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Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Level 3 - Armory => Topic started by: Essence on March 20, 2010, 12:58:32 am

Title: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf [Legacy - Armory]
Post by: Essence on March 20, 2010, 12:58:32 am
CURATOR COMMENT:

Due to the original image's host being taken down I've replaced the art field with artless copies. May replace with arted copies later.


Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
(http://i.imgur.com/X38ce42.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ujPkDDX.png)
NAME: Alpha Wolf
ELEMENT: Life
COST: 5 :life
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 2|2
ABILITY: When Alpha Wolf enters play,
summon 2 Pack Wolves.
NAME: Elite Alpha Wolf
ELEMENT: Life
COST: 5 :life
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 3|2
ABILITY: When Alpha Wolf enters
play, summon 2 Pack
Wolves.
ART: Essence, modified from flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dalliedee/2993568176/sizes/l/in/photostream/) (rights to modify explicitly given.)
IDEA: Essence
NOTES: - Pack Wolves Noted Below
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134986/Pack_Wolf.png) (http://imageplay.net/)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134988/Elite_Pack_Wolf.png) (http://imageplay.net/)
NAME: Pack Wolf
ELEMENT: Life
COST: 1 :life
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 2|1
ABILITY:
NAME: Pack Wolf
ELEMENT: Life
COST: 0
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 2|1
ABILITY:
ART: Modified from Wikimedia Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canis_Lupus_Signatus.JPG)
IDEA: Essence
NOTES: - Created by Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf and available standalone as well.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: NeedForTorque on March 20, 2010, 01:05:24 am
Great cards. Like you said, It'll be great for a Mono-Life deck with 2 or 3 Feral Bonds.

Oh, and congratulations on learning how to use Pixlr.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Wisemage on March 20, 2010, 02:04:40 am
idk, 4 life quanta for 7 damage, thats a bit much dont you think, although that frog is 2 for 5 right?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on March 20, 2010, 03:00:22 am
I like the card. Simple, yet offers many deckbuilding options, and on top of that the theme fits perfectly.

What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

P.s. the quantum icon in the top-right corner is on the wrong side of the number :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Bloodshadow on March 20, 2010, 03:40:46 am
How about nerfing it to something like this:

When Wolf comes into play, create another copy of Wolf.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Glitch on March 20, 2010, 03:58:43 am
Naw, just up the cost of Alpha wolf.... a lot.

Maybe make alpha a 2|1, and pack wolves 1|1?

Just out of curiosity, why is this card weaker than a frog?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 20, 2010, 11:19:11 pm
What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

OK, I don't get it.  2 :life for 5/3  -- which is 30 damage for 12 quanta -- is totally cool, but 42 damage for 24 quanta (a much worse ratio) is imbalanced?

42 damage for 24 quantum is easy-peasy -- 6x Phase Recluse.  7x6=42 damage, 4x6=24 quanta.  And 18 creatures for 24 quantum isn't really too big a deal either when you consider that 6x Elite Deja Vu gives you 12 creatures (and 24 damage) for 12 quanta.   So the numbers don't back you up.


The synergy is the only thing that could be overpowered about it, and seriously, you'd have to actually draw through your deck in order to see the full power of it -- how often does that happen in mono-Life? -- or build a deck specifically around this one card and it's synergies, which would in the end be no stronger than any other similar deck because it would have so many vulnerabilities: (Thunderstorm/Plague/RoF), any repeatable creature control (Oty/EE/Maxwell's), permanent control (Pulvy/Butterly/Steal/Deflag on the Bonds), any 2-damage shield...there's just too many counters to get your panties in a twist about it.  Heck, without even trying, I just rattled off counters from :entropy :air :death :fire :gravity and :darkness.  I'm sure there's more if someone actually wants to THINK about it.

Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on March 21, 2010, 01:10:14 pm
What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

OK, I don't get it.  2 :life for 5/3  -- which is 30 damage for 12 quanta -- is totally cool, but 42 damage for 24 quanta (a much worse ratio) is imbalanced?

42 damage for 24 quantum is easy-peasy -- 6x Phase Recluse.  7x6=42 damage, 4x6=24 quanta.  And 18 creatures for 24 quantum isn't really too big a deal either when you consider that 6x Elite Deja Vu gives you 12 creatures (and 24 damage) for 12 quanta.   So the numbers don't back you up.


The synergy is the only thing that could be overpowered about it, and seriously, you'd have to actually draw through your deck in order to see the full power of it -- how often does that happen in mono-Life? -- or build a deck specifically around this one card and it's synergies, which would in the end be no stronger than any other similar deck because it would have so many vulnerabilities: (Thunderstorm/Plague/RoF), any repeatable creature control (Oty/EE/Maxwell's), permanent control (Pulvy/Butterly/Steal/Deflag on the Bonds), any 2-damage shield...there's just too many counters to get your panties in a twist about it.  Heck, without even trying, I just rattled off counters from :entropy :air :death :fire :gravity and :darkness.  I'm sure there's more if someone actually wants to THINK about it.
Instantly creating 18 creatures with only 6 cards and 24 quantum is the worst part. Them doing 42 damage is just added bonus which makes things ever worse.

Too bad we don't have this is trainer or something. Otherwise I could show you what I mean.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: omerbey on March 21, 2010, 01:16:40 pm
having multiple "alpha" wolves sounds weird.

I think it should simply be: wolf
if there are no other wolves in play, it becomes alpha wolf.

alpha wolf has the ability  :life :life generate wolf
and stat 5|2

when alpha wolf is killed, another wolf becomes the alpha wolf.

Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 21, 2010, 08:15:34 pm
The whole scenario I was trying to avoid was to have another creature that played the role of FFQ or Pharaoh, omerbey.  I believe Life really needs a multiple-creatures-in-one-card card.

And SG, I'd love to have it out with you in the Trainer.  I really think you're seriously overestimating the value of a bunch of 2/2 skill-less creatures AND overestimating the time it takes to get 6 of a card into your hand and then into play.  Hell, Ambominations would be overpowered if you could instantly get 6 of them into play with 6 cards.  Fortunately, that's not how the game works.

You might, if you're lucky, get 2 Alpha Wolves in the first few turns, and get a Feral Bond to go with them.  14 damage and 6 points of healing.  Meanwhile, for the same cost in time and cards and less quanta, a typical :earth rush deck could have out 2 Shriekers and a Shard of Gratitude -- 20 damage and 5 points of healing.  The Shriekers are harder to kill, penetrate shields better, and can be Burrowed.  The Wolves are cute, but they're not overpowering a damn thing.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: omerbey on March 22, 2010, 01:44:24 am
The thing is, if you had three of these in your hand, you could drop all three easily, and get 9 creatures on the field. As opposed to FQ needing much more quanta and turns to do the same, and in splash. Useful for bioluminescence and bonds mostly.

I'm not necessarily saying it's overpowered, I'm just saying the total attack power is not the main power of the card.

also, fractal  ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 22, 2010, 02:05:28 am
Tiny modification: Elite Pack Wolves now retain a 1 toughness, but also have a 0 casting cost, making Rewind less of a threat but Thunderstorm/Unstable Gas more of one.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: harakirinosaru on March 22, 2010, 03:31:18 pm
I like the card. Simple, yet offers many deckbuilding options, and on top of that the theme fits perfectly.

What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

P.s. the quantum icon in the top-right corner is on the wrong side of the number :)
Phase Spider costs 4 :aether for & damage - its the same card.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on March 22, 2010, 04:08:41 pm
And SG, I'd love to have it out with you in the Trainer.  I really think you're seriously overestimating the value of a bunch of 2/2 skill-less creatures AND overestimating the time it takes to get 6 of a card into your hand and then into play.  Hell, Ambominations would be overpowered if you could instantly get 6 of them into play with 6 cards.  Fortunately, that's not how the game works.
You don't see the huge difference between getting 6 or getting 18 creatures? Lol, that's three times as many. AND we are talking about an element that has Feral Bond.

You could build insane mono-life decks with this card.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 22, 2010, 08:37:42 pm
You don't see the huge difference between getting 6 or getting 18 creatures? Lol, that's three times as many. AND we are talking about an element that has Feral Bond.

You could build insane mono-life decks with this card.
Of course I see the difference.  That's the idea.   You could play Phase Spider; instead you get 3 creatures (2 more from Feral Bond) and in exchange those creatures are more fragile and easier to stop with shields.   Seriously, you're stressed about +2HP from Feral Bond versus doing 2 less damage if the opponent has a 1-point shield out and 4 less damage if the opponent has a 2-point or 3-point shield out and dying to FireShield, Spine Carapace, and Thunderstorm in one hit instead of 2.   Not to mention, as previously said, that Phase Recluse is easier to protect with Quintessence/Armor/Blessing and more effective to buff with Liquid Shadow/Momentum and the like.

Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Khimera on March 23, 2010, 11:54:41 am
Perhaps it would be more balanced if it were tweaked slightly?

Alpha Wolf could be 2/2 for :life :life :life :life :life :life with the cost being reduced by 1 when upgraded.
Pack Wolf would become 1/1 for :life and 2/1 for :life when upgraded.

This keeps it simple, but balances things out slightly, reducing the overall damage but increasing the cost without hindering the synergy with Feral Bond.

I also noticed that one of the main balance issues was the fact that you can play 6 Alpha Wolves and have 18 creatures played. This in itself seems odd, so I came up with the following:

Alpha Wolf
4/2
 :life :life :life :life :life :life
When Alpha Wolf comes into play, two pack wolves are generated. For each turn that Alpha Wolf stays in play another Alpha Wolf is generated. Only one Alpha Wolf can be in play at any time.

That would reduce the swarming aspect and would fit in more with the Alpha Wolf theme, but it is perhaps too complicated and not as desirable as the original idea. I just thought I'd throw my $0.02 in and see what people think.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on March 23, 2010, 12:38:00 pm
The way you changed the card is a definite step to a worse direction because now instead of it being something new, it's basically a FFQ of crack who creates 2 creatures instead of only 1, and much more powerful because you only use one type of quantum.

The "play one card, get 3 creatures" original idea you had was suggested earlier but it was for RoF's unless I'm mistaken, which makes more sense because if you have this kind of creature factory card, Life is the worst possible choice because of the huge synergy with Feral Bond.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Khimera on March 23, 2010, 01:10:32 pm
@Scaredgirl:

I think you misunderstood.

I proposed that it would be changed to the following:

Alpha Wolf
2/2
:life :life :life :life :life :life
When Alpha Wolf comes into play, generate 2 Pack Wolves.

Alpha Wolf (upped)
2/2
:life :life :life :life :life
When Alpha Wolf comes into play, generate 2 Pack Wolves (upped).

Pack Wolf
1/1
:life

Pack Wolf (upped)
2/1
:life

This is exactly the same concept of the original idea, but with slightly different numbers.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on March 23, 2010, 02:44:19 pm
I was talking to Essence actually.

But yeah, your numbers look more balanced to me.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 23, 2010, 08:10:35 pm
The way you changed the card is a definite step to a worse direction because now instead of it being something new, it's basically a FFQ of crack who creates 2 creatures instead of only 1, and much more powerful because you only use one type of quantum.

The "play one card, get 3 creatures" original idea you had was suggested earlier but it was for RoF's unless I'm mistaken, which makes more sense because if you have this kind of creature factory card, Life is the worst possible choice because of the huge synergy with Feral Bond.

Umm...I didn't change the card at all except to reduce Elite Pack Wolves to 2/1 with a free casting cost, so I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  The change I made was to keep the vulnerability to Thunderstorm, basically.

And Khimera, asking Life (the element whose only two attributes are efficient creatures and healing) to pay 6 quanta for 4 points of damage spread over three creatures, isn't just underpowered, it's downright unplayable.  2 extra points of healing from Feral Bond isn't ever going to be worth doing a massive 1 point of damage through any given 1-point shield.  Ever.

Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Oooh Muffin on March 24, 2010, 08:46:19 pm
packwolves just became the new photons

I think the card is okay, but of course a powerful card.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: killsdazombies on March 24, 2010, 10:47:42 pm
I like the current card, combine life with time and you can play a ton of wolves and with hourglass you can reverse one then use hour glass to play it and with emp bond it would be EXTREMELY awesome, and an added place for life in a non air deck.  this card has a lot of potential. i would love it for a card. the stats are good (thunderstorm and Rof would destroy this) the ability is good (4 life for a 5/4 creature spread over 3 creature) and the cost is good (creature for 4 life that can be stopped by a shield)

*ZOMBIE HUNTER*
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 26, 2010, 02:43:09 am
...except that it's 4 life for a 6/4 creature spread over 3 creatures, right. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: PuppyChow on March 26, 2010, 04:00:12 am
I really like Essence's original version too. A deck based on these loses to any form of creature control or 2+ damage preventing shield, but this is balanced by the synergy with feral bond.

I don't see how 7 damage for 4 quantum is overpowered. And in some ways, 3 creatures are worse than 1 so that balances out the bond synergy.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Robsta43 on March 26, 2010, 08:25:27 am
I also like Essence's origional version.  It keeps with grass's theme of healing, cost-efficiant damage and venerability.  It is better at healing then frogs, but worse damage/quanta and about as venerable.  It synergises with adrenaline, although you can't pull the deja-vu adrenaline trick. 
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: killsdazombies on March 26, 2010, 08:46:49 am
...except that it's 4 life for a 6/4 creature spread over 3 creatures, right. :)
lol typo :D
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 27, 2010, 10:59:35 pm
Actually, Robsta, I never considered the Adrenaline synergy.  That's a very good note -- upgraded Alpha Wolves with Feral Bond and Adrenaline would make a hell of a mono-Life deck.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on May 08, 2010, 12:20:37 am
So, just because this is my all-time favorite card idea, I'm double-posting to ask everyone a question: would this card be more balanced at 6 :life for a 2/2 Alpha and 2 2/1 Pack Wolves, upgrading to 5 :life for a 3/2 Alpha and 2 2/1 Pack Wolves?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 10, 2010, 09:15:38 pm
I would move this to Crucible but it needs the template thing first.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: miniwally on May 10, 2010, 09:22:33 pm
(http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/img/m7Gbd53903/Alpha_Wolf.jpg)
NAME:
Alpha Wolf
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
4
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2|2
ABILITY:
When Alpha Wolf comes into play, generate 2 Pack Wolves
NAME:
Elite Alpha Wolf
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
4
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
3|2
ABILITY:
When Alpha Wolf comes into play, generate 2 Pack Wolves
ART:
istockphoto
IDEA:
Essence
NOTES:
***Insert additional information***
SERIES:
Non-Series
-----------------

(http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/img/m7Gbd53904/Pack_Wolf.jpg)
NAME:
Pack Wolf
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
1
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2|1
ABILITY:
NAME:
Elite Wolves
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
0
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2|1
ABILITY:
ART:
istockphoto
IDEA:
Essence
NOTES:
***Insert additional information***
SERIES:
Non-Series
------------

Did it for you essence so just copy that if you want
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: archangelx on May 10, 2010, 09:31:45 pm
Instead of the effect being automatic what if it a free ability and like lycanthropy and could only be used once? something like:

Howl: Generate 2 Pack Wolves.

This would stretch the effect out to numb it down a bit so instead of 3 guys in one turn it would be 3 in 2 turns, it would nerf the card enough that an opponent would have time to react (aka kill the wolf) and making the card more strategic in how it can be used...
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: mokasu on May 10, 2010, 09:33:36 pm
umm...Mr.Wolf+Fractal+Feral Bond= :o
         
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on May 11, 2010, 09:40:45 pm
Yep -- Wolves+Fractal+Bond, indeed...isn't that exactly what Life+Aether should be capable of?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Avenger on May 12, 2010, 12:09:40 pm
Well, shields block a lot of the pack's damage. So, i don't think it needs a heavy nerfing.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on May 13, 2010, 03:51:46 am
Fixed!  Is this ready for the Crucible now?  :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Tea is good on May 20, 2010, 01:46:32 am
Lol you could rewind and play the leader multiple times to make more creatures (like deja vu) and stop from decking out. plus if the opponent plays a fire shield, you don't have to lose all the creatures with the aforementioned combo.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Scaredgirl on May 20, 2010, 06:32:21 am
Yep -- Wolves+Fractal+Bond, indeed...isn't that exactly what Life+Aether should be capable of?
Life is the element that benefits the most from having multiple creatures, which is exactly why you don't give Life a creature like this. Idea is to force people to use duo- trio- and rainbow decks if they want great synergies, not to give one element an awesome built-in synergy. This is the core of game balance in Elements.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Belthazar666 on May 20, 2010, 06:36:12 am
Yep -- Wolves+Fractal+Bond, indeed...isn't that exactly what Life+Aether should be capable of?
Life is the element that benefits the most for having multiple creatures, which is exactly why you don't give Life a creature like this. Idea is a force people to use duo- trio- and rainbow decks if they want great synergies, not to give one element an awesome built-in synergy. This is the core of game balance in Elements.
Agree 100%.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Ant-n-ero on May 21, 2010, 10:15:56 am
wow - started reading about creating your own cards and this was like the 3rd idea i had for a new card -- i like it alot ;)
also fits in now as someone said - shields would greatly stop these guys so no need for nerfing!
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on May 24, 2010, 10:21:57 pm
Life is the element that benefits the most from having multiple creatures, which is exactly why you don't give Life a creature like this. Idea is to force people to use duo- trio- and rainbow decks if they want great synergies, not to give one element an awesome built-in synergy. This is the core of game balance in Elements.

So, Hope doesn't belong in Light?  Eclipse doesn't belong in Darkness?  Immolation in Fire?  Flooding in Water?

For that matter, Condor, Graveyard, and Retrovirus together in the same element?  Unstable Gas and Elite Firefly?  Fahrenheit, Fire Lance, and Cremation? 


In-element synergies are as much a part of the game as cross-element synergies.  Don't pretend otherwise.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Krava on June 04, 2010, 12:23:54 pm
I dont think its overpowered also. You are able to deal with them same as with other creatures, more othyug fodder. They fit the theme, good synergy. Also, vunerable to crowd control.

pro - harder to remove via spot removal
con - easier to remove via mass board control

price could be one higher but this makes it competititve.

I think you are overestimating impact of this card. It is strong but it is not broken.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: finkel on June 04, 2010, 01:02:05 pm
I love this card. It could make an amazing hope deck (life+light deck with these, fractals, luciferin, and light dragons), and is very easily countered with just 2/1 health.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Krava on June 04, 2010, 01:56:20 pm
ah, also an idea: the main wolf could also have only one health ( in borth versions ) so that is totaly counterable by any kind of mass damage/damaging shield/plague/etc...
but that would be little too much though, i like it as it is..

also forget to add
con - shelds are more effective against him (as he is 3 creatures)
pro - bone wall is worse against him unless mass removal is in question in which case is considered as con


Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: binde22 on June 05, 2010, 07:38:30 am
im reading the post atm so if i see this anywhere else but... what if you found a way to build up 45 green qauntaum which is only 23 light+rustler then fracteled it not op since as everyone seems to say a good synergy doesnt make a card op expecially when it needs to be duo.

edit: after posting this i realized that max creatures is 23 so.. u only need 2 more of them to get 23 and rewind would be more effective
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Mrd3ath on June 11, 2010, 12:42:13 am
Great cards. Like you said, It'll be great for a Mono-Life deck with 2 or 3 Feral Bonds.

Oh, and congratulations on learning how to use Pixlr.
wats pixir?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Kael Hate on June 13, 2010, 05:09:17 pm
Great cards. Like you said, It'll be great for a Mono-Life deck with 2 or 3 Feral Bonds.

Oh, and congratulations on learning how to use Pixlr.
wats pixir?
Pixlr is an Online Image editing tool details Here. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,2632.0.html
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Kael Hate on June 13, 2010, 05:11:17 pm
If Alpha Wolf enters play via Parallel Universe are the 2 pack wolves created?

PS. This is Awesome message number 1408 at 3:12am. Hmm Haunting.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on June 15, 2010, 09:18:08 am
Yes, they are.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: silux on September 11, 2010, 03:22:51 pm
alpha wolf are one of my most favourite creature
it adds some new game mechanics
this creature would be a boost in rush deck and do fine if one has a quinted otyugh...
this is a card is a medium attacker and life hasn't cards who make other cards as mindgate nightmare hourglass fractal rain of fire or pandemonium are
I think every element should be able to gain card advantage on opponents
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: nawikipedia on November 26, 2010, 03:19:50 pm
grate idea, but there is no difrent between the pack wolfs, except if the opponent use reverse time
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on December 10, 2010, 01:39:26 am
Actually, nawikipedia, Pack Wolf is intended to be available as a standalone card -- and having a 2 ATK creature for zero cost is a HUGE upgrade. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on December 16, 2010, 05:54:58 am
YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYY!!!!  My first card into the Armory!  Now, to shoot for the moon: Reliquary, here I come!
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: twinsbuster on December 16, 2010, 06:18:37 am
pack wolfs should not have their stand alone form because of fractal abuse
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: geekz_always_win on December 16, 2010, 06:19:59 am
Has anyone heard of SHIELDS?

Wolves+Fractal+Bond   

MEETS

Permafrost Shield

EQUALS

GG  :P
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on December 16, 2010, 06:36:41 am
Yeah, if Fractal + Brimstone Eater (which pays for itself) isn't going to win games, I don't think Fractal + Pack Wolf is either.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: geekz_always_win on December 16, 2010, 07:59:59 am
Yeah, if Fractal + Brimstone Eater (which pays for itself) isn't going to win games, I don't think Fractal + Pack Wolf is either.
The only use I can see for this is MAYBE mutation swarming (you need life for Fallen Druid anyways.)

Or a life/light duo with luciferin. Otherwise I think this is a waste of space.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on December 16, 2010, 08:29:45 am
You're not all that creative, are you?

Mutation
Luciferin/Hope
Feral Bond
Rewind/Eternity (keep bringing the Alpha Wolf back for more Pack Wolves)
Fractal (8x Alpha Wolf will fill your whole board)
PU (see above, even better if you add Adrenaline on the Alpha Wolf)

And that's just offhand.


And because I'm not happy with how much the Wolves cost right now (I'm thinking both versions should cost 5 :life ), I added a poll to the OP.  Please give me your opinions. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: LongDono on December 17, 2010, 10:13:39 pm
Firefly queen
7 :air / 7  :air
2 :life
Unlimted
Creates 4/2 dudes ( upped )
Can use effect as long as you have 2 :life

Alpha wolf
6  :life / 5 :life
no cost
only when entering play
Creates 2/1 dudes
Can use effect once unless you COMBO another card.


I see no reason why Alpha wolf can not have a lower cost. Firefly queen makes stronger creatures but at a slower rate. In addition it is not limited to the number of creatures it can make without the help of a combo. Also firefly queen makes creatures that generate quanta...

Alpha wolf can be stopped very easy via CC or shields that stop 2 or more damage or deal damage or poison.

Alpha wolf is faster when it is first played but after like 2 turns it wont even compare to firefly queen.

The cost should be lowered atleast, or the attack/HP of the pack wolfs and alpha wolf should be higher.

No I understand that firefly queen is duo, and Alpha wolf is not.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on December 17, 2010, 11:40:46 pm
Alpha Wolf and its Pack Wolves are best compared to a single behemoth.

Alpha Wolf costs 6|5 :life to field 6|7 attack.

The Frog costs 2|2 :life to field 3|5 attack.
costs N|M :life to field N+1|N+3 attack

Alpha Wolf should cost 5|4 :life.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Rainmaker on December 18, 2010, 12:50:45 am
frogs have no ability whatsoever.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on December 18, 2010, 01:18:37 am
frogs have no ability whatsoever.
So?
I am claiming that Alpha Wolf is approximately equivalent to a 6|4 (7|4) vanilla creature.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: LongDono on December 18, 2010, 10:36:06 pm
Also don't forget unlike frog this card is unlikely to see play on the first turn.

Honestly the attack could be buffed and it would still not be OP. ( if we keep the cost as it is now )
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Essence on December 18, 2010, 10:51:27 pm
I'd rather lower the cost and keep the inherent vulnerability to shields, that's a big part of the card's balance.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: jorrethoi on January 24, 2011, 05:52:17 am
Your Elite pack wolves i think should at least have 1 more point of def. it doesnt affect the damage able to be pulled off, yet adds survivability- otherwise upgraded, your alpha simply costs 1 less, a negligible amount compared to almost anything else.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: rowcla on January 24, 2011, 09:03:51 am
I like the card. Simple, yet offers many deckbuilding options, and on top of that the theme fits perfectly.

What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

P.s. the quantum icon in the top-right corner is on the wrong side of the number :)
this is very prone to mass cc though...
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Tea is good on February 23, 2011, 01:28:04 am
MMMMMMM- mitosis all over this one. (alpha)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 26, 2011, 10:50:01 am
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134988/Elite_Pack_Wolf.png)

                     How about NO?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Essence on February 26, 2011, 12:55:04 pm
Why not?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 27, 2011, 04:40:54 am
Photon
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: RootRanger on February 27, 2011, 04:47:04 am
Photon is unupped, Pack Wolf is upped.
Since unupped creatures usually have worse statistics than upped creatures, the comparison is invalid.

The upped photon (a ray of light) can compete with the upped Pack Wolf because the ray of light generates :light.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on February 27, 2011, 04:51:17 am
Not to mention DamselFly > Pack Wolf
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 27, 2011, 04:51:30 am
Don't we have enough free small creatures?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on February 27, 2011, 04:52:29 am
Don't we have enough free small creatures?
Perhaps. However this would serve the role of a token which is not the same role as the 0 cost critters fill.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: az4rel on February 27, 2011, 04:54:18 am
Don't we have enough free small creatures?
I could agree with that, and solve the problem by making it not a stand alone card.
also for a free /1 :life standalone creature I would prefer something different from this.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 27, 2011, 05:30:26 am
Not to mention DamselFly > Pack Wolf
It's not free.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: az4rel on February 27, 2011, 05:33:52 am
Not to mention DamselFly > Pack Wolf
It's not free.
but it poduces quanta
and it IS free.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: RootRanger on February 27, 2011, 05:35:25 am
New damselfly buff, which you apparently missed. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20649.0.html)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 27, 2011, 05:40:36 am
Never used it actually. But this only makes wolf even more useless.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: az4rel on February 27, 2011, 05:41:22 am
Never used it actually. But this only makes wolf even more useless.
you are a troll arent you?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 27, 2011, 06:00:45 am
Mommy, someone is wrong on internet! I have no arguments, ban plz!
Fixed for you, bro.

I checked wiki it says 1 :air. I didn't use damselfly. Whats wrong here?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: RootRanger on February 27, 2011, 06:07:38 am
Mommy, someone is wrong on internet! I have no arguments, ban plz!
Fixed for you, bro.

I checked wiki it says 1 :air. I didn't use damselfly. Whats wrong here?
Cool shelf, bro.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on February 27, 2011, 06:07:51 am
Mommy, someone is wrong on internet! I have no arguments, ban plz!
Fixed for you, bro.

I checked wiki it says 1 :air. I didn't use damselfly. Whats wrong here?
Please both of you stop it now.

Back on topic

@777
You know that Pack Wolf is a token creature and not a stand alone creature right?
Think of it as an extension of Alpha Wolf and thus judge it as part of Alpha Wolf. Separating the parts is not always appropriate when discussing balance.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: az4rel on February 27, 2011, 06:16:37 am
Mommy, someone is wrong on internet! I have no arguments, ban plz!
Fixed for you, bro.

I checked wiki it says 1 :air. I didn't use damselfly. Whats wrong here?
theory proved, sorry for that. now on topic.

@oldtrees: first post says is a stand alone card too.
                    oddly enough I sorta agree with 777.
                     but the solution is simple just let it not be a stand alone card.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on February 27, 2011, 06:31:44 am
Mommy, someone is wrong on internet! I have no arguments, ban plz!
Fixed for you, bro.

I checked wiki it says 1 :air. I didn't use damselfly. Whats wrong here?
theory proved, sorry for that. now on topic.

@oldtrees: first post says is a stand alone card too.
                    oddly enough I sorta agree with 777.
                     but the solution is simple just let it not be a stand alone card.
Oh. yeah making it a token card would fix the problem. (sorry it has been so long I forgot it was standalone)

Or it could be left as a standalone card
Ash Eater< Damselfly
Pack Wolf<Damselfly
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: az4rel on February 27, 2011, 06:36:09 am
thats true even if i like it only when is a token,
it is not unbalanced.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: 777 on February 27, 2011, 10:45:27 am
Talk about dejavu.

(http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/130096_1.jpg)(http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/128292_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Essence on February 27, 2011, 12:29:48 pm
Because the idea that wolves run in packs so started with Magic: The Gathering.

Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: OldTrees on February 27, 2011, 05:35:19 pm
The idea of 1 card summoning multiple monsters is an idea inherent in the standard rules of creature based card games. (aka the norm in those card game is 1 card: 1 creature hence breaking that norm is obvious)MTG has used this obvious idea time and time again. In fact it is a major part of the card advantage game theory. MTG has been around a while and has some great examples of their take on good ideas.

Wolfbriar Elemental is a good example of one of their better takes on the obvious multiple creatures in one card idea.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Essence on February 27, 2011, 06:06:00 pm
There's also that plaguing thing called 'real life' that keeps showing up as the inspiration for so many ideas.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: vrt on March 01, 2011, 10:37:54 pm
I hate to be an ass, especially since this is pretty late, but:

The watermark in the used card art for (Elite) Alpha Wolf is there for a reason. It's supposed to let you know you can't use it until you've paid for the image.. I'm going to have to ask you to change it.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Essence on March 01, 2011, 11:55:53 pm
I'm aware, and I've asked my wife to slap together something for me.  It's taking her a while 'cause she's a busy lady, but I'll get it taken care of soon. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Time_lord_victorius on March 04, 2011, 08:32:10 pm
Talk about dejavu.

(http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/130096_1.jpg)(http://www.cardkingdom.com/media/images/products/standard/128292_1.jpg)
look, if we do something for elements, we can almost immediately refferer to MTG...or D&D...or the simpsons (dont ask why)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Sevs on March 14, 2011, 05:20:20 am
This plus mitosis would generate a lot of creature really fast. I think
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Essence on March 14, 2011, 05:24:47 am
If by 'really fast' you mean 'in the time you can build up 17 life quanta' (6 to play the Alpha Wolf, 5 for Mitosis, and 6 more to activate Mitosis on the Alpha Wolf), yeah, that's pretty fast.  :)



Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: LongDono on March 14, 2011, 12:22:01 pm
XD lol mitosis.
Still in love with this card! ( dose that count as..... beastiality? ( dont know the spelling ) )
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 14, 2011, 05:17:07 pm
OK, the art has been changed to be legal (and more in line with the Pack Wolf art, though neither are really game-appropriate).  Furthermore, given the poll results were balanced in both directions (most expensive and least expensive), I decided to take the middle route and make both the unupped and upped Alpha Wolf cost 5 :life.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf (POLL ADDED; PLZ VOTE)
Post by: Time_lord_victorius on March 14, 2011, 08:59:51 pm
This plus mitosis would generate a lot of creature really fast. I think
oh god, teh spam, it ar HORRIBLEZ!!!!!!

to be serious, darn... this is going to get nuts with mitosis
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on March 15, 2011, 04:46:44 am
Again, I have to ask why?  Realistically now, what can you do with Alpha Wolf+Mitosis that you can't do just as quickly (turn-wise) with Frog+Mitosis? 
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: mightyforest on March 17, 2011, 10:55:10 am
Yay life creature(s) that come in a 3 for 1 package! Awesomeness! Darn shouldn't have shown too much excitement cuz now my post going to get labeled as biased :(

Anyway, comments (if not specified i'm talking about the upped version):

I like the idea of having stand alone creatures tokens that arrive on scene with the regular summon of a life creature for it allows the emphatic bond to see more play. Good protection against single target CC that too which will be awesome as Antimatter users can go cry xD.

Cost to damage ratio seems fair slightly on the strong side, on par with currently in game monster (Mid-range attacker I'm mentally comparing with is gravity's 7/5 upped charger. This one gets tokens for extra synergy with bond while charger gets  momentum, seems fair)

Card has obvious weaknesses available to most elements such as AoE spells, otyguh and shields which can reduced 3 dmg for 1 def. so has very easy to access counters which is great for balancing the game.

However, I'd just like to suggest avoiding placing the upped lead wolf's attack at 3, since adrenaline + 3 attack creature is just crazy carnage, might make mono life a little too much punch with just pillars, 1~2 bonds, un-upped frog, wolves and adrenaline. (Gah why am i suggesting to take away from potential awesomeness of my fav element  :'()

Anyway, apart from that I love this card, go life~!

Hope my comments were helpful :)

P.S. Also bonus points for introducing a omnivore for the life element.. the forest that is life at the moment seems devoid of any mid tier predators which just seems to be an incomplete food chain :X



Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: agogo on March 19, 2011, 02:48:06 am
One, I like wolves
Two, I run life
The pack-wolves will be stand-alone according to your notes... I think that is very fair.
The balance here is nearly right. When i first read it i thought it was whenever the card attacked... But now that i've re-read it, its pretty good. The image should be diff, though (not that i would do any better), but an illustration would be awesome.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on April 13, 2011, 09:50:10 pm
there should be a mechanic that the alpha wolf has attack or defense based on number of wolves in play and any alpha wolf (or wolf with ability 'alpha') is replaced when a new alpha is played. it should be an ability so it is replaced by mitosis and your new alpha doesnt replace it, unless you wanted it to work that way, and you would mitosis a wolf, your den mother instead of an alpha so it doesnt replace, but there should only be one alpha wolf in the pack at any given time. Wolves should pack bond somehow like scarabs do...
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on April 14, 2011, 12:34:34 am
there should be a mechanic that the alpha wolf has attack or defense based on number of wolves in play and any alpha wolf (or wolf with ability 'alpha') is replaced when a new alpha is played. it should be an ability so it is replaced by mitosis and your new alpha doesnt replace it, unless you wanted it to work that way, and you would mitosis a wolf, your den mother instead of an alpha so it doesnt replace, but there should only be one alpha wolf in the pack at any given time. Wolves should pack bond somehow like scarabs do...
Simple is better than complex.
The current version works well for creating packs.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on April 14, 2011, 05:00:08 am
yeah, sometimes simple is better. the card is pretty good as is. I just think it doesnt quite capture the idea of a pack Alpha. Maybe 'Den Mother' and 'Fledgling Wolf', and a pack alpha might have an attribute based on the number of wolves? I stress this connection to portray the idea that a leader is only as strong as those around him, that an Alpha is only as strong as his pack. Would leave room for a few other wolves as well, Pack Elder, maybe. I like wolves and love the idea of some mechanics based on their characteristics.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on April 14, 2011, 04:04:00 pm
I agree a name change leave the option for another card down the road.
Den Mother seems better than Pack Elder but either would fit.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on April 14, 2011, 06:02:01 pm
Den Mother.

pack elder was a musing of another card down the road... maybe a wolf with a cost of 2 time to draw a card or something.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Crowbarofjustice on April 15, 2011, 03:44:54 am
what if you kept the cost at 5 and nerfed the dmg so thatit deals a total of 4 dmg but add more side wolves so like this

alpha wolf
1/4 OR 2/3
spawn 3 1/1 pack wolves


it may deal less dmg but it wont be OP and it will have more uses than most cards (mutate/fallen elves,luciferace,& emp bonds will do well with this card and it will be a good counter to bone shield)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on April 17, 2011, 11:11:56 pm
No offense to all you guys with some decent ideas, but I'm not going to radically alter the card after it's made it all the way to the Armory. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Time_lord_victorius on April 27, 2011, 08:32:30 pm
that is very understandable, i like it the way it is, it's just more :life gravy on the rush department
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Tyhaux2 on May 03, 2011, 03:38:47 am
wow i can see some brokenness with this card :o
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on May 03, 2011, 03:41:10 am
For example?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Tyhaux2 on May 03, 2011, 03:48:25 am
For example?
Mitosis | Mitosis  ;D
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on May 03, 2011, 04:21:22 am
For example?
Mitosis | Mitosis  ;D
While fun  ;D it would not be broken nor Overpowered.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Tyhaux2 on May 06, 2011, 12:59:58 am
you know it would be a cool if the pack of wolfs were darkness for the eclipse to get the +2/+1 synergy. so maybe it would boost the cards rating for muti color decks. :)

even though i do believe the card is good. but eclipse+the pack of wolf's sound sexy together. :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: silux on May 06, 2011, 04:22:57 pm
Even better pack wolves +fractal!
They have already a sinergy with cloak ;)

It's not broken with mitosis
5:life for 7attack and 2thunderstorm screw all

mitosis is better used on scorpions and frogs than alpha^^

Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on May 06, 2011, 05:15:49 pm
Even better pack wolves +fractal!
They have already a sinergy with cloak ;)

It's not broken with mitosis
5:life for 7attack and 2thunderstorm screw all

mitosis is better used on scorpions and frogs than alpha^^
Adrenal Scorpion Mitosis for the win.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: silux on May 11, 2011, 09:04:52 pm
Shhhh mitosis scorpions is a secret!
Don't use them without parental permission it could be dangerous even for fake god :P

I think I will make a fan art for this wolf^^
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Calindu on June 19, 2011, 07:19:50 pm
Actually damage reduction shield are killers for this cards.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: platnium phoenix on July 10, 2011, 08:27:52 am
I like the card. Simple, yet offers many deckbuilding options, and on top of that the theme fits perfectly.

What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

P.s. the quantum icon in the top-right corner is on the wrong side of the number :)

Imagine fractaling it.... you could do over 200 damage per turn.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on July 10, 2011, 01:29:47 pm
I like the card. Simple, yet offers many deckbuilding options, and on top of that the theme fits perfectly.

What I don't like is balance. This card id ridiculously overpowered. Like Wisemage already said, this card does 7 damage with only 4 quantum which itself is powerful. But the worst part is that one card instantly creates 3 creatures.

Think about it. With 6 of these cards in your deck, and only 24 quantum, you can create an army of 18 creatures that do 42 damage. Nothing in Elements comes even close to that. This card would instantly become the ultimate creature factory card with  :'(INSANE :'( synergy with cards like Feral Bond.

Needs a serious nerf.

P.s. the quantum icon in the top-right corner is on the wrong side of the number :)

Imagine fractaling it.... you could do over 200 damage per turn.
Fractal Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Cost:10 :aether|9 :aether + (1+x)*5 :life +2 cards (max cost: 10 :aether|9 :aether +40 :life +2 cards ~= 51 :life|50 :life +1 card)
x=number of cards generated by fractal
x<8 (there is no room for the 16th Pack Wolf on the field thus there is no room for the 9th Alpha Wolf on the field)
Effect: (1+x) Alpha Wolves | Elite Alpha Wolves + (2+2x) Pack Wolves [the 16th Pack Wolf does not fit] (max effect: 46|54 damage per turn)

Regular casting 6 Alpha Wolf | Elite Alpha Wolf
Cost: 30 :life +6 cards (~= 35 :life +1card)
Effect: 6 Alpha Wolves | Elite Alpha Wolves + 12 Pack Wolves (36|42 damage per turn)

1 card creating 3 creatures/permanents is not a problem. Dealing 7 damage for 5 quanta is not a problem upgraded.

6 cards using 30 quanta for 42 damage or 18 creatures was nothing new at the time of SG's comment.
Times have changed. Now 6 cards using 30 quanta for 42 damage and 18 creatures was nothing new.
(Fractal Damselfly: 27 :aether +6cards = 46 damage and 23 creatures max. Fractals creating 6,7&7 Damselflys)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: xn0ize on July 13, 2011, 04:11:54 pm
this and fractal... WHOA
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Calindu on July 13, 2011, 04:17:23 pm
this and fractal... WHOA
Pack an diamond shield--->no one will fractal this.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on July 13, 2011, 04:46:59 pm
this and fractal... WHOA
Pack an diamond shield--->no one will fractal this.
1) Fractal is highly inefficient with this creature (52/46 | 51/54 cost/benefit ratios)
2) Titanium Shield or Tower Shield is a more efficient/versatile block for this strategy
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Calindu on July 13, 2011, 04:50:53 pm
this and fractal... WHOA
Pack an diamond shield--->no one will fractal this.
1) Fractal is highly inefficient with this creature (52/46 | 51/54 cost/benefit ratios)
2) Titanium Shield or Tower Shield is a more efficient/versatile block for this strategy
I think upped Titanium Shield(diamond) is a "gg" shield because it blocks all the damage that could fractal+alpha wolf deal.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on July 13, 2011, 05:14:08 pm
Do people even read?  The whole Fractal+Alpha Wolf thing has been disproven mathematically, rhetorically, and even philosophically over the course of this thread.  Srsly ppl ST*U Alrdy!
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on July 13, 2011, 05:17:51 pm
this and fractal... WHOA
Pack an diamond shield--->no one will fractal this.
1) Fractal is highly inefficient with this creature (52/46 | 51/54 cost/benefit ratios)
2) Titanium Shield or Tower Shield is a more efficient/versatile block for this strategy
I think upped Titanium Shield(diamond) is a "gg" shield because it blocks all the damage that could fractal+alpha wolf deal.
1) Fractal is highly inefficient with this creature.
2) DR 2 lets a maximum of 8 damage through. That is not worth the additional resources to use Diamond.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Calindu on July 13, 2011, 05:19:29 pm
Do people even read?  The whole Fractal+Alpha Wolf thing has been disproven mathematically, rhetorically, and even philosophically over the course of this thread.  Srsly ppl ST*U Alrdy!
I just say this card is NOT OP.Although luci/hope should make this the new RoL.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Isei on July 14, 2011, 01:30:15 am
I just say this card is NOT OP.Although luci/hope should make this the new RoL.
That seems unlikely.  It'll probably just replace deja vu in the false god counter or two that still use luciferinn, if even that.  This costs 5 quanta as opposed to two (one for playing, one for ability).
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on July 14, 2011, 12:00:21 pm
great food for otygh or scarabs. fodder for fire shield and graveyard. things to mutate. 3 cards in play per 1 in your deck, its a nice mechanic.


personally, and I have said this before, there should be a set of wolves with some different mechanics. they are a pack animal and I think different duties of the pack would be good. you could get cross elemental and have a  :time Desert Wolf or a  :darkness Night Wolf ; things like that...
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: jmdt on July 14, 2011, 12:51:40 pm
this and fractal... WHOA
Pack an diamond shield--->no one will fractal this.
1) Fractal is highly inefficient with this creature (52/46 | 51/54 cost/benefit ratios)
2) Titanium Shield or Tower Shield is a more efficient/versatile block for this strategy
I think upped Titanium Shield(diamond) is a "gg" shield because it blocks all the damage that could fractal+alpha wolf deal.
1) Fractal is highly inefficient with this creature.
2) DR 2 lets a maximum of 8 damage through. That is not worth the additional resources to use Diamond.
If I use upped cards, I pack Diamond every time.  Diamond is better overall and if I stick it in a deck, I balance the quanta around its cost.

As far as fractal...there are worse decisions in the game.  With a 5 cost card, I'd run phase shields in the deck as you would with say fractal chargers.  Any fractal critter past say 3 cost needs phase shield to recoup speed losses while waiting for the on element quanta to build.  So its a given that it is less efficient to fractal these guys.  However, if I run a :life / :aether deck that already has wolf, phase shield, and bond you better believe I'll have ~2 copies of fractal in there.  Fractal allows for 2 things in this build.  1st, depending how quanta and gameplay work out, it can allow for a faster swarm than otherwise especially if you have 1 copy of wolf and clutch draw a fractal.  Secondly, due to their fragile nature, some wolves will ultimately die.  With fractal I have the ability to survive adversity and replinish my ranks that I would not otherwise.  A critical ability if pitted against say a fire deck.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on July 15, 2011, 06:00:08 pm
well, fractal is really useful if you use it on an Elite Pack Wolf instead of an Alpha.

8*2==16/9 :aether == 1 quanta for 1.7 damage total since all you have to pay is the fractal.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on July 15, 2011, 06:22:43 pm
well, fractal is really useful if you use it on an Elite Pack Wolf instead of an Alpha.

8*2==16/9 :aether == 1 quanta for 1.7 damage total since all you have to pay is the fractal.
You mean fractal Damselflys?
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: storyteller on July 15, 2011, 06:36:29 pm
well, fractal is really useful if you use it on an Elite Pack Wolf instead of an Alpha.

8*2==16/9 :aether == 1 quanta for 1.7 damage total since all you have to pay is the fractal.
You mean fractal Damselflys?
that could be interesting with some skyblitz and rapid dragons...

I just was noting that everyone was talking about fractal on the alpha, when you have a bunch of zero cast critters there. handy with bonds.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Wolfunit on July 16, 2011, 04:29:12 pm
The card name is so lovely and so is the card in general and wolfunit approves it. :D
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Toxx on August 10, 2011, 12:08:53 pm
Too strong
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OldTrees on August 10, 2011, 10:33:49 pm
Too strong
Why? Please provide your reasoning.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Toxx on August 11, 2011, 08:58:51 am
Too strong
Why? Please provide your reasoning.
If you were to put mitosis on this card it would be insane especially combined with feral bond. I like the ability idea of this card reminds me of one of my favorite cards from another card game.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Essence on August 11, 2011, 06:12:21 pm
I wish people would read threads before they post in them.
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Toxx on August 11, 2011, 08:38:19 pm
I wish people would read threads before they post in them.
Lol I've read the entire thread and my verdict is it's not OP. Still this card is scary strong with killa combinations  :)
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: Masterfurry on August 17, 2011, 04:59:31 am
hm, add an idea with the same name, diff ability, i guess i gotta change the name
Title: Re: Alpha Wolf | Alpha Wolf
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 15, 2014, 05:30:22 pm
Okay, please pardon the necroing, but I feel there is relevance, having tried this in action in openEtG (granted meta is different). I can say that this definitely gives life a much needed card. Being able to field many creatures at once is indeed a major life saver when coupled with empathic bonds / feral bonds.
Being able to pop out more cards on entering play is also a very amusing counter to RT.

Too strong
Why? Please provide your reasoning.
If you were to put mitosis on this card it would be insane especially combined with feral bond. I like the ability idea of this card reminds me of one of my favorite cards from another card game.
The healing is indeed very powerful with feral bond. Having played it against various AI's I can say that the mito combo actually doesn't seem as strong as I first thought. Its potent, but the cost keeps it pretty balanced and in practice I've found the better strategy is to use mito on other creatures instead.
Yes, mito wolves can indeed give massive healing. However, doing so saturates your field with low attack creatures. In practice, the better use seems to be to use wolves to get early to mid game healing boosts then use mito on harder hitting creatures (upped frog / cockatrice or dragons).
With 6 wolves in a deck, you end up with 18 creatures. That seems to be more than enough.
Also, despite this potency, it is still quite vulnerable to mass CC. At 2 hps, there are a lot of counters that can be pretty effective
-Thunderstorm, firestorm, upped dryspell, pandamonium, pharaoh+scarabs, skull shield (although I'm a little iffy on the RNG interaction) and even fireshield.
In decks based around wolves, all of those tend to be pretty devestating.
Also, the low attack means that there are several shields that will stop their damage.

All in all, I think its a pretty well balanced card. Its very useful for burst creature spawn, but its relatively low attack and hps keep it from being OP. I think it would make a wonderful addition to life.
blarg: