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Offline pulli23Topic starter

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Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475124#msg475124
« on: March 28, 2012, 06:11:09 pm »
Rationale
In the past I've always been wondering about decks which have a very broad range of playstyles, and can adapt to many situations during a game. Often I've been called "you can't build a deck like". This is obviously true, however this should not stop one to try? First reasoning is to incorporate each type of counter card into a deck (purify, sanctuarity etc). However this suffers from the common problem of wanting too much in 1 deck. Now I've looked more at the problematic points and created a basic deck that can still work many ways.

This deck won't be the first to do this (sadly I found some decks very similar weeks after I finalized my analysis), however by focussing on strategy I hope to bring something more to the deck building. This deck is created specifically for PVP: where you have to adapt to the opponent, as that is what this deck excells in. Obviously it can beat AI3 easily, and also bronze arena is possible.

The deck
The following is the basic deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
744 744 744 744 744 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74h 74h 74i 74i 74i 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pl

3 spots are left blank on purpose, those spots can contain various cards which can influence the deck to your liking - I'll go to that later. As said this deck uses various manners to beat the opponent. The simplest strategy is to use flying titans & overdrive them. This will wear the opponent down. Another thing one can use is catapult a titan for an amazing 34 damage - just 3 of them is enough to kill an opponent. The way you choose is depending on what you expect your opponent to have.
Some good points are hence:
  • Negates shields
  • Stalls/healing can be outdamaged by overdrive
  • Decently fast, almost always 100 damge is reached by turn 8
  • Very fun to play, you are rewarded for guessing the opponent's cards and adapting to that
Ideas for filling up the deck
As said the last 3 cards are up to you to decide (or actually, if someone can show me a best manner say so :P). Here I'll describe the main choices:

Extra trebuchet
With only 2 inside the 30 cards, you'll often go without finding a trebuchet. This limits the deck severly, so adding another will make the deck more stable. However the average damge output seems slower than an extra overdrive.

Extra overdrives
Similar to above, however this gets to focus really to the overdrive part making catapults more a novelty.

Gravity pulls
This is a very cheap card that can fill in the last 2 points. It gives the deck a little bit of survival, and won't ever prevent you from playing titans.

Elite armagioBasically the same reasoning as gravity pull. However to use a gravity pull you need a titan, so if you're unlucky and those 6 cards are down in the deck you can't do anything. Armagio puts less pressure on the titans. It is more expensive however.

Shard of focus
As one can see the general consensus with the last few cards is to add a bit of survivability/stalling to the deck. As to survive long enough for your titans to grow. This card just has both. It can stall by removing towers/weapons, and it gives survivability if it is destroyed. I'm not really done with testing it yet, I don't really like using the trainer for beta content as long as it is not finalized yet. But it is worth mentioning! (one can even catapult, overdrive etc it).

Chimera
This is perfect for those who wish to use unexpected, decks based around novelty features. In this deck the chimera will be played as a defensive card, if you have 2+ titans up and chimera them it's a massive 100+ hp the opponent has to eat through. Problem however is the price, it becomes difficult to play, and more often than not simply sits as a dead card in your hand.

My choice
The cards of choice for me is to use an extra trebuchet + 2 armagios, trebuchet adds more potential against the weakest part of this deck (rt, sosac), while armagio removes dependency on animate weaponry/titans:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
744 744 744 744 744 746 746 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74h 74h 74h 74i 74i 74i 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pl


Unupped deck
As a major part of this deck is catapulting titans, and titans unupped have the same health, unupped this deck does also work. It puts some strain on the versability of the deck though and there is less room for personal adaptions, however it should be mentioned here:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 561 561 561 562 562 562 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 8pr



Weaknesess and strategy against
Each deck has it's weakness, and so does this deck. I'll now describe the most obvious problems & strategies against them. The basic strategy is very clear: early on you'll have quanta problems. Everything starts with the titans, so prefer playing these. - Once you have 2 of them (1 flying 1 in weapon spot), you'll overdrive the first & probably build a catapult. After that just continue spawn everything you have, and catapult the titans to seal the box for the opponent.

Reverse time
The first obvious problem you'll encounter with this deck is reverse time. Reverse time often hard counters flying weapon based decks. So once you expect a reverse time based opponent you'll hold of letting your weapons fly. You only let them fly if you can catapult them the same turn. This makes his whole eternity/reverse time ability useless.

Permanent control
Then the other problem becomes PC, it can destroy your valuable catapults or weapons itself. If you expect the opponent to have lots of pc, simply never play a weapon unless you can let it fly the same turn. You'll have to use your overdrived catapults more, but that also deals a lot of damage. Now obviously the biggest problem is both reverse time &  PC, as they are mutually exclusive tactics to beat.
However lucky for us time doesn't have pc, and it's not common to see reverse time combined with PC decks.

Shard of sacrifice
Shard of sacrifice is always a game changing card, and it is even more important to KNOW if the opponent can use this card. The solution is very easy: never grow your damage above 10, so only keep 1 titan up. Then just use the same strategy as for reverse time. This manner of dealing damage the opponent can never really predict the damage. And either has to take the 12 damage per turn for given, or not use sosacs.
Just never EVER use overdrive unless you know the opponent won't use this shard. Overdrive simply gives the opponent a guaranteed healing.

Speedbows
This deck has no survivability, nor a cheap stalling method. As such it will lose vs rushes if they are faster than this deck. However with the upcoming nerf to supernova, those will get a tad bit slower. - You'll have to see how the meta adapts, but I think this 8-turn-win will come out as one of the faster ones.

Discord & earthquake
Those are indeed problematic points of this deck, I myself so far have not found a real solution for them. Other than just hope they won't come early. Quanta is mostly a problem early, when your hand is full and you still have to play your first 2 titans. After that it becomes a much lower problem. (and on top of that, the random quantum usage of animate weapons is nice :P).



Closing words
I hope those who play this deck find it fun to play. It is meant to be a deck which adapts to the opponent, and the strategy is hence a big part of this deck. I hope I made someone better with elements by reading this, and if anyone has any suggestions I really love to hear them.

Offline mwaetht

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475126#msg475126
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 06:19:37 pm »
When Shard of Focus comes out, it solves your problems both with Discord (destroys Discord and can be played with scrambled quanta) and speedbows (Black Hole), while being a less combo-dependent alternative to Flying Titans for catapulting against Reverse Time/SoSac. Nothing to do about Earthquake, though.

Chimera seems like it would be inferior to a few Gravity Pulls. Speaking of Gravity Pulls, have you considered adding a few non-Momentum creatures so you can use Gravity Pull as CC?

For the unupped, Fog Shield is a possibility.

Offline Calindu

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475131#msg475131
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 06:58:02 pm »
Such a lovely description for catatitans, I like more catapults and armagios instead of OD, because it makes it a little bit faster.
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Offline pulli23Topic starter

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475133#msg475133
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 07:07:15 pm »
Such a lovely description for catatitans, I like more catapults and armagios instead of OD, because it makes it a little bit faster.
Problem is that beats a bit the goal of this deck: to adapt during the game the actual playstyle. Might be faster (though I actually wonder, you're putting much more emphasize on drawing 2-3 titans) - however you'll become much more suspectible against pc.

Offline BunKeR

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475135#msg475135
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 07:16:54 pm »
Unupped deck
As a major part of this deck is catapulting titans, and titans unupped have the same health, unupped this deck does also work. It puts some strain on the versability of the deck though and there is less room for personal adaptions, however it should be mentioned here:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 561 561 561 562 562 562 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 8pr

In order to get a 3rd turn Titan you will want 3+ :gravity Pillars in the opening hand or 2 :gravity Pillars and a drawn :gravity Pillar on the 2nd turn . I think you are short on pillars which would delay your Titan timing by at least one turn . I think 14 Pillars are the absolute minimum the unupped list can run .


My second concern is that in PvP1 adding 50hp's to your health is a super value . Gravity Pull becomes stronger as the environment that it is played in gets weaker . Maybe including Gravity Pull becomes a stronger card in the list than other options ?
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Offline glennfoo

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475136#msg475136
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 07:26:14 pm »
Nice, u really put effort into studying this playstyle. perhaps u can do that for other element as well?? :P
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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475171#msg475171
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 09:13:30 pm »
i agree you have put a lot of effort into this i would like to see more from you in the future

Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475192#msg475192
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 11:20:04 pm »
I wouldn't recommend a chimera, but two possible reasons to consider it are as follows (sticking with your versatility theme)

1) Chimera has innate gravity pull.  This saves you having to use a slot on gravity pull, but then you're using the same slot for chimera
2) You can get around the one use per turn for terebuchet with Chimera.  Say you've got four flying titans out, you play chimera and catapult the chimera for damage.  The only problem is that this requires multiple titans to even be worth considering, requires that you be in a situation where you need to win that much faster, and that having all those flying titans out isn't already winning you the game for some reason.  (maybe sundials, or they got antimattered, or something like that)

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475657#msg475657
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 01:22:18 am »
Catatitan with stuff is still catatitan. there are some of them already in the forums.
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Offline Calindu

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Re: Raining titans, a versatile approach [PVP] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37817.msg475928#msg475928
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 06:38:04 pm »
Catatitan with stuff is still catatitan. there are some of them already in the forums.
But this one comes with variants, skeleton-build and strategy.
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