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Offline ~NapalmTopic starter

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Fury | Wrath https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459867#msg459867
« on: February 13, 2012, 09:38:40 pm »
NAME:
Fury
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
12 :fire
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Ignore any damage that would kill you this turn.
All the remaining fire quanta is consumed.
NAME:
Wrath
ELEMENT:
Fire
COST:
10 :fire
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
TEXT:
Ignore any damage that would kill you this turn.
All the remaining fire quanta is consumed.
ART:
Jocko
IDEA:
~Napalm
NOTES:
I'm simply re-posting a Trials Submission correctly.

This card will function similarly to Miracle, only less miraculous! It gives Fire one last chance to defeat its enemies before succumbing to defeat. However, the battlefield is not altered beyond this. As far as coding goes, your hp cannot drop below 1 for that turn which should be simple enough.
SERIES:
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 12:32:22 am by ~Napalm »
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."

Offline Anarook

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459878#msg459878
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2012, 09:49:54 pm »
I'm asuming this is more of an example card? Cause there are several ideas already with this same efect in a more efficient manner.
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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459886#msg459886
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 10:03:58 pm »
I like it- but i think maybe it should prevent any fire quanta being generated next turn as well other wise u could chain 6 of these if you have 9 fire pillars and a fire  mark, which is very common in fire decks- and 6 turns is a very long time seeing as fire decks are generally really destructive. Alternatively you could make it cost 15 quanta like miracle.

Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459889#msg459889
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 10:07:49 pm »
I like it- but i think maybe it should prevent any fire quanta being generated next turn as well other wise u could chain 6 of these if you have 9 fire pillars and a fire  mark, which is very common in fire decks- and 6 turns is a very long time seeing as fire decks are generally really destructive. Alternatively you could make it cost 15 quanta like miracle.
That's at least 10 cards you must draw and play successfully, assuming you don't die, lose quanta to denial, or get any of them blown up. If you're going to chain them, that brings the total up to 15 cards that have a shorter and less efficient 'lifespan' than a Dimensional Shield. Miracle, on the other hand, gives you near-full HP back, which is likely to last at least 2-3 more turns assuming you don't do anything, compared to you being forced to resolve the threats on the field or die immediately with Berserk.

tsing520

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459898#msg459898
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2012, 10:19:36 pm »
But unless you are against another rush, you wouldn't need to have drawn these cards consecutively- say you have the 10 fire pillars down which I hope you agree isn't that big a leap for a fire deck to have done- throughout the game you wouldn't play the berserks until you need to i.e. the end few turns. By then a good fire rush would already have some strong creatures out- and a lava golem rush can continue growing with the earth quanta. It is easy to chain dimensional shields on the last 18 turns because you keep them in your hand and at least dimensional shields can be bypassed by momentum, steal or deflagration. this can only be stopped by quanta control.

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459900#msg459900
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2012, 10:21:05 pm »
 I should also add I think miracle is OP too especially in fractal RoL/ hope decks.

Offline ~NapalmTopic starter

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459901#msg459901
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2012, 10:21:48 pm »
Ah. I KNEW I forgot something in notes this time. (I've tried to post this card no fewer than 5 times, each time met will failure and I had to restart.) Yes, my one concern about this card is that it isn't costly enough. I personally think it's fine, but that's just me. ;) Why you'd want to play 6 of these and drain all your quanta each time is a little beyond me, but it IS doable I suppose. Seems like 6 Miracles would be insanely more effective and only slightly more difficult to manage.

Originally this card was meant to fulfill the requirement of a Drain Spell for the Fire Element. I tried to draw upon new concepts while still remaining true to Fire. Healing is one thing that Fire is lacking, but simply healing doesn't really fit, which is how I arrived upon this idea. It performs the function of healing without actually healing and at the same time, brings out more of the destructive nature of Fire through this idea of "revenge" or a "last stand."

As a minor note, cards like this provide a function for Silence! That isn't a bad thing... is it? :))
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."

Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459920#msg459920
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 10:37:53 pm »
But unless you are against another rush, you wouldn't need to have drawn these cards consecutively- say you have the 10 fire pillars down which I hope you agree isn't that big a leap for a fire deck to have done- throughout the game you wouldn't play the berserks until you need to i.e. the end few turns. By then a good fire rush would already have some strong creatures out- and a lava golem rush can continue growing with the earth quanta. It is easy to chain dimensional shields on the last 18 turns because you keep them in your hand and at least dimensional shields can be bypassed by momentum, steal or deflagration. this can only be stopped by quanta control.
On the flipside, this card is almost twice as expensive and costs all your quantum - you can't simply play at your leisure in rush to rush combat as you're busy playing everything else and draining your quantum in the process. In a fire rush, this would be a draw that would slow you down and probably not worth the Crimson Dragon or Phoenix you had to replace for it.

Rushes aren't the only type of deck that can counter this card :  there are also a variety of stall/domination decks that weaken this card as well:
OTK stall - Unless you successfully predict the OTK, the game becomes a matter of when to use this card at the right time. Also, 15 cards just to counter this type leaves you with less room to build up on damage through creatures and spells, which more flexible rushes and domination decks would defeats having not been geared to specifically counter an OTK.
Deckout - This card only protects your HP, not your deck. Again an Eternity stall, it automatically becomes at least 2 :fire + 1 card more expensive unless your opponent has no creatures. Against a PA'd Eternity stall, you have 6 dead cards in your deck.

Various denial decks such as Pestal and Discord/BH can negate this easily as well, unless you're going to bring other cards to help deal with the problem such as RoF and Explosion - by that time, you've gotten a full deck, but not one that can be offensively oriented to outstall an opponent or win through battles of attrition just by chaining itself. (Miracle users can use max-hp increase cards to improve their chances much more effectively of deckout, Dimshield decks have much better chances to win through stready damage due to longer duration and immaterial creatures, and Eternity can act as a CC until endgame where effective denial/healing can render your opponent unable to stop his deckout.)

I should also add I think miracle is OP too especially in fractal RoL/ hope decks.
That's somewhat off topic since the main card is not Miracle, but:
Miracle is the most expensive card in the game. It's upgrade makes it the 3rd most expensive (Ranking behind Unupped Miracle and Upped Phase Dragon).
You'll be most likely using that quantum to play Dragons/Crusaders/Angels + Hope, which already takes a good amount of quanta to work well. Adding Miracle means you have to add more quantum producers, which could bloat the deck unless you play carefully. (Generally, if you have a high defense value with Hope, you shouldn't even need Miracle to win except for money purposes).


Ah. I KNEW I forgot something in notes this time. (I've tried to post this card no fewer than 5 times, each time met will failure and I had to restart.) Yes, my one concern about this card is that it isn't costly enough. I personally think it's fine, but that's just me. ;) Why you'd want to play 6 of these and drain all your quanta each time is a little beyond me, but it IS doable I suppose. Seems like 6 Miracles would be insanely more effective and only slightly more difficult to manage.
I think the spell is costly enough. It's useful in last-ditch situations, but overall Miracle is superior in most high-cost, stay-alive situations for a higher cost (given :light is the element of quality (higher costs for better stats/effect) and healing (self-explanatory), this makes sense.)

Offline moomoose

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459926#msg459926
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2012, 10:45:12 pm »
something about this doesnt feel right, maybe its something called "fury|berserk" being a defensive card, or the "cant die this turn" card being :fire

personally i would add in a mechanic where the damage you sustain is doubled in the turns you play this to reduce the defensive feel of the card, just going to throw it out there.
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Offline ~NapalmTopic starter

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459930#msg459930
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2012, 10:54:37 pm »
It's defensive only in function. The idea behind it is to defy death to enact your revenge, which is clearly an offensive characteristic. I've stated before that the card is worded as it is to prevent it being overly complicated or convoluted. Sometimes simplicity cannot convey the proper message however. I could have made this a Permanent that only activates when you would die, but that seemed silly and less interesting.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459936#msg459936
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2012, 11:01:02 pm »
I concede- when I saw how much you wrote and your reputation I realised you know more than me- though I do agree with moomoose's idea of doubling damage

Offline moomoose

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Re: Fury | Berserk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36659.msg459937#msg459937
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2012, 11:01:21 pm »
in that sense every defensive card is an offensive card, because they let you stay alive longer so you can deal damage. this is a defensive card, other cards you have are offensive.
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