Synergies and Semantics

[Taglio]

Hello everybody.
I don't know if this is the proper area to post this thoughts: either this or general discussion, but it's nearly equivalent considering the topic.

I wanted your impression about a definite lack of synergies between elements.
All this starts because of the complete boredom of facing ALWAYS the same kind of deck AND the aberrant disparities between different sinergies of elements.

I mean: try building a good darkness/earth deck to farm regularly gold or platinum. "Ooops", isn't it?
Semantically Earth is supposed to host Darkness quite nicely, just like and yet... the best possible sinergy barely wins some Silver Arena (if you found a better farming deck... let me know!)

also, why only fire and earth works wonders?
Why Gravity should fit THAT good with Water?

What I would like to know is if would it be the case to implement some more opportunities to have different elements sinergize netter, and with better I mean in a way that actually works, so that more decks could perform better and I can stop playing the same rainbow or swallow (or any damn shard based) deck to have any small opportunity to grind gold and plat.

I would like to see more variety, of course, but also a more thematically coherent sinergy system.
Earth and Time should work, ok, but not as well as they are now maybe!
Maybe Earth and Life, or Water and Life are more closely related by a semantic point of view..

I know this sound only like a meaningless rant (yes, I'm writing down more issues in the same thread), but I hope somebody out there could understand my point

thanks for following me (and not telling me I'm a madman )

Taglio

[Keolino]

I am for more synergies as well. But let me tell you something else.

There will always be only a few decks to farm gold and platin effectively. That's a simple rule that can't be changed.

To farm gold and platin with all their advantages, just like with false gods, you need strong cards against them. So if you want to be able to farm the big bosses with a lot more elements and/or duos, these elements and duos need strong cards. But the Arena decks will also profit from the new strong cards, so nothing will ever change.

And one more thing: If you hate facing always the same decks and playing always the same deck, check out the coming update 1.4. Tons of things will change, not with the arena, but with the other AIs. And Zanz already said somewhere, that we may get some new cards to play with.

[serprex]

I agree, though I feel you're noticing synergies between elements when there's only one legit synergy deck

Show me without Graboids, show me without SoPa Oty, show me without Discord Blackhole, show me without Lava Golem. But then it feels weird to not use the obvious, because it's hard to make an alternative duo that doesn't draw on the obvious without making a new synergy that overshadows the old

[eaglgenes101]

Show me ...  without Discord Blackhole ...

CP chargerdrive.

[Keolino]

I agree, though I feel you're noticing synergies between elements when there's only one legit synergy deck

Show me without Graboids, show me without SoPa Oty, show me without Discord Blackhole, show me without Lava Golem. But then it feels weird to not use the obvious, because it's hard to make an alternative duo that doesn't draw on the obvious without making a new synergy that overshadows the old

easy. heavy stalling with PC (deflags and earthquake)+Rage Potions for creature control + Stone dragons (for leftover rage potions, or against strong CC like thunderbolts, shockwaves, rain of fire or whatever.) Not a real synergy, but powerful enough to make it fun

since i don't have even one SoPa, this wouldn't work for me anyway. Just combine their powers, making it a heavy Ice stall (with permafrost shield and arctic squid) and add shieldbreaking cards from gravity. (Titan, Chargers) That aside, Frozen Armagio + Catapult might added to the fun. If you don't like that, you may make a Armagio Acceleration, and buying time with Ice stalling.

hmm... something was mentioned already so it's more difficult to find something else, but take gravity shield and maxwell daemons, and there won't be much creatures left which the opponent can use to hurt you. Use some Mutations to make some opponents creatures smaller, to make them edible for Otys. Otys + Chaospower might be helpful as well.

mabe the most difficult one... I would rely on heavy stalling, using reverse times, turtle shield(+protect artifact) basilisk bloods and eternity to smash them with ghost of the past and stone dragons. (still, some grabroids would fit just perfectly in that kind of deck.)

Anything I just mentioned, might prove some good results and fun in pvp, or in bronze if upped, but i don't think that it would be useful for more than that.

[Chapuz]

There are lots of synergies you seem to have not noticed, so first I will promote myself a bit and link you to HERE.

Of all that synergies we now both know, people tend to find and use the most powerful ones, or the ones hardest to counter. That ones use to be of public knowlede and most of the people will use those to submit into the arena if they can instead of a "funnier" deck.
I guess there are a couple of elements harder to synergize with, but that's matter of each individual card and not of "the elements" by themselves. Synergies are between cards, not elements.

[Taglio]

Hello Chapuz,
on one hand I strongly disagree (it's called elements, the game, not "cards, the game"!), on the other I see I mispelled my point. My fault, I try to spell it better:

I think there should be more CARD sinergies between some elements, so that more 'funnier' decks could be more competitive.
In short words I think that a more variable game will benefit the game itself, making it more funny and open to the fantasy of the players. Cards will result more balanced, as well as decks.
From this starting point, since it is called "elements" an emphasis on the sinergies between the cards of some couples of elements would be GREAT (water and gravity sinergize well now, but... why better than earth and life, for example?).
For me, at least

taglio

[Taglio]

Heeeeello.

here, This article from L5R of course talks about another card game.
it's just the philosophy behind that I think fits into this topic.

more bluntly: it explains something about what I think of the actual metagame - with better words than I could find.
spend 3 minutes, take a look and let me know what you think

http://www.l5r.com/2014/02/21/well-defended-enough/

thanks

Taglio

[MasN]

I agree, though I feel you're noticing synergies between elements when there's only one legit synergy deck

Show me without Graboids, show me without SoPa Oty, show me without Discord Blackhole, show me without Lava Golem. But then it feels weird to not use the obvious, because it's hard to make an alternative duo that doesn't draw on the obvious without making a new synergy that overshadows the old

easy. heavy stalling with PC (deflags and earthquake)+Rage Potions for creature control + Stone dragons (for leftover rage potions, or against strong CC like thunderbolts, shockwaves, rain of fire or whatever.) Not a real synergy, but powerful enough to make it fun

since i don't have even one SoPa, this wouldn't work for me anyway. Just combine their powers, making it a heavy Ice stall (with permafrost shield and arctic squid) and add shieldbreaking cards from gravity. (Titan, Chargers) That aside, Frozen Armagio + Catapult might added to the fun. If you don't like that, you may make a Armagio Acceleration, and buying time with Ice stalling.

hmm... something was mentioned already so it's more difficult to find something else, but take gravity shield and maxwell daemons, and there won't be much creatures left which the opponent can use to hurt you. Use some Mutations to make some opponents creatures smaller, to make them edible for Otys. Otys + Chaospower might be helpful as well.

mabe the most difficult one... I would rely on heavy stalling, using reverse times, turtle shield(+protect artifact) basilisk bloods and eternity to smash them with ghost of the past and stone dragons. (still, some grabroids would fit just perfectly in that kind of deck.)

Anything I just mentioned, might prove some good results and fun in pvp, or in bronze if upped, but i don't think that it would be useful for more than that.

  can also use accelepurify, but no one uses that.

Almost all  uses graboids, but i run denial while the others just use shrieker rush, and its possible to use a "shreikognition" style deck as well. Graboids are as earth as nova is rainbow. Whether or not this is bad design is your opinion.

[MasN]

Heeeeello.

here, This article from L5R of course talks about another card game.
it's just the philosophy behind that I think fits into this topic.

more bluntly: it explains something about what I think of the actual metagame - with better words than I could find.
spend 3 minutes, take a look and let me know what you think

http://www.l5r.com/2014/02/21/well-defended-enough/

thanks

Taglio

Well, a metagame with 1 strong deck does effectively limit the meta to 3 decks in RPS:
Strong deck, hard counter, and "normal deck"
The closest thing to this in EtG is monoair, or more specifically SoFre. When a card is cheaper than deflag, it might as well have immate for the sake of balancing.
So therotically the counter would be a sundial deck or storm deck, maybe the unposted firestall I made? I don't play CL but in practice I doubt that would be the case.
I once read an article on the "old" meta but we had a decent mix of 8 decks around at that time, which is pretty good. I don't know whether the new shards unbalance the meta to RPS, but SoFre is basically like dimshield with less counters.
(IMO, if card is like that, it should have a nerf, even if its not OP (and it might be OP) but I digress)

I don't play L5R, but i can read that the article says that theres 1 unbalanced deck that swings things into RPS or just big R (big R means that there is no counter so everyone uses 1 deck)
I don't think this applies to EtG, but I'll be intrested to hear what others say about it.

[Taglio]

one premise: I don't play L5R CCG neither (I'm just fallen for the RPG )

I brought this article because I play often against platinum, and I grew bored of battling always the same decks - and also being unable of building competitive decks apart from the usual 4 or 5 (you can find them in their rightful place: plat battling decks list, in this forum).

All the synergies I have not noted? Good for silver...
I thought that having more synergies between 'cards of different elements' (because, if I say "different elements" Chapuz disagrees ) could have helped my feeling.

Sure EtG doesn't have only 1 uber deck, but for sure there is not as much fantasy (and balance) as I think there could be...
Thanks for tuning in

Taglio

[Keolino]

All the synergies I have not noted? Good for silver...
I thought that having more synergies between 'cards of different elements' (because, if I say "different elements" Chapuz disagrees ) could have helped my feeling.

That's why I play Silver and AI4 more often when playing for fun, even if I have "all the good decks" for gold/platin and false gods.