Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Cards => Light => Topic started by: xdude on March 15, 2010, 12:52:04 pm
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(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Hope.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/HopeUpgraded.png)
Discuss
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BLING!
Artwork is Awesome. Bit off put that Diamond shield costs more and will be less effective wiith little effort. Against decks without Creature control it'll be king. I like it. Maybe too strong for the environment at this time tho..
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If this doesn't change at all light becomes a god tier deck.
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I don't really get why it's immaterial. Was it to "match" Morning Glory? Without immaterial, fire, darkness, and earth would be the only things that could truly stop it. Other elements may have some creature control, but it would be too slow, excluding RoF.
BLING!
Artwork is Awesome. Bit off put that Diamond shield costs more and will be less effective wiith little effort. Against decks without Creature control it'll be king. I like it. Maybe too strong for the environment at this time tho..
Bolded for emphasis. Glad I was already upping a lot of Gravity cards...
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ehh? OP? did you try to make a deck based on this? It's not too easy to get SO many cards on the field that generate light AND also deal good damage. Anyways, light really needed a boost.
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ehh? OP? did you try to make a deck based on this? It's not too easy to get SO many cards on the field that generate light AND also deal good damage. Anyways, light really needed a boost.
Can't you just toss in a few Light Dragons or Morning Glory for damage? Save them until you've got that almighty shield up and generating tons of quanta and you should be fine...
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Ehh, creature control will also screw this thing up. It's not OP.
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ehh? OP? did you try to make a deck based on this? It's not too easy to get SO many cards on the field that generate light AND also deal good damage. Anyways, light really needed a boost.
I have added it to my current deck and it has surpassed Diamond Shield and Emerald shield by leaps and bounds. Its not that it is an auto-win card, just that it is much more powerful when compared to other cards that fill the same job.
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Regular Queen plus this. Maybe throw in some Blessings and possibly a Miracle or two, and you have a strong deck.
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Might be a bit less powerful without the natural PA.. Other than that, very nice card.
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Might be a bit less powerful without the natural PA.. Other than that, very nice card.
Very off-topic, but I have to say I REALLY like your new avatar.
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I agree, very good avatar :D
About the card, the image can have a protective appeal, but the name "hope" has nothing to do with the shield slot, has it? maybe we could think about other name, like bioluminescence shield? Well, maybe its a bit OP, but it is related to what light can do. Before this one, I would never put that Luciferin card in a deck, would you?
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While it is a good shield, I still consider that it's not OP, considering that
Anyways, light really needed a boost.
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ehh? OP? did you try to make a deck based on this? It's not too easy to get SO many cards on the field that generate light AND also deal good damage. Anyways, light really needed a boost.
I have added it to my current deck and it has surpassed Diamond Shield and Emerald shield by leaps and bounds. Its not that it is an auto-win card, just that it is much more powerful when compared to other cards that fill the same job.
That's what I was trying to say. I don't think it's auto-win either.
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Just throwing this out there. If you have six Rays of Light and an upped Hope on the board, Divine Glory can't hurt you. At all. :)
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I think there should be a cap for the protection.
I suggest 2 or 3 for unupped and 3 or 4 for upped version.
And perhaps not +1 for every light producing creature, but for every second or third.
Rainbow Decks with FFQ and normal FFQ decks could become almost invincible in the late game.
This card can completely kill the FFQ god , Divine Glory and perhaps many other god decks
It would be a good effect for the Solar Shield as well, cause the name would also fit.
The creatures produce the light to protect you.
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FFQ decks could become almost invincible in the late game.
The thing is that FFQ decks are not really strong. Adding this to them might be an advantage, but it will also clutter up a lot of hands, overall worsening initial draws. And a Fire Storm would screw all this "invincibility" up.
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Taking away the immaterial status should be enough of a disadvantage already. Compare it to dissipation shield, if you'd wish.
Also; my avatar just means business.
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I don't know why, but some posts suggest hope is easy to counter with creature control...
Upgraded it gives 2 protection even without any light emitting creatures! An indestructible shield with 2 protection is very good in itself, greatly reducing damage from Fire Queen, Incarnate, Ferox, Morte, burrowed shriekers, puffer fishes etc. making it great for early game, before you can play those light emitting creatures (of course if you have an early source of light, so better for rainbows than FFQ for example). Add some SoG's and sundials, and it greatly helps to survive until you can play some quinted source of light, luciferined drags, light nymph+skeletons, whatever... it seems to be equally powerful as a bone wall in late game, but better in early game.
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Yes Xinef, you're right, but what I've been trying to say is that it's not terribly OP. AND
Anyways, light really needed a boost.
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Yea, and I think having the worlds greatest shield kind of fits in life. But I have to agree, right now it's OP, simply because you cannot get rid of it. I like the auto-PA and how the card works, but it needs some sort of weakness. Like if an instant hits you while you have the shield out the shield dies, or something.
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Yea, and I think having the worlds greatest shield kind of fits in life. But I have to agree, right now it's OP, simply because you cannot get rid of it. I like the auto-PA and how the card works, but it needs some sort of weakness. Like if an instant hits you while you have the shield out the shield dies, or something.
Creature control. And I know what you're going to say, "but what if they're made untargetable?" Simple. Making them untargetable, either with Anubis or Aether Nymph or Quint will require the use of one or two more elements, which balances it out just fine. If someone is willing to use those extra elements, and actually manages to get the shield up and the creatures protected, then by all means, they SHOULD win the match.
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Yea, and I think having the worlds greatest shield kind of fits in life. But I have to agree, right now it's OP, simply because you cannot get rid of it. I like the auto-PA and how the card works, but it needs some sort of weakness. Like if an instant hits you while you have the shield out the shield dies, or something.
Creature control. And I know what you're going to say, "but what if they're made untargetable?" Simple. Making them untargetable, either with Anubis or Aether Nymph or Quint will require the use of one or two more elements, which balances it out just fine. If someone is willing to use those extra elements, and actually manages to get the shield up and the creatures protected, then by all means, they SHOULD win the match.
hmm, I kept saying that xD
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Yea, and I think having the worlds greatest shield kind of fits in life. But I have to agree, right now it's OP, simply because you cannot get rid of it. I like the auto-PA and how the card works, but it needs some sort of weakness. Like if an instant hits you while you have the shield out the shield dies, or something.
Creature control. And I know what you're going to say, "but what if they're made untargetable?" Simple. Making them untargetable, either with Anubis or Aether Nymph or Quint will require the use of one or two more elements, which balances it out just fine. If someone is willing to use those extra elements, and actually manages to get the shield up and the creatures protected, then by all means, they SHOULD win the match.
hmm, I kept saying that xD
I understand that. But what happens if your deck doesn't run creature control. Graboid + Shrieker, Vampire, and FFQ decks are in trouble because of this card. And with fractal, duoing to aether isn't really all that difficult. Why immortalize Ray of Light when you can just spam them? Against FFQ decks, the problem is even worse. Sure, creature control is good, but unless you've got thunderstorm, fireshield or rain of fire, you're sitting there fighting to kill every Ray/firefly. And while you're sitting there trying to kill them, your opponent is dropping dragons, or just plain whacking you with a butt ton of fireflies.
A light Aether deck, with ray of light, fractal, hope, dragons, and some simple healing, becomes untouchable the second you drop your second aether pillar. Not because you can't kill the ray of light, but because there's simply too many of them to handle, and meanwhile there are dragons to deal with.
Needs. A. Nerf.
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I think if any element should have the best shield of all, it should be :earth ... though in elements it seems to be more offensive than defensive... which seems strange in my opinion. But anyway :light and :gravity could be second in my opinion.
I don't know how strong/weak :light is, because I never played mono-light, but as far as I see hope works really well in duo and trio decks, also a good alternative to bone wall in rainbows, but it seems too hard to counter...
Most damage reducing shields can be countered easily with high attack creatures.
Gravity shield can be countered with small creatures.
Other shields approximately half damage (procrastination, ice shield, dusk mantle).
Fire shield... depends on deck using it, but still possible to withstand with most decks.
Most of the above can be countered with permanent control, unless protected
Bone wall, on the other hand is good only if you already have control over the field, otherwise it is easily destroyed by creatures, so it is more of a 'when you already have control, make it stay so', rather than helping to establish control.
Also all shields can be countered with momentum, but in this case I would say elements with healing have advantage, because normally the damage that goes through is small enough to heal with bonds/SoG/miracle/vampire/antimatter/etc
But hope seems to be pretty immune to most forms of counter. Can not be destroyed, good against small creatures and good against big creatures, good in early game and good in late game... against momentum miracles might prove a problem.
Ok, creature control solves the problem of late game - killing all the light emitting creatures makes hope an average shield counterable with high attack creatures... but I guess most mono light decks will use luciferined light drags, so will be hard to remove from play, especially by other mono decks. When on the other hand we pit a duo/trio deck against a duo/trio hope deck, the duo/trio deck might have better creature control for example, but duo/trio hope deck will probably have ways to protect luciferined creatures... so I guess any way hope is the hardest shield to counter. And making the best shield also the hardest to counter is in my opinion OP.
So it needs nerfing, either making it less powerful, or (preferably) easier to counter. For example add some conditions when it is destroyed... but I would suggest to link these conditions to the amount of :light the player has (something similar do dissipation shield), because it is strongly linked to :light production, so it would make sense.
Creature control. And I know what you're going to say, "but what if they're made untargetable?" Simple. Making them untargetable, either with Anubis or Aether Nymph or Quint will require the use of one or two more elements, which balances it out just fine. If someone is willing to use those extra elements, and actually manages to get the shield up and the creatures protected, then by all means, they SHOULD win the match.
Light Dragon + Luciferine/Light Nymph + Guardian Angel/Archangel requires only light, and is still HARD to counter with creature control. All these have a lot of hp and angels can deal with infection for a long time, so you either need a number of damaging spells or an already grown devouring creature or lobo to counter it, but still hard to counter in my opinion.
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I hereby present the only real evidence one can present in Elements. A deck that beats rainbow with mastery without playing any heals. (I know there's a miracle in my hand, and there are heals in the deck, you'll just have to trust me, I never used a heal.)
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3756/picture3mj.png) (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/picture3mj.png/)
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EPIC. Has this ever been done before? Maybe with an aether Phase Shield chain or something... regardless, this is epic. :) You just got the Icybraker Seal of Awesomeness.
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It's a pretty common deck idea, although I tend to prefer mine. Mind if I put your seal of awesomeness in my sig?
...unless you mean the rainbow win. It's probably been done.
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Mind if I put your seal of awesomeness in my sig?
Not at all, be my guest. Also, if you don't mind, please press [ + ] next to my Super Gullibility Points. I need more.
To keep this on topic:
This is the first shield that doesn't have a shield in its picture! :) What does everyone think of that?
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Yes Xinef, you're right, but what I've been trying to say is that it's not terribly OP.
So you're saying that it's OP, but not "terribly OP?" I know you kind of have a bias with it being your element and all, but... well, look at Glitch's screenshot. :o
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This is the first shield that doesn't have a shield in its picture! :) What does everyone think of that?
By this logic, neither does Bonewall.
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The creature control argument really breaks down when you think about the AI. It'll never target your RoL's when there's a dragon in play.
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This is the first shield that doesn't have a shield in its picture! :) What does everyone think of that?
I think it looks like a forcefield covering your body... a kind of bodyshield :P
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Creature control is one way around this, but how about just lobotomizer/Ulitharid? You don't need to knock out the creatures, you just need to get rid of their abilities. And usually RoL's/(skellies you can mass luciferin/rase) don't hurt too much and can be blocked/weakened by another shield, and dragons are still a force to be reckoned with whether or not they're producing light.
Of course Light Nymph kills this strategy, but that Nymph was looking to be completely useless anyhow (why would you need renewed luciferin, at a high cost, when the card is already free?)
I think Light needed Hope. I had dismissed luciferin as pretty much useless (aside from a light splash for miracle), and the Light Nymph as even more useless (again, why do you need repeat castings of luciferin for the expense of a nymph.) Hope pretty much saves bioluminescence.
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So you want to Lobotomize 23 creatures? Be my guest :P
Fire Storm or something to that effect would be your best bet if they're not Quinted. Regardless, although Hope does solve the bioluminescence problem, it is also quite powerful. Remove immaterial status, perhaps make it cost more, and I'll be fine with it. :)
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I don't think that would be impossible to do, icy. Think about it.
1. Light Nymph + Hope = major defense, good luck.
But otherwise...
2. In the case of RoL/luciferin spammable creatures are weak. They can easily be blocked by a shield so they aren't hurting you, therefore giving anyone with an eternity and a rewindable creature plenty of time to lobotomize them. Then you go for the kill. If you aren't killing the light spammers, they take up room on the board and your opponent can't play more of them. Yeah, they can cast luciferin/rase again and it'll suck butt while you lobotomize them all again, but light doesn't have permanent control so keep that permafrost/other shield up. And if they rewind, then you rewind as well, eventually they'll run out of luciferins/rases. Any deck with sustainable miracles was going to be a long eternity requiring fight anyways.
3. If they're luciferin/rasing dragons, your problem isn't so much cracking their shield, it's keeping yourself alive. (a.k.a. Hope will not be the reason why you lose). Whether or not the dragons produce light, I don't think that extra light will be the difference between you killing them before they kill you. You can either survive the dragons or you can't. Besides, if they can spam dragons they probably have miracle so they'll recover even if you were able to hit them hard.
I'm basically arguing that Hope is survivable as it is now, but I'm not arguing for/against a nerf. xD
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I guess you're right, but the fact that it's a shield not meant for offense basically means that it's survivable. ;) In your second case, I can't see how it is survivable at all.
And I guess your Lobo thing may work after all... but it's just insanely long and annoying. I'd rather just quit. :P
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Haha, that's my poor choice of words there, with "survivable" xD;; Beatable might have been a better choice.
And I agree, I would rather just quit because I think Hope will make fights horribly long. Hope + Miracle + SoD's = ??? Unless a nerf capped/changed Hope's ability, you could still PA it or run it multiple times and fights would still be extended drastically.
In my second case, you would eventually win when the opponent ran out of luciferins/rases and you could kill them with whatever you have. By that time you would either already have quit or would stick around for the kill after having spent all that time. xD
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I guess the best way to deal with a stalling hope deck would be to deck it out ;)
I guess it would be really hard to make a good non rainbow hope deck with eternity and enough quanta to use it, so we can hope most decks with hope will have no eternity. Hopefully ;)
So make a rainbow, take a permafrost, 6 SoGs, eternity, some creatures and a bond... and hope for your opponent to deck out.
So in conclusion, some people hope that hope gets nerfed, some people hope it does not, but we all hope to see new cards like hope, don't we? ;)
Also, I noticed Aflatoxine would be DAMN good against hope dekcs xD malignant cells have an ability, so cannot be luciferined, and will fill all fields so that your opponent can play no more dragons etc.
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I'd just like to say that I put together a Hope/Fractal/Anubis deck that, with only the RoLs upgraded, has gone 50% with the FG's I've played:
Miracle, Elidnis, Incarnate: Beaten.
Hermes, Graviton, Rainbow: Not Possible to Beat (simply because I have no protection for my Eternity in my deck.)
The only SS I got was beating Incarnate:(http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/img/m7Gbd52905/BeatsIncarnate.jpg) (http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/view/m7Gbd52905/BeatsIncarnate)
But it's shaping up to be a decent FG farmer with only the 6 upgrades. Games do take about 20 minutes, though. :)
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The nerfing has begun.
It is now 7 :light and blocks for N unupped and 8 :light and blocks for 1+N upped
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The nerfing has begun.
It is now 7 :light and blocks for N unupped and 8 :light and blocks for 1+N upped
Meh, I prefered the N+1 non upgraded and N+2; this way the AI can semi-effectively use them.
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It definitely needed to be nerfed. It would make FG farming too easy IMO. Most rainbow decks could just throw one in and swap out the elite FQ for a regular one. Getting the 5 light quanta would be no issue whatsoever. I use a altered version of PuppyChow's deck so swapping out the permafrost for hope is a no-brainer. Even at 8 quanta upped it doesn't seem that bad and am sure just doing that swap alone will add some nice percentage points to FG farming.
If it stays immaterial this shield will make Divine Glory a very beatable FG and most of the other FG's slightly easier.
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I still think "Hope" is not a good name for a shield, anyone?
And looks like the upgrade makes it worse. 1 more quanta for 1 more protection, when its target is massive protection? Why not put cost at 7 for both?
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i don't think it makes it worse. 1 more quanta to actually get it to at least block is definitely worth it. A -1 dmg reducer would still be helpful especially if you can't manage to get any light generating creatures up. Also i think there definitely needs to be some kind of cap on the damage reduction.
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Hope has been nerfed, changing first post image.
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Artwork is Awesome. Bit off put that Diamond shield costs more and will be less effective wiith little effort. Against decks without Creature control it'll be king. I like it. Maybe too strong for the environment at this time tho..
Hope has been nerfed, changing first post image.
This change puts things in balance I think. It has a strong effect but you have to work for it and the other shields are no longer obsolete. I'd say it looks good now.
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I also think it is a good card now. As it is a shield card, effectively it takes a fair bit of time in a standard Rainbow to get up to the point whereby one can use it effectively. You need 5 turns to get a -6 damage on Hope, and even then momentum creatures can easily rip past it if you do not have creature control. Phase shields and the like are still just as effective stalling methods until a bone wall is set up. I don't see myself changing my strategy to accommodate this new card in the near future.
I do think it is a good concept, and does give the light element a huge boost in power.
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...and even then momentum creatures can easily rip past it if you do not have creature control...
and someone breaks through the haze of ignorance.
TBH, since the Sundial nerf and the AI upgrade, FGs have been a losing battle overall. This evens it up. And in PvP situations, well, maybe you'll have to use Fire Bolt/Ice Bolt/Poison/Sapphire Charger/Momentum/Lightning, you know, all those cards that never got used...remember them?
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I also think it is a good card now. As it is a shield card, effectively it takes a fair bit of time in a standard Rainbow to get up to the point whereby one can use it effectively. You need 5 turns to get a -6 damage on Hope, and even then momentum creatures can easily rip past it if you do not have creature control. Phase shields and the like are still just as effective stalling methods until a bone wall is set up. I don't see myself changing my strategy to accommodate this new card in the near future.
I do think it is a good concept, and does give the light element a huge boost in power.
I agree. Its better with the rebalance. Its no longer a no-brainer to throw it into a standard Rainbow FG build with a regular fire queen. Now, by the time you have enough fireflies out to make hope powerful, it likely past the critical turning point of the match. Yeah, hope would be good at this point, but so is a bone wall. A strong Bone Wall is actually better to soak up explosions so the FG doesn't go for your other critical permanents
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Litter on the Op side all you will need to do to build around this is unupped fire queens friefly= light emitting creature=lots of them. It will be way easier then trying ray of lights cause you can just keep making fireflys
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Litter on the Op side all you will need to do to build around this is unupped fire queens friefly= light emitting creature=lots of them. It will be way easier then trying ray of lights cause you can just keep making fireflys
You lose out significantly on offence. No matter how much damage reduction on Hope, you can't kill Fire Queen if she has a whole field of FireFlies out, while she can one hit you with a Fire Lance. Although technically you really only need 3 LightFlies out against Fire Queen, it shows how too much defence could effectively kill you if you can't balance the offence that is coming in and going out.
Gemini, Graviton and Obliterator, all 3 using "Unstoppable" momentum cards, will put a serious dent in your "Hope" shield. This is coupled with the fact that it is not very easy to Creature Control some of these Gods without drawing a specific set of cards (Eternity + PA, Eagle's Eyes + PA + Quint + Oty, Quint+Oty+Fire Storm, etc) and in the process of waiting out for a means to destroy these sources of damage, you could seriously suffer. Of course, the same fate may await those who use other methods of stalling, but seriously, a Phase Shield would work out better here.
ATM, I think people are overestimating the effectiveness of the card. There are so many ways to counter it, and the same ways to counter Hope are the same ways to counter Phase Shields, Sundials and whatnot. A quinted, momentum Fire Spirit would wreak havoc. In most standard rainbows, 2 FFQ for lightflies is redundant.
Only a niche deck will be able to capitalise on the effects of Hope, and using these niche decks poses a new set of problems.
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This may be the best shield, and I think it might be too good......
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use hope with the other in developenment card Fractal and ray of light
=speedy defence setup
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6 gold dragons and photons + this + bio lum and your set to win.
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I've been playtesting this fairly exensively, and I have to say that I think the double-whammy of increasing the cost AND reducing the damage reduced is overkill. As it stands, Hope just costs too much for what it does. The unupgraded version shouldn't cost more than 5, and the upgrade no more than 7 -- maybe even 6.
With a cost as high as it is, it takes too long to get set up with enough light-emitting creatures AND the card in hand AND 8 :light quanta -- by the time you get there, you're dead. Against decks with no creature control, it's a dream because the light-emitting creatures can help pay for it, but how many decks come with no creature control? Being an auto-win against Ferox, Paradox, and Miracle* isn't worth being useless in almost every other PvP and FG fight.
*Until he triple-Blesses a Light Dragon and walks right over your 12-point Hope regardless.
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I've been playtesting this fairly exensively, and I have to say that I think the double-whammy of increasing the cost AND reducing the damage reduced is overkill. As it stands, Hope just costs too much for what it does. The unupgraded version shouldn't cost more than 5, and the upgrade no more than 7 -- maybe even 6.
With a cost as high as it is, it takes too long to get set up with enough light-emitting creatures AND the card in hand AND 8 :light quanta -- by the time you get there, you're dead. Against decks with no creature control, it's a dream because the light-emitting creatures can help pay for it, but how many decks come with no creature control? Being an auto-win against Ferox, Paradox, and Miracle* isn't worth being useless in almost every other PvP and FG fight.
*Until he triple-Blesses a Light Dragon and walks right over your 12-point Hope regardless.
I think that was the point of the change. Making the shield too strong gives it a huge advantage over other choices of defence, while the way it is now tends to make it a little more of a circumstantial card. A deck centering around the usage of Hope and Biolum creatures would work very well in this scenario, but a Rainbow will not enjoy the same effective benefits without shifting the core from creature control and stalling to setting up a strong Hope.
It melds well with the Light Element, as the RoL can feed Hope. Of course, that means that Hope as an unupgraded deck component is going to suffer tremendously.
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Aaaand Luciferine will get some love :)
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If FG deck doesnt need eternity combo (endless recycle) then clearly turtle shield is the best !!!!!! (if you use empathy / SoG to heal)
I dont see me using hope in FG deck, but fractual ray of light deck could still be fun
Or use hope ray of light to stall, mark of water for a nymph tear to make white nymph hahaaha
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Aaaand Luciferine will get some love :)
I never tested, but if i have 1 malignant cell, lucierine it, does all the new cell produce light
simliar if i get rain of fire, 1 cell never dies, does that cell still keep have new cell producing light?
That would be fun !!!
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Aaaand Luciferine will get some love :)
I never tested, but if i have 1 malignant cell, lucierine it, does all the new cell produce light
simliar if i get rain of fire, 1 cell never dies, does that cell still keep have new cell producing light?
That would be fun !!!
No because malignant cell already has an ability (infest) :P :P :P
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Aaaand Luciferine will get some love :)
I doubt it. Luciferine just adds another card that you have to have in deck and then in hand before the Hope combo goes off. I've tried sooo many mono-X decks with a bunch of unskilled creatures, Luciferine, and Hope, and it's just not stable enough. It takes too long to get enough creatures out to Luciferine and then work up enough Light quanta through Luciferine to pay for Hope, and then you have to have your creatures survive to keep Hope up.
Maybe if Luciferine was like Precognition (so it didn't cost you a card), it would be good, but as is...it's just not.
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well, how about light nymph? :P
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Maybe if Luciferine was like Precognition (so it didn't cost you a card), it would be good, but as is...it's just not.
You, my friend, are on to something. Of course, then Luciferin would need to have a casting cost, and a specific one to boot. Not sure if that would be better or worse.
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or you could use Light/life to Luciferine Horned Frogs and Adrenaline them for 4 light a turn o.0
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Would be nice if luciferase healed creature poison or something...
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Light does not need a boost.It is already good and this card is not that good.I would like another card than this.
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Light does not need a boost.It is already good and this card is not that good.I would like another card than this.
You should load up the trainer and try it out. Getting a 10+ shield is pretty darn satisfying.
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lol i know i had 16 shield
:D NO DEATH FOR ME!
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Light does not need a boost.It is already good and this card is not that good.I would like another card than this.
So, you say Light is good already? I suppose your not even using Light... *Sigh*
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i can see a light/death combo coming along
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i can see a light nymph/death nymph combo brewing
Aaaand Luciferine will get some love :)
I never tested, but if i have 1 malignant cell, lucierine it, does all the new cell produce light
simliar if i get rain of fire, 1 cell never dies, does that cell still keep have new cell producing light?
That would be fun !!!
No because malignant cell already has an ability (infest) :P :P :P
I can't.
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I like the card, but I don't like mathematical variables and equations in card text. It looks out of place, makes it harder to figure out what the card does, and is usually a sign that you're doing something too complicated. Fortunately, this one looks like an easy fix.
Old Description
Shield: physical damage reduced by N. N is the number of your light emitting creatures. Immaterial.
New Description
Shield: Reduces physical damage by 1 for each of your light emitting creatures. Immaterial.
New Description (upgraded)
Shield: Reduces physical damage by 1, plus 1 more for each of your light emitting creatures. Immaterial.
It's not an important thing, but I think it reads better this way.
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So... Is the upgrade really worth it? I mean, it costs more, and 1 more defense isn't that much when you can easily have 10+ defense.
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Not always easily - you either play RoL and have high defense early, but risk creature control (a thunderstorm, and this 1 defense helps once again), or you play unupped FFQ or bigger luciferined creatures, or immortal creatures or whatever and then it takes time to build up hope, so 1 defense helps in the beginning (of course in some decks being able to play hope one turn earlier might help better)
So, basically both version have advantages depending on your strategy.
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i think that Hope is a great card, BUT i am sure that it is too strong, most of the decks simply cannot do anything about it.
I came up with an idea, in my opinion it's formula should be changed from "damage reduced by" which sets a limit of damage your creatures need to overcome, and that gets nearly impossible.
to "absorbs x damage for every light emitting.."
I think that 2 damages for every ligthing creature would keep it the best shield and on the same time leave a reaction spot on the long run.
Upgraded could be even 3 damage per creature.
I think that this idea should be given some consideration, becouse the shield doesn't get a true nerf, but the others get a chance.
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i think that Hope is a great card, BUT i am sure that it is too strong, most of the decks simply cannot do anything about it.
I came up with an idea, in my opinion it's formula should be changed from "damage reduced by" which sets a limit of damage your creatures need to overcome, and that gets nearly impossible.
to "absorbs x damage for every light emitting.."
I think that 2 damages for every ligthing creature would keep it the best shield and on the same time leave a reaction spot on the long run.
Upgraded could be even 3 damage per creature.
I think that this idea should be given some consideration, becouse the shield doesn't get a true nerf, but the others get a chance.
Man, that's UP. The way it is now isn't OP. All light emmitting creatures can bew wiped out by ANY control card. And if you want to use Luciferin, you might get clogged hands. Also, if you manage to get 3 Luciferin'd dragons, you deserve to win the game.
P.S.: Thanks to Jmizzle7 for moving the thread (before I had time to) :)
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Then most decks don't have any sort of permanent control? Earth, Fire, Entropy, and Darkness all have ways of disabling or defeating permanents.
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Then most decks don't have any sort of permanent control? Earth, Fire, Entropy, and Darkness all have ways of disabling or defeating permanents.
Erm coinich, it's immaterial.
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i think that Hope is a great card, BUT i am sure that it is too strong, most of the decks simply cannot do anything about it.
I came up with an idea, in my opinion it's formula should be changed from "damage reduced by" which sets a limit of damage your creatures need to overcome, and that gets nearly impossible.
to "absorbs x damage for every light emitting.."
I think that 2 damages for every ligthing creature would keep it the best shield and on the same time leave a reaction spot on the long run.
Upgraded could be even 3 damage per creature.
I think that this idea should be given some consideration, becouse the shield doesn't get a true nerf, but the others get a chance.
Man, that's UP. The way it is now isn't OP. All light emmitting creatures can bew wiped out by ANY control card. And if you want to use Luciferin, you might get clogged hands. Also, if you manage to get 3 Luciferin'd dragons, you deserve to win the game.
P.S.: Thanks to Jmizzle7 for moving the thread (before I had time to) :)
not overpowered? fire storm can destroy some, thunderstorm is too weak, all the others can deal with just one creature. that shield if used properly is able to get a damage reduction of more than 12.
Since permanent control is pointless and creature control isn't enough to get rid of it but can just reduce it's effect i guess that's a bit too much of a wall.
No really, u deserve to win the game when u are good enough to overcome tha opponent, so many times i had a perfect game and lost anyway.. that's the spirit of the game, you can't say if u put a couple of dragons and that shield you deserve to win..
I say that again, 2 or 3 damages absorbed for every light emitting creature is just fine, the power it has now is much more than most of the rares have.
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not overpowered? fire storm can destroy some, thunderstorm is too weak, all the others can deal with just one creature. that shield if used properly is able to get a damage reduction of more than 12.
Since permanent control is pointless and creature control isn't enough to get rid of it but can just reduce it's effect i guess that's a bit too much of a wall.
No really, u deserve to win the game when u are good enough to overcome tha opponent, so many times i had a perfect game and lost anyway.. that's the spirit of the game, you can't say if u put a couple of dragons and that shield you deserve to win..
I say that again, 2 or 3 damages absorbed for every light emitting creature is just fine, the power it has now is much more than most of the rares have.
Thunderstorm is enough to kill a Ray of Light, which is probably the best creature to use with hope. If you are using unupped FFQ to generate fireflys then kill either FFQ (if you have spells/abilites that kill a single creature like gravity pull or firebolt) or deal 2 damage to fireflys (RoF, plague, fire shield, thorn carapace, two thunderstorms). Also FFQ version lacks heavy hitters, so it is easy to block with damage reducing shields.
Luciferined eclipsed skeletons might be a bit tougher, but I guess it has similar weaknesses as FFQ.
And luciferined dragons... have you ever fought an opponent with 12 luciferined dragons at once?
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I don't know why, but some posts suggest hope is easy to counter with creature control...
Upgraded it gives 2 protection even without any light emitting creatures! An indestructible shield with 2 protection is very good in itself, greatly reducing damage from Fire Queen, Incarnate, Ferox, Morte, burrowed shriekers, puffer fishes etc. making it great for early game, before you can play those light emitting creatures (of course if you have an early source of light, so better for rainbows than FFQ for example). Add some SoG's and sundials, and it greatly helps to survive until you can play some quinted source of light, luciferined drags, light nymph+skeletons, whatever... it seems to be equally powerful as a bone wall in late game, but better in early game.
Upgraded on its own its protects vs 1 damage not 2.
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You qouted a post written before it was nerfed (while it was still only available in trainer). At first it was cheaper and protected 1+N unupped, 2+N upped.
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People who say this card is OP, it isn't really. the only natural light emitting creature is Ray of Light, and most creatures have an ability, so Luciferin isn't so powerful. Plus, if the creatures are destroyed, it is rather useless
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Nope, Firefly has this ability as well.
And xdude, whoops! I guess immaterial could make a difference...
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People who say this card is OP, it isn't really. the only natural light emitting creature is Ray of Light, and most creatures have an ability, so Luciferin isn't so powerful. Plus, if the creatures are destroyed, it is rather useless
Firefly unupped generates light...
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This card is very powerful
But with such a high cost, its not OP for sure
And xdude needs a boost :o
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Whoops, I play Elite queen usually so I forgot about unupped. Still, FFQ decks generally don't need much help usually, and momentum completely nullifies this card for the given creature.
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I think there should be a cap for the protection.
I suggest 2 or 3 for unupped and 3 or 4 for upped version.
And perhaps not +1 for every light producing creature, but for every second or third.
Rainbow Decks with FFQ and normal FFQ decks could become almost invincible in the late game.
This card can completely kill the FFQ god , Divine Glory and perhaps many other god decks
It would be a good effect for the Solar Shield as well, cause the name would also fit.
The creatures produce the light to protect you.
I really have to agree with the cap. I have a FFQ deck and use Eagles Eye as creature control. I have no means of killing the Queens that it had out and was good for ten turns. I had enough heals to last me a long time. But it was pretty much an autowin for it. And to me that doesn't seem fair or fun. I knew I was going to lose and no means of winning with however many turns it had left before it's sheild effects wore off. Definitely not like disipation sheild.
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I think there should be a cap for the protection.
I suggest 2 or 3 for unupped and 3 or 4 for upped version.
And perhaps not +1 for every light producing creature, but for every second or third.
Rainbow Decks with FFQ and normal FFQ decks could become almost invincible in the late game.
This card can completely kill the FFQ god , Divine Glory and perhaps many other god decks
It would be a good effect for the Solar Shield as well, cause the name would also fit.
The creatures produce the light to protect you.
I really have to agree with the cap. I have a FFQ deck and use Eagles Eye as creature control. I have no means of killing the Queens that it had out and was good for ten turns. I had enough heals to last me a long time. But it was pretty much an autowin for it. And to me that doesn't seem fair or fun. I knew I was going to lose and no means of winning with however many turns it had left before it's sheild effects wore off. Definitely not like disipation sheild.
Here. The shield is great vs decks with no creature control, like your one happens to be. Just because you lost, it doesn't mean the shield is OP.
Also, if you had creature control, especially mass creature control, you would've totally destroyed the deck. Just remember, if you have no way of stopping something, it doesn't mean it's OP.
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I'm not a huge advocate of hope just because it was solely made to go with RoL. Your never gonna see hope in any other deck other that the current one, its not versatile at all. Its not like it made playing light any better, it just created a single deck and thats all its ever used for.
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But What Exactly Is A Light Emiting Creature? I play 3 Golden Dragons With A hope Card and The Damage Still Comes in Form A Creature With 3 Attack power?
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But What Exactly Is A Light Emiting Creature? I play 3 Golden Dragons With A hope Card and The Damage Still Comes in Form A Creature With 3 Attack power?
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/RayofLight.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Firefly.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Luciferin.png)
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this card screws over false gods without mass destruction with RoL/Fractal
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this card screws over false gods without mass destruction with RoL/Fractal
Yes, it truly does :D
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I just got this card from a spin, and I'm fairy new to this game. I don't have any plan on going light for my deck so should I sell it? It's worth a lot and it's rare so I'm not sure :S
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Don't sell it!
Hope is great in a False God deck. Unless you're never, ever going to make a False God deck (which is highly recommended as part of the Elements experience), I suggest you keep your Hope. Of course, there are other false god decks, but the Hope one is great as well.
Yeah. Keep it.
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Except it's not a rare.
If you need the money now, sell it, you can always buy it later.
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I do kind of need the money, I was planning on going the rainbow false god deck, and hope doesn't seem to be a component to it.
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this card has a song!!! :P
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Even though instosis>RoL/Hope, the latter deck is to this day one of my all time favorite decks, and it's so ridiculously fun to use.
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I like the avatar, and think that is a fair card.
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If this is a Buff, i agree. Hope is overpowered some times depending on the time spent in the game.