Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

News and Announcements => Patch Notes and Development News => Topic started by: chriskang on December 18, 2009, 04:13:32 pm

Title: AI improvements
Post by: chriskang on December 18, 2009, 04:13:32 pm
As you know, Zanzarino allowed me to make some changes to the real game code.
As I don't want to disturb his work, I asked him to send me just one single function at a time, on which I'm going to work for a few days before I send it back to him.
My first request was the "autotarget" function and I'm currently working on it.
If you're not aware of it, this function is part of the AI mechanics: that's where the computer chooses the targets for its spells and its creature's abilities. More explanations here:
http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/10 (http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/10)
(see chapter 5: "Finding valuable targets: Function Autotarget")

I already corrected a few bugs (like the computer hurting its own death/darkness creatures with "holy light") and I'm now trying to improve the evaluation of creature's score.
I made some changes to correct the most common mistakes but I'll need some help with more tricky situations.
Here's what I want from you: give me examples of cases where the computer has several choices for the target of its skill and, in your opinion, does the wrong choice.
I'll start with a few examples (those are already corrected) :
* when you have a queen and a firefly in play, the computer uses sniper on the firefly (it would be much wiser to target to queen)
* when (you have a 0/5 Oty) and (the computer has a 0/5 Oty and an Elite Skeleton), it won't devour its own skel to take advantage over your Oty

Go on game experts, give me more situations where the targeting can be improved.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bobcamel on December 18, 2009, 04:20:49 pm
Using Momentum on general high statsum creatures instead of high attack creatures. You must have seen Momentumed Armagios. As well as Plate/HevE Armor - Targets strongest creatures instead of Otys/Brittle attackers.

Also, stacking multiple Infections on one creature, stacking all Blessings/Armors/Buffs on one creature instead of diversifying, Blessing a Dragon not Pegasus (Miracle) and so on.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 18, 2009, 04:23:02 pm
Biggest fail of AI in my opinion is when he/she uses all his/her Explosions/Steals/Pulverizer to try take down a Bone Wall.

In other news.. I don't know how you are doing the targeting but I've always thought it would be cool if AI did random things. Like 90% of time it does what "makes sense" but 10% of time it does something completely random. That would make it more like a human opponent because you wouldn't be able to always guess what it's going to do next. Is something like that possible?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Evil Hamster on December 18, 2009, 04:57:12 pm
Biggest fail of AI in my opinion is when he/she uses all his/her Explosions/Steals/Pulverizer to try take down a Bone Wall.
Haha yes, make Rainbow even MORE difficult :P

Also, stacking multiple Infections on one creature, stacking all Blessings/Armors/Buffs on one creature instead of diversifying, Blessing a Dragon not Pegasus (Miracle) and so on.
Sometimes it's good to stack infections to kill a creature faster. It's situational though, so would require more than an if/then to figure it out.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: chriskang on December 18, 2009, 05:08:33 pm
Using Momentum on general high statsum creatures instead of high attack creatures. You must have seen Momentumed Armagios.
It's not that easy. If player has an Oty, computer should not cast momentum on its own Ruby Dragon (cause the dragon is going to be devoured on next turn and the momentum will be lost). There's probably some place for improvement here but the "check atk only" rule is not right IMO.

As well as Plate/HevE Armor - Targets strongest creatures instead of Otys/Brittle attackers.
That's right. Added to my TODO list.

Also, stacking multiple Infections on one creature,
EH replied to that. I'll try to see what I can do.

stacking all Blessings/Armors/Buffs on one creature instead of diversifying,
Again I disagree. Stacking buffs on a creature is a good thing most of the time. That's precisely the behavior that you're expecting from the computer when it plays a TU deck.

Blessing a Dragon not Pegasus (Miracle) and so on.
This one is right. Dive should be taken into account.

Biggest fail of AI in my opinion is when he/she uses all his/her Explosions/Steals/Pulverizer to try take down a Bone Wall.
Added to my TODO list.

In other news.. I don't know how you are doing the targeting but I've always thought it would be cool if AI did random things. Like 90% of time it does what "makes sense" but 10% of time it does something completely random. That would make it more like a human opponent because you wouldn't be able to always guess what it's going to do next. Is something like that possible?
It's certainly possible. There's already some randomness in the final decision actually. But it's limited to "I do as expected" or "I cancel my action". When you were talking about "completely random", I guess you were thinking about "still acting but targeting another location than the most valuable", right?
I can do that. It would even be a good way to tone the difficulty down a bit. If Zanzarino nerfs Sundial and I make the AI stronger, there's a risk that the game becomes too hard for casual gamers.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on December 18, 2009, 06:12:51 pm
Otyugh should target the most dangerous creature to its life, which is not always the highest attack/defense creature.
I consider lobotomy the most dangerous, then infecting stuff, otyughs with close defense come then.

Maybe this is too much for the single function approach, but, what about thinking one step ahead by the enemy's side?
This is definitely something for higher difficulty.

Some simpler rules:
It is not a problem if you infect a creature multiple times, but don't infect it if it would die anyway (infections>current defense).
Don't play spark when hourglass is in effect, unless you got more scavengers/bone walls than the enemy.
Don't play dive while hourglass/phase shield/bonewall is in effect.
When counting attack, dive creature attacks worth double (if the enemy has air)
Growing creature attack/defenses should be calculated higher, probably 1-2 turns ahead.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 18, 2009, 06:19:56 pm
In other news.. I don't know how you are doing the targeting but I've always thought it would be cool if AI did random things. Like 90% of time it does what "makes sense" but 10% of time it does something completely random. That would make it more like a human opponent because you wouldn't be able to always guess what it's going to do next. Is something like that possible?
It's certainly possible. There's already some randomness in the final decision actually. But it's limited to "I do as expected" or "I cancel my action". When you were talking about "completely random", I guess you were thinking about "still acting but targeting another location than the most valuable", right?
I can do that. It would even be a good way to tone the difficulty down a bit. If Zanzarino nerfs Sundial and I make the AI stronger, there's a risk that the game becomes too hard for casual gamers.
Yes, that. Something like this:

When the script list the targets in priority order, then it just randomly chooses one instead of going for the top priority target automatically.

65% chance of priority target 1
20% chance of priority target 2 (if available)
10% chance of priority target 3 (if available)
5% chance of doing nothing

Of course I pulled those numbers out of my ass but you get the idea.

Lets talk about the situation right now. Lets say I'm fighting a False God and  have only 1 HP left. He has 200+ damage on the table, doesn't have a weapon and has used all his weapon cards. This False God does however have Explosion in his hand.

Now if I play Sundial I know for a FACT that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY of him killing me during the next 2 turns because I have also other higher priority permanents on the table. AI will target those higher every single time.

But if AI made his decisions randomly like I suggested earlier, he might skip those higher priority targets, take out the Sundial and kill me.

Having this element of unpredictability would make the game more fun.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on December 18, 2009, 06:28:18 pm
Couldn't the AI (at least on false god level) find out that it can kill you in one step if it picks the right target?
It just have to try x times (the number of targets) and play the whole routine 'in head'.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Demagog on December 18, 2009, 07:55:17 pm
If you make it so they target weapons more often, small rainbows are screwed. Eternity will be useless. A lot of people are going to need to remake their rainbow decks :-/
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 18, 2009, 08:30:43 pm
Of course, there's the relevant Wiki page (http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/Potential_AI_Improvements) to check.


Realistically, the various skills should be given a range of targeting values (beyond just "+3 value if skill exists".)  Things like bioluminescence should be worth +0 (no more targeting Fireflys over FFQs), photosynthesis and gravity pull would be around +1,  mutate and other potentially fail abilities along with momentum (which is already only great on a decent attacker) would be +2, most generally-useful abilities would be +3, and real game-changers like Queen, Destroy, Steal, Reverse Time, Sniper, and Devour would be +4.

I also third SG's suggestoin about randomness.

Also, in general, it would actually improve the AI's play quite a bit if, at the start of each turn, it looked through it's hand for free cards and played them first, then went through and played costed cards in order from most to least expensive.  That way, Graviton would get an Otyugh (and control of the board) on turn 1 instead of turn 4 or 5 after it's used all of it's Fire Masters. 

There are obviously circumstances when that isn't the case, but I think it would help.  At the very least, it should play all pillars first before it goes back and plays any other cards.  :)

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bobcamel on December 18, 2009, 09:57:20 pm
Then... like this

If no PU/TU in deck, diversify buff targets. If this is possible to code, that is...
If creature has 10+ HP and/or HP>ATK, don't Armor
If poison count on creature = creature HP, don't infect it anymore
When Momentum, play it on a creature with 4+ attack
Really check for buffs if there is a playable PU/TU in hand and play them on your strongest creature, then PU/TU. Not before.
Use Photosynthesis multiple times until 12 Light quanta is reached, not once per turn per Rust/Leaf Dragon!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Terroking on December 18, 2009, 11:19:40 pm
also just wanted to say that the AI will target higher attack creatures over ones that deal more damage.

for example I play a have 9 life quanta, and play a frog, adrenaline it, then use an upped cockatrice. the frog's damage dealt at the end of the turn will be 12, and the cockatrice 5, but the frog is a lower-priority target (Statuses don't count as skills for the +3 apparently). Of course this is with adrenaline, which isn't out yet, but i'm assuming that the better AI will come out with the new cards.

Like the randomness and the suggestion about skill priority. also something needs to be said about the AI decking itself (as rainbow).

EDIT: also wasting quant to play more eclipses/nightfalls or playing it when they have no creatures and the enemy does
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Evil Hamster on December 19, 2009, 01:16:43 am
It is not a problem if you infect a creature multiple times, but don't infect it if it would die anyway (infections>current defense).
That's actually a good idea- and should be a simple check.

It wouldn't be perfect: creature with 5 HP and 3 infection would still be targeted, wasting it, but still an improvement. Also a simple enough check that it wouldn't slow down the game at all.

I just hope the AI doesn't grow so complex that it slows down the game while it's thinking. AS isn't particularly fast programming language and one of the strong points of this game is the quickness of most matches.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on December 19, 2009, 08:01:53 am
I say give pillars/towers lowest priority over everything, so if there's a sundial on the field, the AI targets the dial instead of the towers you played first.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Spielkind on December 19, 2009, 08:30:11 am
my game against fire queen: shes playing with a lot of airquanta eagls eye... i have 2 otys with 0/5 and 3/5...
first sniper 0/5 and 3/2... but there are NO other creatures and sundial in play, so my 3/2 cant attack... but firequeen shoot on 3/2... so my 0/5 oty already has enough def to devour a skelett and so on... i think, its better when ai can think about the relevance, better to slow down the other one too, because so i get one round more für one of them... with 3/2 and 0/2 theres in this round not realy a chance... i think  8)

but more funny, i think, is when FQ draws a flying weapon, she plays! so, as i had an oty with 7 deff and an eagls eye self... she plays her eaglseye with flying weapon... without snipering... so next round, i devour this flying eagl... not that much intelligent  ;)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on December 19, 2009, 02:34:02 pm
Also don't use dive if your attack strength is 0 :)
In a heavy mutation battle i won by this quirk.
The enemy wasted quanta on diving a 0/4 flying egg.

Also, it seems the AI doesn't consider that after using a wounding ability (like owl's eye) it can use devour.
Many times I could slip in pests when an Oty has 0/2, the enemy hits my pest to 0/1, the Oty doesn't grab the snack.
And of course next round my Pest is already underground.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 19, 2009, 07:18:06 pm
That reminds me.  While all of this AI upgrading is going on, are y'all going to be fixing other bugs (like the Momentumed Mutant problem, the Quantum AI Pillars problem, etc.?)

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on December 19, 2009, 07:45:43 pm
Btw, i noticed a mutated pest/devourer still sucks mana, though it displays momentum.
I wonder if it is a bug or a feature.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on December 19, 2009, 10:08:15 pm
That reminds me.  While all of this AI upgrading is going on, are y'all going to be fixing other bugs (like the Momentumed Mutant problem, the Quantum AI Pillars problem, etc.?)
Yes. Those are all getting fixed.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deadwolf on December 19, 2009, 11:50:47 pm
One thing I don't think people have mentioned yet:

The AI seems to use Rewind to target the creature with the highest attack on the opponent's field. It's usually better to use Rewind against the creature with the highest cost -- thereby forcing your opponent to once again spend those quanta. As a default, it might be good to make that change, and allow for some exceptions (e.g. targeting creatures with activation powers over creatures without activations).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 20, 2009, 03:38:55 am
I just had the AI put a Protect Artifact on a Sundial.  Probably not the best move. :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: chriskang on December 20, 2009, 04:21:38 am
Wall ahead. Beware!

Otyugh should target the most dangerous creature to its life, which is not always the highest attack/defense creature.
I consider lobotomy the most dangerous, then infecting stuff, otyughs with close defense come then.
Interesting feedback. Thanks. See my opinion at the bottom of the post.

It is not a problem if you infect a creature multiple times, but don't infect it if it would die anyway (infections>current defense).
Good point too.

Don't play spark when hourglass is in effect, unless you got more scavengers/bone walls than the enemy.
Don't play dive while hourglass/phase shield/bonewall is in effect.
Those are not part of the targeting function. But I keep them in mind for the future.

Now if I play Sundial I know for a FACT that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY of him killing me during the next 2 turns because I have also other higher priority permanents on the table. AI will target those higher every single time.
The FG  SHOULD consider your Sundial to be the highest priority. If it doesn't, the AI is wrong and needs improvement.

If you make it so they target weapons more often, small rainbows are screwed. Eternity will be useless. A lot of people are going to need to remake their rainbow decks :-/
I put a Protect Artifact on my Eternity as soon as it enters the game. Don't you?

Of course, there's the relevant Wiki page (http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/Potential_AI_Improvements) to check.
A lot of interesting suggestions there but not that much relevant. Most of them are not part of the targeting function.

Realistically, the various skills should be given a range of targeting values (beyond just "+3 value if skill exists".)  Things like bioluminescence should be worth +0 (no more targeting Fireflys over FFQs), photosynthesis and gravity pull would be around +1,  mutate and other potentially fail abilities along with momentum (which is already only great on a decent attacker) would be +2, most generally-useful abilities would be +3, and real game-changers like Queen, Destroy, Steal, Reverse Time, Sniper, and Devour would be +4.
That's exactly how I started to work. My evaluation of the threat is a little bit different than yours though. See below.

Also, in general, it would actually improve the AI's play quite a bit if, at the start of each turn, it looked through it's hand for free cards and played them first, then went through and played costed cards in order from most to least expensive.  That way, Graviton would get an Otyugh (and control of the board) on turn 1 instead of turn 4 or 5 after it's used all of it's Fire Masters. 

There are obviously circumstances when that isn't the case, but I think it would help.  At the very least, it should play all pillars first before it goes back and plays any other cards.  :)
Not part of the targeting function. But thanks anyway :)

If no PU/TU in deck, diversify buff targets. If this is possible to code, that is...
If creature has 10+ HP and/or HP>ATK, don't Armor
If poison count on creature = creature HP, don't infect it anymore
When Momentum, play it on a creature with 4+ attack
Use Photosynthesis multiple times until 12 Light quanta is reached, not once per turn per Rust/Leaf Dragon!
I agree with all points but the first one. I keep thinking that 99% of the times, when a deck has some buffs in it, they're supposed to target the same creature every time. PU/TU was just an example but it's the same with a Deja Vu rush deck or when you just want to buff a momentumed dragon.


Really check for buffs if there is a playable PU/TU in hand and play them on your strongest creature, then PU/TU. Not before.
Agree 100%. But not for now as it's not part of the autotarget function. I'll be sure to think about that when I work on the play order.

for example I play a have 9 life quanta, and play a frog, adrenaline it, then use an upped cockatrice. the frog's damage dealt at the end of the turn will be 12, and the cockatrice 5, but the frog is a lower-priority target (Statuses don't count as skills for the +3 apparently). Of course this is with adrenaline, which isn't out yet, but i'm assuming that the better AI will come out with the new cards.
Yes, statuses (momentum, poison, adrenaline and the others) definitely have to be taken into account.

also something needs to be said about the AI decking itself (as rainbow).
That's indeed a concern but I don't really know how to solve that. Even if I "teach" FG to reverse his own creature, that won't prevent him from decking out (as they'll only reverse 1 card and draw 2 on next turn). Any thought on this? Maybe we could ask Zanzarino if he would agree with the following change "FG might draw 2 cards per turn but they can choose to draw only 1 if they prefer". With this rule change (that I'm ready to implement) it would effectively be possible to prevent FG from decking.

EDIT: also wasting quant to play more eclipses/nightfalls or playing it when they have no creatures and the enemy does
Good point, thanks. But not part of the targeting.

I just hope the AI doesn't grow so complex that it slows down the game while it's thinking. AS isn't particularly fast programming language and one of the strong points of this game is the quickness of most matches.
I take great care in checking that, don't worry.

I say give pillars/towers lowest priority over everything, so if there's a sundial on the field, the AI targets the dial instead of the towers you played first.
Agreed, obviously.

my game against fire queen: shes playing with a lot of airquanta eagls eye... i have 2 otys with 0/5 and 3/5...
first sniper 0/5 and 3/2... but there are NO other creatures and sundial in play, so my 3/2 cant attack... but firequeen shoot on 3/2... so my 0/5 oty already has enough def to devour a skelett and so on... i think, its better when ai can think about the relevance, better to slow down the other one too, because so i get one round more für one of them... with 3/2 and 0/2 theres in this round not realy a chance... i think  8)
The old AI took only "creature's attack" into account to find the biggest threat of the battlefield, that's why the Oty with 3 atk was always the primary target. Now the threat will be calculated differently depending on the creature's skill.
For example, when several Oty are in play, computer will always target the one with the highest defense, as it's the highest threat for a creature that has devour.
When 2 queens are in play, one 3/7 and one 3/3, it will target the 3/3 to finish it. Because a high defense queen isn't more dangerous than a low defense.
And so on.

but more funny, i think, is when FQ draws a flying weapon, she plays! so, as i had an oty with 7 deff and an eagls eye self... she plays her eaglseye with flying weapon... without snipering... so next round, i devour this flying eagl... not that much intelligent  ;)
This has to be fixed, indeed. But it's part of the card ordering, not skill targeting. I'm not working on this part right now. Hopefully later.

Also don't use dive if your attack strength is 0 :)
In a heavy mutation battle i won by this quirk.
The enemy wasted quanta on diving a 0/4 flying egg.
Thanks, but part of the decision algorithm, not targeting.

Also, it seems the AI doesn't consider that after using a wounding ability (like owl's eye) it can use devour.
Many times I could slip in pests when an Oty has 0/2, the enemy hits my pest to 0/1, the Oty doesn't grab the snack.
And of course next round my Pest is already underground.
That's how the ordering function currently works. See "Main loop" section here:
http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/10#Main_loop (http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/10#Main_loop)
Computer plays (or not) creature skills, then permanent skills (including weapons), then ends turn. There should be a second check on creature skills after permanent. I'll try to improve that when I work on this function.

Btw, i noticed a mutated pest/devourer still sucks mana, though it displays momentum.
I wonder if it is a bug or a feature.
It's a bug. Nothing to do in this thread though.

That reminds me.  While all of this AI upgrading is going on, are y'all going to be fixing other bugs (like the Momentumed Mutant problem, the Quantum AI Pillars problem, etc.?)
Yes. Those are all getting fixed.
Not by me in the near future. Did you get this information from Zanzarino?

The AI seems to use Rewind to target the creature with the highest attack on the opponent's field. It's usually better to use Rewind against the creature with the highest cost -- thereby forcing your opponent to once again spend those quanta. As a default, it might be good to make that change, and allow for some exceptions (e.g. targeting creatures with activation powers over creatures without activations).
In mid/end game, you have more quanta than needed most of the time so replaying a costly card is not really a problem. In my opinion, threats should be evaluated by looking:
* creature skill first
* then attack
* then card cost



As for skills that represent a high threat when you face them, here's the order that I suggest:
1. Devour, Paradox, Immortality (highest priority, if human has it computer tries to get rid of it asap)
2. Reverse Time, Lobotomize, Congeal
3. Destroy, Sniper, Steel, Infection, Freeze, Tsunami
4. Queen, Infect
5. Growth, Improve, Poison, Venom
6. Ablaze, Fiery, Mutation, Scavenger, Dive
7. Gravity Pull, Hatch, Lycanthropy
8. Heal, Photosynthesis, Scramble
9. All other skill

Please comment.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on December 20, 2009, 04:33:59 am
Quote
Not by me in the near future. Did you get this information from Zanzarino?
I got it from Jmizzle who got it from Zanzarino. So yes, by extension.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 20, 2009, 05:19:44 am
Quote
As for skills that represent a high threat when you face them, here's the order that I suggest:
1. Devour, Paradox, Immortality (highest priority, if human has it computer tries to get rid of it asap)
2. Reverse Time, Lobotomize, Congeal
3. Destroy, Sniper, Steel, Infection, Freeze, Tsunami
4. Queen, Infect
5. Growth, Improve, Poison, Venom
6. Ablaze, Fiery, Mutation, Scavenger, Dive
7. Gravity Pull, Hatch, Lycanthropy
8. Heal, Photosynthesis, Scramble
9. All other skill
IMHO, Steal should be swapped with Congeal.  That kind of persistent permanent control is mucho more dangerous to the AI than having a creature stalled for 4 turns.   I also am of the opinion that Freeze and Queen should be swapped.  Queen is serious power; Freeze is strong, but not strong enough to play with the likes of Sniper or Destroy.

I think Improve is more dangerous than you grade it; it should be at 4.

Lycanthropy is in almost every case going to be numerically superior to Dive, seeing as it generally produces more damage than Dive and only has to be activated once.  I'd swap those two, as well.

Finally, you should add in Adrenaline at 5, and IMHO move "all other" up to 7. :)


Being Infected should reduce priority by 1 per point of Infection.  Being Congealed/Frozen should reduce priority by 100% until there is only 1 turn left, then it should reduce priority by 50%.   Being Gravity Pulled should reduce priority by 50%.


Just my opinions
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Delreich on December 20, 2009, 02:28:00 pm
Reflecting shields aren't taken into consideration (or at least not properly) at the moment.
A player with such a shield should not be targeted.
If the AI has such a shield, itself should have the score that the player would have without such a shield.
This all assumes the functionality of reflecting shields hasn't been changed.

There's also a bug with reflecting shields, in that spells cast by the AI on a player with such a shield only fizzle rather than bounce. That's not a targetting issue though.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: xdude on December 21, 2009, 09:23:32 am
maybe ai should rewind if u can't summon that crit again? like:
u summon photon.u mutate getting a huge ice drag.ai rewinds.u draw an useless card.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on December 21, 2009, 09:51:38 am
I think once the AI with reflecting shield healed ME.
I'm not entirely sure, but it used holy flash (a healing spell) and my hp went up.
I don't know how it supposed to work. 1. beneficial spells still work on self or 2. it shouldn't target itself.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Dragoon on December 21, 2009, 07:39:18 pm
Here's another quirk of the AI.  FQ should snipe with EE before she Animates it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on December 22, 2009, 05:18:24 am
A few things I've noticed with the new otyugh AI in the trainer...

-It just ate an angel infected with aflapoison. It was also infected. It should have let the angel live to heal them both.

-Before, an elite otyugh has eaten a fallen druid on its field to get even with my 6/6 werewolf. Obviously, that served no purpose; it got its health closer to my werewolf, but in the end, destroying its own fallen druid helped me to win. It never did get to eat my werewolf.

Simple (kinda) solution: Make oty only eat its own creatures if the creatures have 2 or less attack and defense and have no ability. You could expand this to say skeletons are always devourable targets, since an eclipsed elite skelly is 4/3.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Celyka on December 22, 2009, 07:13:46 am
I don't think this has been mentioned yet, and it may be a target issue.

A couple times now, I've had the AI cast 2 Rain of Fire/Fire Storms on my creatures when just one would have taken them all out, wasting a card.  It just happened again so I wanted to mention it.

EDIT:  I play a mono fire deck and none of my creatures have more than 3 HPs.  If I had to guess why, it's because the first fire storm's animation(flame pillars) had not removed my creatures yet so it casts another if it has one.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: xdude on December 22, 2009, 07:55:46 am
I don't think this has been mentioned yet, and it may be a target issue.

A couple times now, I've had the AI cast 2 Rain of Fire/Fire Storms on my creatures when just one would have taken them all out, wasting a card.  It just happened again so I wanted to mention it.

EDIT:  I play a mono fire deck and none of my creatures have more than 3 HPs.  If I had to guess why, it's because the first fire storm's animation(flame pillars) had not removed my creatures yet so it casts another if it has one.


you know, the ai isn't watching the animation...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Celyka on December 22, 2009, 09:23:48 am
I don't think this has been mentioned yet, and it may be a target issue.

A couple times now, I've had the AI cast 2 Rain of Fire/Fire Storms on my creatures when just one would have taken them all out, wasting a card.  It just happened again so I wanted to mention it.

EDIT:  I play a mono fire deck and none of my creatures have more than 3 HPs.  If I had to guess why, it's because the first fire storm's animation(flame pillars) had not removed my creatures yet so it casts another if it has one.


you know, the ai isn't watching the animation...
I know the AI isn't watching it, but it IS watching the creatures it was trying to kill.  There is a slight delay using Rain of Fire/Firestorm before the creatures are removed, and it's the animation effect.  It's not instant like a fire bolt or any other instant.  When I see the card played, the animation starts and the AI immediately plays another RoF/FS.

Anyways, it was just a thought on why the AI does this.

EDIT:  Just witnessed this again, he didn't cast a double RoF/FS (was out of cards), but the animation of the one RoF he did cast killed the middle creature first, there was a small delay, then the other 2 were removed.  It could be nothing at all, or maybe something *shrug*  Just trying to be helpful if I can.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jmizzle7 on December 22, 2009, 10:47:01 am
A simple fix to this would be to put a delay at the end of the Rain of Fire function. I have actually taken advantage of this small glitch many, many times against Graviton.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Terroking on December 22, 2009, 06:10:47 pm
There is also a delay with the scavenger skill activating so that you could kill 20 creatues when three vultures/condors  are at 5/6 with 2 RoFs and they would die.

But we're getting off-topic.

EDIT: also the AI tends not to use the unupgraded virus infect ability when it has 0 death quantums, found that a bit odd, though i guess 2.5x0=0
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 22, 2009, 08:51:52 pm
I've actually taken advantage of this glitch to quickly cast a Bone Wall that I had forgotten, and thus managed to get the deaths from RoF to count towards the Bone Wall. :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jmizzle7 on December 22, 2009, 09:40:26 pm
Conversely, you can cast RoF and quickly end your turn if your opponent has a Bone Wall with just a few charges on it to destroy the wall before it has a chance to collect the bonus.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ohmega on December 25, 2009, 06:59:33 am
Sometimes the AI uses Attack agains a creature and rewind it if it's not killed. Maybe you can make the AI always use Rewind first or let he AI check if the card kills the creature. If no schearch fo rewind in your hand. If there is no rewind use the Spell.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on December 25, 2009, 05:13:43 pm
Eternities.  For the love of the Lord, please make the AI realize that I'm gonna deck out if it doesn't keep rewinding my creatures!  I actually got a mastery and another Eternity because they couldn't resist rewinding a few skellies.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: lehomard2 on December 26, 2009, 12:31:12 am
Hum AI using a sundial when he could have killed me, preventing his crits to do the job. Don't know if already mentioned too : AI playing several dials, or playing dials when no danger and no light quantum available.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: xingbing1 on December 26, 2009, 09:34:22 pm
Hi! First post.

I was playing against a level 2, and he played a wyrm whilst I had a dimensional shield up. What with the AI improvement, he didn't dive. However, then he played momentum on it, so it ignored my dimensional shield. And he still didn't do dive, even though he now ignored my dimensional shield.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on December 26, 2009, 10:06:18 pm
Dunno if these were already mentioned:

1. The ai is using retrovirus ability all the time, even when there is no potential casualty.
2. the ai is using the dissipation field/shield too early, it is easily used against it.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bobcamel on December 27, 2009, 08:40:59 pm
For now, the AI uses ze Disappointment Field when it has 60 overall quanta or Disappointment Shield with 20 Entropy owned.

Suggest a better threshold.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: zac80 on December 28, 2009, 11:45:17 am
Some of these were already mentioned, but I just post here my collection intact. I know these do not all connect directly to the target choosing algorithm, but may be of help nevertheless.

- using Sundials/Hourglasses, and decking out
- Rewinding/using Eternity and preventing me decking out before him
- it uses Healing with Emerald Shield on
- stealing Bone shield/wall (to replace perfectly functioning Phase shield, Dissipation Field, etc.)
- plays small HP creatures (and FFQ creates Fireflies), even if I have multiple Otyughs
- poisons ALWAYS one creature (with most damage), insted small but dangerous ones (like Werewolf)
- targets the creature with largest damage, instead of the one, who generates hundreds of minions and much larger damage therefore (Fireflies instead of FFQ, Skeletons instead of Otyugh & Boneyard)
- uses Protect/Enchant artefact on Sundial right before it expires and disappears
- Sundial is active, but he keeps spending quantums on Dive
- Plays Spark, when Sundial is active, AND I've got Bone shield
- Freezes Firefly instead of Firefly Queen
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 29, 2009, 01:35:00 am
I don't know if it counts as targeting, but the fact that the AI measures shields by casting cost alone leads to some funny results.  I just had the AI replace a Mirror Shield with a Solar Shield -- exactly the same damage reduction, but it lost the spell-reflecting quality, because the Solar Shield costs more.  :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on December 31, 2009, 11:19:16 pm
Mind the double post, but it's been a couple of days, so here goes:

The AI needs to target Rage Potion/Elixir only on those creatures that will die to it.  I can't count the number of times the lvl 5 AI has killed itself by spamming Rage against a few of my FFQs and bumping them to 8/2 creatures just in time to have them deal what wouldn't have been the lethal blow.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Terroking on January 02, 2010, 12:05:10 am
Just another problem with the AI using permanents at the end of its turn, if he only has 4 gravity quanta, 2 otys and a pulvy out, and i have no creatures and a fahrenheit that is going to kill him, he will play another oty from his hand and not destroy my fahrenheit.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on January 04, 2010, 10:10:49 pm
Not sure if this counts as targeting, but it involves using a creature ability, so I think it might: the AI still stupidly sacrifices Retroviruses when I have no creatures in play.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jerfle on January 05, 2010, 08:13:25 am
the ai froze my creature it had just cast antimatter on.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: zac80 on January 05, 2010, 02:33:26 pm
in v1.17: The AI cast immortality on a lobotomized 0/5 Oty.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Grunion on January 06, 2010, 01:59:51 am
In 1.17, playing against a lvl5 Earth Mark.

He kept putting Plate Armor on creatures despite my having a Gravity Shield up, him having no source of gravity (thus no Momentum), and it started before I got anything out that could eat creatures.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Celyka on January 06, 2010, 10:53:30 am
It happened again, this time he cast 3.  Sorry for the condensed attachment but it had to be sized down to under 128k.  Managed to hit print screen before the first one faded.

Edit:  This is in regards to my previous post about casting more than on Rain of Fire when only 1 was needed.  I was playing against the level 5 AI Pyronos.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: yeehaw on January 06, 2010, 01:02:16 pm
Chriskang, any chance of updating your AI wiki page?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: zac80 on January 07, 2010, 01:05:58 pm
AI put Antimatter on a 1/1 Werewolf, instead of waiting one turn when I supposedly activate its Lycanthropy skill. Thus it became -1/1, which (after skill-activation: +5/+5) became 4/6. AI could have gained +6 healing/turn by waiting a bit more...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on January 08, 2010, 05:11:55 am
I was playing Gemini, and I found a situation in which I think the new AI needs to be slightly revised.

The AI's "it's time to TU" trigger happened, and it looked across the field for valid targets.  It saw a 9/31 Momentumed Dragon on it's side, and a plain-ass FFQ on mine...and cloned the FFQ a half-dozen times in a row.


(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4659/geminizer.png)


I lol'd.

Then I won.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: eszkis on January 09, 2010, 09:28:28 pm
AI casting multiple weapons at a time, first the upped, then the unupped one, leaving him with the one that costs more.
http://www.box.net/shared/r6i8pxtpan (http://www.box.net/shared/r6i8pxtpan)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Destrial on January 10, 2010, 10:58:56 pm
yeah the ai is much more deadly expecialy rainbow ^^" you might as well nearly give ups if you have a small decks cause etenrity is good as gones with out pa :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: YoYoBro on January 10, 2010, 11:00:56 pm
the old stupid incarnate is proving to be much more difficult... still weak tho :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Getawu2 on January 11, 2010, 07:29:21 pm
I played against Hermes and had an immortal Otyugh, Fallen Druid and Elite Queen. Hermes had a 3-3-Graboid (burrowed) with infection, gained by a mutation.

Hermes played Rage Elixier nevertheless, I cannot say on which creature he tried it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jmizzle7 on January 11, 2010, 10:01:49 pm
I played against Hermes and had an immortal Otyugh, Fallen Druid and Elite Queen. Hermes had a 3-3-Graboid (burrowed) with infection, gained by a mutation.

Hermes played Rage Elixier nevertheless, I cannot say on which creature he tried it.
Why can't you say which creature Hermes Raged? Is it because there was no target, but Hermes was allowed to play it anyway? Because that is a bug and should be reported in the "Report a Bug" section.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Getawu2 on January 12, 2010, 07:13:59 am
I played against Hermes and had an immortal Otyugh, Fallen Druid and Elite Queen. Hermes had a 3-3-Graboid (burrowed) with infection, gained by a mutation.

Hermes played Rage Elixier nevertheless, I cannot say on which creature he tried it.
Why can't you say which creature Hermes Raged? Is it because there was no target, but Hermes was allowed to play it anyway? Because that is a bug and should be reported in the "Report a Bug" section.
You're right, I only thought what a stupid thing it is to do, playing a Rage Elixier without a target, so I totaly forgot that it shouldn't even be possible to play the elixier.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on January 13, 2010, 06:34:59 pm
I just watched a full-health AI play Lava Destroyer, Liquid Shadow it, hit me for 7 (healing zero) and killing the Destroyer.

Oops.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on January 15, 2010, 09:13:28 pm
I just watched Destiny play a Fate Egg & Chaos Power it twice (on turn 2) and then Hatch it next turn, wasting the Chaos Powers completely.  Perhaps creatures with 'Hatch' need to be given a rule that sets them as 'never the alphacreature'?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: fleetze on January 15, 2010, 10:32:52 pm
The false god's start with Double your life, draw 2 cards a turn, and get 3 mark per turn...   so yea keep tweaking the ai and the decks until it's strong decks with strong ai, and you will lose.    They need to concentrate on pvp and leave ai alone, or work on ai but take away the computer's bonuses.  either one. 
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Delreich on January 17, 2010, 07:45:24 am
My first game vs Obliterator was... interesting. In one turn, he cast four Gravity Forces: first on my druid, then one of my skeletons, then the druid again, then the same skeleton.
Final result: one dead skelly, four cards spent.

Probably shouldn't use GP if there already is a higher priority target with GP, now that the spells function like the ability (pre-existing GP status is removed).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Delreich on January 18, 2010, 04:03:00 pm
The AI fire bolted a plain horned frog rather than an adrenalined one. Seems adrenalin isn't properly considered when evaluating targets.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deadwolf on January 18, 2010, 06:13:16 pm
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the AI shouldn't use improvements on a Fate Egg, but wait until the Egg hatches... It just Chaos Powered a Fate Egg and then transformed it...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: zac80 on January 21, 2010, 05:26:52 pm
AI5 has just Quintessenced a 3/0 Spark. The prioritizing function of creatures should consider attack power (wasting improvments on Fate Eggs), vulnerability (improving creatures unnecessarily, when there is an Oty that will eat them) and lifetime as well (improving x/0 creatures).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Lucifear on February 14, 2010, 03:22:38 am
Besides the bug of playing multiple grav pulls on a single creature, I watched dark matter use a black hole on me....On the very first turn of the game. The fact that I had 0 quantums in general, and he had 200 life...Irrelevant :D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Glitch on February 14, 2010, 04:03:02 am
When a creature it controls is anti-mattered, the computer doesn't consider it to be an enemy creature.

When a computer is being mana-pinched, it'll attack a strong creature instead of a devourer (maybe a good call?)

This one is probably the hardest one to get, but when I use fate egg to get a nymph I can't use, the computer will kill it anyway.  Maybe check to see if the player has any mana to use abilities before the computer kills it?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: tyranim on February 14, 2010, 04:10:50 am
one failure i noticed in the ai is the fact that they have a tendency of healing themselves even though they have a reflecting shield on, thus healing me. it saved my butt a lot when i was just beginning. but now its annoying
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: teffy on February 14, 2010, 04:10:52 pm
I haven´t seen a grav. pull on Armagio in lvl 3 for some weeks.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Essence on February 15, 2010, 10:00:59 pm
Just about to make the same observation, Teffy. 
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Glitch on February 16, 2010, 02:01:17 am
I'm pretty sure this has already mentioned, but the AI will use all of it's gravity pulls on one guy, rendering them useless, and then momentum all it's creatures anyway.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: mightyhat on February 16, 2010, 07:09:40 pm
i saw most of the ones i wanted to mention (multiple gravity force on same creature, retrovirus with no targets on my side, ai replacing its own weapons, casting black hole when i have no quanta yet), but the one i didn't see mentioned is how poorly the ai uses burrowing/unburrowing in comparison to even the newest players. 1. burrowing a creature for reduced damage when i have no potential to target it. 2. unburrowing when my life is low, but i have walls, therefore allowing me to target it. 3.failing to unburrow when the ai should be able to deal lethal damage.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on February 18, 2010, 04:16:20 pm
I thought burrowing was better anyway; they seemed to burrow them at better times and unburrow in an attempt to finish me off.

As for the Armagios, they won't Gravity Pull UNLESS there is another creature with GP on, in which case then they use their ability to transfer it to them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: haparas on February 19, 2010, 02:46:38 pm
1.  I've been playing for about a week (mostly on Kongregate) and 3 times I've had level 5s on point of death use Basilisk Blood as if it was healing spell. It didn't work that way.
2. I paralleled a creature (Jade Staff flying weapon I think), next turn AI uses antimatter (it now hits me, heals AI, right?), next again AI destroys staff.
3. Not sure if this comes under AI specifically. I parallel a creature - the AI infects it - I parallel the uninfected original again -  the AI uses reverse time. But its the infected one thats reversed. It was to the right of the second one if that matters.
Hope these aren't just repeating well-known problems
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ftbhrygvn on February 20, 2010, 06:33:17 pm
Thanks for the code(Well, part of it, but quite enough). I am tired of people saying "That can be hard to code" and sweeping one's idea aside. I once thought to decompile the swf to get the code (didn't tough, 'cuz I don't think I can understand the raw code). But now I can read that page and tell them "That's not really hard, blah blah blah"
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: mafidufa on February 24, 2010, 11:44:40 am
Fire Queen just played animate weapon when it had a full field of creatures, losing its weapon... twice
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: oorenotsoo on March 01, 2010, 03:34:57 pm
Not sure if this was already mentioned but, I just watched it dive a peg while i had sundial up.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Wu_Li_Mammoth on March 02, 2010, 07:31:40 pm
One of the biggest mistakes i see the AI make, and they do it a lot, is using fire lances, drains, and ice bolts on creatures when it doesn't kill them. The AI doesn't appear to know how much damage those spells will do when they cast them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Krzysiek K. on March 04, 2010, 07:53:50 pm
"Steal" target logic weirdness: AI stealing Dimensional Shield with 0 charges left. OK, it lands one attack in the process, but it can land that attack on subsequent turn anyway and still steal something more useful (or just save Steal spell).

Extra weirdness of the above: AI replacing Gravity Shield with stolen 0 Dimensional Shield makes my Phase Dragons really happy. The same thing holds for most other annoying shields (Fire/Ice/Procrastination/Dissipation).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: redjag on March 05, 2010, 06:09:29 pm
Make the AI  consider the attack power post-adrenaline buff.  Detailed story next..

If I have multiple of the same creature in play and the AI wants to do something to hurt them, it picks its target in a predictable way.  For example, say the AI has an Eagle Eye up and I have 4 Giant Frogs in play.  The AI picks it's target solely based on attack power/defense (more likely just attack power) and ignores adrenaline.  So all 4 Giant Frogs are at the same spot on its kill list.  Since I know which one it will target first, I can play adrenaline on a different one, which nets me more turns attacking with my adrenalined frog than I'd get against an intelligent player.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Antysiw on March 05, 2010, 07:52:10 pm
Sometimes where there are no creatures/your creature is weaker than AI creatre then he is infecting like his dragon with virust not you mhmmm brimstone eater
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ajm6 on March 05, 2010, 08:15:43 pm
I think once the AI with reflecting shield healed ME.
I'm not entirely sure, but it used holy flash (a healing spell) and my hp went up.
I don't know how it supposed to work. 1. beneficial spells still work on self or 2. it shouldn't target itself.
I can confirm this it just happened to me the AI was using a reflective shield and used holy flash on itself healing me.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BluePriest on March 11, 2010, 01:16:00 pm
Ok, not going to go through the whole 5 pages, but Ill post what i found out about from my other thread that i was making in case anything was not mentioned.

Buggy AI

Sundial Spamming - putting all 6 sundials down in one turn

Shield/Weapon instant replace - putting down a weapon, and then immediately putting one down on top of it

Dive/Other Misuses - Using Dive (or other one turn ability) when there is a sundial or other item that stops the enemies attack.

Protect Sundial - Using a protect artifact on a sundial
________________
AI Improvements

Anti-Deck Outs using Eternity - When down to final card, then AI using eternity to save themselves when equipped

Virus/Retro-Virus Plague - Wait til the opponent has at least one monster on the field before sacrificing virus to use its ability

Poison/Miracle Healing - Recognize ALL effects that will damage you and use miracle accordingly [I remember reading about this, if someone has more info, it would be useful]

Poison OVER Stacking - Putting 5 poison on an enemy that only has 3 health when theres other monsters on the field. (even though there is some debate on whether or not multiple stacks of poison is good, over stacking is definitly a problem)

Spamming Water Nymphs - When using Nymphonia decks, water nymphs are spammed (why keep spamming water nymphs? Mine as well get some other ones out there too.)

Verification Needed

Nymph Abilities - Actually USE nymph abilities when you have the quantum


Contributers
BluePriest
XDude
(Others I dont know because I saw the posts in the forums, and just have it in my memory)

Then also posted
Belthazar666
AI uses Liquid Shadow when they have max health. (Obsidian Dragon was the creature it was used on, if it matters.)

ajm6
using quintessence on sparks and ball lightning.

Unburrowing creatures to "finish" me when I have a phase shield or sundial up. (I've been saved in a few games by combining this bug with RoF and bonewall, boneyards, and bonds)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BluePriest on March 11, 2010, 01:52:27 pm
Also, your opponent playing sundials when they also have a phase shield up, pretty worthless
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: edunavas on March 11, 2010, 02:36:25 pm
I think the AI errors make the AI more real.
We do make mistakes too and nothing more real if the AI do the same sometimes.
Maybe creating a new AI 7 that do not make mistakes like playng a lot of sundials at the same time, and has a real good deck
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bloodshadow on March 11, 2010, 05:27:56 pm
There is no such thing as "real" AI. A perfectly real AI would resemble a human player, which is impossible.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on March 11, 2010, 09:32:34 pm
the AI should also chose more sensible creatures for blessing and such, once i saw a blessing used 4 times on a virus and then used virus ability losing it 3 blessings. The Ai also did this once, it had a morning star then replaced it with a dagger, it was really funny but those are just things iv seen that are really fun XD.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bigbadbanana on March 12, 2010, 01:04:34 am
Please make the damage prediction for adrenaline visible
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on March 12, 2010, 02:31:41 pm
I was playing against :time / :aether AI3, and he paralleled my 3/3 forest spirit, while he could PU a 4/4 cockatrice. He obviously cannot grow spirits, so I guess when choosing a target for parallel universe he should check if he can use the ability and if he cannot, the ability should not increase creatures value as a target.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: fatelovesyou on March 14, 2010, 09:13:09 am
I already corrected a few bugs (like the computer hurting its own death/darkness creatures with "holy light")
Hm, that was posted Dec 18 but I JUST saw the computer do exactly that. I don't know if it was an intentional thing where the computer doesn't play perfectly to make it easier on the player but thought I'd mention it..

Also it sometimes doesn't use Sniper on Owl's eye after having used it the last two turns on the same creature. I had my Firefly Queen out and it shot at it twice leaving it with 1 HP. But instead of finishing it off it did nothing. In another similar situation, it went for my other Firefly Queen instead of finishing the one it had already almost killed, and yet another time it went for a Firefly instead.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: hermantheowl on March 14, 2010, 05:14:50 pm
The AI will sometimes take a couple turns to figure out it can use its rare weapon's ability.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on March 15, 2010, 12:51:14 am
(http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/m7Gbd52613/Nightfall_thumb.jpg) (http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/view/m7Gbd52613/Nightfall)
A wonderful moment to play a nightfall, don't you think?
AI had no death/darkness creatures, I had a bunch of skeletons, he had a skull shield blocking my skeletons, what does AI do?
He commits a suicide xD

Ok, I know this might be extremely hard to fix, because it would require comparing the advantages and disadvantages of playing nightfall, but moments like this is when we wonder if AI is even trying to win, or only make us laugh xD


EDIT:
One more example of bad timing of AI: playing a black hole on turn 0 (Dark Matter), before I got any quanta, so he basically wasted 4 :gravity and a spell for nothing
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: chimto on March 15, 2010, 01:42:56 am
Sometimes a FG sacrificed a Retrovirus while both players had no monster on the field (yes, I had a Bonewall) or play 6 Eclipses.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on March 17, 2010, 04:45:21 am
yea iv noticed the SAMe thing but somtimes they do it on purpose (they have 6 gravyards thats 12 damage perturn compared to one.)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BluePriest on March 17, 2010, 12:43:17 pm
yea iv noticed the SAMe thing but somtimes they do it on purpose (they have 6 gravyards thats 12 damage perturn compared to one.)
but they usually get thier viruses and sacrifice them, before they even get 1 bonewall/yard on the field.

The AI plays sundials to counter weapons from attacking (and sundials dont protect from that). I only had a lobo on the field in my weapon slot, and the comp decided playing a sundial would be the best way to stop me.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: macgawel on March 21, 2010, 06:12:33 pm
Didn't see it :
Elidnis use growth on two Forset Specter, but not on the one that is immortal ???
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on March 22, 2010, 02:44:28 am
RAI moment
Ai 1 vampire out and i have about 28 skeletons.... he decides to play a retro virus then puts out nightful and commits suicide.
Ai casts drain life on his own creatures to save himself (could have killed me but drained his own creature and lost.)
Ai casts like 8 retro virus on the 2nd turn.....
Ai casts plague while i have 1 creature out...
Ai mutates own fallen druid
Ai improves my creature (i won  becuase of that vs chaos lord )
Ai steals sundials (no point)
Ai EA sundial
Ai summons 30 skeletons then uses unstable gas and kills them all (bonewall win)

these are from 1 day of playing
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ghoststalker on March 27, 2010, 04:43:26 pm
Eldinis uses ceongeal on my dragon, just to PU it and has a frozen dragon on its side. using the spell the other way around, she could have a hard hittign dragon for 4 more turns.
(the dragon was a mutant, don't know if this is important for the AI)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on March 27, 2010, 04:54:21 pm
Eldinis uses ceongeal on my dragon, just to PU it and has a frozen dragon on its side. using the spell the other way around, she could have a hard hittign dragon for 4 more turns.
(the dragon was a mutant, don't know if this is important for the AI)
with the AI mutants are enemy number one
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Anh on March 28, 2010, 02:52:11 am
AI: has Eternity in use and has zero card in the deck
Should use Eternity's ability on its own creature to prevent automatic lost.

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Thalas on March 28, 2010, 05:38:25 pm
There is so much to fix
1) enemy use 3 gravity on the same creature in 1 turn
2) enemy use protect artifact on shield and then replace the shield
3) enemy sacrifice retrovirus and i don't have any creatures on the field
4)enemy stealing/destroying 1 of my 4 hourglasses and I have in deck 8 cards, but my phase shield is ignored.
etc.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: -Samura- on March 29, 2010, 02:29:10 am
AI: has Eternity in use and has zero card in the deck
Should use Eternity's ability on its own creature to prevent automatic lost.
i agree this is one of the biggest flows ...

.. other that i can see..
- low priority on destroying boneyards
- will spend all gravity pulls on one creature or some bolt and then it rewinds it ??
- (very exploitable) : AI eartquake/quicksand every time the first pile pillar/tower type played - the one is on the leftest side of the board
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ackermiv on March 29, 2010, 12:16:00 pm
more or less the same problem with eternity not used at own creature when having no cards is using rewind at enemy creature when he has no cards...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Wisemage on March 30, 2010, 01:14:38 am
AI: has Eternity in use and has zero card in the deck
Should use Eternity's ability on its own creature to prevent automatic lost.
i agree this is one of the biggest flows ...

.. other that i can see..
- low priority on destroying boneyards
- will spend all gravity pulls on one creature or some bolt and then it rewinds it ??
- (very exploitable) : AI eartquake/quicksand every time the first pile pillar/tower type played - the one is on the leftest side of the board

SSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, this is the only way to stand a chance agaisnt seism without using EA
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: -Samura- on March 31, 2010, 11:58:05 pm
AI: has Eternity in use and has zero card in the deck
Should use Eternity's ability on its own creature to prevent automatic lost.
i agree this is one of the biggest flows ...

.. other that i can see..
- low priority on destroying boneyards
- will spend all gravity pulls on one creature or some bolt and then it rewinds it ??
- (very exploitable) : AI eartquake/quicksand every time the first pile pillar/tower type played - the one is on the leftest side of the board

SSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, this is the only way to stand a chance agaisnt seism without using EA
lol ! .. indeed it can be ..  is not as easy as it seems tho, but it's a way :]

btw, i think it was against FQ-fg, idk if it was only that particular game, but i noted if i didnt play anything besides pillar/tower or permanents, AI didn't play anything beside pillar/towers or permanents either .. >.>
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: torchman on April 01, 2010, 01:39:33 am
AI uses antimatter as soon as it is able to. For myself, I only keep two of them, because they're expensive. They cost a lot of  :entropy. So I only use them against something with at least an 8 attack, maybe a six attack if I have 8 cards and I don't want to discard any. The best combo is adrenaline, liquid shadow and antimatter on something with a 4-7 attack and AI NEVER does that. (It extracts and gives you hit points multiple times). Also, AI never destroys an antimattered creature on its side. It'll consistently kill a dinky creature with a low attack on my side before it kills an antimattered creature with high attack on its side.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on April 01, 2010, 11:05:36 am
i have seen an AI do this..
antimatter a 3/3 creature (lame)
use adrenaline on it (:C)
and then luqiud shadow it (:OOOOOOO X.x)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: spcialbean on April 02, 2010, 04:15:27 pm
Does the AI ever use armagio's skill?  i dont think i've ever seen it put into affect.  This card seems to be intended to be used as a 'tank' of sorts and can be coupled with holy light or gaurdian angel to really soak up ALOT of damage.  I've never seen the AI try to use this skill...

Also, if the AI's deck has offensive buff's like blessing or rage potion, this seems to be a situationally great card (armagio) for those to be used on as its very difficult to destroy this creature.

also also, I've used the strategy (sometimes incorrectly) of hitting my own creatures (i play pseudo mono-life deck so my dragon has HP=6) with lightning when a gravity shield is up.  are there other instances when a strategy like this could be implemented by the AI?  ex. killing your own 2 or 4 hp creature when an oty+quint is played to save a bunch of 3 or 5 hp creatures he would eat next turn (etc).

also also also, is having the AI consider his likelyhood of running out of cards too complicated to impliment.  if i dont have any hourglasses, and the AI has many, he should probably not let his remaining cards go below mine if the game has gone deep into our hands.  I notice he slows down his hourglass useage towards the end, but I always kind of smile when I see the computer clicking those hourglasses when he has <10 cards left and he gets dealt 2 per turn.

also, could the AI have different 'personalities'?  like one AI may save up to play his big creature cards before his smaller ones, or save a T-storm when there are <3 creatures in play or hang onto lightnings till a creature with 5+ attack is played.... etc.  while other personalities are more aggressive and just want to hit you from the start (ex. playing black hole very very early to keep you from getting cards out)

also, does the AI consider the long-term benefit of paying for growth?  paying that 1 quanta early and whenever possible on forest spirit is huge after many turns b/c that +2 attack is now being applied to EACH subsequent turn...  that is often much stronger than waiting a turn or two to save up those quanta to play a 3 or 4 or 5 attack creature.  maybe a personality trait could dictate if he chooses to save the quanta or grow the creature.  also shield's that take off damage are much more powerful against many-creature attacks, so 1 huge forest spirit>> many cockatrices for example for many of the shields.

also, does AI have knowledge of the cards that he has in his deck or just in his hand?

I understand making a PERFECT AI would be too hard to beat b/c he gets 2 cards/turn and 3 quanta from mark already.  also I dont think any of the AI decks have shards.  (i guess that's what the top-50 decks are for: playing a pvp-like game vs the comp)  but making it more human/situational would be fun.

sorry so many questions but those are my ideas on the AI.  there's probably a place where all these are answered already.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on April 02, 2010, 09:05:44 pm
the AI dose seem to do that but the smartest thing iv seen a fg do is save about 6 PU and use them all on my dragons to kill me
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Drawckab on April 04, 2010, 04:54:52 am
I don't know if Holy Cow was an April Fools card or if it's just a funny rare or what, but the AI lobotomized it instead of my vampire.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: alienorigin on April 05, 2010, 08:31:53 pm
So I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, and I don't even know if it's smart, but when the AI is using eagle's eyes, it'll snipe on of my 6|6 lycanthropes instead of hitting the 1|1  it seems that taking out the 1|1 this turn would be more beneficial.  Might just be me


On a side note, might not have been the best thread for my first post on the forums but I figure why not.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Belthazar666 on April 05, 2010, 08:57:36 pm
AI will deja vu an antimattered creature. This might need some testing, as it might only happen when momentum/adrenaline are on the creature, or both.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on April 05, 2010, 08:58:38 pm
AI will deja vu an antimattered creature.
ya i seen that before it got me EM vs paradox once :D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on April 06, 2010, 12:26:58 am
So I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, and I don't even know if it's smart, but when the AI is using eagle's eyes, it'll snipe on of my 6|6 lycanthropes instead of hitting the 1|1  it seems that taking out the 1|1 this turn would be more beneficial.  Might just be me


On a side note, might not have been the best thread for my first post on the forums but I figure why not.
It's just you :).

Think about it. You kill the 1/1, then take two turns to kill the 6/6. Total damage:

6+6=12.

Or you kill the 6/6 then the 1/1.

7+1=8.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on April 06, 2010, 01:58:56 am
Sniping 1/1 first

Turn 1: Lycanthrope: 6/6 Lycanthrope: 1/1, total damage 7
Turn 1.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 1/1 becomes 1/0
Turn 2: Lycanthrope: 6/6, total damage 13
Turn 2.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 6/6, becomes 6/3
Turn 3: Lycanthrope: 6/3, total damage 19
Turn 3.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 6/3, becomes 6/0
Turn 4: total damage: 19

Sniping 6/6 first, with 1/1 guaranteed to use skill

Turn 1: Lycanthrope: 6/6 Lycanthrope: 1/1, total damage 7
Turn 1.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 6/6 becomes 6/3
Turn 2: Lycanthrope: 6/3, Lycanthrope 1/1: total damage 14
Turn 2.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 6/3, becomes 6/0, Lycanthrope 1/1 becomes 6/6
Turn 3: Lycanthrope: 6/6, total damage 20
Turn 3.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 6/6, becomes 6/3
Turn 4: Lycanthrope 6/3, total damage 26
Turn 4.5: EE snipe Lycanthrope 6/3, becomes 6/0
Turn 5: total damage: 26

Sorry Puppy, but I'm not sure where you get your numbers from, unless the other Lycanthrope does not use its skill due to a lack fo :darnkess quanta, in which case, if its guaranteed that the opponent will not get more, better to snipe the 6/6 than blitz the 1/1.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: alienorigin on April 06, 2010, 03:47:33 am
Just out of curiosity, where did your numbers come from puppy?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kameda on April 06, 2010, 04:27:00 am
I think he just forgot that take two turns to kill an Lycan.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Belthazar666 on April 06, 2010, 05:08:48 am
Puppy did what I did before I edited my post. He treated it as a 6/6 creature and a 1/1 creature, and didn't add the 5/5 to the 1/1.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on April 06, 2010, 12:17:46 pm
Puppy did what I did before I edited my post. He treated it as a 6/6 creature and a 1/1 creature, and didn't add the 5/5 to the 1/1.
This. I thought it was just a skeleton or something, not a lycan waiting to grow :).

Here was my logic:

-You snipe the 1/1 and end your turn.
-Opponent ends turn (total damage: 6)
-You snipe the lycan once and end your turn.
-Opponent ends turn (total damage: 6)
-You kill the lycan.
Total Damage: 12.

-You snipe the 6/6 and end your turn.
-Opponent ends turn (total damage: 1+6=7)
-You snipe & kill the 6/6 and end your turn.
-Opponent ends turn (total damage: 1)
-You kill the skeleton.
Total Damage: 8.

So yeah my logic was wrong since I didn't know the 1/1 was another lycan :D.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: alienorigin on April 06, 2010, 01:57:02 pm
Yay for miscommunication where I forgot to mention that it was a lycan 1|1...oops. 

Sorry about that. 
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on April 06, 2010, 03:05:02 pm
Yeah, my numbers took that into account because thats what happened in most of the situations I found myself in.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bloodshadow on April 09, 2010, 06:01:09 am
This is not something that already happened, but rather something that could happen.

If you have multiple Floodings, they don't do anything more than one single Flooding, right? But if you have more than one Flooding per turn, do their quanta-draining effects stack?

If they do, the AI is probably not smart enough to not play multiple Floodings.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: killsdazombies on April 09, 2010, 01:38:02 pm
its alot like night fall, the Ai will play about 6 of them and then have to wait another turn to use its dragon.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Dreadshadow on April 10, 2010, 04:30:44 am
I am not sure if the things i am gonna say were posted before by others, so i am sorry if i repeat something somebody else said.

1) AI has Unstable Gas casted. Cool!
AI casts a phoenix and THEN detonates Unstable Gas. LOL!
Ash stays as it is for 5 rounds, while AI has 45 or more  :fire . LMAO!


Gravity Nymph is down (i casted it). An Elite Otyugh is also casted.
AI has Owl's Eye, and targets Elite Otyugh twice, instead of the Nymph. :P :P :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: unionruler on April 10, 2010, 11:58:39 am
I have many rays of light. Rainbow casts gravity pull on a ray of light. Rainbow congeals the same ray of light.
I put out an electrocutor. Rainbow does not snipe for the turn, but instead steals my electrocutor and replaces it instantaneously with another eagle's eye.
I put out a light dragon. Firefly Queen snipes it with eagle's eye. I fractal the light dragon and put out a few more. Firefly Queen turns its attention to another light dragon, ignoring the one already damaged.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kurohami on April 10, 2010, 01:55:47 pm
I'd say we should at least have some intelligent advantage over the AI, because the half-gods and false gods have many other advantage over us. If Rainbow learns how to target wisely, our chance of winning is pretty nil, If obliterator's protected pulvy no longer targets bonewall over other stuff, then he is basically unbeatable from the point he got his pulvy protected. I would appreciate if the AI stays the way they are now. :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on April 10, 2010, 02:22:19 pm
Kurohami, it's obvious that when AI gets improved, some of the advantages AI has will be removed, or some other solution will be found to give players more advantage, so that fighting FG still makes sense.

I think chess playing algorithms could be a good example.
Imagine the time when programmers were just beginning to write chess algorithms and computers were still slow and had little memory.
Any chess player with a bit of experience could easily beat AI, because of their 'stupidity'.
So, to make chess games against AI more fun, let's allow AI to make two moves every time you move once, or give him more figures, or allow him to 'respawn' figures you take down with 50% probability... or something like that.
Now playing against AI is fun once again... but does that solve the problem? No!

The better solution is to improve AI, so that it can play as good as a living person. This happened in chess, so that now AI can beat the best chess players even without 'fake advantages'. You can even adjust how 'intelligent' AI is through changing some variables in it's algorithm, to make easier AIs that are fun to play against by inexperienced players.

Obviously it's a bit different with a collectible card game. First of all making a really good AI is really hard and takes time. Second thing is that False Gods having some advantages makes sense due to story settings (they are not elementals, but more powerful creatures, something similar to bosses in computer games).

My conclusion is that there should be some AI level where you can play an equal match (AI playing like a real living person, with no advantages like 200 hp, but with a reasonable artificial intelligence), and some uber-AI-level where not only he plays with intelligence, but also some advantages, so that experienced players can have some kind of challange similar to fighting bosses, but there could be some way to improve your chances so that these experienced players can actually win... it could be anything - from knowing your opponent beforehand, so that you can construct a couterdeck, to ability to fight multiple players against a single uber-AI... I guess time will show what Zanz can think of, to solve this problem, but clearly leaving AI as dumb as it is right now is not the best solution. (IMHO :P )
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: unionruler on April 11, 2010, 07:09:50 am
The better solution is to improve AI, so that it can play as good as a living person. This happened in chess, so that now AI can beat the best chess players even without 'fake advantages'.
Well chess engines can beat chess players even with disadvantages these days.
The problem is that with one centralized AI obviously it's rather impossible to program it to recognize some strategies conceived by human players. With chess engines they use opening books and they can assign values to make the computer more aggressive/positional etc but that is only because no matter what they start with the same chess pieces. In elements the AI has to play all sorts of decks.

I think the AI should not be able to play as good as a living person as you say, for that matter it will be some time before we can program it to do as such. Maybe there should be a different AI to play FG decks so that it can recognize some basic elements of anti-FG strategy, or better still create a whole new level 6 with a more intelligent AI and perhaps less fake advantages.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on April 11, 2010, 12:35:05 pm
Yes, I agree that improving the AI would need some changes like new AI levels, and Elements is much more complex than chess to program a good AI... but it's still possible. An artificial neural network could simply learn the deck and learn the decks opponent is using. On the other hand, in mini-max algorithm approach it's possible to evaluate probabilities too, so that you evaluate what cards your opponent might have based on his mark/pillars/some database of decks... and with those probabilities act accordingly, AI could also evaluate random effects like mutation, to check how much it would help him on average... and he could evaluate the probability of drawing a certain card next based on the cards he has already drawn and his knowledge of cards remaining... though it adds up to a huge task to calculate, so I wonder how much calculations would be reasonably possible to do without slowing the game... I'm not a flash programmer (I prefer Java), so I don't know if flash can calculate AI at a reasonable speed, but I guess it could be a problem... at least if it is as slow as it is with graphical effects.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bacchus on April 14, 2010, 06:02:31 pm
I was playing a lvl 5 and he used solar shield. de round after that he used holy light so the shield blocked the spell and casted it forward me. i did heal 10 hp. he did that 3 times :D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jmizzle7 on April 17, 2010, 08:11:23 am
I just got done playing against a top 50 deck that packed both RoL/Fractal and Unstable Gas. I know, I don't get it either. Anyway, here's what happened... it played an Unstable Gas, then a Ray of Light. The following turn, it cast Blessing on the Ray of Light. The next turn, the AI made the worst play in Elements history - play Fractal on Ray of Light, play about 6-7 Rays, then ignite Unstable Gas. Suffice it to say that I won that game... ;)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ashebrethafe on April 17, 2010, 01:08:47 pm
I was playing a lvl 5 and he used solar shield. de round after that he used holy light so the shield blocked the spell and casted it forward me. i did heal 10 hp. he did that 3 times :D
Isn't solar shield the one that just blocks 1 damage? I think you mean reflective/mirror shield.

I've also been healed by opponents with a spell-reflecting shield, and even gotten masteries because of it, but it seems this is new in v1.21. In the last version, I'd cast holy light on myself with a reflective shield in play, and the shield would say "reflect" -- but I'd still get the healing.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kent on April 19, 2010, 05:43:04 pm
Octane is in the habit of animating his Eagles *before* detonating his gasses in the same turn, thus unnecessarily damaging his own troops.

AI in top-50 killed one of my troops and *then* played a boneyard in the same turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xoff on April 19, 2010, 08:38:04 pm
I was low on hp, and my AI opponent played an unstable gas.
I stealed it to avoid death, and the next turn, i detonate it. But it was me who lost 20 hp -> dead ?!!

Is it a bug or a feature ? Change of ownership seems broken for unstable gas
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ghoststalker on April 19, 2010, 09:13:19 pm
eternal phoenix just used a fractal on an ash although he had also muultiple phoenixes out. then he played all (around 6) ashes. if he would have fractaled the phoenix, he would have beaten me in that turn (phoenix and ash have the same costs).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Wisemage on April 19, 2010, 09:27:25 pm
Xoff, he had a reflective shield out.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Boingo on April 19, 2010, 11:19:49 pm
AI5 drops plays Nymph's Tears and creates a Nymph Queen.  OK.

Then proceeds to convert 5 Sapphire Pillars and 1 Sapphire Tower to create an additional 6 Nymph Queens. (Actually, just before the Sapphire Tower it took down a Quantum Pillar to make an Golden Nymph.)  How many Nymph Queens do you need?  Or is it simply once you have a hammer, all the world is a nail?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kurohami on April 25, 2010, 08:24:53 pm
Did anyone notice that AIs now knows how to rewind their own creatures to avoid deck out?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Suuper on April 27, 2010, 04:27:38 am
There is a FG that uses lots of blessings, Ray of Lights, and Elite Deja Vus.

I was battling him, and here is what he did:
Play Ray of Light
Use Blessing on Ray of Light
Keep using ALL his blessings on Rays of Light

He should use them on Deja Vus that still have their ability. It seems that he just wants to use them on whatever creature has highest attack/HP
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on April 27, 2010, 06:49:52 pm
Likely Paradox, I think.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PhuzzY LogiK on April 29, 2010, 03:01:20 am
There is a FG that uses lots of blessings, Ray of Lights, and Elite Deja Vus.

I was battling him, and here is what he did:
Play Ray of Light
Use Blessing on Ray of Light
Keep using ALL his blessings on Rays of Light

He should use them on Deja Vus that still have their ability. It seems that he just wants to use them on whatever creature has highest attack/HP
I think this has been discussed before and it's not that simple.  Blessing is a situational card.  I HOPE that he plays Blessing on his Deja Vus, because after one Firestorm my Otys can eat them and he's wasted it.

Also, Paradox uses Twin Universe, so if he buffs one RoL up to 10/10 or so, he can copy that and suddenly have 2-6 of them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Marvaddin on April 30, 2010, 04:29:34 am
Did anyone notice that AIs now knows how to rewind their own creatures to avoid deck out?
Yeah, I have noticed. They also can eat their own scarabs.

Thanks, guys, now the game is even more harder and less fun. I can just assume you want make the FG impossible. Most of them already are, anyway, unless you are very luck.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: stop on April 30, 2010, 04:39:01 pm
Octane kept playing Animate Weapon on his Eagle's Eyes, even though his board was full of Malignant Cells. So there was no room left for the weapons... I would have killed one Cell with using Eagle's Eye and then play Animate Weapon. 

Also, he had a few Unstables Gasses lined up, but didn't ignite them. He could have killed me easily, but I guess he didn't want to kill his (my) Malignant Cells!

Anyway I beat him :D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: K667 on April 30, 2010, 04:44:17 pm
^That sounds like a pretty funny tactic vs. Octane.
I notice how even with Rewinding his own creatures, Osiris still decks out very often. I never beat him any other way.
Also it's true that beating FGs is not fun anymore, but that has been the case ever since they increased the price for pretty much the only good FG beating cards (Sundial, Oty, Eternity, Bond, Hourglass)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Wisemage on April 30, 2010, 04:53:00 pm
The only reason is decks out is because he draws 2 per turn, and onyl draws one when he has 7 cards in hand.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Suuper on April 30, 2010, 07:49:32 pm
Careful with that.

Make the computer too smart, and level 5 might be as hard as a level 6.....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bloodshadow on May 01, 2010, 12:49:28 am
Careful with that.

Make the computer too smart, and level 5 might be as hard as a level 6.....
I wouldn't worry too much. AI5 has random decks (144 combinations in total), and only 15% of their cards are upped. Combined with the not-always double draw, they make AI5 much, MUCH weaker than FGs.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: danieldubois on May 01, 2010, 01:43:55 am
Make the computer too smart, and level 5 might be as hard as a level 6
In an ideal world, they could make the AI smart enough that it didn't need such a ridiculous overwhelming advantage like double cards and triple mark.  If the AI improves to the extent you seem to fear, I would hope that the resource cheating would be reduced an appropriate amount.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bojengles77 on May 03, 2010, 03:52:30 am
recent AI improvements regarding Osiris have made him a significantly more difficult god, along with the addition of some cards to his deck. I know whoever designed him (can't remember right now) was a little upset when he/she realized that it was easy to deck osiris out. now that he can rewind his creatures and eat his scarabs for more damage, he's a scary god. But yeah, i've noticed that in cases like fire queen, she'll just keep creating more fireflies regardless of the fact that her creatures are maxed out. I've also noticed many cases where false gods will animate their weapons into a full board only to see them dissapear. i'm not very familiar with coding, but would it be difficult to change it so AI wouldn't animate weapons when the board is full or just change the card to "not work" when the board is full? kind of how you can't add another creature card once your board is full?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ItzSean on May 05, 2010, 01:54:00 pm
Idk if this has been discussed but what the hey, i just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth..

I was playing in the top 50 today and almost 1 outta every 3 rainbow decks that i played used 2 sundials at once. One time the AI used a sundial while the effects of phase shield was in play.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Marvaddin on May 06, 2010, 02:35:26 pm
Because of this these cursed rainbow decks are beatable by rush decks. If you correct the way they use the cards, we are mostly obligated to use rainbow (or gravity) to beat them too bad for the starters that farm for rare weapons.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Lordpants on May 06, 2010, 05:02:12 pm
There is an AI3 whos strategy is Armagio/Guardian Angel, but for some reason he never actually uses his Gravity Pull on his Armagio, making his deck unreasonably pathetic when compared to the other lvl 3's, just thought I would point that out.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: CB! on May 06, 2010, 08:00:57 pm
I was playing T50 today, and the AI was rewinding its own creatures to avoid deckout... nice...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bojengles77 on May 07, 2010, 03:17:27 am
I was playing T50 today, and the AI was rewinding its own creatures to avoid deckout... nice...
I almost cried when i saw this happen, when my rush deck fails i usually can survive long enough for a stupid AI to draw enough 5-card turns to deck out quickly.. no longer =(
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on May 07, 2010, 10:57:58 am
Luckily AI still almost never uses PA on eternity, so a single deflag in any deck with :fire should be enough... but I have to agree that those improvements to AI make me happy and sad ( :-\ ) at the same time. I like the fact that AI is more challenging, but on the other hand some fights became more boring after both of you get to the bottom of your decks and both of you heal more than deal damage.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jo_jo_the_joker on May 17, 2010, 01:58:24 am
i think how when the computer reverse tmes my mummy should be fixed
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ManOfManySpoons on May 24, 2010, 04:48:34 am
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but I played a Shrieker the same turn as a Werewolf, and it lobotomized my shrieker allowing me to get my +5/+5 on the Werewolf.  I feel like eliminating Lycanthrophy might be priority over eliminating Burrow, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: xxxdeathxxx on May 24, 2010, 05:19:29 am
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but I played a Shrieker the same turn as a Werewolf, and it lobotomized my shrieker allowing me to get my +5/+5 on the Werewolf.  I feel like eliminating Lycanthrophy might be priority over eliminating Burrow, but that's just my opinion.
The AI lobotomizes the creature w/ the highest attack
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PhuzzY LogiK on May 24, 2010, 07:27:06 am
The AI lobotomizes the creature w/ the highest attack
I don't believe this is correct.  I think it has a priority list of skills.  For example, it might target Steal/Destroy first, then Devour/Grow/Ablaze, then Burrow/etc.  Not saying that is the exact order it follows, but it will definitely target a 0 attack Oty over a 4 attack Firefly.

It may have lobo'd the Shrieker first because the AI values burrow.  In the short run, loboing the Shrieker allowed him to activate his Werewolf, but then both of the creatures could easily be killed.  If it would have lobo'd the Werewolf and the Shrieker burrowed, that's 4-5 damage a turn from a creature it can no longer target.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on May 24, 2010, 10:39:10 am
Yes, AI has different targeting algorithm for lobo than it has for damaging spells/abilities.

For example when I run pharaoh/scarab deck AI will always use damaging spells on scarabs, but if it can lobo a pharaoh it will.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jigga456 on May 28, 2010, 06:52:49 pm
AI upgrade recently? Decay no longer fractals my RoL. He used to all the time. Now he ignores them and fractals his own pests instead. He got smarter all of a sudden.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on May 31, 2010, 02:08:18 am
Please please please, if you're going to make the AI ridiculously hard, include a big chaos factor. What Scaredgirl suggested sounds okay, but will still make the AI difficult. Certain "bugs" like having the AI target your bonewall made FGs beatable.

I played a gravity shield against osiris, and he didn't devour his own scarabs to drop their health below 5. In fact, he spawned more scarabs O.o
My purple nymph leisurely (friggin' turtle shield...) made his scarabs work for me, and them my black one turned them to the dark side of the force. I targetted his strongest scarabs in order, and I noticed that when he finally could, he did devour the affected critters, which I think is a new feature, but he could have gotten around my gravity shield early on and killed me before I got my nymphs out (4 3-attack scarabs, the fifth having too high a defense after devouring, dealign 12 damage, would have killed me in 6 turns with my already lowered health).


Decay played ecclipse when I had 5 vampires out and he had no creatures. He didn't play anything for another several turns, and meanwhile my adrenalined vampires kicked his ass O.o

Not that I mind the AI giving me a hand, but that's just stupid.

I suggest that you make FGs easier without making them look stupid. Make them not do things some of the time rather than make stupid decisions.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on May 31, 2010, 03:33:32 am
Not that I mind the AI giving me a hand, but that's just stupid.

I suggest that you make FGs easier without making them look stupid. Make them not do things some of the time rather than make stupid decisions.
Good points.  I believe as the AI improves (which I imagine is a difficult process to code) that the False Gods will need to be changed, because many strategies involve using the poor or predictable AI to win.  If a top PVPer were able to use the FG decks then nobody would stand a chance against them.

Once, or if, the AI reaches that level, it will probably need to have its Mark reduced, as well as only drawing 1.5 a turn or having less card diversity.  I'm not sure what exactly would bring it in striking distance.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on May 31, 2010, 05:05:02 am
Once, or if, the AI reaches that level, it will probably need to have its Mark reduced, as well as only drawing 1.5 a turn or having less card diversity.  I'm not sure what exactly would bring it in striking distance.
How exactly do you propose that the FD draw one and a half cards? ^_^
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on May 31, 2010, 05:42:19 am
How exactly do you propose that the FD draw one and a half cards? ^_^
Just alternate: 2 cards on turn 1, 1 card on turn 2, 2 cards on turn 3, and so on...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: hello5666 on May 31, 2010, 09:28:20 am
I would like to see the AI to use Gravity Pull with cards that use that spell on themselfs.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on May 31, 2010, 12:49:23 pm
What do you mean?  Armagios use Gravity Pull at least.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on May 31, 2010, 02:31:10 pm
I think the best solution is to leave FGs as they are, keep improving the AI, and just adjust their decks. Make sure many of them have little to no perm control and/or creature control, and the ones that do can't dish out shitloads of damage by turn 3.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: didonko on June 01, 2010, 12:23:19 am
The AI is certainly improving. Osiris started rewinding his own creatures today when he dropped to around 4 cards. (and me being a retard forgot to chain the phase shield so he beat me)

Great work, although it makes us curse more  ::)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bojengles77 on June 01, 2010, 05:57:05 am
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd66285/Picture_2.png)

once again, AI failing with the use of sundials... no creatures on the field and he plays 3 of them.. *heaves a sigh*
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: miniwally on June 02, 2010, 08:29:50 am
I'd like to see a FG use a spell no your reflective shield occasionally as it it'll serve as some sort of human error (I know I've done it before) as long as the reflectng spell doesn't kill them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 03, 2010, 05:38:47 pm
AI has Pulveriser and Quantum Towers....
I have SoG and also a Dim.Shield
AI gets to 3 :gravity but leaves my shield/shard
AI gets to 6 :gravity and destroys my shield
This is a (kind of) helpful bug(?) that will cause the AI not to destroy my shield until it has 6 :gravity for some reason
if there is no shield (ran out or destroyed) it will again not destroy the Shard until it has 6 :gravity....
IDK why, but I would like to see this fixed (sadly) as a real player wouldn't hesitate to destroy to win (I manage to kill because of shard healing/shield stopping during a time when he could have won by destroying either), as I would like to see the game improve in the little ways as well as large ways. :)

~~EDIT~~ I think (trying to remeber off the top of my head here) that is it is upgraded (as in - weapon costs 2 :gravity for destroy) it does it first time though -- when it gets to 2 :gravity and not until it has 4,... the normal way -- so it may be a code thing?? possible? :/
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on June 03, 2010, 11:25:23 pm
AI sniped my light dragon until it had 3 hp, then it started sniping the next one I played (but please don't fix this ^_^)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PuppyChow on June 04, 2010, 12:24:30 am
AI has Pulveriser and Quantum Towers....
I have SoG and also a Dim.Shield
AI gets to 3 :gravity but leaves my shield/shard
AI gets to 6 :gravity and destroys my shield
This is a (kind of) helpful bug(?) that will cause the AI not to destroy my shield until it has 6 :gravity for some reason
if there is no shield (ran out or destroyed) it will again not destroy the Shard until it has 6 :gravity ....
IDK why, but I would like to see this fixed (sadly) as a real player wouldn't hesitate to destroy to win (I manage to kill because of shard healing/shield stopping during a time when he could have won by destroying either), as I would like to see the game improve in the little ways as well as large ways. :)

~~EDIT~~ I think (trying to remeber off the top of my head here) that is it is upgraded (as in - weapon costs 2 :gravity for destroy) it does it first time though -- when it gets to 2 :gravity and not until it has 4,... the normal way -- so it may be a code thing?? possible? :/
The AI decides whether or not to use a skill in a percent way. There's a topic somewhere with the exact percents, but basically the AI has a higher chance of using a skill if it has more quanta then the skill. (For a 2 cost skill, 4 quanta has a lower chance of activating it versus 6 quanta).

Edit: Found it! Formula for % to use a skill:( ( (quanta available) - (skill cost) ) / (quanta available) ) + .4 (then all to a percent).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonhuman on June 04, 2010, 01:49:38 am
is there anyway to prevent the enemy from playing black hole/ holy flash on the first turn when they went first?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on June 04, 2010, 08:33:35 am
is there anyway to prevent the enemy from playing black hole/ holy flash on the first turn when they went first?
The only ways I know:
1. Disconnect
2. Make sure he does not play a gravity/light deck
3. Be Zanz
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: -Samura- on June 05, 2010, 05:10:42 am
Hi,

have read the wiki elements page

http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/10

searching about the "Unburrow" AI behavior, here what i think it could be:

If

       creature has skill "Unburrow" (Antlion, Shrieker, Devourer, Elite Antlion, Elite Shrieker, Pest when burrowed)

   and

       (human player's current HP) - (human player's damage monitor) < 12

   and

       creature has Momentum
       or
       there is no Dimensional Shield, Phase Shield or Bonewall in the human player's side

   and

       there is no Sundial in play

   and

       creature power > 0 (because of the Antimater)

then unburrow it
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 05, 2010, 04:57:33 pm
Hi,
have read the wiki elements page
http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/User:Chriskang/Sandbox/10
searching about the "Unburrow" AI behavior, here what i think it could be:
If
       creature has skill "Unburrow" (Antlion, Shrieker, Devourer, Elite Antlion, Elite Shrieker, Pest when burrowed)
   and
       (human player's current HP) - (human player's damage monitor) < 12
   and
       creature has Momentum
       or
       there is no Dimensional Shield, Phase Shield or Bonewall in the human player's side
   and
       there is no Sundial in play
   and
       creature power > 0 (because of the Antimater)
then unburrow it
in yellow -- they still unburrowed even with Dim. Shield w/2 turns on it >_<  (life was 6 though)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on June 06, 2010, 01:10:35 am
AI upgrade recently? Decay no longer fractals my RoL. He used to all the time. Now he ignores them and fractals his own pests instead. He got smarter all of a sudden.
This happened <5 minutes ago:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd67036/RoL_against_decay_he_fracatale.png) (http://imageplay.net/)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bojengles77 on June 06, 2010, 08:17:47 am
AI sniped my light dragon until it had 3 hp, then it started sniping the next one I played (but please don't fix this ^_^)
That happens quite often in RoL fractal decks. I'm not sure what the AI function is that makes them do that, but i'd always play new dragons if i could at 3 hp when i was worried about my dragons dying. It was like the AI had ADHD.. "Hey!! A shiny new DRAGON!!"  you can't code ADHD into AI  though... or can you....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xinef on June 06, 2010, 12:26:44 pm
you can't code ADHD into AI  though... or can you....
... you can ;)

You know what? It would be funny if each false god had different personality reflected in his AI and his way of playing. Eg. Miracle would have a defensive personality concentrating on surviving the fight, so she might forget playing offensive cards/abilities, but never defensive ones. Ferox and Eternal Phoenix could be opposite... etc...

What do you think about it? As far as my programming knowledge lets me know, it might take quite a bit of time to code such a thing, but it could be interesting? Should I make a thread in "Game Suggestions and Feedback"?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on June 07, 2010, 02:52:54 am
That would be interesting. Gemini has used so many different strategies each time I play him O.o
Sometimes he fractals my light dragons (which is nice, usually), sometimes his phase recluses, and then in the last 3 games,  he'd momentum a phase spider, then spam PUs on it and kill me in one-two turns. In one of the games, he only had 3 PUs, so I barely survived by Loboing his momentumed spiders and healing (hope prevented damage), but then some games he draws a lobo in his starting hand, and it's an uphill battle to get enough damage out to kill him while keeping my hope high enough to avoid dying. I usually win with literally no leeway (one more shield and I'd be dead).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bojengles77 on June 07, 2010, 05:06:48 am
you can't code ADHD into AI  though... or can you....
... you can ;)

You know what? It would be funny if each false god had different personality reflected in his AI and his way of playing. Eg. Miracle would have a defensive personality concentrating on surviving the fight, so she might forget playing offensive cards/abilities, but never defensive ones. Ferox and Eternal Phoenix could be opposite... etc...

What do you think about it? As far as my programming knowledge lets me know, it might take quite a bit of time to code such a thing, but it could be interesting? Should I make a thread in "Game Suggestions and Feedback"?
I think, atleast for Zanz, the trouble wouldn't be worth the outcome. While i would agree that this would be  a great touch - it would be just a touch, not a main aspect of the game. I'm sure it wouldn't do any harm to start a thread about it though, if only to get an answer to its likelihood.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: MaxMilen on June 11, 2010, 12:36:11 pm
Let's see... I'll bet at least some of these behaviors have been mentioned, but if so, they bear repeating. Can't provide specific examples, unfortunately.

- Playing Spark/Ball Lightning when it can't possibly do any damage that turn.
- Overlaying its own shield/weapon, even during the same turn, with no good reason to do so. (Especially glaring when they use Enchant/Protect Artifact on a shield/weapon, then overlay it.)
- Stealing or destroying a colored pillar(s)/tower(s) when there is also a Quantum Pillar(s)/Tower(s) present.
- Not detonating Unstable Gas, even when it has the :fire quantum available and the opponent doesn't have a spell-reflecting shield up. (Oddly, Octane seems to be fine about this, but other AI's seem to forget sometimes...)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: miniwally on June 11, 2010, 02:33:23 pm
About the quantum tower it's not always best to destroy quantum towers as they could easily produce the wrong quanta type but the specialised tower always produces the correct quanta.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 11, 2010, 05:41:37 pm
many AIs of all different levels play 2 shields on 1 go >_< just because they have the quanta to do so
E.g. one plays a Bone wall directly followed by a diamond shield....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: MaxMilen on June 12, 2010, 09:00:06 pm
A suggestion:

As is, the AI will apparently only play Stone Skin/Granite Skin if it needs the HP to avoid losing on the following turn. Considering the cap, it seems to me that it should play the card if it needs the HP OR if it has enough quanta to gain 50 HP from it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: linkcat on June 13, 2010, 05:34:01 am
I'm still seeing half bloods not have their armagios use gravity pull when they're about to lose.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: 918273645 on June 13, 2010, 05:36:28 pm

65% chance of priority target 1
20% chance of priority target 2 (if available)
10% chance of priority target 3 (if available)
5% chance of doing nothing

Of course I pulled those numbers out of my ass but you get the idea.
 :)) :)) :)) I have had one hell of a day, and you made it just barable.  :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: linkcat on June 14, 2010, 08:52:55 pm
Half blood used holy light on himself when he had a reflective shield.

EDIT: Half blood played a minor vampire and blessed it. I sniped it. Opponent used holy light on the vampire in an attempt to heal it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on June 15, 2010, 03:57:41 am
Half blood used holy light on himself when he had a reflective shield.
I would like someone to make a video of this.  Or at the least make a before and after screenshot.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 15, 2010, 07:15:39 am
Half blood used holy light on himself when he had a reflective shield.
I would like someone to make a video of this.  Or at the least make a before and after screenshot.
when I farm T50 -- i think it's clp with the 60 card miracle/mass SoD/Stone Skin/SoG etc deck
He has a mirror shield in therewhich he normally get out early >_<
he also has 1 holy flash which he plays and ends up healing me 10 for the cost of nothing -- however that farm doesn't bite so I don't lose any life lol,, just can't beat the damned miracles (he plays 100 life + 6 SoD (220) + at least 3 Stone Skins @ 50 (370) then miracles back from 12 to 370 >_<)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: miniwally on June 15, 2010, 07:25:55 am
Is that chaoz's deck?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Dam Mael on June 15, 2010, 03:13:28 pm
Quinting ball of lightning/spark. Kinda LoL.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: MaxMilen on June 15, 2010, 04:15:24 pm
Playing Luciferin/Luciferase when it won't actually affect any creatures. Even funnier when it plays one (giving one creature Light) then immediately plays another one (doing nothing).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: binde22 on June 16, 2010, 12:43:27 pm
more than once ive seen the ais hand with precogs and he could have won if he had stopped like one creature but instead of using some cc he put out a dragon and other creatures thus me winning
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: finkel on June 18, 2010, 06:42:52 pm
Can we please change the computer AI so it stops killing rays of light before deciding what to use fractal on? That small little change has made decay impossible and eternal phoenix nearly so with Rol/fractal/hope. I'd appreciate it, thanks :S
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UsernameLife on June 21, 2010, 12:39:29 am
I've noticed the AI likes to use Nymph's Tears on water pillars, rather than quantum pillars. While this is pretty amusing, I don't think it's intended behavior.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd70388/AI.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd70388/AI)
In the image, the original queen is from hand, as well as the turquoise nymph.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Mastermind79 on June 21, 2010, 04:34:09 am
I've noticed the AI likes to use Nymph's Tears on water pillars, rather than quantum pillars. While this is pretty amusing, I don't think it's intended behavior.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd70388/AI.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd70388/AI)
In the image, the original queen is from hand, as well as the turquoise nymph.
The best part is when they tear up on all of their water pillars, preventing them from creating more nymphs. Or anything at all.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 23, 2010, 04:42:07 pm
yet more fails in AI (level 5) terms:

I have a devour fail:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd70742/Devour_Fail.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
where he devoured one of his Deja Vu's to buff his Scarab when he could have used the 3 :gravity to take my shield and win >_<

but I doubt he would have taken the shield even with 3 :gravity as the AI doesn't do that, they wait until they have double ability cost and I have said this many time throughout this thread: here is this proof (again)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd70743/Pulvy_Fail_again.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
he has 5 :gravity but will wait until he has 6 before he uses the 3 :gravity ability >_<

but I won so meh, maybe zanz put this in to give us an easier chance?

~~EDIT~~
even though he had the cost to destroy the shield and didn't... and I still had my shield up... he still unburrowed all of his cards, if I had a RoF he would'ave been screwed as the AI cannot distinguish between shields and what to do >_<
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ArcanisX on July 04, 2010, 04:07:20 pm
Can we please change the computer AI so it stops killing rays of light before deciding what to use fractal on? That small little change has made decay impossible and eternal phoenix nearly so with Rol/fractal/hope. I'd appreciate it, thanks :S
With all due respect, Fractaling opp's (e.g. player's) Rofls instead of own business creatures is hardly an intended behavior.

And yea, fractal gods are extra lame. Using Fractal when you already draw 2 per turn is akin to running over a dead cat just to see how flat can it get. I wonder where all the "game gets too difficult for casual players" logic from the first page of this thread went....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BluePriest on July 05, 2010, 03:21:48 am
Can we please change the computer AI so it stops killing rays of light before deciding what to use fractal on? That small little change has made decay impossible and eternal phoenix nearly so with Rol/fractal/hope. I'd appreciate it, thanks :S
With all due respect, Fractaling opp's (e.g. player's) Rofls instead of own business creatures is hardly an intended behavior.

And yea, fractal gods are extra lame. Using Fractal when you already draw 2 per turn is akin to running over a dead cat just to see how flat can it get. I wonder where all the "game gets too difficult for casual players" logic from the first page of this thread went....
Yeah, this thread isnt for making the AI weaker, its for making it stronger. The FG's however, are suppose to be hard, and the dividing line for casual vs hardcore. IMHO at least.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on July 10, 2010, 05:15:44 am
I just watched Destiny play a Fate Egg & Chaos Power it twice (on turn 2) and then Hatch it next turn, wasting the Chaos Powers completely.  Perhaps creatures with 'Hatch' need to be given a rule that sets them as 'never the alphacreature'?
Necro-reply because I searched for this particular AI oddity.  It looks like this has been fixed, however it sort of caused a new problem in that Destiny will not cast Chaos Power on a lobotomized Egg.  Its a minor issue, but sometimes it looks like she is just holding them in her hand when there are a few sterile eggs on the field that could use the boost.  Though, I don't think I've seen her fill up the board, so they're not hurting much just sitting there.  I just thought it was curious why she would avoid casting it on the "dud"s and I think I found my answer.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on July 10, 2010, 07:44:13 pm
'nother AI fail-cake

Playing some HB, can't remember exactly (was this morning), I have lobo out, they have 1 egg, 1 Deja Vu (splitted into 2) and a scarab....
My turn: I lobo the egg
AI: Plays another DeVu
Me: I lobo DeVu
AI: uses devour on the DeVu (1/1) that I lobod, not the fate egg (0/1) that was lobotomised, and also not any of the other DeVu's

AI fail cause, Alpha Card w/ability --> Lobo'd --> becomes 'useless' --> devoured
whereas it should be, Lowest Attk card --> no ability --> useless -> devour
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Darer on July 10, 2010, 10:41:50 pm
I think it was last Monday or something when I saw Paradox play a Deja Vu then TU it before spamming like 5 blessings on one of the Deja Vu. Order should be changed I think.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Mastermind79 on July 10, 2010, 11:42:33 pm
About shockwave: it should be changed to check if you can freeze before using it.

In a recent fight against Neptune, my flying titan was shockwaved 6 times then congealed. sorry, no screenshot.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: the dictator on July 11, 2010, 02:27:10 pm
Destiny just gave me something to laugh:

She plays a fate egg on her second turn.
The turn afterwards it hatches into a retrovirus.
She buffs the virus with blessing and chaos powers to 8|9
And the turn after that she uses it, to plague all the (zero) creatures I have.

First the AI should be learned not to buff (retro)viruses when they still have their ability.
And the AI should probably learn not to use it's retroviruses when their are no creatures to poison. (however that has been discussed before).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on July 11, 2010, 05:19:14 pm
And the AI should probably learn not to use it's retroviruses when their are no creatures to poison. (however that has been discussed before).
Definitely.  The potential benefit (2 bonewalls, 2 or 3 skeletons, a notch on the ol' Condor) is almost always worse than the waste of the Retrovirus.  So that AI characteristic should change regardless of the deck they have.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Takeno_ita on July 12, 2010, 12:25:44 pm
sometimes the ai cure itself with holy light even if is full health...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BadWolfskin on July 14, 2010, 02:18:32 pm
The AI just used the Eternity/Never-deck-out Combo on a Phoenix.  :o

Luckily I had a steal on my hand and the Eternity wasn't protected...
Nice work.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Stockholm on July 15, 2010, 10:27:27 pm
Isn't there a problem with the Top50 AI ? I've played a ton of times tonight, and my opponents never played anything but pillars and shards... Great for farming, but not exactly fun, right ?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Stockholm on July 16, 2010, 08:16:40 pm
Oh, right ! Thanks :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on July 21, 2010, 02:48:21 pm
Strangely enough, I just had a half-blood play Holy Light on his infected Devourer..

Edit: Might as well add what I reported in this thread: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9941.0.html
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: edunavas on July 21, 2010, 03:34:36 pm
This game could add another AI or form to play. Like you have to beat 3 different AI in a roll, these AIs would be like Half bloods (some up and unupgraded cars) with 100 HP.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on July 26, 2010, 02:55:07 am
AI will play Flying/Animate Weapon despite having no more creature slots on their board (23 Malignant Cells), thus making their weapon go.. poof.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nume on July 28, 2010, 06:52:14 pm
I just saw a really weird effect against Dream catcher. I am using the cc why bother deck and managed to fill most of his side with malignent cells, but he for some reason decided to use his purple nymph to anti matter all of them... I'll post a screenshot in a spoiler so you can see. I dont know what caused it but he literally AM'd every cell on his side. I still lost because I didnt get a destroyer till the last 6 cards... but yeah just wanted to show the bizarre behavior :P.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd76581/Dream_Catcher_weird_AI.bmp) (http://imageplay.net/)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nume on July 29, 2010, 03:41:13 am
Yeah but they dont cast other effects on them, like infection/rewind/congeal/devour. So yeah I really dont understand why they do cast AM but not any other effects that would actually be beneficial :P. Either way its something that doesnt work because it provides no benefit for them to AM it and it actually heals you. I have also noticed that osiris does use devour on a pharaoh which has been aflatoxin'd, but he doesnt devour the malignant cells.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on July 30, 2010, 05:12:32 am
This has probably been covered sometime before, but the AI seem to fractal opponent creatures if they have enough of that quanta. Unfortunately this AI3 thought it would be a very tricky move to fractal my chrysaora, since he had the water quanta to play them.
 He had no death pillars.
 (I laughed.)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: sSethia on August 05, 2010, 10:11:44 pm
The AI is getting smart. I thought I was finally going to beat Dark Matter.

His side was filled up with Malignant Cells from my Aflatoxin, and he had 3 Elite Otyughs, an Elite Armagio, and 2 Elite Chargers (the first one was anti-mattered). When it was his turn, he used an Otyugh to eat a Malignant cell and put a Gravity Nymph in his place. Then I quit.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: sbluen on August 17, 2010, 04:38:37 am
The AI doesn't know what to do with the new cards. It would rather bless otyughs than dune scorpions. It also antimatters the opponents deathstalkers, which does nothing to stop the poison.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: burne on August 17, 2010, 09:14:11 am
When you use the antimatter-liquid shadow combo on an AI creature, if he can, he heals the creature.
Futhermore, he never try to destroy this creature even if he got plenty of CC ability.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: the Sage on August 19, 2010, 02:33:30 pm
AI currently does not know how to deal with neurotoxin. An electrum hourglass AI will continue to draw and play at maximum speed, even though it's killing itself in the process.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nume on August 19, 2010, 03:03:28 pm
That is probably something that would be very hard to code though as it would have to have priority for every card as to whether its worth playing or not. I think it still works ok as is, and neurotoxin isnt exactly overpowered, it just works better on ai than humans.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: squishyone on August 19, 2010, 08:53:37 pm
The talk about the failings of the AI are honestly moot. It's all in the algorithm on the back end that the AI uses to determine it's next move. Now, writing the routine or routines for the AI to analyze the field and make the most appropriate decision couldn't be that hard since you can base it off of a chess AI. I think the most cumbersome thing would be to config a database that the AI populates and "learns" from so that it doesn't make the same mistake move over and over again.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: P-e-K on August 20, 2010, 10:32:08 am
this must have been reported already, but there's not list on the OP  :(

AI will make their weapon fly even when their field is full of creatures, losing it in the process.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on August 21, 2010, 01:03:28 pm
everyone wants to re-code the AI, but eventually we will end up with unbeatable FGs o_O
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Gyrodiot on August 21, 2010, 01:21:03 pm
everyone wants to re-code the AI, but eventually we will end up with unbeatable FGs o_O
Maybe, we will end up with FG who don't need anymore 3x Mark, or 200 HP, or mutiple card draws, or more than 60 cards in their decks, to give us a big challenge.

I'm quite sure that the main reason the FG are "above the rules" is compensation for AI's flaws. Smarter AI means less brute force, then more fun !  :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on August 21, 2010, 02:33:37 pm
everyone wants to re-code the AI, but eventually we will end up with unbeatable FGs o_O
Maybe, we will end up with FG who don't need anymore 3x Mark, or 200 HP, or mutiple card draws, or more than 60 cards in their decks, to give us a big challenge.

I'm quite sure that the main reason the FG are "above the rules" is compensation for AI's flaws. Smarter AI means less brute force, then more fun !  :)
if we do find that, people will just use that deck all the time? idk, counter decks, counter of the counter decks >_<
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: trozman on August 22, 2010, 03:09:20 pm
AI will antimatter and use aflatoxin on the same creature... rather than using antimatter on one and aflatoxin on the other so it gets both benefits.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on August 23, 2010, 06:30:17 pm
yer, there has to be something in the code, as the AI ALWAYS spams 1 card with buffs/etc instead of equally sharing them
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: kobisjeruk on August 24, 2010, 08:12:36 am
so um, the oracle blabs about oblitz being my next opp so i use this AM+LS.dec to fight him and gave me Chrys as my pet lol (MVP<3)

this is how it look like at the end of the fight :-

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd81956/soreloser.png)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Sengiratolom on August 24, 2010, 10:17:00 am
Eternal Pheonix just used Fractal on his upped phoenix instead of the antimattered dragon, even though he had enough quanta to summon 5 dragons, which would have killed me as i had 65 hp and a permafrost shield up, the 7 extra phoenixes only did 14 extra damage
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bloodshadow on August 24, 2010, 10:52:47 pm
Eternal Pheonix just used Fractal on his upped phoenix instead of the antimattered dragon, even though he had enough quanta to summon 5 dragons, which would have killed me as i had 65 hp and a permafrost shield up, the 7 extra phoenixes only did 14 extra damage
I saw Eternal Phoenix fractal its Brimstone Eater instead of Minor Phoenix.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on August 25, 2010, 02:18:24 am
I saw Eternal Phoenix fractal its Brimstone Eater instead of Minor Phoenix.
Unless zanz has changed the FGs, EP doesn't have Brimstone Eaters.  Could it have been your pet?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bloodshadow on August 25, 2010, 03:14:59 am
Unless zanz has changed the FGs, EP doesn't have Brimstone Eaters.  Could it have been your pet?
Huh? Wait... Well, it was in the trainer... And pets are never upgraded...

OK, maybe my memory was glitched. It could have been a Fractal Phoenix deck in T50 or something. But still, it fractal'd its Brimstone Eater instead of a Minor Phoenix.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on August 25, 2010, 03:32:15 am
I saw an AI use Holy Light or Flash of Light when he had 100hp
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Hodari on August 25, 2010, 04:38:52 am
AI currently does not know how to deal with neurotoxin. An electrum hourglass AI will continue to draw and play at maximum speed, even though it's killing itself in the process.
I also had the AI play a dune scorpion today...immediately followed by quintessence on it...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: windraker on September 02, 2010, 06:39:00 pm
The AI always Shockwaves my creatures, THEN Congeals them. Should freeze them first, then shockwave.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ifailgood on September 03, 2010, 11:58:34 pm
AI antimattered one of my creatures then proceeds to kill it. O_o

Never happened again so far.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on September 04, 2010, 09:36:16 am
playing in T50 today, AI played a Deja Vu, then adrenalined and momentumed it
next turn AI plays another Deja Vu,
then on it's 3rd turn makes a copy of the Deja Vu without the adrenaline or momentum??!!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: thekillergame on September 04, 2010, 08:59:03 pm
i was playing against gemini today and it TU an 7/2 phase recluse instead of an 8/3 phase recluse
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: catalyzeme on September 04, 2010, 10:24:24 pm
Today in T50 AI played a Life Nymph. Next turn, AI used Epinephrine on the Life Nymph (cost 3) instead of the Life Nymph's ability (cost 2) on itself. Then it played a Cockatrice, and ended the turn, not using the Life Nymph's ability.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: tyedyeguy on September 05, 2010, 06:46:41 pm
just played a t50 game where the computer stopped using Mindgate when he got to 5 cards.  Used eternitity successfully (used up my steals) to force me to card out, but wouldn't use Mindgate for the extra cards from my deck.  He just sat there for 10 rounds reversing his skelly, which was effective, but with two mindgates the AI could have drawn from my deck numerous times - and had a LOT of mana to cast the cards with.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on September 08, 2010, 07:08:08 am
Basic AI stupidity here.
I had just fire stormed incarnate (I think-one of the easier death FGs), with a bone yard, and he plays a Nightfall without any creatures on his side, but many skeletons on mine, enabling me to double my damage and win the game.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: PlayerOa on September 08, 2010, 02:30:38 pm
Destiny:

First turn: Fate egg.
Second turn: hatch (Mummy), Chaos Power x2.
Third turn: Rewind 11-9 Mummy... :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Hodari on September 09, 2010, 03:40:50 am
I had Seism down to 8 hp today but unfortunately had 0 cards left in my deck, so I'd lose at the start of my next turn before I could finish him off, except...he played Rewind on one of my creatures.  Next turn, I drew that, Miracle, Improved Heal, and attack for the mastery win  :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on September 09, 2010, 06:41:04 am
I had Seism down to 8 hp today but unfortunately had 0 cards left in my deck, so I'd lose at the start of my next turn before I could finish him off, except...he played Rewind on one of my creatures.  Next turn, I drew that, Miracle, Improved Heal, and attack for the mastery win  :)
HA! that's freaking sweet XD
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Karak on September 17, 2010, 09:33:30 pm
Osiris playing strange... i was using a ccyb with adds, i played a jade shield and his momentum scarabs started to eat each other and i was near to lose due to momentum... then i played a perma and scarabs stopped to eat and grow (easy win after that). It's just a bit strange Osiris stopped using a useful strategy when he saw permafrost... Probably i'd have lost that match...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Mattman27007 on September 18, 2010, 06:03:09 am
i havnt read the whole post so not sure if someones mentioned this but a mono water deck i was versing in t50 had steam machines and arctic squids and it chose to use shard of readiness on arctic squid presumably because it cost more but then it had almost no damage output and i won easily if that can be fixed it would make a few AI decks better.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: trisk22 on September 19, 2010, 08:26:43 pm
I am using rol/hope against incarn, and he uses 2 parasites to infect one ray of light by 2 instead of infecting 2 by  one.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bird man on September 19, 2010, 08:38:56 pm
part of my strategy includes lots of antimatters so that I can negate any big hitters. what surprised me at first is that when I "antimattered" a creature, the opponent doesn't try to kill it to stop it from healing me. If it were to get rid of its own creature, the other ones would have finished me off many times
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: trisk22 on September 21, 2010, 09:03:55 pm
I was facing incarn, and he plagued me with a virus before I had any creatures on the field.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on September 23, 2010, 05:19:03 am
I was facing the Elder with aether/water and for no reason he fractaled my rustler 0.o
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on September 23, 2010, 07:39:12 am
I was facing incarn, and he plagued me with a virus before I had any creatures on the field.
Not necessarily a bug. He/she could have been purpousely building his bonewall and generating new, stronger skeletons.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: lava golem on September 23, 2010, 09:20:55 am
i was playing against gemini today and it TU an 7/2 phase recluse instead of an 8/3 phase recluse
You were probably playing with RoL/Hope, lobo'd the momentumed one (8/3) then ended your turn (something like that) then the AI TUs the 7/2 phase recluse because that one has a skill, it does it for no apparent reason, Gemini can't even use web!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nume on September 23, 2010, 10:29:11 pm
It does it because any skill adds 3 points to a targets worth in the AI's eyes. It is similar to why it will TU you're 7/1 destroyer or even 3/7 fire queen over his own creatures (I dont think momentum actually counts as a skill because he will tu a 7/1 destroyer over a 8/3 spider with momentum).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Gerontius on September 25, 2010, 07:24:55 pm
Eternal Pheonix just used Fractal on his upped phoenix instead of the antimattered dragon, even though he had enough quanta to summon 5 dragons, which would have killed me as i had 65 hp and a permafrost shield up, the 7 extra phoenixes only did 14 extra damage
I've seen something like this - it was nearing the end of a long game so the AI had 100 water quanta, but chose to fractal a squid rather than an ice dragon. It fractaled the dragon later, but only after I rain of fired the board and killed all its squids.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Boingo on September 25, 2010, 09:49:48 pm
Trainer AI has no idea what to do with a voodoo doll deck in the T50--it played 3 basilisk blood and 1 gravity pull on my cards:

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd90743/VDfail.png)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on September 26, 2010, 01:21:20 am
AI gravity pulled my creature then next turn used Basilisk Blood on it.
(Actually makes sense, sorry. I didn't know AI only had voodoos for attack.)


Couple Turns later: Used 4 different gravity pulls on the same destroyer. Not kidding.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on September 26, 2010, 02:33:08 am
Wow. So I was playing a CPU in T50 that had gotten both Purple and Black Nymphs out. Sure enough, it used Black Nymph's Liquid Shadow skill on its Purple Nymph instead of my Lava Destroyers. Suffice to say, I won the match because of this.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Immolation on October 02, 2010, 04:03:01 pm
One of the ones I noticed is that when you use adrenaline on say, a horned frog, it would rather target a cockatrice. Because to the AI, the cockatrice has a bigger attack.

I used this deck to figure that out.

Code: [Select]
5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c8 5c8 7ad 7ad 7aj 7ak 7b0


Another bug is where the yellow bar (Which shows the damage that will happen after your turn) on the green bar (Which is the health, obviously) is not affected by adrenaline. If you use adrenaline on a creature with 3 attack points, it deals 3 damage 4 times (12 damage). The yellow bar only notices the normal attack points of the horned frog. It only sees the 3 attack points the horned frog has.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on October 02, 2010, 06:17:14 pm
The AI1 just plagued 19 voodoo dolls ><
IDIOT AI
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd92724/Untitled.jpg)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nume on October 03, 2010, 05:28:46 am
Another bug is where the yellow bar (Which shows the damage that will happen after your turn) on the green bar (Which is the health, obviously) is not affected by adrenaline. If you use adrenaline on a creature with 3 attack points, it deals 3 damage 4 times (12 damage). The yellow bar only notices the normal attack points of the horned frog. It only sees the 3 attack points the horned frog has.
I dont think this is a bug. Adrenaline's damage is supposed to be a mystery depending on the creature it uses. The ai can only see the creatures attack, it doesnt know how it will effect every creature (I know it can know but I'm just saying I dont think its supposed to :P) if that makes any sense at all...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on October 03, 2010, 05:44:05 am
I just realized.
How old IS this thread?
Is chriskang even working on improving AI using this as a reference anymore?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on October 03, 2010, 05:52:34 am
I just realized.
How old IS this thread?
Is chriskang even working on improving AI using this as a reference anymore?
It's old.

chriskang doesn't work on it anymore, but I'm pretty sure zanz looks at this thread.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on October 03, 2010, 09:41:46 am
December '09. chris vanished a good while back. We could certainly use someone to fill the gap.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on October 03, 2010, 10:12:32 am
AI5 (Masra) goes crazy gravity pulling and basilisk blooding your voodoo dolls. Lucky me because I hadn't drawn my own, and only needed my parralel universes (I had 4 in hand :P) EM, 1 gravity force and 1 pulveriser for me :D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deepdown on October 05, 2010, 04:03:12 pm
Osiris playing strange... i was using a ccyb with adds, i played a jade shield and his momentum scarabs started to eat each other and i was near to lose due to momentum... then i played a perma and scarabs stopped to eat and grow (easy win after that). It's just a bit strange Osiris stopped using a useful strategy when he saw permafrost... Probably i'd have lost that match...
I think that the AI is eating while it sense it's board is full. Then it stops eating because some it's creatures got frozen. The AI checks his field and sense the frozen slots as empty -> stops eating, and using pharaoh skill to generate more. Frozen slots should have the highest eating priority, therefore permafrost wouldn't be an autowin with 4-5 SoG's.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on October 15, 2010, 04:31:46 pm
Geez. AI played TU on my Lava Destroyers, then played Chaos Power on its Destroyers. Should be well known, since it plays cards from top to bottom.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: kurathedog on October 16, 2010, 06:34:41 am
Was playing orisis. He had a full board (as always).
Looking at his quanta, his time was going -2 even though nothing else was happening

Seems like he was making scarabs on a full board.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: andrebo on October 16, 2010, 06:50:57 am
dunno if it has been said, but:

Incarnate has 2 bloodsuckers and a retrovirus on the table against my 6-7 rays, but instead of infecting all by sacrificing his retrovirus, he infects the same ray two times AND sacrifices his retrovirus afterwards. kinda stupid :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: kri on October 17, 2010, 12:37:22 am
Fire Queen plays animate weapon on her eagles eye on a full board - destroying her on weapon
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on October 17, 2010, 08:02:27 pm
AI ate my physalia, then played lightning on my spark. fail?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: agentflare on October 17, 2010, 10:00:45 pm
AI cast rage potion on a phoenix then it used rebirth on the phoenix, ridding it of the attack gain. Total fail and waste of cards and quanta!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ddevans96 on October 18, 2010, 12:19:01 am
This entire thread is making me lol. Fail AI is so hilarious :))

The AI3 just plagued 19 voodoo dolls ><
IDIOT AI
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd92724/Untitled.jpg)
Do you mind if I put this in my signature?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on October 18, 2010, 12:43:28 am
This entire thread is making me lol. Fail AI is so hilarious :))

The AI3 just plagued 19 voodoo dolls ><
IDIOT AI
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd92724/Untitled.jpg)
Do you mind if I put this in my signature?
Go ahead xD.
And just realized that I failed, I was doing that with AI1, not AI3 cause I didn't think to add phase shields yet xD.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: trisk22 on October 22, 2010, 12:12:38 pm
AI uses flying wep when he has no creature slots left
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on October 22, 2010, 12:24:19 pm
I had 3 hp and was 1 turn from taking down Fire ueen. She had 1 fire and 1 fire lance. I had a bonewall. She bolted my druid, giving me the win. AIs need to recognise when you can be bolted to death with what they have in their hand.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on October 22, 2010, 11:03:02 pm
i had a pheonix and fire spirit with 6 atak and the AI kiled my pheonix and i reborned the pheonix. totl fail :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ak65ala on October 27, 2010, 02:21:46 pm
This might have been brought up (however, didn't see it when I searched).  The AI likes to burrow their creatures when they can, but they do not un-burrow to finish me off sometimes.

(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd99659/comp_error_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd99659/comp_error)

If he would have un-burrowed even one, I would have died. If he would have kept one un-burrowed for one turn longer, I would have died. 
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: kurathedog on October 27, 2010, 03:10:50 pm
The code unburrows when its enemy has 12 or less green bar left (health-damage)
It should time it for the kill
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ak65ala on October 27, 2010, 04:10:06 pm
The code unburrows when its enemy has 12 or less green bar left (health-damage)
It should time it for the kill
Weird... well that obviously did not happen in the game I have shown... I had 2 left in my green bar, yet he did not un-burrow and let me have a turn with that 2 Hp left.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on October 28, 2010, 05:48:46 pm
The code unburrows when its enemy has 12 or less green bar left (health-damage)
It should time it for the kill
Weird... well that obviously did not happen in the game I have shown... I had 2 left in my green bar, yet he did not un-burrow and let me have a turn with that 2 Hp left.
if the AI had 2 shriekers out, 1 burrowed and one played at the start of the last turn, then if I was under 12 HP, it will unburrow the burrowed one as it is coded to do so when I go under 12 HP, but it will also then burrow the unburrowed one as it thinks it is already burrowed, in effect it switches them around....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: olop4444 on October 29, 2010, 12:29:13 am
AI fractals my chrysoras (0/2) and plays them without any death quanta whatsoever.

Also, one AI played arsenic and in the same turn replaced it with a Trident.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on October 29, 2010, 01:49:21 pm
AI fractals my chrysoras (0/2) and plays them without any death quanta whatsoever.
AIs are good at that

AI logic
chrysaora>blue crawler. Must fractal chrysaoara.

Player logic
chrysaora>blue crawler - but I can't use the ability that makes chrysaora better. Must fractal crawler
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Hotshot2k4 on October 29, 2010, 04:18:31 pm
Looks like this one was mentioned almost a year ago, but nothing's been done about it until now. AI will deja vu an antimatter'd creature (usually a deja vu).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Avenger on November 02, 2010, 10:59:45 am
Both the burrow and deja vu happen because the AI never considers the consequences.
It works by the 'logic': if i can do it, lets do it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: olop4444 on November 04, 2010, 12:59:34 am
Scenario:
AI's move
AI: vampire stilleto, 20 hp, will die next turn to 21 poison damage
Me: arsenic, 34 hp, will die in 2 turns to AI's creatures.

He steals the arsenic, causing him to lose the vampire stilleto. He dies on my turn. If he hadn't stolen the arsenic, he would've kept the stilleto, lived, and won.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on November 04, 2010, 05:02:03 pm
Scenario:
AI's move
AI: vampire stilleto, 20 hp, will die next turn to 21 poison damage
Me: arsenic, 34 hp, will die in 2 turns to AI's creatures.

He steals the arsenic, causing him to lose the vampire stilleto. He dies on my turn. If he hadn't stolen the arsenic, he would've kept the stilleto, lived, and won.
Common issue. They assume that it hurts only you if they steal a weapon. They also see weapons in an order, rather than situational.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ArtCrusade on November 05, 2010, 12:50:15 pm
AI3 uses Reverse Time like a total noob. I had both a Frog and a Cockatrice both with Adrenaline and not upgraded and he targeted the Cockatrice. The AI should calculate the damage creatures'll do and choose the best target!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: agentflare on November 07, 2010, 01:04:45 pm
AI3 uses Reverse Time like a total noob. I had both a Frog and a Cockatrice both with Adrenaline and not upgraded and he targeted the Cockatrice. The AI should calculate the damage creatures'll do and choose the best target!
Well actually, Cockatrices cost more  :life quanta, so that's why they target the cockatrice. And also, see the yellow bar? That doesn't  take adrenaline into account.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: lava golem on November 07, 2010, 02:13:46 pm
AI3 uses Reverse Time like a total noob. I had both a Frog and a Cockatrice both with Adrenaline and not upgraded and he targeted the Cockatrice. The AI should calculate the damage creatures'll do and choose the best target!
Well actually, Cockatrices cost more  :life quanta, so that's why they target the cockatrice. And also, see the yellow bar? That doesn't  take adrenaline into account.
agreed with agent flare, although I think the AI should still take adrenaline into account.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ArtCrusade on November 07, 2010, 07:36:56 pm
Well, you kind of pointed another weakness of Elements out: The yellow bar. The yellow bar should tell me how much damage I am going to receive and how much damage I am going to deal to my opponent, but Adrenaline is taken out of the calculation. It's just stupid that it doesn't.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Wynden on November 09, 2010, 02:54:40 am
Freeze before shockwave.
When I was facing Neptune, he Shockwaved my Oty, Congealed it, then Re-shockwaved it. What a waste of a shockwave.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: olop4444 on November 09, 2010, 02:58:41 am
AI played a vulture AFTER he killed my golem with a fire bolt, so the vulture didn't get its boost.

AI healed itself with Holy Light when it already had full HP.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: geekz_always_win on November 09, 2010, 03:28:24 am
Dream Catcher antimattering malignant cells should be on here somewhere, sorry if it's already been mentioned.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nume on November 09, 2010, 05:30:44 am
It has, but so has most of the things people add to this thread :P. All the improvements could easily fit on one page if there were no repeats heh (not saying I dont see why there are repeats, just that its funny :P).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deepdown on November 15, 2010, 06:56:18 pm
About AI's Cremation-Phoenix habits:

Think its a well known thing that the AI won't cremate his MP's, instead it will wait for "lesser" targets. I accidentaly lobo'd a MP, and the AI cremated it immediatly. Beacuse the MP has lost the "phoenix" ability it became a "lesser", crematable target, which is exactly opposite what the MP was created for.
*guck frammary*
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on November 20, 2010, 07:27:55 pm
the com used a Maxwell's Demon :entropy to kil my fenix wen i had a boneyard and i got anothr skeleton an i revivd the fenix. fail  :))
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on November 20, 2010, 08:05:51 pm
the com used a Maxwell's Demon :entropy to kil my fenix wen i had a boneyard and i got anothr skeleton an i revivd the fenix. fail  :))
Makes sense. It slows you down, as you have to wait a turn to revive your phoenix. You lose 7 damage, Gain 1. By the time the damage from cells makes up for what you lost the game will likely be over.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: lolicjj on November 21, 2010, 11:42:18 am
Killed my phoenix when i have a phoenix and a crimson dragon (with ice bolt)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chronophasic on November 22, 2010, 08:23:45 am
Two stupid moves I have seen the computer make lately:

Playing its own weapon just before stealing mine.
Playing Prot Artifact on a sundial.

Ssorry if these are already reported. I didn't see them listed)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: CrazyJay94 on November 26, 2010, 05:13:20 pm
Something that should be fixed imo is that the AI needs to understand when he as a dragon and an arctic squid out. and like 50 water quanta that he should fractal the dragon. especially when i dont have any creatures out.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: tyedyeguy on November 29, 2010, 02:53:07 am
don't know if this has been posted, and don't know if it's even going to be addressed.....but I had 4 cards left against an L5...he just played wings against my fractal frog horde, nullifying them.  By waiting, I would deck out, AI wins.  Next turn he plays thorn shield, my frogs kill him, and I win.

How is thorn shield, blocking 1 damage and possibly poisoning my frogs, better than wings which cancels all but flying creatures, and I had none out?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 03, 2010, 05:26:51 pm
Ai should be updated on how Voodoo Doll can be used. I mean, T50 Voodoo Dolls decks are easily farmable and pose no threat at all...

Things like Gravity Pull the Doll, PU it when damaged, even use Basilisk on it when opponent has a weapon.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BC on December 09, 2010, 07:49:37 pm
My other account was fighting my t50 AI, and found out that AI has an insatiable need to use black hole whenever possible (unless there are less than 4 :gravity remaining) even when there is no quanta to take:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/xavq6c.png)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on December 09, 2010, 08:10:20 pm
BatCountry has just found the ultimate definition of AI fail.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on December 09, 2010, 09:46:48 pm
BatCountry has just found the ultimate definition of AI fail.
This just proves that in the absence of any discernible matter, Black holes continue to suck.  :))
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on December 09, 2010, 11:04:00 pm
i just fought an AI an he had a forest sprit out an i had a fire shield an he had 1 :water but he didnt use it an his forest spirit burned
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: lokiburn4 on December 10, 2010, 04:29:26 pm
BatCountry has just found the ultimate definition of AI fail.
This just proves that in the absence of any discernible matter, Black holes continue to suck.  :))
lol!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: nerd1 on December 10, 2010, 09:17:57 pm
ai using voodoo doll decks on T50.
its basically a money farm deck, isn't it  ;D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on December 10, 2010, 10:52:24 pm
ai using voodoo doll decks on T50.
its basically a money farm deck, isn't it  ;D
Not always. They often TU your creature then kill/BB them all, then Rage Elixers their voodoos. Depending on the draw they can beat the majority of rush decks with ridiculous ease.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on December 10, 2010, 11:20:39 pm
The AI really has to learn not to Holy Flash itself at full hp.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kakerlake on December 10, 2010, 11:53:24 pm
Don't know if it has been said already (&me@2lazy2read27pp)

Incarnate and Morte like to sacrifice the Retrovirus for nothing.
Me @ no creatures. Incarnate&Morte @ no shield, no boneyard, no vultures. Sacrifices Retrovirus.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd184/insektenplage/Incarnate1.png)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd184/insektenplage/Incarnate2.png)
In case you might ask: screens have been made a minute ago in the trainer to test if this is still true.
 - and it is.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on December 12, 2010, 08:00:11 pm
i had a fire spirit, 2 skeletons, an a bunch o milignant cels, an he sacrificed his virus 2 poison 1 o my skeletons  :))
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ant-n-ero on December 12, 2010, 09:07:40 pm
AI uses more than 1 LS on a black dragon even when it still has the 'Vampire' ability....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on December 12, 2010, 09:21:55 pm
the  :fire AI im fightin right now (i had a fir dragon an only that cretur) used 2 plagues wen he had ful health an then kild him with a fir bolt on the sam turn
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on December 16, 2010, 03:17:56 am
the AI puld out a pulverizer but didnt use it on my quantum pilars  :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on December 17, 2010, 02:37:28 am
the AI had a Otyugo (or whatevr) an kept devourin my phenix an i had a gravyard
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: smuglapse on December 17, 2010, 02:57:09 am
AI3 uses Reverse Time like a total noob. I had both a Frog and a Cockatrice both with Adrenaline and not upgraded and he targeted the Cockatrice. The AI should calculate the damage creatures'll do and choose the best target!
Well actually, Cockatrices cost more  :life quanta, so that's why they target the cockatrice. And also, see the yellow bar? That doesn't  take adrenaline into account.
agreed with agent flare, although I think the AI should still take adrenaline into account.
I just witnessed the AI rewinding a Frog over a Cockatrice and neither had adrenaline or any other buff.  A Cockatrice costs more and is harder to kill, so it should have been the one the AI reversed.  Apparently, it just picks the first creature.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: grindpower on December 21, 2010, 05:33:08 pm
AI3 uses gravity pull on my creatures and not it's voodoo doll.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: mrwackjob1 on December 30, 2010, 05:59:07 am
Might be nice if the AI didn't play multiple Sundials each turn, unless they have a slow deck.

Or if they didn't use things like Dive when their opponent has an 'active' sundial.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: pterror09 on December 30, 2010, 08:53:06 pm
I had one AI3 use Butterfly Effect on a Voodoo Doll, then immediately used Liquid Shadow on the same Voodoo Doll...

In my head, I went from "good idea" to "WTF?!"
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: puppy33333 on December 31, 2010, 04:30:36 am
There was a time where the AI would rather use antimatter on my elite firefly than his already antimattered devonian dragon (or something. it was a high attack creature)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: nerd1 on December 31, 2010, 11:00:27 pm
after paradox fills his field, if he has any un-split deja-vus, he still tries to use their effects, even though they don't do anything.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: 7wavemaster on January 01, 2011, 08:55:41 am
Ai has dune scorp and deja vu one field(this is ai3) and he uses blessing on deja vu instead of scorp.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: nerd1 on January 01, 2011, 06:31:24 pm
Ai has dune scorp and deja vu one field(this is ai3) and he uses blessing on deja vu instead of scorp.
that isnt really a glitch, as in the short term that does more damage
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 01, 2011, 09:00:42 pm
Yes, but I think that AI3 should be remanaged. I mean, it's tactically sound to buff a Deja Vu BEFORE it splitting. It's not good to buff it right AFTER that. Also, if you have two Dune Scorpions 0/1, and 2 Blessings, you should bless the scorpions once each. He doesn't - he buffs twice the same Scorpion.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: 18237 on January 02, 2011, 08:01:32 am
after paradox fills his field, if he has any un-split deja-vus, he still tries to use their effects, even though they don't do anything.
There was a similar situation with an ai5 who nymph teared his water pillars then used the nymph queen to fill his whole field with nymphs. even when there were no creature slots left he still kept using ability and it took up quanta even though it did nothing.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Assassine on January 02, 2011, 12:49:56 pm
Often times when i fight any AI3 with spark, i see them play it when i have a phase shield up, doing nothing at all. Also, those sparks have uses in most decks (vultures / graveyards / soulcatchers / immolations) but the ai just plays all their sparks asap. Had an ai play some pillars and 3 sparks, then play two vultures the next turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: cambovenzi on January 02, 2011, 01:53:39 pm
I was facing life entropy AI3.

He casted a Discord(weapon) right on top of a Life staff he just cast.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: unknown89089 on January 04, 2011, 01:19:27 am
AIs also still use Deja Vu even if you Anti-matter the creature. Just saying.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Sodomir on January 04, 2011, 07:51:57 pm
The Ai antimatters her own Malignant cell without a ground.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on January 04, 2011, 07:59:52 pm
There is logic behind all decisions, even if it's not rational. AI sees Cells as a threat that grows, and will attempt to defuse them with Antimatter. Unfortunately they do not, instead, destroy them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: 18237 on January 05, 2011, 09:32:23 am
When my pvp opponent ragequited the ai played dune scorp, adrenalined it and then quinted it even though it had 0 atk.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Colloray on January 06, 2011, 01:28:41 am
for some reason my phenox died from poison after the ai used pandemonium. D:
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on January 06, 2011, 01:35:55 am
Pandemonium can induce Infection, just like Chaos Seed. It can also Lobotomize. If you mean it died completely, perhaps a past Pandemonium Lobotomized it.
Nonetheless, this is the wrong thread for such reports, if you thought it was a bug.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: EvaRia on January 06, 2011, 04:08:25 pm
I heard say that if the AI has enough quanta, it will play more than one Silence in a turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on January 06, 2011, 04:14:39 pm
I heard say that if the AI has enough quanta, it will play more than one Silence in a turn.
Experienced it myself.

4 silences in one turn actually turned out to save me from death, rather than 4 turns of doing nothing.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kakerlake on January 07, 2011, 11:17:21 pm
AI targets poisoned Scarabs with low health but more attack before other Scarabs to rewind with Eternity.
Pretty nice of the AI to poison my Scarab and heal it in the next turn xD
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Belthazar666 on January 08, 2011, 12:29:16 am
AI will dive a creature even if they can't do anything with it. As in, if Sundial is in play, or Bone Wall.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 10, 2011, 11:23:32 am
Osiris' AI needs a bit of improvement. He must throw lobo'd Pharaohs... or Rewind them. I will hate him then, but it needs to be done.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: silux on January 10, 2011, 04:25:15 pm
The AI still tends to play 5 sundials together and that is good.

My suggest is to make the AI not to play more than 2 sundials at turn.

Play sundial script
Number of card sundial in play<2?
If yes=play sundial card
Otherwise=not to play sundial card

Also playing a sundial per turn would be silly since most sundial carrying deck are t50s and many anti-t50 decks have strong Permanent control.So plying a sundial per turn would be the same as playing no sundial!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: rowcla on January 11, 2011, 07:15:23 pm
Dunno if these were already mentioned:

1. The ai is using retrovirus ability all the time, even when there is no potential casualty.
2. the ai is using the dissipation field/shield too early, it is easily used against it.
their using shrodingers cat's ability uselessly as well, ive found that this can be taken advantage of easily by keeping it alive even if i have an EE and a bucketload of air quanta, its effective but it seems a bit unfair
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deepdown on January 15, 2011, 09:30:52 am
The AI decided to lobo the phoenix instead of blessed dune...

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd122375/AI_imp_02.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 15, 2011, 09:50:24 am
Forgive me if it's been said already (there are a lot of replys!)

AIs tend to use Retrovirus regardless of whether or not you actually have any creatures to infect (including immortal ones, but most obviously wrong when you don't have any at all!)

:]
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 15, 2011, 11:34:04 am
AI will cremate a creature even if it does nothing with the quantums this turn.

(Obviously if they think they're going to lose that creature, say to an Otyugh, or if it's a low defence creature, or against a Fire element... then there could be grounds for doing this, but generally speaking, nope!)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: doublecross on January 16, 2011, 04:09:24 am
AI will sacrifice virus/retrovirus even if you have no monsters on the field, and they have nothing that benefits from death effects.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 16, 2011, 12:03:48 pm
The Nightmare card:

WHen I'm using aether/air, and there are only aether and air creatures around, clever bot decides to Nightmare my Elite wyrm.

This is not a terrible choice because I don't have too many air pillars, but the bots gain of me not drawing a card for 1 turn seems rather less than his loss in giving me 8 new wyrms!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 16, 2011, 12:08:36 pm
the bots gain of me not drawing a card for 1 turn seems rather less than his loss in giving me 8 new wyrms!
As it happens this nearly cost me the game, coz instead of keeping air quantums around for my (basic) wings card, I was playing wyrms :D (I won anyway, awww yeah)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 16, 2011, 12:25:37 pm
Whimsical burrowing.

The AI will practically burrow any time they can, and only unburrow at some absurd point when they think it will finish you off (even if you were already going to be finished with their burrowed ATK, and even if the burrowed creature has no ATK, ie Devourers).

They would have to have some kind of risk assessy-type thing going on, like, burrow against Fire user, Burrow if Eagles Eye is floating about, but maybe not if they have 4+ def eg Elite Shrieker.

Stuff! :]
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: qui on January 16, 2011, 06:27:11 pm
AI used protect artifact on unstable gas. Then it exploded the gas on the same turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: BloodlinE on January 17, 2011, 10:15:16 am
ai isnt using sky blitz
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: 18237 on January 17, 2011, 11:11:30 am
AI will plate armor a shrieker then burrow it immediately, even if there are other things for it to heavy armor on the field
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: rowcla on January 19, 2011, 07:39:33 am
ai is using butterfly effect on creatures which it has already been used on (it was a voodoo doll by the way)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 19, 2011, 05:17:50 pm
AI tends not to use abilities (Like pulveriser) when it would use up all/most of their quantums of that element (even if they have nothing else to spend that element on, even if it would mean destroying the phase shield between AI and victory)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 19, 2011, 05:26:47 pm
Priorities disregard Dive?

Morrius the l.5 just blasted a Phase Recluse (7/2) instead of my Elite Wyrm (5/3). I had an abundance of Air quantums. (There was perhaps a yet bigger threat in the Wyrm from Fractal. I don't actually use fractal, but Botty dun kno dat!)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on January 19, 2011, 05:30:28 pm
Liquid Shadow is a double-edged sword.

Yet AI uses it when I have an Electrocutor hanging about.

I'm making quite a few comments to this. I wonder if these sort of comments are still even needed after 30 pages..?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on January 19, 2011, 05:36:44 pm
Nope, they've already been mentioned. Double... wait, triple-posting isn't clever either.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deepdown on January 23, 2011, 09:48:40 pm
AI decided to fractal voodoo instead of devourer, then two turns later did the opposite.  ???

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd127675/decay_01.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd127677/decay_02.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
(This case I'm happy that Decay has no TU's ->30% chance for deckout)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Onizuka on January 26, 2011, 04:54:54 am
I don't know if this has been mentioned.

Paradox will activate the effects of Elite Deja Vu while the field is full.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: rowcla on January 26, 2011, 05:17:14 am
ai uses immortal on devourer with 1 hp instead of shrieker
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: donkeyslap on January 26, 2011, 07:47:16 pm
When the AI wants to play adrenaline, does it target the creature with the lowest attack?

I just witnessed the AI play adrenaline on a Rustler rather than the Horned Frog it also had on the board.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Newbiecake on January 29, 2011, 06:36:49 am
Specialize Decks (mostly FGs) that has many copies of a single card like Gravity Pull will be spammed on a single creature when the FG is getting desparate. In my game with SnoWeb's Eternal Chaos (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20173.0.html), AI doesn't normally target ANY creatures with ANY abilities when they have an attack of -4 or lower, but when Obliterrator was getting desparate, he spammed 5 Gravity Forces on my Dune Scorpion. I think one is enough or if I have more than one creature, he should spread them out.

(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd132445/Eternal_Chaos_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd132445/Eternal_Chaos)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: zzz123 on January 29, 2011, 05:52:56 pm
the AI on level 5 keeps using its Schrodinger cat effect ("Dead and Alive") whether it needs to or not - and since I don't think I've yet seen a level 5 deck that has the card and actually benefits from this, it's a waste of aether in best case and significantly helping the player in the worst.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Assassine on February 10, 2011, 07:13:20 pm
I just faced an ai that actually adrenalined a frog i cast antimatter on before, healing me for 12 per turn instead of 3. I like it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deepdown on February 20, 2011, 04:22:12 pm
use those nightmares wisely...
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd143539/AI_fail_08.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Wynden on February 20, 2011, 08:09:57 pm
AI3 will bless a Deja Vu'd Deja Vu over a Dune Scorp..... which still has 0 attack.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Onizuka on February 21, 2011, 04:04:40 am
Paradox deja vu'd a dejavu with antimatter on it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: rowcla on March 02, 2011, 01:16:43 am
ai quints ball lightning
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: doublecross on March 02, 2011, 01:28:24 am
AI stole a flooding...

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Hodari on March 02, 2011, 03:44:24 am
Eternal Crusader's AI definitely needs a bit of work.  Most of the games I've played against it, it draws through cards way too quickly.  Normally this would not be a problem with all the eternities and crusaders it has but since it uses quint or Anubis on all of its creatures, it ends up having nothing left to target and has decked itself out in almost every game I won against it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: silux on March 03, 2011, 04:01:07 pm
Ai doesn't trigger unstable gas if you have jade shield even if you have 23 malignant cell in play.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ryli on March 03, 2011, 10:02:38 pm
Ai doesn't trigger unstable gas if you have jade shield even if you have 23 malignant cell in play.
Why would it? It harms itself, and leaves your field open to play more poweful creatures.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: badivan1 on March 07, 2011, 10:26:25 pm
Not casting Adrenaline/Epinephrine when there is already a creature that has already been adrenalined, even though there are other legal targets (e.g. Life Rush with Adrenaline/Epinephrine).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: deepdown on March 13, 2011, 10:14:23 am
I had another strange experience with AI a few days ago. The Oracle predicted Lionhart (needs any kind of PC to not to be a pure joke) and I made a simple 500HP deckout deck. Everything went well till he dropped to 2 cards and had an unquinted spot on his field. (the AI stopped using hourglasses at 5 cards as usually do) Then the AI started to rewind a scarab, and produced more with pharaoh, AI produced more cards back to his card pool and started to fill it back. At this point I expected a very long match, but when hitted the 5 cards, AI sensed there's no deckout danger anymore, so it quinted the last free spot.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd156835/lion_500HP_01.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)

 
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: tttt on March 24, 2011, 01:23:18 pm
Ai doesn't trigger unstable gas if you have jade shield even if you have 23 malignant cell in play.
Verified. Same with Black Hole spams, not used if you have sanctuary and hence he can't heal and deck you.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: edunavas on March 24, 2011, 02:30:23 pm
Ai doesn't trigger unstable gas if you have jade shield even if you have 23 malignant cell in play.
The AI don´t see malig cell as enemy.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: jumpoffduck on March 25, 2011, 12:10:00 am
Ai doesn't trigger unstable gas if you have jade shield even if you have 23 malignant cell in play.
The problem with this is that it would be difficult to code. We'd have to come up with a way for the computer to perform a cost-benefit analysis: is clearing the board worth having to take 20 damage? How would the computer decide this?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Onizuka on March 26, 2011, 07:59:01 pm
Both Decay and Eternal Phoenix fractal RoL over their own creatures.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Glitch on March 26, 2011, 09:39:26 pm
ChrisKang is no longer with us.

Someone please lock this thread.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on March 26, 2011, 09:43:45 pm
Yes, that's been pointed out many times. However, I'd rather have this as the place to post it than new people creating new threads for it every time.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: funerallaughter on March 27, 2011, 10:08:00 am
AI stole a flooding...
It's a brilliant move if the AI had no :water ?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Assassine on March 29, 2011, 05:56:36 pm
While Ai does chain sundial now, they play sundial if the only dmg source i have in play is a (non-flying) weapon, which sundial doesnt stop.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on April 02, 2011, 04:01:46 pm
It might've been mentioned before but I couldn't find it...

AI messes up Anubis all the time! When AI playes Anubis it's ability is not used usually until few turns later. Giving you time to kill it more easily (Anubis becomes immortal 3-4 turns after played). Note: AI doesn't use the aether quanta for anything else.

Also AI playes quint on Anubis. I was laughing at this, because it happened in the second turn of the existence of Anubis. 3 :aether spent instead of 1.... (upped cards)

Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Assassine on April 08, 2011, 10:45:04 pm
Theres a lot of things that would be smart to use by the ai, still they wont if they only barely have the quanta for it, even if theyll get a huge chunk of that quanta next turn anyway.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Marcus Impudite on April 17, 2011, 03:36:34 am
The Level 3 AI recently wasted its Crusader's endow ability on my Short Sword. What a digital dummy.  :))
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Malignant on April 17, 2011, 08:02:20 am
The Level 3 AI recently wasted its Crusader's endow ability on my Short Sword. What a digital dummy.  :))
Unless they was a better weapon out on the field, I don't see your point.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Marcus Impudite on April 18, 2011, 05:35:25 pm
My point is an intellegent player would save Crusader's ability to use against the special weapons, such as Electrocutor, Eagle's Eye, etc. Using it on Short Sword? Dumbest. Move. Ever.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 18, 2011, 05:51:28 pm
In t50, AI played a Light Nymph and a Shard of Readiness on it, but never activated it all game.  I think it might have still been looking if it had 4 :light available, even though it didn't need it anymore.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 19, 2011, 08:51:07 pm
AI played Improved Mutation on a creature, and got a Graboid that came into play burrowed, and had the ability  :earth = burrow.  This is fine (though unlucky) but then the AI burrowed it next turn, halving its attack for no reason :p
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: choongmyoung on April 21, 2011, 11:22:22 am
The AI had a blessing. In the last tern he played a dune scorpion and a otyugh.
Then he used blessing to otyugh, not dune scorpion.
It is much wiser to bless dune scorpion.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bhlewos on April 23, 2011, 04:47:25 pm
Not sure how high this would be on the priority list, but when displaying the potential damage (yellow bar), the game doesn't take into account damage blocked by Gravity Shield. Example here:

(http://cdn.elementscommunity.com/forum/profile_pictures/9708_1303577119.png)

The yellow bar should be 4 (points? units?) long, but it takes up the entire health bar even though all creature damage will be blocked.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: tdog0001 on April 23, 2011, 10:33:14 pm
That's not an AI deficiency, it's a graphics error.

it's been known for awhile...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on April 26, 2011, 10:36:30 am
That's not an AI deficiency, it's a graphics error.

it's been known for awhile...
Another graphic error is he don't counts adrenaline.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Imperator Feles on April 29, 2011, 06:36:57 am
I have on several occasions seen the AI play a bone wall then immediately (literally the next card they play on that turn) play a dimensional shield. Obviously this is a waste of a perfectly good bone wall, as the dimensional shield will just overlap and remove it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on April 29, 2011, 01:09:07 pm
I have on several occasions seen the AI play a bone wall then immediately (literally the next card they play on that turn) play a dimensional shield. Obviously this is a waste of a perfectly good bone wall, as the dimensional shield will just overlap and remove it.
It happens quite a few times. AI plays 2 weapons (one over the other), AI flies the weapon when it has a full field, AI keeps creating creatures (Pharaoh or Queen) when it's field is full.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 29, 2011, 10:29:13 pm
AI cast Antimatter on my Elite Shrieker (smart move) and then cast Mitosis on that same Elite Shrieker immediately after.  (wtf rofl)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 29, 2011, 10:30:08 pm
It happens quite a few times. AI plays 2 weapons (one over the other), AI flies the weapon when it has a full field, AI keeps creating creatures (Pharaoh or Queen) when it's field is full.
Usually I see this with the false god that has fahrenheit and eagle's eye.  (hermes I think?)  It will play fahrenheit and then eagle's eye right after, always in that order.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on April 29, 2011, 10:33:20 pm
Fire Queen. AI plays more expensive cards over other ones, though there are some special conditions for some of them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on April 29, 2011, 10:34:32 pm
It happens quite a few times. AI plays 2 weapons (one over the other), AI flies the weapon when it has a full field, AI keeps creating creatures (Pharaoh or Queen) when it's field is full.
Usually I see this with the false god that has fahrenheit and eagle's eye.  (hermes I think?)  It will play fahrenheit and then eagle's eye right after, always in that order.
Fire Queen, but it's not the point. Even when she has  :fire in the 100s, would do 30+ damage, it changes to EE. It can be a game changer.
AI should look for damage over cost...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bhlewos on April 30, 2011, 04:10:56 am
When the AI has a Purple Nymph and a Maxwell's Demon, with several high-attack creatures against it, it chooses to Paradox them rather than Antimatter, which IMO should be the priority.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on May 04, 2011, 03:15:40 am
Is there any point of keeping track of these suggestions? Is anyone looking at this? jw

AI at it's dumbest: I was playing Top50, AI had an upped eternity out and 6  :time. I had one grown destroyer he didn't rewinded it. The AI play AN UNUPPED ETERNITY OVER THE UPPED ETERNITY.
I'm still laughing. It's pretty ridiculous..... :D

And clearly didn't rewind and I won the game :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on May 04, 2011, 12:46:19 pm
Keeping track, not so much. Most of the reports here don't explain how it has to do with auto-targeting to begin with, but they've also been mentioned before.
The benefit I see is that we have a thread for something new people would otherwise create many different threads for.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on May 04, 2011, 12:58:22 pm
If I had a free time, I'd be willing to make this thread into a list. Should I be bored I might start it. Would it be useful to have all these suggestions listed and selected through?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Elementalicious on May 21, 2011, 06:31:31 pm
When Decay steals a Quantum Tower and has  :earth to burrow his pests, he burrows every one of them and can't use fractal on them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on May 21, 2011, 06:41:49 pm
When the :aether AI3 prefers to play mindgate>Dim. shield
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bhlewos on May 28, 2011, 06:39:56 pm
Chances are this has been mentioned before but in case it hasn't:

Paradox Deja Vu's a creature that's already been AM'd, doubling the healing towards myself (its enemy)...

(http://cdn.elementscommunity.com/forum/profile_pictures/9708_1306607831.png)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on May 28, 2011, 06:59:37 pm
Chances are this has been mentioned before but in case it hasn't:

Paradox TU's a creature that's already been AM'd, doubling the healing towards myself (its enemy)...

(http://cdn.elementscommunity.com/forum/profile_pictures/9708_1306607831.png)
I don't think it uses TU on AM-d creatures. It always uses it on another creature. However the AI will use Deja Vu ability, once the creature is AM-d.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bhlewos on May 28, 2011, 07:24:28 pm
Thanks for pointing that out -- I think it did Deja Vu it after all, I just got the two confused. Fixed.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bhlewos on June 02, 2011, 10:46:51 pm
The AI (Obliterator) has two Momentumed Dragons able to attack; one is AM'd and the other is normal. The AI chooses to Gravity Pull the normal one first, so that it does 11 healing over 2 turns. If the AI GP'd the AM'd one first, it would do 11 damage over 2 turns. I think given the option the AI should choose the second rather than the first.

(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/BhlewosAQW/ElementsTheGame/obliterator_dumb.png)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on June 03, 2011, 12:39:45 am
The AI (Obliterator) has two Momentumed Dragons able to attack; one is AM'd and the other is normal. The AI chooses to Gravity Pull the normal one first, so that it does 11 healing over 2 turns. If the AI GP'd the AM'd one first, it would do 11 damage over 2 turns. I think given the option the AI should choose the second rather than the first.


For me it usually uses GP on the AMd dragon. Almost always I think...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: scauduro221095 on June 03, 2011, 01:39:02 am
I have noticed that whenever LionHeart has a quint in his hand and a Anubis on the board he will always use quint over anubis' power even though Anubis doesnt cost as much, it would be much smarter as there have been times i have won because he couldnt quint all of his creatures as he didnt have the quanta.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on June 06, 2011, 04:47:26 pm
Why does the a.i. waste its firebolts/siphon lives on creatures.  Especially when its not even a kill shot!  For shame, computer.  For shame.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on June 06, 2011, 07:05:03 pm
When the Ai uses Rage potion on my creatures instead of his voodoo dolls.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Elementalicious on June 06, 2011, 11:42:19 pm
When the Ai uses Rage potion on my creatures instead of his voodoo dolls.
Do you mean a rage potion that kills the creature or makes it stronger?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on June 07, 2011, 12:28:17 am
When the Ai uses Rage potion on my creatures instead of his voodoo dolls.
Do you mean a rage potion that kills the creature or makes it stronger?
AI only uses Rage potion to kill opponents creatures. Actually AI will only use CC when the creature can be killed on that turn (even if 2 CC cards needed).

Also: Neptune plays Shockwave before Congeal on creatures. The other way would be instant kill, this is just a weaker frozen creature...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on June 07, 2011, 12:28:49 am
When the Ai uses Rage potion on my creatures instead of his voodoo dolls.
Do you mean a rage potion that kills the creature or makes it stronger?
AI only uses Rage potion to kill opponents creatures. Actually AI will only use CC when the creature can be killed on that turn (even if 2 CC cards needed).

Also: Neptune plays Shockwave before Congeal on creatures. The other way would be instant kill, this is just a weaker frozen creature... Though it'll use another Shockwave after :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kiebur on June 11, 2011, 09:47:05 pm
Have quintessenced sparks/ball lightnings been mentioned?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: ddevans96 on June 11, 2011, 11:06:39 pm
I really want to know why the heck this thread hasn't been locked.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Genuinous on June 12, 2011, 12:12:37 am
I really want to know why the heck this thread hasn't been locked.
So people won't start new topics with all their suggestions?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Assassine on June 12, 2011, 03:34:27 pm
Chaos Lord just CPed a mutant with paradox ability over one with dive. nothing else on the field
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on June 16, 2011, 01:07:35 pm
When FG's always mutate my RoL's,even if i have tons of them...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on June 16, 2011, 01:24:04 pm
Ah, that makes sense. It's a side-effect of a relatively new AI update where it regards Bioluminescent creatures as alpha targets when Hope is up. This is why they'll spam all sorts of CC at them the second you play Hope. Mutation does take care of the bioluminescence at least x)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on June 29, 2011, 04:02:12 am
AI just played four Shockwaves to kill my upgraded Steam Machine (0/15) even though it had Arctic Octopus on the field and could have congealed it and then killed it with one Shockwave.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Hodari on June 29, 2011, 04:52:43 am
I've won several games recently because the AI prioritizes its skeletons for reverse time even when it has <5 cards remaining
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on June 30, 2011, 07:39:54 pm
The ai should play stone skin when it gets 77  :earth instead of waiting until its hp gets low so that it doesn't get OTKed so easily
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DeathPanda1 on June 30, 2011, 07:42:44 pm
AI do not need improving, they are best the way they are.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: omegareaper7 on June 30, 2011, 08:06:56 pm
AI do not need improving, they are best the way they are.
No , they actually do need a bit of work still.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DeathPanda1 on June 30, 2011, 08:45:34 pm
AI do not need improving, they are best the way they are.
No , they actually do need a bit of work still.
Please explain, really do because i believe they are good they way are, buff them too much to hard to farm therefore no point. Nerf them too hard make things easier for noobs and easier to farm....
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on June 30, 2011, 08:50:42 pm
Please explain, really do because i believe they are good they way are, buff them too much to hard to farm therefore no point.
If the a.i. is better and its too hard we can make the fg's advantages less.  I'd rather play against a smarter opponent who cheats less.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bhlewos on June 30, 2011, 08:51:40 pm
^This isn't about buffing AI in terms of deckbuilding, this is a topic about mistakes that the AI makes in terms of logic. For example, when you have more than three creatures on the field and the AI has multiple Plagues in its hand, it will waste all of them in one turn instead of saving a couple for later, which a human player would do. Another example is, until recently when you were playing an RoL-Hope deck the AI wouldn't target the RoLs specifically to break the combo. Now, it'll treat RoLs (and other light-producing creatures) as primary targets if a Hope is out. It's stuff like that -- we don't necessarily want to make the AIs stronger, just less stupid.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on July 01, 2011, 08:08:18 am
When Ai lobotomize my Archangels instead of RoL's.This is stupid because Ai kills RoL's instead of Archangels :))
When Ai summons little creatures even if my oty is out.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: wavedash on July 03, 2011, 08:34:04 pm
AI seems to prefer to discard Ghosts of the Past instead of Fractals. Seems like a problem.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: sbluen on July 04, 2011, 08:04:38 am
The AI sometimes does not target its opponents weapons to prevent its otherwise obviously assured death.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Terrilocks on July 04, 2011, 08:57:35 am
Ai had a PAed Pulverizer out, then drew an eternity and played over it -.-

All in one turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Bulrog on July 04, 2011, 06:03:07 pm
The AI dont target his Phoenix with Cremation.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Tom Bombadil on July 04, 2011, 07:59:30 pm
Ai likes to lobotomize Archangels over rols even if there's a hope out
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on July 05, 2011, 08:00:46 am
When Ai lobotomize my Archangels instead of RoL's.This is stupid because Ai kills RoL's instead of Archangels :)
Ai likes to lobotomize Archangels over rols even if there's a hope out
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ravensvoice on July 05, 2011, 01:58:21 pm
When Ai lobotomize my Archangels instead of RoL's.This is stupid because Ai kills RoL's instead of Archangels :)
Could not find the original post this quickly, but archangels with 7Hp are a lot harder to kill than rol's with 1, so if the AI can kill a rol with 1 spell or need sometimes 3 for an archangel, killing rols makes sense even if he would consider the healing of an archangel to be the bigger threat. Lobo on the other hand does not care about how strong a creature is, only how strong its ability is. and since abilities on creatures with more health are more usefull if removed since those are likely to survive longer, the Ai can be forgiven for removing a useless healing power over a usefull bioluminessence since AI has to be written to do a fair job in al cases. this means it must also work in a deck with lightning storm and lobo, where loboing the angels could definately be the best move. Now making an AI that does the best thing in all cases is both undesirable(makes the game too hard for most people) as well as a nigh impossible task
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on July 06, 2011, 12:41:59 pm
Maybe far far down the road (in hundreds of years even) we could look forward to an a.i. that keeps a database of commonly used player strategies and uses some sort of probablistic mechanism to adjust its play based on the cards it has seen.  (I.e. an a.i. that makes educated guesses about what the human's strategy is and reacts to it).

A practical (though still arduous) step towards this goal would be an a.i. that recognizes what cards are in its deck and plays accordingly, waiting for combinations and so on.  It would not be necessary (even if it would be nice) for the a.i. to actually analyze its deck.  Instead (at least at first), each deck could come with its own a.i. file that tells it how to play.  For example, a deck whose success is predicated on quinting its only creature could demand that the a.i. not play the creature without quintessence in hand and sufficient quanta.

Ambitious?  Certainly.  But i think we can set our sights on the horizon and aim high.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: wavedash on July 06, 2011, 09:26:33 pm
Maybe far far down the road (in hundreds of years even) we could look forward to an a.i. that keeps a database of commonly used player strategies and uses some sort of probablistic mechanism to adjust its play based on the cards it has seen.  (I.e. an a.i. that makes educated guesses about what the human's strategy is and reacts to it).

A practical (though still arduous) step towards this goal would be an a.i. that recognizes what cards are in its deck and plays accordingly, waiting for combinations and so on.  It would not be necessary (even if it would be nice) for the a.i. to actually analyze its deck.  Instead (at least at first), each deck could come with its own a.i. file that tells it how to play.  For example, a deck whose success is predicated on quinting its only creature could demand that the a.i. not play the creature without quintessence in hand and sufficient quanta.

Ambitious?  Certainly.  But i think we can set our sights on the horizon and aim high.
Marvel vs. Capcom 3 has a mode where you can play against the computer that tries to emulate the playstyle of some of the developers. It'd be cool to see something like this.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: qui on July 07, 2011, 08:02:57 pm
AI used growth on a lava destroyer that was 13/7 or so and not on the one that was 7/1. I had fire buckler equipped and so it lost its lava destroyer for no good reason.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Hodari on July 07, 2011, 10:00:18 pm
The target selection for AI using fractal could use a lot of improvement, especially NOT automatically targeting RoL when their opponent has Hope in play and in general giving too high a priority to targeting low or 0 cost creatures even though it has plenty of quanta to fractal something larger like a dragon
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ashebrethafe on July 08, 2011, 01:24:01 am
AI used Parallel Universe on a 7|7 (from two Blessings) Photon instead of a 10|10 Golden Dragon. Neither creature had any other effects on it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: FSK on July 08, 2011, 11:25:58 pm
If the AI has a choice between immolating a Phoenix and another creature, the AI should generally prefer to immolate the Phoneix.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on July 08, 2011, 11:58:01 pm
Before doing anything else the AI should check to see if it can win that turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: funplay on July 10, 2011, 09:29:44 am
AI (FG Lionheart in this case) using the "endow" of crusaders, though a gravity shield is out.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: derele on July 10, 2011, 11:29:55 am
I made an air rush deck for Arena und and found out that the AI uses Sky Blitz against Sundial  >:(
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: pervepic on July 12, 2011, 07:28:05 pm
Sometimes Schödringer's Cats just staring there and don't use their abilities, even if they have a lot of quanta. They work only occasionally.

AI play Liquid Shadow too randomly; for example, it uses it on its own Pest which has 0 attack (?).

In my Arena deck my upgraded Blue Nymph appears to be unupgraded (Nymphs weren't given by Oracle).

AI doesn't make maximum damage but chooses to bring its critters out first. For example, it plays the third Wyrm out instead of choosing to dive 2 Wyrms in the table. I don't know if this should be fixed, but for players it is rather convenient  :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on July 13, 2011, 06:45:15 am
Ok,when subbed in elements chess we had a desync in the last turn.His Ai should win,but the Ai burrowed the shrieker,without burrowing it should win in the same turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: rowcla on July 13, 2011, 07:43:55 am
Ai Blesses Deathstalker multiple times instead of blessing any other ones it plays, this totally stuffed my arena deck  :'(
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 16, 2011, 12:54:04 am
I had two Otyughs in play, a 2/7 and a 1/6, and the AI cast Rewind targeting the 1/6 one.  All other things being equal, the bigger otyugh is obviously the smarter target to rewind.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: doublecross on July 16, 2011, 01:16:18 am
At least a year after it was first mentioned, it is still true that AI will detonate virus and retrovirus for no reason.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on July 16, 2011, 01:17:25 am
At least a year after it was first mentioned, it is still true that AI will detonate virus and retrovirus for no reason.
it doesnt know whether it has a bonewall, soulcatcher etc or not (perhaps)... is it no reason
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on July 16, 2011, 01:22:19 am
Indeed, there is a reason. If the AI goes through the cycle of playing cards (which it usually, but not always, does), it has a 100% chance to cast cards and abilities if it has 2.5 the amount of quanta needed. This means free abilities are almost always used without condition.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: doublecross on July 16, 2011, 01:27:57 am
It would be quick to code a check for
1) enemies
2) anything that has death triggers

to apply for virus

also, sorry for bad english. I am tired
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chromatophore on July 16, 2011, 01:36:38 am
It would be quick to code a check for
1) enemies
2) anything that has death triggers

to apply for virus

also, sorry for bad english. I am tired
if you can't code your own brain then you are thinking too hard
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Ashebrethafe on July 17, 2011, 12:48:41 am
I had two Otyughs in play, a 2/7 and a 1/6, and the AI cast Rewind targeting the 1/6 one.  All other things being equal, the bigger otyugh is obviously the smarter target to rewind.
The AI also makes the wrong decision with buffing abilities. It had two pegasi in play -- a 3|2 and a 6|5 -- and one air quantum, and dived the 3|2 one.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Rainbowninja on July 17, 2011, 02:25:41 pm
The AI gravity pulls a creature then puts momentum on its own.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 18, 2011, 08:32:16 pm
AI played a Stoneskin and afterwards played Supernova.  Playing them in the other order would have given it +2 hp.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: axel1989 on July 20, 2011, 04:05:20 pm
when computer have in hand the skyblitz, and in play creatures with the "dive" ability, and enough quanta to play it all... it just play the skyblitz... and it will play it even if there is a shield in play that will block all the damage (gravity shield or phase shield)...
can you fix that?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: parasite99 on July 20, 2011, 05:36:14 pm
While I was playing an Arena game AI used SkyBlitz without having any creatures (yes 0 creatures) on the field......and I lost to this AI muahahaha :)
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: parasite99 on July 20, 2011, 10:26:46 pm
Just saw another epic one...The AI fractals my ashes while I also had MPs in play...duh?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Terrilocks on July 21, 2011, 11:09:01 am
Just had something totally unexpected.

AI had more than one Mitosis in his hand, so he chose to use it on my oracle pet (Antimattered Dragonfly) first and then on his own creature.

This looks like it might be fun if AI prioritises antimattered creatures on the other side of the field to use this beneficial spell on, forgetting the new creatures will not be antimattered...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: parasite99 on July 21, 2011, 01:07:39 pm
I just saw a green nymph buffing with adrenaline the only dune scorpion with 0 attack while there were 3 others with momentum. I guess it goes for the lowest attack possible but wouldn't it be wiser to go for the attack that gives more + bonus...like first buff 3 attack creatures then 2 attack etc.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Chapuz on July 22, 2011, 04:14:52 pm
AI casts Dive of his Wyrm when i had a Sundial active for that turn. That's a waste of Quanta...

Didn't play against a Pegasus with my sundial deck.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 23, 2011, 01:05:00 am
AI cast Fractal on Ash, and then rebirthed the Ash into Minor Phoenix.  Obviously, the other way around is smarter!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: iCall_uHobo on July 23, 2011, 05:01:06 pm
The AI waits for an enemy creature instead of PUing his own Ruby Dragons, which is pretty stupid.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 23, 2011, 05:56:48 pm
Some lucky mofo in arena had six gravity nymphs and the AI is spamming them even when I have zero quanta left.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 24, 2011, 10:47:59 pm
The FG Dark Matter cast Gravity Force on its own Elite Armagio even though it could have just activated the armagio to gravity pull it.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on July 25, 2011, 01:09:23 am
The FG Dark Matter cast Gravity Force on its own Elite Armagio even though it could have just activated the armagio to gravity pull it.
The AI could use it to add card space in their hand
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on July 26, 2011, 07:25:36 pm
When using multiple Wardens first of which has non-zero attack, AI should target a non-flying creature.

Right now it's just first Warden uses "guard" on non-frozen/non-delayed creature with largest attack.

In my case, first Warden had 19 attack which could've devastated my deck but AI wasted it on "delaying" a flying creature which had largest attack.
Needless to say that AI hasn't considered blessing other Wardens it had...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on July 30, 2011, 08:59:23 am
I had a stack of two Quantum Towers.  AI cast Explosion on a tower and then Quicksand on the remaining tower, thereby wasting an explosion.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on July 31, 2011, 02:45:23 pm
AI should consider casting Liquid Shadow even on vampire creatures if they are most dangerous.

Currently it seem to target non-vampire creatures only.

Ex. "Vader Sader" deck with RoLs. AI will target RoLs if it can.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: russianspy1234 on July 31, 2011, 06:36:02 pm
Using 3 parralel/twin universes on a Spark with multiple other stronger creatures on the field.

stacking multiple buffs onto one dune scorpion when other ones are in play

not using pulverizes to destroy dim shield when doing so would allow for lethal damage.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 01, 2011, 05:40:38 am
AI can't make up its mind with shields.  It played a Permafrost Shield, then a Phase Shield, and then another Permafrost Shield, all in the same turn.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Solarias on August 01, 2011, 07:14:04 am
Also shouldnt the AI try to destroy or remove creatures from play or even counter antimatter in some way?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 01, 2011, 07:38:34 am
Also shouldnt the AI try to destroy or remove creatures from play or even counter antimatter in some way?
I've seen it use Antimatter to counter Antimatter, and to Cremate/Immolate its antimattered creatures, but I've never seen it use any other tricks, like freezing or killing them with something else such as fire lance.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Nyxtegida on August 04, 2011, 11:31:08 am
There are more than enough cases to justify me pronouncing AI as Artificial Incompetance.  :D
But mostly I've seen it in the arena where I was trying to make a really simple deck and testing against another to avoid the upcoming mistakes of the AI, 
like fractal a low attack power creature while having only 3 empty hand slots, or using explosion to destroy one out of 4 pillars instead of a golden hourglass...
I had this idea (or more likely a programmer's nightmare :p), to add for the arena an algorithm for each arena deck submitter to be able to "train" her/his deck,
by statistically altering the cases each card is played, like what cards are down, on hand, quanta etc.
By playing with the would-be-submitted deck a few to plenty games, one could change the behaviour of the AI playing this particular deck.
It's just an idea to see more complex and efficient decks on the arena to work as they supposed to.

Though if there's a case elements AI turns into skynet or something, I'd gladly stay with the retarded one :D
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on August 06, 2011, 11:34:39 am
Casting Basilisk Blood on RoL is usually a waste.
Currently AI doesn't take it into account.

Delaying a RoL won't take away it's quanta generation, and it's default attack is too low to be a threat.
Possibly applies to Gemfinders and Damselflies.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on August 06, 2011, 12:20:20 pm
Also shouldnt the AI try to destroy or remove creatures from play or even counter antimatter in some way?
I've seen it use Antimatter to counter Antimatter, and to Cremate/Immolate its antimattered creatures, but I've never seen it use any other tricks, like freezing or killing them with something else such as fire lance.
Ai mutate them.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xenocidius on August 06, 2011, 12:24:01 pm
Also shouldnt the AI try to destroy or remove creatures from play or even counter antimatter in some way?
I've seen it use Antimatter to counter Antimatter, and to Cremate/Immolate its antimattered creatures, but I've never seen it use any other tricks, like freezing or killing them with something else such as fire lance.
Ai mutate them.
Yep, it Antimatters, cremates and mutates them, and also flings them with Catapult (damn you, Osiris).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Znork on August 07, 2011, 10:56:29 pm
I had a stack of two Quantum Towers.  AI cast Explosion on a tower and then Quicksand on the remaining tower, thereby wasting an explosion.
I had 8 Lava Golems out -  all were 5/1. The AI then Ice Bolts one, freezes another and finally uses Rain of Fire on the whole lot.

Maybe there should be a rule: If AI is going to use spells that hit all enemy creatures, it should play those first?
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Znork on August 07, 2011, 11:35:51 pm
Here's a problem I don't know how to fix, but it's there:

I'm playing an :water :earth Half-Blood. - the mark is  :earth X3. The AI gets a near perfect start and mine is not great. Before I get to do anything but play 3 quantum pillars, the AI whips out the Trident. AI has to wait a round before using it. I did not have the option of Enchanting the pillars. In the next round AI then chooses to go for the Pulverizer instead, replacing the Trident without even using it (the use of 3  :earth would have made the switch impossible).

Now, I realize that to most players the Pulverizer is a stronger, more versatile weapon than the Trident. And I'm guessing that that's what the AI has been told to think as well. But in this case the Trident could have denied me of quantum (I only had quantum pillars - the AI didn't know that, of course) and finished me.

Anyway... when AI is playing  :water :earth and comes up with the only card that ties the two elements together - it should stick to it instead of playing a Pulverizer and not having any  :gravity to fuel it.

Don't know how to fix it at all - but the defeat would have been kind of cool. Total ownage.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Higurashi on August 08, 2011, 08:08:33 am
Heh, so it would've. Currently the AI simply plays over a permanent with a more expensive one when it can. That means it does so for Shields as well. However, you will also find it can play a cheaper permanent over a more expensive one if it has a more expensive one to play over that right away. That's why you'll sometimes see the AI play Bone Wall, Dim Shield, Bone Wall. Truly moronic.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Xenocidius on August 08, 2011, 08:33:00 am
Heh, so it would've. Currently the AI simply plays over a permanent with a more expensive one when it can. That means it does so for Shields as well. However, you will also find it can play a cheaper permanent over a more expensive one if it has a more expensive one to play over that right away. That's why you'll sometimes see the AI play Bone Wall, Dim Shield, Bone Wall. Truly moronic.
Actually, that special behaviour is only for Dim/Phase Shield, I believe - it plays it over anything.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 09, 2011, 08:00:45 am
In arena, came up (twice) against a time/gravity deck with Dune Scorpion, Unstoppable, and Pharaoh.  The AI prefers to target Pharaoh and Scarabs with Unstoppable before the scorpions, and will only play it on a scorpion if it's the last or only choice.  The funniest part of it was that the deck is now 39-2, and I gave it both the losses because of the AI priority; almost certainly would've lost both otherwise.  Not sure what happened to the other 39 people... maybe it didn't draw any pharaohs so it actually played the unstoppable scorpion combo!
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 11, 2011, 10:10:41 am
I've got a really good one this time :p

AI was kicking my ass with a Pest that had Butterfly Effect.  Later in the game, the AI decided to use its Dark Nymph to give that pest the vampire ability!  :P
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on August 12, 2011, 12:03:18 am
AI just used Enchant Artifact on Sundial.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Naesala on August 12, 2011, 05:34:11 am
AI played an electrocuter and then stole mine, wasting a card and quanta.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: DrOctaganapus2 on August 12, 2011, 05:35:21 am
AI played discord, then switched to dagger, then used flying weapon on the dagger

AI uses parell universe on my Antlion instead of my Stone Dragon.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kardo on August 12, 2011, 08:07:46 pm
Today I had Destiny or Chaos Lord (I forget which) use a Black nymph's Liquid Shadow on its own anti-mattered Maxwell's demon, both removing the creature's skill and causing damage to itself.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Calindu on August 12, 2011, 08:13:26 pm
AI played discord, then switched to dagger, then used flying weapon on the dagger

AI uses parell universe on my Antlion instead of my Stone Dragon.
Ai,Y u hate discord?(Ai has no sense in combo's)
Ai doesn't like a vanilla creature.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Kardo on August 13, 2011, 12:50:34 pm
Lionheart's creature priority when his board is nearly full makes a mistake. He will play a Crusader instead of leaving the spot empty so that he can continually rewind Scarabs. I just won because he played a Crusader, quinted it and filled his side with immortal creatures, thereby causing himself to deck out. For 4 turns prior he would spawn 2 scarabs and rewind them on the same turn, preventing me from quinting them and locking his board down. When he drew the Crusader he locked it for me, ensuring the win.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Rainbowninja on August 13, 2011, 01:16:55 pm
Lionheart's creature priority when his board is nearly full makes a mistake. He will play a Crusader instead of leaving the spot empty so that he can continually rewind Scarabs. I just won because he played a Crusader, quinted it and filled his side with immortal creatures, thereby causing himself to deck out. For 4 turns prior he would spawn 2 scarabs and rewind them on the same turn, preventing me from quinting them and locking his board down. When he drew the Crusader he locked it for me, ensuring the win.
Yea, Lionheart's stupid, most wins are by him decking himself out.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 15, 2011, 08:54:10 pm
AI had an accelerated armagio, then on the next turn cast overdrive on it, immediately followed by another acceleration.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: RagingAlien on August 16, 2011, 01:13:57 am
yesterday, Chaos Lord played a Diss Field and then stole my sanc...
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: bogtro on August 16, 2011, 02:28:32 pm
AI fails:

Used Phase Shield, then Bone Wall, then Phase Shield again on same turn O.O
Refused to devour my poisoned creatures - even when they grow.
Used "Enchant Artifact" on his one tower instead of his 8 pillars.
Uses "overdrive", then "accelerate", then "momentum" all in the same turn.
Uses "Shockwave"... and then "Freeze""  ???
Antimatters photons o.O
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: russianspy1234 on August 16, 2011, 04:50:39 pm
i had two maxwells demons on the field and 4 abominations, he killed one demon, the other somehow went down to 1 health (forget how) he then proceeded to use owls eyes to take out my abominations as opposed to the demon, which was killing a creature every turn.

the AI seems to have no concept of saving cards for later, ie using defrag on a pillar (when there are 8) as opposed to waiting for another permanent.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Znork on August 17, 2011, 11:01:47 pm
AI quints a Shrieker and then burrows it
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Znork on August 17, 2011, 11:51:19 pm
AI uses dive on Pegasus with 3/2 instead of the Pegasus with 9/8
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on August 22, 2011, 11:58:29 am
AI seems to avoid using paradox ability on poisoned creature (even if it's huge and is the only creature a player has).


Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 23, 2011, 07:40:32 am
AI played Luciferase first, and then Improved Miracle on the same turn, wasting the luciferase healing obviously.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: coinich on August 23, 2011, 01:20:02 pm
One thing that bugs me is that the AI currently doesn't play Freeze/Squid's ability and then Shockwave in the right order.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Jocko on August 23, 2011, 06:06:43 pm
We should make a list of all these items. This post is really messy.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Znork on August 23, 2011, 11:48:36 pm
We should make a list of all these items. This post is really messy.
That's like 500 posts. Whoever does it should get a nice prize.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Jocko on August 24, 2011, 12:08:45 am
Shouldn't take too long, i'll get on it later. Zanz would have a hard time reading through this post.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on August 24, 2011, 03:14:11 pm
AI doesn't seem to cast Reverse Time on low attack creatures with Adrenaline.

It does make sense saving Reverse time for larger, higher cost creatures.
However it would also make sense if AI would also try to cast Reverse Time on adrenal Mind Flayer (for ex.).
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Rastafla on August 25, 2011, 06:46:11 pm
The AI uses sky blitz and lose all quanta and is not able to dive even though it could have done both.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: dragonsdemesne on August 26, 2011, 01:51:40 am
FG Miracle is playing Improved Blessings on its Leaf Dragon instead of its diving Elite Pegasi.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Eleahen on August 28, 2011, 05:36:43 pm
AI burrows immortal Shriekers
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: avantasia666 on August 31, 2011, 08:00:32 pm
Halfblood Shadiel (Darkness/Light) tried to heal his vampire with holy light and killed it by this.
Title: Re: AI improvements
Post by: Scaredgirl on September 01, 2011, 11:28:53 am
This topic is massive, outdated, and should probably be in "Game Suggestions and Feedback", which is why I am now locking it.

Someone will start a new AI topic very soon.
blarg: Scaredgirl