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Offline willng3Topic starter

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Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg417598#msg417598
« on: October 29, 2011, 09:51:36 pm »
Getting a jump start on this so that I can update it ASAP.

Please keep all discussion for Round 3 in this thread so that everything is in one place. Thanks :)

Chatroom: http://webchat.mibbit.com (Channel: #seedsofvictory)

Deckbuilding Phase:
Battle phase has started!

Duel Phase:
Round has ended

Life Deck Tracker: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuLG6-uKpq33dDMxbXZqSU5fcDNhbkNuSmFTcUV2UWc#gid=0

Standing Vault: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31890.0.html
:life
21x Emerald Pillar
56x Life Pendulum
6x Emerald Dragon
6x Horned Frog
6x Cockatrice
5x Forest Spirit
7x Heal
8x Thorn Carapace
2x Emerald Shield
12x Adrenaline
6x Forest Scorpion
8x Mitosis
11x Druidic Staff

:aether
5x Lightning
6x Dimensional Shield
0x Fractal

:air
0x Fog Shield
6x Flying Weapon
0x Wings

:darkness
3x Steal
2x Nightfall
5x Minor Vampire
4x Cloak

:death
0x Poison
0x Arsenic

:earth
0x Stone Pillar
0x Earth Pendulum
0x Graboid
0x Enchant Artifact
2x Earthquake
0x Stone Skin
0x Basilisk Blood

:entropy
3x Maxwell's Demon
5x Nova
4x Discord

:fire
2x Burning Pillar
2x Fire Pendulum
6x Fire Bolt
5x Deflagration
4x Rage Potion
2x Fahrenheit

:gravity
6x Black Hole

:light
2x Light Pillar
2x Light Pendulum
6x Crusader
6x Sanctuary

:time
0x Reverse Time
0x Eternity

:water
2x Water Pillar
2x Water Pendulum
2x Purify
5x Arctic Squid
Salvages:
9 cards:
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52r 52r 52r 52r 52r 52r 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 71a 7n5 7n5 8pk


Discards:
24 cards:
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c9 5c9 5c5 5c5 5c5 61q 61q 61q 61q 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 7ad 7ad 7ad 8pu


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4vj 4vj 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 593 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c9 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f6 5ia 5oi 5oi 61q 6u3 6u3 6u3 8pj


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5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c9 5de 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 8pn


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5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c9 5c5 5c5 5i4 5i4 5jm 5jm 5ib 5ib 5ib 5ib 5ib 7ac 7bu 7bu 8pp


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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5uq 5uq 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 5v2 5v2 5v2 5v2 7t9 7t9 7t9 8pt


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5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 5f6 5f6 5f7 5f7 7dg 7f2 7f2 8po



Event Card:

Note:  Pillars, not Pends of any element.  All other cards are restricted to a maximum of 3 copies per card.

Match-ups:
:death Jaymanfu vs :life Gen. willng3
Code: [Select]

:life Lt. ak65ala vs :fire Jocko
Code: [Select]

:life The Mormegil vs :light girlsgeneration
Code: [Select]

:life pikachufan2164 vs :gravity Vineroz
Code: [Select]
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Offline willng3Topic starter

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg417617#msg417617
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 10:21:09 pm »
Okay everything is now loaded in.  I was ecstatic about this Event Card until the 3 non-Pillar card restriction was added.  Now it's meh.

Not really sure what to do at this point.  Reflection time.
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg417627#msg417627
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2011, 10:33:31 pm »
It is still a major turning point for us. We need to make good use of it, we'll definitely need it.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

Offline ak65ala

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg417734#msg417734
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 03:33:32 am »
Well... that's frustrating.  At first I was glad to see this event card, now I am... I don't know.  They set up our duels this round taking these cards into account.  We have 4 duels instead of the 3 I had thought we would see.  Not that I want to have less cards.... it just would have been nice to spread these extras over less duels.

Anywho...

First impression: We are dying to shields and CC.  The event card forces us to grab 18 creatures.  This does not allow much hope to change this problem.  We can use it to shore up our fire-stall, we have or monks (who will see much more pointed counters, RT in particular tears that deck to shreds), and we have odds and ends.

 :gravity  :death  :light  :fire
Three teams who beat us handily last round and the last place team.  We either need a big 4-0 here or it will become a war of survival and finding how not-bad we did instead of shooting for a complete war victory.

Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg417857#msg417857
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 09:15:42 am »
Ok, I tinkered around with the Vault a bit: this is what we have if we discard all our decks (so we have 43 more cards from our decks and 9 more cards from the bonewall OE deck).

4 Flying Weapon
1 EQ
3 Maxwell's Demon
1 Deflagration
4 Rage Potion
6 Black Hole
2 Light Pillar
2 Light Pendulum
6 Crusader
6 Sanctuary
1 Purify

3 Emerald Pillar
6 Life Pendulum
3 Emerald Dragon
5 Thorn Carapace
2 Emerald Shield
3 Adrenaline
3 Mitosis
5 Druidic Staff

With the mandatory 24 Pillars we are at 27 + 6 (+ 4 light). We need to field four decks, and we won't field more than 4 in the rest of this War, I think. Sure, hope's a good thing, but if we really go 4-0 for a couple rounds we're going to have so many salvages and possible convertions that we can field another deck without many problems, so I think we need to aim at about 40-50 pillars / pendulums. I think we need 6 for a novabow (see below), 9-10 for a Monk deck (with the 4 light extras), 12-14 for a normal deck and about 15-18 for a stall (again, see below). Total: 42-48. We need to keep or convert 10-15 more pillars or pendulums, which is quite frankly easy. If we lose we discard 24 cards, so it's pretty easy to just kill a deck since we won't have to field it anymore, so I think we're fine at keeping the exact number. We also have plenty things we can convert in our Vault, and the rest of the convertion may be used to get some Pends off of those 24 free Pillars.

The most important part this round is going to be deckbuilding. We need to come up with a plan for this and next round, and here's what I thought: if we manage to build 4 strong and original decks for this round and keep two splashes in our Vault so that the four "main" decks do different things (example: a stall, a rush, a denial and a versatile deck) and the two splashes cover the weaknesses of these same decks (I was thinking of getting Frogtal back, for one) we can play this round and if it goes well, then capitalize on our "secrets" to counterpick our opponents next round. Did I make myself clear or am I way off? x)

Anyway, here's what I think we can build with the current restrictions on the event card (I'd love to see what you think too as we're practically rebuilding the whole Vault... or what's left of it. We need to take only Life creatures as we're running short, but we can keep them from last round's. We'll need some more Adrenaline possibly but we can take Permanents and Spells mostly from other elements I think):
1) Firestall (keep most of it from last round and use up some Permanents for Fahrenheits)
2) Monk (keep it)
3) Discord Novabow (keep Novas and a Discord, use the leftovers of the Event Bonus + leftovers from our Vault to build it)
4) Air Duo (Owl's Eye, maybe Wings, Shockwaves, Thorn... The choice is the Air Duo because we can salvage most of it and we can add Adrenastaves - trials deck. Wings can be a killer if it's unexpected, especially coupled with heavy CC and healing. More offense can be added with some Adrenalines if needed. Not really unexpected if our opponents think this through, but...)
Roughly:
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 5c3 5c3 5c9 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5oo 5oo 5oo 7n5 7n5 7n5 8pr

with Frogtal and/or TwinDragons as a backup in our Vault (keep some Dim Shields, take Fractals, maybe TU). Maybe even another RT splash (3 RTs, 2 Eternities).

I'll work on the exact numbers, but I think this way we'll have a creatureless deck, two stalls and two rushes, a fractal or TU deck, a denial deck, healing decks... It's a varied mini-Vault, weakness to RT is somewhat compensated by the threat of Frogtal and Firestall, weakness to Wings is compensated by Firestall, Air Duo and eventually Twin Dragons, weakness to shields is compensated by Denialbow and Firestall, weakness to CC is compensated by Firestall, Frogtal and Air Duo.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg418655#msg418655
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 07:05:53 pm »
I tinkered with the Vault again. How does this look? Decks can be switched around and we have a viable Frogtal (6 Dim Shields + 3 Fractals) in the Vault, along with a bit more novabow material.

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5de 5de 5de 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5oi 5oi 5oi 593 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 55v 7bu 7bu 7bu 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 74f 8pj

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c3 5c3 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c9 5c9 5c5 5c5 5c5 5l8 5l8 5mq 5mq 5lm 5lm 5lm 7n2 7n2 7n2 7k5 7k5 7k5 8pq

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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c3 5c9 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5f7 5f7 7ad 7ad 7ad 8po

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5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5oi 5oi 5oo 5oo 5oo 5ol 5ol 5ol 7ak 7ak 7n5 8pr

[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg418660#msg418660
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 07:27:42 pm »
Just a minor nitpick, in the BH/DC deck, why is there a single upped black hole?  Since you need to draw 2 SNs to play it anyway, the cost reduction does nothing.  You'd be better off upgrading almost anything in the deck, unless you up both holes, which seems fishy in itself.

Offline willng3Topic starter

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg418873#msg418873
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 03:02:25 am »
Agreement with what Isei said.  Honestly looking at these decks the Death one is the only one I don't really feel okay about just because of how it was countered last time.
However given that I wasn't using Adrenaline or BH last round, this could work much better.  I'd either upgrade both the BH or...anything else in place of that BH, probably EQ.  I think it's pretty unexpected.

Firestall against Light is probably our smartest move.  They seem to be fond of hitting us with OTK/shield decks and Firestall is really the best option we have for that at this point.

Assuming Gravity uses a Grabbow again that Air duo will work well.  They don't seem fond of using a terrible amount of high HP creatures so I think we're good either way.

And then Monks against Fire...it's expected but it just might be our best bet.  I'm not sure if using it against Death would be a favorable matchup especially considering it's going to be targeted as a high priority by almost every team now.
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg418924#msg418924
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 09:02:43 am »
Agreement with what Isei said.  Honestly looking at these decks the Death one is the only one I don't really feel okay about just because of how it was countered last time.
However given that I wasn't using Adrenaline or BH last round, this could work much better.  I'd either upgrade both the BH or...anything else in place of that BH, probably EQ.  I think it's pretty unexpected.

Firestall against Light is probably our smartest move.  They seem to be fond of hitting us with OTK/shield decks and Firestall is really the best option we have for that at this point.

Assuming Gravity uses a Grabbow again that Air duo will work well.  They don't seem fond of using a terrible amount of high HP creatures so I think we're good either way.

And then Monks against Fire...it's expected but it just might be our best bet.  I'm not sure if using it against Death would be a favorable matchup especially considering it's going to be targeted as a high priority by almost every team now.
We could go Frogtal vs Death and keep the Monk deck in our Vault. :/ not sure about it.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg419080#msg419080
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 07:52:32 pm »
The predictability bit only gets worse if we get less decks in our vault.  It's better to just field it now, since it's a deck that everyone's going to be watching out for.

LifeLockable

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg419166#msg419166
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 11:55:04 pm »
hey guys, sorry to but in here but I'm letting you all know I have returned, perhaps too late and am ready to do whatever I can do for you guys!, sorry about my absence but there were IRL complications with getting mah repairs, I am back hopefully for good now however and shall be spending the rest of the night catching up on the whole war

Offline ak65ala

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33110.msg419251#msg419251
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 03:51:18 am »
Did a bunch of testing.... tried a whole slew of crazy ideas.  I don't think we are at the point where we can use any of them however... Each one has pointed weaknesses that are easy to exploit... or... they make our vault downright unflexable... sooooo

I like what The Mormegil has come up with. 

For my matchup with Fire, they are in the same boat as us, the 'majority' of their vault is coming from this reinforcement card.  I think using the Monks against them is good.  My worst fear is RT or heavy CC.  Since they seem to be liking running quick decks, the Monks can deal with most normal damage well. 

 

anything
blarg: willng3,Jaymanfu,ak65ala,Jocko,The Mormegil,girlsgeneration,pikachufan2164,Vineroz