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Messages - collimatrix (79)

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1
General Discussion / Re: Crusaders are stronger than I had thought
« on: March 12, 2011, 11:32:25 am »
I very nearly had a nasty surprise up against Lionheart playing ROL/hope when I pulled my lobo.

I had that sudden sinking feeling when I realized that if he quinted a crusader before I could mind-wipe it, he'd be able to endow and lobo away all my shielding.

Crusaders, I've decided, are a very good way to make your opponent circumspect about playing weapons.

2
Religion / Re: This just in: Evangelicals Hate Jesus!
« on: March 12, 2011, 11:28:49 am »
Well and gallantly argued Essence.  I would only respond that unless you're some sort of Pelagian heretic, the guy threatening all the destruction and whatnot is somehow sorta kinda supposed to be the same person as Jesus.  I would also add that Matthew 19:25-26 show a rather more conciliatory view towards the rich.

To argue that Christ's ministry was more or less congruent with the modern US conservative movement is probably possible on some abstract theological grounds, but not on a historical one.  There were plenty of utopians, pacifists and socialists going back to the 1800s and they were all extremely religious.  The emergence of a secular Left is a comparatively recent development.

3
Gravity / Re: Titan | Titan
« on: March 11, 2011, 11:09:08 pm »
oooh my gaaawd, this is nuts with acceleration.

nuts.   :o

overpowered. imho.
I've been trying to make an acceleration/titan anti-FG deck, on the theory that once you have a flying quinted titan it's only a matter of time before you win.  Still tweaking it.

4
Off topic: Sorry, where does it say "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"? I agree with most of what you're saying, but I can't say I remember that line in Exodus anywhere...
You could just google it...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+22%3A18&version=KJV

5
Religion / Re: This just in: Evangelicals Hate Jesus!
« on: March 11, 2011, 08:40:26 pm »
I'm sure that the author of this piece feels quite clever and pleased with himself.  At any rate, I should hope he is happy with himself for himself because as a writer he is at best hackneyed and mediocre.

Perhaps it would help if he'd actually read the Bible with which he claims such unsullied familiarity.  Might help if he knew some actual evangelical Christians too.

Quote
Jesus unambiguously preached mercy and forgiveness. These are supposed to be cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of the death penalty, draconian sentencing, punitive punishment over rehabilitation, and the governmental use of torture.
Bull.

Mark 6:11

Quote
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mind you that's a New Testament gospel that's directly quoting Jesus.

Acts 3:23

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And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Anyone who says the New Testament is all about tolerance and forgiveness is a liar, lunatic or illiterate.  There, how's that for a Lewis Trichotomy?

And of course, it'd just be lovely if the world were that clear cut.  It's not, as I'm sure the evangelicals at Christianity Today  (http://"http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/february/23.32.html")would object if only Phil Zuckerman could hear them over the drowning buzz of his unsufferable smugness.

Quote
And yet Evangelicals are the group of Americans most supportive of easy-access weaponry, little-to-no regulation of handgun and semi-automatic gun ownership, not to mention the violent military invasion of various countries around the world.
Oh ho ho!  Those wacky Southern Baptist megachurch-going cousin-marrying rednecks!

Let's see what Jesus had to say about weaponry:

Luke 22:36

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Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Huh.  Could it be that the characterization of Jesus as a hippie is in fact a filthy self-serving lie propagated by filthy self-serving hippies?

Nah, couldn't be.  Everyone knows that evangelicals are silent about war (http://"http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301436.html") and that Christopher Hitchens, an outspoken proponent of the war is also a well known Christian.

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Jesus was very clear that the pursuit of wealth was inimical to the Kingdom of God, that the rich are to be condemned, and that to be a follower of Him means to give one's money to the poor. And yet Evangelicals are the most supportive of corporate greed and capitalistic excess, and they are the most opposed to institutional help for the nation's poor -- especially poor children. They hate anything that smacks of "socialism," even though that is essentially what their Savior preached.
No, you illiterate dunce, Jesus preached charity.  Moses Maimonides clarified the Jewish view on charity; that which is given involuntarily is the lowest form of charity.  New Testament views are roughly in line; 2 Corinthians 8:12-14

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For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
(Emphasis added)

Oh, and when you look at charity through that lens?  Turns out that believers do give more. (http://"http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577")

The New Testament is extremely ambivalent towards worldly powers, saying that they are not necessarily good, but that they nonetheless exist due to divine providence, and that the faithful should submit to them.  To construe the New Testament as a guidebook for those who have actually become worldly powers takes a bit of doing.  Nietzsche was right; it was very much a slave morality book.

I won't bother with the rest of the article except to say that his history is hopelessly off and warped.  He's trying to pitch it as a story of die-hard (Republican) evangelicals opposing moderate and secular Democrats.  I would love to see how this tool explains the "Solid South's" often overtly religious support of the then pro-segregation Democratic Party, Federal interference in anti-war churches under pro-intervention Prebyterian Woodrow Wilson, and the remarkably progressive foreign policy under Southern Baptist Jimmy Carter.

This is your brain on politics.

6
Religion / Re: What Religion Are You Interested In?
« on: March 11, 2011, 07:48:35 pm »
im interesting with asian religions(except Abrahamism, i think that what its called, btw abrahamism is judaism christianity and islam) and ancient religions, like Zaroatism and Arianism(the religion with Arian priest)
Err, hate to burst your bubble but Arianism was an Abrahamic religion.

7
*See?  I get get away with BS qualifications too.
Just because you would prefer to assign qualities to ideologies based on practicioners of those ideologies doesn't mean that doing so is correct. Any nuanced view of politics would maintain that qualifications in these circumstances are entirely appropriate. Nietzsche was no more responsible for the Nazis than Marx was responsible for what Stalin did, or that the prophet Mohammed was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

So I'm not really sure what your point was, aside from a deliberate conflation of fascism with Nietzschean ideology. It seems like you're railing against something I didn't say.
Apologists of all stripes love to claim that any horrific real-world implementation of their pet ideas was because it was somehow perverted or otherwise compromised.  Communist apologists in particular are extremely fond of this particular example of the Scotsman Fallacy (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman") because it gives them a chance to bloviate about the wonders of their particular brand of communism.  If there's anything communists are good at, it's endless bloviation.

As I said in the second post in this thread, and as most of the responses have shown, attributing violence to any particular ideology is a shaky exercise.  The Old Testament specifies in Exodus that "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," and yet somehow modern Jews are able to rationalize this particular injunction from G-d away and have not been particularly enthusiastic about witch burning of late.  Even people with a religion that explicitly encourages specific forms of violence are somehow able to ignore that when it doesn't seem worthwhile.  Meanwhile, Christians in Nigeria are lopping off the hands and feet of children they think are witches.

So, to answer the thread's question succinctly, people from different religions fight against each other because people fight against each other, and sometimes the warring factions happen to belong to different religions.

8
Cause they all think they're right and think everyone else is wrong, and it's so important to them that they can't just sit with people thinking otherwise.

It's really difficult to sit there knowing you're right and everyone else is wrong, even though they think otherwise.

Your automatic reaction is to try and correct them, because you know 100% for certain that they are WRONG.

Now make every religious person in the world think like that and that's where the fighting begins.
Yes, whenever people hold mutually incompatible views of the universe violence is just around the corner.

I remember well the fights that broke out between supporters of phlogiston theory and those who supported chemical theory.  The fighting dragged on for years and there were many atrocities on both sides.

I shed a single, manly tear every time I see an economic discussion panel on CNN because within minutes there will be rioting in the streets and shootouts between the Chicago School supply-siders and Keynesian interventionalists.

The worst though, is the endless struggle between the people who see a vase and the people who see two women talking to each other.

If only people had a little more flexibility in their outlook on the world, I'm sure there would be less pointless fighting!

9
If deaths attributable to ideological motives invalidate a religion then all the world's religions and especially atheism are bankrupt.
Who has died "in the name of atheism"? Plenty of people may have been killed by atheist leaders in the name of atheist philosophies, but not in the name of atheism itself. That's like saying that someone has died "in the name of theism," which would be just as false. People die for specific religions or philosophies, not theism or atheism.
This is all semantic hair-splitting special pleading, and moreover it's historically inaccurate.  Look up the French Revolution's Cult of Reason, in the service of which people most definitely were executed.

Even if you were correct about people never having been killed in the name of some vague ideological ideal, and may I take the time to remind you that you are in fact completely wrong about that, what of it?  State atheism as practiced by the USSR under Joseph Stalin is a subset of atheism, and it is perfectly convenient and reasonable shorthand to just call it atheism if the issue being contended is death by religion (see initial post in thread).  Everyone else in this thread seems entirely happy to refer to Muslims as a homogeneous lump at most differentiated by "mainstream" and "radical" varieties, why should atheists need to be more finely divided?

10
The only state-supported atheistic ideology that has ever been used to justify murder on religious grounds was anti-theistic Marxism as practiced* by totalitarian dictators in the USSR, China and a few other communist countries. I suspect that the people in power in those states would (and in fact did) purge political opposition on whatever grounds they could get away with. It's sort of like claiming that communism was responsible for those same murders, which is equally stupid.

*I would use the word "distorted" here, but that's a more lengthy discussion in and of itself.
The only state-supported Nietzschean ideology that has ever been used to justify the liquidation of the elderly, mentally infirm, Gypsies, homosexuals, Jews, Communists, and Slavs was the religiously ambiguous Nazism as practiced* by the NSDAP and Fascist party in Italy.  I suspect that the people in power in those states would (and in fact did) purge political opposition on whatever grounds they could get away with.  It's sort of like claiming that fascism was responsible for those same murders, which is equally stupid.

*See?  I get get away with BS qualifications too.

Meanwhile, most everyone else seems comfortable with the notion that "religious violence" as a qualitatively distinct category of violence is a suspect idea.

11
because of all the deaths that have been a consequence of their religious views.
And?  So what?  Are you claiming that "mainstream" Muslims (as if a mainstream could be identified in so diverse a field) have clean hands?  Look up how Nasser treated Sayyid Qutb; indeed, look at the very foundations of Islam.  They didn't go from a local tradition to having heads bowing towards Mecca across the entire Old World in three centuries by holding hands and singing Kumbayah.

If deaths attributable to ideological motives invalidate a religion then all the world's religions and especially atheism are bankrupt.

12
Im willing to bet many muslims agree that the "extremists" are not true followers of their religion either, and are just perverting it to progress their own self interest.
I'm willing to bet that most Muslims don't believe most other Muslims are true believers.  Same as most Christians, actually.

Funny you should mention it though, Wahhabists pride themselves on practicing a more pure form of the religion; unshackled by years of interpretation, theological drift and general perversion than do other Muslims.  Who are you to say they're the ones who've got it wrong?

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