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Offline EssenceTopic starter

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Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222343#msg222343
« on: December 11, 2010, 09:45:50 pm »
I introduced this idea when the Shard of Readiness got nerfed due to dive abuse, and I'm re-suggesting it now because Sky Blitz is too expensive for what it does, but must be that expensive to prevent it from being cast twice in one turn.  And it shouldn't be cast twice in one turn because it quadruples the ATK of the creature it effects.

If Dive were additive, rather than multiplicative -- in other words, if it said "Add this creatures' Full ATK to it's Current ATK -- at the end of the turn, this creature's Current ATK becomes equal to it's Full ATK" (rather than like now, where it says "Double this creature's Current ATK -- at the end of the turn, this creature's Current ATK becomes equal to it's Full ATK.") -- then you could not only have a Sky Blitz that was less expensive because casting it three times only tripled your ATK instead of sextupling it, but you could put the SoR's ability to make creature powers used right away back, which would be pure awesome.


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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222350#msg222350
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2010, 09:51:11 pm »
I agree. This would solve a lot and if SoR can be returned to its previous function then Time can have an improved version of SoR which would be nice.
Pros:
Everything stated above
small nerf to anything that would reduce current attack but not full attack
small nerf to anything that would increase current attack but not full attack
Cons:
Weakens Dive + Twin Universe
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Offline Hyroen

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222363#msg222363
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 10:08:50 pm »
Wyrms and Pegasi are strong but really, they aren't THAT strong and are extremely vulnerable to creature control and Paradox, Maxwell Demon's skill.

Dive is fine as is, and frankly Air deserves this. To make Dive effective with creatures that use it, you normally have to buff them anyways, and aside, they increase their attack at a highly expensive or off-element cost, which quickly leads to them being very inefficient compared to a Graboid's Evolve or Lava Golem's Growth.

As far as my testing goes, Dive is strong, especially in the upgraded environment, but it does not create any overpowered deck, and even with the cost of Shard of Readiness, you're probably better off just replacing them with Towers or using Shard of Readiness on a Nymph. Their vulnerability makes them horrible targets for Shards of Readiness, even if you get an efficient attack to cost ratio such as that of the Minor Phoenix.

Diving is one of the few niches Air has and to rewrite it would be to strip away one of the few strong points it currently has.

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Offline EssenceTopic starter

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222373#msg222373
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 10:15:54 pm »
You do realize that none of what you described would be changed by my proposal, right, Hyroen?  The only things that would change are the interactions between multiple uses of Dive in a single turn -- in other words, between Dive+the old SoR and Dive+Sky Blitz.  Nothing you mentioned would change at all.
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Offline Hyroen

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222381#msg222381
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 10:27:40 pm »
You do know that it takes a lot of effort and a very focused deck to be able to use Dive twice right? Not to mention that it could easily be countered and very expensive.

Come up with a monstrously evil deck that you can come up with now using the points you consider too strong and we'll compare it to other decks.

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Offline EssenceTopic starter

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222420#msg222420
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 11:02:47 pm »
You're missing the key bit of info here, Hy.  Back when SoR allowed you to use a creature's skill right away, people built hideous Wyrm decks that relied on casting multiple SoRs on Wyrm in one turn in order to Dive 4-5 times in a single turn, and then they PUed that 80 ATK critter 3-4 times and killed FGs -- with RUSH DECKS.

That's why SoR got nerfed, and it's also why Sky Blitz has to drain all your quanta -- because doubling and then doubling and then doubling again is BAD for basically ANY game.  If you change Dive to be additive, you avoid the entire issue, which frees you up to do other cool things like SoR the way it was MEANT to be, and Sky Blitz that can be used more than once in a turn.

It's actually an UPGRADE to :air , my proposal is.
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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222430#msg222430
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 11:17:14 pm »
Full implies all, which seems to imply current. Base might be a better word to use.

Offline EssenceTopic starter

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222432#msg222432
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 11:17:50 pm »
Don't look at me. I'm just using the terms as Zanz wrote them in the popup info box.
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Offline Hyroen

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222434#msg222434
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 11:18:51 pm »
It sounds like what you want is for Shard of Readiness to simply be changed to the way it was before.

I still haven't seen the overpowered deck.
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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222436#msg222436
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 11:20:05 pm »
Hyroen:

Play wyrm.
Dive it:  10 damage.
Play SoR.  Dive it again: 20 damage.
Play SoR.  Dive it again: 40 damage.
Twin it: 80 Damage.
Dive the twin:  OTK.

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222440#msg222440
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 11:22:14 pm »
Don't look at me. I'm just using the terms as Zanz wrote them in the popup info box.
Isn't Zanz English? With how poorly he words a lot of game mechanics you'd think English is his third language.

I don't think having a combo deck would be bad for the game.

Offline Hyroen

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Re: Rewrite Dive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg222445#msg222445
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 11:25:18 pm »
Gl1tch, scenario ≠ deck.

A deck implies probability, and examining the chances for you to pull off miraculous combos, and at what point in the match.

Aside, the SoR that you present is not the one that we use anymore, so your post was not  a deck, and if you posted that deck, it wouldn't be one that functions the way you wrote.
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