Poll

Nerf Shard of Freedom?

No - leave it alone.
63 (36%)
Yes - lower chance to trigger from 25% per shard to 20%.
57 (32.6%)
Yes - cap cumulative trigger chance at 90%.
31 (17.7%)
Yes - something else which I'll tell you about.
24 (13.7%)

Total Members Voted: 175

*Author

Offline Solaris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1903
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 37
  • Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Solaris is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224797#msg1224797
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2016, 07:08:54 pm »
So I'm probably just parroting what other people have said, but this card simply does too much for too little cost. On my very first try to build a deck using it I came up with a partially upgraded 5 TTW rush deck that was highly resistant to stalling and cc. That should NOT happen.

I also feel that this card completely overshadows sky blitz.

I think changing the stacking to multiplicative would be a great start.
It actually enhances Sky Blitz quite a bit, since you get 50% more damage off the 2x damage Sky Blitz provides.

Offline Manuel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
  • Country: it
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of AirSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeBrawl #7 Winner - Green NightWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #11 Winner - Team LifeCard Design Competition - Help Wanted WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerCard Competition - ChampionSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224800#msg1224800
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2016, 07:27:02 pm »
So I'm probably just parroting what other people have said, but this card simply does too much for too little cost. On my very first try to build a deck using it I came up with a partially upgraded 5 TTW rush deck that was highly resistant to stalling and cc. That should NOT happen.

I also feel that this card completely overshadows sky blitz.

I think changing the stacking to multiplicative would be a great start.

u need to "waste" 6 slots in your deck for having a decent chance of getting a 100% double damage (and u need 4 shards simultaneously) and evasion (that doesn't protect u against rain of fire, that is used in almost every  :fire deck stall).

also the evasion is only for  :air creatures, i think is a totally balanced card

Offline Ginyu

  • Chat Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1670
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 25
  • Ginyu is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Ginyu is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Ginyu is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Ginyu is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Ginyu is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Feel the punch of Gravity!
  • Awards: War #13 Winner - Team DarknessSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2015 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeChampionship League 1/2015 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224807#msg1224807
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2016, 08:15:51 pm »
@Manuel You forgot about the shield evasion part.

This card is a mass buff, anti-CC buff and anti-shield-PC in one card, for 2|1. It has strong in-element-synergies with Wyrm and Sky Blitz. Its rushing capabilities get much greater with the in-element Damselfly. The only real counters are mass-CC (not too common, and the Chaos Power-version will prepare for that pretty well) and SoSac. PC can get you somewhere, but Deflag is not even more expensive than the shard, but you will also need to pack a lot, which you likely won't unless you predict a perm-heavy deck. Its consistency is great, the chance to get a faildraw aren't as high as with other decks. Last but not least, Fog Shield brings another strong card to ensure your rush will be faster (unless you face an Immorush, which on the other hand has lower consistency), and if PC is used against it, it can't be used on shards.

Unupped SoFree decks aren't so overpowered because of the lower Wyrm's attack and that Dragonfly has a casting cost and lower attack. In upped, this is one of the strongest decks of all, and it is most about the shard.

Btw: Rain of Fire isn't used very often in Fire Stalls, at least not in the most popular Sanc-Firestall.
Do you have a great idea for a Weekly Tournament? Post it here!
:aether War #8 :aether          :gravity Trials #9 :gravity
:gravity War #9 :gravity
:water War #10 :water

Offline Sera

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 495
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Sera hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2016 2nd PlaceSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2015 1st Place
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224868#msg1224868
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2016, 04:51:06 am »
I think changing the stacking to multiplicative would be a great start.
Sounds like a good suggestion. When 3-4 hit the field, it really becomes a big problem and this addresses that. Also reduces the incentive of bringing 6 of them, which is part of the reason why PC is somewhat ineffective at countering this.

PC as a counter to this card is almost like using Heal to counter a Dragon.

Offline ratcharmer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 872
  • Reputation Power: 10
  • ratcharmer is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.ratcharmer is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • I'm back, it's been a while.
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224988#msg1224988
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2016, 03:37:28 am »
It actually enhances Sky Blitz quite a bit, since you get 50% more damage off the 2x damage Sky Blitz provides.
I initially thought this would be the case, but what I've found in practice is that by the time I'm ready for the blitz a halfway decent skyshard deck has already killed the opponent. After a dozen games or so of never using blitz I took it out.'

u need to "waste" 6 slots in your deck for having a decent chance of getting a 100% double damage (and u need 4 shards simultaneously) and evasion (that doesn't protect u against rain of fire, that is used in almost every  :fire deck stall).
The fact that a counter exists does NOT make a card balanced.

Imagine if a new card was put into the game called "Shield of Awesome" it reduces incoming damage by 7 points, reflects spells and only costs 1 quanta, but it's not indestructible so it can be easily countered by permanent control. "Shield of Awesome" would still be obviously OP because it does more than the cost of the card justifies.

You do not "need" 6 copies of the shard in your deck--you still benefit even if there's only one of them. Most people put 6 copies in deck simply because the card is so powerful.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 03:45:24 am by ratcharmer »

Offline joebob555

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • joebob555 hides under a Cloak.
  • Elemental
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224990#msg1224990
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2016, 03:57:35 am »
I would change the card to read:

Airborne creatures gain a 25% chance to deal +50% damage, deal spell damage, and evade targeting if  :air

Adding two counters isn't a whole lot, but if you cannot remove the SoFree, that counter will hit back hard, making the card risky to use.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 03:59:14 am by joebob555 »
:light

Offline Manuel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
  • Country: it
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of AirSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeBrawl #7 Winner - Green NightWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #11 Winner - Team LifeCard Design Competition - Help Wanted WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerCard Competition - ChampionSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224994#msg1224994
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2016, 05:24:31 am »
It actually enhances Sky Blitz quite a bit, since you get 50% more damage off the 2x damage Sky Blitz provides.
I initially thought this would be the case, but what I've found in practice is that by the time I'm ready for the blitz a halfway decent skyshard deck has already killed the opponent. After a dozen games or so of never using blitz I took it out.'

u need to "waste" 6 slots in your deck for having a decent chance of getting a 100% double damage (and u need 4 shards simultaneously) and evasion (that doesn't protect u against rain of fire, that is used in almost every  :fire deck stall).
The fact that a counter exists does NOT make a card balanced.

Imagine if a new card was put into the game called "Shield of Awesome" it reduces incoming damage by 7 points, reflects spells and only costs 1 quanta, but it's not indestructible so it can be easily countered by permanent control. "Shield of Awesome" would still be obviously OP because it does more than the cost of the card justifies.

You do not "need" 6 copies of the shard in your deck--you still benefit even if there's only one of them. Most people put 6 copies in deck simply because the card is so powerful.

lol the shield of awesone, soooo funny, really

this is the only card in elements that require 4 copies at the same time in the field for x effect, if u have 5 or 6 on the field on the field, only 4 has effect, the other 2 are dead cards (most of times) or can replace the destroyed shards (and this mean that for a turn u didn't have the 100%) 

at the same time, in the field, u need a decent number of creature, or shards are useless, so the optimal thing is probably 3 shards and 3 creature (at least one wyrm?)

those are a lot of requirements, i think, to explain why this card is somewhat balanced. is a support card lol, alone doesn't do anything, is totally different from a stand alone (or from your really funny joke shield of awesome!!!) card that does something (sundial)or a combo of two cards (dis + bhole).

where this card is played:

fake gods: they don't use shards
pvp1: unupped wyrms are so underpowered, any other cheap airborne creature doesn't have the evasion
pvp2: i don't play pvp2, so idk
pvp1/2 tournaments: shards are banned from most of them
bronze: lol shards
silver: if u find the guy with upped wyrms can be scary,  but i think is really rare a silver player with a decent number of shards and upped wyrms
gold: in gold a good 40% of players still don't know what they are doing, in the top 50 there are 5 air decks (10%), i think u will find something like 8% air deck in all the gold league?
platinum: here u have no no excuses, is the last league in the game, with poison dials is an autowin, swallow gets outrushed (swallow gets outrushed in general)


so i think the problem is in gold and platinum?

i didn't farm gold so much (i actually start doing it with a sofree deck that has a decent winrate against other sofree!!!!), but removing the 40% of players that buid terrible decks, removing every other elements, if your deck has a decent winrate all decks, i don't think is a problem if u lose a 10% of the battles because your deck can't handle it, which in a tcg with a lot of variety is totally normal?

the plat arena has a compilation of even better combos, so what is the point of trying (or simply talking) to nerf a single card that is pseudo balanced?



Offline ddevans96

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8306
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 113
  • ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • now palafrost
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSilver Donor9th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1224998#msg1224998
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2016, 06:15:08 am »
...or can replace the destroyed shards (and this mean that for a turn u didn't have the 100%) 

No, because in such a situation, you would replace the shard immediately, returning the percentage to 100% before any attacks.

Quote
pvp2: i don't play pvp2, so idk
...
so i think the problem is in gold and platinum?

Most of the problem is in upgraded PvP, the area of play you didn't cover. While shards are banned in most tournaments, many other PvP environments allow shards, and in those metagames it tends to range from simply powerful to borderline broken.

Even ignoring that, looking at effect/cost, even after considering cost in terms of quanta, time, and card advantage, SoFr would appear to be really strong compared to other cards that overlap parts of it's effect.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 06:17:52 am by ddevans96 »
discord / twitter: palafrost - 2x master of water - false god enthusiast
twitch: palafrost - speedrunner, ex-celeste, currently hades
avatar: makoto [persona 5] by asukabaka

Offline AD TienzuStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 21
  • AD TienzuStorm is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.AD TienzuStorm is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.AD TienzuStorm is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.AD TienzuStorm is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • I'm back bitches
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1225003#msg1225003
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2016, 11:57:33 am »
at the same time, in the field, u need a decent number of creature, or shards are useless, so the optimal thing is probably 3 shards and 3 creature (at least one wyrm?)

those are a lot of requirements, i think, to explain why this card is somewhat balanced. is a support card lol, alone doesn't do anything, is totally different from a stand alone (or from your really funny joke shield of awesome!!!) card that does something (sundial)or a combo of two cards (dis + bhole).

Are you trying to say that cards like Sky Blitz and Fractal are weak and underpowered just because they rely on creatures? A card that has the assumption that you have creatures on the field is not a weak one.

Also, SoFr is not expensive at all. You can easily make a rush with Damsels, Elite Wyrms, and SoFr and have much more than just 3 shards and 3 creatures (where did you get those numbers anyways?). Besides, 3 SoFr is not optimal use.
:light War #9 - Team Light :light | :life Brawl #5 - Gaia's Pride :life
Check out my card Flock!

Offline Espithel

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2705
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Espithel hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeGive us the video.Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeZanz Christmas Present Competition - Winner
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1225008#msg1225008
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2016, 01:36:39 pm »
Can anyone name a deck that has an extremely high chance of beating SouFflé decks?

I mean, Immortal follows this same principle; It's REALLY hard to kill an immortal, more so than SouFflé, I'd argue.
But we don't complain about immortal for a number of reasons, those being that's it's slow, easy to outrush, and blockable with shields/dials.

What's slow, easy to outrush, and blockable about SouFflé? Immortal trades speed for resilience. What does SouFfflé trade? It's not like they would play anything in place of those 5-6 SouFflés.

And before you go on about SoW, yeah, guess how many people think immortal SoW isn't an issue, either.

Offline Manuel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
  • Country: it
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of AirSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeBrawl #7 Winner - Green NightWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #11 Winner - Team LifeCard Design Competition - Help Wanted WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerCard Competition - ChampionSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1225070#msg1225070
« Reply #106 on: February 25, 2016, 12:31:19 am »

Are you trying to say that cards like Sky Blitz and Fractal are weak and underpowered just because they rely on creatures? A card that has the assumption that you have creatures on the field is not a weak one.

rofl

i don't see the sense of calling sky blitz or fractal, they are totally different cards

Quote
Also, SoFr is not expensive at all. You can easily make a rush with Damsels, Elite Wyrms, and SoFr and have much more than just 3 shards and 3 creatures (where did you get those numbers anyways?). Besides, 3 SoFr is not optimal use.

uhm no, i wasn't talking about that, i was talking about having a decent/suboptimal board where SoFs and wyrms can make the difference, i am not talking about using 3 wyrms and 3 SoFs in a deck, english is not my first language

Offline serprex

  • Administrator
  • ********
  • Posts: 2236
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • serprex hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: War #12 Winner - Team Darkness
Re: [Official] Shard of Freedom | Shard of Freedom https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47829.msg1225071#msg1225071
« Reply #107 on: February 25, 2016, 12:59:00 am »
With 2 Damsels and 2 Wyrms on the field, a SoFr is worth 3 damage. This is more efficient than a Giant Frog, and does not include an evaluation of shield bypass or evasion. It's impossible to outscale SoFr by playing "something else". You need to hard counter it (Dials, SoSa, repeatable PC, mass CC)

 

anything
blarg: