Time's Arrow | Time's Arrow

[johannhowitzer]

NAME: Time's Arrow ELEMENT: Time COST: 7 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Send the target player's hand and creatures back 2 turns.	NAME: Time's Arrow ELEMENT: Time COST: 6 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Send the target player's hand and creatures back 2 turns.

ART: Product IDEA: johannhowitzer NOTES: Many thanks to Product (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3297) for the quality artwork! In a nutshell: - If the player who uses Time's Arrow targets himself, his creature field will be set back to the start of two turns ago.  His hand will also be set back two turns, but AFTER he drew on that turn. - If he targets his opponent, said opponent's creature field will be set back to how it looked during the caster's turn, two turns ago.  The opponent's hand will be set back to the same time, BEFORE the following draw. The effect may sound confusing, but here's a timeline to show how each player would be affected: PLAYER OPPONENT Turn 1 draw <-- Player would be sent here Turn 1 plays <-- Opponent would be sent here Turn 1 draw Turn 1 plays Turn 2 draw Turn 2 plays Turn 2 draw Turn 2 plays Turn 3 draw Turn 3 plays Time's Arrow is played Now for some of the details surrounding what I'm sure is a somewhat confusing mechanic!  If you want to comment on this card, PLEASE read all of these - your concerns may already have been addressed.  I've tried to make them at least a little entertaining.  1. Principle Of Selective Reversion: The following things are NOT affected: - Player health - Player poison - Immortal creatures - Permanents - Deck contents - Quantum pool 2. You Can't Change The Past: If a creature was in play before Time's Arrow's "destination" point, it will remain on the field.  It may still be affected if it was changed somehow (growth, status effects, blessings, etc.) in the intervening time. 3. Bring Me Peter Pan: Despite the fact that you're grabbing a hand and field from the past, both players remain in the present and continue to age, and the spell's reach is limited.  This means that successive Time's Arrow spells targeted at the same player during the same turn will have no additional effect, they will simply keep retrieving the same things from two turns ago.  It is not possible to continue reaching further back into the past.  (This has been put in place to seal off some major potential mechanical issues with the card's coding!) 4. Can't Take It With You: The Time's Arrow card that is used to generate this effect is an exception.  If it had been in the caster's hand two turns ago, it will not be restored. 5. My Dimension Is Bigger Than Yours: Immortal creatures are unaffected BOTH WAYS.  This means that if an immortal creature wasn't in play at the "destination" point, it will still not be erased from the field.  It also means that if an immortal creature was changed or destroyed after the "destination" point (perhaps by shields or poison), it will not be restored.  Immortal creatures are outside the flow of time. 6. Howitzer's Temporal Vacuum: Note that this spell will cause the draws labeled in red on the above table to be "lost in the river of time" - UNLESS they were permanents or immortal creatures, and were played before Time's Arrow went off. This card may seem powerful, but it will require planning and strategy to use effectively.  In some cases, you may actually help your opponent without meaning to - for example, you could give him the opportunity to play a permanent or spell twice. SERIES: None

[hammythepig]

Definiatly consume all  with this card, or else you could theoretically spam them into their -5th turn.
That might cause problems, unless you just divide by zero.


Cool idea, but one question:
Can the game's programming even handle something like this?

[TuckingFypo]

There was an idea like this in the smithy was flamed for being a mass insta-kill card. :p (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23303.0.html)

[johannhowitzer]

Yes, it can.  The variables that are used to keep track of everything are just expanded into an extra array-dimension, and that extra dimension contains values at 0 (current status), 1 (player 1's turn after draw one turn ago), 2 (player 2's turn after draw one turn ago), 3 (player 1's turn after draw 2 turns ago), and 4 (player 2's turn after draw two turns ago).  Each time a turn's initial draw is made, the new instance is recorded and everything already in 1, 2, and 3 drops down one layer.  Players would only experience a slight (read: fraction of a second) delay after every turn's initial draw, the storage space to keep track of all this is minimal.

One great reason to consume all is to avoid having to store more than two turns ago - although it IS theoretically still possible to cast two of these in one turn.  You have to have had four Supernovas and one Time's Arrow two turns ago after the draw, and drawn a second Time's Arrow any time from then until the first casting.

The only way I can see to avoid this recursion would be to increase the cost (both unupped and upped) to at least 15 - this is more than 7 supernovas can refund.  If you factor in Electrum Hourglasses and luck, it gets even CRAZIER.  Plus since the reversion is two turns, you could cast Time's Arrow on back to back turns, totaling 3 turns of rewindage...

I've been hashing this card around in my brain for weeks, and I did think of these possible issues.  At one point, my idea changed to a permanent, to introduce both 1) summoning sickness, and 2) an early warning for opponents.  I might still do that.  Heck, this is an Arrow we're talking about... I also thought of making it a weapon.


Tucking: sure, but there are significant differences:
1. Permanents are totally unaffected.
2. The amount of turns a player can be sent back is fixed, while the Gate of Remembrance could send you back massively.
3. Hand is also affected, meaning some creatures played may actually be "partially-rewound" into the opponent's hand.  This also means you may allow your opponent to duplicate a few of his permanents or use a spell again.

I put a LOT of thought into this before I posted.  There are a few hairy issues to be cleaned up somehow - like the programming end of things, and reverting more than two turns - but I believe this can be balanced well enough to be interesting and strategic, but not massively powerful.

[johannhowitzer]

Decided to make a double post, so I can collect some balancing options in more readable form here...

OPTION 1: Consume all quanta.
+ Partially solves the problem of too much reversion.
- Does not totally prevent two casts in one turn, or even two casts on back to back turns.

OPTION 2: Reduce reversion to 1 turn.
+ Solves the problem of casting on back to back turns.
- Does not totally prevent two casts in one turn.

OPTION 3: Become a Permanent.
+ Creates summoning sickness, which can warn an opponent it's coming.
- Multiple permanents may be stacked to revert multiple times in one turn.

OPTION 4: Become a Weapon.
+ Fits well conceptually; creates summoning sickness; only one weapon slot means they almost cannot be stacked, except...
- While flown copies might be reverted if played within the last two turns, ones which have been quinted or played further in the past will remain, allowing multiple reversions to be stacked on the same turn.

I am open to further suggestions.

[TuckingFypo]

I'd vote for Option 1 and Option 3. I don't really see any cons in Option 1, and instead of making the playing of the card cost all  quanta, make actually using the permanent cost all  quanta.  That way it can't be used multiple times per turn, and it's not an instantaneous spell.

[hammythepig]

I'd vote for Option 1 and Option 3. I don't really see any cons in Option 1, and instead of making the playing of the card cost all  quanta, make actually using the permanent cost all  quanta.  That way it can't be used multiple times per turn, and it's not an instantaneous spell.

I think this is good. No point in typing it again.

[johannhowitzer]

The only reason I didn't combine options 1&3 or 1&4 was because having a permanent with an active ability that consumes all quanta of a type would be a totally new mechanic for the game.  Of course there also has to be a minimum cost, otherwise it's essentially zero... and how do you display both the minimum and "consumes-all" on the active ability displayed under the card when it's on the field?

Of course, as long as the card says "consumes all" somewhere, you could just have the minimum displayed.  But it's still kind of hairy.

[Product]

Not the best work I've ever done, but I hope it works for ya 

(http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd165408/TimesArrow1) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd165409/TimesArrow2)


Source:
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1057025
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/742956
http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1088572

[johannhowitzer]

Quick and quality!  I'll definitely be calling on you again.  I'm gonna cannibalize the art within the card, 'cause there are bound to be changes to this card's text.

[Product]

here 
(http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd165425/timesArrow)

[Glitch]

Use it on yourself to chain sundials.

GG.