Elements 1.29

[BluePriest]

I've been making ridiculous electrum with Archangels in RoL/Hope for about a year, and you never need 75 .
It's not a deck that suffers from a cap since I think it works just as well with Angels, and even with Dragons you very rarely need that much. 50 would be a bit bothersome, but 75 gives you 5 Dragons. Not even necessary. You just have to think a little before playing all your awesome Dragons early, roar.

The few decks that suffer slightly from a cap of 75 are Fractal Dragon decks that have no Blitz, which is something you've only seen prominently in War so far. By Team Aether. And that's just slightly.

Something that's completely killed off is Sudden Killer, but that's just a PvE deck, and a pretty mediocre one.

yeah, i am ok with the cap of 75, its a little bothersome, but manageable. i was explaining why 50 was really bad.  is it still mark dependant?  ive been grinding the regular version while its still easy and havent gone back to the beta,

So its a fractal nerf as well? Another card that many people agree needs nerfed. Meanwhile, once again, FG's shouldnt be considered.
RoL hope, just makes you have to wait a little before playing ALL of the dragons. You can still get full use out of fractal, it will just take a turn or 2 more.

[russianspy1234]

I've been making ridiculous electrum with Archangels in RoL/Hope for about a year, and you never need 75 .
It's not a deck that suffers from a cap since I think it works just as well with Angels, and even with Dragons you very rarely need that much. 50 would be a bit bothersome, but 75 gives you 5 Dragons. Not even necessary. You just have to think a little before playing all your awesome Dragons early, roar.

The few decks that suffer slightly from a cap of 75 are Fractal Dragon decks that have no Blitz, which is something you've only seen prominently in War so far. By Team Aether. And that's just slightly.

Something that's completely killed off is Sudden Killer, but that's just a PvE deck, and a pretty mediocre one.

yeah, i am ok with the cap of 75, its a little bothersome, but manageable. i was explaining why 50 was really bad.  is it still mark dependant?  ive been grinding the regular version while its still easy and havent gone back to the beta,

So its a fractal nerf as well? Another card that many people agree needs nerfed. Meanwhile, once again, FG's shouldnt be considered.
RoL hope, just makes you have to wait a little before playing ALL of the dragons. You can still get full use out of fractal, it will just take a turn or 2 more.

again, except against FGs, or for that matter PVP players, with miracle.

[ddevans96]

I almost always play my dragons ASAP and wait for the miracles to run out, and decking out is never a problem unless I would have anyways due to my draw. So no, it isn't a huge issue.

I'd be much more concerned about the nerfs to ice bolt and drain life.

[bucky1andonly]

Decks that use ice bolts to kill are LOL.
The only deck that uses siphons to kill is what, pestal?  Otherwise they are used for CC.
So neither card is being affected much, one deck being hurt only slightly (pestal) is not significant enough.

A cap of 75 means there is no change in the way people play which defeats the purpose of introducing a quanta cap.
A cap of 50 means you may need to rethink your deck a bit if you absolutely require more than 50 quanta at any one time. 
So there are 2 main decks that use more than 50 quanta, rol/hope and firestall.  There are better FG grinders, and making electrum is easy because of the arena, so the newb factor of rol/hope is an irrelevant point.  Like what was mentioned about calculating damage, that only happens against a few fgs anyway, so the NEED to fractal dragons and to play a full hand all at once is completely unnecessary.  You can have 2 dragons in play, and play 5 more (unupped obviously, or only 4 upped) for a final blow.  Now firestall, the deck everyone complains about.  No one likes playing against it in pvp, or in the arena.  Aside from the complaints about it, any good firestall uses fahrenheit, and that can easily reduce your opponents hp to 50-60 hp, and what does that mean?  With 30 quanta,  you only need 4 fire bolts, which might not kill, but then your fahrenheit can deal the final hit that turn.

50 cap is needed, it will change up the way some decks are played, which is good, and the fact that people are QQ'ing so much about how much it will hurt firestall is stupid, those same people will complain if they encounter a firestall deck in the arena.

Conclusion, 75 quanta cap changes nothing, so might as well not even have a cap then.  But 50 quanta cap nerfs firestall, BUT NOT EVEN THAT MUCH, and it does desperately need a bit of nerfing anyway. 

[Zaealix]

Strange as it might sound, I slightly feel that this actuall 'buffs' them in a sence, as their much more popular cousin, Fire Bolt, is now held to a certain amount of damage. Drain Life and Ice Bolt Respectively are more 'utility' spells, that is, they have support effects that are supposed to compensate for their reduced destructive power. The Cap, effectivly limits how much better Fire bolt can be than the other two spells, for without the cap, a 100 quanta Fire bolt hit for 33 damage. Drain Life is 'better' for it's defensive effect of healing you for as much damage as it does, but the secondary limiter of not being able to take more life than the target has means that at higher quanta levels, that healing is useless unless used directly on another elemental. Ice Bolt just got the short end of the stick, with increased probabality that seemed to generally only need 1 or 2 more 'attacks' to garuntee a freeze, not withstanding a beat the odds occurance.

[ddevans96]

Going from relatively weak to very weak is different from this minuscule nerf to firestall. And since ice bolt and drain life are affected much more than firestall, this is most definitely not a buff to them in any way.

[moomoose]

alterations can always be made later if icebolt or drain life need a lift- but considering their additional utility, i dont think it is such a big deal.

[Elite arbiter]

Ice bolt probably not, since it works as damage and a Freeze which can be used on a weapon. Even a weapon that isn't there yet, it'll be frozen when it comes out. And stopping a CCYB's Pulvy or Eternity for 3 crucial turns can make or break a game.

Drain Life though probably needs a small buff in its current state, albeit not a overall buff. Perhaps it could also reduce Max Life by half of the damage it deals, giving it synergy with the Shard of Void. Although this might be unneeded, or perhaps better utilized in a different pump spell.

[silux]

Max cost of a card 14(phase dragon)*8= 112>75
75//8=9
So with a 75quanta cap you cannot empty your full filled fractal hand in one go if you have cards that cost more than 9.
So stop dragon fractal.
This is actually a little nerf to:
Dragons
Fractal
Firebolt
Drain Bolt
Rustler
Ice bolt

And a minor buff to
Nightmare
Devourer


I don't like a nerf campaign, as i will use less powerful cards.
It's like battling with wooden swords!
Shards shouldn't have so little stats!I'd rather pack a upped Short sword(3atk 1 cost), than a shard that heals me for 3 and cost 3.

[bucky1andonly]

Max cost of a card 14(phase dragon)*8= 112>75
75//8=9
So with a 75quanta cap you cannot empty your full filled fractal hand in one go if you have cards that cost more than 9.
So stop dragon fractal.
This is actually a little nerf to:
Dragons
Fractal
Firebolt
Drain Bolt
Rustler
Ice bolt

And a minor buff to
Nightmare
Devourer


I don't like a nerf campaign, as i will use less powerful cards.
It's like battling with wooden swords!
Shards shouldn't have so little stats!I'd rather pack a upped Short sword(3atk 1 cost), than a shard that heals me for 3 and cost 3.

1) You can't fractal phase dragons, no matter how hard you try.
2) Fractal + dragons is really slow and mainly used in rol/hope which has been explained previously that you don't need to play 8 dragons all at once.
3) WTF does rustler have to do with anything?  Do you seriously need 150 life quanta all at once?
4)

I don't like a nerf campaign, as i will use less powerful cards.

I fail to see the problem with people using other cards than firestall cards.

[dragonsdemesne]

I fail to see the problem with people using other cards than firestall cards.

I do!  It means less EMs for me when I play vs the arena if people aren't using crappy firestalls there.

But regarding the quanta cap, like bucky has said (about a hundred times ) it will impact the game very little.  Unless your deck has one of a very few cards, having more than 75, or even 50 quanta, does not matter; the cap might as well be infinite.

Fire Lance, Ice Lance, Siphon Life, Granite Skin, Fahrenheit, Dissipation Shield/Field... I think that's about it that are are affected directly.  There are a few other specific decks that are affected indirectly, like anything with Fractal and expensive creatures.

On the positive side, a quanta cap will hopefully discourage people from playing RoL/Hope to farm FGs and force them to find another FG farmer.  A lot of people on the forums are of the mistaken impression that it's the best, but there's quite a few that are better, at least when you consider upgraded decks.

I've mentioned some of this in the thread before most likely, but it's probably buried way back somewhere.  Unless Zanzarino has plans to make the quanta cap more meaningful in the game, it doesn't really accomplish anything.  Mind you, it doesn't really hurt the game either, so I'm neutral towards the change.  I'm much more excited about the new shards coming, and to a lesser degree the rebalancing for cremation/explosion/schrodinger's cat.

[bogtro]

[00:04:53] zanzarino: Ok, I am going to go and clean up the new version and put it online - lurking now