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Offline Xenocidius

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443525#msg443525
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 07:07:35 AM »
Not to be a complete killjoy here, but it's hard having to follow two different discussions about the same card simultaneously in two different locations.  Therefore I would suggest comments specifically regarding Shard of Focus and its mechanics, balancing issues, etc. being directed to the thread posted for the card itself here:  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35191.0/topicseen.html
True, but then there won't really be any discussion on this topic whatsoever.
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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443537#msg443537
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 08:01:19 AM »
Shard of Focus seems too powerful to me.  It destroys 4 permanents over 4 turns at minimal cost.  In addition, if you combo it with cards like Aflatoxin, you can damage it and reuse it.  Shard of Focus actually combos extremely well with Grey Nymph, of all things :p  (unless the hp refers to max hp of the shard and not current hp, in which case my combo doesn't work)  Even just as a delayed Earthquake/Quicksand, this would be sick, and it should get a cost increase in part because of that.  Play it turn one and bump their towers off as they get them.  This would also combo extremely well with eternity, allowing unlimited use.  Do we really want -every- deck to be scared of playing all their towers turn 1, just because someone might have this card?
 
I can understand the need for permanent removal that is accessible to all elements, but this is too strong.  Perhaps if it only destroyed one or two permanents, and had a similar one turn delay like it does now?  0/10, +5hp and destroy a permanent, die at 0/20 and give a black hole?  I do like the idea of making it a creature, because that gives more ways of countering it, like lobotomy or damage or basilisk blood or whatever.

Another thing that could be done is to make Shard of Focus destroy opponent's permanents, but at random, so you might just destroy pillars, but you can still at least have a chance to destroy their shields and other important things.  That would probably require a rename, though, as that isn't particularly fitting with 'focus', but it would make for a more balanced card, although it still suffers from the pillar destroying problem at the beginning of the game, with that low other cost.

If random is unappealing, it could work off casting cost, and destroy the highest cost opponent's (nonpillar/pend, to avoid overshadowing earthquake) permanent each turn for a few turns, like 2.  That way, it would be predictable, and somewhat counterable (playing a graveyard to save your skull shield, etc)  In case of ties, the shard's owner would get the choice (or it could be random) and it still couldn't touch PAed cards.  I actually like this one the best, I think; make it destroy 1-2 nonpillar permanents, maybe +1 if your mark is earth, and have it pick the most expensive targetable nonpillar permanent your opponent has.  This gives it use without turning it into an overpowered colourless earthquake/pulverizer, and makes it harder to combo with eternity.  (you still could, but you'd have to activate eternity more often to keep it going than if it destroyed 4 permanents, and it would be more quanta-intensive than pulverizer)

If you wanted to keep people from using eternity on it, a counter could be that if shard of focus were rewound, it would turn into a random shard (or permanent) kind of like skeleton does now for creatures.  That has no thematic justification, but it would add an extra dimension to the card, though it increases the complexity, which is bad, especially as everything I've suggested already adds to its complexity.

The aether shard seems balanced to me.  It requires you to have a lot of them to get a useful effect, but if you do have a lot of them out, it's very strong.  If someone plays one or two of them, you won't even notice, but if they get to three, you're going to feel the pain, as being capped at 10(8) quanta will make a very appreciable game difference to most decks.  With two, you'd be at ~18 for a cap (depending on how rounding is handled; I'm assuming 75-37-18, but you could round up and go 75-38-19) and that's enough to affect a few decks, but not too many.  The math with 75 happens to work just right (possibly zanz-intended!) such that you need four of these to get them to the minimum of 8. (or 3 to get them to 10, regardless of whether you round up or down in both cases) 

Sorry if this is somewhat disjointed, I kind of added stuff to the middle as I went along :p  Short version; earth shard OP, aether shard is about right.

Offline rowcla

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443539#msg443539
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 08:06:34 AM »
Goodness me, why has noone suggested grav pulls yet! the 10 hp every turn is likely to be enough for it to survive, and of course it prevents it from being turned into a black hole, furthermore you can even use armagios to redirect the grav pull if its about to die

You know i reckon one of things that should be done with SoF is that it should have a negative effect when it gets to 50 hp...
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Offline jacker

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443564#msg443564
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 12:06:24 PM »
I think that if the aether shard take the lead, that would be the end for monodecks, and everyone will start using only rainbow.

The gravity one...OP surely...i understand is a permanent for turn, but for merely 3 random quanta is sick

Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443567#msg443567
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 12:29:57 PM »
I'd like these to be in the trainer or beta, so we can test a bit. But as I said in the other thread, I don't like this shard one bit. :/
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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443591#msg443591
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2011, 02:48:08 PM »
can't wait for shard of focus, looks great!
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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443596#msg443596
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2011, 03:46:30 PM »
Seems like SoF would be terribly op in the Arena.

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443602#msg443602
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2011, 04:39:31 PM »
Seems like SoF would be terribly op in the Arena.
+1

It really needs nerfing before it's put into the game.

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443618#msg443618
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2011, 06:36:01 PM »
I am happy seeing Zanz coming back.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

For SoF: why "destroy permanent"? I just think for other effect that suit for Gravity such as "make permanent disappear for 2 turns".
Destroying permanent is so evil i think..

But, overall, for other effect for SoF, i just like it...  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Offline jmdt

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443625#msg443625
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 07:03:17 PM »
The aether shard is nice.  I don't particularly like the Gravity shard though.  I don't mind colorless PC, but the hp growth mechanic seems best suited for something else.  Also BH?  BH is only situationally helpful to :gravity.  Adding 3-5 :gravity quanta and making a limit on the uses of PC would be a nice step

I'd like to see :gravity get some unupped help in this patch.  Unupped merc, oty and charger are all underpowered and could use some love.

Also is there any chance we will see some nerf to nova and/or supernova in this patch?

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443640#msg443640
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 08:11:50 PM »
I am happy seeing Zanz coming back.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

^^ This. I've been waiting, just barely paying attention (damn you, Dungeons of Dredmor!), for either WoE to restart or Zanz to come back, and I was really hoping it would be the latter. :)
If something happens and you think it deserves my attention, feel free to PM me. Other than that, I'm probably here if you want to shoot the breeze.

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Re: Elements 1.30 http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35190.msg443649#msg443649
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2011, 08:36:07 PM »
Hooray for new revealings!  :D
Shard of Conscience I'm fine with, as it's been around for a few months.
SoF, though, doesn't seem like a shard - not because it's a creature, but because it has nothing to do with the mark making a difference in its ability. The Mark is a major theme that ties shards to their respective elements. My suggestions are
1. Make the 'turning into a black hole' part a passive that can happen only if the mark is :gravity (and at some Hp amount).
2. Have it only gain the 10 Hp if the mark is :gravity.

I like #2 better than 1 because it adds the mark aspect, and also puts a limit on the destruction; also removes overshadowing of Pulverizer.
Having a mark requirement for Hp also adds to the 'focus' theme.
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