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Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg305827#msg305827
« on: April 05, 2011, 06:34:15 am »
NAME:
Shy Spirit
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
2 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2|2
TEXT:
Cold breath: In your hand,
switches your mark to Aether.
Hidden beast: When hidden,
reveals its true strength.
NAME:
Mist Spirit
ELEMENT:
Aether
COST:
2 :aether
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
2|4
TEXT:
Cold breath: In your hand,
switches your mark to Aether.
Hidden beast: When hidden,
reveals its true strength.
ART:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1155518 & http://www.sxc.hu/photo/921072 & Product's artsy genius
taken from here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23935.msg327106#msg327106) and a bit modified.
IDEA:
SnoWeb
NOTES:
Cold breath: As soon as Shy/Mist Spirit appears in your hand, your mark switches to Aether. As soon as you don't have Shy/Mist Spirit in your hand anymore, your mark reverts to what it originally was. Together with nightmare or time paradox (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23541.0.html), it can be kind of annoying for your opponent (specially if he uses pendulums).
Hidden beast: As soon as Shy/Mist Spirit is hidden (by cloak and maybe later with other cards), it becomes a mutant of himself. Everything happens as if a mutant is made out of the base creature Shy/Mist Spirit (+1-3| +1-3 for the stats and an additional ability costing 1 or 2 :aether ). As soon as the cloak (or other hidden process) wears off, the Shy/Mist Spirit reverts to its shy form.
SERIES:
Invasive creature series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23363.0.html)
(http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=270&u=10085846)

Offline karis

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Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306087#msg306087
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 06:10:58 pm »
i'm like it the best (for your serie)   

but are that have a reason to make upgraded have lower cost than unupgraded?  are not your opponent will cast it quickly if it have only 1 cost?

Aitvaras

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Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306098#msg306098
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 06:48:07 pm »
At first I love the Cold Breath + Nightmare Synergy, than I figured this is OP.

Because a otherwise mono Darkness deck with mark:darkness can run this (the card allows itself to be played) and have great synergy with Nightmare Cloak and Devourer (mark change = moar quanta denial often) The only thing that keeps it from being totaly overpowered is that any mutant skills will need aether to be played.

Devourers could also help this card clock the opponents hand.

The unupped version could be better than the upped in some situations, which is weird.

Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306100#msg306100
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 06:57:16 pm »
At first I love the Cold Breath + Nightmare Synergy, than I figured this is OP.

Because a otherwise mono Darkness deck with mark:darkness can run this (the card allows itself to be played) and have great synergy with Nightmare Cloak and Devourer (mark change = moar quanta denial often) The only thing that keeps it from being totaly overpowered is that any mutant skills will need aether to be played.

Devourers could also help this card clock the opponents hand.

The unupped version could be better than the upped in some situations, which is weird.
keep in mind only the mark is changed..
unless your opponent uses a deck that relies on the mark to power something, or if he uses pends, this is not OP

Aitvaras

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Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306146#msg306146
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 07:41:06 pm »
I am aware.

I can not explain properly the effect this card could have. Heres just total list of things that can happen when combining it with nightmare and devourers.

The card changes your mark so you can pay for it.
You play a 2/2 Shy Spirit.
Your mark may return to original if no more Shy Spirits are at hand.
You Nightmare the Spirit to drain life.
Your devourers drain the quanta your opponent needs to play his cards.
The opponents mark is changed to aether
The opponent can not draw a card. (no pillars to help get out of denial lock)
The opponent can (sometimes/often idk) not play a card.
The opponent discards one of multiple Shy Spirits/or one of his cards.

next turn:
Your devourers drain the quanta your opponent needs to play his cards.
The opponents mark is still aether (but hes probably not going above 1 aether)
The opponent can (sometimes/often idk) not play a card.
The opponent discards one of multiple Shy Spirits/or one of his cards.

Maybe I am exaggerating... IDK, just picturing a game made me think it's a bit strong being a nice addition to a already strong strategy.

Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306518#msg306518
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 06:41:51 am »
but are that have a reason to make upgraded have lower cost than unupgraded?  are not your opponent will cast it quickly if it have only 1 cost?
The unupped version could be better than the upped in some situations, which is weird.
True. I modified the upped version to change that. What do you think?

At first I love the Cold Breath + Nightmare Synergy, than I figured this is OP.
Because a otherwise mono Darkness deck with mark:darkness can run this (the card allows itself to be played) and have great synergy with Nightmare Cloak and Devourer (mark change = moar quanta denial often) The only thing that keeps it from being totaly overpowered is that any mutant skills will need aether to be played.
This is the whole idea of this card. It is able to perform various task depending on how you play it.
    with cloak: it can do some damage and might be able to give you some nice ability to help you kick the ass of your opponent. As you said, it requires aether to work completelly and it last only 3 turns per cloak.with nightmare: it can change your opponents mark. Remember that with nightmare you send more than one copy of the card in your opponent hand so the strategy is a new type of denial. Also remember that your mark will produce 1 quanta (only) after you finish your turn. It means than after a nightmare (if he doesn't have other aether quanta sources), your opponent will take 2 turns to play the first one. Obviously, if he has other sources, you are pretty much screwed (for this side of the strategy). The good point is that your opponent cannot access the full strength of the "hidden beast" if he does have cloak.with another mark: "Cold Breath" might allow you to play the shy spirit without aether tower/pillar and with another mark (that's why I had at first the upped version costing less). Now if you chose this pass you will need 2 turns to play it just from the mark (same as above). I think this is a really new idea. With this you might be able to play a trio with a good reliability. With the present stats, the creature could be a nice BE holder in an entropy/darkness duo for example. This was never done before ...
    [/list]
    Devourers could also help this card clock the opponents hand.
    This is the ability of devourer not of Shy Spirit itself. The combination is way more powerful with GotP, IMO. Indeed, here you don't want that your opponent discards shy spirit. On the contrary you would want him to discard GotP. On top of that GotP cost 6|7 :time which is very difficult to play.

    At first I love the Cold Breath + Nightmare Synergy, than I figured this is OP.
    I read your arguments carefully and I still do not see where it is OP. You cannot lock your opponent. You have a lot of weaknesses. The creature is fragile. It requires a lot of combo to work properly. However, I am not completely sure about the cost. What do you guys think?

    Aitvaras

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    Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306601#msg306601
    « Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 11:01:46 am »
    At first I love the Cold Breath + Nightmare Synergy, than I figured this is OP.
    I read your arguments carefully and I still do not see where it is OP. You cannot lock your opponent. You have a lot of weaknesses. The creature is fragile. It requires a lot of combo to work properly. However, I am not completely sure about the cost. What do you guys think?
    The fix on the upped looks real good to me, wouldn't be terrible to see an aether creature with more HP than damage. This also helps with the fragile aspect of the creature so thumbs up.

    The combination is strong (lets forget about OP.. sorry I said that.) because it adds to something that can already be devastating to some. In comparison to the GotP deck you describe it is'nt to strong indeed.. but this does have a even more "locking" effect and is way easier to pull of, although not quite as ~destructive~ as combined with GotP.

    I guess anybody could learn to avoid most of the trouble these cards could bring.. which makes them fine/cool.

    Time paradox + this card is a method of denial than can by pass sanctuary? That is way awesome aswell :)

    Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306603#msg306603
    « Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 11:16:02 am »
    you are exaggerating things...
    I think GotP+rewind+nightmare is still the better combo that takes less time to set up (this combo needs at least 3~4 pests, which takes a while)

    Aitvaras

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    Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306610#msg306610
    « Reply #8 on: April 06, 2011, 11:29:22 am »
    you are exaggerating things...
    I think GotP+rewind+nightmare is still the better combo that takes less time to set up (this combo needs at least 3~4 pests, which takes a while)
    Well, yes, I might be exaggerating alot.

    But HOW does GotP+rewind+nightmare take less time ~_~? You dont need the 3 pests in play when you start, and this "combo" barely takes any quanta. All I want you to see is how this card adds a few little things to it that work together realy well..

    the nightmare makes him not draw one card, the mark change will delay casting his own stuff.. any pests added before or after will keep his mark on aether.. I know I'm like looking for situations, but these situations is where devourer shines, and they'll become harder with this. How can't you see that?!

    Im just being enthausiastic right now, nothing wrong with it being cool and decent!

    Sorry for being wrong, exaggerating and not knowing when to stop XD But thats just how I am. ^^

    Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306618#msg306618
    « Reply #9 on: April 06, 2011, 11:40:01 am »
    well... thing is, without 3~4 devourers, just changing the mark (unless your opponent depends on the mark heavily) is not going to cut it... a discord will do more denial...

    Aitvaras

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    Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306620#msg306620
    « Reply #10 on: April 06, 2011, 11:43:02 am »
    yes.. but any devourer deck would be trying to get out such numbers of devourers.. and this helps it + gives you more time to actualy have them out, and at some point it may realy just force the opponent choising between not playing cards to eventualy get out all the spirits or just have his mark changed for quite awhile.

    Offline SnoWebTopic starter

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    Re: Shy Spirit | Mist Spirit https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23948.msg306624#msg306624
    « Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 11:51:12 am »
    well... thing is, without 3~4 devourers, just changing the mark (unless your opponent depends on the mark heavily) is not going to cut it... a discord will do more denial...
    To change the mark of your opponent to Aether can be useful:
      if he relies on it to power SN (needs to be done early)if he needs the mark for part of his strategy (e.g. GotP/nightmare or Shrieker Rush)if he uses pendulums (if you change the mark you change what is produced by the pendulum)against FG who rely only on their mark to play some cardsmaybe in other circumstances I did not yet foresee ...
    These are new play situations, IMO. All this could be amplified with devourers or earthquakes but could also work alone (just with nightmare).

     

    blarg: