Capacity | Capacity

[wizelsnarf]

NAME: Capacity ELEMENT: gravity COST: 4 TYPE: Spell TEXT: Target quanta pool's capacity is limited to 15. Excess quanta overflows into other pools.	NAME: Capacity ELEMENT: Gravity COST: 3 TYPE: Spell TEXT: Target quanta pool's capacity is limited to 15. Excess quanta overflows into other pools.

ART: Wikimedia Commons: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sennindani_dam.jpg IDEA: wizelsnarf NOTES: *Art is just a place holder. If people like the idea and think it should move to crucible, I will create art for it myself. I figure if Sanctuary ever gets implemented, we need more cards to mess with your quanta and make Sanctuary worthwhile! This card is the cure to the OP Firestall. I tried to make it fair so that you could play EVERY Dragon regardless of element. Perhaps this makes it too weak - though its effect is permanent. If you use this spell 6 times, then 6 quanta pools will be locked at 15 and the remaining 6 will continue to fill up.

[funerallaughter]

i'd actually use this on myself with pends/ Fractal + Hope/ Leaf Dragon decks XP

though, it screws with a lot of Firebolt and Icebolt now too, maybe it needs a timer?

[OldTrees]

With Rustler and Capacity (Life) would cause NI (arbitrarily large quantities of) quanta. If you then destroy capacity after gaining NI and you will have NI too.

I do not think Elements wants to deal with NI quantities of anything.

If this is the case then the self targeting version of Capacity should be changed to eliminate this consequence.
If such a change is not possible then making it target the opponent's pools only would be needed but not ideal.

PS: The table has a typo in the Element section of the unupped version. is a quanta type not an element. Gravity is the element.

[wizelsnarf]

With Rustler and Capacity (Life) would cause NI (arbitrarily large quantities of) quanta. If you then destroy capacity after gaining NI and you will have NI too.

I do not think Elements wants to deal with NI quantities of anything.

If this is the case then the self targeting version of Capacity should be changed to eliminate this consequence.
If such a change is not possible then making it target the opponent's pools only would be needed but not ideal.

PS: The table has a typo in the Element section of the unupped version. is a quanta type not an element. Gravity is the element.

That is a duo and furthermore you are going to need a lot of quanta production.

You would need to gain 15 before anything happened and then the excess would be randomly distributed across other elements. So if you were producing 6 / per turn and already had 15 , you would then have 6 per turn. Or about .5 light per turn.

I think for a cost of 4 or 3 that is really not that OP considering all the conditions that would need to be met. Probably wouldn't be worth it. Though yes this might be a nice way to do rainbows. It would be like the 3rd nova in the game.

[OldTrees]

With Rustler and Capacity (Life) would cause NI (arbitrarily large quantities of) quanta. If you then destroy capacity after gaining NI and you will have NI too.

I do not think Elements wants to deal with NI quantities of anything.

If this is the case then the self targeting version of Capacity should be changed to eliminate this consequence.
If such a change is not possible then making it target the opponent's pools only would be needed but not ideal.

PS: The table has a typo in the Element section of the unupped version. is a quanta type not an element. Gravity is the element.

That is a duo and furthermore you are going to need a lot of quanta production.

You would need to gain 15 before anything happened and then the excess would be randomly distributed across other elements. So if you were producing 6 / per turn and already had 15 , you would then have 6 per turn. Or about .5 light per turn.

I think for a cost of 4 or 3 that is really not that OP considering all the conditions that would need to be met. Probably wouldn't be worth it. Though yes this might be a nice way to do rainbows. It would be like the 3rd nova in the game.

I was not claiming it to be OP.
I was claiming that permitting NI numbers might lead to a different type of game due to the other less harmless NI effects.
However I did not think about whether there would be a decaying effect (which there is)
Once 15 is achieved and Capacity (Life) is cast each  will return on average (2/11) and (20/11) non  through Rustler. This means that the amount of quanta will never reach NI but stay at a finite cap per per turn.

PS: Does anyone one how to calculate the expected value for the infinite series progression of Capacity + Rustler?

[wizelsnarf]

Hmm yeah I don't know how to do the math

Well there is a 10/11 chance 1 quanta overflows into a non pool. So that is 100/121  chance that it will not create any  when rustler activates.

If you had 10 to start with there would be about ~85% chance of getting at least 1 back. But in general it is only like 82% chance for each  of getting  back.


Wish I knew what I was talking about and could give some better info out. The decay does mean that eventually rustler won't work anymore.

[OldTrees]

I think I figured the math out.

X=1+r+r^2+r^3 ... +r^n
X=(1/r)(r+r^2+r^3+r^4 ... +r^n+1)
Y=X/r=(r+r^2+r^3+r^4 ... +r^n+1)
Y=r(1+Y)-r^n+2
As N goes to infinity, r^n+2 goes to 0
Y=r(1+Y)
Y=r+rY
Y(1-r)=r
Y=r/(1-r)R=12-# of capacities cast with full pools
X=(1/r)(1/r)(2X)+2(1/r)( (r-1)/r )(1+X)+( (r-1)/r )( (r-1)/r )(2)
X=(1/r)(1/r)(2X)+2(1/r)( (r-1)/r )(1+X)+( (r-1)/r )( (r-1)/r )(2)
X=2X/r^2 + 2(r-1)/r^2 + 2X(r-1)/r^2 + 2(r-1)(r-1)/r^2
X(r^2)=2X + 2(r-1) + 2X(r-1) + 2(r-1)(r-1)
X(r^2) - 2X - 2X(r-1)= 2(r-1) + 2(r-1)(r-1)
X(r^2-2-2r-2)= 2r(r-1)
X= 2r(r-1) / (r^2-2r-4)
When r=11, X= 2x11x10 / (121-22-4) = 220 / 95 = 2.32

# of full pools	per
1	2.32
2	2.37
3	2.44
4	2.55
5	2.71
6	3.00

9 Capacities need to be used before this goes NI.
At 8 Capacities it is 6 per .

Rustler disynergy can be ignored.

[rohlfo]

I've only glanced at the maths as I've been way too busy and still will be for a few weeks....seems you have found an answer so this may be irrelevant, but on glancing the statement: r^n+2 -> 0 as n-> infinity seems false :s

My feelings tell me this infinite series doesn't necessarily converge, so no finite sum?
Also, not sure if a starting value of  quanta needs to be considered in this....if you start this procession with already 10 then it could go on for longer...?

I suck at applied maths but was once quite nifty at pure maths, but it's been a while lol. Perhaps I'm wrong and just not seeing it right, I'm willing to admit that.

Not quite sure I understand your "r" value, perhaps that's where I'm not seeing it, but as said only glanced, if you want I'll try invest some time into this, but if you have a satisfactory answer I'll leave it be (since it'll take a while to get my memory in gear about all of this again lol)

[OldTrees]

I've only glanced at the maths as I've been way too busy and still will be for a few weeks....seems you have found an answer so this may be irrelevant, but on glancing the statement: r^n+2 -> 0 as n-> infinity seems false :s
since r < 1, r^(n+2) as n->infinite goes to 0
My feelings tell me this infinite series doesn't necessarily converge, so no finite sum?
Also, not sure if a starting value of  quanta needs to be considered in this....if you start this procession with already 10 then it could go on for longer...?
It has a small finite sum. If you start with 10 then it will produce 10x the per value. It measures how much  is created until the initial is not returned. This process occurs per initial
I suck at applied maths but was once quite nifty at pure maths, but it's been a while lol. Perhaps I'm wrong and just not seeing it right, I'm willing to admit that.
I think it was your quick scan that is the problem. A reread would have you understanding it.
Not quite sure I understand your "r" value, perhaps that's where I'm not seeing it, but as said only glanced, if you want I'll try invest some time into this, but if you have a satisfactory answer I'll leave it be (since it'll take a while to get my memory in gear about all of this again lol)
r is the chance of  being created.

[wizelsnarf]

So what do you think of the idea, math aside?

I would add there is the case of casting it on all 12 elements. Could be achieved with simple 12 instances or with a mindgate. In either case, 15 quanta in each pool is still plenty enough to cast everything so I don't think it would be a big deal.

This would mostly mess up monos that rely on heavy quanta and as also pointed out could be used to create a rainbow for yourself. But 15 is pretty generous.



Is the idea good? If so how is the balance?

[rohlfo]

I've only glanced at the maths as I've been way too busy and still will be for a few weeks....seems you have found an answer so this may be irrelevant, but on glancing the statement: r^n+2 -> 0 as n-> infinity seems false :s
since r < 1, r^(n+2) as n->infinite goes to 0 ah yes, makes sense now with the brackets
My feelings tell me this infinite series doesn't necessarily converge, so no finite sum?
Also, not sure if a starting value of  quanta needs to be considered in this....if you start this procession with already 10 then it could go on for longer...?
It has a small finite sum. If you start with 10 then it will produce 10x the per value. It measures how much  is created until the initial is not returned. This process occurs per initial
I suck at applied maths but was once quite nifty at pure maths, but it's been a while lol. Perhaps I'm wrong and just not seeing it right, I'm willing to admit that.
I think it was your quick scan that is the problem. A reread would have you understanding it. as said, am willing to admit that, just picked out a couple of questions on the quick scan
Not quite sure I understand your "r" value, perhaps that's where I'm not seeing it, but as said only glanced, if you want I'll try invest some time into this, but if you have a satisfactory answer I'll leave it be (since it'll take a while to get my memory in gear about all of this again lol)
r is the chance of  being created.  did think so, just checking

maths aside? do like the idea, I know quanta pool targeting has not been implemented yet, but this might be a card to make a step in that direction! Beats monos as you say, but obviously FB and Fahrenheit etc etc. Balance is tricky as against some decks it will be really crucial and make or break the game, in others have very little effect :s

[wizelsnarf]

Is 15 a good number to cap at? it allows all current cards to be played, unupped miracle included.


14 is the next most expensive card, the phase dragon.


any suggestions for improvement? What should I do before I consider submitting to crucible? (not even sure if the idea is worth submitting)