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Offline MyNameIsJoeyTopic starter

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Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278340#msg1278340
« on: August 01, 2018, 01:40:22 am »
Discord: We need to have some sort of formal discussion about this. So far I've seen comments from multiple people on both Discord and in random threads on the forums. I'll probably create a thread (General Discussion?) where we weigh the pros and cons. I don't think a vote should be taken and I don't think it is a Council decision. Ultimately it will be up to the Admins, but we want to hear everyone's opinions and have as much information about this as possible before making a decision.
I 100% agree with what UTAlan says in the above. I know UTAlan said he would post this thread but I don't know how busy he is and I would be more than glad to help. Why do you like Discord? Why do you hate it? Why do you love blab? What makes blab so obsolete? Tell us everything you think here.
I'll keep the table in the OP updated so that you don't need to read the whole thread.

Regarding the move to discord ,
ProsCons
Brought by :CommentBrought by :Comment
shockcannonThis means that a move to discord would definitely unify members of the current community a lot more, along with discord being a more up to date chatting service that undergoes constant development.shockcannon-it doesn't make a lot of sense to get rid of Blab if combining the two chats won't actually increase active community members that participate in the game.
-The PM system within the chat also allows you to see those chat lines in the same big box as opposed to discord, where individual PMs lead you to a separate page and you have to switch back and forth to see PMs and the general chat
-There's a link within the game that leads to Blab.
DoctorC-Not having ability to change nicknames, while proves to serve consistent character... ultimately backfires. Not sure about you lot, but we personally find ourselves "growing out" of certain names, feeling after a while that some names just don't suit or stick up anymore.
- Remind us again what's so easy about having to resort to HTML code/third party host combination for ANY media file? You can upload songs, documents, pictures (especially screenshots) directly to Discord without having a care in the world.
- As a sidenote, we do talk about EtG and oEtG. We wouldn't have made to entire channels dedicated for that sort of stuff otherwise. Speaking of that.
- Discord's got too many channels. This is just a daft point, imo. What would you rather see, several discussions clashing into each other? And not just their topics, but the tones as well. We'd wanna have a separate discussion congratulating some random bloke that just set his game record or something, from another discussion, mourning someone's dead pet, and have neither being interrupted by any potahtoes, thank you.
-ability to actually hear your friends' voice
- the tagging system. If blab message goes UP too far, there's about zero percent chance for the tagged person to read it, where as with discord tags are permanent, so even if you fall asleep, you will still see a notification after you wake up (which is a major plus for people like us, who miss all the fun)
-Bots have wee bit wider range of stuff thay can do
-Several chats that support various topics so it doesnt clash onto each othet
-Message search system isnt rudimentary
-Fingerlicking voice channels, that still ate a lot of fun
-Oh, and also thebfact that you can use discord for more than just EtG, provided you have an invite
-Also, just as a sidenote, we can customize our appearance right hete and now
-Ah, and the ability to delete and edit out your stupid mistakes or typos because you just cant be botjeted to wear hlasses sometimes
-Tldr discord is just way more versatile and allows more freedom and options to its users than the potato driven blab
AvesFeatures notwithstanding, Discord requires the creation of an account dedicated for that service.
Dawn_to_Dusk -If all people in Blab who talk about EtG move to Discord, then discussion in Discord will tend towards EtG as well
-Discord is also MUCH better at displaying news around the forum, similar to the benefit IRC has over blab. There is already an announcements channel for such.

In general, Discord has greater capabilities than Blab, due to bots and roles/permissions. And the functionality of channels is also MUCH better than changing chats in Blab, from regular to Tournaments, and back again
- It is worth noting that with TitanPad dying, Discord has become a service that many use to replace it. I've done so in Brawl, and I know others have for both Brawl and War.
-There's no point in merging the two chats no real benefits are brought from it
-It is possible to make a bot that, whenever you change your name, can add your forum name on the end. Disabling Nickname Changer, and instead having a command for /nick doing essentially the same thing. This is, of course, relating to account linking.
Example. I type in "/nick Fernando McBlisterfoot". My name then becomes "Fernando McBlisterfoot | dawn to dusk". The bot adds my forum name to the end of my proposed nickname.
Naii_the_Baf-Discord isn't really a too complicated service, but with all the rooms, bots, and whatnot, some people simply just can't keep up.
EstYou're less likely to go out of your way to speak in a chat that's exclusively for something and isn't exactly active, meanwhile the server being on Discord which you probably have on anyway is of easier access and in turn should get more people talking just because of that.TheOnlyRealBeef-Discord names do not match forum names.
-But when I look at both and see where the actual chats regarding elementsthefreakinggame occur, it is all blab
-The people already using Discord for something else are indubitably already on Discord, even if it were alongside blab. They need no convincing. The switch is exactly about those people not using it for anything else.
CleanOnion-Blab has some security issues
-Blab doesn't do pings anymore
- etg channel
- easy history search
KalinuialI tried discord for a short while and left. It was too hard to follow, lacked focus, and didn't have a "discuss the game" vibe
iancudorinmarianDiscord "features":
- annoying bots (especially Espithel)
- too many namechanges
- too many channels
- no EtG discussion whatsoever
- annoying PM system (Separate chat? Really?)

Blab features:
- easy to use
- colored text
- main chat and tournament room only (well, and moderator room, but who use that?)
- one namechange per person with admin approval
- only one bot, the almighty AveragePotato bringing important news
- great PM system
ARTHANASIOSI have used Discord for chat in the past and honestly I don't find anything great about it. Its interface sucks, its PM system sucks, though that's just my personal opinion
Manuelif we migrate today maybe in 6 months a new app/something come out of nowhere and discord will be outdated
Ginyublab is easier to follow on mobile and doesn't take up nearly as much data
- blab is more compact, as in you see much more of the chat without the need of scrolling
- PMs within the same tab
- very important: it is where many new players enter chat; seeing it dead makes them more likely to leave

BTW, I may change wording a bit to alleviate walls of texts. If I somehow changed the meaning of your comment please tell me and I will rectify.

Disclaimer : I may add stuff that I see in chat, but I will not go looking in chat to see if people didn't post here. Please post all your comments here.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 09:23:11 pm by ji412jo »
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Offline shockcannon

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278342#msg1278342
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 02:15:06 am »
So from what I see, definitely more people use discord or are at least regularly on discord. This means that a move to discord would definitely unify members of the current community a lot more, along with discord being a more up to date chatting service that undergoes constant development. However, I think there are a lot of downsides/lack of functionality/other concerns about Discord that should be thought about.

1.) Chatting with community members is a great way to make friends and talk about things on a daily basis. However, the core element that makes this unique from just chatting with strangers/friends online is that the community is built around Elements The Game. There's really not a lot of people (if no one) who use Discord exclusively and also still participate actively in ElementsTheGame related community content (tournaments, forum contests, etc.). Will joining the two chats increase the number of people involved in actual ElementsTheGame related content? I would guess probably but this is the biggest concern that needs to be considered in my opinion. Blab offers a lot of cool features (which I will list next) that are directly tied to the game that Discord does not, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to get rid of Blab if combining the two chats won't actually increase active community members that participate in the game.

2.) Blab offers features like being able to post deck code in chat and have it generate a deck image. You can also use commands such as "/draw e" to generate a random elements card. The PM system within the chat also allows you to see those chat lines in the same big box as opposed to discord, where individual PMs lead you to a separate page and you have to switch back and forth to see PMs and the general chat. Features like these and several others are useful in relation to the game and regarding my first point, it doesn't make sense to lose these features without gaining an influx of more active community members. (*I don't know how many of these features are actually available or could be available in Discord, so this point might not hold a lot of water)

3.) Dice rolling and colored text  :P

4.) There's a lot of links within the game and the forum that lead to Blab. I'm assuming this can be changed though.

I'm all for moving to Discord and completely getting rid of Blab but only if the issues I brought up in points 1 and 2 are considered. In the end, the reasons to combine chats would either be to A.) Have one more socially active chat as opposed to two slightly less active chats, allowing people to stay in touch more and make friends easier or B.) Increase active members participating in ElementsTheGame related content. If A is the goal, there's literally no reason not to move to Discord. If B is the goal, then we should be fairly optimistic that we will increase active members, because we would be losing features mentioned in point 2.
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Offline Aves

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278343#msg1278343
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 02:23:34 am »
Features notwithstanding, Discord requires the creation of an account dedicated for that service. For those of us who are already using it that's not a problem, but for those of us who don't it's an extra hoop to jump through for a product we're not particularly inclined to endorse.

If there was a way to integrate forum accounts with discord accounts I'd have less reservations about it. As it stands, Discord is currently its own thing, tangentially connected to the community on an outside platform. That can change, but at this stage it's hard to tell what it'd look like.
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Offline MyNameIsJoeyTopic starter

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278345#msg1278345
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 02:35:02 am »
To adress your point 2, shockcannon,

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure we can already do deck codes in discord chat, and that having a bot generate a random card the way it is done in blab could also be done in discord.
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Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278349#msg1278349
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 04:38:06 am »
There's no point in merging the two chats no real benefits are brought from it. If what we are looking for is to revive the community, then Discord doesn't help at all─it is independent from this community and in no way related more than those links we create, and even then, it really is just a secondary chat─ one chat is already enough. Like shockcannon says, Blab is already linked in many ways through the community and the game; it is our main chat. Yes, our Discord server is more active and on average has more users, but one really needs to be told by someone in Blab or forums that it even exists─ people will discover Blab first because they'll have to go through there in order to reach Discord. A lot of guests and newbies appear in Blab, too. Those experienced users who are here in Blab are the ones that really get the rookies to stay in the community, since most of them are looking for advice and a friendly atmosphere, which in Discord it becomes a problem of scarcity since we don't have a lot of newbies in there. There are also some people who simply don't like Discord─ I, for instance. In reality, simple things use to be the prettiest, and also the most attractive. Having a convoluted chat with tons of foreign functions doesn't help if it just scares people away. Discord isn't really a too complicated service, but with all the rooms, bots, and whatnot, some people simply just can't keep up.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 02:04:17 pm by Naii_the_Baf »
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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278352#msg1278352
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 05:21:33 am »
If there was a way to integrate forum accounts with discord accounts I'd have less reservations about it.
Discord names do not match forum names. That is enough for me to despise the hell out of it and boycott any and all forum events to be centralized there.

I see people mentioning Discord is more active, I see the OP mention admins following discussions when hearing mainly one side of the discussion: the one on Discord. Blab feels completely neglected by admins at this point. But when I look at both and see where the actual chats regarding elementsthefreakinggame occur, it is all blab. No question or discussion about it. All the good old people and elements veterans? Blab. Anything pvp? Blab. New people seeking advice or guidance about the game? Blab.

The last parts are largely through history and blab being the official chat, I am well aware, but do not dare claim it is currently more active in any sense that matters to me in any way. Even in sheer lines of text typed blab comes across as more active to me, with pokes, dice roll and other such nonsense neglected from both sides.

Perhaps with time all people currently against Discord, would learn to appreciate it a bit more after the change. However, forcing it onto people whom feel their thoughts on the matter have been completely neglected, will only lead to frustration.

Offline Kalinuial

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278353#msg1278353
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 05:46:58 am »
I tried discord for a short while and left. It was too hard to follow, lacked focus, and didn't have a "discuss the game" vibe. For blab, you have to have a reason to go there.  I'm not on all that much, but I do blab questions.  I often get answers .  Blab is sometimes dead. That's fine.  Constant messaging and interaction is generally not what we need more of in our lives. I don't see discord growing the community in either quantity or quality. 

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278354#msg1278354
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 08:11:32 am »
Full disclaimer, I use Discord more often than Blab, but I have both open at almost all times. I check discord more often though.

"They don't talk about elements" is a reason not to join the discord, sure, but it is not a reason to not unify the two. If all people in Blab who talk about EtG move to Discord, then discussion in Discord will tend towards EtG as well. Furthermore, I am 99% sure a bot is being made to link forum account to Discord account, said link can be used to sign up for tournaments using forum identity. Discord is also MUCH better at displaying news around the forum, similar to the benefit IRC has over blab. There is already an announcements channel for such.

In general, Discord has greater capabilities than Blab, due to bots and roles/permissions. And the functionality of channels is also MUCH better than changing chats in Blab, from regular to Tournaments, and back again. For those unaware of what I mean by Bot, it's essentially how AveragePotato works. Automated system, AP in particular sends a message when a new forum post is sent. They also work with commands. /roll is an example, but Discord bots flesh this out more. I won't go into specifics here, partially because I don't know the super technical stuff, but you get the picture.


Quote
Perhaps with time all people currently against Discord, would learn to appreciate it a bit more after the change. However, forcing it onto people whom feel their thoughts on the matter have been completely neglected, will only lead to frustration.

I briefed on it above, but I'll go into more detail here. What is optimal is for a gradual progression to occur. People slowly start coming to Discord, and eventually Blab gets phased out. And this somewhat happens, with Kalinual trying to join Discord, but leaving because of the lack of EtG discussion. This is the problem. The EtG-centric people who join Discord for a small amount of time, leave because of the lack of EtG discussion. A drastic change, moving all of Blab to Discord, even for a small amount of time, would be nice as a trial period. But unfortunately, that is essentially forcing people to join Discord. And I fear that by doing so, people wouldn't join the Discord out of protest, and ultimately nothing happens.


EDIT: Something else I'll say, I personally, and multiple others do the same, have more servers than just EtG. Other games that I am interested in, I have a Discord server for. It is a nice place to be able to hold multiple discussions with many different communities.
This is mainly a sidenote, as it doesn't impact those who would only use Discord for EtG discussion, but it's worth mentioning
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 08:20:07 am by dawn to dusk »

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278355#msg1278355
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 08:45:14 am »
Don’t switch to discord, you’ll lose a lot of members. Sure, people can use discord for talking and stuff but don’t even think about it replacing blab and doing all the elements related stuff there.
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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278356#msg1278356
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 09:50:19 am »
I prefer blab. We really don't need all the extra "features" Discord brings. I like having a simple chat.

Discord "features":
- annoying bots (especially Espithel)
- too many namechanges
- too many channels
- no EtG discussion whatsoever
- annoying PM system (Separate chat? Really?)

Blab features:
- easy to use
- colored text
- main chat and tournament room only (well, and moderator room, but who use that?)
- one namechange per person with admin approval
- only one bot, the almighty AveragePotato bringing important news
- official dice roll chat
- great PM system

Blab all the way.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 10:28:17 am by iancudorinmarian »

Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278357#msg1278357
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 10:59:07 am »
Discord names do not match forum names. That is enough for me to despise the hell out of it and boycott any and all forum events to be centralized there.

This ^
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Offline DoctorC

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Re: Chat - Blab versus Discord https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66215.msg1278358#msg1278358
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 01:16:19 pm »
Oh boy, where do we begin...

Nicknames. Not having ability to change nicknames, while proves to serve consistent character... ultimately backfires. Not sure about you lot, but we personally find ourselves "growing out" of certain names, feeling after a while that some names just don't suit or stick up anymore. It might be just us, but if you're really concerned about getting people confused, then talk with admins to implement rules that restrict name change in our particular server. Alternatively, you can just stick around to see all the shenanigans that cause the name change, but, evidently, it's too much to ask.

Blab is easy to use. Remind us again what's so easy about having to resort to HTML code/third party host combination for ANY media file? You can upload songs, documents, pictures (especially screenshots) directly to Discord without having a care in the world.

We don't talk about Elements. Well, you lot don't talk about non-Elemental stuff. Sure, we have a lot of random discussions that don't involve the game, but what do you expect for us to do if all of the people that actually care about the game are in blab? Not to mention that EtG as it is hadn't had anything interesting literally anything happen to it in years.
As a sidenote, we do talk about EtG and oEtG. We wouldn't have made to entire channels dedicated for that sort of stuff otherwise. Speaking of that.

Discord's got too many channels. This is just a daft point, imo. What would you rather see, several discussions clashing into each other? And not just their topics, but the tones as well. We'd wanna have a separate discussion congratulating some random bloke that just set his game record or something, from another discussion, mourning someone's dead pet, and have neither being interrupted by any potahtoes, thank you.

Dices and colored texts. We HAVE dices. It works EXACTLY the same as in blab. As for the colored texts, we feel it's fair to trade that for an ability to actually hear your friends' voice.

Blab is built specifically for EtG. The game is dead, as we've stated earlier, and even if it wasn't, our discord server is just as specific for EtG as Blab. It ultimately comes down to users whether to have EtG-related discussions or off-topic rambling about dawn_to_dusk dabbing or something like that, which we would have less if all the people who still wanna talk about EtG just migrated to Discord server.

Joining discord requires creating a separate account. Image-hosting service also requires you to create separate accounts. Forums require you to create separate accounts. Elements the FRICKING game requires you to create accounts. Do you know which one is easiest to create? That right, neither! All of these are a cakewalk to create. (If anything discord is the second easiest one, only after Elements itself)

The PM system. This is valid, it is quite annoying to jump between the two, but hey, at least if you get kicked out of the Discord server, you at least get to continue talking to your friends. It is important to address something kinda correlating, though - the tagging system. If blab message goes UP too far, there's about zero percent chance for the tagged person to read it, where as with discord tags are permanent, so even if you fall asleep, you will still see a notification after you wake up (which is a major plus for people like us, who miss all the fun). Now, the forums (not blab) has a thing that can fix that - the forum PM system, there's just a tiny problem with it: it requires you going into a separate chat. Oof, that's some irony.

Discord server is too hard to follow. Can confirm, it becomes very tedious to keep an eye on the newest discussions in Discord, and we personally can say that we don't bother to follow everything and everyone (especially during YEKT nighttime), but think about it this way: you have the option to follow or not to. With Blab, that option is non-existent, with all of the discussions being practically erased from existence after a few dozen messages, most of which, due to blab having only one general discussion chat, gets swept away way faster than the ones in discord, not to mention that quality of those are rubbish, nowadays consisting primarily of Potahto's messages and people rolling the dice (Both of which have separate channels in discord). People said Discord won't help EtG community grow in quantity or quality, we'd like to see them explain how Blab is gonna manage that.

Discord bots are annoying. You're gonna tell us that Potato isn't/wasn't? Especially during days of Mafia?

Basically, all of the issues that people are having with Discord server are either:
1) Even worse in blab, but no one bats an eye
2) Can be easily fixed by said people taking participation in the server
3) Or address things that people who know very little, if anything, about the platform, claim to be absent, while the opposite is, in fact, true

Tl; dr: Take off the rose-colored glasses, fellas. Just cuz you got attached to blab doesn't mean it's fair to completely neglect all of the good things that happen in there.
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