Water Clock | Clepsydra

[SnoWeb]

NAME: Water Clock ELEMENT: Water COST: 4 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Time Flow Send the bottom card in the deck of the target player to his hand.	NAME: Clepsydra ELEMENT: Water COST: 4 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Liquid time Send the first card in the hand of the target player to the bottom of his deck.

ART: Zanzarino, I think. IDEA: SnoWeb (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26141.0.html) NOTES: Definition: A water clock or clepsydra (Greek κλέπτειν kleptein, 'to steal'; ὕδωρ hudor, 'water') is any timepiece in which time is measured by the regulated flow of liquid into (inflow type) or out from (outflow type) a vessel where the amount is then measured. Water clocks, along with sundials, are likely to be the oldest time-measuring instruments. Water Clock: Contrary to the upgraded version, this card adds draw power. I created it to counterbalance The Mormegil (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29497.msg405378#msg405378) comments on the original version which had "no [other] way to retrieve the lost card [than wait to draw it again]". Now you can take back using "Time flow" what has been taken away using "Liquid time". You can also use it almost as a normal hourglass (the only difference being the need of water to play it). However, the most tricky ability this baby has is that it can force the draw on your opponent. This is an absolute must for the deck-outers. : Time flow - Send the bottom card in the deck of the target player to his hand. It is the exact opposite to what Liquid Time does. It allows you to force your opponent draw. With the two version of the card you are controlling the flow of time ... Clepsydra: This card does not add draw power (like the classical hourglass, precognition, sundial or the upped version clepsydra bellow) nor does it destroy cards (the card is sent to the bottom of the deck) nor does it deny draw (like RT or nightmare). However, it kinds of deny the card itself. It can empty the opponents hand either directly ( : liquid time) or indirectly (the opponents plays his card not to have it denied). In this sense it gives a great combo with nightmare and/or precognition. Used on yourself, you can also avoid the deck out. : Liquid time - Send the first card in the hand of the target player to the bottom of his deck. By first card, I mean the upper one (on the top of your hand). Note that it is the first card of your hand and not of your deck (no direct combo with reverse time then). Obviously if the target player has no card in his hand, it does nothing. The latest version of the ability allows to target yourself (thanks to CCCombobreaker (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29497.msg402314#msg402314)). I find this addition very clever. It allows you to empty your own hand if you need it (prepare for fractal - avoid discard - allow another draw). SERIES: -

NAME: Water Clock ELEMENT: Water COST: 4 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Liquid time Send the first card in the hand of the target player to the bottom of his deck.	NAME: Clepsydra ELEMENT: Water COST: 4 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Time Flow Send the bottom card in the deck of the target player to his hand.

ART: Zanzarino, I think for Water Clock and CorellaStudios (http://snoweb.deviantart.com/#/d3iv612) for Clepsydra. I am still waiting for the autorisation. IDEA: SnoWeb (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26141.0.html) NOTES: see last version SERIES: -

NAME: Clepsydra ELEMENT: Water COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Liquid time Send the top card in your op- ponent's hand to the bottom of his deck.	NAME: Clepsydra ELEMENT: Water COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: : Liquid time Send the top card in your op- ponent's hand to the bottom of his deck.

ART: Zanzarino, I think. IDEA: SnoWeb NOTES: Clepsydra: A water clock or clepsydra (Greek κλέπτειν kleptein, 'to steal'; ὕδωρ hudor, 'water') is any timepiece in which time is measured by the regulated flow of liquid into (inflow type) or out from (outflow type) a vessel where the amount is then measured. Water clocks, along with sundials, are likely to be the oldest time-measuring instruments. : Liquid time - Send the top card in your opponent's hand to the bottom of his deck. By top card, I mean the first one (on the top of your hand). Note that it is the top card of your hand and not of your deck (no direct combo with reverse time then). Obviously if the opponents has no card in his hand, it does nothing. This card does not add draw power (like the classical hourglass, precognition or sundial) nor does it destroy cards (the card is sent to the bottom of the deck) nor does it deny draw (like RT or nightmare). However, it kinds of deny the card itself. It empties the opponents hand either directly ( : liquid time) or indirectly (the opponents plays his card not to have it denied). In this sense it gives a graet combo with nightmare and/or precognition. SERIES: -

[thekillergames]

good synergies with eternity, It will really help with an  / duo. I like it.

[CCCombobreaker]

Finally something "like" a discard mechanic.  Can you make it "target player" instead of "opponent"?  I don't think something like this is OP if you can use it to prevent decking.  I also like that it can open up hand space.

[johannhowitzer]

I read that as "top card in opponent's deck," and was all set to tell you how that's a worthless effect.  Yeah, it's too late for me to be doing this...

[dragonsdemesne]

That's a very good card; I'd totally use that in my rainbow deck.  To make it more balanced, though, I think the activation on both upped/unupped should cost 1 more.  Also, I assume Sanctuary would defend against this.

[Jaymanfu]

I read that as "top card in opponent's deck," and was all set to tell you how that's a worthless effect.  Yeah, it's too late for me to be doing this...

I thought thats what it did also, but I didn't think it was worthless, as you could use reverse time on a creature then put it at the bottom of your opponents deck. As for getting rid of cards in your opponents hand... I guess at least its water and time combo which hurts it, but seems like it might be powerful in rainbows.

[johannhowitzer]

I read that as "top card in opponent's deck," and was all set to tell you how that's a worthless effect.  Yeah, it's too late for me to be doing this...

I thought thats what it did also, but I didn't think it was worthless, as you could use reverse time on a creature then put it at the bottom of your opponents deck. As for getting rid of cards in your opponents hand... I guess at least its water and time combo which hurts it, but seems like it might be powerful in rainbows.

Oh, good point - still, that would be the only possible use.  I'm glad it returns a card from the hand, that's more powerful and flexible.  Hourglass is also a neat soft-counter: if you're the victim of this card, you lose the last card you drew.  If you draw a card you've been waiting for and you face a Clepsydra, you can Hasten for one more card as a "buffer" against losing the card you need.  Doesn't save you from multiples of these... but use the tactics the situation calls for.

[Jaymanfu]

Oh, good point - still, that would be the only possible use.  I'm glad it returns a card from the hand, that's more powerful and flexible.  Hourglass is also a neat soft-counter: if you're the victim of this card, you lose the last card you drew.  If you draw a card you've been waiting for and you face a Clepsydra, you can Hasten for one more card as a "buffer" against losing the card you need.  Doesn't save you from multiples of these... but use the tactics the situation calls for.

Not only possible use... mindgate also, if you see what there next card is and don't want them to get it... but anyways enough about what the card doesn't do and what it does do interesting idea either way.

[johannhowitzer]

A new reason to use Precognition is never a bad thing.

[SnoWeb]

I'm glad it returns a card from the hand, that's more powerful and flexible.

And it is a new mechanic. It opens a whole lot of new strategies.

you lose the last card you drew.

Maybe the wording "top card" is bad because you are the second person to tell me it would be the last card drawn. Actually as I stated in the notes, I meant the first one (on the top of your hand) = the first card drawn (not the last). Can anyone suggest a better wording then.

Finally something "like" a discard mechanic.  Can you make it "target player" instead of "opponent"?  I don't think something like this is OP if you can use it to prevent decking.  I also like that it can open up hand space.

This is indeed a good idea. It might make the card even more versatile and therefore more interesting. I also don't think it would make it OP. What do you think guys?

A new reason to use Precognition is never a bad thing.

Indeed. Make precognition useful even against AI for something else than the extra draw was kind of the challenge here.

Suggestion of a new wording:
: Liquid time - Send the upper card in the hand of the target player to the bottom of his deck.

Comments?

[SnoWeb]

A little bump for more feedback. Thanks in advance.

[The_Mormegil]

I love the Water / Time synergy. I think Frozen Hourglass obtains that in a more intresting way. Why should this be a Water card? Liquid Time only suggests the term water, but can be easily changed. In fact, if you change the name of the ability to "Temporal Purification" it may very well be a light card.

The fact is, the card is not tied to Water by any mechanical theme. I think this would fit Darkness or even Mono Time better.

Also, this suffers the same problem as the old Dune Scorpion. It can easily "destroy" cards by pushing them to the bottom of the deck. The only difference towards discarding altogether is that in very long matches you're going to draw them again, which is easily avoided by playing a Clepsydra Rush (think of Time Mark Tsunami, or Toadfish/Ghosts). If discarding is taboo as long as there is no Graveyard to manipulate, then this is a no-go too as long as we don't have deck manipulation à la Demonic Tutor (by the way, have you taken a look at Magnet Tracer, the Gravity permanent?).