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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285073#msg285073
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2011, 12:39:24 am »
Fire is well off, why vote for them?

Offline ddevans96

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285164#msg285164
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2011, 02:53:30 am »
They are tied for the least amount of cards in the bazaar and haven't had a new card in 6 patches.
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Flayne

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285183#msg285183
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2011, 03:19:09 am »
 :fire and  :water certainly need new cards, atm most of :fire cards is creature control and high attack power
while  :water has one of the most amounts of dual-element sync cards such as chrysaora, ulitharid, pufferfish and steam machine. imo it needs something to support its own element.

Offline Monox D. I-Fly

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285190#msg285190
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2011, 03:27:37 am »
:water has one of the most amounts of dual-element sync cards such as chrysaora, ulitharid, pufferfish and steam machine. imo it needs something to support its own element.
I'm with you here. I'm a  :water user, and found that it's almost impossible to make such a mono-water deck since I have to use pendulum for those Chrysaor, Toadfish, Steamachine, and Mind Flayer.
My idealized elements cycle:
Water -> Fire -> Air -> Earth -> Lightning -> Metal -> Light -> Darkness -> Wood -> Water

Offline Kuroaitou

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285199#msg285199
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2011, 03:35:48 am »
Kuro's lists are interesting for sure but I can't say I agree. The strength listing is only true in 50%-required PvP, for example. Every element that is defensive before offensive (:fire and :entropy being the worst in this regard) is superior in PvAI.
Yellow part: yeah, I forgot to specify what I meant by 'elemental strengths'. ^^; I realize that against False Gods, for example, elements like Time, Aether, and Entropy (again... something about that element...) do tend to fair better based on quanta usage. For the most part though, with War and various other PvP events kicking into high gear, I chose to list the elements based on their strengths against other players, because that's what keeps most players active (unlike the hoarder crowd like me :P).

Elements is a remarkably balanced game. For at least HALF of the cards in every single element there is a decent high-level deck that players both enjoy using and actually do use that incorporates them. It's just not really possible to encapsulate the game balance correctly in such a listing: for example, Kuro has :life near the bottom in every category ... but it's probably the single most popular element nonetheless. It's far from "weak."
Blue part; I don't know if popularity should be a good example of overall elemental strength, but you're right on calling me out on Life being weak. The main thing I wanted to address is what I theoretically want to see in the game compared to what's currently occurring. Instead of using terms like 'Dominant' and 'Inferior', I probably should have labeled my charts like this:


Perception of Elemental Strength (creatures):
(Excellent) Tier 1  :fire :entropy :earth
(Great) Tier 2  :darkness :air
(Good) Tier 3  :gravity :time :death :light
(Fair) Tier 4  :water :life
(Poor) Tier 5 :aether

Preference of Elemental Strength (creatures):
(Excellent) Tier 1 :life
(Great) Tier 2  :darkness :air :fire :earth :entropy :death
(Good) Tier 3  :gravity :time :light :water :aether
(Fair) Tier 4
(Poor) Tier 5

...but anyway, I still stand by my vote for :aether and :fire - they both have the lowest card pools, and their overall strength can further be adjusted by radical card updates (See the :light patch for example with the Solar Shield/Luciferin buff).

EDIT: I realized I can't type icons in more than two places at once. Fail.  :-[

Offline Seiya

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285201#msg285201
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2011, 03:41:27 am »
Why would you want Earth to have stronger creatures than Fire?  Is it because you would want Fire to have powerful spells?  I disagree with that mindset.

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285262#msg285262
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2011, 05:59:55 am »
Yea!
Fire is obviously way more powerful!

Earth should go much more on Defence instead.

Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285292#msg285292
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2011, 07:03:54 am »
...but anyway, I still stand by my vote for :aether and :fire - they both have the lowest card pools, and their overall strength can further be adjusted by radical card updates (See the :light patch for example with the Solar Shield/Luciferin buff).
I agree with a lot of your points, and especially the above one. I consider those two elements plus :water the 3 most in need (I voted for :water and :aether and consider :fire third).

Offline nilsieboy

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285310#msg285310
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2011, 08:37:02 am »
water, we had no card for a long time and we need some new ones.
about fire, i don't think they need new cards atm if you look how many powerful cards they already have.
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Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285321#msg285321
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2011, 08:57:01 am »
water, we had no card for a long time and we need some new ones.
about fire, i don't think they need new cards atm if you look how many powerful cards they already have.
Fire needs a new weak card. :)

Water definitely needs one or two new strong cards.

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285373#msg285373
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2011, 12:19:10 pm »
ElementBazaarRaresTotalin 1.25|6|7CCPCBuffHeal
:fire13215+0YY(Y)N
:aether13215+2YNNN
:life14216+2NNYY
:air14216+2YNNN
:water14317+0YNNY
:time14317+2YNNN
:light14317+2NNYY
:entropy15217+1YYYY
:earth15217+1Y(Y)YY
:darkness15217+2YYYY
:gravity15217+3Y(Y)YY
:death16218+2YNNN
Above, I ordered by number of card in the bazaar, followed by number of rares, followed by number of additions in version 1.25, 1.26 and 1.27. 
:fire Obviously, fire has the lowest number of cards and hasn't received any card in the last 2 versions. Therefore itshould receive one. However, Fire is one of the most complete elements if you consider what it can achieve. I think that the card that fire should receive is more a card with personality than a very good card. I'd say a card in the same vein as  Schrödinger's cat or that has a good interaction with another element but which is weak in mono would be perfect.
:aether Aether is the next. Contrary to fire, aether has still some big weaknesses, among which the lack of permanent control. To avoid an accumulation of strong spell cards in aether, I'd give aether a medium strong permanent control either as a permanent or as a creature. Also, considering the higher number of creatures requiring a buff to be use fully (deathstalker, dune and warden), I'd go for a buffing card.
:air and :life Air and Life both received a card for each of the previous upgrades. I think they can skip on turn.
:water Water, together with fire, is the element that has receive the less attention in the last 2 upgrades. However, contrary to fire water still lacks of very strong cards. As for aether water still lacks PC.  I would also like to see water acquire more cards synergizing with flood. I like a lot the Dark Kraken Idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21004.0.html) and I think I could be a good starting point to give water a little boost. Finally, I think to enhance the interest of the mass for water a totally new mechanic (like mitosis, voodoo and dune are) would make wonders.

To summarize, I'd like to see a fun card for fire, some middle strong PC for aether and for water, a buff for aether and a new mechanic for water. I would also like to see more rare but that is another topic...

Offline Atico

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285454#msg285454
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2011, 03:52:00 pm »
@SnoWeb - You made a mistake in this chart, because Life, Time, Death and Air got only 1 new card, no 2 in last 2 updates ;) And Gravity got 2, not 3..

 

blarg: