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Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Level 4 - Reliquary => Topic started by: moomoose on June 30, 2011, 09:36:38 pm

Title: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on June 30, 2011, 09:36:38 pm
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Reliquary/Psionist.png)
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Reliquary/Psion.png)
NAME:
Psionist
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 4
TEXT:
Psionist's attacks deal spell damage
NAME:
Psion
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6 | 6
TEXT:
Psion's attacks deal spell damage

ART:
vrt (w/ moomoose modifications)
IDEA:
moomoose
NOTES:
refreshed the art to as it would potentially look in game (which is why there is no art credit on the image itself)
SERIES:


Original:

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/633/psionist.png)
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1923/psionu.png)
NAME:
Psionist
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4|4
TEXT:
Psionist's attacks deal spell damage
NAME:
Psion
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6|4
TEXT:
Psion's attacks deal spell damage
ART:
littlemunster http://littlemunster.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24#/d1r2zmf with consent
IDEA:
moomoose
NOTES:
This creature deals spell damage rather than physical damage, ignoring many shields.  Also as a result, however, when this creature attacks a player with a spell reflect shield, it effectively attacks its owner instead.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Rutarete on July 01, 2011, 02:48:39 am
Very clever and interesting variation on momentum. I like it.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on July 01, 2011, 03:16:40 am
Following its progress. It is balanced (see the IF Mind element project for the balance discussion).
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: storyteller on July 01, 2011, 04:54:17 am
crafty, annoying and combos well with high damage creatures. causes a shift in the use of shields. very nice.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: DrOctaganapus2 on July 01, 2011, 04:57:40 am
I like this.

Few things:

1. If antimattered. Lets say this was an opponents and I had a reflect shield. Would this force heal me or the enemy.
2. Same but Liquid Shadow was applied?
3. Was this made so that if this was made in the game (which I hope) to convice players reflect shields are helpful?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: SnoWeb on July 01, 2011, 08:32:15 am
This is very clever. Very good work. The wording might be a bit confusing however.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 01, 2011, 11:55:54 am
1. If antimattered. Lets say this was an opponents and I had a reflect shield. Would this force heal me or the enemy.
2. Same but Liquid Shadow was applied?
3. Was this made so that if this was made in the game (which I hope) to convice players reflect shields are helpful?
1) count it as a (weak) heal spell for you, essentially. my current understanding of reflect shields is that they do not discern between good/bad spells from your opponent, they just reflect everything.
2) a) you do damage to yourself b) enemy reflects the heal c) the heal heals you = net zero effect
3) that was part of it, i figured it may make other elements say "hey, we want a reflect shield too" if these guys were running around.

as for what would happen if both players had reflect shields? whatever it currently does in game when spells are cast, go with that.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: kaiou on July 01, 2011, 12:05:13 pm
I really like this idea, it makes an underpowered shield stronger without breaking the game ^^
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Skolir on July 01, 2011, 12:19:57 pm
This card would finally add worth to owning a reflective shield. Nice.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Leo on July 01, 2011, 01:48:46 pm
Dear Zans,

add this card to the game.

Thanks,
The Playerbase.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 01, 2011, 04:03:13 pm
This is very clever. Very good work. The wording might be a bit confusing however.
yeah, its a bit difficult to concisely and clearly communicate it without using an improper tone in the card text.  i had considered adding in "instead of physical damage" at the end, but it seemed kind of out of place and potentially redundant.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Seraph on July 01, 2011, 04:20:47 pm
is it an active ability?
do you want to make it one?
or maybe a passive ability of :
"Deal 4 spell damage at the end of your turn"
but 0 attack
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: The_Mormegil on July 01, 2011, 04:23:02 pm
Dear Zans,

add this card to the game.

Thanks,
The Playerbase.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Uppercut on July 01, 2011, 04:23:50 pm
The 0 atk variant would dodge shields entirely which doesn't seem to be the intent.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 01, 2011, 04:27:29 pm
is it an active ability?
do you want to make it one?
or maybe a passive ability of :
"Deal 4 spell damage at the end of your turn"
but 0 attack
it is passive as is. a 0 atk version would be immune to antimatter, which isnt desirable for balancing purposes.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 06, 2011, 05:56:57 pm
first stop, level 1, allaboard - woo woo :)
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Bird man on July 11, 2011, 10:38:00 pm
Would this creature bypass all non-reflective sheilds?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 11, 2011, 10:40:32 pm
that's the idea
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: ddevans96 on July 11, 2011, 10:46:51 pm
moomoose, exactly how much advertising have you done for this?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 11, 2011, 10:55:24 pm
well, one semi-cheer in the level 1 thread aether (as permitted in the rules), and one bump-ish type post in this thread when this got into level 1 (is it advertising if it is in it's own thread?), one comment in chat linking level 1 forums reminding people to vote (voting has been rather poorly attended lately all around, and this is permitted in the rules)- if you consider that advertising.  and then i let it be until someone asked a question in here and then when i was asked how much advertising i had done shortly thereafter. - again, if you consider those advertising.

oh, and it had been in the idea factory for a while, but i dont know how many people actually followed that thread.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Toxx on August 10, 2011, 01:01:30 pm
Brilliant card idea and nice art work. Love this card concept
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Jappert on August 11, 2011, 07:22:37 pm
first stop, level 1, allaboard - woo woo :)
You got my vote. You're doing a great job coming up with interesting mechanics so far. This is my favorite though.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Chapuz on August 16, 2011, 09:47:44 pm
would it be OverPowered if making spell damage becomes an active ability? that would make the card stronger and immune to any shield
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on August 17, 2011, 12:33:32 am
would it be OverPowered if making spell damage becomes an active ability? that would make the card stronger and immune to any shield
It would not be overpowered however it would be less thematic and the activation cost would have to be 0. For immunity to all shields go with Momentum. For immunity to DR go with Psion.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: maverixk on August 17, 2011, 12:53:40 am
Dear Zans,

add this card to the game.

Thanks,
The Playerbase.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Skullgasm on September 17, 2011, 05:06:16 pm
What happens if you put momentum on it?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Chapuz on September 17, 2011, 07:08:17 pm
What happens if you put momentum on it?
no spell + no momentum = common creature damage

spell + no momentum = spell damage

no spell + momentum = ignore shield, common momentumed creature

spell + momentum + spell damage. As creatures with momentum don't attak when a spell (ex: sundial) is played, let's keep the spell priority vs. momentum. It's a skill, but says "spell damage".
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on September 17, 2011, 07:25:59 pm
What happens if you put momentum on it?
+1|+1 & Reflective Shield/Jade Shield no longer reflects the damage.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Kyura on October 04, 2011, 08:13:35 am
1. If antimattered. Lets say this was an opponents and I had a reflect shield. Would this force heal me or the enemy.
2. Same but Liquid Shadow was applied?
3. Was this made so that if this was made in the game (which I hope) to convice players reflect shields are helpful?
1) count it as a (weak) heal spell for you, essentially. my current understanding of reflect shields is that they do not discern between good/bad spells from your opponent, they just reflect everything.
2) a) you do damage to yourself b) enemy reflects the heal c) the heal heals you = net zero effect
3) that was part of it, i figured it may make other elements say "hey, we want a reflect shield too" if these guys were running around.

as for what would happen if both players had reflect shields? whatever it currently does in game when spells are cast, go with that.
just to clarify things, "Any Damage from Spells is reflected to opponent" is the mechanism of reflective shields so, no healing for you   :(

another thing on my mind, how would this match up against an enemy creature with Gravity Pull? by the mechanism, spells bypass non-reflective shields. but since Psion is effectively *attacking*, would Gravity Pull suck up the damage?  ::)
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on October 04, 2011, 06:42:07 pm
1. If antimattered. Lets say this was an opponents and I had a reflect shield. Would this force heal me or the enemy.
2. Same but Liquid Shadow was applied?
3. Was this made so that if this was made in the game (which I hope) to convice players reflect shields are helpful?
1) count it as a (weak) heal spell for you, essentially. my current understanding of reflect shields is that they do not discern between good/bad spells from your opponent, they just reflect everything.
2) a) you do damage to yourself b) enemy reflects the heal c) the heal heals you = net zero effect
3) that was part of it, i figured it may make other elements say "hey, we want a reflect shield too" if these guys were running around.

as for what would happen if both players had reflect shields? whatever it currently does in game when spells are cast, go with that.
just to clarify things, "Any Damage from Spells is reflected to opponent" is the mechanism of reflective shields so, no healing for you   :(

another thing on my mind, how would this match up against an enemy creature with Gravity Pull? by the mechanism, spells bypass non-reflective shields. but since Psion is effectively *attacking*, would Gravity Pull suck up the damage?  ::)
Did you check the effect of Holy Light vs Reflective Shield? If not then you should. (beta is loading too slowly for me to test it at this time)

Gravity Pull changes the Attack Target. Psion should IMHO attack the creature. However if that creature were immune to spell damage then Psion would not deal it any damage.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on October 04, 2011, 09:21:37 pm
holy light makes it say "reflect" but then heals anyway, so hes right on that one.

as far as gravity pull goes, my gut would say "does gravity pull make lightning cast against the opponent go to the creature with gravity pull?"
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: johannhowitzer on October 04, 2011, 09:27:07 pm
Spells aren't redirected to creatures, so I'm gonna say this will ignore a GP'd enemy creature and still go for the enemy player.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: russianspy1234 on October 04, 2011, 09:56:03 pm
definitely like this. aether needs a solid attack creature with an interesting effect and no immaterial.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: furballdn on October 04, 2011, 10:51:16 pm
I like this. It passes through some shields like ice shield and dimensional shield, but is bounced back by reflective shield and jade shield. Looks pretty balanced and awesome to me.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Chapuz on October 05, 2011, 01:17:14 am
I prefere the skill cost  :aether other than passive.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: BluexLightning on October 08, 2011, 05:18:57 pm
Card is confusing, what will happen if it is antimattered or has a vampie ability??
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on October 08, 2011, 05:22:15 pm
i dont see the conflict of having antimatter and/or liquid shadow applied to it in any way.  in other words- they do what they normally would do.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: elementarinous on October 18, 2011, 01:22:06 am
This is a clever idea. But I reckon it's just a little OP. I'd like to see this work. Maybe a little less HP or strength, or a little higher mana cost.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on October 29, 2011, 06:31:27 pm
This is a clever idea. But I reckon it's just a little OP. I'd like to see this work. Maybe a little less HP or strength, or a little higher mana cost.
Why do you think it is OP? Compare it to Charger.



Immortal is often seen (reasonably so) as subpar to Phase Dragon. Psionist might further marginalize Immortal. Depending on the severity this might create a new problem.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on October 29, 2011, 10:25:58 pm
i dont have a problem with immortal, personally.  it is a low cost immaterial creature that can provide damage while dim shield is up, and not draining the quanta too much, like phase dragon, to keep the dim shield chain going if you do have have excess pillars.

immortal is strong defensively and as such provides consistent offense for less cost than phase dragon.  psion is weaker defensively than immortal, but provides for a mechanism that may provide better offense, but with the drawback of potentially damaging their owner.  if anything, i would think they would function well together in a deck with dim shields, or separately in other decks.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on October 29, 2011, 10:37:09 pm
i dont have a problem with immortal, personally.  it is a low cost immaterial creature that can provide damage while dim shield is up, and not draining the quanta too much, like phase dragon, to keep the dim shield chain going if you do have have excess pillars.

immortal is strong defensively and as such provides consistent offense for less cost than phase dragon.  psion is weaker defensively than immortal, but provides for a mechanism that may provide better offense, but with the drawback of potentially damaging their owner.  if anything, i would think they would function well together in a deck with dim shields, or separately in other decks.
Theoretically Immortal is slightly weak compared to Phase Dragon. (see the buff thread for details)
Theoretically Psion is balanced and at a damage slot similar to Immortal. (Psion uses Evasion rather than Counterdefense)

I expect Psion to replace Immortal in most decks containing Phase Dragon. Would that leave Immortal with sufficient usage remaining?

Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on October 29, 2011, 10:47:00 pm
yeah, the damage/cost ratio of immortal is inferior to phase dragon, but you can in the same turn play both dim shield and an immortal in many situations where you could only play one of the two (phase dragon or dim shield).  so the lower cost actually in one sense is a benefit to immortal. not saying it couldnt use some love, but it does have at least one upside over the dragon.

phase spider already exists as a better atk/cost ratio creature than immortal.  so basically after adding in psion, you would have a choice between immortal, psion, and phase spider for a mid cost creature.  and as such there are a myriad of things to consider when picking from amongst them in terms of which one, or two, of them would best suit your deck.  do you need a creature for a stall deck? is wings part of that stall deck? does your deck not have a means to get around shields? do you want to minimize your creature's vulnerabilities? etc etc
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: waterzx on March 16, 2012, 03:01:18 am
A new Aether Shard called Shard of Wisdom is made.

The mechanics is similar to this card :)
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Cheesy111 on March 16, 2012, 03:04:50 am
A new Aether Shard called Shard of Wisdom is made.

The mechanics is similar to this card :)
Indeed, according to Zanzarino SoW is based on this card.  It will probably be moved to the Reliquary soon, assuming it was a significant influence on Zanz.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: waterzx on March 16, 2012, 03:06:10 am
Indeed, according to Zanzarino SoW is based on this card.  It will probably be moved to the Reliquary soon, assuming it was a significant influence on Zanz.
Reliquary, dream place for every card-maker....(Jealousy)

Anyway, Congratulations !

Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on March 16, 2012, 04:39:22 am
A new Aether Shard called Shard of Wisdom is made.

The mechanics is similar to this card :)
Indeed, according to Zanzarino SoW is based on this card.  It will probably be moved to the Reliquary soon, assuming it was a significant influence on Zanz.
Nice. Through the efforts of Idea Factory member moomoose, an idea created in the Idea Factory has impacted the game.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Xenocidius on March 16, 2012, 04:56:45 am
Yes, this thread will be moved to the Reliquary as soon as the new version goes live. Congratulations, moomoose!
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: waterzx on March 21, 2012, 02:23:08 am
Obviously I love the idea, would you say this was inspired by Shard of Knowledge http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28846.msg394171#msg394171 or Psion http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,28117.0.html ?
The shard was inspired by Psion, but, clearly, modified quite a bit. It is also not excluded, since the mechanics are now coded, that psion could be added to the game in a form more similar to the original idea.
Two cards added to the game !! You are legend !
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: vrt on April 10, 2012, 09:27:47 am
Needs more of this. ;D


(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/verticae/psion3.png)
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: SnoWeb on April 10, 2012, 09:45:31 am
Great art. I love it
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Xenocidius on April 10, 2012, 09:50:48 am
Seconded. Great art for a great card. Now that we have art, maybe Zanz will be able to implement this sooner!
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on April 10, 2012, 03:15:21 pm
i like it a lot- the ethereal vapors are especially awesome.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Rutarete on April 10, 2012, 05:32:38 pm
That has got to be one of my favorite pieces of art I've seen on the forum!
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on April 10, 2012, 09:41:11 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/hu3y3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/siWzJ.png)
NAME:
Psionist
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4 | 4
TEXT:
Psionist's attacks deal spell damage
NAME:
Psion
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
4 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
6 | 6
TEXT:
Psion's attacks deal spell damage

ART:
vrt
IDEA:
moomoose
NOTES:
refreshed the art to as it would potentially look in game (which is why there is no art credit on the image itself)
SERIES:

Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: n00b on April 10, 2012, 09:47:33 pm
As I said in chat, beautiful.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Kuroaitou on April 14, 2012, 07:14:19 pm
CONGRATULATIONS TO PSIONIST FOR MAKING IT TO THE RELIQUARY!  ;D

The following article can be found on the main page here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6851.msg73850.html#msg73850
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 14, 2012, 07:29:17 pm
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on April 14, 2012, 07:39:24 pm
Congrats moomoose! I hope we get to see more uses of spell damage within the game as an expansion to SoW and an (Possible) ingame Psion. :)
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: n00b on April 14, 2012, 07:41:20 pm
Grats Moo... good to see my favorite card idea by you make it this far... good job :)
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: mildlyfrightenedboy on April 27, 2012, 03:04:03 am
Does it take damage from Fire Buckler?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 27, 2012, 03:06:04 am
No, since Buckler blocks Physical, right?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on April 27, 2012, 03:59:39 am
its pretty simple, the only shields that interact with psion are mirror shield and jade shield.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: storyteller on April 27, 2012, 07:23:57 am
hmm, then does sundial block it? it even stops immaterial creatures? what about Procrastination? Does this effectively have momentum vs everything else? Just because it deal magic damage doesnt mean it isnt attacking? What about Fog and Dusk? those are percentages to simply be missed? How about wings? Is this a ranged attack? I think perhaps a few other shields could affect it. What if you buff it, then does gravity shield work?

Does the reflected damage hit the Psion's owner or the Psion?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Kuroaitou on April 27, 2012, 07:28:28 am
hmm, then does sundial block it? it even stops immaterial creatures? what about Procrastination? Does this effectively have momentum vs everything else? Just because it deal magic damage doesnt mean it isnt attacking? What about Fog and Dusk? those are percentages to simply be missed? How about wings? Is this a ranged attack? I think perhaps a few other shields could affect it. What if you buff it, then does gravity shield work?

Does the reflected damage hit the Psion's owner or the Psion?

It would mostly likely hit the owner.

Basically, think of Psion as having momentum but casting Lightning to penetrate shields; Reflective and Jade Shield redirect Psion's damage back to the enemy, but all other shields are bypassed normally. Sundial affects all attacking creatures equally, and thus, Psion won't attack when one of those are in play.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on April 27, 2012, 07:49:43 am
hmm, then does sundial block it? it even stops immaterial creatures? what about Procrastination? Does this effectively have momentum vs everything else? Just because it deal magic damage doesnt mean it isnt attacking? What about Fog and Dusk? those are percentages to simply be missed? How about wings? Is this a ranged attack? I think perhaps a few other shields could affect it. What if you buff it, then does gravity shield work?

Does the reflected damage hit the Psion's owner or the Psion?
Sundial prevent creatures from attacking. Psion is a creature.
Psion ignores all shield effects except "Reflection" from Emerald Shield and Reflective Shield.
Reflection causes Psion to attack its controller.
Psion will not be reflected twice even if both players have Reflective Shield.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on April 27, 2012, 01:49:10 pm
the psion is in the trainer at the moment, feel free to try it out if you still need clarifications.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: blarp on May 11, 2012, 03:06:27 am
I like this card but 6|6 for an aether guy is pretty defence heavy. With fractals this thing could easily be broken. My fractal phase recluse deck is hard to beat and it doesn't have momentum built in and the creatures aren't really buff'd :P
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 11, 2012, 03:07:44 am
The actual card that is to be implemented took a nerf, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: OldTrees on May 11, 2012, 03:11:13 am
I like this card but 6|6 for an aether guy is pretty defence heavy. With fractals this thing could easily be broken. My fractal phase recluse deck is hard to beat and it doesn't have momentum built in and the creatures aren't really buff'd :P
Fractal Aether is hard to build, is severely nerfed and Psions cost more than Recluses.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Cheesy111 on June 02, 2012, 05:05:44 am
I like this card but 6|6 for an aether guy is pretty defence heavy. With fractals this thing could easily be broken. My fractal phase recluse deck is hard to beat and it doesn't have momentum built in and the creatures aren't really buff'd :P
Fractal Aether is hard to build, is severely nerfed and Psions cost more than Recluses.
Hard to build, yes.  Severely nerfed...I'm not sure.  Psions are much more reliable than recluses against any sort of CC and avoid most relevant shields.  I would rather play a fractal psion deck than a fractal recluse deck in BL.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: ash le sombre on June 03, 2012, 11:46:20 am
Nice card, good job !
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Ovadosin on July 07, 2012, 03:39:11 am
this is a very interesting card i cant wait to design a deck using it.
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: Bloom on July 27, 2012, 05:44:48 pm
Was the naming of this card supposed to be a play on words with Zionist and Zion?
Title: Re: Psionist | Psion
Post by: moomoose on July 27, 2012, 06:00:21 pm
Definitions
Wiktionary

    n. Someone psionic. i.e. Someone exhibiting conscious control of psychic, telepathic, or paranormal phenomena.
    n. A character in a Role Playing Game (RPG) using psionics.

blarg: