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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg494817#msg494817
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 10:05:52 am »
Great idea, however it is a little OP, it needs a little higher cost or worse atk|hp statistics. And what about stealing? Is it going to return to your hand, or is it just stolen? I am asking this because, according to game mechanics, a stolen permanent is destoyed first and recreated right after on the other side of the field.
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Offline moomooseTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg494858#msg494858
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 01:03:41 pm »
read the notes, por favor
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Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg494859#msg494859
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 01:11:10 pm »
the card is awesome but it makes the guard an even more useless card in  :gravity, as this would clearly replace him as a cheap critter with a very useful ability

Offline moomooseTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg494861#msg494861
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 01:18:02 pm »
the guard is entirely useless as is and in line for a buff of some sort independent of this card idea.  graviton carrier is one idea which featured the guards to make them more used, but not more useful.

the statistics are in line with the cost of the card, its in the ballpark of what i had in mind.  i really dont feel like going through and doing minor adjustments to stats when zanz himself is clearly capable, and has a history of, changing the stats to put them where he feels they should be.  im just putting the mechanic out there.
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Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg494880#msg494880
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2012, 02:11:03 pm »
the guard is entirely useless as is and in line for a buff of some sort independent of this card idea.  graviton carrier is one idea which featured the guards to make them more used, but not more useful.

the statistics are in line with the cost of the card, its in the ballpark of what i had in mind.  i really dont feel like going through and doing minor adjustments to stats when zanz himself is clearly capable, and has a history of, changing the stats to put them where he feels they should be.  im just putting the mechanic out there.

i would love to see something close to your idea as a buff to the guard in the upcoming patch, solving 2 big issues: usefulness of the guard and the need of anti-PC tactics

Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg494893#msg494893
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2012, 02:52:50 pm »
read the notes, por favor

Yeah, I'm sorry, I completely missed the phrase where it declares that steals doesn't apply with this card. About Graviton Mercenary/Guard, I don't think it is completely useless, since it can make a few good combos with Adrenaline/Epinerphine, but he needs a buff for sure.
About Salvager, keep up the good work, Moomoose!
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg495435#msg495435
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2012, 08:57:56 am »
I definitely like the idea of having an additional permanent protection mechanism, though I'm a little iffy on having them return directly to your hand I can see why it may be better than deck to keep it from being abused as a means of preventing deck out. I'm also a little worried that this will overshadow enchant artifact a bit. Maybe give it a high (but not 100%) chance of activating or else limit the number of times it can salvage each round.
Otherwise, I really like this one. It will make  :fire users work a little harder to shred through your permanents and help deal with shards of focus and earthquakes. Seems like a good idea to me.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 08:59:29 am by OdinVanguard »
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Offline Poker Alho

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg495626#msg495626
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2012, 05:03:33 pm »
I definitely like the idea of having an additional permanent protection mechanism, though I'm a little iffy on having them return directly to your hand I can see why it may be better than deck to keep it from being abused as a means of preventing deck out. I'm also a little worried that this will overshadow enchant artifact a bit. Maybe give it a high (but not 100%) chance of activating or else limit the number of times it can salvage each round.
Otherwise, I really like this one. It will make  :fire users work a little harder to shred through your permanents and help deal with shards of focus and earthquakes. Seems like a good idea to me.

chance to miss is a random thing, thus it belongs more to  :entropy, but i like your idea of one salvager being able to only recover a permanent a turn, wich indirectly makes the player wanting more than just 1 copy of the card in the field. basically the more there are, the more protected you are

EDIT: maybe giving him an ability to protect a target permanent you control, a zero-cost ability (because PA only costs 1 and protects permantly) but make it burrowed, halving its attack when its protecting the permanent. just an idea
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 05:07:02 pm by Poker Alho »

Offline Absol

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg495629#msg495629
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2012, 05:13:48 pm »
Does this stack? Will a single permanent destroyed gives 2 copies when 2 of these are on the field?
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg495651#msg495651
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2012, 06:42:09 pm »

chance to miss is a random thing, thus it belongs more to  :entropy, but i like your idea of one salvager being able to only recover a permanent a turn, wich indirectly makes the player wanting more than just 1 copy of the card in the field. basically the more there are, the more protected you are

EDIT: maybe giving him an ability to protect a target permanent you control, a zero-cost ability (because PA only costs 1 and protects permantly) but make it burrowed, halving its attack when its protecting the permanent. just an idea
Yes, randomness is more of an entropy thing, but fate egg is random and purely  :time ... But the chance to fail is just an example. As long as a single salvager won't protect every permanent in your possession indefinitely it will be all good. That's my main concern, so anything to that effect works for me.
Plus, like you said, it will encourage the player to have out more than one at a time.
So maybe something like:
"Salvaging:
Return permanents you own to your hand if destroyed, up to N times per a turn."
Where N can be set to whatever the author / community thinks will make it well balanced.
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Offline moomooseTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg495732#msg495732
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2012, 09:01:27 pm »
i probably will not be altering the mechanic.  it already has built in balancing mechanics- you have to pay to play the permanents again, the permanents being added to your hand can prevent your next draw, the permanents added to your hand can be added to the top of your deck and slow you similarly to rewind, and you very well may end up discarding the permanent anyway after your hand fills up if you are unable to pay to play the permanent again.  this card effectively turns permanent removal into permanent rewind, with the modification that they enter your hand before overflowing into your deck.
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Offline storyteller

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Re: Graviton Salvager | Graviton Salvager http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39851.msg495815#msg495815
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2012, 10:50:03 pm »
I think if your hand is full they should be lost, or just go straight to your deck.

 

anything
blarg: