Forced Hand | Forced Choice

[Ignion]

NAME: Forced Hand ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 5 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Select a card. Opponent is forced to use it in his turn. If there are insufficient quanta, the card is removed.	NAME: Forced Choice ELEMENT: Entropy COST: 5 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Opponent must select one of your cards at the end of his turn. Play the card at no cost in your turn.

ART: Ignion IDEA: Ignion NOTES: Some clarifications. Forced Hand lets you choose cards in your opponent's hand or cards with "manually activated effects" on your opponent's field. I think the first is straight forward, so let me explain the latter. For example, you could choose "Eagle's Eye." If the opponent cannot use its effect due to lack of air quanta, Eagle's Eye is removed. The same goes to a creature with active effects such as devour. One more thing, opponent is "forced" to use the card. This means that if you select Eagle's Eye and if there is no monster on your side, your opponent has no choice but attack his own monster. If there are no monsters on the field, Eagle's Eye is removed because it failed to meet this card's requirement. This is deeper than what this card looks at a glance. In Forced Choice, your opponent cannot see your hand. He must blindly select one of your cards, and you hope it'll be a good one. Both cards are destroyed once they serve their purpose (not reusable). If you like this card, please vote if/when it makes into crucible. Please also support my avatar series: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19650.0.html  SERIES:

[OldTrees]

The upgraded version will not work. Zanz has vetoed both players acting during 1 turn.
The unupped is very similar to a Darkness card recently suggested by Hyroen.http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21302.0.html

[Ignion]

Hi, OldTrees.

Thanks for the input. However, my card effect is not "very" similar to the card you linked there. I went to read it, and it's quite different, especially in terms of consequences and strategies it provides.

I'm guessing my explanation was not sufficient, so let me clarify what my cards do.

You play this card, and what happens is that "you pick one of your opponent's cards in their hands." Then, either of the following happens:

1. If the opponent has enough quanta for the card, the card is played immediately (and, the opponent loses the quanta for that of course). This screws up opponent's plan/strategy.

2. If the opponent does not have enough quanta for the card, the card is discarded. Ouch!

Also, please remember that the opponent is "forced" to use the card. Some may then think so what? However, there are many deeper events that can happen with this. I'll give you some examples:

Example 1: Let's say that the card you chose was Fractal. The opponent was saving that card to pull a combo. However, the only creatures on the field are all crappy cards. But, your opponent is "forced" to use it, so s/he has to use Fractal and end up with cards they don't really want in their hands.

Example 2: Let's say that the card you chose was Creamation. Your opponent was waiting to use that card on a creature they don't need or phoenix. But, let's say that your opponent had Lava Golem on his/her field. Well, the opponent is "forced" to use it, so goodbye to Lava Golem.

Example 3: Let's say that the card you chose was Adrenaline. And, let's say that your opponent does not have creatures on their field, or you killed the last one. And, you have a creature on yours. Your opponent is "forced" to use Adrenaline, so in this case, your opponent has not choice but to use that on your creature. Yay! (the same can happen with Chaos Power, etc. Any boost cards).

Example 4: Let's say that the card you chose was Antimatter. Your opponent was waiting to use that on your powerful creature. But, at the moment, you don't have any creatures. Your opponent is "forced" to use it, so s/he has to use it on his/her own creature. Yay! OR, you do have a creature but a weak one with 2 ATTK or something. Your opponent has to waste Antimatter on that rather than your high ATTK monster you have yet to place on the field. If Neither has creatures at the time, Antimatter goes to waste. Ouch.

Example 5: Let's say that the card you chose was Steal. Your opponent was waiting to steal your valuable shield, weapon, etc. But, at the moment, you only have cards like towers. Your opponent is sadly "forced" to use the card, which means your opponent has to steal a tower.

I think you can see that this card and its game play is very different from the temptation card. It's not random. It's strategized. You can think of many, many more possibilities with this. Also, even if there were cards with similar ideas, I don't remember that being exlusion criteria. Fire bolt & Ice bolt? Also, I humbly think that my card and its element, entropy, is much more appropriate and themed together (no offense to the creator of Temptation).

Entropy elementals deal with disarray and chaotic creatures; they love to confuse their opponent and gamble with luck and probabilities.

Also, for the upped card, it's too bad that the system does not allow for it, but who knows? Maybe programmers can find ways to improve the system if enough card ideas call for such feature? Afterall, it's an evolving game. Fortunately, with this card, the only "active" part for your opponent is "picking a card," which doesn't require much time or coding. BTW, your opponent is not able to see your cards. He just click on one of your face down cards.

[Hodari]

BTW, your opponent is not able to see your cards. He just click on one of your face down cards.

Then why not eliminate the problem of needing to have both players active on the same turn altogether by simply having it say one of your cards is picked at random?

[Rutarete]

BTW, your opponent is not able to see your cards. He just click on one of your face down cards.

Then why not eliminate the problem of needing to have both players active on the same turn altogether by simply having it say one of your cards is picked at random?

That contradicts the basic principle of the card and you'd might as well call it Blind Pick or something.
BTW Ignion, you have 2 example 3s

[Nepycros]

Have it a Permanent that stays on the field for 1 turn. When it's your opponent's turn, they aren't allowed to end their turn until they click your permanent so it goes into Targeting Mode, which is what I call any situation where you have to pick a target. When it goes to Targeting Mode, they click a card. Only then can they end their turn.

[Ignion]

Thank you for pointing that out,  Rutarete.

And, yes, aside from what Rutarete pointed out, random pick is not as exciting as forcing your opponent to pick. The fate is not decided by a computer but your actual choice. Personally, I find it more thrilling. If I lose just because the computer picked a really good card, that's completely different from when I picked one myself. "Oh no! I should have picked the other one!"

Great suggestion to work around the current system limitation, Nepycros. I'll definitely take that into consideration when revising this card (I'm actually working on a new card, right now, so I'll come back to this one in a bit).

I appreciate your comments

[OldTrees]

By very similar Ignion I meant that they both dealt with strategy disruption or positioning with nightmare through the means forcing the opponent to use one of their cards. It was like commenting that Fire Spirit and Lava Golem are very similar if they were the only growing creatures that existed.

Your version has more precog synergy and more control. Temptation has more nightmare synergy and less control. (other differences exist too)

I was not attacking this card with my comment about the unupped. I was pointing to another set of comments that would help improve this card. I like both of these ideas and would appreciate if Temptation and the unupped Forced hand were added to the game.

However, the upgraded still does not work because it requires actions from both players during the same turn which is prohibited by the current design in pvp. Zanz has commented on this before and said that it would require adding pseudo turns which would be much more work than it is worth and cause many more desync problems.

I would change Forced Choice into a cheaper version of Forced Hand.

[Rutarete]

I would change Forced Choice into a cheaper version of Forced Hand.

That or change cost to accommodate 2 cards instead of 1

[OldTrees]

I would change Forced Choice into a cheaper version of Forced Hand.

That or change cost to accommodate 2 cards instead of 1

It is typically a bad idea to suggest 2 ideas in one card. Multitargeting is not something in game and had some shenanigans with canceling that will probably keep it that way.

[Rutarete]

I would change Forced Choice into a cheaper version of Forced Hand.

That or change cost to accommodate 2 cards instead of 1

It is typically a bad idea to suggest 2 ideas in one card. Multitargeting is not something in game and had some shenanigans with canceling that will probably keep it that way.

grrrrr, not that multi-targeting problem again! Alright, it's decided. Next year i'm taking a programming class.

[OldTrees]

I would change Forced Choice into a cheaper version of Forced Hand.

That or change cost to accommodate 2 cards instead of 1

It is typically a bad idea to suggest 2 ideas in one card. Multitargeting is not something in game and had some shenanigans with canceling that will probably keep it that way.

grrrrr, not that multi-targeting problem again! Alright, it's decided. Next year i'm taking a programming class.

First find out why it has this problem. (I only have a vague recollection) It may not be fixable. Someone on the forum knows what the reason is.