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rohlfo

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Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286139#msg286139
« on: March 08, 2011, 01:33:54 pm »
 

NAME:
Troll
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
5 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4|8
TEXT:
:gravity :gravity: Charge.   Swap Troll's attack and HP, and gain momentum for one turn. Troll is then delayed for 1 turn.
NAME:
Troll
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
5 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4|8
TEXT:
:gravity: Charge.   Swap Troll's attack and HP, and gain momentum for one turn. Troll is then delayed for 1 turn.
ART:
rohlfo
background is a picture by dan http://www.freedigitalphotos.net/images/view_photog.php?photogid=587
IDEA:
Zblader (original) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20252.msg276318#msg276318), rohlfo
NOTES:
Life has small creatures.....and then Emerald Dragon, this would fill that gap as a middle/high cost creature.
delay happens after attack.
Trolls are thick skinned hence the attack|HP. Once they get running though they're hard to stop! but it also makes them more vulnerable. Once they've crashed into something they need time to gather themselves/stand up again etc
SERIES:
feedback on attack|HP, cost, upgrade bonus option, and card in general very welcome :)

Offline Boingo

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286155#msg286155
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2011, 02:04:05 pm »
If they charge into a turtle shell, are they delayed for 2 turns?
Bring back Holy Cow!

rohlfo

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286157#msg286157
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2011, 02:12:12 pm »
If they charge into a turtle shell, are they delayed for 2 turns?
good point, erm, atm I don't think it should be 2 turns, just 1? I'm sure the Troll can sort itself out in that 1 turn delay from TS?
Same for any sort of delay I guess (mainly thinking of BB with that, possibly the one card to make this OP)

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286163#msg286163
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 02:25:11 pm »
If they charge into a turtle shell, are they delayed for 2 turns?
good point, erm, atm I don't think it should be 2 turns, just 1? I'm sure the Troll can sort itself out in that 1 turn delay from TS?
Same for any sort of delay I guess (mainly thinking of BB with that, possibly the one card to make this OP)
TS is meant as a 50% shield. 3 turns of delay would be the 50% for Troll. 2turns is the literal effect and is already a break for the troll.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
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rohlfo

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286848#msg286848
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2011, 09:32:44 am »
If they charge into a turtle shell, are they delayed for 2 turns?
good point, erm, atm I don't think it should be 2 turns, just 1? I'm sure the Troll can sort itself out in that 1 turn delay from TS?
Same for any sort of delay I guess (mainly thinking of BB with that, possibly the one card to make this OP)
TS is meant as a 50% shield. 3 turns of delay would be the 50% for Troll. 2turns is the literal effect and is already a break for the troll.
So you think 2 turns is the fairest? TS doesn't always get the 50% atm (adrenaline) so would be ok if Troll doesn't have to sit out 3 turns?

Do you think the stats are too high? I started lower but thought, why not, because there is no life middle/high hitter?

Offline vrt

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286890#msg286890
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2011, 12:27:54 pm »
Suggested alternative artwork:





Also,

So long and thanks for all the fish!

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286979#msg286979
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 05:11:02 pm »
If they charge into a turtle shell, are they delayed for 2 turns?
good point, erm, atm I don't think it should be 2 turns, just 1? I'm sure the Troll can sort itself out in that 1 turn delay from TS?
Same for any sort of delay I guess (mainly thinking of BB with that, possibly the one card to make this OP)
TS is meant as a 50% shield. 3 turns of delay would be the 50% for Troll. 2turns is the literal effect and is already a break for the troll.
So you think 2 turns is the fairest? TS doesn't always get the 50% atm (adrenaline) so would be ok if Troll doesn't have to sit out 3 turns?

Do you think the stats are too high? I started lower but thought, why not, because there is no life middle/high hitter?
2 turns is the fairest.
(adrenaline would not be used on Troll)8d2 d 8d2 d 8d2 is not a good use of 3 :life +1card
I am going to reserve final judgement on balance for later when midnar and I finish our new design theory.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
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rohlfo

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg286990#msg286990
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 05:31:50 pm »
2 turns is the fairest.
(adrenaline would not be used on Troll)8d2 d 8d2 d 8d2 is not a good use of 3 :life +1card
I am going to reserve final judgement on balance for later when midnar and I finish our new design theory.
ok, thanks, I'll wait for that before submitting, no rush, I'm more excited to read yours and Midnar's design theory than this card lol.

@ vrt, if you know if that pics not copyrighted I'll promise to use it if this card gets through the Crucible?  :))

LongDono

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg287012#msg287012
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 06:31:55 pm »
Every time I go back to this topic I wish this card was in the game so I can play a deck around it can before I beat people I can message them " you got trolled".

rohlfo

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg287138#msg287138
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 10:58:32 pm »
Every time I go back to this topic I wish this card was in the game so I can play a deck around it can before I beat people I can message them " you got trolled".
haha, awesome! I see the name itself carries more than the idea lol, surprised no one has used it before!

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg289921#msg289921
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2011, 12:32:46 am »
CURATOR COMMENT:
-Please move the text preceding your table to the NOTES section.
-Please remove the text from the SERIES section of your table.

Interesting card. I like it. :)

Also: LOL vrt
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mightyforest

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Re: Troll | Troll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22583.msg293189#msg293189
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2011, 12:03:56 pm »
LOL I must admit I was attracted here by the title, thinking this was joke to bash internet trolls so now I'm disappointed... joke :) This is a very nice idea~

The effect of card is nice. The NOTES explains the physical cause for it's ability perfectly.

Opinions (specific to upped version)

Imo the cost per atk/dmg ratio kind of doesn't make sense though, I can't imagine myself paying :gravity to get out 8 damage in 1 turn then getting delayed as opposed to just let the troll troll (^^) for 2 turns and getting those 8 damage in anyway. If the argument was to get by dmg reduction shields, it's a terrible trade off,  :gravity for 1 or 2 extra damage?

On top of that, why would you ever play troll if you don't use its ability, since all the other life critters are dirt cheap (2~3  :life less per)... and they all have higher atk (10 dmg/ 2 turns)than troll if it doesn't use ability (8 dmg/2 turns).

Can i possibly suggest raising def and lowering attack so it's actually worth it at some point to use the ability? Just pulling numbers out of my head is bad because i suck at guestimating but maybe for 2/10 I'll pay  5 :life for a creature like this, roughly. In all honesty if it weren't for heavy armor (+0/+6) I'd even have written 2/12 cuz accumulated damage in a situation where you use ability at every instance you can will go like this compared to a frog Cocktrice (cuz we all know frog is not a fair comparison of cost/benefit ratio):

Cockt (5/5): 3 :life  5 | 10  | 15 | 20 | 25 | 30 | 35 | 40 | 45 | 50
Troll (4/8)  : 5 :life  4 | 12  | 12 | 20 | 20 | 28 | 28 | 36 | 36 | 44
Troll (2/10): 5 :life  2 | 12  | 12 | 22 | 22 | 32 | 42 | 42 | 52 | 52

You see why I say it's not appealing? In fact after making that table i won't even take it for 2/10 either, it's just not worth its price because you need to expend  :gravity every other turn. The heavy armor situation is a different matter, but obviously that's a trio so...

Question: Does the swapped stats last during the delayed phase of the creature? or is it more like a dive kind of mechanism where you swap-atk-then stats are reverted immediately before your opponent can act?

It kind of makes a difference because if the stat swap goes away immediately the troll realistically isn't 'vulnerable' at any time.

Thank you for making this and hopefully my comments are helpful in anyway. Good luck in moving to the next level~.



 

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