard of focus HP reduced to 1
Shard of focus turns into a black hole when HP>45
Upgraded shard of focus cost increased to 6
Upgraded shard of focus generates upgraded black holes
- Shard of focus turns into a black hole only when the accretion skill is activated
Okay, so, after searching the topic for info about SoF, I didn't find what I was looking for. So, here are my questions:
-Does SoF gain HP and become a BH right when you click on it, or can you click it, cancel the skill, and still gain HP, or does only using the skill (destroying something) cause SoF to gain HP and then turn into a BH?
-If SoF only turns into a BH upon the activation of its skill, does that mean that HP boosting spells can't kill it?..
Post by: Jenkar on May 10, 2012, 10:23:21 am
1stQuoteShard of focus HP reduced to 1
Shard of focus turns into a black hole when HP>45
Upgraded shard of focus cost increased to 6
Upgraded shard of focus generates upgraded black holes
- Shard of focus turns into a black hole only when the accretion skill is activated
Okay, so, after searching the topic for info about SoF, I didn't find what I was looking for. So, here are my questions:
-Does SoF gain HP and become a BH right when you click on it, or can you click it, cancel the skill, and still gain HP, or does only using the skill (destroying something) cause SoF to gain HP and then turn into a BH?
-If SoF only turns into a BH upon the activation of its skill, does that mean that HP boosting spells can't kill it?..Yes, however hp boosting spells can reduce the number of activations that SoF can have (ie, if you play a Basilisk Blood on a SoF, it has 21HP. When it stops being delayed, it has 2 activations left (21+15 => 36, +15 = 51>45))
Post by: BluePriest on May 10, 2012, 12:38:38 pm
I got an idea! Its GENIUS! 3 Steps only.I like how spam = one post.realize zanz understand that many people dont like the oracle being the only way of getting nymphs and get over it (or at least stop spamming this thread with QQs about it).
???
Profit
Not referring to just you. A combination of different people doing it
Post by: Jenkar on May 10, 2012, 01:01:39 pm
TL;DR : we're not complaining about the way nymphs are gotten, but about the fact that there is a significant advantage by having them.
Post by: RRQJ on May 10, 2012, 04:45:17 pm
The way I see it, if the nymphs are OP, then the "significant advantage" would be fairly obvious. If they aren't, then I don't see the "significant advantage," and I ask for an explanation from those who think otherwise.
Post by: Jenkar on May 10, 2012, 04:48:50 pm
The way I see it, if the nymphs are OP, then the "significant advantage" would be fairly obvious.Nothing about the opness here. Versality, more options that are actually viable is a significant advantage. This is true for any card who is not up.
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 10, 2012, 04:50:05 pm
I understand that more versatility equals more advantage, but what's with "significant advantage" being constantly thrown around? That's the one problem I have with the entire argument. The buffed nymphs have, up until now, always been on the (very) weak side, so nobody can draw on any meaningful past experiences for support. The closest you can come to is drawing on the experience from purple/amber nymphs, since these buffs appear to try and get all nymphs on a similar playing level to those two. Yet, I don't recall any similar argument ever popping up for those two.
The way I see it, if the nymphs are OP, then the "significant advantage" would be fairly obvious. If they aren't, then I don't see the "significant advantage," and I ask for an explanation from those who think otherwise.
Having purple nymphs for monoentropy is actually quite good in some restricted PvP formats. Ask 10 men he's used them quite a few times.
EDIT: Not to mention Time nymphs in War. Blue Nymphs with this buff are a very strong asset for Team Air, Light Nymphs will see much much more use, not to mention Auburns...
I'm not saying this is bad, just that it is a real advantage.
Post by: RRQJ on May 10, 2012, 06:04:45 pm
"The buffed nymphs give an real advantage, that's obvious. Versatility is better than no versatility."
"However, I don't think the buffed nymphs give a significant advantage."
Please explain why I'm wrong about the latter. If it supposed to be obvious, I don't see it. If a large majority of people find it obvious, then the problem is me; everyone can just move on and discuss whatever. Based on the responses within this thread, however, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on May 11, 2012, 01:19:09 am
Now we need Cockatrice art.
Post by: Xanins on May 11, 2012, 07:48:37 am
So, no love for the Amber/ Gravity Nymphs? D;
Post by: Calindu on May 11, 2012, 08:29:07 am
Thank you for answering my questions, Jenkar. :3It's already very good.
So, no love for the Amber/ Gravity Nymphs? D;
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 11, 2012, 12:51:38 pm
Thank you for answering my questions, Jenkar. :3
So, no love for the Amber/ Gravity Nymphs? D;
It's the best one already :) Of the ones I own, I use the gravity and entropy ones the most by far, and they have low att/def values.
Post by: dspn23 on May 13, 2012, 04:24:09 pm
the rest deserve the buff as for this ones... i'm not shure.
but can't say it is terrible or anything like that cause nimphs are suposed to be ultrarares for some reason...
and they will not be used many times.
Post by: zanzarino on May 13, 2012, 10:15:50 pm
Post by: Xenocidius on May 13, 2012, 10:24:01 pm
Post by: zanzarino on May 13, 2012, 10:26:10 pm
Edit: now online.
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 13, 2012, 10:36:18 pm
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 13, 2012, 10:38:11 pm
Post by: justaburd on May 13, 2012, 10:41:51 pm
thanks vrt and pepo!
Post by: Shantu on May 13, 2012, 10:45:59 pm
1.31 is about to go live. If you know something terrible about this version say it now or forever hold your peace.
Something terrible?
It has no graboid nerf!
Apart from that, yay for frequent updates! Keeps the game fresh.
Post by: Chapuz on May 13, 2012, 10:50:10 pm
Small, more frequent patches ftw.Absolutely! Can't wait to see more awsome ideas from Armory in the game :D
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 13, 2012, 10:51:03 pm
Post by: zanzarino on May 13, 2012, 11:20:24 pm
Post by: Naesala on May 13, 2012, 11:29:24 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on May 13, 2012, 11:35:48 pm
Post by: burpcow on May 13, 2012, 11:41:37 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 13, 2012, 11:45:46 pm
I love the new devourer art!It made me defect to :darkness for the time being. Thank you vrt!
Post by: glennfoo on May 14, 2012, 02:00:26 am
Post by: Wizy on May 14, 2012, 03:51:57 am
Edit: The forum images are now updated, this serves now as a what-they-are rather than a what-they-were ;P
Post by: Xamuel on May 14, 2012, 05:02:10 am
Great work, the new art is fantastic! Loving the new frequent small updates, that's how updates are meant to be. All hail Zanz the genius, all hail the amazing artists in this community
Now if only I had more nymphs 8)
Post by: Annele on May 14, 2012, 05:24:42 am
I log in to check on my arena deck... see the devourer art in the first place bronze league... that sound you hear is my jaw hitting the floor
Great work, the new art is fantastic! Loving the new frequent small updates, that's how updates are meant to be. All hail Zanz the genius, all hail the amazing artists in this community
^^^ Agreed, but it is "All hail Zanzarino the god!".
Post by: Aneninen on May 14, 2012, 06:47:23 am
Post by: sammybrahh on May 14, 2012, 06:50:58 am
The new card images are simply awesome!
I was actually writing the exact same words when I saw this ^^
For me, sapphire charger is the one that really looks scary :D
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on May 14, 2012, 08:16:36 am
Post by: sammybrahh on May 14, 2012, 08:30:56 am
By the way, anyone knows what happened with Psion? I looked into the bazaar and there was no Psion. Is he going to be introduced or not, does anyone know?
Psion is coming once everyone has downloaded the update, probably in less than a few days
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on May 14, 2012, 08:52:20 am
Bug fix:Just tried out a nasty case of unupgraded Virus + Soul Catcher: still desynchs.
- cancelling a creature ability should not cause desynch anymore
Sacrifice two Virusses but don't let them infect anything and place two mummies in their stead.(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22265805/cancync1.png)
Animation first shows Mummies appearing extra (creature slots 3 and 4), then the Virussed magically dissappear, the mummies taking their place and a desynch icon appearing. It's correctly corrected, but it still desynchs :p
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22265806/cancync2.png)
And yes, this is in 1.31
Animation first shows Mummies appearing extra (creature slots 3 and 4), then the Virussed magically dissappear, the mummies taking their place and a desynch icon appearing. It's correctly corrected, but it still desynchs :p
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22265806/cancync2.png)
Post by: Scaramanga on May 14, 2012, 11:41:09 am
I love the new arts :)
Post by: glennfoo on May 14, 2012, 07:19:42 pm
Post by: TheAccuso on May 14, 2012, 09:10:49 pm
Post by: AP579 on May 14, 2012, 11:03:26 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on May 14, 2012, 11:09:00 pm
I don't think you need to put whether you won the card or not in the information next to the oracle now.
^this
i went to the oracle today and when i heard that noise and saw that text i almost thought i got another nymph lol (turns out it was a scarab ._. )
Post by: furballdn on May 14, 2012, 11:12:41 pm
I had the feeling too! Except, I did get a nymph!I don't think you need to put whether you won the card or not in the information next to the oracle now.
^this
i went to the oracle today and when i heard that noise and saw that text i almost thought i got another nymph lol (turns out it was a scarab ._. )
Post by: Poker Alho on May 14, 2012, 11:25:14 pm
I had the feeling too! Except, I did get a nymph!I don't think you need to put whether you won the card or not in the information next to the oracle now.
^this
i went to the oracle today and when i heard that noise and saw that text i almost thought i got another nymph lol (turns out it was a scarab ._. )
lucky bastard xD. I dont think i'll be able to handle the drama everytime i go to the oracle thinking for just a brief moment that i just won a nymph :P
Post by: glennfoo on May 15, 2012, 12:31:32 am
Post by: Lex on May 15, 2012, 11:10:24 am
Post by: teffy on May 15, 2012, 11:11:18 am
Post by: Absol on May 15, 2012, 11:41:35 am
Psion is ingame. Cool.Already?!
*reloads client*
Post by: Jenkar on May 15, 2012, 11:50:24 am
New art is... meh... especially devourer - what is that? really? How can I change to previous picture?Can't. A creature transforming quantum from other elements into darkness. 3rd best art in game IMO.
Post by: Lex on May 15, 2012, 01:01:08 pm
Can't. A creature transforming quantum from other elements into darkness. 3rd best art in game IMO.It seems like we have quite different taste. Well, I work with graphics a lot so it could be "just not my style", but after looking at new images the only one which is "good enough" is pufferfish (and maybe maybe firefly queen) - both made by pepokish?. Rest (made by vrt?) is much much worse than their predecessors as they look much much "blurrier" and maybe they look good as bigger one but in game they just do not fit to be displayed on such small "card window".
Post by: Zso_Zso on May 15, 2012, 01:07:23 pm
Post by: Nepycros on May 15, 2012, 01:31:37 pm
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 15, 2012, 01:36:05 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 15, 2012, 04:11:11 pm
Sad to see not the much needed PC for Water coming.
Water still has more PC than some elements :) Ice bolt can freeze weapons sometimes. Granted, that's barely anything, but it's more than life or light get.
As the game expands, things will get better. Double the number of cards ingame (which will take months if not years) and the metagame will grow exponentially, and all elements will have more options. These days, though, shard of focus fills the permanent removal role pretty darned well.
Post by: Atico on May 15, 2012, 04:13:18 pm
Sad to see not the much needed PC for Water coming.
You can use SoF so there is no problem
Post by: justaburd on May 15, 2012, 04:14:21 pm
Sad to see not the much needed PC for Water coming.
Water still has more PC than some elements :) Ice bolt can freeze weapons sometimes. Granted, that's barely anything, but it's more than life or light get.
As the game expands, things will get better. Double the number of cards ingame (which will take months if not years) and the metagame will grow exponentially, and all elements will have more options. These days, though, shard of focus fills the permanent removal role pretty darned well.
ice bolt is what 30% chance and only targets the weapon slot. Plus SoF is expensive and isn't always usable when you need pc.
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 15, 2012, 04:17:15 pm
Sad to see not the much needed PC for Water coming.
Water still has more PC than some elements :) Ice bolt can freeze weapons sometimes. Granted, that's barely anything, but it's more than life or light get.
As the game expands, things will get better. Double the number of cards ingame (which will take months if not years) and the metagame will grow exponentially, and all elements will have more options. These days, though, shard of focus fills the permanent removal role pretty darned well.
ice bolt is what 30% chance and only targets the weapon slot. Plus SoF is expensive and isn't always usable when you need pc.
Wait what? Ice Bolt can target weapon slot?
Post by: Jenkar on May 15, 2012, 04:19:35 pm
No, but targeting opponent can freeze their weapon.Sad to see not the much needed PC for Water coming.
Water still has more PC than some elements :) Ice bolt can freeze weapons sometimes. Granted, that's barely anything, but it's more than life or light get.
As the game expands, things will get better. Double the number of cards ingame (which will take months if not years) and the metagame will grow exponentially, and all elements will have more options. These days, though, shard of focus fills the permanent removal role pretty darned well.
ice bolt is what 30% chance and only targets the weapon slot. Plus SoF is expensive and isn't always usable when you need pc.
Wait what? Ice Bolt can target weapon slot?
And air has no pc too, you know~
Post by: Higurashi on May 15, 2012, 04:26:46 pm
Ice Bolt is 100% at 60 :water. Shards don't really matter for Tiko or most of us since we do competitive PvP, in which Shards are rarely allowed. There's also the factor of elemental restrictions; a lot of events have them.
I agree Water is not the most in need of PC though, since it does have Ice Bolt and great CC. Air has great CC and Light has great survivability. Most of all Life needs either PC or CC, soft or not.
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 15, 2012, 04:31:42 pm
*eitherAgain, I'm not Tiko.
Ice Bolt is 100% at 60 :water. Shards don't really matter for Tiko or most of us since we do competitive PvP, in which Shards are rarely allowed. There's also the factor of elemental restrictions; a lot of events have them.
I agree Water is not the most in need of PC though, since it does have Ice Bolt and great CC. Air has great CC and Light has great survivability. Most of all Life needs either PC or CC, soft or not.
Post by: Higurashi on May 15, 2012, 04:38:07 pm
Post by: xdude on May 15, 2012, 04:39:57 pm
*either
Ice Bolt is 100% at 60 :water. Shards don't really matter for Tiko or most of us since we do competitive PvP, in which Shards are rarely allowed. There's also the factor of elemental restrictions; a lot of events have them.
I agree Water is not the most in need of PC though, since it does have Ice Bolt and great CC. Air has great CC and Light has great survivability. Most of all Life needs either PC or CC, soft or not.
Thorn Shield is actually amazing if you have a good amount of healing (SoG)
Post by: Higurashi on May 15, 2012, 04:41:53 pm
Edit: its main problems are slowness and expensiveness. If Life got another means of CC, soft or not, that card could serve as a complement to Thorn and would help Life stall tremendously. Unfortunately your Bond healing through Mitosis still takes so long to kick in (and is vulnerable to PC and -very- vulnerable to CC), even with Heals to buy time.
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 15, 2012, 05:22:19 pm
It really isn't. PC is way too commonly used for that to hold true in any more than a minority of cases. That's why you very, very rarely see it in competitive PvP. Easily one of the least used cards ever.
Edit: its main problems are slowness and expensiveness. If Life got another means of CC, soft or not, that card could serve as a complement to Thorn and would help Life stall tremendously. Unfortunately your Bond healing through Mitosis still takes so long to kick in (and is vulnerable to PC and -very- vulnerable to CC), even with Heals to buy time.
Also, it's prone to card disadvantage. You need lots of cards (not necessarily combos, but the quantity is needed) to make that strategy work. Soft CC, Thorn, Bonds, creatures, Mitosis, Heal... And Deflag goes right through all of that.
Post by: Jyiber on May 15, 2012, 07:14:46 pm
Wondering if further decreases to the strength of lvl 4s might be on the way. Maybe drop base quanta to 2 or lose the dexterity.... or maybe different builds for different half-bloods, much like the variety you see in the Arena.
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on May 15, 2012, 08:33:18 pm
By the way, every single shield (with a few exceptions) can be destroyed via PC, that doesn't make Thorn/Spine Carpace useless.
Post by: POB_123 on May 15, 2012, 08:48:15 pm
I just started playing with a Focus/Rage deck...
Back to the drawing board. :(
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 15, 2012, 09:38:57 pm
Great update, loved everything about it. Minus the whining in the comments.
Wondering if further decreases to the strength of lvl 4s might be on the way. Maybe drop base quanta to 2 or lose the dexterity.... or maybe different builds for different half-bloods, much like the variety you see in the Arena.
I could maybe see reducing their mark to 2x. Their dexterity is already not the same as FGs. They only draw 2 cards if they have 2 cards or less in hand. (I think 2 or less, might be off on that) I do think reducing halfbloods was a good idea, because there was too much of a gap in difficulty between ai3 and ai4, and now ai4 is closer to being in the middle of ai3 and ai5.
I'd still like to see an ai7, like a super god or something with 5x mark, triple draw, pets, etc, for epic hardcore mode :)
Post by: Atico on May 15, 2012, 09:59:28 pm
We need anti-CC mechanism, not next PC... Today PC can be used by everyone who has got SoF.
Post by: FlareGlutox on May 15, 2012, 10:09:16 pm
I'd still like to see an ai7, like a super god or something with 5x mark, triple draw, pets, etc, for epic hardcore mode :)I would find that also pretty nice, indeed. However, it's nothing Elements desperately needs; so as much as I would like such an addition, it has a very low priority - since other things like e.g. balancing or rather "completing" certain elements would benefit the game more imo.
Post by: Annele on May 16, 2012, 05:22:29 am
New art is... meh... especially devourer - what is that? really? How can I change to previous picture?Can't. A creature transforming quantum from other elements into darkness. 3rd best art in game IMO.
Other two?
Post by: Jenkar on May 16, 2012, 07:08:05 am
2nf : puffer.
Post by: Annele on May 16, 2012, 07:15:31 am
1st : ffq.
2nf : puffer.
Really?? Even though I miss the old Toadie, the new art is probably the MOST epic in the game. Next is devourer because it actually depicts the colours turning to black. Each to their own though. Is there a favourite art topic?
Post by: mservando on May 16, 2012, 08:02:06 am
Is this mostly just a bug patch? Or will there be new cards?
Dude,read it.It says:
New Card:
Psion
Post by: Jenkar on May 16, 2012, 08:28:33 am
Just so you know, answering to a post made roughly a month ago about something that was added ≈ 10hours after that being evident is... derp.Is this mostly just a bug patch? Or will there be new cards?
Dude,read it.It says:
New Card:
Psion
Post by: mservando on May 16, 2012, 08:45:24 am
Just so you know, answering to a post made roughly a month ago about something that was added ≈ 10hours after that being evident is... derp.Is this mostly just a bug patch? Or will there be new cards?
Dude,read it.It says:
New Card:
Psion
I'm sorry I did not realize the post I quoted to was posted a month ago.
Post by: Danelaan on May 16, 2012, 12:19:28 pm
Post by: JosFoeca on May 16, 2012, 12:47:56 pm
Post by: ralouf on May 16, 2012, 12:52:14 pm
Post by: SnoWeb on May 16, 2012, 01:44:42 pm
Actually they are already in the actual game.that's a lot of actuality!
Post by: McSod on May 16, 2012, 03:32:44 pm
Redundant sentence is redundant.Actually they are already in the actual game.that's a lot of actuality!
Post by: Poker Alho on May 16, 2012, 05:24:17 pm
Redundant sentence is redundant.Actually they are already in the actual game.that's a lot of actuality!
i see what you did there :P
Post by: fsk on May 16, 2012, 09:27:27 pm
Any deck that makes the top 5-50 of platinum gets promoted to AI7. The AI7 is like Platinum, but with no HP decay.
Post by: Poker Alho on May 16, 2012, 09:31:49 pm
It would be very easy to make an AI7. It would be "All-time best Platinum decks.", with no HP decay and level 80.
Any deck that makes the top 5-50 of platinum gets promoted to AI7. The AI7 is like Platinum, but with no HP decay.
that would be a terrible idea, you would only see ghostmares, DBH, poison stalls etc...
if it had to choose decks from platinum, it would be the ones who got more thumbs up while they were up imo
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 17, 2012, 12:06:02 am
Post by: Poker Alho on May 17, 2012, 12:12:13 am
Are mutant psions intended to deal spell damage? Currently, they are.
i doubt that, or else mutated chargers were supposed to have momentum and mutated scorpions would still have their poisonous passive...
Post by: Captain Scibra on May 17, 2012, 12:18:00 am
Are mutant psions intended to deal spell damage? Currently, they are.
i doubt that, or else mutated chargers were supposed to have momentum and mutated scorpions would still have their poisonous passive...
Mutations do not always have the active skills or status effects of which the original form of the creature they are represented has, but passives are always tacked onto a mutation whose representative creature has such passive.
Post by: bogtro on May 17, 2012, 02:35:35 am
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 17, 2012, 03:11:56 am
It would be very easy to make an AI7. It would be "All-time best Platinum decks.", with no HP decay and level 80.
Any deck that makes the top 5-50 of platinum gets promoted to AI7. The AI7 is like Platinum, but with no HP decay.
No. Just no. The only thing that would accomplish is SoSac farming.
Post by: furballdn on May 17, 2012, 03:13:36 am
A "best" plat deck would have to be fun to play against, not just overly powerful.It would be very easy to make an AI7. It would be "All-time best Platinum decks.", with no HP decay and level 80.
Any deck that makes the top 5-50 of platinum gets promoted to AI7. The AI7 is like Platinum, but with no HP decay.
that would be a terrible idea, you would only see ghostmares, DBH, poison stalls etc...
if it had to choose decks from platinum, it would be the ones who got more thumbs up while they were up imo
Post by: fsk on May 18, 2012, 05:20:45 pm
Post by: baivasobai on May 19, 2012, 09:30:42 pm
If you ask me, it is better to make them create the same deck :))))
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 19, 2012, 09:45:36 pm
Post by: asiantraceur on May 20, 2012, 11:05:07 pm
Post by: Skysong on May 21, 2012, 05:20:37 pm
Post by: Annele on May 22, 2012, 04:17:19 am
How about once decks gain X rating, they are entered with exact same bonuses, for example, if they got down to 100 hp from decay, they would still be at 100 hp from decay, but would not continue to decay.
You could get a deck with like 40 hp then.
Post by: xdude on May 22, 2012, 09:18:16 am
How about once decks gain X rating, they are entered with exact same bonuses, for example, if they got down to 100 hp from decay, they would still be at 100 hp from decay, but would not continue to decay.
Decay was specifically implemented to change the decks in the Arena every once in a while. What you're proposing is doing the opposite.
Post by: Skysong on May 22, 2012, 01:46:33 pm
Well, If they lose enough rating, that would make them cycle out, it would just be if they couldn't get enough rating on Day 1, they could get in on Day 2, but still have the decay apply on for that day.How about once decks gain X rating, they are entered with exact same bonuses, for example, if they got down to 100 hp from decay, they would still be at 100 hp from decay, but would not continue to decay.
Decay was specifically implemented to change the decks in the Arena every once in a while. What you're proposing is doing the opposite.
Post by: Annele on May 22, 2012, 07:06:23 pm
Well, If they lose enough rating, that would make them cycle out, it would just be if they couldn't get enough rating on Day 1, they could get in on Day 2, but still have the decay apply on for that day.How about once decks gain X rating, they are entered with exact same bonuses, for example, if they got down to 100 hp from decay, they would still be at 100 hp from decay, but would not continue to decay.
Decay was specifically implemented to change the decks in the Arena every once in a while. What you're proposing is doing the opposite.
You could get a deck with like 40 hp then.
Post by: Skysong on May 22, 2012, 08:18:06 pm
First off, more than a week would have to pass, since platnium decks generally have every stat at about max, (In other words, I highly I doubt someone would let it get that low on HP before replacing it.) And if that happened, what would the problem be, since it would have to have be very good to get the required rating?Well, If they lose enough rating, that would make them cycle out, it would just be if they couldn't get enough rating on Day 1, they could get in on Day 2, but still have the decay apply on for that day.How about once decks gain X rating, they are entered with exact same bonuses, for example, if they got down to 100 hp from decay, they would still be at 100 hp from decay, but would not continue to decay.
Decay was specifically implemented to change the decks in the Arena every once in a while. What you're proposing is doing the opposite.You could get a deck with like 40 hp then.
Post by: keng2 on May 24, 2012, 12:58:07 am
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on May 24, 2012, 02:22:46 am
Does anyone else think the new Colossal Dragon looks like a cross between a bat and a cat? All the other art is great.
Lol you're right it does a bit :P
Actually I preferred the old dragon... but Sapphire Charger ftw!!
Post by: Higurashi on May 24, 2012, 07:37:24 am
Does anyone else think the new Colossal Dragon looks like a cross between a bat and a cat? All the other art is great.http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/255/e/b/bat_cat_by_neoslashott-d49iof2.swf ?
(No, I don't think it does. It looks fierce x)
Post by: TheManuz on May 24, 2012, 09:50:00 am
Does anyone else think the new Colossal Dragon looks like a cross between a bat and a cat? All the other art is great.
Lol you're right it does a bit :P
Actually I preferred the old dragon... but Sapphire Charger ftw!!
OMG, the old one was the pregnant dragon! It always disturbed me a little...
I definitely prefer the new one!
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 24, 2012, 11:46:00 am
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
Post by: TheAccuso on May 24, 2012, 11:48:06 am
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/255/e/b/bat_cat_by_neoslashott-d49iof2.swf ?
[/quote]
lol
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on May 24, 2012, 01:41:58 pm
Does anyone else think the new Colossal Dragon looks like a cross between a bat and a cat? All the other art is great.
Lol you're right it does a bit :P
Actually I preferred the old dragon... but Sapphire Charger ftw!!
OMG, the old one was the pregnant dragon! It always disturbed me a little...
I definitely prefer the new one!
Lol oh yeah, you're right. I actually meant the Massive Dragon though, which looks much better than the Colossal Dragon especially from the in-play view.
Post by: xdude on May 24, 2012, 08:17:31 pm
Zanz. Light needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
Zanz. Life needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
Zanz. Time needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
Out of the 4 elements, Water can presumably bolt and Time can deck out with Eternity.
Post by: Jenkar on May 24, 2012, 08:41:05 pm
Zanz. Light needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.Zanz. Life needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.Zanz. Time needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
Out of the 4 elements, Water can presumably bolt and Time can deck out with Eternity.
You need to play with water more, dude.
Post by: Higurashi on May 24, 2012, 09:16:03 pm
Water should not be first in line for PC, soft or not, if it comes to that. Freezing weapons is a cute addition, but naturally doesn't solve the larger part of the problem: shields.
Mind you, I think more PC would be good for the game balance, but there are much more interesting options, such as improving healing after certain conditions or obtaining other ways of damaging/defeating your opponent (milling, adding counters till you win, giving you benefits from the opponent playing perms, etc.).
Post by: Chapuz on May 24, 2012, 10:38:24 pm
In my opinion, soft PC in non-PC elements is key for new strategies.
Post by: Naesala on May 24, 2012, 11:34:41 pm
There are several "Soft PC" card idead in the forums. That is a great idea for new ingame material. I remember, for example, an electric :air bird with the skill of delaying permanents for 1 turn, and vines that grow on a permanent that the permanent can't be used until some PC is played on the permanent with the vines (the PC destroys the vines).Agreed, I really hope Zanz is looking these over and considering some. Nearly everyone wants it added, and theyre almost all brilliant ideas.
In my opinion, soft PC in non-PC elements is key for new strategies.
Post by: 10 men on May 25, 2012, 01:04:46 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 25, 2012, 01:18:13 am
More PC to the game or not or whatever, the first step has to be to nerf the freaking Dim Shield, lol. The card is just way ahead of the curve for permanents, there's no realistic way of rebalancing it just with the introduction of other cards.
One possible nerf I thought of a couple days ago would be instead of reducing all damage for 3 turns, it gave you a damage resistance shield of, say, 5 or 6 for 3 turns. That way, it would still have way more protection than any other shield, albeit temporarily, but it wouldn't make you nigh invincible, as you could still get around it with dragons (which all elements have, in varying quality) and other big creatures. (which some elements have, and likely all will eventually)
Post by: asymmetry on May 25, 2012, 01:23:46 am
More PC to the game or not or whatever, the first step has to be to nerf the freaking Dim Shield, lol. The card is just way ahead of the curve for permanents, there's no realistic way of rebalancing it just with the introduction of other cards.
Yess! and SoFo is just like trying to put out fire with fuel
Post by: Jeep7up on May 25, 2012, 03:33:13 am
Does anyone else think the new Colossal Dragon looks like a cross between a bat and a cat? All the other art is great.http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/255/e/b/bat_cat_by_neoslashott-d49iof2.swf ?
(No, I don't think it does. It looks fierce x)
I love this <3 this is realy cute and funny :D
Post by: Annele on May 25, 2012, 05:06:28 am
Zanz. Water needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
As I think has been said before, balancing or justfying things based on war or whatnot is not really appropriate, because there are far more people who do not play competitivly than those who do. There will be many who don't care about war or Team Water's struggle.
That being said, I do believe, on a basis of the actual game, there needs to be a few more PC cards. :darkness, :entropy, :earth, :gravity, :water and maybe :death are not in desperate need, :aether is the source of most troubles, so I believe :air, :life, or :light should gain something of the sort.
Edit: I am sometimes an idiot.
Post by: justaburd on May 25, 2012, 05:16:13 am
Zanz. Water needs desperately some way to deal with Dimensional Shield efficiently.
45 have been used against Water in 24 war games (if I didn't miss more).
Please.
As I think has been said before, balancing or justfying things based on war or whatnot is not really appropriate, because there are far more people who do not play competitivly than those who do. There will be many who don't care about war or Team Water's struggle.
That being said, I do believe, on a basis of the actual game, there needs to be a few more PC cards. :darkness, :entropy, :earth, :gravity, :water and maybe :death are not in desperate need, :aether is the source of most troubles, so I believe :air, :entropy, :life, or :light gain something of the sort.
A step in the right direction would be to allow Chaos Seed to be able to target the opponent's (and yours as well) health. We can freeze the opponent's weapon, so why not (maybe) lobo?
I do believe torb has neglected :entropy 's BE?
Post by: xdude on May 25, 2012, 06:54:56 am
More PC to the game or not or whatever, the first step has to be to nerf the freaking Dim Shield, lol. The card is just way ahead of the curve for permanents, there's no realistic way of rebalancing it just with the introduction of other cards.
This might just be the case. While this is not true of the normal PvP settings, in War, I often classify opposing decks as with Dim (and Gravity Shield) or without Dim. While Gravity Shield is not so common for good reasons, the same can't be said about Dims.
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 25, 2012, 01:32:24 pm
Also, while there may be people who do not care about war, the elements have to be balanced, don't you think so?
Post by: BluePriest on May 25, 2012, 02:23:43 pm
If there's an element other than :water that needs to have a Dim Shield counter it is :life.Not really.
Also, while there may be people who do not care about war, the elements have to be balanced, don't you think so?
The cards have to be balanced, the elements do not. One elements could be weak mono, and yet be perfect for any duo deck. On the flip side, one element could be awesome mono, and yet pathetic when paired with others.
Post by: Higurashi on May 25, 2012, 02:40:02 pm
As for balance, I like it, but complete balance is not a must for a card game. There will always be some elements that are a bit stronger at the moment. This top will usually change depending on released cards and currently strong strategies in the metagame. The source of a player's frustration with the balance regarding this game stems from the fact that change is slow.
If mixing elements was allowed and not heavily restricted (or at all) in events, balance between elements would only matter for flavour. Of course, a lot of events are based on flavour and thematics. It's up to us as players and organizers to balance the events, and I think the developer's role would be to make sure certain -cards- are not overpowered rather than certain -elements-.
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 25, 2012, 05:07:43 pm
That's not possible. If an element is a strong mono, it automatically means it has certain strengths. Those strengths can always be put into a duo/trio/rainbow, etc. and bring along the best of the element. Since no element has everything, using strengths to complement components in a deck will always yield a stronger deck for a certain purpose.
As for balance, I like it, but complete balance is not a must for a card game. There will always be some elements that are a bit stronger at the moment. This top will usually change depending on released cards and currently strong strategies in the metagame. The source of a player's frustration with the balance regarding this game stems from the fact that change is slow.
If mixing elements was allowed and not heavily restricted (or at all) in events, balance between elements would only matter for flavour. Of course, a lot of events are based on flavour and thematics. It's up to us as players and organizers to balance the events, and I think the developer's role would be to make sure certain -cards- are not overpowered rather than certain -elements-.
Elements however has a strong theme in, well, the twelve elements. Unlike Magic, where the colors are mixed together in certain new ways in virtually every edition of the game, elements hasn't got multi-element cards, further strengthening this theme. The pillars themselves suggest using three types of decks: mono, duo and rainbow. Balancing these decktypes should be a (thematic) priority, in my opinion, and it includes balancing the elements themselves.
Post by: Poker Alho on May 25, 2012, 05:17:54 pm
Post by: EmeraldTiger on May 25, 2012, 05:55:49 pm
Post by: BluePriest on May 25, 2012, 07:06:47 pm
Some combinations of hybrids are difficult to thematically put together.
and impossible when you factor in that the current game code just doesnt allow it
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 25, 2012, 08:40:26 pm
Some combinations of hybrids are difficult to thematically put together.
and impossible when you factor in that the current game code just doesnt allow it
And IIRC Zanz shot down the idea already.
Post by: Poker Alho on May 25, 2012, 08:43:58 pm
Some combinations of hybrids are difficult to thematically put together.
and impossible when you factor in that the current game code just doesnt allow it
And IIRC Zanz shot down the idea already.
if thats true, it was a bad decision imo, hybrids could open a lot of new and interesting ideas/mechanics thus making the game better and more fun to play
Post by: TheManuz on May 25, 2012, 09:01:30 pm
Well, i agree with Zanz here.Some combinations of hybrids are difficult to thematically put together.
and impossible when you factor in that the current game code just doesnt allow it
And IIRC Zanz shot down the idea already.
if thats true, it was a bad decision imo, hybrids could open a lot of new and interesting ideas/mechanics thus making the game better and more fun to play
I feel that some elements still need to be developed and explored, introducing hybrid elements would be too much for now.
Post by: The_Mormegil on May 26, 2012, 06:31:35 am
Well, i agree with Zanz here.
I feel that some elements still need to be developed and explored, introducing hybrid elements would be too much for now.
Agreed, I like the elemental identity of EtG. That's also the reason I strongly dislike shards.
Post by: Chapuz on May 26, 2012, 12:54:11 pm
I agree too, there are also several powerful mono shard decks... it's like wtf's that?Well, i agree with Zanz here.Agreed, I like the elemental identity of EtG. That's also the reason I strongly dislike shards.
I feel that some elements still need to be developed and explored, introducing hybrid elements would be too much for now.
Post by: Poker Alho on May 26, 2012, 11:12:41 pm
Post by: BluePriest on May 27, 2012, 12:51:00 am
i wasnt saying that putting hybrid cards in the game now is more important than completing some elements first, but taking that out of the picture, is there a real reason in terms of balacing and thematics against hybrids?Theres a real reason in terms of game code. The game code does NOT allow it, period.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 27, 2012, 03:04:25 am
Or at least it would take a huge restructuring of the code before it happened.i wasnt saying that putting hybrid cards in the game now is more important than completing some elements first, but taking that out of the picture, is there a real reason in terms of balacing and thematics against hybrids?Theres a real reason in terms of game code. The game code does NOT allow it, period.
Post by: Xenocidius on May 27, 2012, 03:43:51 am
Post by: furballdn on May 27, 2012, 03:49:33 am
Yes, it would take a bit (lot) of coding, but is certainly possible. That said, there is one good thematic reason against them: the game is called Elements, not Compounds. :)Oh man. Can you imagine if this game was like chemistry? With all the elements? Yes, I'd like some dientropytetragravity please.
Post by: Xamuel on June 03, 2012, 01:23:59 pm
As a programmer myself, it's a bit of a pet peeve when people speak of things as being impossible, just because they're not *currently* programmed.i wasnt saying that putting hybrid cards in the game now is more important than completing some elements first, but taking that out of the picture, is there a real reason in terms of balacing and thematics against hybrids?Theres a real reason in terms of game code. The game code does NOT allow it, period.
>Before the most recent update, a card like Psion was "impossible" for the same reason
>And then there's something like Shard of Freedom. The dodge-targeting effect (which I must say is quite clever) was completely unthinkable within the game code!! ...at least, until Zanz coded it.
Zanz programmed the entire game from scratch, I'm pretty sure if he wanted to add hybrid creatures, he could do it without much difficulty ;D Hell, knowing him, he'd do it in some snazzy stylish way we can't even imagine right now
Post by: RavingRabbid on June 03, 2012, 07:01:49 pm
Spell Damage was already coded in game.As a programmer myself, it's a bit of a pet peeve when people speak of things as being impossible, just because they're not *currently* programmed.i wasnt saying that putting hybrid cards in the game now is more important than completing some elements first, but taking that out of the picture, is there a real reason in terms of balacing and thematics against hybrids?Theres a real reason in terms of game code. The game code does NOT allow it, period.
>Before the most recent update, a card like Psion was "impossible" for the same reason
>And then there's something like Shard of Freedom. The dodge-targeting effect (which I must say is quite clever) was completely unthinkable within the game code!! ...at least, until Zanz coded it.
Zanz programmed the entire game from scratch, I'm pretty sure if he wanted to add hybrid creatures, he could do it without much difficulty ;D Hell, knowing him, he'd do it in some snazzy stylish way we can't even imagine right now
Zanz already said that including dual quanta costs would require rewriting the whole code.
Post by: 2481jr on June 03, 2012, 08:12:02 pm
Yay! Half bloods were changed!good news that half blood hp is reduced!
Post by: Annele on June 03, 2012, 10:28:03 pm
>Before the most recent update, a card like Psion was "impossible" for the same reason
>And then there's something like Shard of Freedom. The dodge-targeting effect (which I must say is quite clever) was completely unthinkable within the game code!! ...at least, until Zanz coded it.
Zanz programmed the entire game from scratch, I'm pretty sure if he wanted to add hybrid creatures, he could do it without much difficulty ;D Hell, knowing him, he'd do it in some snazzy stylish way we can't even imagine right now
Just another reason to prove Zanz is a god.
However, just because one can do something, does not mean one should.
Post by: FIQ on June 04, 2012, 02:53:40 pm
Post by: Heavenscall on June 04, 2012, 10:45:10 pm
Or does he wrote something about hybrid cards?
Post by: Zaealix on June 09, 2012, 01:25:35 am
Post by: qetuol on June 12, 2012, 08:40:53 am
Post by: Xenocidius on June 12, 2012, 08:45:33 am
Post by: einujarreza on June 12, 2012, 10:23:27 am
Post by: Mammalman on June 12, 2012, 03:09:56 pm
Post by: RRQJ on June 12, 2012, 03:26:32 pm
is it just me or have the buffs for most nymphs gone into place while the buff to auburn nymph is still not in effect. did i miss a change of plans?
my unupped auburn nymph say 4/8, so the buff is in effect. Not sure what would be wrong in your case.
Post by: Higurashi on June 12, 2012, 03:31:12 pm
Post by: yoda300 on June 12, 2012, 07:34:53 pm
or cards lika valcano that kills noairborne creatures or a hurrican that kills all airborne
or a blitz card for ground creatures where att of all ground is doubled for 1 turn let me kno
thx YODA300
Post by: omegareaper7 on June 12, 2012, 08:05:42 pm
:aether will we ever have a secound upgrade or rarer cards? No, distances newbies even further then they already are.
or cards lika valcano that kills noairborne creatures or a hurrican that kills all airborneinsta kills are frowned upon by, i think, a vast majority of players as well as Zanz.
or a blitz card for ground creatures where att of all ground is doubled for 1 turn let me kno
thx YODA300
Post by: Mammalman on June 12, 2012, 08:20:34 pm
Post by: RRQJ on June 12, 2012, 09:54:25 pm
hm i don't have any actual auburn nymphs, i made some with nymph's tears and they came up as 1/3 or 1/4.
I think you're mistaking auburn nymph (earth) for amber nymph (gravity).
The old auburn nymph had 0 atk and never had a change to 1 atk. The amber nymph, however, has those stats. It hasn't changed because it doesn't need a buff.
Post by: gifted8 on June 12, 2012, 10:18:11 pm
:aether will we ever have a secound upgrade or rarer cards? No, distances newbies even further then they already are.
or cards lika valcano that kills noairborne creatures or a hurrican that kills all airborneinsta kills are frowned upon by, i think, a vast majority of players as well as Zanz.
or a blitz card for ground creatures where att of all ground is doubled for 1 turn let me kno
thx YODA300
Post by: furballdn on June 13, 2012, 12:14:49 am
I sort of agree with yoda300 on the blitz cardSky blitz is an alright card since only a handful of creatures are airborne. The majority of creatures are landborne.:aether will we ever have a secound upgrade or rarer cards? No, distances newbies even further then they already are.
or cards lika valcano that kills noairborne creatures or a hurrican that kills all airborneinsta kills are frowned upon by, i think, a vast majority of players as well as Zanz.
or a blitz card for ground creatures where att of all ground is doubled for 1 turn let me kno
thx YODA300
Post by: teffy on June 13, 2012, 09:40:30 am
Sky blitz is an alright card since only a handful of creatures are airborne. The majority of creatures are landborne.
More than a handful. A bit more than 1/3 of all creatures.
Post by: Heavenscall on June 13, 2012, 04:21:20 pm
Post by: Mammalman on June 13, 2012, 05:00:35 pm
hm i don't have any actual auburn nymphs, i made some with nymph's tears and they came up as 1/3 or 1/4.
I think you're mistaking auburn nymph (earth) for amber nymph (gravity).
The old auburn nymph had 0 atk and never had a change to 1 atk. The amber nymph, however, has those stats. It hasn't changed because it doesn't need a buff.
oops quite so, thanks
Post by: Joe21 on June 13, 2012, 10:20:54 pm
Post by: Vangelios on July 07, 2012, 07:27:34 pm
Post by: Troh on August 01, 2012, 11:58:13 am
Post by: Avenger on August 02, 2012, 02:24:57 pm
Congratulations, I liked the changes, only regret the shard of focusIt needs a usage cost. It is just too OP.
Post by: TribalTrouble on August 05, 2012, 09:57:55 pm
Post by: Atom_heart on August 06, 2012, 01:34:09 pm
Post by: rosutosefi on August 06, 2012, 02:09:10 pm
The shard of focus is a powerful card but it's not impossible to deal with. Having just 1 HP, you can bring it down with almost anything. IMHO it's better to have new cards that are challenging, instead of bland cards that don't make a real difference.
You have not seen the horrors of SoFo in competitive league matches. First turn SoFo's are very common, and you have no way to deal with it. On the second turn, it reaches 16 HP. Try to kill it.
Post by: Jenkar on August 06, 2012, 02:14:23 pm
IMHO it's better to have new cards that are challenging, instead of bland cards that don't make a real difference.This is why Yu-Gi-Oh became pathetic :c
Post by: Atom_heart on August 06, 2012, 02:23:24 pm
The shard of focus is a powerful card but it's not impossible to deal with. Having just 1 HP, you can bring it down with almost anything. IMHO it's better to have new cards that are challenging, instead of bland cards that don't make a real difference.
You have not seen the horrors of SoFo in competitive league matches. First turn SoFo's are very common, and you have no way to deal with it. On the second turn, it reaches 16 HP. Try to kill it.
You're right, I have not participated on a tournament yet :) Hopefully I will soon.
Just thinking out loud here, but maybe it would be nice if they reduced the max HP of the shard so you can use it just twice... it would still be an edgy card, but less annoying!
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 06, 2012, 03:20:42 pm
The shard of focus is a powerful card but it's not impossible to deal with. Having just 1 HP, you can bring it down with almost anything. IMHO it's better to have new cards that are challenging, instead of bland cards that don't make a real difference.
You have not seen the horrors of SoFo in competitive league matches. First turn SoFo's are very common, and you have no way to deal with it. On the second turn, it reaches 16 HP. Try to kill it.
You're right, I have not participated on a tournament yet :) Hopefully I will soon.
Just thinking out loud here, but maybe it would be nice if they reduced the max HP of the shard so you can use it just twice... it would still be an edgy card, but less annoying!
Check out the nerf threads
Post by: moomoose on August 09, 2012, 01:29:22 am
Post by: cj111 on August 09, 2012, 01:34:48 am
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 09, 2012, 02:02:59 am
feels like its just about time for the next major patch to be started up, no?
Right?
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on August 10, 2012, 08:10:41 pm
Zanz seems to be on vacation. At least, I hope that's the case.feels like its just about time for the next major patch to be started up, no?
Right?
Post by: Poker Alho on August 10, 2012, 08:14:15 pm
Zanz seems to be on vacation. At least, I hope that's the case.feels like its just about time for the next major patch to be started up, no?
Right?
i really hope that's the situation. it would be awful if zanzs simply gave up on its project now
Post by: Naesala on August 10, 2012, 10:01:03 pm
Post by: n00b on August 10, 2012, 10:05:12 pm
Obviously, the same void that opened up and swallowed SG swallowed up zanz, transporting them back in time to the middle ages, where they have risen to nobility.
It's the weeping angels.
Post by: McSod on August 10, 2012, 10:06:12 pm
Obviously, the same void that opened up and swallowed SG swallowed up zanz, transporting them back in time to the middle ages, where they have risen to nobility.
Or have been burned as witches. Until we all suddenly start 'remembering' the tales of Brave Sir Zans we can't know for certain. :p
Post by: Annele on August 10, 2012, 11:58:00 pm
Post by: McSod on August 11, 2012, 12:52:24 am
Post by: Ahleen on August 28, 2012, 01:25:49 pm
Post by: Ilias22 on September 05, 2012, 10:33:15 am
Post by: Poker Alho on September 05, 2012, 10:44:00 am
When elements 1.32 coming out?
something tells me it might get out when half life 3 gets out
Post by: TribalTrouble on September 05, 2012, 03:21:16 pm
Uhh is it ironic that when typing Zanz I got this from google images search?Obviously, the same void that opened up and swallowed SG swallowed up zanz, transporting them back in time to the middle ages, where they have risen to nobility.
Or have been burned as witches. Until we all suddenly start 'remembering' the tales of Brave Sir Zans we can't know for certain. :p
http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0:The_old_castle_in_Zanzibar.JPG
Post by: Absol on September 05, 2012, 05:03:57 pm
It's not ironic. It's coincidence.
More (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony) on (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Irony) irony (http://www.cracked.com/funny-1085-irony/)
Post by: hatred on September 25, 2012, 03:10:21 am
Post by: Jyiber on September 25, 2012, 06:13:44 am
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
I will now go into detail on my next conspiracy theory. It involves pandas, global warming, and burnt marshmallows...
Post by: furballdn on September 25, 2012, 06:16:58 am
My theory...:O (http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3r26zc/)
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
Post by: Naesala on September 25, 2012, 06:17:35 am
My theory...
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
I will now go into detail on my next conspiracy theory. It involves pandas, global warming, and burnt marshmallows...
Maybe...YOU are zanz!
Post by: Annele on September 25, 2012, 07:11:44 am
My theory...
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
I will now go into detail on my next conspiracy theory. It involves pandas, global warming, and burnt marshmallows...
Heh heh heh...
Post by: TheManuz on September 25, 2012, 08:13:07 am
My theory...I think you're Zanz, playing with our minds!
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
I will now go into detail on my next conspiracy theory. It involves pandas, global warming, and burnt marshmallows...
Post by: yee on September 25, 2012, 11:35:34 am
My theory...
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
I will now go into detail on my next conspiracy theory. It involves pandas, global warming, and burnt marshmallows...
Heh heh heh...
Annele sounds suspicious...
Post by: moomoose on September 26, 2012, 03:00:15 am
Post by: ddevans96 on September 26, 2012, 03:05:57 am
zanz ran off with sg to barbados
I'm beginning to buy this theory.
Post by: furballdn on September 26, 2012, 03:09:40 am
Great. Is this going to be like mafia where we all point fingers?My theory...
zanz goes incognito via a secondary forum account and posts on things he likes in another alias so he can feel normal when talking to us mere peasants. It could be multiple accounts with random names, or someone who's been on here for a while.
I will now go into detail on my next conspiracy theory. It involves pandas, global warming, and burnt marshmallows...
Maybe...YOU are zanz!
Jyiber (1) - furballdn
Post by: Annele on September 26, 2012, 03:17:00 am
zanz ran off with sg to New Zealand
Fixed.
Post by: Chapuz on September 26, 2012, 04:09:56 am
Fixed.zanz ran off with sg to his basementFixed.
Post by: moomoose on September 26, 2012, 12:27:41 pm
Post by: Annele on September 26, 2012, 08:36:58 pm
i didnt get the inkling that zanz and sg were interested in sheep, annele ;)
I had a dream about it, so it must be true.
Post by: Naesala on September 26, 2012, 09:21:42 pm
More evidence that annele is zanzi didnt get the inkling that zanz and sg were interested in sheep, annele ;)
I had a dream about it, so it must be true.
Post by: Drake_XIV on September 27, 2012, 04:05:19 am
More evidence that annele is zanzi didnt get the inkling that zanz and sg were interested in sheep, annele ;)
I had a dream about it, so it must be true.
Annele is Jyiber is Zanz. Seems about right.
Post by: Annele on September 27, 2012, 04:28:38 am
More evidence that annele is zanzi didnt get the inkling that zanz and sg were interested in sheep, annele ;)
I had a dream about it, so it must be true.
Annele is Jyiber is Zanz. Seems about right.
<--- There is a person called Annele who looks like this.
Post by: TheManuz on September 27, 2012, 03:54:44 pm
1.30 is now online.
Last message from Zanz on 1.31:
Psion (as usual) will come when after everyone downloaded the new version.
It was only a month from 1.30 to 1.31.
We're waiting for the next update for 4 months...
Zanz, Y U NO ACCEPT HELP FROM US TO RELEASE MORE UPDATES/CARDS/WHATEVER?
Post by: ddevans96 on September 27, 2012, 09:28:33 pm
Post by: Jyiber on September 27, 2012, 09:47:33 pm
More evidence that annele is zanzi didnt get the inkling that zanz and sg were interested in sheep, annele ;)
I had a dream about it, so it must be true.
Annele is Jyiber is Zanz. Seems about right.
...unless it's you... hmm...
The plot thickens!
Post by: moomoose on September 28, 2012, 05:44:13 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on September 28, 2012, 05:48:41 pm
Slightly more on topic...
(http://i.minus.com/ibsWCXcJ9amJgf.png)
Post by: yee on September 28, 2012, 06:26:54 pm
And off topic.That got my hopes up for a moment, lol.
Slightly more on topic...(http://i.minus.com/ibsWCXcJ9amJgf.png)
Post by: moomoose on September 28, 2012, 06:32:57 pm
Post by: RRQJ on September 28, 2012, 10:34:07 pm
Post by: moomoose on September 28, 2012, 10:55:44 pm
Post by: BluePriest on September 29, 2012, 02:42:57 am
Post by: moomoose on September 29, 2012, 02:44:46 am
Post by: pulli23 on September 29, 2012, 11:03:51 am
Quote
Last Active:
Today at 03:29:23 AM
10 hours ago - let the speculation start!
Post by: eaglgenes101 on September 29, 2012, 10:52:19 pm
Post by: Wolfunit on September 30, 2012, 02:17:51 pm
Post by: Chapuz on September 30, 2012, 03:49:16 pm
OMG ZANZ POSTED IN THE FORUMS! DID YOU SEE!Annele!is!ZANZ! !I saw he connected, not his post(s)
Post by: Rutarete on September 30, 2012, 03:52:26 pm
Fixed, albeit a day late.QuoteLast Active:
Today at 03:29:23 AM
10 hours ago - let the stalking start!
Post by: moomoose on September 30, 2012, 04:57:11 pm
Post by: pulli23 on September 30, 2012, 05:39:14 pm
if were going to stalk, were going to do it right. first find his company info, then find translate that into his real life id, then find out where he lives, then go outside his house and leave a note saying how much we love him but we really need to see other cards.
Please stick an extra note to talk about shard of focus :P.
Post by: hendrydext on October 04, 2012, 03:36:10 pm
No more update from the only one developer, Zanzarino.. :( :( :( :( :( :(
I think that this game is dying..
I already had all the cards.. Not interested with nymph.. Not interested with shard..
No one, even the best programmer, can do all the work himself. (Coding, update, maintain the game himself)..
Maybe Zanzarino (and us) need successor to make the game continue to live. If not, the game is dying.
I wonder, is there still any player here who play the game anyway?
And please Zanz, if you don't want to update the game anymore, let other people do your work...
That s the best option..
Sorry if there are any mistake in my words. Maybe this is the last comment in this forum...
Good bye all.
Post by: BluePriest on October 04, 2012, 03:38:13 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on October 04, 2012, 03:41:22 pm
April - May - June - July - August - September - October...
No more update from the only one developer, Zanzarino.. :( :( :( :( :( :(
I think that this game is dying..
I already had all the cards.. Not interested with nymph.. Not interested with shard..
No one, even the best programmer, can do all the work himself. (Coding, update, maintain the game himself)..
Maybe Zanzarino (and us) need successor to make the game continue to live. If not, the game is dying.
I wonder, is there still any player here who play the game anyway?
And please Zanz, if you don't want to update the game anymore, let other people do your work...
That s the best option..
Sorry if there are any mistake in my words. Maybe this is the last comment in this forum...
Good bye all.
Zanz posted today and fixed PvP1. Streaks of inactivity from him, like these, are not too unusual, as Elements is not his primary job. I predict he will post hints, or more, about the next patch by the end of the month. Probably sooner. Hopefully much sooner.
And yeah, there's many people who still play the game.
Post by: willng3 on October 04, 2012, 03:42:29 pm
Post by: Rutarete on October 04, 2012, 03:58:48 pm
It's been a whole 30 seconds since I last played this game.That gives me a good smile :)
Post by: BunKeR on October 04, 2012, 10:15:05 pm
Zanz posted today and fixed PvP1.
awesome !
Post by: The Chosen One on October 26, 2012, 09:49:28 pm
Post by: tekpau on October 27, 2012, 06:21:32 am
Post by: Absol on October 27, 2012, 06:58:44 am
how oracle grant chosen card???At random.
Post by: tekpau on October 27, 2012, 07:06:53 am
Post by: Absol on October 27, 2012, 07:14:19 am
so i cannot get card i wanted??If i can, i want to get nymphs.
Post by: remrej on November 03, 2012, 07:32:47 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on November 03, 2012, 09:17:30 pm
Is this game still in development? Haven't seen an update in ages.
Yes, it is. The developer recently fixed a major bug preventing people from playing PvP1.
This kind of phase is not unnatural for Elements, although it's length of nearly six months is becoming a small bit worrisome. Still not a cause of complete breakdown, as some people seem to think.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 03, 2012, 09:56:46 pm
Post by: Rutarete on November 03, 2012, 10:02:15 pm
At the very least, what is Zanz planning to add to 1.32?No idea. We can only hope. He hasn't revealed specifics.
Post by: kimham8a on November 03, 2012, 11:17:54 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on November 03, 2012, 11:51:18 pm
At the very least, what is Zanz planning to add to 1.32?
The last time Zanz was active, he mentioned some preliminary ideas for something he called 'The Trials'. (unrelated to the pre-War event) He didn't say much more than that, but the idea was that you would have to accomplish certain things in order to unlock various intrinsic abilities, possibly tied to your mark, and the one example he mentioned was being able to ban a card from use in a game, like Black Hole or something.
Post by: Chapuz on November 04, 2012, 01:51:54 am
After that, he dissappeared for some time and reappeared when a guy had some problems with a donation. Some time later, I e-mailed him telling some little stuff and that PVP1 was broken. 1 or 2 days later, he fixed it (cassuality?). He has entered to the forum some times later but never posted.At the very least, what is Zanz planning to add to 1.32?
The last time Zanz was active, he mentioned some preliminary ideas for something he called 'The Trials'. (unrelated to the pre-War event) He didn't say much more than that, but the idea was that you would have to accomplish certain things in order to unlock various intrinsic abilities, possibly tied to your mark, and the one example he mentioned was being able to ban a card from use in a game, like Black Hole or something.
Post by: Higurashi on November 04, 2012, 05:16:51 am
He has mentioned a lot of ideas, most of which you will find mentioned in this thread. For instance, most know he's planning to give us more quests, and possibly daily ones. He always has ideas lined up. We just won't know which ones are up next until beta.
Post by: Annele on November 04, 2012, 05:46:58 am
Post by: Rutarete on November 04, 2012, 06:14:40 am
Is it really necessary to leave this topic open?You can always ignore it.
Post by: moomoose on November 04, 2012, 02:40:34 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 04, 2012, 09:03:53 pm
Post by: Jen-i on November 04, 2012, 09:08:57 pm
Post by: Chapuz on November 04, 2012, 09:39:08 pm
Special brownies?I'm an excelent cooker, I can send him ones...
Post by: iancudorinmarian on November 04, 2012, 09:51:43 pm
After you find out where he lives.Special brownies?I'm an excelent cooker, I can send him ones...
But I'm sure he'll tell you, no one can resist cockies, NO ONE!!!
Post by: 2rider on November 04, 2012, 09:55:43 pm
higs- tell zanz i will make him chocolate rum balls, or bake brownies if he prefers, for him if he makes another patch soon :)
I will help. :)
Post by: moomoose on November 04, 2012, 11:37:22 pm
Post by: Higurashi on November 06, 2012, 04:45:53 am
I'll let him know, moo :>
Post by: mathman101 on November 21, 2012, 05:36:18 am
I'm loving this 1.31, but can't wait to see what new mysteries await us in the next.
Post by: hwy on November 21, 2012, 12:39:53 pm
Post by: aerendhil on November 21, 2012, 03:52:03 pm
Does anyone know when the 1.32 patch will be coming out?Me too, I'm quite curious about what's coming next.
I'm loving this 1.31, but can't wait to see what new mysteries await us in the next.
some info anyone ?
Post by: dragonsdemesne on November 21, 2012, 05:37:59 pm
Post by: moomoose on November 21, 2012, 09:45:18 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on November 25, 2012, 11:16:12 pm
Post by: Drake_XIV on November 25, 2012, 11:29:01 pm
I always get excited when i see a new reply on this thread >_<
And then you realize if there was a patch, it would be 1.32 or 1.41 in its own thread.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 26, 2012, 12:29:11 am
Post by: remrej on November 26, 2012, 04:27:54 pm
Post by: TheManuz on November 26, 2012, 05:39:27 pm
I'd just like to hear that he is planning on doing something, and that the game development hasn't been shelved.Me too, it's been too much time since we heard something.
Even a simple "Oh hay thar!" from Zanz would be fine!
Post by: Bruciato on December 07, 2012, 04:42:51 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on December 07, 2012, 04:47:47 pm
Post by: TheAccuso on December 07, 2012, 05:07:11 pm
I guess it's over then.. Games get called "discontinued" for less.. Bye Elements, it was funGo play a game where you have a patch a day but you pay money then.bye
Post by: willng3 on December 07, 2012, 09:26:48 pm
I guess it's over then.. Games get called "discontinued" for less.. Bye Elements, it was funHi! Welcome to the forums!
Post by: Troh on December 12, 2012, 07:02:58 pm
It doesn't suck that patches are very rare.I guess it's over then.. Games get called "discontinued" for less.. Bye Elements, it was funHi! Welcome to the forums!
The thing is this was not a good moment to stop patching. After introducing shards, he could balance them and finish that stage and then leave. He did finish this patch only by half, and left. Half things suck.
Not all elements have a shard.
Shard golem is useless.
Shard of focus is too unbalanced.
Shard of sacrifice has a too big impact for a single card.
Shard of readiness + mitosis dargons ... really? common not fair do a patch.
In toruney shards are not accepted ok, but Arena is screwed.
Zanz could at least finish all the shard job and then dissappear. He screwed the game and left this is not good.
Post by: moomoose on December 12, 2012, 07:30:21 pm
also shard golem is fun, maybe not the most practical, but fun.
Post by: Calindu on December 12, 2012, 07:47:31 pm
Not all elements have a shard.
Shard golem is useless.
Shard of patience + mitosis dargons ... really? common not fair do a patch.
Zanz could at least finish all the shard job and then dissappear. He screwed the game and left this is not good.
What? Seriously, what?
Every element has a shard.
Shard Golem decks are very strong.
SoP+Mitosis Dragons? Who the heck would use that?
Post by: Fippe94 on December 12, 2012, 08:04:01 pm
Post by: Troh on December 12, 2012, 10:35:35 pm
Post by: Rutarete on December 12, 2012, 10:51:43 pm
so why shards are banned on tourneys if they fit the game so well?Because of how they influence the themed meta game of tourneys.
Post by: Troh on December 13, 2012, 07:53:54 am
so why shards are banned on tourneys if they fit the game so well?Because of how they influence the themed meta game of tourneys.
So you agree that it is a broken meta game.
And this broken meta game is still influencing Arena, PVM and PVP2. And it sucks.
I would prefer some fixes to all the shard concept so we could have a playable environment.
This is what i was talking about. After introducing things with such a great impact it should have been closely analyzed and fixed, but instead zanz just disappeared. Just not the best moment
Post by: Rutarete on December 13, 2012, 03:40:59 pm
I did not say broken. I was talking only about tourney meta, answering your question, but now you're putting my answer against broader terms.so why shards are banned on tourneys if they fit the game so well?Because of how they influence the themed meta game of tourneys.
So you agree that it is a broken meta game.
And this broken meta game is still influencing Arena, PVM and PVP2. And it sucks.
Post by: hatred on December 18, 2012, 06:46:05 pm
Then our phones and pads and pods will be completely overloaded with awesome. We'll all cry out in unison, "We're so sorry to have ever doubted you." zanz will graciously accept our pitiful apology, too, because that's just the kind of guy he is.
Post by: ddevans96 on December 18, 2012, 08:44:09 pm
Post by: Annele on December 18, 2012, 09:31:56 pm
I actually would not be surprised if he's on a hiatus because he's making an elements app...but I'd like to think he would tell the community such an app is in development and not keep it a secret for months on end.
People don't tell what they're getting other people for Christmas.
Post by: Chapuz on December 19, 2012, 12:04:59 am
Post by: kimham8a on December 19, 2012, 04:03:05 am
Post by: plastiqe on December 19, 2012, 04:03:52 am
10:02 Stuff I made (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38357.0.html)
10:09 Did several searches, search results unknown.
10:18 Desiccation | Desiccation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30479.0.html)
10:30 Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,39851.0.html)
10:39 back to Desiccation | Desiccation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30479.0.html)
10:44 back to Stuff I made (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38357.0.html)
11:01 logged off
12:02 posts 1.32
Post by: ddevans96 on December 19, 2012, 04:09:36 am
Post by: n00b on December 19, 2012, 04:11:01 am
Suddenly, plastiqe goes missing, turns up in the middle of Ohio, and winds up in Florence on charges of aggravated stalking.You obviously mean a normal weekend in the life of.
Post by: kimham8a on December 19, 2012, 04:20:49 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 19, 2012, 04:30:18 am
How are we so desperate...SoFo is so OP, we don't have a recent update, and Zanz promised trials.
Post by: moomoose on December 19, 2012, 04:30:43 am
Post by: Elbirn on December 19, 2012, 06:11:55 am
TEACH ME YOUR WAYS