Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

News and Announcements => Patch Notes and Development News => Topic started by: zanzarino on December 30, 2011, 05:51:14 AM

Title: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on December 30, 2011, 05:51:14 AM
New Cards:
http://www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
Shard of Wisdom
Shard of Focus
Shard of Bravery
Shard of Integrity
Shard of Freedom
Seraph

Balance:
Shard of Patience is now a permanent
Discord's scramble randomizes only 9 quanta (use to be 10)
Nova and Super Nova generate singularities when used multiple times per turn
Purify now can target both players and creatures
Purify now also removes sacrifice and aflatoxin
Unupgraded purify cost increased to 2
Unupgraded purify healing increased to 2
Aflatoxin cost reduced to 6/5
The AI now plays a maximum of 6 Shards of Sacrifice per game
It takes one less consecutive victory to gain a special spin in the arena (bronze=5, silver=4, gold=3, platinum=2)

Bug fixes:
Catapult can now kill the opponent
EM is granted even if the last blow was delivered by a healing creature (e.g. Jade staff)
Deck building page redesigned
Ice bolt does not freeze empty slots anymore
EM vs arena deck during testing does not remove score anymore
Unupgraded pandemonium now removes cloak for both payers
Sundial effect is correctly when a sundial is destroyed
Phoenix + Alfatoxin (0|0 creature): now the phoenix turns into a malignant cell, as intended
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UTAlan on December 30, 2011, 05:53:31 AM
Nice. Can't wait to see these show up in beta. :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on December 30, 2011, 05:54:31 AM
Wow, I was actually JUST on that page. Didn't see anything new. Stupid cache. >.>

EDIT: New images!

(http://i.imgur.com/zAxxO.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ovJS2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/E8iAl.png) (http://i.imgur.com/jpGDh.png) (http://i.imgur.com/WpJ8Y.png) (http://i.imgur.com/yf8RF.png) (http://i.imgur.com/EYW15.png) (http://i.imgur.com/OgdDK.png) (http://i.imgur.com/4y0H5.png) (http://i.imgur.com/vYtOd.png) (http://i.imgur.com/wT6UM.png) (http://i.imgur.com/dfy5B.png) (http://i.imgur.com/WEfJB.png) (http://i.imgur.com/n981m.png) (http://i.imgur.com/uOwJp.png) (http://i.imgur.com/HmQig.png) (http://i.imgur.com/WWyD9.png) (http://i.imgur.com/7d0yW.png) (http://i.imgur.com/GCDHd.png) (http://i.imgur.com/x0BF2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/3w6El.png) (http://i.imgur.com/RFtZQ.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Dpi61.png) (http://i.imgur.com/nHdr2.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/u8o9f.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ckZ1L.png) (http://i.imgur.com/aI918.png) (http://i.imgur.com/AETGj.png) (http://i.imgur.com/KAJ1p.png) (http://i.imgur.com/sYrWR.png) (http://i.imgur.com/n7Wxv.png) (http://i.imgur.com/yLffh.png) (http://i.imgur.com/9IEBe.png) (http://i.imgur.com/6wNXP.png)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 30, 2011, 05:54:52 AM
what do you mean turn into a black hole?
does it just disappear, and you get a black hole effect?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Hyroen on December 30, 2011, 05:55:25 AM
^_^ Excited for one shard in particular.

Amazed in general.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on December 30, 2011, 05:56:23 AM
what do you mean turn into a black hole?
does it just disappear, and you get a black hole effect?
It disappears and a black hole is added to your hand. The wording could be improved but I do not have much room on the card.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: mesaprotector on December 30, 2011, 05:58:00 AM
Shard of Focus... wow. I'm mildly worried about the PC potential of this card, but the mechanic seems really interesting. Synergy with Rage Potion as well. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on December 30, 2011, 05:59:36 AM
Shard of Focus is the Earth shard, right? At first I thought it was Gravity, but it doesn't really give a bonus to Gravity decks.

EDIT: Well, Gravity Pull, Catapult, I guess it does give a bonus to Gravity. Still, it would sort of make sense as Earth shard too (Basilisk Blood, Heavy Armor).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on December 30, 2011, 06:00:56 AM
what do you mean turn into a black hole?
does it just disappear, and you get a black hole effect?
It disappears and a black hole is added to your hand. The wording could be improved but I do not have much room on the card.
Eh, it'll make sense once people experience it firsthand, like always.

By the way, just to make things clear:  What Element does Shard of Focus correspond to?

EDIT:  Friggin' ninjas.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on December 30, 2011, 06:01:32 AM
Shard of Focus is the Earth shard, right? At first I thought it was Gravity, but it doesn't really give a bonus to Gravity decks.
Gravity: you need gravity quanta if you want to use the black hole, or you can fling it with a catapult.
Edit: Or use acceleration to keep the shard in play and keep using it to destroy more permanents
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on December 30, 2011, 06:03:47 AM
Shard of Focus is the Earth shard, right? At first I thought it was Gravity, but it doesn't really give a bonus to Gravity decks.
Gravity: you need gravity quanta if you want to use the black hole, or you can fling it with a catapult.
Of course, I completely overlooked that. >.>

Now, Accretion doesn't seem to be an active, triggered ability. What is it? If it is, how much does it cost?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on December 30, 2011, 06:04:18 AM
Kay, next question:  Is the HP gain added to your HP like Stone Skin or does it only heal you for 10HP like ... Heal?

EDIT:  Completely misunderstood the card it seems, I am a dunderhead >_>
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on December 30, 2011, 06:04:36 AM
Shard of Focus is the Earth shard, right? At first I thought it was Gravity, but it doesn't really give a bonus to Gravity decks.
Gravity: you need gravity quanta if you want to use the black hole, or you can fling it with a catapult.
Of course, I completely overlooked that. >.>

Now, Accretion doesn't seem to be an active, triggered ability. What is it? If it is, how much does it cost?
Active, no cost.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: rowcla on December 30, 2011, 06:06:25 AM
Wait a minute, free reusable PC and really high health that can go much higher?

Am i failing to see something or is this just a little bit too powerful?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on December 30, 2011, 06:06:56 AM
3 random quanta and 4 turns to destroy up to 4 permanents (more with Rage Potion), and get a Black Hole? Seems very powerful compared to Pulverizer. I guess we'll see though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on December 30, 2011, 06:08:46 AM
Seems like it has some nice synergy with Gravity, except idk if many people will use it to gain the Black Hole... kinda seems like it's just a 'side effect' if you will. Idk :3
Still a nice/interesting card :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 30, 2011, 06:13:13 AM
first it was SoSe adding to the arena rainbows
now we get SoF replacing pulverizer?

I kinda think SoF is OP
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Bhlewos on December 30, 2011, 06:24:59 AM
Woohoo! Finally a Gravity shard! :D It's like Christmas all over again.

OP, maybe -- I guess we'll find out soon once people test...for now, I'm just glad Gravity has a shard.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: suxerz on December 30, 2011, 06:34:51 AM
Yeay! New updates! Though I'm not too excited about the new shard at the moment, I can't wait for the other shards and test them! :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on December 30, 2011, 06:37:56 AM
Woohoo! Finally a Gravity shard! :D It's like Christmas all over again.

OP, maybe -- I guess we'll find out soon once people test...for now, I'm just glad Gravity has a shard.
Agreed, and while black hole and the potential synergies with gravity are nice, it somehow doesnt ring shard unless it plainly gives a bonus to gravity (and there was obviously some confusion to the shard's element). I think a slight cost increase could be in order, but giving reusable PC that any element can use is an excellent change to the game. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Bhlewos on December 30, 2011, 06:45:44 AM
Upon some reflection I think this could find uses in rainbows as well (just like SoSe did, even though it was an Entropy card). The Black Hole comes only after four uses, so five turns, and in the meantime it's a great PC card. I'm afraid Gravity won't be strengthened as much by this Shard as rainbows will.

Still, we'll have to see. These are just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: rowcla on December 30, 2011, 06:53:12 AM
Course it can! matter of fact it can be used effectively in any deck, regardless of whether it has gravity! the PC provided is strong enough for it to not matter!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jocko on December 30, 2011, 06:55:41 AM
Shard of Focus is the Earth shard, right? At first I thought it was Gravity, but it doesn't really give a bonus to Gravity decks.
Gravity: you need gravity quanta if you want to use the black hole, or you can fling it with a catapult.
Edit: Or use acceleration to keep the shard in play and keep using it to destroy more permanents
Actually, you can't destroy more creatures if you accel the shard since it's lobo'd. But still, with that much HP you don't really need to keep it growing.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on December 30, 2011, 06:59:16 AM
Not to be a complete killjoy here, but it's hard having to follow two different discussions about the same card simultaneously in two different locations.  Therefore I would suggest comments specifically regarding Shard of Focus and its mechanics, balancing issues, etc. being directed to the thread posted for the card itself here:  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35191.0/topicseen.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on December 30, 2011, 07:07:35 AM
Not to be a complete killjoy here, but it's hard having to follow two different discussions about the same card simultaneously in two different locations.  Therefore I would suggest comments specifically regarding Shard of Focus and its mechanics, balancing issues, etc. being directed to the thread posted for the card itself here:  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35191.0/topicseen.html
True, but then there won't really be any discussion on this topic whatsoever.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on December 30, 2011, 08:01:19 AM
Shard of Focus seems too powerful to me.  It destroys 4 permanents over 4 turns at minimal cost.  In addition, if you combo it with cards like Aflatoxin, you can damage it and reuse it.  Shard of Focus actually combos extremely well with Grey Nymph, of all things :p  (unless the hp refers to max hp of the shard and not current hp, in which case my combo doesn't work)  Even just as a delayed Earthquake/Quicksand, this would be sick, and it should get a cost increase in part because of that.  Play it turn one and bump their towers off as they get them.  This would also combo extremely well with eternity, allowing unlimited use.  Do we really want -every- deck to be scared of playing all their towers turn 1, just because someone might have this card?
 
I can understand the need for permanent removal that is accessible to all elements, but this is too strong.  Perhaps if it only destroyed one or two permanents, and had a similar one turn delay like it does now?  0/10, +5hp and destroy a permanent, die at 0/20 and give a black hole?  I do like the idea of making it a creature, because that gives more ways of countering it, like lobotomy or damage or basilisk blood or whatever.

Another thing that could be done is to make Shard of Focus destroy opponent's permanents, but at random, so you might just destroy pillars, but you can still at least have a chance to destroy their shields and other important things.  That would probably require a rename, though, as that isn't particularly fitting with 'focus', but it would make for a more balanced card, although it still suffers from the pillar destroying problem at the beginning of the game, with that low other cost.

If random is unappealing, it could work off casting cost, and destroy the highest cost opponent's (nonpillar/pend, to avoid overshadowing earthquake) permanent each turn for a few turns, like 2.  That way, it would be predictable, and somewhat counterable (playing a graveyard to save your skull shield, etc)  In case of ties, the shard's owner would get the choice (or it could be random) and it still couldn't touch PAed cards.  I actually like this one the best, I think; make it destroy 1-2 nonpillar permanents, maybe +1 if your mark is earth, and have it pick the most expensive targetable nonpillar permanent your opponent has.  This gives it use without turning it into an overpowered colourless earthquake/pulverizer, and makes it harder to combo with eternity.  (you still could, but you'd have to activate eternity more often to keep it going than if it destroyed 4 permanents, and it would be more quanta-intensive than pulverizer)

If you wanted to keep people from using eternity on it, a counter could be that if shard of focus were rewound, it would turn into a random shard (or permanent) kind of like skeleton does now for creatures.  That has no thematic justification, but it would add an extra dimension to the card, though it increases the complexity, which is bad, especially as everything I've suggested already adds to its complexity.

The aether shard seems balanced to me.  It requires you to have a lot of them to get a useful effect, but if you do have a lot of them out, it's very strong.  If someone plays one or two of them, you won't even notice, but if they get to three, you're going to feel the pain, as being capped at 10(8) quanta will make a very appreciable game difference to most decks.  With two, you'd be at ~18 for a cap (depending on how rounding is handled; I'm assuming 75-37-18, but you could round up and go 75-38-19) and that's enough to affect a few decks, but not too many.  The math with 75 happens to work just right (possibly zanz-intended!) such that you need four of these to get them to the minimum of 8. (or 3 to get them to 10, regardless of whether you round up or down in both cases) 

Sorry if this is somewhat disjointed, I kind of added stuff to the middle as I went along :p  Short version; earth shard OP, aether shard is about right.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: rowcla on December 30, 2011, 08:06:34 AM
Goodness me, why has noone suggested grav pulls yet! the 10 hp every turn is likely to be enough for it to survive, and of course it prevents it from being turned into a black hole, furthermore you can even use armagios to redirect the grav pull if its about to die

You know i reckon one of things that should be done with SoF is that it should have a negative effect when it gets to 50 hp...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: jacker on December 30, 2011, 12:06:24 PM
I think that if the aether shard take the lead, that would be the end for monodecks, and everyone will start using only rainbow.

The gravity one...OP surely...i understand is a permanent for turn, but for merely 3 random quanta is sick
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 30, 2011, 12:29:57 PM
I'd like these to be in the trainer or beta, so we can test a bit. But as I said in the other thread, I don't like this shard one bit. :/
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: nilsieboy on December 30, 2011, 02:48:08 PM
can't wait for shard of focus, looks great!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Eleahen on December 30, 2011, 03:46:30 PM
Seems like SoF would be terribly op in the Arena.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Djhopper :) on December 30, 2011, 04:39:31 PM
Seems like SoF would be terribly op in the Arena.
+1

It really needs nerfing before it's put into the game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: hendrydext on December 30, 2011, 06:36:01 PM
I am happy seeing Zanz coming back.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

For SoF: why "destroy permanent"? I just think for other effect that suit for Gravity such as "make permanent disappear for 2 turns".
Destroying permanent is so evil i think..

But, overall, for other effect for SoF, i just like it...  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: jmdt on December 30, 2011, 07:03:17 PM
The aether shard is nice.  I don't particularly like the Gravity shard though.  I don't mind colorless PC, but the hp growth mechanic seems best suited for something else.  Also BH?  BH is only situationally helpful to :gravity.  Adding 3-5 :gravity quanta and making a limit on the uses of PC would be a nice step

I'd like to see :gravity get some unupped help in this patch.  Unupped merc, oty and charger are all underpowered and could use some love.

Also is there any chance we will see some nerf to nova and/or supernova in this patch?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Essence on December 30, 2011, 08:11:50 PM
I am happy seeing Zanz coming back.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

^^ This. I've been waiting, just barely paying attention (damn you, Dungeons of Dredmor!), for either WoE to restart or Zanz to come back, and I was really hoping it would be the latter. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on December 30, 2011, 08:36:07 PM
Hooray for new revealings!  :D
Shard of Conscience I'm fine with, as it's been around for a few months.
SoF, though, doesn't seem like a shard - not because it's a creature, but because it has nothing to do with the mark making a difference in its ability. The Mark is a major theme that ties shards to their respective elements. My suggestions are
1. Make the 'turning into a black hole' part a passive that can happen only if the mark is :gravity (and at some Hp amount).
2. Have it only gain the 10 Hp if the mark is :gravity.

I like #2 better than 1 because it adds the mark aspect, and also puts a limit on the destruction; also removes overshadowing of Pulverizer.
Having a mark requirement for Hp also adds to the 'focus' theme.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AchDeToni on December 30, 2011, 08:37:06 PM
SoF surely is way too strong, in this form its going to be a staple in most deck without pc.
Especially because its destroying pillars even if the opp hasnt got any permanents like shields or weapons!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on December 30, 2011, 11:43:42 PM
Is the gravity shard basically 4 free deflags in 4 turns? That definitely seems pretty strong considering it can be run in any deck for the mere cost of 3  :rainbow.
The aether shard seems to be sort of like SoV, the idea and concept is nice, but it doesn't look too useful.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pulli23 on December 31, 2011, 12:19:49 AM
Uhm aether is good I think if you have 6 of them - Draw 3 of them and the opponent has already a max quanta of 10.
But unless you get that amount (early) it's useless. Problem however is: if it gets any better it is op in my eyes, meaning this card will either win or lose you the game.


Now it seems a niece card, maybe useful for some oracle-false-gods.


FOCUS I don't fully understand: a "creature" that gets stronger the more perms it destroys? - Isn't that very OP combined with something like overdrive?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on December 31, 2011, 12:44:34 AM
Uhm aether is good I think if you have 6 of them - Draw 3 of them and the opponent has already a max quanta of 10.
But unless you get that amount (early) it's useless. Problem however is: if it gets any better it is op in my eyes, meaning this card will either win or lose you the game.


Now it seems a niece card, maybe useful for some oracle-false-gods.


FOCUS I don't fully understand: a "creature" that gets stronger the more perms it destroys? - Isn't that very OP combined with something like overdrive?
The aether shard is sort of weak, because you'll need to draw 3 cards to cap your opponent. Even then, most people don't bank their quanta like that, and the game is still playable when you have a 8 quanta cap. All it does is prevent you from summoning dragons and other high cost cards.

The card gains hp by destroying permanents. If you overdrive'd it, it'd lose it's ability to destroy permanents. I do still think that the ability to destroy permanents for free once per turn for four turns is too powerful.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pulli23 on December 31, 2011, 01:18:43 AM
Quote
All it does is prevent you from summoning dragons and other high cost cards.
Thus prevent quite a few of decks of using a combo - or even playing cards. Also decks that depend on things such as fractalling will be hurt badly: you can fractal a good monster, but you can't really play more than 1 a turn.

If you would only need 2 cards to cap it would be very OP - 3 I indeed consider on the vedge of UP, however as I said: you can't really increase it without making the shard counter basically anything. If 2 cards would limit the quanta to something like 13 (which is when a shard would limit the quanta by 5/12th - just a very little bit more than 1/2) getting those 2 in the start hand would simply cripple any opponent if his creatures aren't drawn the first 4-5 turns.
I think the price a bit low: 2 of them shouldn't really be playable on the very first turn (From towers alone). Maybe increase the price by 2/1?


Hmm wouldn't overdriving it when it gains 45 hp be very strong then? - kill 3 permanents and gain an almost unstoppable creature back. (heck obvious things such as reverse time would only hurt you more).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Havok13 on December 31, 2011, 01:57:29 AM
Hopefully these will turn up soon. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on December 31, 2011, 02:34:33 AM
For SoF, what if it started with 55 hp and lost 10 or 15 per destroyed permanent and turned into a black hole at 10 hp? or something similar?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on December 31, 2011, 06:40:10 AM
For SoF, what if it started with 55 hp and lost 10 or 15 per destroyed permanent and turned into a black hole at 10 hp? or something similar?
Black holes occur from supermassive stars dying.  Losing mass (HP) to become a black hole wouldn't make any sense.  Of course, as it is now, it technically doesn't make sense either, but at least the "flavor" is correct.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on January 01, 2012, 05:43:46 AM
For SoF, what if it started with 55 hp and lost 10 or 15 per destroyed permanent and turned into a black hole at 10 hp? or something similar?
Black holes occur from supermassive stars dying.  Losing mass (HP) to become a black hole wouldn't make any sense.  Of course, as it is now, it technically doesn't make sense either, but at least the "flavor" is correct.
Well, what would you call the opposite 'flavor'? A new gravity effect could be made based on it
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on January 01, 2012, 07:22:21 AM
For SoF, what if it started with 55 hp and lost 10 or 15 per destroyed permanent and turned into a black hole at 10 hp? or something similar?
Black holes occur from supermassive stars dying.  Losing mass (HP) to become a black hole wouldn't make any sense.  Of course, as it is now, it technically doesn't make sense either, but at least the "flavor" is correct.
Well, what would you call the opposite 'flavor'? A new gravity effect could be made based on it
not sure, but I feel like it probably wouldn't really fit gravity.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pikachufan2164 on January 01, 2012, 12:36:06 PM
For SoF, what if it started with 55 hp and lost 10 or 15 per destroyed permanent and turned into a black hole at 10 hp? or something similar?
Excuse me while I Fractal it, then Catapult the extra copies for massive damage :U

With this variation, Focuspult would be even more powerful and consistent than Titanpult, I daresay.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jocko on January 01, 2012, 03:44:18 PM
Focuspult. That name is so awesome for reasons i don't know.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pulli23 on January 01, 2012, 04:14:47 PM
For SoF, what if it started with 55 hp and lost 10 or 15 per destroyed permanent and turned into a black hole at 10 hp? or something similar?
Excuse me while I Fractal it, then Catapult the extra copies for massive damage :U

With this variation, Focuspult would be even more powerful and consistent than Titanpult, I daresay.
let it start at 15hp, and lose 5 hp per use.. On death it will trigger the black hole?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Pineapple on January 01, 2012, 05:31:25 PM
Ability cost should be a permanent you control. Otherwise, it's completely unbalance-able with Fractal.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on January 01, 2012, 09:18:40 PM
Why not make Fractalling shards as Mitosis'ing weapons? This is pretty much the same issue.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 01, 2012, 09:37:24 PM
Ability cost should be a permanent you control. Otherwise, it's completely unbalance-able with Fractal.
I actually like that suggestion; either a random permanent or one of your choice would work.  I had some of my own suggestions that I think I put either earlier in this thread or in the Shard of Focus thread; maybe some combination of those would work, or at least inspire an idea that will work.  I'd like to see this shard become viable, but I don't want it to overshadow every other permanent removal card out there; being an other card, it should be the weakest of the lot.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: hwy on January 02, 2012, 10:41:34 AM
Shard of Conscience‘s ablity is too limited.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: cosine23 on January 02, 2012, 12:07:24 PM
I´m not quite sure if I understood the SoF capability: can the SoF actively destroy permanents for free? Or do you still need Pulvy, Deflag etc. to destroy permaments, and SoF only benefits from their usage?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on January 02, 2012, 04:10:20 PM
I´m not quite sure if I understood the SoF capability: can the SoF actively destroy permanents for free? Or do you still need Pulvy, Deflag etc. to destroy permaments, and SoF only benefits from their usage?
So far, it's free.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on January 02, 2012, 06:33:39 PM
RIP Butterfly Effect. SoF is the most overpowered card I've seen in development so far, which is due to the low amount of PC in the game and the power of perms. I see no reason for Accretion to be free whatsoever, and the card itself should cost at least 5 like most other unupped shards. Conversely, SoC is still woefully situational and weak.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: plastiqe on January 02, 2012, 06:38:28 PM
Excuse me for playing moderator, but can't we keep the SoF discussion in the SoF thread?  Or are you guys just too intimidated by the OldTrees wall of math to respond there?  : P
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 02, 2012, 06:44:52 PM
Excuse me for playing moderator, but can't we keep the SoF discussion in the SoF thread?  Or are you guys just too intimidated by the OldTrees wall of math to respond there?  : P
Doesn't card discussion always magically leak over to the patch thread, anyway? I don't really see a problem with discussing it on two threads, though I do agree that more of this discussion should be had on the Shard of Focus thread.

Either way, I'm expecting to see some changes in both of these shards before they appear in the trainer. (I'm expecting an SoC buff and an SoF serious nerf/overhaul).  :air :earth :fire still need a shard, so I'm also interested in how those will play out in relation to the current shards we've seen so far ( :darkness :death :light :life all deal with HP ,  :time :entropy :aether :gravity all seems to work with 'factors' of the game such as quantum pools, PC, hand and creature abilities, and  :water is a mass buff spell . )
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: mwaetht on January 02, 2012, 06:57:06 PM
:darkness :death :light :life all deal with HP ,  :time :entropy :aether :gravity all seems to work with 'factors' of the game such as quantum pools, PC, hand and creature abilities, and  :water is a mass buff spell .
You know, I never noticed that before. I feel like an idiot.

What happened to the original "Lightning on a stick" idea for the :aether shard? That would be much more useful than what we have now. As it is, even if you restrict quanta pools to 8/10 quanta, that still means your opponent can use only one card per turn. Given that it'll take you a long time to gather all those shards, the rush-deck opponent will probably have all the quanta they need by then to play all their cards by the time you restrict them down to 8/10 quanta; they'll be only playing one card per turn, the card they draw, at that point anyways.

So rush decks will be affected only slightly. In contrast, control decks will be hurt more. Not much more, but they probably can't afford to play multiple CC/PC of the same element in the same turn. Rainbows will, of course, be almost completely unaffected.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on January 02, 2012, 06:59:19 PM
Excuse me for playing moderator
That's cute, but
then there won't really be any discussion on this topic whatsoever.
Even if vets followed a rule of discussing only in one topic, the rest won't (as seen in previous patch threads). That's fine because it evidently promotes discussion, since a player's first reaction to a card in this thread would be to comment on it here.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: plastiqe on January 02, 2012, 07:01:38 PM
As to the sentiment of everyone who is "expecting a nerf".  Well.. Shard of Sacrifice went live and it's pretty OP if you ask me.  I predict we'll see small balance changes to SoF but it will still be powerful enough to decimate the meta.  Another reason to just keep banning all Shards from pvp.

I am personally not excited at all for new Shards.  New rare other cards are not nearly as cool as say, a new set of rare weapons for each element could have been.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: cosine23 on January 02, 2012, 11:06:11 PM
I´m not quite sure if I understood the SoF capability: can the SoF actively destroy permanents for free? Or do you still need Pulvy, Deflag etc. to destroy permaments, and SoF only benefits from their usage?
So far, it's free.
At first glance, that sounds OP.  But let´s wait for the trainer testing to decide a verdict.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: plastiqe on January 03, 2012, 07:10:56 AM
Top 3 updates I'd like to see in Elements 1.30:
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: SnoWeb on January 03, 2012, 07:41:58 AM
One or two new cards based on player ideas from the Forge/Armory, both as a reward for the best ideas and encouragement for the whole card creation system.
I agree.  I personally stopped to create new cards even if I have new ideas - not because my card ideas weren't integrating the game but because almost no card idea was. 7 cards in the reliquary for thousands of cards ideas among which hundreds of good ones and tens of excellent ones. This very small number card idea indeed being integrated to the game is very frustrating.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on January 03, 2012, 08:05:50 AM
Top 3 updates I'd like to see in Elements 1.30:
  • New daily quests.
This. I'm pretty sure everyone wants some new quests to liven the game up some and give more goals than grind to being able to face opponent X and then having all the cards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: MrSinister on January 03, 2012, 08:07:47 AM
Well, first Hooray for two new shards. YAY  :D

Now to the details:

SoF:
Wow, this is scary. I'm glad gravity gets a Shard soon, but I never exspected it this Way. Colourless PC is powerful at all, 3 cost is defenitly too cheap and I don't understand why it should be that cheap, as Deflag just got nerfed in cost (while Fire should be the most destructive Element gravity is on the charge...).
For my favor the element-related aspect for SoF is too low. Getting a BH is nice and cool for Gravity....but not less cool for rainbows and for me thats a problem. I think it would be better to give more destructive power for gravity mark, something like:

"Destroy a Permanent and gain +0/+15 (possibly up to +20) (+0/+10 if you have gravity-mark). Generates a Blackhole in your Hand if Hp reaches 50."

SoC:
Very nice Idea but it feels a lot like SoV for aether. Sadly SoV is also a nice Idea but not that useful. The thing is: Having more than 4 SoVs still gives you a benefit, while you don't need more than 4 SoCs.
For SoC it would be very useful to give it an over-time-ability, for example "Reduces your opponents quanta storage capacity for 7 each turn, 10 if your mark is aether."
Not sure about the numbers, but I think something like that would improve this shard a lot.

General note on Shards:
They are still very annoying in arena; 24 rounds of SoSa is nothing but an autoquit, just as + 288 from 12 SoDs combined with loads of miracles. Therefore I'd  suggest a cost increase for all shards depending on how many Shards has been played. For most shards this would be just an increased cost of +1 quantum for each shard you have played before, while SoSa (where a nerf is needed the most) should incraese Damageinfliction (maybe -5 additional HP for every shard played before). Sadly the Shards are not balanced that good, so SoP would get a bigger nerf from this than SoSa, so the idea is not perfect for now, but I think it's an ineteristing way to think about...

Quote
New rare other cards are not nearly as cool as say, a new set of rare weapons for each element could have been.
signed, new weapons and/or shields would be awesome  :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 03, 2012, 01:11:40 PM
The more I think about Shards, the more I believe they would be MUCH better off as elemental cards. Some would need some serious nerfing in ANY case, but take a look at these:


(http://i.imgur.com/jNRIF.png) (http://i.imgur.com/yignV.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/QeHWk.png) (http://i.imgur.com/8j5SX.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/qPiLy.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ioqAE.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/eM3c2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Rm3pj.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/hHOBD.png) (http://i.imgur.com/NnVPn.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZQx3g.png) (http://i.imgur.com/1AE6p.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/k1olh.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Fk7wZ.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/8Wm46.png) (http://i.imgur.com/UMBds.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/ID3jk.png) (http://i.imgur.com/tWrZf.png)


Sure, they're far from perfect. But suddently Sacrifice can be compared to Dimensional Shield, Void to Poison, Focus to Deflagration... And, with some proper thought they could become way more flavorful. For instance, just renaming them to something like :light Spark of Divinity /  :life Regeneration /  :water Poseidon's Wrath /  :gravity Implosion /  :death Undead Vigor might be nicer...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on January 03, 2012, 01:57:00 PM
I don't know whether anyone have suggested this or not, but i feel like if there's going to be a set of 12 shards, they gotta go to their own elements. (true, they could go anywhere, but they give most use to its in-element. Not many want to use SoG for only 3 healing/turn.)
Though, the casting cost could still be  :rainbow . (like Animate Weapon or Luciferin/Luciferase)
Also reduce cluttering in element  :rainbow .
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: jmdt on January 03, 2012, 05:21:17 PM
I like what you did there mormegil.  That really makes the most sense from a balance perspective.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on January 03, 2012, 06:06:37 PM
Morm, I love it. It also allows the cards to be a bit more powerful without being OP, as they cost specific quanta instead of random. I especially like Implosion, mainly because it gives Gravy good, cheap CC that works on shards as well. Good job :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Elite arbiter on January 03, 2012, 08:55:32 PM
The idea of converting their costs to an element is interesting, although I'm not sure I want to get rid of the mark-based effects, since those are a good way to balance these cards. One thing I noticed and wanted to ask if you truly meant to imply Mormegil... do you think that Shard of Patience needs a heavy nerf? Since you changed its cost from 1  :rainbow to 3  :water, while every other shard received a quanta decrease, an effect increase, or both. (Except Implosion and Conscience.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Aves on January 03, 2012, 09:26:50 PM
The idea of converting their costs to an element is interesting, although I'm not sure I want to get rid of the mark-based effects, since those are a good way to balance these cards. One thing I noticed and wanted to ask if you truly meant to imply Mormegil... do you think that Shard of Patience needs a heavy nerf? Since you changed its cost from 1  :rainbow to 3  :water, while every other shard received a quanta decrease, an effect increase, or both. (Except Implosion and Conscience.)
The delay is gone, so it acts like a permanent repeatable eclipse for water.
This is an interesting idea, but does Gratitude really need to be made unstoppable?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on January 04, 2012, 12:20:29 AM
Morm, I love it. It also allows the cards to be a bit more powerful without being OP, as they cost specific quanta instead of random. I especially like Implosion, mainly because it gives Gravy good, cheap CC that works on shards as well. Good job :)
I'm glad you liked my idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30993). :)

I really dislike the idea of Gratitude as a spell, but other than that ... it seems shards as elemental cards makes an awful lot of sense. Hmm.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on January 04, 2012, 02:10:22 AM
Morm, I love it. It also allows the cards to be a bit more powerful without being OP, as they cost specific quanta instead of random. I especially like Implosion, mainly because it gives Gravy good, cheap CC that works on shards as well. Good job :)
I'm glad you liked my idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30993). :)

I really dislike the idea of Gratitude as a spell, but other than that ... it seems shards as elemental cards makes an awful lot of sense. Hmm.
Nahh sorry, I hated it until I saw that Morm posted on it :P.
Also, I agree that SoG should be a permanent instead of a spell :3
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: xdude on January 04, 2012, 08:31:59 AM
Morm, I love it. It also allows the cards to be a bit more powerful without being OP, as they cost specific quanta instead of random. I especially like Implosion, mainly because it gives Gravy good, cheap CC that works on shards as well. Good job :)
I'm glad you liked my idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30993). :)

I really dislike the idea of Gratitude as a spell, but other than that ... it seems shards as elemental cards makes an awful lot of sense. Hmm.
Nahh sorry, I hated it until I saw that Morm posted on it :P.
Also, I agree that SoG should be a permanent instead of a spell :3
I honestly think that's just a mistake on his part, considering there are no permanent spells (but there ARE permanent permanents).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on January 04, 2012, 08:35:01 AM
It could be like Shard of Sacrifice, which would make more sense (and be more balanced) as a permanent, as opposed to a status effect.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Helston on January 04, 2012, 01:08:50 PM
Why bother arguing about whether or not Regeneration should be a permanent when the answer is simply Rejuvenation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34369.0.html).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on January 04, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
When will 1.30 beta be released? I am sure there will apprear some broken decks, like the Deja-Vu's triplication.

I am sure it will be nerfed a bit, like an X turn delay instead of destroying.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 04, 2012, 06:24:11 PM
Morm, I love it. It also allows the cards to be a bit more powerful without being OP, as they cost specific quanta instead of random. I especially like Implosion, mainly because it gives Gravy good, cheap CC that works on shards as well. Good job :)
I'm glad you liked my idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30993). :)

I really dislike the idea of Gratitude as a spell, but other than that ... it seems shards as elemental cards makes an awful lot of sense. Hmm.
Oooops. Gratitude wasn't supposed to be a spell, it's a typo, gonna edit the post with the proper image. Although I'd really prefer the aforementioned Rejuvenation (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34369.0.html).

And yeah, Xeno, I like Implosion, I forgot it was your card though. Gonna edit in a proper credit too.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Pineapple on January 04, 2012, 06:42:13 PM
Folks, this is just a friendly, unaffiliated reminder that this thread is about the coming version of Elements.
If you want to discuss your fantasized version of the game, there's a board for that; it's called "Game Suggestions and Feedback".
If you want to discuss confirmed "Patch Notes" or relevant "Development News", carry on.


Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on January 04, 2012, 06:51:27 PM
Folks, this is just a friendly, unaffiliated reminder that this thread is about the coming version of Elements.
If you want to discuss your fantasized version of the game, there's a board for that; it's called "Game Suggestions and Feedback".
If you want to discuss confirmed "Patch Notes" or relevant "Development News", carry on.

This is what Patch wanted to say  :P

EDIT: Does someone know more or less when Beta is expected to be ready?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: lorddoritos on January 09, 2012, 06:35:39 AM
Please no more shards
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Essence on January 12, 2012, 05:23:31 AM
Sorry, doritos. there's going to be 1 shard per element before Zanz moves on to other new 'elemented' cards.  And the first of those, in theory, will be a :fire card.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on January 12, 2012, 12:27:39 PM
I'm very curious as to the Air shard. A buff to airbourne seems good, (I would assume an entire field buff, so that air as an element is most benefitted, rather than any deck with dragons - which was the problem with my plan, to have a spell enabling the creature to target anything during the turn itself, which could be modified to specific creatures/perms (such as bonewall), but also to attack opponents directly, like momentum only sundial/SoSa would not effect)

I guess whether it protects or buffs them will decide whether air becomes more controlling, or rushing.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 12, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
Is a fix for the negative score gain in bronze in work?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on January 12, 2012, 09:54:29 PM
Is a fix for the negative score gain in bronze in work?
It's a ridiculously simple 'bug' to fix, which makes me think Zanzarino implemented it intentionally, to discourage farming rares from Bronze.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: silux on January 15, 2012, 11:31:16 PM
That will make the game ever more long for collectionists!
The only thing that could bring me back playing is more common cards and upgrades costing less time.
10 hours to get resources for another deck feels frustrating, even more if you are a gold league player!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Winter Is Coming on January 23, 2012, 07:26:02 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to buy a full set of these as soon as they're released. Can't wait! :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 23, 2012, 10:03:28 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to buy a full set of these as soon as they're released. Can't wait! :)
What do you mean, "buy" them ? They are shards, i.e. rare cards, so cannot buy them in the bazaar, need to win them by spins -- either from a deck you beat which had them, or from a special spin in the arena.

BTW, I agree with the numerous people who stated that Shard of Focus is very OP as proposed, needs a serious nerf!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on January 23, 2012, 10:34:05 PM
What do you mean, "buy" them ? They are shards, i.e. rare cards, so cannot buy them in the bazaar, need to win them by spins -- either from a deck you beat which had them, or from a special spin in the arena.

BTW, I agree with the numerous people who stated that Shard of Focus is very OP as proposed, needs a serious nerf!
I think he means to donate for them  You can donate money via paypal; I think $5 gets you one upped shard.

And yes, Shard of Focus needs serious nerfing; I'd made some suggestions back at the beginning of this thread and a few others, but I'll just let Zanz figure it out.  I have no idea what's in his head, as I haven't seen any replies he's made yet (to me or anyone else), but I could've just missed them.  It seems to be his style to read everything people post and then make his own decisions, but he doesn't seem to give any intermediate feedback on things, unless it's done in chat or PMs or somewhere I don't see it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Winter Is Coming on January 24, 2012, 04:28:30 AM
I'm thinking I'm going to buy a full set of these as soon as they're released. Can't wait! :)
What do you mean, "buy" them ? They are shards, i.e. rare cards, so cannot buy them in the bazaar, need to win them by spins -- either from a deck you beat which had them, or from a special spin in the arena.

BTW, I agree with the numerous people who stated that Shard of Focus is very OP as proposed, needs a serious nerf!
Yes, I meant "buy" them as in donate to get the codes to unlock them. (Donating $5 gets you one rare card - any shard or a foil chimera, your choice.) I mean I could just wait it out and try to farm the arenas for them. But Zanz might appreciate my cash. So, when I say "buy" them, I literally mean, buy them. With real cash, not electrum.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Avenger on January 31, 2012, 07:15:24 PM
Are these new shards in public test?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on January 31, 2012, 07:21:12 PM
Are these new shards in public test?
Nope.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on January 31, 2012, 11:50:18 PM
This update is taking forever :( I wonder if we will see any special changes (ie interface, ect) since it is going from the 1.2x to 1.3
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: MV296 on February 05, 2012, 07:51:15 AM
This update is taking forever :( I wonder if we will see any special changes (ie interface, ect) since it is going from the 1.2x to 1.3
As awesome as that would be, what part of the interfact could be changed?
Also, really like both shards ideas, but the wording on the aether one (Not good with names) says it HALVES it down to ten.
Surely if it was halved then it would be
*Types furiously at calculator*
Um... 37.5? so 38?
Not 10.
Changing the wording will decrease my annoyance.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Sevs on February 05, 2012, 08:32:57 AM
This update is taking forever :( I wonder if we will see any special changes (ie interface, ect) since it is going from the 1.2x to 1.3
As awesome as that would be, what part of the interfact could be changed?
Also, really like both shards ideas, but the wording on the aether one (Not good with names) says it HALVES it down to ten.
Surely if it was halved then it would be
*Types furiously at calculator*
Um... 37.5? so 38?
Not 10.
Changing the wording will decrease my annoyance.

then another shard added decreases it down to 19, then another decreases it to 10. They stack
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Powerfrog on February 08, 2012, 06:03:00 PM
Shard of focus sounds waaaay overpowered.
It's like a less killable pulveriser that is cheap, works in any deck, is free to activate, and gives incredibley high denial/healing vs a rainbow (Hell, with their pillars gone, the denial is good even on a mono.)

Shard of Conscience on the other hand sounds quite useless. Three shards must be played to reduce their quanta to 10. Four to make it 8. First of all, most cards cost under this, and you generally play them as you get them. Secondly, even if they are high cost, you'll probably be able to play a few before your opponent gets 3-4 shards out.
I mean it would effect you a little in the end game, if you had 6 pillars and 4 quanta, you should have 10, but this caps you at 8. But i personally don't think that's big enough a nerf to put 4+ shards in my deck.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: mega plini on February 08, 2012, 07:29:46 PM
Shard of focus is not so cool; But that shard of conscious is awesome! It is everything you want against stall decks. A maximum quantacap of 8 means that farhrenheit is useless, together with fractal, stoneskin and all others.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: silux on February 09, 2012, 01:32:26 PM
More shards=more frustrating farming...

Conscience brings on the game a (1/2)^n curve which it's balanced pretty well with max 6 copies per deck.
A deck with 30 cards can lock opponent at 10 or 8 quanta around turn 15 having 6 shards in deck, forcing all non-sanctuary decks not to use more than 10 or 8 quanta per turn.
That itself is useless against rush decks, pillarless decks, any deck with more than 2 PC cards, rainbow decks and even stall decks.
It's a win against any slow fractal charging deck and helps with stoneskin.
Used by a fake god would be the RoL-Hope ultimate enemy.Unless Sanctuary...
It would be also requiring at least 1 week of farming to get 6 of these and make with them a good deck.
Suggestions
-spell form
-instead they raise your quanta cap
-opponent pays +2^n to play cards.n is the number of shards.

Focus would be the Conscience nemesis; one of them destroys 5 of them  and can be played also if there are 6 in play.
They would make Eternity a sort of mass permanent destroyer, until 4 permanent destroyed every turn and no end-deck loss.
As it is it should cost 18 or 20 :rainbow, given the ability and the hp.
Suggestions
-change destroy to when a permanent or creature is destroyed
- or lose 10 life as a cost for the ability
- no active ability, but a passive ability that makes he gain 10hp per turn, and black hole at 40.cost raised to 5 or 6.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AnimationX on February 11, 2012, 04:44:34 PM
Shard of Focus...gah
Ideas:
-Increase Cost
-Have the ability cost gravity quanta
-Give it more hp, have accretion make it lose hp, and have it come into play gravity pulled so you can't destroy as many permanents.

Note-Shard of Focus can be put in a Discord/BH deck to destroy those sancs. @_@
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on February 11, 2012, 05:33:40 PM
On a note unrelated to shards, I'm hoping Zanz will see this here.  The arena rating system is really messed up right now.  There's several threads on it, so I won't elaborate, but something happened to screw it up.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on February 27, 2012, 04:15:05 AM
Added Seraph to trainer, updated OP.

Now working on the shards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UTAlan on February 27, 2012, 04:18:02 AM
Added Seraph to trainer, updated OP.

Now working on the shards.
Hurray! Thanks, Zanz!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on February 27, 2012, 04:19:10 AM
Wow ... that was unexpected.

Looks great, Zanz! Time to test this baby out.

EDIT: Seraph and Shard of Focus images here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35190.msg473814#msg473814).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Onizuka on February 27, 2012, 04:20:07 AM
Dat unexpected card
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on February 27, 2012, 04:36:11 AM
I can't find Seraph in the trainer o.o
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on February 27, 2012, 04:37:46 AM
Hooray!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ddevans96 on February 27, 2012, 04:38:08 AM
I can't find Seraph in the trainer o.o
You have to buy it from the bazaar. If you're still not finding it, clear your cache.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on February 27, 2012, 04:47:11 AM
Whoa! Nice.
Looking forward to the next release.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on February 27, 2012, 04:49:38 AM
Whoa! Nice! Very neat! Seraph looks like a freaking awesome card as it's way more efficient than crimson dragon as well as having anti-CC.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on February 27, 2012, 05:00:23 AM
I can't find Seraph in the trainer o.o
You have to buy it from the bazaar. If you're still not finding it, clear your cache.
Yay thanks!

EDIT:

I have seen it's airbone, so... What do you think about this?
by Chapuz
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7n9 8po

(5x Seraph + Sky Blitz)
I know it's quite expensive, but the  :fire quanta can be easily obtained with Cremations -or epi+brimstone eater. Easy OTK.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: mesaprotector on February 27, 2012, 05:04:34 AM
...wow. This card looks pretty dang cool. The one thing that concerns me is that it might fit right into Sanc Firestall.

EDIT:
I can't find Seraph in the trainer o.o
You have to buy it from the bazaar. If you're still not finding it, clear your cache.
Yay thanks!

EDIT:

I have seen it's airbone, so... What do you think about this?
by mesaprotector
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7n9 8po

'

Well, I don't think it'll be much better than Sky Blitz + Ruby Dragon, since Seraph is basically a slightly weaker dragon. With an awesome ability.

I was thinking something more like this:

by mesaprotector
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 8po
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on February 27, 2012, 05:06:53 AM
I have seen it's airbone, so... What do you think about this?
by willng3
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7n9 8po

I think you're missing about 24 cards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on February 27, 2012, 05:15:44 AM
Would this card make dragons useless? It's way more efficient and comes with its own little shielding. Both are known for their fragile glass cannon tendencies (Any CC will kill either), so seraph is clearly better because it can protect itself.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on February 27, 2012, 05:19:38 AM
...wow. This card looks pretty dang cool. The one thing that concerns me is that it might fit right into Sanc Firestall.

EDIT:
I can't find Seraph in the trainer o.o
You have to buy it from the bazaar. If you're still not finding it, clear your cache.
Yay thanks!

EDIT:

I have seen it's airbone, so... What do you think about this?
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7n9 8po

'
Well, I don't think it'll be much better than Sky Blitz + Ruby Dragon, since Seraph is basically a slightly weaker dragon. With an awesome ability.

I was thinking something more like this:

by Absol
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 8po

First game, lose against Mono Aether. Other than that, looks good.
You can post the deck here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,213.0.html).
Would this card make dragons useless? It's way more efficient and comes with its own little shielding. Both are known for their fragile glass cannon tendencies (Any CC will kill either), so seraph is clearly better because it can protect itself.
Exactly what my first impression. However, this is still in beta, so we can hope for the balancing later.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on February 27, 2012, 05:24:40 AM
My first thought of seraph, a light/fire card was that I was afraid it would obsolete guardian angel. Now it looks like it'll obsolete the hard hitters of :fire.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on February 27, 2012, 05:38:25 AM
once again, fire is shown to be an element of persistence instead of a element that is fragile.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on February 27, 2012, 06:20:24 AM
Shard of Focus now in the trainer
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jocko on February 27, 2012, 06:23:27 AM
*fanboi scream*
Yay!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Essence on February 27, 2012, 06:24:04 AM
Damn, I literally just loaded up the trainer to test Seraph, got my first test deck built, and now I gotta reload and start over to play with Shard of Focus. :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on February 27, 2012, 06:24:21 AM
Gogo more permanent control!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jocko on February 27, 2012, 06:35:08 AM
Not sure if intended, when you cancel the activation you still get the +15, and you can't cancel the activation of the last use.
Also, SoF's >50hp check only executes on skill activation, if SoF gets more than 50hp by other means it won't get destroyed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on February 27, 2012, 06:47:56 AM
Not sure if intended, when you cancel the activation you still get the +15, and you can't cancel the activation of the last use.
Also, SoF's >50hp check only executes on skill activation, if SoF gets more than 50hp by other means it won't get destroyed.
Don't think the second is intended, but the first probably is. When you cancel a creature's ability, whatever happens still happens. A virus still dies, a warden is still delayed, and you still lose quanta even if you cancel and don't pick a target.

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on February 27, 2012, 07:10:46 AM
I'm always glad to see new cards in the works, and here's my two cents for anyone who cares:

Shard of Conscience: Balanced, by the fact that it takes quite a few of them to have any noticeable impact, but if you do get that many, the impact is huge.

Shard of Focus: Overpowered.  I've already discussed this one in the past in this thread; it needs serious nerfing, or every deck will be based around using it or countering it.

Seraph: I love the concept behind this card, but sadly it doesn't make thematic sense in fire (a seraph is essentially an angel) and it's also probably too powerful with that high of an attack.  I think it's also too similar to phoenix and crimson dragon, because they are both very heavy-hitting, low hp creatures, and the divine shield makes it hard to kill like phoenix.  I'd love to see a slightly nerfed attack version of this card, only in another element.  I'm also really liking the art on this one.

Just out of curiosity, why did seraph get picked as a card out of all of the ideas on this forum?  Seraph definitely has things going for it, but there are some really brilliant cards in the ideas forum that fit needs of certain elements far more than this one.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on February 27, 2012, 07:25:24 AM
Dun dun duun!
I can sense 1.30 coming out this week. Time to test the SoF!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Essence on February 27, 2012, 07:39:10 AM
by Essence
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6s2 6s2 6s2 7dh 7dh 7dh 7dh 7dh 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7ds 7ds 7ds 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7e4 7e4 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 8po



Really rough off-hand concept, walks through halfbloods like butter so far.  Lots of combos, lots of power.  Untargetable hitters plus mad permanent destruction = obscene.  (3x SoF, 6x Seraph.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zhangvict on February 27, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
O great now I have to farm the arena again. JK! I love that elements is getting updates.

Not sure if this is intended, but upped SoF turns into an unupped BH.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on February 27, 2012, 07:51:15 AM
Is Seraph intended to be a rare, a la Squid/Pharaoh/Miracle style, or will it be buyable in the bazaar?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on February 27, 2012, 07:54:11 AM
Is Seraph intended to be a rare, a la Squid/Pharaoh/Miracle style, or will it be buyable in the bazaar?
As of now, it appears to be normal cards. It doesn't have the rare band on the upper left.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: teffy on February 27, 2012, 11:21:03 AM
Is it intended, that a quinted Seraph can lose its immortality after one turn, when it uses Divine Shield ?

Opinion to cards: similar to dragonsdemesne.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on February 27, 2012, 11:27:19 AM
so it means the shard for fire elements won't be so soon and have to wait is it?? since one fire card has been made which is seraph.....
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on February 27, 2012, 02:50:46 PM
has anyone tried to build a deck with saraph and gravity pull?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UTAlan on February 27, 2012, 03:01:15 PM
has anyone tried to build a deck with saraph and gravity pull?
Yes (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,213.0.html).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: majofa on February 27, 2012, 03:04:58 PM
has anyone tried to build a deck with saraph and gravity pull?
Yes (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,213.0.html).
Actually, no.
The Seraph would die after only 1 hit (it only has 1 health). The ability makes it untargetable, not invincible.
SoF, yes.. UTAlan made one of those.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UTAlan on February 27, 2012, 03:06:19 PM
Oops. Yeah, what majofa said. I read what I thought you wrote, not what you actually wrote. >.<
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: majofa on February 27, 2012, 03:09:49 PM
Maybe what he wrote wasn't what he actually meant at all, but instead what he meant is what you read, as opposed to what he wrote was what you mistook for what he meant?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on February 27, 2012, 03:18:56 PM
ah, whoops, played with it a bit last night and then when i woke up this morning i had thought it was "cant be damaged", been playing around with thunderslug and other 'resistive' ideas too much lately i suppose.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Moraku on February 27, 2012, 03:46:48 PM
Is it intended, that a quinted Seraph can lose its immortality after one turn, when it uses Divine Shield ?

Opinion to cards: similar to dragonsdemesne.
That's actually an interesting effect. This way you can Fractal Seraph after it has been quinted.
Also let's you set up an Eternity loop in case you deck out and only have quinted Seraphs left over.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on February 27, 2012, 04:33:40 PM
Just out of curiosity, why did seraph get picked as a card out of all of the ideas on this forum?  Seraph definitely has things going for it, but there are some really brilliant cards in the ideas forum that fit needs of certain elements far more than this one.
I'm pretty sure the reason was that a fire card needed to be made, since fire hasn't gotten anything for so long.  Yes, other elements have more needs, but you can't leave fire with just 13 (or however many it has) cards just because it has all bases covered.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on February 27, 2012, 04:38:12 PM
Doesn't really make for a compelling case when Aether is stuck at 13 too and is less complete as an element. I wouldn't assume anything about card creation besides the fact that Zanz will do what he feels like. If it's cool, why the heck not.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on February 27, 2012, 04:38:40 PM
Just out of curiosity, why did seraph get picked as a card out of all of the ideas on this forum?  Seraph definitely has things going for it, but there are some really brilliant cards in the ideas forum that fit needs of certain elements far more than this one.
I'm pretty sure the reason was that a fire card needed to be made, since fire hasn't gotten anything for so long.  Yes, other elements have more needs, but you can't leave fire with just 13 (or however many it has) cards just because it has all bases covered.
Despite that, I think we can all agree that what would really be best would be for a large number of cards to be added, both to "stale" elements like fire and "needy" elements like life. I know zanz is busy and probably has his own plans, but it would be nice to see some of those armory cards get in.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on February 27, 2012, 05:28:25 PM
but still i hope a shard with affinity for fire will be made soon.... i am anticipating that card actually... and in the development area i hope the fire lion will make it to the elements.... not saying i don't like seraph added.... i like that card too...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Wolfunit on February 27, 2012, 06:01:53 PM
The update is looking good. :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: antiaverage on February 27, 2012, 08:56:23 PM
Added Seraph to trainer, updated OP.

Now working on the shards.
Thank you. Any chance you could add the cards, unupped and upped, to the "All Cards" button? Currently we have to buy and up to use, which is fine for now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ddevans96 on February 27, 2012, 11:00:35 PM
He usually does that when the cards are released in the full game as well.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on February 27, 2012, 11:52:44 PM
Doesn't really make for a compelling case when Aether is stuck at 13 too and is less complete as an element. I wouldn't assume anything about card creation besides the fact that Zanz will do what he feels like. If it's cool, why the heck not.
maybe there's another aether card coming soon as well?

And correct me if I'm wrong (I probably wasn't around at the time), but I think aether got it's 13th card much later than fire.  So there's been a larger gap of time between new fire cards.

And even if I'm completely wrong in everything I just said, I do know that zanz himself said that the next (non-shard) card he was making was fire.  Which is why this card isn't light/life/another element with needs.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: majofa on February 28, 2012, 12:01:52 AM
Silence - Patch v1.26 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17535.0.html) - December 12, 2010
Phoenix - Patch v1.21 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4066.0.html) - March 16, 2010
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on February 28, 2012, 12:15:41 AM
thx, majofa. dang, there were 6 patches during that 9 month span?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AnimationX on February 28, 2012, 01:32:20 AM
Discord/BH rises again.
by AnimationX
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6s2 6s2 6s2 6s2 6s2 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74d 74d 74f 74f 74f 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pl

???-SoF
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 28, 2012, 01:38:51 AM
And also: PC for early pillars, sanctuaries, and shields.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Essence on February 28, 2012, 04:45:32 PM
Just gave that deck a whirl, AnimationX.  I'm impressed. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on February 28, 2012, 05:22:52 PM
yeah, ive been playing around with SoF in a few decks, it fits into a wide variety of decks.  gravity pull on these is more effective than amigos, mitosis (optionally with SoR) on these is silly good, or fractal if you prefer, and adrenaline/acceleration or catapult are all viable tactics which focus on shard of... focus.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on February 28, 2012, 05:47:39 PM
@Moomoose:  I just suddenly had a vision of monolife using SoF, SoR, and mitosis, along with SoG/Feral Bond for healing, spine carapace for creature killing, and so on.  Go monolife!  :)

re Seraph: As others have mentioned, this isn't a game-breaking card.  I mentioned earlier that it's quite similar to other fire cards, and others have pointed out that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it means that Seraph won't be warping the metagame in the way shard of focus will if left unaltered.  I still think it's a little bizarre in the fire element, but I'm willing to forgive that if it means we get it implemented, since I love seeing the game expand.

@those who said aether needs a new card instead of fire: Maybe we'll see a new aether card posted by zanz soon... After all, the 'in development' page has grown from SoC to SoC+SoF to SoC+SoF+Seraph, so perhaps he's got even more cards lurking somewhere that only he knows about :)  Just because Fire is getting Seraph doesn't mean Aether won't get something, too.

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on February 28, 2012, 05:59:29 PM
let us hope the shards for other elements(fire, earth, etc) will be in the development page soon too...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on February 29, 2012, 01:50:32 AM
has anyone tried to build a deck with saraph and gravity pull?
Yes (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,213.0.html).
Actually, no.
The Seraph would die after only 1 hit (it only has 1 health). The ability makes it untargetable, not invincible.
SoF, yes.. UTAlan made one of those.
I made one (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37057.0.html) as well.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on February 29, 2012, 04:10:15 AM
So, 1.293 was released but there is no Seraph in the Bazaar. Is it rare?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on February 29, 2012, 04:17:56 AM
So, 1.293 was released but there is no Seraph in the Bazaar. Is it rare?
this is elements 1.3 patch, not 1.293...

Also, once the patch goes live, zanz always waits a day before putting the cards in so that all players are switched to the new version.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on February 29, 2012, 01:50:01 PM
So, 1.293 was released but there is no Seraph in the Bazaar. Is it rare?
this is elements 1.3 patch, not 1.293...

Also, once the patch goes live, zanz always waits a day before putting the cards in so that all players are switched to the new version.
hummm oops  ::)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: skulllair on March 01, 2012, 11:08:13 PM
where can i find the trainer?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 01, 2012, 11:13:08 PM
http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html

i think this is the site.....
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Toxx on March 03, 2012, 01:41:07 AM
Zanz! Please try to include "Quantum Pendulum" along with this or a upcomung update. It will make so many more decks and strategies possible... http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14083.48.html.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 03, 2012, 02:51:43 AM
I believe i remember zanz saying that he has considered adding them. Even if he hasnt said it, im sure he has considered it in the past, and chose on purpose to NOT add them since they get rid of the randomness of quantum towers.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Toxx on March 03, 2012, 04:04:36 PM
I think Quantum Towers and Quantum Pendulums can both exist in the game well together. Quantum Tower decks which will be more rainbow focused utlizing all the elements and Quantum Pendulum decks will be more focused on the element of choice with just a hint rainbowness to use a creature ability or introduce some useful qualities that element doesn't have. If Zanz already gave it a second look though and rejected it, then so be it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 04, 2012, 12:50:58 AM
shard of bravery is out.... i have been waiting for a shard for fire affinity and now it is out.... hope it got released into the elements for real
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 04, 2012, 12:59:54 AM
some words from chat, (slightly edited to retain context a little better, and removed a convo about copyright stuffs)
[17:13:56] zanzarino: Hi everyone :)
[17:14:26] zanzarino: I am going to go and fix the link to chat on the homepage.
[17:14:56] zanzarino: I am also going to post an idea for the fire shard in a few mins
[17:15:32] zanzarino: Back in a few mins when I am done with those tasks
[17:22:39] zanzarino: www.elementsthegame.com/development.html
[17:22:58] zanzarino: I'll code it asap so we can try it
[17:23:59] zanzarino: Just two words about Seraph before I go back to programming.
[17:24:52] zanzarino: It was not intended to introduce new mechanics for the fire element, no need for that at this point, just a bit of variety and a great piece of art.
[17:25:33] Xenocidius: ‹@zanzarino› Was Shard of Bravery based on Shard of Passion? elementscommunity.com/forum/index.php?topic=32655.0
[17:27:14] zanzarino: Shard of passion looks very similar to my first idea for the fire shard that i shared in chat a long time ago
[17:27:50] zanzarino: But I did a bit of math and the mechanic is easily broken with a firestall
[17:28:25] zanzarino: Wait to have 6 in your hand while stalling, play them all at the same time and you opponent simply decks out: win
[17:29:25] zanzarino: No, I would say not inspired
[17:29:57] zanzarino: In fact probably napalm remembers me speaking about a fire shard that forced the opponent do draw cards a long time ago
[17:30:10] ~Napalm: Inded. (sic)
[17:31:46] zanzarino: No, this new version should not work that well in a firestall, you draw cards very rapidly and you should take advantage of that
[19:01:37] zanzarino: Ok, shard of bravery now in the trainer
[19:01:57] zanzarino: I tried to make the AI play smart with it, but it is not as easy as it sound
[19:02:25] zanzarino: Which probably means that the AI will do something very stupid soon. Enjoy
[19:03:21] zanzarino: I played a bit with it and it was fun, very fast games.
[19:04:40] zanzarino: Use SoBe as an acronym, that way it sounds more like an energy drink
[19:05:53] teffy: zanzarino, could an idea like mine in Game Suggestions be implemented ? Customizable HP, card draw or visible hands for PvP Duel.
[19:07:16] zanzarino: Teffy, just keep posting in game suggestions, when I am done with this batch of new cards I'll focus on other features
[19:07:33] zanzarino: Sit down and read as much as I can from that forum section
[19:08:31] zanzarino: I'll probably focus on quests, but other quick fixes or easy to implement features might jump up in the "to-do" list
[19:11:48] zanzarino: I am still thinking about the air and aether shards. I think I have a pretty solid idea for the earth shard so I am good with that one.
[19:16:02] zanzarino: Not completely sure yet about aether shard, that is why it is not coded yet.
[19:16:33] zanzarino: Hopefully I'll manage to create a dynamic daily quest and a storyline quest for each element
[19:16:49] zanzarino: To be completed in normal and hard mode (for veterans)
[19:17:14] zanzarino: Shard of earth will combine all the shards in your hand in a shard golem
[19:17:43] zanzarino: A creature with stats and skills customized to how many/which shard was used
[19:18:04] zanzarino: But the skill cost is set to be in earth quanta
[19:19:07] drolly: ‹@zanzarino› Great. But would it be of use without other shards then?
[19:19:45] zanzarino: You get a golem similar in stats to an antlion
[19:20:04] zanzarino: Using only earth shard in your hand
[19:19:53] Iman00b8: ‹@zanzarino› Are shards for the remaining elements going to be released with v1.30, or would some of them come after that
[19:20:16] zanzarino: All in 1.30
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: teffy on March 04, 2012, 01:03:53 AM
full chat log is normally here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17265.216.html)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 04, 2012, 01:08:57 AM
ah, ive been ignoring that thread because it says 'updated march 2011' in the title
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: antiaverage on March 04, 2012, 01:13:07 AM
[19:04:40] zanzarino: Use SoBe as an acronym, that way it sounds more like an energy drink
I went ahead and added this, along with abbreviations for the other shards, to the game glossary (I'm "haruspex" on the wiki):
http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/resources/elements-glossary/

Someone should give the shards their own page sometime soon, along with the new Seraph card.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on March 04, 2012, 01:21:11 AM
[20:17:25] zanzarino: Do not worry too much about SoBe being OP there are easy fixes.
[20:17:25] majofa: what did i miss?
[20:17:32] Zblader: ‹@willng3› Great! Grinders all over the Elements world can now make money much faster!
[20:17:47] bogtro: ‹@zanzarino› :D it's a zanz
[20:17:49] Zblader: ‹@majofa› New shard.
[20:17:52] Zblader: Hiya Zanz!
[20:17:56] zanzarino: And SN is about to get a small change in the way it works.
[20:17:58] willng3: Hush not so loud, zanz will hear you.
[20:18:05] Xenocidius: ‹@zanzarino› Woo!
[20:18:05] Higurashi: Oh good.
[20:18:09] bogtro: YUSHHHHHH
[20:18:10] Cheesy111: ‹@zanzarino› Very cool!
[20:18:11] mesaprotector: ‹@zanzarino› Like nerfing instosis?
[20:18:13] zanzarino: I am thinking about it generating singularities if used more than once per turn
[20:18:14] Zblader: SoBe is kinda broken btw :S
[20:18:17] Jenkar: ‹@zanzarino› :o
[20:18:18] Wizardcat: Interesting. Do elaborate.
[20:18:23] antiaverage: anyone trying out Pestal with SoC?
[20:18:23] mesaprotector: Yay SN change!
[20:18:27] TheonlyrealBeef: SN nerf? :D
[20:18:27] Iman00b8: ‹@zanzarino› SN Nerf? Yay!
[20:18:31] skotadi phobos: hey zanz
[20:18:34] Iman00b8: Grr Beefy y u ninja?
[20:18:37] Onizuka: Oh god.
[20:18:42] willng3: SoC isn't released.
[20:18:44] zanzarino: And singularities are not going to be good for you, they will start playing against you.
[20:18:45] Onizuka: Waterbow noooooooooooooooo
[20:18:46] Zblader: ‹@zanzarino› As in singular draws? That still makes it kind of like a Precog.
[20:18:46] teffy: What kind of Singularity
[20:18:53] Higurashi: Get 2-turned, Akebonub~
[20:19:06] Zblader: Ah nvrmind. But how does singularity = Bravery?
[20:19:09] zanzarino: Stealing quanta, healing opponent, hurting you, duplicating etc.
[20:19:13] Jenkar: Sounds nifty. SN is probably the card most in need of a nerf.
[20:19:16] Muffinesque: Hm... I was playing in the trainer and when the ai used duality on my SoB it gave me two of them in my hand.
[20:19:21] willng3: Sweeet.
[20:19:21] Higurashi: He's talking about SN..
[20:19:22] Bayne232: link to Xeno's deck please? =D
[20:19:32] zanzarino: Going to go have dinner. Later
[20:19:35] Muffinesque: Er not on it but you know.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zhangvict on March 04, 2012, 05:54:20 AM
ZOMG new cards so excited!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 04, 2012, 07:57:31 AM
ya me too... hope they are released for real soon...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 05, 2012, 01:08:40 AM
Updated trainer with the following:

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: YoungSot on March 05, 2012, 01:34:24 AM
That's a pretty small change to discord, but I'm glad it's in your sights! Thanks for working on the meta-game like this.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2012, 01:43:15 AM
Use nova in moderation? Makes it sound like a drug.  :))
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Sevs on March 05, 2012, 02:00:18 AM
Ugh i hate that Sanc is like the default counter to stuff, In every sort of denial it is always "blocked by sanctuary". can this be split up between other cards? as of now Sanc blocks silence, discord, BH, pests, nightmare. and potentially The aether shard and SoB.  i think that is all but 5 in game cards is a lot and then adding 2 more?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: jippy99 on March 05, 2012, 02:13:27 AM
Sevs puts up a good point.  Sanctuary is one of the few cards that can counter a wide range of cards.  We need more counters to cards like BH and Discord before adding more cards that only have Sanctuary as a counter.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 05, 2012, 06:14:27 AM
I was actually thinking that SN could be nerfed by making it physically impossible to chain. Or drain all :entropy. But this one is nice too.
Though, this would make a few FGs become more stupid (hello Dream Catcher)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2012, 06:19:17 AM
I was actually thinking that SN could be nerfed by making it physically impossible to chain. Or drain all :entropy. But this one is nice too.
Though, this would make a few FGs become more stupid (hello Dream Catcher)
Shouldn't be hard to reprogram AI not to chain.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on March 05, 2012, 06:25:02 AM
Though, this would make a few FGs become more stupid (hello Dream Catcher)
Since FGs get double everything, besides mark, maybe they can get 4 chained without singularity
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zhangvict on March 05, 2012, 06:31:54 AM
Though, this would make a few FGs become more stupid (hello Dream Catcher)
Since FGs get double everything, besides mark, maybe they can get 4 chained without singularity
That would horrendously overpower FG's. They already have double draw, getting 2x SN. Now they can chain 3 SN w/o singularity when we can only chain 1.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 05, 2012, 06:41:16 AM
I was actually thinking that SN could be nerfed by making it physically impossible to chain. Or drain all :entropy. But this one is nice too.
Though, this would make a few FGs become more stupid (hello Dream Catcher)
Shouldn't be hard to reprogram AI not to chain.
If mutation work for on it, then Chaos Lord would get a new fodder.
Mutaters gonna mutate.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 05, 2012, 06:43:00 AM
ya i agree.... FG will be too overpowered in this case.... they should be affected too..... when currency changes, not only the people suffer the country too.... just a metaphor..
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Acsabi44 on March 05, 2012, 10:53:40 AM
Sevs puts up a good point.  Sanctuary is one of the few cards that can counter a wide range of cards.  We need more counters to cards like BH and Discord before adding more cards that only have Sanctuary as a counter.
Ugh i hate that Sanc is like the default counter to stuff, In every sort of denial it is always "blocked by sanctuary". can this be split up between other cards? as of now Sanc blocks silence, discord, BH, pests, nightmare. and potentially The aether shard and SoB.  i think that is all but 5 in game cards is a lot and then adding 2 more?
Thing is, Sanctuary's description is not "prevent the effect of Nigthmare, Discord, Pest and BH", but "prevent your hand and quanta base from being modified on the opponent's turn." this means that whenever a hand or quanta- altering card comes out, Sancturay will naturally protect from it. And I'm okay with that.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheManuz on March 05, 2012, 12:25:33 PM
Thing is, Sanctuary's description is not "prevent the effect of Nigthmare, Discord, Pest and BH", but "prevent your hand and quanta base from being modified on the opponent's turn." this means that whenever a hand or quanta- altering card comes out, Sancturay will naturally protect from it. And I'm okay with that.
Me too. I know that Sanctuary can counter many things, but if we (for example) split it into two cards, one protecting hand and the other protecting quanta, they would be UP and too situational.
But maybe we need other cards that give protection. Maybe some creature or permanent (other than :light) that protect hand or quanta (only one of them, not both).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on March 05, 2012, 12:37:02 PM
Thing is, Sanctuary's description is not "prevent the effect of Nigthmare, Discord, Pest and BH", but "prevent your hand and quanta base from being modified on the opponent's turn." this means that whenever a hand or quanta- altering card comes out, Sancturay will naturally protect from it. And I'm okay with that.
Me too. I know that Sanctuary can counter many things, but if we (for example) split it into two cards, one protecting hand and the other protecting quanta, they would be UP and too situational.
Not really, at least not in my opinion.
As is, Sanctuary is good enough a card if it countered nothing at all, 4 healing per turn is nothing to scoff at. In fact, I hate Sanctuary, a lot, yet I keep using it: it's too good not to use. I don't think Sanctuary getting more cards it counters is a bad thing, instead, it should give a little less healing to focus more on countering these cards and less on being a source of healing... maybe?

Or, indeed, split it up into two cards (both also giving healing), the hand protection maybe being a Time card (they'd surely benefit greatly from it).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: SnoWeb on March 05, 2012, 04:07:03 PM
As is, Sanctuary is good enough a card if it countered nothing at all, 4 healing per turn is nothing to scoff at. In fact, I hate Sanctuary, a lot, yet I keep using it: it's too good not to use. I don't think Sanctuary getting more cards it counters is a bad thing, instead, it should give a little less healing to focus more on countering these cards and less on being a source of healing... maybe?

Or, indeed, split it up into two cards (both also giving healing), the hand protection maybe being a Time card (they'd surely benefit greatly from it).
I agree with the last. Sanctuary should be turn into too cards: One protecting the hand (from nightmare, silence, SoB) and one protecting the quanta pools (from BH, discord, devourer). Each of these should have another effect to make it less situational. Sanctuary would heal and protect the hand (or the pools if the community/Zanz/you prefer(s)), the other card (time for example but water would work too) would protect the pools (or [...bla] prefer(s)) and do something else (like reflect poison or remove delays).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2012, 04:53:02 PM
What if the amount Sanctuary heals is reduced based on the number you have in play?
1 -- 4 hp = 4 hp
2 -- 4 hp, 3 hp = 7 hp
3 -- 4 hp, 3 hp, 2 hp = 9 hp
4 -- 4 hp, 3 hp, 2 hp, 2 hp = 11 hp
5 -- 4 hp, 3 hp, 2 hp, 2 hp, 1 hp = 12 hp
6 -- 4 hp, 3 hp, 2 hp, 2 hp, 1 hp, 1 hp = 13 hp

The coding would be simple and the text could be changed to: 'Heal up to 4 HP per turn.'
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 05, 2012, 07:19:16 PM
i think i agree. sanctuary is too useful in the newer version. with this it will be more balanced.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: daccoo on March 05, 2012, 07:36:22 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: omegareaper7 on March 05, 2012, 07:51:00 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
Hardly impossible if you take a little time to think
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 05, 2012, 09:24:42 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
wow... where have u been farming? how come at level 60 you have no shards??
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ddevans96 on March 05, 2012, 09:57:13 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
wow... where have u been farming? how come at level 60 you have no shards??
Not what he said. He said he doesn't have ALL of them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: daccoo on March 05, 2012, 10:37:15 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
wow... where have u been farming? how come at level 60 you have no shards??
First of all m8 i play this game for a long time ... Second top50 was much better for farming rare cards then now ... FG now is easy to beat but i had to work my self and playing about 300 games for some chance to beat them with my first FG deck ( full upped rol/hope) then there was CC why bother etc. etc... farming is not that important m8... i lost today vs deck that had  :death mark .  :death pillars and 12 shards ( i do not want to comment that ) after 2.5k games that i played i lose vs 3 CARD DECK... and someone wants to tell me that new shards are not owerpowerd- ... plz skip it ...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: daccoo on March 05, 2012, 10:38:27 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
wow... where have u been farming? how come at level 60 you have no shards??
Not what he said. He said he doesn't have ALL of them.
This is why i think of you as the best elements player for a long time ...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Aves on March 05, 2012, 10:50:05 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
wow... where have u been farming? how come at level 60 you have no shards??
First of all m8 i play this game for a long time ... Second top50 was much better for farming rare cards then now ... FG now is easy to beat but i had to work my self and playing about 300 games for some chance to beat them with my first FG deck ( full upped rol/hope) then there was CC why bother etc. etc... farming is not that important m8... i lost today vs deck that had  :death mark .  :death pillars and 12 shards ( i do not want to comment that ) after 2.5k games that i played i lose vs 3 CARD DECK... and someone wants to tell me that new shards are not owerpowerd- ... plz skip it ...
1. One of the reasons T50 is gone is because of the large number of rare farms, such that rares weren't rare at all.
2. Arena breaks SoX, not the other way around. Have you tried it, either using it or playing against it, in a normal setting? You'll notice that most of the shards are more or less fine in a normal setting. Your example sounds like SoX is OP, but remember that it was against a deck that was made to be OP, as arena decks of that level are supposed to be.

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: daccoo on March 05, 2012, 11:01:55 PM
Just want to LoL this ... i have deck lvl 60 , about 600 upped cards and i still do not have all shards that you put up in last patch and you put more INPOSIBLE TO BEAT ones...
wow... where have u been farming? how come at level 60 you have no shards??
First of all m8 i play this game for a long time ... Second top50 was much better for farming rare cards then now ... FG now is easy to beat but i had to work my self and playing about 300 games for some chance to beat them with my first FG deck ( full upped rol/hope) then there was CC why bother etc. etc... farming is not that important m8... i lost today vs deck that had  :death mark .  :death pillars and 12 shards ( i do not want to comment that ) after 2.5k games that i played i lose vs 3 CARD DECK... and someone wants to tell me that new shards are not owerpowerd- ... plz skip it ...
1. One of the reasons T50 is gone is because of the large number of rare farms, such that rares weren't rare at all.
2. Arena breaks SoX, not the other way around. Have you tried it, either using it or playing against it, in a normal setting? You'll notice that most of the shards are more or less fine in a normal setting. Your example sounds like SoX is OP, but remember that it was against a deck that was made to be OP, as arena decks of that level are supposed to be.
1. i do not want to comment this ...
2.I still thing that FG decks should be more challenging then arena decks ... "Your example sounds like SoX is OP, but remember that it was against a deck that was made to be OP, as arena decks of that level are supposed to be."( i do not want to comment this x2)

Arena what lvl ? gold ,silver (try pestal) i farmed about 40 k electrum just from EM didnt get reres but i did get a lot of coins ... for bronze easy one you can go with fully upped CC why bother deck ... about 90 % win rate i think ... i lost max 10 games that i can remember ...

Only thing i do not like is when i get beaten x times cuz of 1 card ... 
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 05, 2012, 11:15:15 PM
2.I still thing that FG decks should be more challenging then arena decks ...
Dont fall into this trap. This may be your interpretation of how the game should be, but its not how the game IS. Theres a reason Zanz doesnt have shards in the FG's. BEcause he knows they are overpowered in a situation like that. I wish I found the quote, but Zanz has said that the arena, especially platinum, is the "AI lvl 7" that people have been wanting.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheManuz on March 06, 2012, 01:49:31 PM
2.I still thing that FG decks should be more challenging then arena decks ...
Dont fall into this trap. This may be your interpretation of how the game should be, but its not how the game IS. Theres a reason Zanz doesnt have shards in the FG's. BEcause he knows they are overpowered in a situation like that. I wish I found the quote, but Zanz has said that the arena, especially platinum, is the "AI lvl 7" that people have been wanting.
Ehm... i'll drop a little provocation here... if Arena Platinum is AI lvl7, why it spins unupped cards???  ::)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 06, 2012, 01:57:14 PM
2.I still thing that FG decks should be more challenging then arena decks ...
Dont fall into this trap. This may be your interpretation of how the game should be, but its not how the game IS. Theres a reason Zanz doesnt have shards in the FG's. BEcause he knows they are overpowered in a situation like that. I wish I found the quote, but Zanz has said that the arena, especially platinum, is the "AI lvl 7" that people have been wanting.
Ehm... i'll drop a little provocation here... if Arena Platinum is AI lvl7, why it spins unupped cards???  ::)
Actually that's a good idea. But the answer is to not encourage farming. Probably.
Or the same reason HB spin is frustrating. 2 upped + 1 unupped spin = no card. And we'll get a n00b complaining again.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 06, 2012, 04:07:53 PM
I hereby dub this patch... Rise of the immorush.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: daccoo on March 06, 2012, 09:12:33 PM
2.I still thing that FG decks should be more challenging then arena decks ...
Dont fall into this trap. This may be your interpretation of how the game should be, but its not how the game IS. Theres a reason Zanz doesnt have shards in the FG's. BEcause he knows they are overpowered in a situation like that. I wish I found the quote, but Zanz has said that the arena, especially platinum, is the "AI lvl 7" that people have been wanting.
Ehm... i'll drop a little provocation here... if Arena Platinum is AI lvl7, why it spins unupped cards???  ::)
Actually that's a good idea. But the answer is to not encourage farming. Probably.
Or the same reason HB spin is frustrating. 2 upped + 1 unupped spin = no card. And we'll get a n00b complaining again.
So this makes me noob >?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rember on March 08, 2012, 04:30:01 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/yhZYp.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/33tgd.png)e:
now upgraded~
(http://i.imgur.com/rFTDU.png)
Haha that was cruel, would not recommend.

(Interesting change, basically requires you to have hard cc ready to expend if you want to chain novas.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 08, 2012, 05:12:58 PM
Zanz, please add: Does not work with Sanctuary under Diss Shield/Field.

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 10, 2012, 09:49:34 PM
Shard of Integrity (former Fertility) now in the trainer, have fun and give me some feedback, the art is temporary, balancing will follow.
Singularity should now properly duplicate when in the opponent field.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Xenocidius on March 10, 2012, 09:50:30 PM
Shard of Integrity (former Fertility) now in the trainer, have fun and give me some feedback, the art is temporary, balancing will follow.
Singularity should now properly duplicate when in the opponent field.
Woo! I can't wait to try this! Thanks, Zanz!

EDIT: Ooh, and placeholders for Shard of Justice and Shard of Freedom.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 10, 2012, 09:59:56 PM
Shard of Integrity (former Fertility) now in the trainer, have fun and give me some feedback, the art is temporary, balancing will follow.
Singularity should now properly duplicate when in the opponent field.
Testing! It's pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 10, 2012, 10:01:51 PM
And now we also have the final art fort the golem. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Dm on March 10, 2012, 10:22:19 PM
Gee, zanz, full work ahead, huh?

Nice art. I'll b' having fun messing with this too.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on March 10, 2012, 10:46:42 PM
Sometimes, i do not have to discard with 8 cards in hand - no idea what causes it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 10, 2012, 10:51:25 PM
I had justice and freedom inverted for the shard golem. Now fixed.
Edit: The "not having to discard" problem should also be fixed now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 10, 2012, 11:39:13 PM
first impression is its pretty fun.

as for the :earth golem, having guard being one of the abilities (for 4x earth or 5x earth) seems a little odd given that it is given to the "higher ranking" shard combinations, which have higher attack, and using the ability essentially nixes that down to 0, while a low cost base creature would fill those shoes just as well.

and adrenaline on the higher atk :life golems seems incredibly irrelevant :)

gravity ones (1-4x) are a bit on the less fun side as well.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on March 11, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
Shard of Integrity is my new favorite card, I think :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 11, 2012, 02:49:53 AM
Can you put up shard of justice and freedom in the suitable places? What are they?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: darkrobe on March 11, 2012, 02:53:38 AM
currently extremely sad that i gave up playing elements for lent.........
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 11, 2012, 03:36:56 AM
Went to sleep and i missed many things. Huh.
Will mess around in the trainer again.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Mathematistic on March 11, 2012, 03:52:21 AM
Can we have the stats of each shard to shard golem? Like how each constituent affects it.

Off-topic: I hope that shard of freedom as something to do with airborne. Also, singularities look like too much of a punishment (can't immolate!!!). Instead of the infinite buffs, why not just make it a negative quantum tower that absorbs a few random quanta from you?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 11, 2012, 03:59:27 AM
Can we have the stats of each shard to shard golem? Like how each constituent affects it.

Off-topic: I hope that shard of freedom as something to do with airborne. Also, singularities look like too much of a punishment (can't immolate!!!). Instead of the infinite buffs, why not just make it a negative quantum tower that absorbs a few random quanta from you?
Already did for the stats here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqwbWqlis8bLdERFekUyMmtFOFNFTXFNaThHWDVNT1E#gid=0

I hope that shards will be in-element cards as opposed to other (but the mechanic remains unchanged, mind you). It's obviously a 12-element set. Putting them all in other seems... Off.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 11, 2012, 04:00:16 AM
Can we have the stats of each shard to shard golem? Like how each constituent affects it.

Off-topic: I hope that shard of freedom as something to do with airborne. Also, singularities look like too much of a punishment (can't immolate!!!). Instead of the infinite buffs, why not just make it a negative quantum tower that absorbs a few random quanta from you?
Here:
Here is a detailed explanation on how this works.

Every shard in the hand (including the Shard of Integrity used) gives a stat boost to the golem. Each individual copy of a shard gives the following stat boost:

ShardATKHP
Integrity14
Serendipity22
Sacrifice22
Focus06
Gratitude22
Bravery30
Patience22
Divinity22
Freedom22
Readiness22
Void22
Justice22
Each upgraded shard gives an extra 1 ATK and 1 HP. For example, 2 Bravery combines with 1 Integrity to make a 7|4 golem. If one of them is upgraded, the golem is 8|5. If two are upgraded, it is 9|6.

Now for skills. To find the final skill that will be used, work across, then down. Find the highest skill that can be given. If there are two or more skills available in the same 'tier', the down-most one will be used.

ShardSkill (1+)Skill (2+)Skill (3+)Skill (4+)Skill (5+)Skill (6+)
Integrity1: burrow1: stone form1: guard2: petrify
Serendipity1: dead/alive2: mutation2: paradox2: improvescramble4: antimatter
Sacrifice1: infectionscavengervenom2: aflatoxindeadly venom
Focus3: devour4: black hole
Gratitude2: growth2: adrenaline4: mitosis
Bravery1: ablazefiery3: destroy2: rage
Patience2: steam3: freeze4: nymph
Divinity1: heal2: endow4: luciferin
Freedom2: queen2: sniper2: dive2: unstable gas
Readiness2: scarab4: deja vuneurotoxin2: precognition
Voidvampire2: liquid shadow3: steal
Justice2: lobotomize2: immortal
Finally, note the following:
  • 1 or more Shard of Freedom will give airborne.
  • 1 Shard of Void will give devourer; 2 or more will give voodoo.
  • 2 or more Shard of Focus will give momentum.
  • 2 or more Shard of Gratitude will give adrenaline.
  • 2 or more Shard of Justice will give immaterial.
Thanks to Jenkar and others for figuring out the skills.

I also made a tool that automatically calculates the stats and skills of any given golem combination. Enjoy (http://xenocidius.allalla.com/shardgolem/).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Mathematistic on March 11, 2012, 04:22:24 AM
Can we have the stats of each shard to shard golem? Like how each constituent affects it.

Off-topic: I hope that shard of freedom as something to do with airborne. Also, singularities look like too much of a punishment (can't immolate!!!). Instead of the infinite buffs, why not just make it a negative quantum tower that absorbs a few random quanta from you?
Here:
Here is a detailed explanation on how this works.

Every shard in the hand (including the Shard of Integrity used) gives a stat boost to the golem. Each individual copy of a shard gives the following stat boost:

ShardATKHP
Integrity14
Serendipity22
Sacrifice22
Focus06
Gratitude22
Bravery30
Patience22
Divinity22
Freedom22
Readiness22
Void22
Justice22
Each upgraded shard gives an extra 1 ATK and 1 HP. For example, 2 Bravery combines with 1 Integrity to make a 7|4 golem. If one of them is upgraded, the golem is 8|5. If two are upgraded, it is 9|6.

Now for skills. To find the final skill that will be used, work across, then down. Find the highest skill that can be given. If there are two or more skills available in the same 'tier', the down-most one will be used.

ShardSkill (1+)Skill (2+)Skill (3+)Skill (4+)Skill (5+)Skill (6+)
Integrity1: burrow1: stone form1: guard2: petrify
Serendipity1: dead/alive2: mutation2: paradox2: improvescramble4: antimatter
Sacrifice1: infectionscavengervenom2: aflatoxindeadly venom
Focus3: devour4: black hole
Gratitude2: growth2: adrenaline4: mitosis
Bravery1: ablazefiery3: destroy2: rage
Patience2: steam3: freeze4: nymph
Divinity1: heal2: endow4: luciferin
Freedom2: queen2: sniper2: dive2: unstable gas
Readiness2: scarab4: deja vuneurotoxin2: precognition
Voidvampire2: liquid shadow3: steal
Justice2: lobotomize2: immortal
Finally, note the following:
  • 1 or more Shard of Freedom will give airborne.
  • 1 Shard of Void will give devourer; 2 or more will give voodoo.
  • 2 or more Shard of Focus will give momentum.
  • 2 or more Shard of Gratitude will give adrenaline.
  • 2 or more Shard of Justice will give immaterial.
Thanks to Jenkar and others for figuring out the skills.

I also made a tool that automatically calculates the stats and skills of any given golem combination. Enjoy (http://xenocidius.allalla.com/shardgolem/).
Thanks! Now it reminds me of gemcraft...
Now shard farms can really bite. Excellent.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 11, 2012, 04:25:07 AM
More updates coming in the trainer:
Shard of Patience is now a permanent, I read somewhere on the forum about the idea and I think I like it. It takes a bit of skill to use and it is quite powerful, maybe too powerful. Let me know what do you think.

Edit: Increased shard golem cost to 8.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 11, 2012, 05:41:41 AM
Excellent. SoP is much better now. Shame it doesn't stack, otherwise it'd be really OP. How come sacrificing SoP sacrifices your entire stack?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on March 11, 2012, 05:46:56 AM
I think SoF is too powerful
only 4 any color cost can destory 3 perment than become a blackhole is also powerful

more overpower than Pulv
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Mathematistic on March 11, 2012, 05:47:21 AM
Excellent. SoP is much better now. Shame it doesn't stack, otherwise it'd be really OP. How come sacrificing SoP sacrifices your entire stack?
And counters SoSa!!!!!!!!!!!! :)) :)) Include a few of those will be wise enough. Now the singularity decks might be feasible...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on March 11, 2012, 05:49:07 AM
Edit: The "not having to discard" problem should also be fixed now.
Isn't.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 11, 2012, 06:00:32 AM
Excellent. SoP is much better now. Shame it doesn't stack, otherwise it'd be really OP. How come sacrificing SoP sacrifices your entire stack?
And counters SoSa!!!!!!!!!!!! :)) :)) Include a few of those will be wise enough. Now the singularity decks might be feasible...
Yup! Hard counter to SoSa. Also makes malignant cell decks stronger, as well as making that SOTK deck feasible again since singularities don't attack under SoP. (The newly generated ones do however). Pack in more antimatter and feral bonds, and you should be able to keep yourself alive. The singularities have never reached positive attack with SoP since they keep negative chaos powering themselves.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Hisar on March 11, 2012, 06:26:22 PM
I just thought this deck was hilarious, so here's the new mitosquid deck with shard of patience!

(http://i42.tinypic.com/ri9lr7.jpg)
61/62 squids!
I think the total damage is 1037.

I was hoping the AI would draw gravity shield so I could show it blocking all the damage.

Edit: also, did earthquake get nerfed?  It didn't seem to be destroying 3 pillars when the AI used it on me.

Edit 2: Oh, it now says "up to 3 pillars."  Trident got nerfed too, not sure THAT was necessary.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moaw on March 11, 2012, 06:54:02 PM
Water seems amazing now, fractal physalias anyone?
SoP stacks, but nothing happens having more than one. Maybe make them separate permanents, like Sanctuary?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Wizardcat on March 11, 2012, 10:09:31 PM
Edit: also, did earthquake get nerfed?  It didn't seem to be destroying 3 pillars when the AI used it on me.

Edit 2: Oh, it now says "up to 3 pillars."  Trident got nerfed too, not sure THAT was necessary.
It's always said 'up to 3'. Check in-game and the Wiki.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 13, 2012, 03:46:17 AM
Added Shard of freedom to the "under development" page.
Updated OP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 13, 2012, 03:50:51 AM
Added Shard of freedom to the "under development" page.
Updated OP.
does it stack 0.0 The % chance i mean
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 13, 2012, 03:51:52 AM
Added Shard of freedom to the "under development" page.
Updated OP.
does it stack 0.0 The % chance i mean
Yes, it goes 15,30,45,60,75,90%
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 13, 2012, 03:57:39 AM
Added Shard of freedom to the "under development" page.
Updated OP.
does it stack 0.0 The % chance i mean
Yes, it goes 15,30,45,60,75,90%
What happens if the deck has dexterity? Does the chance just stay at 100%?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 13, 2012, 03:58:14 AM
Added Shard of freedom to the "under development" page.
Updated OP.
does it stack 0.0 The % chance i mean
Yes, it goes 15,30,45,60,75,90%
What happens if the deck has dexterity? Does the chance just stay at 100%?
id guess it would give a 180% chance... aka 100%.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 13, 2012, 04:10:55 AM
am 99.9% sure the answer will be no, but was the critical blow mechanic of shard of freedom inspired by any cards in particular?
(such as http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26251.0.html )

and for what its worth, my initial response is liking the new shard
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Retribution on March 13, 2012, 04:54:27 AM
I think the "ignore shield" effect should stick to gravity...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on March 13, 2012, 05:07:07 AM
I think the "ignore shield" effect should stick to gravity...
Agreed, more or less. A critical hit implies hitting a weakpoint, this is true. But some shields have no weakpoints. Hope implies your entire body becomes covered in protective light. Dimensional shield has you phase into another dimension. No amount of fancy flying should counter that. I do like this shard a lot more than some others, it falls in with the more "balanced" shards in my opinion. Perhaps we can up the percent, or the percent damage increase, and drop th shield ignoring?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 13, 2012, 05:13:28 AM
I think the "ignore shield" effect should stick to gravity...
Agreed, more or less. A critical hit implies hitting a weakpoint, this is true. But some shields have no weakpoints. Hope implies your entire body becomes covered in protective light. Dimensional shield has you phase into another dimension. No amount of fancy flying should counter that. I do like this shard a lot more than some others, it falls in with the more "balanced" shards in my opinion. Perhaps we can up the percent, or the percent damage increase, and drop th shield ignoring?
I disagree. Air is one of the elements that lacks a source of useful PC, with it's only permanent control coming from Shockwave/Ice Bolt, and that introducing the ability to ignore shields is helpful in OTKs that involve Sky Blitz or rushes that just need to deal with shields. In this case, I would keep the anti-shield effect because it's mechanic is interesting and useful and mechanics > theme in most cases, IMHO.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on March 13, 2012, 05:16:36 AM
Hrm. I wish we could have a useful, PC mechanic that matches Freedom that still fits thematically.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 13, 2012, 05:17:01 AM
Shard of Freedom now in the trainer.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 10:22:07 AM
Shard of Freedom (unupped) sells for tons more than the other shards. Is this intended?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 13, 2012, 11:07:30 AM
Shard of Freedom (unupped) sells for tons more than the other shards. Is this intended?
It also buys much more than the others. Doesn't really matter in trainer, though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: markilleruk on March 13, 2012, 11:36:20 AM
More updates coming in the trainer:
Shard of Patience is now a permanent, I read somewhere on the forum about the idea and I think I like it. It takes a bit of skill to use and it is quite powerful, maybe too powerful. Let me know what do you think.

Edit: Increased shard golem cost to 8.
Woot, I discussed this possibility with some peeps on the forums: nice to see it implemented!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 13, 2012, 02:47:48 PM
Shard of Freedom (unupped) sells for tons more than the other shards. Is this intended?
It also buys much more than the others. Doesn't really matter in trainer, though.
It matters if those stats go to the beta instead of just in alpha
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Calindu on March 13, 2012, 07:06:35 PM
Shard of Freedom (unupped) sells for tons more than the other shards. Is this intended?
It also buys much more than the others. Doesn't really matter in trainer, though.
It matters if those stats go to the beta instead of just in alpha
Wouldn't help a lot of people, since people that play beta are competitive and don't sell new shards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on March 14, 2012, 02:36:20 AM
...but sell them when they get >12 of them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 14, 2012, 02:49:44 AM
What's this beta you're talking about? Unless i missed something, Elements Beta (www.elementsthegame.com/beta) is like a trainer, but for new version instead of current one.
Haven't check it again, since last time it gives me error 404. But i noticed that it can be accessed when the patch almost make it to the game.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 14, 2012, 02:59:46 AM
What's this beta you're talking about? Unless i missed something, Elements Beta (www.elementsthegame.com/beta) is like a trainer, but for new version instead of current one.
Haven't check it again, since last time it gives me error 404. But i noticed that it can be accessed when the patch almost make it to the game.
The beta zanz sets up for people to test out the new version (aka 1.30) when he believes its ready to be released. It has all the patches implemented, and it is just like playing the real game. Everything you do is saved. It just isnt on the main site, so only those who know about it can test it.  The beta site is ONLY put up when zanz is about to release the patch though, and it has none of the new cards implemented.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on March 14, 2012, 04:12:06 AM
It appears that the critical hit effect from Shard of Freedom is still displayed when a creature has been delayed and/or frozen.  I'm not sure if that's intended, but that looks really confusing when the creature isn't supposed to be dealing any damage at all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: erosimpier on March 14, 2012, 06:55:31 PM
Has anyone used the singularity card in trainer yet? I accidentally added it to a deck instead of a supernova while using the trainer to test a new deck and had quite a surprise when it popped up not knowing that there were new cards. Well it brought a whole new element of chaos to the entropy element and I have to say it wreaked havoc just that the havoc was aimed at me. Random effects piled up and soon I had a singularity with vampire that healed the opponent, a singularity with adrenaline, and a singularity with the malignant cell ability: infest, and one that filled the opponents quanta with a supernova after every turn of mine. The opponent wasn't want for healing or quanta with this card on my side of the playing field. lol. This card has potential beyond belief if used correctly, something which I most certainly didn't do. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on March 14, 2012, 07:00:28 PM
Singularities tend to kill you... (http://www.kongregate.com/games/NoxiousHamster/spikes-tend-to-kill-you)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: erosimpier on March 14, 2012, 07:06:08 PM
Singularities tend to kill you... (http://www.kongregate.com/games/NoxiousHamster/spikes-tend-to-kill-you)
Then how are they of use within a deck, would this change if one used antimatter on them as soon as they came into play, this would make them a quanta sink for sure.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on March 14, 2012, 07:12:04 PM
Singularities tend to kill you... (http://www.kongregate.com/games/NoxiousHamster/spikes-tend-to-kill-you)
Then how are they of use within a deck, would this change if one used antimatter on them as soon as they came into play, this would make them a quanta sink for sure.
It's not meant to be a standalone, but is a nerf to nova/supernova (test them in trainer, they'll make singularities if you no respect text). They're not made to be of use.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: erosimpier on March 14, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
Singularities tend to kill you... (http://www.kongregate.com/games/NoxiousHamster/spikes-tend-to-kill-you)
Then how are they of use within a deck, would this change if one used antimatter on them as soon as they came into play, this would make them a quanta sink for sure.
It's not meant to be a standalone, but is a nerf to nova/supernova (test them in trainer, they'll make singularities if you no respect text). They're not made to be of use.
Ohh alright, I think now we need something like a reverse twin universe card so we can copy singularities to the opponents side of the playing field, that could be fun... :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 14, 2012, 11:04:07 PM
Singularities tend to kill you... (http://www.kongregate.com/games/NoxiousHamster/spikes-tend-to-kill-you)
Then how are they of use within a deck, would this change if one used antimatter on them as soon as they came into play, this would make them a quanta sink for sure.
It's not meant to be a standalone, but is a nerf to nova/supernova (test them in trainer, they'll make singularities if you no respect text). They're not made to be of use.
Ohh alright, I think now we need something like a reverse twin universe card so we can copy singularities to the opponents side of the playing field, that could be fun... :P
You can try nightmare.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: erosimpier on March 14, 2012, 11:35:07 PM
@furballdn
Doesn't that fill the opponents hand rather than copy it directly to the playing field on their side?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 14, 2012, 11:39:51 PM
There isn't a card that places a creature on the opponent's side, but it would combo nicely with singularity or malignant cell. I believe a card idea was made about it though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 14, 2012, 11:43:35 PM
i believe there was a light card that did at some point, and webway could also serve that purpose as well
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 15, 2012, 03:30:26 AM
i believe there was a light card that did at some point, and webway could also serve that purpose as well
There have been several darkness idea for this card as well:
Gift | Gift (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30838.0.html)
Treacherous gift| Treacherous gift  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29273.0.html)
Dark Gift / Grim Charity (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4954.0.html)

IMHO such a card might need more uses than just countering some CCs, messing with Weapon Slots, and gifting Singularity though. (The three uses I describe here seem too reliant on a player to be focusing on certain cards to counter/synergize with them. Singularity Gift is a good synergy but seems somewhat limited IMHO given that it's the only card that gives you something bad on purpose.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: burne on March 15, 2012, 09:22:57 AM
Hooray for the new shards !

I have a problem with the focus one, giving every deck PC but playing with it in the trainer show it is not so OP (but still).

I love the new shard of patience, much better than the last one.
It may be too powerfull thou, maybe preventing creature from using skills will balance it.

At first S.of integity frightened me, being able to play a massive creature on the first turn.
But other decks can and depleting your whole hand make it ok.

Shards are overall very powerfull. Not sure if it's good for the game.
By the way, I think X.of void should be boosted. Some protection could do it.


The main frustrating think in the game for me right now, is not achieving EM properly.
I have vampiric creature and regenerate in my mind.

I wonder how the whole thing could evoluate if you make the permanent hit before creature ??
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: omegareaper7 on March 15, 2012, 12:58:15 PM
]
I love the new shard of patience, much better than the last one.
It may be too powerfull thou, maybe preventing creature from using skills will balance it.


I disagree with that. Without the ability to use skills, i think it will become mostly useless again. Sure they get the buff, but outside of water, that will be  next to useless. Has very few good  uses even with the buff. Albeit, its good uses are pretty strong.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: SnoWeb on March 15, 2012, 05:04:10 PM
By the way, I think X.of void should be boosted.
I agree. Maybe other cards able to target MaxHP could do. I was really disappointed to see that the combination of SoV and SoI wasn't giving a golem able to target MaxHP ... Sad.
I don't think that a protection would be a good buff though. PA and Cloak are playing their role here. I would rather see an increase in effect (4 MaxHP with the mark of darkness).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Elsy on March 15, 2012, 08:26:38 PM
By the way, I think X.of void should be boosted.
I agree. Maybe other cards able to target MaxHP could do. I was really disappointed to see that the combination of SoV and SoI wasn't giving a golem able to target MaxHP ... Sad.
I don't think that a protection would be a good buff though. PA and Cloak are playing their role here. I would rather see an increase in effect (4 MaxHP with the mark of darkness).
While I agree that SoV is fairly weak, especially if darkness isn't your mark, I also think pumping it up to 3/4 HP would make it way too strong, especially in pvp where opponents only have 100hp.  I think that the major weakness of SoV right now isn't that it's too weak but rather that it has basically no synergy with any other offensive card.  Since its "damage" and normal offensive damage don't add together, either the shards are basically useless because your creatures are doing more damage anyway, or the creatures are basically useless because the shards are doing more damage anyway.  That's why SoV is basically only seen in the Zen deck and nowhere else.  I'd like to explore making the damage additive with creatures, so that if your creatures take your opponent down to 85/100 and you have 3 SoV it'll take the opponent down to 74/91, or 77/94 if another mark.  That way we might see it show up in some other decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Angelic_Dawn on March 15, 2012, 09:32:38 PM
Nova Nerf, :/ what nerf?

Currently running a few (Imp/Basic)Mutates in my deck, thanks for the free mutation fodder, i really love it =)  Am even tempted to not play them till i got at least 2 in my hand. =)

Random Super Creature in play early game(or late even) for  2 :entropy  = a nice gift imho =P

 :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 15, 2012, 09:34:26 PM
By making SoV take away current hp as well as max hp, if you aren't at max hp, I think a lot of the complaints around it would go away.  The only problem with that is it might make the card too strong, even if we kept the part about SoV being unable to kill a player on its own by leaving them at 1/1 hp.

SoV is still pretty good against decks with a lot of healing, even if you are using creatures as well.  If someone casts a miracle or has a bunch of feral bonds out with a lowered hp maximum, they're going to get a lot less efficacy out of it.  I had an arena deck about a week ago that used SoV as the primary source of damage, and it got as high as rank 9, so in the right deck it can work well.  It's just not one of those cards you can throw in every deck and have it work.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 15, 2012, 10:03:40 PM
The aether shard is now Shard of Wisdom. It targets an immaterial creature; the target creature deals spell damage. It can be used in two ways:
Offensive: your immaterial creature ignores all shield but reflective shields
Defensive: play a reflective shield and use the shard on an opponent creature: the creature is now attacking your opponent.

Mechanic: physical attack is reduced to zero, the attack is transferred to a lightning spell instead.
Vampire healing does not apply to spells.
Negative damage spells (antimatter) will heal the target, as usual.

Added to development page.
Soon in the trainer.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on March 15, 2012, 10:08:14 PM
Interesting. seems balanced. Is it a permanent change to spell damage, or just one turn?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Shantu on March 15, 2012, 10:11:33 PM
Seems quite balanced but limited. I would suggest being able to cast it on any kind of creature, with a bonus to immaterial creatures.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: YoungSot on March 15, 2012, 10:13:01 PM
Mechanic: physical attack is reduced to zero, the attack is transferred to a lightning spell instead.
Just to clarify, does the attack still do the same damage as the creature normally would, or does it actually just hit the opponent with a lightning spell? As in would a phase dragon do 8 or 5 spell damage? I assume the former but the wording of your quote above made me curious.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 15, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
Obviously I love the idea, would you say this was inspired by Shard of Knowledge http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28846.msg394171#msg394171 or Psion http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28117.0.html ?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 15, 2012, 10:19:16 PM
Seems quite balanced but limited. I would suggest being able to cast it on any kind of creature, with a bonus to immaterial creatures.
This. It's very useless in its current form. The only reason you would ever use Reflector+SoW is if it's in a restricted environment where Antimatter is banned or something very situational like that.

Monoaether already counters itself with Silence, and making immaterial creatures have semi-momentum is naturally even less useful than actual Momentum, which is a combo that's never used in PvP.

I think you should go over-the-top with the Aether shard too, Zanz. When I see extreme stuff like SoBe and SoSa, I think back to the old idea of the Aether shard being Lightning on a stick. That would be so awesome. 'Cause the thing is, Aether is the element of awesome thunderbolts and explosions in space. Not this pussy-footing around.

(I'm fine with the concept of Wisdom though. It's just the mechanics I feel cheated on 'cause everyone else get extreme stuff.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on March 15, 2012, 10:39:54 PM
Will the mechanic for Shard of Conscience be used for a different card?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 15, 2012, 10:45:52 PM
i agree with shantu's suggestions for increasing the usefulness of the card, i love the spell damage mechanic being implemented, but would hate for it to be so limited that it would be the least used shard.  as is, the defensive mechanic wouldnt arise very often unless you happened to come across an immaterial creature, which are a bit less common than airborne creatures.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 16, 2012, 12:03:34 AM
Shard of Wisdom now in the trainer; with a bit of a twist to make it more interesting. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 16, 2012, 12:16:12 AM
Pretty cool. I love the Lightning effect <3

But the upped Shard lost the damage bonus.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: majofa on March 16, 2012, 12:18:30 AM
Pretty cool. I love the Lightning effect <3

But the upped Shard lost the damage bonus.
It's still there, just not on the card.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 16, 2012, 12:29:03 AM
Pretty cool. I love the Lightning effect <3

But the upped Shard lost the damage bonus.
I have got shard of freedom/wisdom mixed for the upped version. Now uploading trainer with the problem fixed; I am still working on cleaning up bugs and typos.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 16, 2012, 12:33:19 AM
Obviously I love the idea, would you say this was inspired by Shard of Knowledge http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28846.msg394171#msg394171 or Psion http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28117.0.html ?
The shard was inspired by Psion, but, clearly, modified quite a bit. It is also not excluded, since the mechanics are now coded, that psion could be added to the game in a form more similar to the original idea.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on March 16, 2012, 12:34:42 AM
The only thing I dont like is that  :aether needs to duo to take advantage of the reflective shield feature. This is probably one of my favorite shards regardless though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 16, 2012, 01:10:10 AM
awesome! am so happy one of my ideas was finally useful :)

may be worth noting that this can be currently used *best* in earth decks, with either burrowed antlions (unburrow turns it into a 10 atk (12 upgraded) immaterial spellcaster creature) or grabloid (turns shrieker into an immaterial creature)

and it may be intentional, but it also works with flying morning glories.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Elsy on March 16, 2012, 01:44:58 AM
awesome! am so happy one of my ideas was finally useful :)

may be worth noting that this can be currently used *best* in earth decks, with either burrowed antlions (unburrow turns it into a 10 atk (12 upgraded) immaterial spellcaster creature) or grabloid (turns shrieker into an immaterial creature)

and it may be intentional, but it also works with flying morning glories.
Is it supposed to turn graboids immaterial I wonder?  Seems like a non-obvious consequence of the shard, especially since you lose the damage effect when you evolve it.  That seems almost like a bug to me, even more so since I just had an immaterial graboid get affected by Plague in the trainer.

edit:  Just a note that another consequence of the shard is that it gets you around gravity pull.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 16, 2012, 01:49:55 AM
Have anyone tested how SoW interacts with Seraph?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Elsy on March 16, 2012, 01:58:14 AM
Have anyone tested how SoW interacts with Seraph?
Currently makes it permanently untargetable and (nevermind) permanently ups the attack of the seraph, but the spell damage effect only lasts the one turn, and after that it reverts back to physical damage. 
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on March 16, 2012, 02:03:12 AM
aye, what elsy said, it basically is just a cheap +4 damage for saraphs
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: mookmanthemighty on March 16, 2012, 02:30:43 AM
singularity, nightmare, reverse time? can you say ouch?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: SnoWeb on March 16, 2012, 07:13:21 AM
awesome! am so happy one of my ideas was finally useful :)
Congrats.

I'm glad you'll finally have a card in the reliquary. You clearly deserve it. This idea is also one of your best.

Shard of Wisdom is IMHO way better than Shard of Conscience (RIP). The question is will I finally make use of my aether nymph?

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on March 21, 2012, 01:57:46 AM
Liquid antimatter 3.0 with the SoW. Just must get a reflective shield and BAM! Antimatter, LS and self hitting creatures everywhere!

EDIT:  Y U NO TARGET TARGETABLE CREATURES?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bripod on March 23, 2012, 02:23:40 AM
Can someone provide me with the proper link to the Trainer... Apparently I have the wrong link.
I've even cleared the cache several times and still do not have access to the new cards for testing.
Thanks


EDIT: Oh! You got to BUY them... ok, never mind... :P

Any chance of making it to where they're already in your Vault when you "Get all cards"? ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: willng3 on March 23, 2012, 02:24:54 AM
Can someone provide me with the proper link to the Trainer... Apparently I have the wrong link.
I've even cleared the cache several times and still do not have access to the new cards for testing.
Thanks
http://elementsthegame.com/trainer

Remember to check the bazaar for new cards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 24, 2012, 08:29:03 PM
Purify now can target both players and creatures
Purify now also removes sacrifice
Unupgraded purify cost increased to 2
Unupgraded purify healing increased to 2

The new purify is in the trainer
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 24, 2012, 08:54:35 PM
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mother-of-god-meme.jpg)

Remove Sacrifice? That's the biggest single buff of a card I've ever seen xD
You always find ways to surprise me, Zanz. Nice :>

Mkay, so we have SoaP and Purify as direct counters and Silence/Sundial as soft counters. I hope that'll make this outrageous card a bit more balanced. Funny that the best counters are related to Water, too.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 24, 2012, 08:57:32 PM
Purify counter turns into poison counter of the same amount when the affected creature is catapulted. Maybe a bug, maybe intentional.
Healing works everytime the creature attacks, so it interacts with Adren like normal poison counter.
With Voodoo Doll and Accel, the damage done by acceleration is healed by purify, but no damage done to opponent from voodoo passive.

Good work on new Purify. Now it can finally see more use.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on March 24, 2012, 09:49:19 PM
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mother-of-god-meme.jpg)

Remove Sacrifice? That's the biggest single buff of a card I've ever seen xD
You always find ways to surprise me, Zanz. Nice :>

Mkay, so we have SoaP and Purify as direct counters and Silence/Sundial as soft counters. I hope that'll make this outrageous card a bit more balanced. Funny that the best counters are related to Water, too.
I had the same reaction.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on March 24, 2012, 09:53:17 PM
With Voodoo Doll and Accel, the damage done by acceleration is healed by purify, but no damage done to opponent from voodoo passive.
That's because no damage is done by Acceleration anymore when Purify is applied, it seems, just tested it with Overdrive + Purify + Phoenix, Phoenix lives :)

Peculiar buff for Purify, wonder how it'll change things.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Aves on March 24, 2012, 09:56:15 PM
Ah, wait. In the current game, purify is applied before creatures attack and everything, right? It's in the same slot as poison. So on a creature, shouldn't it 'heal' the creature first before then applying the damage?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on March 24, 2012, 09:59:19 PM
Very good change for Purify!
I would like to see the same change for Aflatoxin (target Player and creature)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on March 24, 2012, 10:04:47 PM
Very good change for Purify!
I would like to see the same change for Aflatoxin (target Player and creature)
Wuh?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on March 24, 2012, 10:09:11 PM
Very good change for Purify!
I would like to see the same change for Aflatoxin (target Player and creature)
[/quote]
Umm.. just something that deals 2 poison per turn? Isn't that called... ya know... Poison?

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 24, 2012, 10:12:36 PM
When you die you burst into an army of 1hp malignant cells XD

But anyways. yeah. Woah. Purify is changed. This could open up a lot of new strategies and ways of playing.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: nilsieboy on March 24, 2012, 10:14:13 PM
Very good change for Purify!
I would like to see the same change for Aflatoxin (target Player and creature)
Quote
Umm.. just something that deals 2 poison per turn? Isn't that called... ya know... Poison?
it'd be so much better to poison your opponent with cool art 8)

but i'm really curious how the purify buff will work out, but i like it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on March 24, 2012, 10:16:20 PM
Umm.. just something that deals 2 poison per turn? Isn't that called... ya know... Poison?
The same I can ask You - Purify and healing creatures? Isn't that called... ya know... Heal from Archangel?

Yes, Aflatoxin for 6 :death to target Player and creatures and Poison for 2 :death which target only Player. It is balanced. There are more cards in game which work on Player and creatures, so why didn't add Aflatoxin to this list?
Aflatoxin is unuseful in later game so it will be nice buff for this underused card.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on March 24, 2012, 10:31:33 PM
I do not understand how that would help much... Purify is completely different... it can now heal a creature 1 (or 2) per turn and remove all poison when played... if Aflatoxin could be used on a player, it'd have the exact same effect as Poison, but for three times the cost. Imo, the only place this would work is if one was using Death Nymphs...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 24, 2012, 10:32:30 PM
Very good change for Purify!
I would like to see the same change for Aflatoxin (target Player and creature)
Quote
Umm.. just something that deals 2 poison per turn? Isn't that called... ya know... Poison?
it'd be so much better to poison your opponent with cool art 8)

but i'm really curious how the purify buff will work out, but i like it.
Only thing I really see with purify is combining it with overdrive like here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37728.msg505783#msg505783). Purify negates health lost from overdrive, so even glass cannons can (ab)use it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 24, 2012, 10:35:45 PM
He's right though, it seems logical Afla could target HP, and it would be a nice buff. You always pack several copies of Afla if you're betting on that unreliable strategy, and if it works more copies of it are redundant. Inflicting Poison seems normal and would both give it a use later and make it more versatile.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on March 24, 2012, 10:37:28 PM
I do not understand how that would help much... Purify is completely different... it can now heal a creature 1 (or 2) per turn and remove all poison when played... if Aflatoxin could be used on a player, it'd have the exact same effect as Poison, but for three times the cost. Imo, the only place this would work is if one was using Death Nymphs...
Yes, it will be also buff for Nymph (probably the worst Nymph in game?). But it is also good buff for Afla. It is better to have an option to poison player than didn't have it. Imagine game against Immaterial creatures and 6 Afla in deck or game when opponent has got all field with creatures/cells and You have 2 Afla in hand. It will be nice to Poison opponent by 2x2 Poison than keeping this cards in hand. It will be small, but fine buff, exactly like buff for Purify.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 24, 2012, 10:39:43 PM
If you can target with it, doesn't it make it seem more like a spell and should be reflected?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on March 24, 2012, 10:42:04 PM
If you can target with it, doesn't it make it seem more like a spell and should be reflected?
We talk about it in Jade Shield topic - most of players think that Poison (as spell, not Phylasia skill) should be reflected. The same problem is with Purify now ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 24, 2012, 10:46:32 PM
It doesn't make any sense for a reflective shield to bounce back Poison, Holy Flash as healing or Purify. Reflective shields (or mirrors) have often been used in mythology and video game history to reflect energy. Things like Poison and healing are inflicted inside your opponent, probably by magical means in this game. Things like Fire Lance are concentrations of energy that can be magically reflected because they manifest in a physical way.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on March 24, 2012, 10:49:46 PM
It doesn't make any sense for a reflective shield to bounce back Poison, Holy Flash as healing or Purify. Reflective shields (or mirrors) have often been used in mythology and video game history to reflect energy. Things like Poison and healing are inflicted inside your opponent, probably by magical means in this game. Things like Fire Lance are concentrations of energy that can be magically reflected because they manifest in a physical way.
That's...amazing technical, and makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on March 24, 2012, 10:53:13 PM
It doesn't make any sense for a reflective shield to bounce back Poison, Holy Flash as healing or Purify. Reflective shields (or mirrors) have often been used in mythology and video game history to reflect energy. Things like Poison and healing are inflicted inside your opponent, probably by magical means in this game. Things like Fire Lance are concentrations of energy that can be magically reflected because they manifest in a physical way.
Problems about reflective comes from card text (especially from Jade Shield). "Spells are reflected against your opponent." Poison, Purify - there are spells and should be reflected. Card text must be the most important thing in card working, not our imagine how it should work. But maybe it is topic for other discussion, now we have more important things ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 24, 2012, 11:19:15 PM
Card text must be the most important thing in card working, not our imagine how it should work.
Not even close. Making sense is paramount to anything else. A lot of cards keep some things secret, and I prefer it that way because part of developing your skill as a player is doing your own testing and research.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 24, 2012, 11:39:17 PM
Card text must be the most important thing in card working, not our imagine how it should work.
Not even close. Making sense is paramount to anything else. A lot of cards keep some things secret, and I prefer it that way because part of developing your skill as a player is doing your own testing and research.
Or you, elemental being, understanding the power you're using. Think of the elemental reading spell books. That sounds about 20% cooler.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 24, 2012, 11:43:32 PM
Card text must be the most important thing in card working, not our imagine how it should work.
Not even close. Making sense is paramount to anything else. A lot of cards keep some things secret, and I prefer it that way because part of developing your skill as a player is doing your own testing and research.
Or you, elemental being, understanding the power you're using. Think of the elemental reading spell books. That sounds about 20% cooler.
Or, you know, read the wiki.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on March 24, 2012, 11:46:02 PM
That's research, yes. However, as any long-time player will noticed, you'll find out more weird quirks when actually experimenting. In the end, it's the only completely reliable way of obtaining knowledge for yourself in any situation.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 25, 2012, 02:23:27 AM
Purify also removes aflatoxin
Aflatoxin cost reduced to 6/5
Added deck graphic effects for singularity
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 25, 2012, 02:36:29 AM
Yes, Aflatoxin buff!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on March 25, 2012, 02:44:53 AM
Will there be any other card changes for this patch?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: waterzx on March 25, 2012, 03:00:46 AM
Omg, 1.3 is so big and there are so many changes !

Now I don't wanna see it being released, I wanna see it gets bigger and bigger with new cards in every element.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: mesaprotector on March 25, 2012, 03:17:16 AM
Purify is rapidly going from useless to situational to awesome.

Love this patch, can't wait for 1.30 to go live.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 25, 2012, 03:20:35 AM
Something else i just noticed.
SoF cost increased to 7 | 5. When was this changed?
EDIT: also SoFr percentage increased to 20%. Have these been listed somewhere?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pikachufan2164 on March 25, 2012, 03:22:57 AM
Ooh, Afla buff :3

(Side note: Firefly Queen would like to have a minor cost decrease, please)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on March 25, 2012, 04:01:50 AM
With such a huge patch, you may want to split it up into 2 smaller patches (preferably one with balances and the other with shards).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: duskiller on March 25, 2012, 04:49:03 AM
Supernova is acting weird in the trainer atm. Once I casted three and no singularity was generated, another time I casted one and a singularity was generated. Not sure about nova though
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on March 25, 2012, 05:09:09 AM
Added a chance to evade targeting to Shard of Freedom for  :air creatures
Chance increased to 20% per shard.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Mathematistic on March 25, 2012, 05:39:33 AM
Added a chance to evade targeting to Shard of Freedom for  :air creatures
Chance increased to 20% per shard.
Ooooh, nice. Now it's actually usable, and benefits :air more.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 25, 2012, 05:43:37 AM
Oh wow. So many changes!  :o
I feel sort of important for sort of maybe influencing the aflatoxin/purify change.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on March 25, 2012, 09:52:50 AM
Buff for Purify, Aflatoxin and SoFr is very good decision, thanks Zanz :) It is good way to balance this game.
Purify - now it is universal card, good buff for Water
Aflatoxin - it is very nice to see this card cheaper
SoFr - now Air has got bonus and it looks good

Good changes!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Phaser on March 25, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
With Shard of Freedom and Sky Blitz people won't underestimate the power of air and will now fear it! And for Seraph, it now gives power back to Fire which was nerfed 3 times! One question, though. For Divine Shield, does it also mean Seraph can't be affected by shield effects but still gets its damage reduction. Singularity is a nice counter to Speedbows, which I hate. Though Entropy needs a card to buff it like this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37755.0/topicseen.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 25, 2012, 09:16:53 PM
With Shard of Freedom and Sky Blitz people won't underestimate the power of air and will now fear it! And for Seraph, it now gives power back to Fire which was nerfed 3 times! One question, though. For Divine Shield, does it also mean Seraph can't be affected by shield effects but still gets its damage reduction. Singularity is a nice counter to Speedbows, which I hate. Though Entropy needs a card to buff it like this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37755.0/topicseen.html
Seraph will probably still be affected by shields just as immatieral creatures are.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on March 25, 2012, 09:54:08 PM
With Shard of Freedom and Sky Blitz people won't underestimate the power of air and will now fear it! And for Seraph, it now gives power back to Fire which was nerfed 3 times! One question, though. For Divine Shield, does it also mean Seraph can't be affected by shield effects but still gets its damage reduction. Singularity is a nice counter to Speedbows, which I hate. Though Entropy needs a card to buff it like this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37755.0/topicseen.html
Don't promote card ideas in this thread. That said, entropy is already powerful enough to not require a buff, and that card is a horrid idea due to the facts of
a) Generates a highly undesirable card for the opponent that is intended only as a SN chain deterrent
b) Essentially autowins the game with any deck using it
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Winter Is Coming on March 26, 2012, 04:34:24 AM
Any rough estimate for when this update actually goes into affect? I feel like I've been reading about this since, like, Christmas.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 26, 2012, 04:44:12 AM
Well, thread was made december 30 2001, and there is a whole bunch of stuff being added. Big patch is big.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on March 26, 2012, 05:08:28 AM
Well, thread was made december 30 2001, and there is a whole bunch of stuff being added. Big patch is big.
I think you mean 2011. a 11 year old patch being developed may as well be a new game XD
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on March 26, 2012, 05:12:47 AM
Well, thread was made december 30 2001, and there is a whole bunch of stuff being added. Big patch is big.
I think you mean 2011. a 11 year old patch being developed may as well be a new game XD
Oh right. Typo there. yeah. 2011. We're not talking about duke nukem forever now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Kakerlake on March 26, 2012, 07:45:14 AM
Catapulting a Purified Creature to your opponent should add the Purify counters to your opponent.
Same mechanics is still missing for Voodoo Doll: Purifying it won't add Purify counters / remove Poison from your opponent (Also healing effects by Angel/Purify aren't Voodoo'ed either).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on March 26, 2012, 08:18:54 AM
Catapulting a Purified Creature to your opponent should add the Purify counters to your opponent.
Same mechanics is still missing for Voodoo Doll: Purifying it won't add Purify counters / remove Poison from your opponent (Also healing effects by Angel/Purify aren't Voodoo'ed either).
I don't think Catapulting a Purified Creature applying Purify on the opponent makes much sense; the opposite for the Voodoo Doll though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Mathematistic on March 26, 2012, 10:52:21 AM
Voodoo doll should only give opponents harmful effects.
Try healing it with archangel.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ddevans96 on March 26, 2012, 02:26:52 PM
Same mechanics is still missing for Voodoo Doll: Purifying it won't add Purify counters / remove Poison from your opponent
No, because this:

(Also healing effects by Angel/Purify aren't Voodoo'ed either).
Voodoo doll only inflicts negative effects to it back to the opponent.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zhangvict on March 27, 2012, 01:38:30 PM
I like the target both players and creatures but I do not see the thematic sense in making purify remove sacrifice status. This seems like poor game design, rushed and an easy way out in dealing with sosac because you couldn't think of anything more clever. Sosac may need to be nerfed, but is purify the right way to go about doing it?

Perhaps a better way to deal with sosac is not to make up a random hard counter spell, but change the mechanic of sosac so that it has a wider range of counters as well as a wider range of strengths.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: waterzx on March 27, 2012, 01:52:12 PM
I like the target both players and creatures but I do not see the thematic sense in making purify remove sacrifice status. This seems like a rushed and easy way out in dealing with sosac. Sosac may need to be nerfed, but is purify the right way to go about doing it?

Perhaps a better way to deal with sosac is not to make up a random counter spell, but change the mechanic of sosac so that it has a wider range of counters as well as a wider range of strengths.
It's has been suggested for long that SoSac should become a permanent. I think that's a very nice nerf.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zhangvict on March 27, 2012, 01:55:09 PM
I like the target both players and creatures but I do not see the thematic sense in making purify remove sacrifice status. This seems like a rushed and easy way out in dealing with sosac. Sosac may need to be nerfed, but is purify the right way to go about doing it?

Perhaps a better way to deal with sosac is not to make up a random counter spell, but change the mechanic of sosac so that it has a wider range of counters as well as a wider range of strengths.
It's has been suggested for long that SoSac should become a permanent. I think that's a very nice nerf.
I do not think SoSac should become a permanent. Then it just becomes a 2 turn dimensional shield, and that gets stale. The game need more varieties of defense than permanent based systems. The status-based spell defense of sosac was an innovation, and only really needs refinement, not a backwards transformation.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: waterzx on March 27, 2012, 01:59:40 PM

I do not think SoSac should become a permanent. Then it just becomes a 2 turn dimensional shield, and that gets stale. The game need more varieties of defense than permanent based systems. The status-based spell defense of sosac was an innovation, and only really needs refinement, not a backwards transformation.
How about adding a upper limit for damage /healing converted , say, up to 60 damage ?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: drolly on March 27, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
Just randomly throwing in my thoughts ... ::)

I do not think SoSac should become a permanent. Then it just becomes a 2 turn dimensional shield, and that gets stale. The game need more varieties of defense than permanent based systems. The status-based spell defense of sosac was an innovation, and only really needs refinement, not a backwards transformation.
I totally agree with you, inflicting damage to oneself and one's quanta pool should yield greater advantages than just setting up a permanent for a defined quanta cost. SoSac does this nicely by guaranteeing near-immortality for the following turns (with some soft and an upcoming hard counter), and this will fortunately continue in 1.30, even after the Purify buff.

I like the target both players and creatures but I do not see the thematic sense in making purify remove sacrifice status.
I made up the following explanation for myself: The "sacrifice" you make is indeed an unholy one, instead of bringing glory to the world of elementals by growing stronger and stronger, you stab yourself and give up most of the life-saving resources. You start a gamble like "I bet that my opponent will damage me by more than 40/48 HP". All this is somehow against "nature", therefore the shard belongs to the :death element. Look at the optical effect, it reminds me of a somehow flawed soul (don't know how to express it in better terms). By purifying, this "suicidal/unholy/gambling" state is removed and you return to a normal existence again. Well, as long as your opponent doesn't defeat you immediately after that ...

How romantic ... 8)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zhangvict on March 27, 2012, 03:12:15 PM
I like the target both players and creatures but I do not see the thematic sense in making purify remove sacrifice status.
I made up the following explanation for myself: The "sacrifice" you make is indeed an unholy one, instead of bringing glory to the world of elementals by growing stronger and stronger, you stab yourself and give up most of the life-saving resources. You start a gamble like "I bet that my opponent will damage me by more than 40/48 HP". All this is somehow against "nature", therefore the shard belongs to the :death element. Look at the optical effect, it reminds me of a somehow flawed soul (don't know how to express it in better terms). By purifying, this "suicidal/unholy/gambling" state is removed and you return to a normal existence again. Well, as long as your opponent doesn't defeat you immediately after that ...

How romantic ... 8)
uhh, your romantic fantasy somewhat makes a bit of sense, but not enough for me to be convinced purify fits thematically with removal of sacrifice status. If indeed your theory of sosac causing a unholy state of soul, the exorcism of this state belong more to  :light than to  :water. Holy water perhaps, but not blue purify. Plus, I think the target should regain 20hp per 1 turn of sacrifice to fit better with the theme of restoring un-corrupted life, as well as for balancing the too hard counter of sosac. You need to draw 1 card to sosac and suicide 40hp, opoment needs to draw 1 card to de-sosac and heal you, both are balanced (except u lose all quanta except death and opoment needed to use 2 :water and you gain 2 regen counter).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Vendanna on March 27, 2012, 08:09:04 PM
Its also possible to allow "Holy light" that is also an underused card to be able to heal the "disease" of sacrifice, and that way there exists other option that isn't on water quanta. (and has less uses than purify)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 27, 2012, 09:49:09 PM
Its also possible to allow "Holy light" that is also an underused card to be able to heal the "disease" of sacrifice, and that way there exists other option that isn't on water quanta. (and has less uses than purify)
It already works like that in a way.  You can target the opponent with Holy Light, so you can deal 10 damage to them if they have SoSa active.  I'm tempted to try giving an arena deck six holy lights sometime and use the test option to see if the AI is smart enough to kill you with them if the opportunity arises.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: majofa on March 27, 2012, 09:50:00 PM
Its also possible to allow "Holy light" that is also an underused card to be able to heal the "disease" of sacrifice, and that way there exists other option that isn't on water quanta. (and has less uses than purify)
It already works like that in a way.  You can target the opponent with Holy Light, so you can deal 10 damage to them if they have SoSa active.  I'm tempted to try giving an arena deck six holy lights sometime and use the test option to see if the AI is smart enough to kill you with them if the opportunity arises.
It will.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Blues on March 28, 2012, 05:44:29 PM
Sorry if this is already explained somewhere, this thread is very long.
Quote
Nova and Super Nova generate singularities when used multiple times per turn
What is a singularity?
And what is a black hole?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheManuz on March 28, 2012, 06:17:36 PM
Sorry if this is already explained somewhere, this thread is very long.
Quote
Nova and Super Nova generate singularities when used multiple times per turn
What is a singularity?
And what is a black hole?
This is a Singularity (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37225.0.html), and this is a Black Hole (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1894.0.html).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Blues on March 28, 2012, 09:54:51 PM
@Manuz
Thanks, I thought Black Hole was a new card, shame on me...  ::)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: waterzx on March 29, 2012, 05:02:46 AM
Sorry if this is already explained somewhere, this thread is very long.
Quote
Nova and Super Nova generate singularities when used multiple times per turn
What is a singularity?
And what is a black hole?
This is a Singularity (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37225.0.html), and this is a Black Hole (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1894.0.html).
I think he means that " Singularity occurs within a black hole

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Singularity

It doesn't make sense to have two cards named as black hole and singularity, because generally speaking, singularity = black hole
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on March 29, 2012, 06:04:39 AM
Sorry if this is already explained somewhere, this thread is very long.
Quote
Nova and Super Nova generate singularities when used multiple times per turn
What is a singularity?
And what is a black hole?
This is a Singularity (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37225.0.html), and this is a Black Hole (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1894.0.html).
I think he means that " Singularity occurs within a black hole

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Singularity

It doesn't make sense to have two cards named as black hole and singularity, because generally speaking, singularity = black hole
@Manuz
Thanks, I thought Black Hole was a new card, shame on me...  ::)
Or not ;P
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on March 29, 2012, 10:16:52 AM
I think upped SoF may get a upped blackhole though it cost 1 more ;)

It can destory 3 times .also can absorb damage to use more.

but compare with butterfly :entropy butterfly destory 3 times will cost 5+3+3+3 :entropy

colorless mana should be difficult to use in some side than certain color mana.dosen't it? :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: glennfoo on March 29, 2012, 03:23:07 PM
does shard of focus destroy permanent before turning to black hole or it changes to black hole when you use it the fourth time??
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheManuz on March 29, 2012, 03:34:05 PM
does shard of focus destroy permanent before turning to black hole or it changes to black hole when you use it the fourth time??
It turns into black hole immediately (if i remember well) but you still have the targeting for destroying a permanent.
If (for example) you cancel the ability, the Shard of Focus is dead anyway.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on March 31, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
 :darkness i just got an idea for Shard of Void

shard of void is useless in every deck because it only Reduce max  HP but deal 0 damage

if damage>3(mark darkness)per turn  1SoV help you nothing it cann't help any deck to win

so i think SoV to be a buff

Reduce 2 max Hp per turn.3if mark Darkness.
Reduce extra 5 max Hp when played it.

 :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on March 31, 2012, 11:07:28 AM
:darkness i just got an idea for Shard of Void

shard of void is useless in every deck because it only Reduce max  HP but deal 0 damage

if damage>3(mark darkness)per turn  1SoV help you nothing it cann't help any deck to win

so i think SoV to be a buff

Reduce 2 max Hp per turn.3if mark Darkness.
Reduce extra 5 max Hp when played it.

 :)
Zen (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35399.0.html) begs to differ.
Though, i would appreciate it if it damages both Max HP and current HP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ralouf on March 31, 2012, 11:12:18 AM
Zen is currently not bad because :
50% decks use SoSac, and SoV is a good counter.
50% of the deck use purify and healing to counter SPlat and SoV is a good counter too.

Also remember that what make Zen a good deck is only the 6 OP Sosac in the deck, which allows the user to survive.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on March 31, 2012, 01:31:20 PM
to against Arena deck with SoSa i think 6 SoV is also cann't win how to save life is difficult

to against pvp SoSac is not impossible to defate :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Ciskje on March 31, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
Change nova and supernova? mmmh, bad idea...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AnnaMall on March 31, 2012, 02:49:15 PM
What if this patch gets launched mid war? Shouldn't rules for seraph and especially purify be implemented before hands?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: omegareaper7 on March 31, 2012, 10:52:56 PM
Change nova and supernova? mmmh, bad idea...
No, its a good idea. It'll reduce the frequency of seeing them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Ciskje on April 01, 2012, 12:21:57 PM
Change nova and supernova? mmmh, bad idea...
No, its a good idea. It'll reduce the frequency of seeing them.
I think the priority is changing devourer/pest, or nightmare, not nova and  supernova or other cards supporting your deck against FG (like hourglasses)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 01, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
Change nova and supernova? mmmh, bad idea...
No, its a good idea. It'll reduce the frequency of seeing them.
I think the priority is changing devourer/pest, or nightmare, not nova and  supernova or other cards supporting your deck against FG (like hourglasses)
If you don't mind me asking, why those two? Also, nova and supernova are nerfed because of being overwhelming in pvp (supernova is), not because of PvE.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on April 01, 2012, 03:11:49 PM
The same should be done with BlackHole. It is OP when Nova was nerfed and it is overused in games, especially with Rainbows.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 01, 2012, 03:38:46 PM
The same should be done with BlackHole. It is OP when Nova was nerfed and it is overused in games, especially with Rainbows.
No, it was made in response to excessive Rainbow decks and thus promotes, well, non-Rainbow.  Also, with the presence of Sanctuary, Black Hole isn't as OP.  If you have a problem with Black Holes with your Rainbows, try splashing a few Sanctuaries instead.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: nilsieboy on April 01, 2012, 04:34:58 PM
The same should be done with BlackHole. It is OP when Nova was nerfed and it is overused in games, especially with Rainbows.
black hole is fine, the strength of it came when rainbows became so overused.
just add sanctuaries or play monos or duos where it's close to useles.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 01, 2012, 05:45:28 PM
Change nova and supernova? mmmh, bad idea...
No, its a good idea. It'll reduce the frequency of seeing them.
I think the priority is changing devourer/pest, or nightmare, not nova and  supernova or other cards supporting your deck against FG (like hourglasses)
CArds are not balanced against anything but pvp. If a card is OP in pvp, then it is nerfed. If it is UP in pvp it is buffed.
If a card is OP against FG's but UP in pvp, then it will be buffed
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on April 01, 2012, 07:27:51 PM
The same should be done with BlackHole. It is OP when Nova was nerfed and it is overused in games, especially with Rainbows.
black hole is fine, the strength of it came when rainbows became so overused.
just add sanctuaries or play monos or duos where it's close to useles.
You are Master of Gravity, so I understand that You defend this card ;)
BlackHole is OP also against non-rainbows. I didn't play rainbows and BlackHole really hurts me, especially with Quicksand or Discord.
Nova gives 24 quantum, so BlackHole should also destroy 24 quantum and as bonus for defend card gives 24 heal. Then it will be balanced. Or cancel heal bonus... When SoFo come into a game then players can have 12 BlackHoles (24 in Arena!), remember about it.
I want nerf rainbows, buff gravity, but BH is OP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 01, 2012, 07:29:41 PM
Hum- what you're suggesting makes it OP. 24 quanta drains kills non-rainbows. Also, If your deck is wrecked by losing three quanta, you don't have enough, simple as that.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on April 01, 2012, 07:31:08 PM
Hum- what you're suggesting makes it OP. 24 quanta drains kills non-rainbows. Also, If your deck is wrecked by losing three quanta, you don't have enough, simple as that.
24 as 2x12 of course ;) So absorb 2 quantum for each element.

It isn't only my opinion. In Poll about OP cards BH is one of the most popular (higher are only SoSa - got nerf, Nova - got nerf, Discord - got little nerf and Dim Shield).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: avidteen13 on April 01, 2012, 08:05:23 PM
When does this new modification take effect?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: omegareaper7 on April 01, 2012, 08:48:10 PM
Hum- what you're suggesting makes it OP. 24 quanta drains kills non-rainbows. Also, If your deck is wrecked by losing three quanta, you don't have enough, simple as that.
24 as 2x12 of course ;) So absorb 2 quantum for each element.

It isn't only my opinion. In Poll about OP cards BH is one of the most popular (higher are only SoSa - got nerf, Nova - got nerf, Discord - got little nerf and Dim Shield).
Yes, because so many people used speedbows. It hardly hurts duos at all. Combos don't warrant nerfing of individual cards.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 01, 2012, 08:58:45 PM
Hum- what you're suggesting makes it OP. 24 quanta drains kills non-rainbows. Also, If your deck is wrecked by losing three quanta, you don't have enough, simple as that.
24 as 2x12 of course ;) So absorb 2 quantum for each element.

It isn't only my opinion. In Poll about OP cards BH is one of the most popular (higher are only SoSa - got nerf, Nova - got nerf, Discord - got little nerf and Dim Shield).
Like Omega says, it doesn't warrant a nerf.  It just means have counters.  Which it does.  Unlike SoSa, who only got a counter in the form of Purify and, let's face it, no one really uses Holy Light, and Nova still has no real counter except, wait for it, Black Hole, but is still viable.  And Black Hole doesn't have that wide of a range to be considered OP.  It's like saying Steal and Deflag are OP since it screws up MonoAether.  Or Purify is because it screws up Poison decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 01, 2012, 09:01:20 PM
Hum- what you're suggesting makes it OP. 24 quanta drains kills non-rainbows. Also, If your deck is wrecked by losing three quanta, you don't have enough, simple as that.
24 as 2x12 of course ;) So absorb 2 quantum for each element.

It isn't only my opinion. In Poll about OP cards BH is one of the most popular (higher are only SoSa - got nerf, Nova - got nerf, Discord - got little nerf and Dim Shield).
Like Omega says, it doesn't warrant a nerf.  It just means have counters.  Which it does.  Unlike SoSa, who only got a counter in the form of Purify and, let's face it, no one really uses Holy Light, and Nova still has no real counter except, wait for it, Black Hole, but is still viable.  And Black Hole doesn't have that wide of a range to be considered OP.  It's like saying Steal and Deflag are OP since it screws up MonoAether.  Or Purify is because it screws up Poison decks.
^That. Blackhole has a wide range of counters: playing a non-Rainbow deck, Sanctuary, and other forms of denial against it. While SoSac on the other hand, has too small a niche of counters, which deems it OP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on April 01, 2012, 09:02:32 PM
What Drake said. Hell, if you look at this thread (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31708.0.html), you'll see how someone says a card is OP because a 4-card combo may make it seem OP. Or even SoR, where many of those who dislike it is because they have gotten OTK'd by Instosis. Besides something like Pests, which won't work too great anyways versus Supernova unless you have quite a few out, BH is Super/nova's main counter.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 01, 2012, 09:04:15 PM
By the way, why is this patch taking so long? It's been out for weeks and people should have more than enough time to test/give feedback on the new cards. Just curious.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 01, 2012, 09:14:54 PM
By the way, why is this patch taking so long? It's been out for weeks and people should have more than enough time to test/give feedback on the new cards. Just curious.
The Purify buff has been a chain of changes.  Since then, Afla gets a buff, which means Grey Nymph needs a buff.  And perhaps some things to fix with those FGs with Supernovas.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on April 01, 2012, 09:32:41 PM
Hum- what you're suggesting makes it OP. 24 quanta drains kills non-rainbows. Also, If your deck is wrecked by losing three quanta, you don't have enough, simple as that.
24 as 2x12 of course ;) So absorb 2 quantum for each element.

It isn't only my opinion. In Poll about OP cards BH is one of the most popular (higher are only SoSa - got nerf, Nova - got nerf, Discord - got little nerf and Dim Shield).
Like Omega says, it doesn't warrant a nerf.  It just means have counters.  Which it does.  Unlike SoSa, who only got a counter in the form of Purify and, let's face it, no one really uses Holy Light, and Nova still has no real counter except, wait for it, Black Hole, but is still viable.  And Black Hole doesn't have that wide of a range to be considered OP.  It's like saying Steal and Deflag are OP since it screws up MonoAether.  Or Purify is because it screws up Poison decks.
^That. Blackhole has a wide range of counters: playing a non-Rainbow deck, Sanctuary, and other forms of denial against it. While SoSac on the other hand, has too small a niche of counters, which deems it OP.
Sanctuary is first and the last counter for BH. So I didn't see possibility to avoid BH effect without Sanctuary.
Counter =/= counter and counter against Aflatoxin isn't so important like against BlackHole. But the problem isn't only in counters. BlackHole gives too big advantage against some decks, especially with Discord or Quicksand. When we nerf Nova we should also change BH (remember about SoFocus and next 6x BH). Aflatoxin never gives huge advantage like BlackHole or SoSa. RageQuit against BH is too often. I didn't like situations, when result of the game is known before the game. Game should be balanced and I prefer situations where strategy (+lucky of course) decide about result of the game. And it is a reason why for me SoSa is still to powerful and Purify as counter didn't change it, because it is only one element which can real counter this card. Playing 80% decks against SoSa = RageQuit. The same is with BH or BH+Discord/Quicksand.

But ok, I see that a lot of You think that BH is normal and not powerful card, so I must accept this ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: n00b on April 01, 2012, 09:34:04 PM
Tl;dr, but no, we, at least myself, do not think Black Hole is not powerful. It is simply not overpowered.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 01, 2012, 09:41:33 PM
Also, you can't really equate Black Hole to SoSac.  While "80% of ragequit against it" [where did this statistic come from?], Black Hole only affects, what, less than 10% or so decks?  DiscHole is an annoying strategy, but is also easily avoided by having enough Quanta or PC.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 08, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Updated trainer:

Balancing:
Shard of freedom chance increased to 25%
AI does not play more than 6 Shards of Sacrifice in a game

Bugs:
Scarabs swarm bonus is not removed after the first turn anymore
Catapults can kill an opponent
Devour skill does not grant +1/+1 if the creature they are trying to eat evades the attack
Shard of Freedom animation does not trigger if the creatures are not attacking because of sundial

Others:
Added graphic effects to the targeting crosshair: it makes it easier to spot creatures that might evade targeting.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 08, 2012, 07:33:07 PM
Yay! Think I'm most happy about the Arena SoSa nerf though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 08, 2012, 07:35:36 PM
SoFree lets you avoid abilities? Awesome
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 08, 2012, 09:21:26 PM
Very happy about the Arena SoSac nerf. Now it's not auto quit if you see anyone plays Bone Towers or have a Mark of Death. A potential 24 turns stalling is too OP if one's deck lacks a proper counter.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 09, 2012, 02:47:17 AM
Added more notes to the OP:

It takes now one less consecutive victory to get a special spin.

Deck building page redesigned:
It was too complicated and was repeatedly reaching the maximum limit for the number of objects that can be displayed on a flash page; the new version is much simpler and more efficient, but it does not show a preview of the card art (for most cards it was hidden anyway).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 09, 2012, 02:49:06 AM
Added more notes to the OP:

It takes now one less consecutive victory to get a special spin.

Deck building page redesigned:
It was too complicated and was repeatedly reaching the maximum limit for the number of objects that can be displayed on a flash page; the new version is much simpler and more efficient, but it does not show a preview of the card art (for most cards it was hidden anyway).
That's excellent! Thank you Zanz for making grinding Rares at the Arena less tedious.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Laxadarap on April 09, 2012, 02:51:19 AM
Wow, getting these shards is going to be relatively easy :D.  Only takes 2 platinum wins, and Ai can't sosac spam.  Woohoo!
Also, with the em/healing/ko update, does that mean I could use LA on instosis' chimera and finish every game with an EM?  Found a new farmer :D :D
Unfortunately, its not so, misunderstood the update.
So... when does all of this come out? Any estimate?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 09, 2012, 02:58:59 AM
This is becoming a much bigger update than expected.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: waterzx on April 09, 2012, 03:29:22 AM
5 consecutive wins in Bronze ? I got a desire to play again :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Belligerence on April 09, 2012, 03:56:44 AM
Looking even better than before... new shards, AI won't spam SoSac as much, a way to remove SoSac... awesome! I also like the one less consecutive spin in Arena, a nice change. Looking forward to this update very much.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on April 09, 2012, 04:40:56 AM
One less win? I may try grinding again. I cant wait for this update.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 09, 2012, 04:47:50 AM
One less win? I may try grinding again. I cant wait for this update.
It's actually in beta right now, and works with your current account at: http://www.elementsthegame.com/beta.php

Don't try to PvP though. It'll cause bugs and desyncs.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on April 09, 2012, 05:27:16 AM
One less win? I may try grinding again. I cant wait for this update.
It's actually in beta right now, and works with your current account at: http://www.elementsthegame.com/beta.php

Don't try to PvP though. It'll cause bugs and desyncs.
Thank ye kindly
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on April 09, 2012, 07:55:17 AM
So i used Tha Gold League Killer V 2.0 on Arena Beta. I put down QTs, and for some reason, i got 3 :entropy.
I played Supernova. It generates Singularity, even if i only cast one of them.
I think this bug has been mentioned before and confirmed, but i didn't think it will be carried over to Beta. Is this intentional?
(since this is still beta, i don't post this on bug reporting section)
EDIT: also, on the upgrade screen, the bottom card in every row still displays their picture preview. Probably a graphical glitch. The rest of the cards didn't, though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 09, 2012, 09:07:13 AM
oo the new deckbuilder looks pretty neat, but I suppose it will take a while to get used to it.

One less spin is awesome  :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 09, 2012, 02:39:46 PM
I like this patch more and more.

I was hoping for more on the Deckbuilder side of it, something sorta like Xenos deckbuilder but this is still a great improvement
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 09, 2012, 04:41:29 PM
I think I'll miss the images for deckbuilding. Now it looks just plain. But I suppose I'll get used to it, just like with the new card borders.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 09, 2012, 05:55:35 PM
I'd like to see the old deck menu as optional. With the new one, I understand its efficiency and its lack of graphical bugs is handy, but it's missing a lot of atmosphere. I'll gladly take the graphical bugs over the sterile feel.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 09, 2012, 06:01:30 PM
So i used Tha Gold League Killer V 2.0 on Arena Beta. I put down QTs, and for some reason, i got 3 :entropy.
I played Supernova. It generates Singularity, even if i only cast one of them.
I think this bug has been mentioned before and confirmed, but i didn't think it will be carried over to Beta. Is this intentional?
(since this is still beta, i don't post this on bug reporting section)
EDIT: also, on the upgrade screen, the bottom card in every row still displays their picture preview. Probably a graphical glitch. The rest of the cards didn't, though.

Singularity on first turn bug and upgrade screen graphics fixed in beta. Please report any other bug, otherwise the new version will be online soon (I would say even tonight if nothing else needs to be fixed)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Kakerlake on April 09, 2012, 06:05:22 PM
[...] otherwise the new version will be online soon (I would say even tonight if nothing else needs to be fixed) [...]
:O
Yay! Do it, do it nao!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on April 09, 2012, 06:08:47 PM
Posted this in another topic, but I just found this bug:

Singularities seem to replace Vampire with Immaterial, but not vice versa (word vanishes but not immaterialness).

On top of that there's still a bunch of other bugs from the report a Bug section of which a fix hasn't been mentioned (haven't tested all of them in 1.30). A bunch of them below in spoiler.
Ice bolt vs empty slot (desync) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35224.msg443719.html#msg443719
EM vs arena deck during testing http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33033.msg470414.html#msg470414
Lobo delay (may be intentional) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36614.0.html
Turtle Shield + Scavenger http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36496.0.html
Shard of Serendipity http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34900.msg443749.html#msg443749
Cloak + Pandemonium (desync) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36975.0.html
Deflagration + Sundial http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36269.0.html
Phoenix + Alfatoxin (0|0 creature) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28903.0.html
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 09, 2012, 06:34:56 PM
Ok, I'll take some more time to kill as many as those bugs as I can.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 09, 2012, 06:43:40 PM
Slick avatar. Very slick.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 09, 2012, 07:04:31 PM
Slick avatar. Very slick.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Naesala on April 09, 2012, 07:09:45 PM
Slick avatar. Very slick.
Indeed. and Hooray! 1.3! My shards of patience will cease to suck!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 09, 2012, 11:11:20 PM
Less arena wins? YES!
New card layout, eh, I'm okay with this.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: sammybrahh on April 10, 2012, 09:59:14 AM
I've spent the last couple of months watching this patch grow and grow... it's going to change so much in the game :D
Can't wait though!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on April 10, 2012, 10:09:35 AM
a suggestion

 if HP>100 will get EM also

and if HP<100 if it is full(by SoV) shouldn't get EM

it is balance for use SoD and rasonable for SoV

now the only affect of SoV, is always help opponent get EM,isn't it? ???
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: sammybrahh on April 10, 2012, 10:17:00 AM
a suggestion

 if HP>100 will get EM also

and if HP<100 if it is full(by SoV) shouldn't get EM

it is balance for use SoD and rasonable for SoV

now the only affect of SoV, is always help opponent get EM,isn't it? ???

But then getting SoV on you for one turn and having max 97/98 HP would make it impossible to get EM without having a shard of Divinity or a similar card.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: teffy on April 10, 2012, 10:27:07 AM
It would be easier to get EM, if HP>100 would count. Throw  some SoDs into your deck, and EMs become regular against AI3.
I think it should remain this way: Full Health.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 10, 2012, 10:28:38 AM
now the only affect of SoV, is always help opponent get EM,isn't it? ???

You should be worried about lowering your opponents HP to 0. SoV helps with that. If your opponent is getting an EM, the best fix is not to lose.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on April 10, 2012, 10:54:49 AM
that's thuth :o some sod will easy get

so EM should be  full HP,>=100

but if HP<100 ,even it is full ,I also think shouldn't get EM
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 10, 2012, 11:06:07 AM
that's thuth :o some sod will easy get

so EM should be  full HP,>=100

but if HP<100 ,even it is full ,I also think shouldn't get EM

considering the definition of EM, wich is winning the match with full hp, it doesnt really matter wheter your full hp was 100 or less or even more as long as you ended the match with all of it
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on April 10, 2012, 12:07:16 PM
EM didn't give something special, so I don't see problems with EM 90HP.
When EM will give special spin (like in Arena) then it will be interesting "buff" for SoV to make EM only >=100HP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on April 10, 2012, 05:54:55 PM
Quote
[2012-04-09 04:57:18] zanzarino: But, if you want to try to pvp against someone else in 1.30 please do and let me know if it works
Done:
(http://imageplay.net/img/tya22261041/130.png)
No desynchs despite singularities on the field (yay).
Seemed to start out more laggish than usual but eh, what would one expect with two windows open at the same time? :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UTAlan on April 10, 2012, 06:46:29 PM
that's thuth :o some sod will easy get

so EM should be  full HP,>=100

but if HP<100 ,even it is full ,I also think shouldn't get EM

Rewards are affected by your final HP value, not just percentage. Which means an EM of 1/1HP gives a smaller reward than a non-EM win of 195/196 HP.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Atico on April 10, 2012, 09:24:11 PM
But EM of 90/90 HP gives more than 99/100HP and here is a "problem". For me it doesn't really matter, EM gives only a small reward so this kind of "buff" for SoV it is discuss for discuss ;)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 10, 2012, 09:35:43 PM
But EM of 90/90 HP gives more than 99/100HP and here is a "problem". For me it doesn't really matter, EM gives only a small reward so this kind of "buff" for SoV it is discuss for discuss ;)

because tecnically its harder to get 90 health out 90 than 99 out 100. Just think about miracle as one good example of that. EM can give you a pretty big reward in plat, where a win can get you more than 1K electrum per match not counting the spins
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 10, 2012, 11:29:24 PM
Hmmm any idea exactly when 1.3 would go live? It has been a looooong patch.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Fireleaf on April 10, 2012, 11:33:59 PM
Where can the new card backgrounds and redesigned deck screen be seen? They don't seem to be in the trainer.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 10, 2012, 11:36:09 PM
Where can the new card backgrounds and redesigned deck screen be seen? They don't seem to be in the trainer.

elementsthegame.com/beta.php (http://elementsthegame.com/beta.php)

You have to login using your real account though. And I dont think there are new backgrounds, just redesigned deck screen.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Fireleaf on April 10, 2012, 11:38:56 PM
Ahh... I feel so silly now. Thx.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 11, 2012, 03:15:45 AM
New beta version now online; bug fixed:

Supernova triggering singularity during first turn: fixed
Ice bolt vs empty slot (desync): fixed
EM vs arena deck during testing: fixed
Lobo delay (may be intentional): was not intentional but I like it this way
Cloak + Pandemonium (desync): unupgraded pandemonium now removes cloak for both payers
Deflagration + Sundial while I have a zero charges sundial on my side: fixed*
Phoenix + Alfatoxin (0|0 creature): fixed, now the phoenix turns into a malignant cell

Turtle Shield + Scavenger: will be fixed soon: low priority
Shard of Serendipity: will be fixed soon: could not reproduce bug; this one looks like a time consuming one

*fixed painfully and for all the possible deflagration/steal combinations

Note: fixed means that the bug "should" be fixed, more testing is very welcome
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: UTAlan on April 11, 2012, 03:20:19 AM
w00t!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Laxadarap on April 11, 2012, 03:27:57 AM
So how long are we expecting this to be running in the beta for (before we get it in the actual game?)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on April 11, 2012, 03:31:32 AM
So how long are we expecting this to be running in the beta for (before we get it in the actual game?)
A few days. If everything's good, it will move to Final.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 11, 2012, 06:23:40 AM
oo deck builder changed again
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AnnaMall on April 11, 2012, 06:55:23 AM
Using the real account in beta means earnings are carried over as well? i mean should i start doing everything in beta?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ColorlessGreen on April 11, 2012, 07:00:26 AM
Everything you do in beta is saved to your real account. If you're playing against arena or want to test stuff, beta is a good idea. The new cards aren't available, though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on April 11, 2012, 08:18:07 AM
Yay for bug fixes :)
I'll definitely try them out as soon as I can make some more time.

Ice bolt vs empty slot (desync): fixed
Either I am ridiculously unlucky or it is fixed by not freezing anymore.
EM vs arena deck during testing: fixed
No longer displays EM despite getting one and no score is lost: confirmed
Cloak + Pandemonium (desync): unupgraded pandemonium now removes cloak for both payers
Confirmed, both sides show the same thing, too. Upgraded pandemonium unaffected as intended (idk, felt like testing it)
Deflagration + Sundial while I have a zero charges sundial on my side: fixed*
Basic case tested and is indeed fixed. Tried some other weird cases too which all seemed ok.
Phoenix + Alfatoxin (0|0 creature): fixed, now the phoenix turns into a malignant cell
Confirmed.
Also liking the deck interface change (less emptiness between cards)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 11, 2012, 08:31:49 AM
Definitely loving the lower spin requirements :) woot
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Belligerence on April 11, 2012, 01:48:18 PM
Is targeting priority being adjusted with this version? I know for the past month or so, I've been able to comfortably farm FGs using Poison Dials, and thus know how the AI reacts to certain situations. When I have an Arsenic out, and I play Sundial, the Arsenic is always targeted first. No exceptions. When I play against Arena on Beta, every time a deck has PC, it targets my Sundials, waits 2-5 turns, then targets my Arsenic (even if it has repeatable PC, like Pulverizer with 10+ Gravity quanta). It's not really a bug, so didn't know where to post it, but is this intentional?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on April 11, 2012, 02:41:38 PM
I've been using Pharaoh for Plat farming. I noticed that every time my Scarab got PU'd, it sets the new Scarab's max HP to current HP. As a result, the Scarab didn't lost HP due to Swarm passive.
Example:
i got 5 Scarabs, 3|5 each. Opponent use PU.
Expected: opponent got 3|5 Scarab which turns to 3|1 after his turn ended.
Fact: opponent got 3|5 Scarab, permanently.

Not sure if new feature or bug.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Mathematistic on April 11, 2012, 02:48:41 PM
I've been using Pharaoh for Plat farming. I noticed that every time my Scarab got PU'd, it sets the new Scarab's max HP to current HP. As a result, the Scarab didn't lost HP due to Swarm passive.
Example:
i got 5 Scarabs, 3|5 each. Opponent use PU.
Expected: opponent got 3|5 Scarab which turns to 3|1 after his turn ended.
Fact: opponent got 3|5 Scarab, permanently.

Not sure if new feature or bug.

I can confirm this. Using my Mummy+SoR+Rewind against mono-aether, opponent TUed my 4|7 scarab and it remained 4|7, even when he ends his turn.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 11, 2012, 03:30:12 PM
I've been using Pharaoh for Plat farming. I noticed that every time my Scarab got PU'd, it sets the new Scarab's max HP to current HP. As a result, the Scarab didn't lost HP due to Swarm passive.
Example:
i got 5 Scarabs, 3|5 each. Opponent use PU.
Expected: opponent got 3|5 Scarab which turns to 3|1 after his turn ended.
Fact: opponent got 3|5 Scarab, permanently.

Not sure if new feature or bug.

It is a side effect of another bug fix for scarabs, unless this lead to exploits, and I can not think of any right now, I would say we can let PU keep full stats for the scarab copied.

Duplicating your own scarab will probably apply the swarm bonus on top of the existing stats, and it could lead to really big ones chaining PU's; but it requires so many cards that it is probably not worth it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: killsdazombies on April 11, 2012, 03:45:06 PM
The AI will play singularities if nightmared into its hand, and the AI will play sosac if a singularity is out along with another creature.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: MatrimKK on April 11, 2012, 05:14:41 PM
Had opponent use 2 novas in one turn with no singularity generated, will try to replicate. 
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 11, 2012, 05:16:07 PM
Had opponent use 2 novas in one turn with no singularity generated, will try to replicate.
Normal behavior? :v
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: YoungSot on April 11, 2012, 05:21:14 PM
Had opponent use 2 novas in one turn with no singularity generated, will try to replicate.
Normal behavior? :v

Yeah Mat just to clarify, Supernovas spawn singularities after a chain of 2, but regular novas require 3 in a row.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Sevs on April 11, 2012, 07:29:33 PM
The new your deck screen looks much better.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: MatrimKK on April 11, 2012, 07:52:25 PM
ty for clarification ^^~
also sadness singularities are fun D':
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: SnoWeb on April 12, 2012, 08:59:09 AM
- I love the new version of Shard of Patience. The buff is great without making it too strong. Its use is still tricky and requires skills now. It is very nice. I might even start to play again with water.

- I love the buff on purify too which coupled with the modification of SoP create the required nerf on the Shard of Sacrifice. Me gusta.

- I am really looking forward a "little modification which changes everything" for Shard of Void. But again the solution might lie in another MaxHP-reducing card.

- The reduction of the league requirements for the special spin is nice, too. It makes the leagues more attractive. Also with the arrival of such a big amount of rare cards, I can only appreciate.

- The new design of the Deck building page is not much clearer and I don't feel the difference in the loading time. I wonder what was the need here. I mean, it is still nice but I don't really see the point.

- Concerning Seraph, I understand that it is a flavour card and all. I will not say again what I said in the appropriate topic. I just find it meh. This said, the art is great. Btw, the art made by VRT for Psion(ist) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28117.msg478957.html#msg478957) is one of his best IMO. I see that the presence of new artists in the place emulated his creativity.

- I still have to test the new shards to fix my opinion. I just tried Shard of Integrity because I was waiting for it so much. Here I have the inverse feeling that for Seraph. IMO needed a new tricky mecanic whereas earth didn't. This one is so complicate that I haven't found yet how to use it. I hope it will not end up in my "funny but not for great deck card" drawer.

- I think that all shards should be limited to 6 in an arena deck not only SoSa.

All in all a great upgrade. Thanks Zanz.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: freez on April 12, 2012, 12:05:04 PM
Shard of Void have a good usage now with the new shard of Patience.

I already liked purify but now, woaw.
Maybe too much for only one card.

I notice one time some display error building a deck.
Cards were shown in a weird order removing some.
I'll try to track it.



Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Gunthar on April 12, 2012, 02:24:46 PM
I tested the 1.3 beta. Most stuff runs quite well. One thing I think many will still concern is the steep step bettween Elder (AI Level 3) and Half Blood (AI Level 4). The Half Bloods are still much nearer to the FG than to the elder. What's about lowering the mark to 2x and the HP to 150? That would look quite well for Half Bloods. And the rewards for winning against a HB are too low also. It is much easier to farm elder than playing vs HB.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: silinda on April 12, 2012, 02:33:01 PM
I know I've suggested that very same thing, right down to the rewards...even with the drop in mark and hp, the rewards do seem a bit low because of the mix of rewards...I can get unupped cards from bronze and do tend to get quite a few and without nearly as tough a fight as AI4.

I've suggested a change in rewards for even shards or other rare items over basic items to make people want to play ai4 instead of grinding ai3 and then farming FGs.

I tested the 1.3 beta. Most stuff runs quite well. One thing I think many will still concern is the steep step bettween Elder (AI Level 3) and Half Blood (AI Level 4). The Half Bloods are still much nearer to the FG than to the elder. What's about lowering the mark to 2x and the HP to 150? That would look quite well for Half Bloods. And the rewards for winning against a HB are too low also. It is much easier to farm elder than playing vs HB.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 12, 2012, 05:39:35 PM
I know I've suggested that very same thing, right down to the rewards...even with the drop in mark and hp, the rewards do seem a bit low because of the mix of rewards...I can get unupped cards from bronze and do tend to get quite a few and without nearly as tough a fight as AI4.

I've suggested a change in rewards for even shards or other rare items over basic items to make people want to play ai4 instead of grinding ai3 and then farming FGs.

I tested the 1.3 beta. Most stuff runs quite well. One thing I think many will still concern is the steep step bettween Elder (AI Level 3) and Half Blood (AI Level 4). The Half Bloods are still much nearer to the FG than to the elder. What's about lowering the mark to 2x and the HP to 150? That would look quite well for Half Bloods. And the rewards for winning against a HB are too low also. It is much easier to farm elder than playing vs HB.

I created a thread exactly to propose changes to half-bloods, so there would be more reasons to farm them

in the end there were 2 most voted options:

-lower their hp to half and lower their mark to 2x so they are considerably easier to win and make them a good alternative after farming AI3 for a while

-The other option would change the way you can farm Half Bloods. They would remain the same as they are now, with their hp and 3x mark, but now you would have win streaks. For each consecutive win, you would be rewarded more electrum, but at the same time, the half bloods would have more upgraded cards in their decks, making them progressively harder to beat but at the same time easier to get an upgraded card from. If you would be able to reach a certain streak, Half bloods would run entirely from upgraded cards, making them virtually as strong as False Gods, just with random decks, and you would gain a good amount of electrum per win. when you lose, the streak ends and Half bloods return to normal state until you start making a new streak.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 12, 2012, 06:22:25 PM
I created a thread exactly to propose changes to half-bloods, so there would be more reasons to farm them

in the end there were 2 most voted options:

-lower their hp to half and lower their mark to 2x so they are considerably easier to win and make them a good alternative after farming AI3 for a while

-The other option would change the way you can farm Half Bloods. They would remain the same as they are now, with their hp and 3x mark, but now you would have win streaks. For each consecutive win, you would be rewarded more electrum, but at the same time, the half bloods would have more upgraded cards in their decks, making them progressively harder to beat but at the same time easier to get an upgraded card from. If you would be able to reach a certain streak, Half bloods would run entirely from upgraded cards, making them virtually as strong as False Gods, just with random decks, and you would gain a good amount of electrum per win. when you lose, the streak ends and Half bloods return to normal state until you start making a new streak.
Win streaks for Half-Bloods will be wonderful, making them potentially more challenging (they're more unpredictable than the False Gods) and rewarding at the same time (for those who likes to have a more diverse collection of upgraded cards other than the ones False Gods offer or Rares from the Arena).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 13, 2012, 01:36:53 AM
I know I've suggested that very same thing, right down to the rewards...even with the drop in mark and hp, the rewards do seem a bit low because of the mix of rewards...I can get unupped cards from bronze and do tend to get quite a few and without nearly as tough a fight as AI4.

I've suggested a change in rewards for even shards or other rare items over basic items to make people want to play ai4 instead of grinding ai3 and then farming FGs.

I tested the 1.3 beta. Most stuff runs quite well. One thing I think many will still concern is the steep step bettween Elder (AI Level 3) and Half Blood (AI Level 4). The Half Bloods are still much nearer to the FG than to the elder. What's about lowering the mark to 2x and the HP to 150? That would look quite well for Half Bloods. And the rewards for winning against a HB are too low also. It is much easier to farm elder than playing vs HB.

I created a thread exactly to propose changes to half-bloods, so there would be more reasons to farm them

in the end there were 2 most voted options:

-lower their hp to half and lower their mark to 2x so they are considerably easier to win and make them a good alternative after farming AI3 for a while

-The other option would change the way you can farm Half Bloods. They would remain the same as they are now, with their hp and 3x mark, but now you would have win streaks. For each consecutive win, you would be rewarded more electrum, but at the same time, the half bloods would have more upgraded cards in their decks, making them progressively harder to beat but at the same time easier to get an upgraded card from. If you would be able to reach a certain streak, Half bloods would run entirely from upgraded cards, making them virtually as strong as False Gods, just with random decks, and you would gain a good amount of electrum per win. when you lose, the streak ends and Half bloods return to normal state until you start making a new streak.
Love the second proposal. Right now, Arena has taken over as the step between AI3 and FGs.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 13, 2012, 01:41:00 AM
I know I've suggested that very same thing, right down to the rewards...even with the drop in mark and hp, the rewards do seem a bit low because of the mix of rewards...I can get unupped cards from bronze and do tend to get quite a few and without nearly as tough a fight as AI4.

I've suggested a change in rewards for even shards or other rare items over basic items to make people want to play ai4 instead of grinding ai3 and then farming FGs.

I tested the 1.3 beta. Most stuff runs quite well. One thing I think many will still concern is the steep step bettween Elder (AI Level 3) and Half Blood (AI Level 4). The Half Bloods are still much nearer to the FG than to the elder. What's about lowering the mark to 2x and the HP to 150? That would look quite well for Half Bloods. And the rewards for winning against a HB are too low also. It is much easier to farm elder than playing vs HB.

I created a thread exactly to propose changes to half-bloods, so there would be more reasons to farm them

in the end there were 2 most voted options:

-lower their hp to half and lower their mark to 2x so they are considerably easier to win and make them a good alternative after farming AI3 for a while

-The other option would change the way you can farm Half Bloods. They would remain the same as they are now, with their hp and 3x mark, but now you would have win streaks. For each consecutive win, you would be rewarded more electrum, but at the same time, the half bloods would have more upgraded cards in their decks, making them progressively harder to beat but at the same time easier to get an upgraded card from. If you would be able to reach a certain streak, Half bloods would run entirely from upgraded cards, making them virtually as strong as False Gods, just with random decks, and you would gain a good amount of electrum per win. when you lose, the streak ends and Half bloods return to normal state until you start making a new streak.
Love the second proposal. Right now, Arena has taken over as the step between AI3 and FGs.
Agreed
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 13, 2012, 02:57:46 AM
*walks in and looks at posters*
*sees Zanz is still at only 27 posts in this board*
*walks out*
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 13, 2012, 03:44:21 AM
*walks in and looks at posters*
*sees Zanz is still at only 27 posts in this board*
*walks out*

OMG BP speaks the truth! Dying for a Zanz comment; hoping the comment lets 1.30 commence.

-Exits-
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 13, 2012, 05:43:07 AM
If not... Well, we're still playing the waiting game...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 13, 2012, 06:29:21 AM
I know I've suggested that very same thing, right down to the rewards...even with the drop in mark and hp, the rewards do seem a bit low because of the mix of rewards...I can get unupped cards from bronze and do tend to get quite a few and without nearly as tough a fight as AI4.

I've suggested a change in rewards for even shards or other rare items over basic items to make people want to play ai4 instead of grinding ai3 and then farming FGs.

I tested the 1.3 beta. Most stuff runs quite well. One thing I think many will still concern is the steep step bettween Elder (AI Level 3) and Half Blood (AI Level 4). The Half Bloods are still much nearer to the FG than to the elder. What's about lowering the mark to 2x and the HP to 150? That would look quite well for Half Bloods. And the rewards for winning against a HB are too low also. It is much easier to farm elder than playing vs HB.

I created a thread exactly to propose changes to half-bloods, so there would be more reasons to farm them

in the end there were 2 most voted options:

-lower their hp to half and lower their mark to 2x so they are considerably easier to win and make them a good alternative after farming AI3 for a while

-The other option would change the way you can farm Half Bloods. They would remain the same as they are now, with their hp and 3x mark, but now you would have win streaks. For each consecutive win, you would be rewarded more electrum, but at the same time, the half bloods would have more upgraded cards in their decks, making them progressively harder to beat but at the same time easier to get an upgraded card from. If you would be able to reach a certain streak, Half bloods would run entirely from upgraded cards, making them virtually as strong as False Gods, just with random decks, and you would gain a good amount of electrum per win. when you lose, the streak ends and Half bloods return to normal state until you start making a new streak.
Love the second proposal. Right now, Arena has taken over as the step between AI3 and FGs.
Agreed
+1 to this. The balacing would be tricky, but i'm sure zanz's able to do it. =)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: alegre27 on April 13, 2012, 11:21:45 AM
so when are these going to be effective?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 13, 2012, 12:00:54 PM
Vampire Dagger still won't give EM in beta?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 13, 2012, 12:04:15 PM
Vampire Dagger still won't give EM in beta?
if your last vamp attack is the one to give you the full hp, em won't happen. That is due to fixing antimatter/poison bug.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 13, 2012, 07:08:41 PM
Here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37674.0.html) is the link for the thread about Half Bloods if you are interested and yes, i would love if zanz would agree to the second option and change them :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 14, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
1.30 is now online.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Fireleaf on April 14, 2012, 01:21:24 AM
At last! I can't wait to try it!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 14, 2012, 01:23:49 AM
Woo! Its on. Finally!

Edit: LOVE the new deckbuilder page. Looks much neater.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 14, 2012, 01:26:20 AM
Good bye 1.293.  Hello 1.30!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BunKeR on April 14, 2012, 01:28:18 AM
oooo pretty >_<
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 14, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
Woot 12 of each Rares here I come again!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on April 14, 2012, 01:58:02 AM
Have the new shards added to the game yet?
I heard someone said that the new shards will be added in a few days after the new version is live.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on April 14, 2012, 01:58:42 AM
According to Zanz, new cards will come tomorrow.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 14, 2012, 02:19:15 AM
*comes in*
*sees Zanz is at 28 posts*
*moves mouse to back button*
*double takes*
*reads thread*
WOOT!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Laxadarap on April 14, 2012, 02:23:36 AM
*comes in*
*sees Zanz is at 28 posts*
*moves mouse to back button*
*double takes*
*reads thread*
WOOT!

Where does it say the number of posts? I don't see it up at the top where it was on the old forums.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Boingo on April 14, 2012, 03:08:57 AM
Where does it say the number of posts? I don't see it up at the top where it was on the old forums.
Try clicking the "+" button next to the word "Author" at the top of the thread.  It should then display the thread's contributors/number of posts.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Laxadarap on April 14, 2012, 03:09:49 AM
Where does it say the number of posts? I don't see it up at the top where it was on the old forums.
Try clicking the "+" button next to the word "Author" at the top of the thread.  It should then display the thread's contributors/number of posts.

Oh ok, thanks.  That twas it.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 14, 2012, 04:52:53 AM
So pestal is a great gold league killer now. Much more effecient since it has a lot more reliability than platinum, and still requires the same amount pf wins for the old plat in gold now.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Bloom on April 14, 2012, 05:08:12 AM
So pestal is a great gold league killer now. Much more effecient since it has a lot more reliability than platinum, and still requires the same amount pf wins for the old plat in gold now.

Could someone post a link to an effecient Pestal deck used for Gold farming?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 14, 2012, 05:10:24 AM
by BluePriest
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
606 606 606 606 606 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t8 7t9 7t9 7t9 7t9 7ta 7ta 7tb 7td 7td 7um 7um 7um 7um 7um 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 8pu


OF course it is suppose to be all upped cards, but I dont have all upped cards yet. Working on building a rush deck to see how it does against arena (a non SN deck since it was nerfed hard)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Bloom on April 14, 2012, 05:13:31 AM
So you suggest Aether mark and Dark Pends over Aether Towers then? And ty
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Yamamoto on April 14, 2012, 05:58:17 AM
deck which need supernove to gain elements is totally useless now n supernove it itself is turned to rubbish...
and the nuff seems dose not affect the arena's deck, does it ?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 14, 2012, 06:00:14 AM
deck which need supernove to gain elements is totally useless now n supernove it itself is turned to rubbish...
and the nuff seems dose not affect the arena's deck, does it ?

It's not useless; you just have to learn to not play your Supernovas mindless such as when you're playing against a deck with Black Holes.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 14, 2012, 06:05:18 AM
1.30? Woo! Ah, So what if I don't do my computer homework - it's (a)live!!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 14, 2012, 06:10:23 AM
1.30? Woo! Ah, So what if I don't do my computer homework - it's (a)live!!

No new cards yet though. :( I don't see the reason why Zanz wouldn't release the cards with it; we already tested for bugs in beta and he fixed them all (as far as wel know), 1.30 on Live is the exact same thing as 1.30 on Beta.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Yamamoto on April 14, 2012, 06:11:28 AM
deck which need supernove to gain elements is totally useless now n supernove it itself is turned to rubbish...
and the nuff seems dose not affect the arena's deck, does it ?

It's not useless; you just have to learn to not play your Supernovas mindless such as when you're playing against a deck with Black Holes.
as im a green hand ,hence i can only take the JMZ classic n Instosis as an example... ;( anyway, "Today, the old must give way to the new. "
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28027.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28027.0.html)
http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/decks/rainbow-decks/instosis/ (http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/decks/rainbow-decks/instosis/)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Helston on April 14, 2012, 06:26:27 AM
1.30? Woo! Ah, So what if I don't do my computer homework - it's (a)live!!

No new cards yet though. :( I don't see the reason why Zanz wouldn't release the cards with it; we already tested for bugs in beta and he fixed them all (as far as wel know), 1.30 on Live is the exact same thing as 1.30 on Beta.

Zanz does it to make sure everyone's playing the right version. If someone playing 1.29 comes up against someone with a new card, there's going to be some crazy problems.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 14, 2012, 06:57:04 AM
1.30? Woo! Ah, So what if I don't do my computer homework - it's (a)live!!

No new cards yet though. :( I don't see the reason why Zanz wouldn't release the cards with it; we already tested for bugs in beta and he fixed them all (as far as wel know), 1.30 on Live is the exact same thing as 1.30 on Beta.

Zanz does it to make sure everyone's playing the right version. If someone playing 1.29 comes up against someone with a new card, there's going to be some crazy problems.

Good point, but that's the same situation as 1.293 Live and 1.3 Beta: it just causes desyncs.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: rowcla on April 14, 2012, 07:19:08 AM
new deck creation screen is quite literally making me feel sick...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: MystiK_ on April 14, 2012, 07:29:18 AM
Same here :/
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: McSod on April 14, 2012, 07:34:23 AM
You won't even notice the difference after a week. :p
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Joe21 on April 14, 2012, 07:34:48 AM
Glory to 1.3!

I got used to the new deck building screen quite fast
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Absol on April 14, 2012, 07:42:03 AM
The new deckbuilding screen isn't half bad. The old new deckbuilding screen is. Doesn't feel like a CCG at all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Calindu on April 14, 2012, 07:50:24 AM
I liked the first version that zanz came with in 1.30, it was so elegant.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Foraker on April 14, 2012, 07:51:41 AM
new deck creation screen is quite literally making me feel sick...

But everyone with a slower PC is glad. Beause it increases the performance.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: drolly on April 14, 2012, 08:07:53 AM
deck which need supernove to gain elements is totally useless now n supernove it itself is turned to rubbish...

Cannot confirm this at all. I just finished my first 1.30 winning streak in Silver league with willng3's Wrecking Ball. The SN nerf slowed down my deck only once, so it's clear that the winrate is reduced, but I have the feeling that requiring only four consecutive wins somehow compensates this. And here comes my next Morning Star ...

I like how your hand seems to be "cursed" by SN once you play it, this is a nice reminder of the nerf.

However, the new version seems to cause more lagging on my computer than the previous one. In 1.293, only a minor lag occurred once the first upgraded card came into play (due to the shiny background), now most card animations aren't smooth anymore. :( Is there a way to increase the perfomance for flash games at all? I suspect it has to do with said graphical effect, and playing an upgraded SN bow doesn't help either then. My AI speed is set to high, by the way.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Misfire on April 14, 2012, 11:08:37 AM
new deck creation screen is quite literally making me feel sick...
Definitely. It looks like an endgame screen of a PS2 arcade now. I liked this neatly arranged deck view of old, and it didn't make me feel it's not a ccg at all.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragtom on April 14, 2012, 12:19:46 PM
i hope mutation will be edited to include seraph's ability 'divine shield'.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 14, 2012, 01:40:20 PM
1.30? Woo! Ah, So what if I don't do my computer homework - it's (a)live!!

No new cards yet though. :( I don't see the reason why Zanz wouldn't release the cards with it; we already tested for bugs in beta and he fixed them all (as far as wel know), 1.30 on Live is the exact same thing as 1.30 on Beta.

Zanz does it to make sure everyone's playing the right version. If someone playing 1.29 comes up against someone with a new card, there's going to be some crazy problems.

Good point, but that's the same situation as 1.293 Live and 1.3 Beta: it just causes desyncs.
People that know about beta are unsually informed enough to know not to play against people in the non beta though.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 14, 2012, 02:24:43 PM
i hope mutation will be edited to include seraph's ability 'divine shield'.
That sounds fun.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: zanzarino on April 14, 2012, 03:24:41 PM
The new 1.3 cards are now available (after refreshing temporary files):

In the bazaar (Seraph)
In the special spin (Shards)
Via donations (Shards)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 14, 2012, 03:30:48 PM
farm ALL THE SHARDS!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 14, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
Woot 12 of each Rares here I come again!

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Joe21 on April 14, 2012, 03:37:30 PM
The new 1.3 cards are now available (after refreshing temporary files):

In the bazaar (Seraph)
In the special spin (Shards)
Via donations (Shards)

I'm guessing what sinergyies will come with seraph...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: kenwa on April 14, 2012, 08:33:03 PM
The nova/SN nerf doesn't seem to apply to the arena decks. :(
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on April 14, 2012, 08:34:59 PM
AI doesn't play more than 1 SN/2 Novas per turn, so singularities aren't produced. Playing only 1 SN a turn does not produce a singularity.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on April 14, 2012, 08:35:40 PM
The nova/SN nerf doesn't seem to apply to the arena decks. :(

I'm pretty sure it does.  At least, I've found the AI only playing one SN at a time or two novas at a time.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: kenwa on April 14, 2012, 08:38:33 PM
I just got hammered twice.  AI dropped 3 SN in a row, and no singularities.  I just cleared my cache, maybe it was a glitch
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: bogtro on April 14, 2012, 08:39:38 PM
You probably didn't update your client to the latest patch. Clear your cache and refresh.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Newbiecake on April 14, 2012, 09:15:14 PM
Zanz, can you tell us which FGs have Shards besides Osiris and Akebono? And are they winnable in the slots?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Marvaddin on April 15, 2012, 12:16:38 AM
Shards in FGs? Are you sure?

Well, a lot of time ago people used to say that FGs had all those advantages because they werent very smart, and those advantages could be partially removed once the AI was better... wow, now they not once are much smarter, but keep all advantages, have increasead in variety a lot, making them much harder to fight against, and now have access to the cards I always thought about as a small player advantage to try balance their powers. I guess Im starting to hate shards even more.

Lovely how our beloved developer always makes all harder to us.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 15, 2012, 12:25:17 AM
One way to keep us on our toes while we wait for the Trials.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Cunning_Wish on April 15, 2012, 02:34:14 AM
Glory to new cards!!! :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 15, 2012, 05:51:57 AM
Osiris decided to throw his momentum'd scarabs at me when they were at 4¦2. Lolwut.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AP579 on April 15, 2012, 08:01:02 AM
CARDS.
CARRRRRDSSSSS

Adding too many rares will result in more duds for rarespins though. D:

But.

CARDDDDDDDDDDS

:D

(The card art? At first, I thought it wasn't done loading. Lol. Um, the borders could potentially be changed if zanz wants to, as in, in gaming. Because they look nicer, just feeling too thin in the deckbuilder though.)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chemist on April 15, 2012, 10:20:12 AM
First of all: Yay, new update! Big one, too. 

It's nice to see the shards set is complete now. Hopefully any new in-element cards will be easier to balance.

I probably won't have much time to play before summer, but it's nice to see the arena win streak requirements reduced. Haven't noticed any performance boost with the deckbuilding screen, but I guess that was targeted at low-end systems.

It's also nice to see all the new bug fixes, though I'd like to mention here that the -5 electrum / -5 score per arena win bug is still there (and so I'm guessing the PvP reward amounts are still bugged as well).

Overall: Hooray for new content. :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: windows on April 15, 2012, 11:10:06 AM
Hi i just registered the forum to share my huge disappointment about deck presentation in 1.3
How ugly is that ? how could it be uglier ?

http://drift.3dspirit.fr/temp/JustUgly.jpg

It was very nice in 1.29
Now its just gross, black, and inconsistent with the whole game style.

I am VERY disappointend by this step backward. Wake up ! Do something, am sure its a mistake )

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pikachufan2164 on April 15, 2012, 11:21:48 AM
Hi i just registered the forum to share my huge disappointment about deck presentation in 1.3
How ugly is that ? how could it be uglier ?

http://drift.3dspirit.fr/temp/JustUgly.jpg

It was very nice in 1.29
Now its just gross, black, and inconsistent with the whole game style.

I am VERY disappointend by this step backward. Wake up ! Do something, am sure its a mistake )
I'd rather not lag every single time I add add a card to my deck, or when I load in a deck code.
Yes, the old deckbuilding screen looked nice, but it was also slow and rather prone to bugs. The new deckbuilding screen runs faster and smoother (for example, adding cards one by one to your deck now takes less time than before), and generally feels more responsive than the lagginess that occurred in the old version.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: windows on April 15, 2012, 11:38:26 AM
thnx for the quote pikachu, sure enough i didnt take time to read all the release notes.
Ok then it may be faster, but, I, rather have at least something that is not at the opposite of the global graphical style and spirit of the game.

To me, Element is about finesse. The new graphics for deck building as it is now, are all but finesse. That big black bold outline makes it heavier than the Chimera... in that perspective, it is consistent : the chimera is one of the ugliest card out there. Its a step backward. )
Well, no offense, i just hope this issue will be addressed at some point soon.

Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 15, 2012, 11:40:41 AM
A possibility would be to have the option to change interface in settings.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 15, 2012, 12:07:28 PM
I think just a slight tweak in the graphics could make the world of difference.  Like, say, make the bottom and right edges fade out to invisibility, rather than just ending abruptly like they do now.  Imagine them if they started fading where you can see the top of the picture on the card and were invisible when they reached what is now the edge.  It'd just be a bit smoother, I think.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Lex on April 15, 2012, 03:27:25 PM
In new deck editor all cards have dark/black thin border - can I get light/white one again like it was before changes?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: kenwa on April 15, 2012, 05:48:47 PM
I like the deck presentation.  I think it's clean and streamline.  I like that the upgraded cards have black lettering and borders and they are last.  I think it's pretty slick, personally.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 15, 2012, 05:50:21 PM
I like the deck presentation.  I think it's clean and streamline.  I like that the upgraded cards have black lettering and borders and they are last.  I think it's pretty slick, personally.
That part's been that way.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on April 15, 2012, 06:13:39 PM
Osiris decided to throw his momentum'd scarabs at me when they were at 4¦2. Lolwut.

I really wish that happened all the time, lol. Next is 3|1.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 15, 2012, 06:30:23 PM
Zanz finally beat furballdn in post count! :P
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: kenwa on April 15, 2012, 06:45:24 PM
I like the deck presentation.  I think it's clean and streamline.  I like that the upgraded cards have black lettering and borders and they are last.  I think it's pretty slick, personally.
That part's been that way.
there is something different though. I think maybe the tooth on the bottom left corner
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 15, 2012, 07:09:58 PM
I've just gained and used my first Shard of Freedom.  I love the graphic for when a creature gets a +50% attack.

What with that and winning 2  :air Nymphs recently I'm excited about having a  :air deck for the first time ever.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Tsmuji on April 15, 2012, 07:52:02 PM
Sorry if I'm just being a nub and this was mentioned, but I think my mind was just blown when I was happily instosis'ing away and then Akebono pulls out a shard of focus and destroys me.

Gods with shards? D:
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 15, 2012, 08:06:22 PM
Sorry if I'm just being a nub and this was mentioned, but I think my mind was just blown when I was happily instosis'ing away and then Akebono pulls out a shard of focus and destroys me.

Gods with shards? D:
It's known that some FGs now have shards, but as far as I know a complete list of which FGs and their respective shards has not been made yet. Be ready for more mind-blowing
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on April 15, 2012, 10:24:50 PM
Sorry if I'm just being a nub and this was mentioned, but I think my mind was just blown when I was happily instosis'ing away and then Akebono pulls out a shard of focus and destroys me.

Gods with shards? D:
It's known that some FGs now have shards, but as far as I know a complete list of which FGs and their respective shards has not been made yet. Be ready for more mind-blowing.

WHAT?! I am scared now.   ???
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: teffy on April 15, 2012, 10:29:10 PM
Sorry if I'm just being a nub and this was mentioned, but I think my mind was just blown when I was happily instosis'ing away and then Akebono pulls out a shard of focus and destroys me.

Gods with shards? D:
It's known that some FGs now have shards, but as far as I know a complete list of which FGs and their respective shards has not been made yet. Be ready for more mind-blowing

Then you are not up to date:

Akebono does indeed have 4 Shards of Focus (2 in code). Osiris also has 4/2 SoF. They are the only ones who have changed.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Rutarete on April 15, 2012, 10:32:11 PM
Thanks for telling me Teffy. I'm now up to date.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: sammybrahh on April 15, 2012, 11:31:19 PM
Akebono still has no chance against antimatter & liquid shadow :D thanks for the upped overdrives
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 15, 2012, 11:45:07 PM
Akebono still has no chance against antimatter & liquid shadow :D thanks for the upped overdrives
Yup. Beat him with nymph's tears and :entropy plus :darkness pendulums.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Winter Is Coming on April 16, 2012, 03:26:26 AM
Did shards get removed from rare spins for bronze league? I've gotten four rare spins so far from that and haven't even seen a shard come up as an option yet.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: valiance on April 16, 2012, 03:28:50 AM
Dont think they have been removed. Ive gotten them on other leagues. Maybe you are just unlucky?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 16, 2012, 03:32:29 AM
Just consider the options for rare spins.  There is always the chance you will not see a shard in the spin.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: hainkarga on April 16, 2012, 08:13:00 AM
Thanks zanz for all his  interest and work. However, i hate all the shards and the new deckbuilding screen :)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Thalas on April 16, 2012, 12:03:34 PM
Thanks zanz for all his  interest and work. However, i hate all the shards and the new deckbuilding screen :)

Well I don't like some shards :cough Focus :cough freedom   But I think the new deckbuilding screen is great, because it loades much faster, though I miss the old screen too. 
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Zso_Zso on April 16, 2012, 01:37:24 PM
Did shards get removed from rare spins for bronze league? I've gotten four rare spins so far from that and haven't even seen a shard come up as an option yet.

Bad luck, they are definitely in there, I have just won a serendipity from bronze league.
Yesterday I won an upped Focus from gold league  :P 8) ;D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: haydenshark on April 16, 2012, 03:07:14 PM
im loving 1.30. i feel honored even typing on this topic :o
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Bloom on April 16, 2012, 09:50:34 PM
Yea I never have good luck with rare spins but they're definitely in there. Thanks Zanz for all your hard work! Loving 1.30 as a whole
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 17, 2012, 04:01:42 AM
Osiris flinging his scarabs at me intelligently impressed me. Him flinging a SoFo at me the turn he put it down...not so much.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: toyama on April 17, 2012, 08:29:55 AM
Whoaaaa cool  I love this game >w<  :aether :air :darkness :death :earth :entropy :fire :gravity :life :life :light :time :water :underworld :underworld :rainbow :electrum
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: BluePriest on April 17, 2012, 01:41:59 PM
Him flinging a SoFo at me the turn he put it down...not so much.
SHHH! Dont Tell Zanz!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Blues on April 17, 2012, 05:16:36 PM
With all these new shards, it almost looks as if shards were more important than creature cards...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: skyjamer on April 18, 2012, 01:43:46 AM
Supernova Nerf is too strong.  Black hole and Pest already provided strong balance against it.  The ner should be 3 Novas or 2 SuperNovas per turn before singularity to make the card useful.  1 SN or 2N is too too weak and destroys usefulness of the card
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 18, 2012, 01:47:51 AM
Supernova Nerf is too strong.  Black hole and Pest already provided strong balance against it.  The ner should be 3 Novas or 2 SuperNovas per turn before singularity to make the card useful.  1 SN or 2N is too too weak and destroys usefulness of the card
That's exactly what the nerf is. 3 novas a turn or 2 supernovas per turn creates a singularity.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: McSod on April 18, 2012, 01:49:18 AM

Quote
That's exactly what the nerf is. 3 novas a turn or 2 supernovas per turn creates a singularity.

I think he/she was sayin' the limit should be upped by one on each variant.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 18, 2012, 01:52:39 AM
Is it intentional that you can play 2 novas AND one supernova together in one turn and not generate a singularity?  If so, some speedbows could run a mix of unupped/upped novas to generate less singularities.  In practice, I'm finding that the restriction is fairly minor on the player side; it seems to hurt the AI a lot more, due to the arena decks having 12 of them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AP579 on April 18, 2012, 06:29:02 AM
Nope. Shards still are there. They just don't come up TOO often.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 18, 2012, 07:07:46 AM
Supernova Nerf is too strong.  Black hole and Pest already provided strong balance against it.  The ner should be 3 Novas or 2 SuperNovas per turn before singularity to make the card useful.  1 SN or 2N is too too weak and destroys usefulness of the card
After playing both with suppernova & nova rainbows, i can say : No.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pikachufan2164 on April 18, 2012, 07:18:22 AM
Supernova Nerf is too strong.  Black hole and Pest already provided strong balance against it.  The ner should be 3 Novas or 2 SuperNovas per turn before singularity to make the card useful.  1 SN or 2N is too too weak and destroys usefulness of the card
Being able to safely play 3 Nova / 2 Supernova each turn without Singularities appearing isn't even a nerf at all.

The 2 Nova / 1 Supernova safety zone puts them in a balanced position in the competitive PvP metagame: strong, but not so dominant that it pushes other decks out of viability.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on April 18, 2012, 05:54:26 PM
honestly, the SN nerf probably only hurts the rainbow rushes, and only by little.  I feel that more often than not, I can't even start with two SNs in my hand.

And as said above, it hurts arena decks more due to their double deck size.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: sluggy on April 19, 2012, 10:07:50 AM
have to say im well impressed with these updates.

SN nerf is long overdue, that coupled with 1 less win needed in arena is allowing me more chance at final spins. granted so far ive only had 1 card from 4 final spins (but it was a nice SOF)

the seraph looks impressive, i came up against a hand filled with em earlier and lost.

the combine shards card is super groovy also.

grats on another amazing update  :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: cosine23 on April 19, 2012, 07:25:54 PM
Thanx Zanz for the upgrade. The new shards do shuffle the stage well, the quicker arena-counter ist simply fine, and the novanerf is just well dosed - you still have the option to stack (S)N, if you think it is worth it (endgame, for example).

Great!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AP579 on April 20, 2012, 12:27:37 AM
I honestly don't like the SN nerf. Making it just not possible to play the other one seems a lot more balanced. There are little situations in which you would want to rush two SN, as you often only need 2 or 3 to power all cards in your deck. I've often lost games because of just a bit of absentmindedness when I focus on other things. It's overkill.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: McSod on April 20, 2012, 12:45:09 AM
I know it's been said to no end, but I agree 'a little bit'. I don't want to see the singularity done away with entirely, as thematically, I love the concept. But I'd definitely like to see that limit go one higher. And honestly, the unupped ones, I think are fine. Two S/Novas before a singularity is how it oughtt'a be, regardless of upped/unupped status.

Of course, this is merely my opinion.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: MatrimKK on April 20, 2012, 12:48:26 AM
Singularities are fun each SN should make one!
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on April 20, 2012, 01:07:35 AM
If you absentmindedly play two SN at once, then that's your fault, especially considering the SN image that appears next to your name after playing one.  In fact, I would think from a developer's point of view, it's all the better that you now have to pay more attention.

And 2 SNs before a singularity would effectively mean remove the nerf.  There's extremely few situations where you'll have 3 SNs in your hand to play.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: burpcow on April 20, 2012, 03:04:55 AM
Wow, winning a game in Gold right now gives more electrum than Plat.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 20, 2012, 04:38:16 AM
Probably to create incentive to not Plat farm...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AP579 on April 20, 2012, 05:28:23 AM
So then if I potentially happen to be a generally absentminded person or have to multitask, then I am then forced to forfeit more games, and it's my fault because I'm reminded by a faint outline of an SN. If you say that, might as well remove the sillhouette because we already see it on the card image and should already know.

I do mindless grinding with SNbows. It's not hard at all to miss a trick, even if you are completely aware simply because you're grinding.

Also, 1/5 chance of drawing an SN in a 30-card deck (6 SNs)= an approx. 1-2% chance of getting 3 SN, so no. Also, Nova nerf is pretty pointless...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: RRQJ on April 20, 2012, 06:57:56 AM
So then if I potentially happen to be a generally absentminded person or have to multitask, then I am then forced to forfeit more games, and it's my fault because I'm reminded by a faint outline of an SN. If you say that, might as well remove the sillhouette because we already see it on the card image and should already know.

I do mindless grinding with SNbows. It's not hard at all to miss a trick, even if you are completely aware simply because you're grinding.

Also, 1/5 chance of drawing an SN in a 30-card deck (6 SNs)= an approx. 1-2% chance of getting 3 SN, so no. Also, Nova nerf is pretty pointless...

then you'll have to forfeit more games.  if you don't like that, then don't multitask/pay more attention while playing, at least until you get used to not playing all your SNs at once.  From what it sounds like, you're just used to spamming all SNs.  Once you get used to the new SN, you'll probably be able to go back to mindless grinding.

A 1-2% chance of getting 3 SN is small, hence why I said there's extremely few situations where you'll have 3 SNs in your hand. So yes, 2 SNs before singularity effectively means remove the nerf.  If you don't believe me, see how many times you find the nova nerf to be a problem (they currently have the 2 before singularity rule).
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on April 20, 2012, 09:52:17 AM
Wow, winning a game in Gold right now gives more electrum than Plat.
Probably to create incentive to not Plat farm...
This is not done by Zanz. The rewards change dynamically depending on how many people play each league. As such, we can see plainly that Plat gets a lot more traffic than Gold right now, which is thanks to people thinking they can win a lot more in Plat thanks to the Purify buff. In truth it's a double-edged sword since Plat decks can use it too, but the AI restriction of only being able to use 6 SoSa's in a game indubitably help players.

Since Plat now only requires 2 wins in a row for a special spin, it's another huge reason there's no good incentive to play Gold. On the plus side, I'm making tons of electrum from people losing to my Plat deck  :-*
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on April 20, 2012, 01:24:14 PM
yeah, im sure as heck not playing arena for coin, just shards (upped ones, at that).  well, until i get sick of the fun denial decks out there (ghostal, any deck with 12 steals, or etc), it feels more like 'work for frustration' than 'play for fun' after a few matches.  the reduced number of consecutive wins helps, otherwise i would have stopped days ago.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: FlareGlutox on April 20, 2012, 01:26:51 PM
yeah, im sure as heck not playing arena for coin, just shards (upped ones, at that).  well, until i get sick of the fun denial decks out there (ghostal, any deck with 12 steals, or etc), it feels more like 'work for frustration' than 'play for fun' after a few matches.  the reduced number of consecutive wins helps, otherwise i would have stopped days ago.
This ^
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Chapuz on April 20, 2012, 02:47:30 PM
Is there a complete list of AI decks and behavior changes for 1.30?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 20, 2012, 04:39:37 PM
i am to blame on the ghostmare in plat lol, its been there for 3 days and already had 61 matches, 51 of them my deck won o.O so much electrum xD
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on April 20, 2012, 05:01:15 PM
so do you enjoy pissing people off, or just getting electrum from doing so?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 20, 2012, 08:40:55 PM
so do you enjoy pissing people off, or just getting electrum from doing so?

mostly for the electrum, i knew people were gonna farm plat more now that you only need 2 victories for the special spin
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on April 20, 2012, 09:25:31 PM
ah, k.  out of curiosity, how much have you gotten, roughly?
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 20, 2012, 11:16:00 PM
Wow, winning a game in Gold right now gives more electrum than Plat.
Probably to create incentive to not Plat farm...
This is not done by Zanz. The rewards change dynamically depending on how many people play each league. As such, we can see plainly that Plat gets a lot more traffic than Gold right now, which is thanks to people thinking they can win a lot more in Plat thanks to the Purify buff. In truth it's a double-edged sword since Plat decks can use it too, but the AI restriction of only being able to use 6 SoSa's in a game indubitably help players.

Since Plat now only requires 2 wins in a row for a special spin, it's another huge reason there's no good incentive to play Gold. On the plus side, I'm making tons of electrum from people losing to my Plat deck  :-*
That actually makes me look forward to finally going into plat instead of staying in Gold to make decks.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 20, 2012, 11:23:20 PM
ah, k.  out of curiosity, how much have you gotten, roughly?

nearly 1K electrum more or less but probably less
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on April 20, 2012, 11:58:48 PM
so less than the value of a single upped card that could have been won by someone if you hadnt squashed their efforts. personally i dont see 1k as being worth being a dink by putting up a frustration deck, but whatever floats your boat, i suppose.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Higurashi on April 21, 2012, 12:06:05 AM
For contrast's sake, I've made 6k with two top 10 decks so far (#2 being the best). I'm saving the electrum for once.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 21, 2012, 01:01:52 AM
so less than the value of a single upped card that could have been won by someone if you hadnt squashed their efforts. personally i dont see 1k as being worth being a dink by putting up a frustration deck, but whatever floats your boat, i suppose.

I completely understand him, though. I've been trying to put up creative decks in Platinum, but even those would get only 1-2 "thumbs ups" every 20 wins - and that's all the wins it'd get before getting kicked out. Putting up a known strong deck, such as mono-Darkness, will net you 40-60 wins on average, and as such, you still make more.

Short version: People need to stop downvoting decks merely for being beaten by them.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 21, 2012, 01:50:50 AM
so less than the value of a single upped card that could have been won by someone if you hadnt squashed their efforts. personally i dont see 1k as being worth being a dink by putting up a frustration deck, but whatever floats your boat, i suppose.

I completely understand him, though. I've been trying to put up creative decks in Platinum, but even those would get only 1-2 "thumbs ups" every 20 wins - and that's all the wins it'd get before getting kicked out. Putting up a known strong deck, such as mono-Darkness, will net you 40-60 wins on average, and as such, you still make more.

Short version: People need to stop downvoting decks merely for being beaten by them.

I agree. And because of that, i have put down my ghostmare and put an awesome adrenaline-bow just for fun, although it wont win nearly as much
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: sammybrahh on April 21, 2012, 02:41:35 AM
so less than the value of a single upped card that could have been won by someone if you hadnt squashed their efforts. personally i dont see 1k as being worth being a dink by putting up a frustration deck, but whatever floats your boat, i suppose.

I completely understand him, though. I've been trying to put up creative decks in Platinum, but even those would get only 1-2 "thumbs ups" every 20 wins - and that's all the wins it'd get before getting kicked out. Putting up a known strong deck, such as mono-Darkness, will net you 40-60 wins on average, and as such, you still make more.

Short version: People need to stop downvoting decks merely for being beaten by them.

Agreed. People often seem to automatically choose the 'thumbs down' when they are beaten, ignoring the fact that a deck may have been cleverly and uniquely constructed. Perhaps the reward for thumbs up should be lessened so that people who are given thumbs down repeatedly miss out on less electrum/chance to rise up the leaderboard. I personally keep making decks with variety, but they are often voted down anyway, so it becomes very difficult to gain rating.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 21, 2012, 02:44:18 AM
so less than the value of a single upped card that could have been won by someone if you hadnt squashed their efforts. personally i dont see 1k as being worth being a dink by putting up a frustration deck, but whatever floats your boat, i suppose.

I completely understand him, though. I've been trying to put up creative decks in Platinum, but even those would get only 1-2 "thumbs ups" every 20 wins - and that's all the wins it'd get before getting kicked out. Putting up a known strong deck, such as mono-Darkness, will net you 40-60 wins on average, and as such, you still make more.

Short version: People need to stop downvoting decks merely for being beaten by them.

Agreed. People often seem to automatically choose the 'thumbs down' when they are beaten, ignoring the fact that a deck may have been cleverly and uniquely constructed. Perhaps the reward for thumbs up should be lessened so that people who are given thumbs down repeatedly miss out on less electrum/chance to rise up the leaderboard. I personally keep making decks with variety, but they are often voted down anyway, so it becomes very difficult to gain rating.

The problem with that is when players lose to those decks that lack creativity.  Like Ghostmare.  In your suggestion, people would be more inclined to give it a thumbs up despite it deserving the opposite.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Jenkar on April 21, 2012, 02:40:04 PM
so do you enjoy pissing people off
I immensely do. In fact, you jjust gave me a reason to build ghostmares & monodark & other annoying stuff, including SoB deckouter :D
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: moomoose on April 21, 2012, 02:48:33 PM
i've already gotten tired of the grind, though, and stopped, so it wont be me you're annoying.  but you enjoy your negative kharma (should you believe in such a divine mechanic)
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pervepic on April 21, 2012, 03:30:43 PM
I found this thumbs up and down thing rather useless, because it doesn't reflect decks at all. And I'm not interested in evaluating decks anyway, but maybe somebody is.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 21, 2012, 10:24:02 PM
I thumbs up decks that I don't see every other match.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Sqantic Pilau on April 24, 2012, 04:06:37 AM
This thumbs up/down is an excellent idea but it is clearly being mis-used by many (most ?) players.
I have (and I don't think I'm alone in this ) put very novel decks into the arena only to be rewarded by a 20% "thumbs up" ratio.
I've also put up boing old decks (like GoTP/nightmare) and had a similar or better thumbs up ratio.
It seems many players react emotionally to a loss rather than making a judgement about the originality of the deck.
For example never put dune scorpions into a deck if you want lots of "ups".
Unfortunatly other than just asking I'm not sure how you can stop arena players acting this way.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: darkrobe on April 24, 2012, 04:32:24 AM
I only vote thumbs up for decks that were fun to play against. Considering how un-fun it is to lose, that generally means that most decks get a thumbs down from me. Im sure most players feel the same.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 24, 2012, 04:35:00 AM
I only vote thumbs up for decks that were fun to play against. Considering how un-fun it is to lose, that generally means that most decks get a thumbs down from me. Im sure most players feel the same.

So you never even read the description of the rating screen? The 'thumbs down' is saying the deck is 'boring and uninspired'. Not 'boohoo it made me lose'.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 24, 2012, 04:37:06 AM
I'll say how I rank again. Mono fire/aether/entropy/darkness/death is almost an auto thumbs down since it's uncreative. Same goes for oraclebows. Now if I see a deck with strategies like adrenapuffer or life rush with deflag, then I'll thumbs it up.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: darkrobe on April 24, 2012, 04:39:11 AM
A deck I lose to after 16 turns of shard of sacrifice is boring and uninspired and im going to give it a thumbs down. If its a crazy mutant serendipidy deck that i was neck and neck with until the end until it gets a super lucky mutant which beats me by 1 HP, it gets a thumbs up. The first is boring to lose to, the second is fun to lose to. Thats how i differentiate thumbs up versus thumbs down.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: vrt on April 24, 2012, 04:42:33 AM
A deck I lose to after 16 turns of shard of sacrifice is boring and uninspired and im going to give it a thumbs down. If its a crazy mutant serendipidy deck that i was neck and neck with until the end until it gets a super lucky mutant which beats me by 1 HP, it gets a thumbs up. The first is boring to lose to, the second is fun to lose to. Thats how i differentiate thumbs up versus thumbs down.
Considering how un-fun it is to lose, that generally means that most decks get a thumbs down from me. Im sure most players feel the same.

You didn't quite say that, did you? :B



Honestly, I wish the thumbs-down button would take like 3 seconds to become available.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: darkrobe on April 24, 2012, 04:44:56 AM
They key word in there was "most". I still give thumbs up to some decks. My bar is just a little higher than most in that the deck needs to be fun to play against, not simply "creative".

edit: the fun-ness of play needs to outweigh the un-fun of losing.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: furballdn on April 24, 2012, 04:45:50 AM
A deck I lose to after 16 turns of shard of sacrifice is boring and uninspired and im going to give it a thumbs down. If its a crazy mutant serendipidy deck that i was neck and neck with until the end until it gets a super lucky mutant which beats me by 1 HP, it gets a thumbs up. The first is boring to lose to, the second is fun to lose to. Thats how i differentiate thumbs up versus thumbs down.
Considering how un-fun it is to lose, that generally means that most decks get a thumbs down from me. Im sure most players feel the same.

You didn't quite say that, did you? :B



Honestly, I wish the thumbs-down button would take like 3 seconds to become available.
Suddenly, everyone gets thumbs up for every match.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: pervepic on April 24, 2012, 12:14:57 PM
Anyway, thumbs thing is controversial, because good and winning decks are usually those where opponents can have less fun. But this discussion seems slighly out of the subject already.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 24, 2012, 12:32:05 PM
Anyway, thumbs thing is controversial, because good and winning decks are usually those where opponents can have less fun. But this discussion seems slighly out of the subject already.

i dont even know why is this thread still unlocked lol we're not even talking about the changes in 1.30 at all
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: AP579 on April 25, 2012, 12:39:39 AM
I found out FGs still steal HGs over Dials. They'll Destroy Dials first, but not for steal. That's what I've seen...
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: Poker Alho on April 25, 2012, 07:43:23 AM
I found out FGs still steal HGs over Dials. They'll Destroy Dials first, but not for steal. That's what I've seen...

wich means gods like hecate and decay havent changed... nice
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: teffy on April 25, 2012, 08:41:37 PM
A secret change I noticed (probably 1.30):
Masscolder and Shattari are not mentioned as artists anymore (Spore), but Cyrotube is on login page.
Cards for Cyrotube: Seraph and Shard Golem
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on April 26, 2012, 09:09:10 AM
Anyway, thumbs thing is controversial, because good and winning decks are usually those where opponents can have less fun. But this discussion seems slighly out of the subject already.

Sometimes I'll thumbs up a deck just for not being what I expected.  I've just played against a deck I thought I'd hate from the splash screen - the deckbuilder had got a Reverse Time from the Oracle, so I was naturally expecting a Ghostmare.  Instead I got a mono Time.  It wasn't a particularly inspired deck - all Ghost of the Pasts and Silurian Dragons, but it wasn't Ghostmare, so I gave it a thumbs up.
Title: Re: Elements 1.30
Post by: salox on May 03, 2012, 12:53:14 AM
it was not mentioned that osiris now has SoFo

I just faced him and lost :(
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