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Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015302#msg1015302
« on: November 13, 2012, 04:41:03 am »
NAME:
Elemental Gem
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
4
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Cards of your mark in your hand cost 1 less to play. Cannot lower costs below 2.  Drain 2 mark quanta per turn.
NAME:
Refined Elemental Gem
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
2
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Cards of your mark in your hand cost 1 less to play. Cannot lower costs below 2.  Drain 2 mark quanta per turn.

ART:
Kamietsu
IDEA:
Zblader
NOTES:
A quantum accelerator card that encourages mono support and potentially rainbow-focused mono. <2 Cost restriction is in place to prevent increased advantage with Supernova or free Frogs/Graboids being played.

However, a card with it's cost lowered will retain that lowered cost when on the field, so you could potentially combo this with Mitosis to spawn some giant creatures.

Fractaling a lower-costed card gives you normal copies of the card with normal costing, to prevent stacked Gem lowering. Likewise, Mitosis spawns normal copies of the card even if the card currently has a lowered cost.

Also, the Gem in the card changes its appearance based on what mark you have:
Spoiler for Gems by Kamietsu:





SERIES:

Spoiler for Hidden:
NAME:
Elemental Gem
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
5
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Lowers the cost of all cards of your mark's element in your hand by 1. Cannot lower costs below 2.
NAME:
Refined Elemental Gem
ELEMENT:
Other
COST:
3
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Lowers the cost of all cards of your mark's element in your hand by 1. Cannot lower costs below 2.

ART:
Kamietsu
IDEA:
Zblader
NOTES:
A quantum accelerator card that encourages mono support and potentially rainbow-focused mono. <2 Cost restriction is in place to prevent increased advantage with Supernova or free Frogs/Graboids being played.

However, a card with it's cost lowered will retain that lowered cost when on the field, so you could potentially combo this with Mitosis to spawn some giant creatures.

Fractaling a lower-costed card gives you normal copies of the card with normal costing, to prevent stacked Gem lowering. Likewise, Mitosis spawns normal copies of the card even if the card currently has a lowered cost.

Also, the Gem in the card changes its appearance based on what mark you have:
Spoiler for Gems by Kamietsu:






SERIES:

« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 12:42:33 am by Zblader »

Offline furballdn

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015303#msg1015303
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 04:45:11 am »
If this is a permanent, then it will automatically affect cards in my hand. If I fractal flesh recluses, they should cost 2 :death if I have one of these and my mark is :death. The wording is also a bit awkward. I'd say something like "if a card's cost is 2, it will not be lowered." Are you sure :rainbow and not :underworld is the best idea for this?

Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015305#msg1015305
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 04:55:50 am »
If this is a permanent, then it will automatically affect cards in my hand. If I fractal flesh recluses, they should cost 2 :death if I have one of these and my mark is :death.
Yes. What I meant by Fractaling a lower-costed card is that it goes back to its normal cost to prevent the 'lowering' from stacking (Lowered cost card in hand lowered again by Gem, play those, fractal, rinse and repeat.)

Quote
The wording is also a bit awkward. I'd say something like "if a card's cost is 2, it will not be lowered." Are you sure :rainbow and not :underworld is the best idea for this?
I'll fix wording in the next update.
As for :underworld vs. :rainbow, its a matter of maintaining accessibility while taking forum politics into consideration.  While I'd love to make this cost :mirror (You may only pay for this card with -1- type of quanta), Pseudoelement cards tend to get the short end of the stick when it comes to Crucible since people think 'Zanz won't put this card ingame.' While it might be possible to put this card in element it doesn't really make sense seeing as gems are spread out amount the elements (Entropy has Amethyst and Aether has Turquoise for example) and I don't see why a mark-support card would be element specific. Therefore I put it in Other, to allow every element to wield it while not triggering any anti'13element' hate. (Asmodeus | Asmodeus had a similar design problem.)

Offline furballdn

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015310#msg1015310
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 05:07:50 am »
Oh, I seem to have sort of misunderstood, but I see now. Yes, fractal would copy normal creatures (same as if you fractal'd a mutant), and mitosis would create normal creatures for less price (same as a mutant). How would this work with fractalling phase recluses, flesh recluses, and other cards?

Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015315#msg1015315
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 05:14:50 am »
How would this work with fractalling phase recluses, flesh recluses, and other cards?
Fractaling a reduced cost creature puts the normal cost creature into your hand. The gem then reduces that creature cost by 1. If the gem is removed at any point in time all lowered cost cards in hand go back up 1.

Offline furballdn

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015316#msg1015316
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 05:16:24 am »
I meant balance wise. Is 1 card + 3 :rainbow + mark for the cost reductions balanced? Especially when combined with fractalling creatures?

Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015317#msg1015317
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 05:18:39 am »
I meant balance wise. Is 1 card + 3 :rainbow + mark for the cost reductions balanced? Especially when combined with fractalling creatures?
I don't have an actually idea, yet - I originally priced these at 1-2 :underworld because I expected them to have slightly more of an overall impact than pillars. Taking the 'copy cards' into consideration however, I'm not so sure about that.

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015373#msg1015373
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 02:57:50 pm »
can i use this, play a mark card, then play another for two different gems?

also, great card

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015398#msg1015398
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 06:10:28 pm »
Nice card but i think it's hard to balance... -1 cost could permit lot more possibility's for a rainbow deck.

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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015665#msg1015665
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 10:52:31 pm »
Nice card but i think it's hard to balance... -1 cost could permit lot more possibility's for a rainbow deck.
I'm not so sure this will do much to rainbow decks themselves, but the relatively high cost will necessitate a combo with nova, QP, or immolation.
Otherwise I think it will see more use in mono decks than rainbows.
The most obvious tactic would be to sprinkle in nova or immolation and use the extra quanta to power casting the gems... thats not really rainbow, its just a deck that needs more power than a pillar provides but isn't to picky about where it comes from.

Consider, for instance, the impact on fire decks.
An immo rush fire deck will be devestating with these ... maybe too much so. Rather than spamming the creatures right off the bat, a handfull of these will be played. with 3 of them, a lava destroyer, fire buckler and firestorm would cost 2 :fire ... 2 immos, 2 of these and shards of bravery will make for a devestating acceleration of an already high speed deck... Others can be accelerated with nova instead, but with slightly lower bang for your buck.

The kicker to balancing these is that it severely tweaks cost balancing when multiple are stacked. Balancing, therefore, will need to consider the ramifications to all cards with a current cost above 2.

A good starting point is to look at what cards can be brought down to the minimum. E.g. those with a cost between 3 and 8... Thats an awful lot, so for an easier start, we can narrow this down to cards with costs of 3 and 4 (since on average its hard to get more than 2 to 3 copies of a card consistently)... I'm not even sure where to start going past that though aside from noting that 1 to 3 of these will effectively halve the cost of many (if not the majority) of mid cost cards in the game

At any rate, my point is that this card will have very long reaching balance effects that need to be considered.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:56:45 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015696#msg1015696
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 12:59:29 am »
Wait...
I must apologize ZBlader. My previous review mistook this permanent for a spell. This would be a prime example of where Mark quanta should ideally be used. How can we simulate the balancing effects of Mark quanta without using a pseudoquanta mechanic?
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Re: Elemental Gem | Refined Elemental Gem https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44683.msg1015713#msg1015713
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 02:12:42 am »
:rainbow

when this card comes into play, deplete 4/2 quanta of your mark or destroy this card

 

blarg: