Guest posts by SickPillow

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 19, 2010, 10:29:26 pm »

Oh it'll do awesomely. BTW, I'm assuming you're vsing vNG (my deck) with the rest now?

on a side note, I expect DEMA to be just like v2. Those 2 explosions, while looking mighty wimpy, make a huge difference. I've been t50ing with DEMA for about 50 wins now, permafrost spells trouble with a capital T, that 1 Aether deck (stupid hacker...) destroys it every time, and on a bad hand (seemingly more often than vNG, probably biased ), the timebows get their stall up too fast with no way of stopping it. Also, MP's have saved me in a lot more matches than I care to admit. They just don't die

Although, 55 score is a nice plus when vsing test decks or biting farms

yup, your deck is now king, so any challengers go up against your deck now.

oh yea, the hacker deck is the one that gave shrieker deck multiple losses in the last matchup   
it is a quite annoying deck; terrible for rushes.

and i wanted to answer the other question you asked before about why shrieker is still being listed as #1 in my "subjective listing"...  Well its because i don't have enough data on your deck yet.  I know how good the shrieker deck is since i've played a million games with it.  Your deck is already the king deck, and if it wins some more matchups then i might be more convinced that it should be at the top spot.  So basically, if it keeps doing awesome and puts up nice win percentages, then i will move it into the #1 spot.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 19, 2010, 09:25:24 pm »

I have a pretty boss deck for you to test.  DEMA: Destroy 'EM All! V2.1 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12700.0.html) is basicly an uber fast EMing version or no land stompy that completely dominates against AI3.  Napalm and I have quite a bit of success against T50 with it, so its work a look by you.  I realize they are nonfactors atm, but when you test it keep track of the EM's, score ad electrum.  I'm curious how well this does as an EM deck versus T50.

Code: [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 77g 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7tb 7tb 809 809 809 809 809 809

i tried this deck out a bit..  it does seem pretty awesome   
can't wait to see how it does.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 19, 2010, 06:38:14 pm »

I went bacj and checked the numbers, and based on your current system, V2 fire rush beat shrieker rush in game 3 by a nose.

Ahem... I went back and checked 

13.8273 for shrieker rush
14.1676 for lava rush.

I DECLARE THE WINNER TO BE FIRE!

A matchup between v2 and vNG is needed

actually i'm not sure that V2 would have won against shrieker.... since i would still have to do the adjustment for long games.  (by turning some wins into losses)
but for some reason i can't find that one spreadsheet so i can't give the adjusted numbers.

therefore... who knows who would have won   ???

As with my ttw study long games are part if the deal and you just deal with them in the stats.  A long win is always better than a quick loss, especially when testing a decks potential.  Showing long games reveals how the deck deals with adversity.  Some do well, others not so much.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with the need for "long game adjustment" or not.  hehe

Just as you say, long games reveal how a deck deals with adversity.  And just for that reason is why i do "long game adjustments" to find the final Win/TTW score, because i don't want a deck to penalized for winning a game instead of losing.
The deck doesn't gains anything by having won the game in lots of turns, which is stupid because that should really be a positive...  but at least it is no longer being penalized for it.

I always still show the original win/loss record.  the adjustment only happens to get the final win/ttw score.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 19, 2010, 06:23:53 pm »

What is the next deck on your list?

i think i'm doing yours next..

right now the order is:
1. $$$man
2. Steel golem / Shrieker
3. DEMA

the shrieker one was supposed to be first, but i don't feel like doing another shrieker already.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 19, 2010, 06:11:30 pm »

I went bacj and checked the numbers, and based on your current system, V2 fire rush beat shrieker rush in game 3 by a nose.

Ahem... I went back and checked 

13.8273 for shrieker rush
14.1676 for lava rush.

I DECLARE THE WINNER TO BE FIRE!

A matchup between v2 and vNG is needed

actually i'm not sure that V2 would have won against shrieker.... since i would still have to do the adjustment for long games.  (by turning some wins into losses)
but for some reason i can't find that one spreadsheet so i can't give the adjusted numbers.

therefore... who knows who would have won   ???


*edit*
but jmdt's speedbow would have won, even after "Long Game Adjustments".  with a score of 12.66 to 12.78

*edit*

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 18, 2010, 07:21:21 pm »

I've been watching this closely, and it's a very good study. An idea I had is might try reintroducing other decks you've used before in a couple months when the game environment changes, but it's only a suggestion

And OMG at shrieker rush losing

I have already thought about doing "rematches" for the decks that have done the best (those that are at the top of my "subjective listing")
For the rematches, i might play more games, and possibly use jmdt's software tool that lets you record the actual time used for each win.
I haven't been doing time-to-win studies because they are a bit more painful to execute. (ie i can't watch tv while playing  )

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 18, 2010, 07:11:57 pm »

Why aren't you counting EM?  Life Rush, for example, is better for farming that Shrieker Rush (farming not wins).  I expected that to be way up there why is it not?  Electrum is what most people farm for, that's what should be counted.

This has been debated a lot on this thread.

But the main point is this: 
Right now the point of the KOTH is to find the best speedgrinding deck, with the purpose of gaining the most Rares in the least amount of time.  The point is not to gain the most score or electrum directly from wins.
Therefore EM victories are only of secondary importance.
I made recent judging changes that make it so that Win% and TTW are the only stats that determine the winner.

Also, since rares are worth a lot of electrum, faster grinding may actually net more electrum overall than decks specializing in EM victories.  It is very hard to make an accurate comparison between the two.

Everything isn't set in stone.. but for now, this is how the winner is determined.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 18, 2010, 06:38:24 pm »

Wow the shrieker rush lost straight up .

Napalms deck is very good.  Its a hybrid of V2 and a Vreelys picking up the best traits of both.  Actually V2 was based on Napalms 1st version and Napalm has since updated it for speed based on advances from V2.

edit for sickpillow:

here is the link for Napalm's deck (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6960.0.html)

thx for the link.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 18, 2010, 06:27:06 pm »

Heh, kartis [Napalm] once again proves that he is the master of Lava Destroyer decks. Kartis sent me his deck [the one that pwned shrieker rush's ass] when I asked for his T50 farmer - I was a little skeptical at first, though. I want to know: how much did the Fire Pendulums help you, Sick? Did you ever want a Fire Tower instead?

I think having the 1 pendulum actually worked well.  I definitely felt the effect in some games where i could buff all my lava destros, and not just 1 of them.
I don't think it slows you down much, since you still get 1 fire right away, and 1 more as you pass a turn... the 2 quanta lets you play your phoenix next turn for the cremation.
and most fire quanta you get from cremation.

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Forum Archive / Re: KOTH (slowly finding the best T50 deck)

« on: September 18, 2010, 06:00:24 pm »

Fourteenth Matchup: (The Fall of the King)

For this matchup, there is the reigning champion:

Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush
The classic shrieker rush deck!  Fast and simple.  With the bestest, most overpowered creatures ever created by the zanzarinobeano.

Code: [Select]

6rk 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h
Then there is the challenger:

 Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush
This deck was put up for testing by Napalm Grenade.  It is a cremation based fire rush that is similar to the V2 Fire Rush.  However, this deck incorporates 2 explosion cards for permanent control.

Code: [Select]

5f2 5f2 6rl 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7f2 809 809 809 809

Results:

I played 100 games for each side, 200 total.  (No farm decks)

Stats!:
 Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush:
Win/Loss= 82/18, 82%
Turns to win (TTW) of 6.54

 Mono-Earth Shrieker Rush:
Win/Loss= 80/20, 80%
Turns to win (TTW) of 6.70


We finally have a new King.  Long live the king.

Shrieker Rush put up a pretty good performance.  It is not the best the deck has done, but an 80% win rate is nothing to complain about.


Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush worked very well.  Even with 2 explosion cards, this deck is usually still a very fast starter.  The deck is fast enough to still be able to win a good percentage vs pure rush decks. 
Two explosion cards may seem like a very small amount of permanent control, but actually it is right around the amount you want for T50.  You don't want to significantly slow your rush by adding tons of perm control, but you do want to be able to destroy 1 or 2 shields.  So having 2 explosion cards seems a very good mix.
While playing i usually kept the explosion card in my hand until a shield, or an eternity was played.  Against some dangerous rainbow decks I would sometimes use it early on an hourglass, but mostly they are for busting shields.

In this matchup, the T50 decks were somewhat favorable to Napalm's Fire Rush.  There was a deck with phase shields and immaterial dragons that was a real problem for the Shrieker rush.  Napalm's fire rush had a better chance vs this deck with the 2 explosion cards.   Also there were not many decks with lots of crowd control.. This is usually where Shrieker rush defeats Fire rushes.

Overall i'm not sure Napalm's fire rush is actually better than Shrieker rush...  but what i do know, is that it won this matchup.  This is the first time any deck has put up a better win% than shrieker, and so finally, the King has been dethroned. 


Scoring:
By the new rules found on page 9 of the thread, the winner is determined by the ratio of: Wins/(TTW)

For Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush: 82/6.54 = 12.54
For Mono Earth Shrieker: 80/6.70 = 11.94

With Adjustments for Overly Long Games: (6 wins were turned into losses)
For Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush: 79/6.23 = 12.68
For Mono Earth Shrieker: 77/6.31 = 12.20

Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush has the higher score and is therefore the winner!

 Winner is Napalm Grenade's Fire Rush

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Obliterator / Re: Oracle : Obliterator

« on: September 18, 2010, 02:20:36 pm »

the deck below probably work a lot better than whats in the original post

Code: [Select]

4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vd 4vd 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 621 621
i use a slightly upped version though so i might be wrong

edit: for the record this is what i used to EM him :-

Code: [Select]

4vd 4vd 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 7t4 7t4 7t4 7t4 7t4 7t4 7te 80h 80h

I just lost using the unupped version.  I didn't have enough quanta to use my cards fast enough.  I think maybe the unupped version should include more amethyst pillars.  I bet the upped version runs very well though.
could also be that i got unlucky...  i did only get to play the one game.

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General Discussion / Re: List of cards in Elements by alphabetical order

« on: September 17, 2010, 04:35:21 pm »

Why is Earthquake after Encant Artifact ?
This is not a real alphabetical order.

They are grouped alphabetically, but sorted by element.  I'm not sure what order the elements are put in, though.

The name of the topic however says "list of cards in alphabetical order"... and this isn't really true.