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Offline Tirear

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169356#msg1169356
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2014, 12:10:51 am »
Third: If I understand the concept of rare-farming in other games, it is impossible in Elements because you cannot pick your matchup ... so what's the deal, yo?
Two people who enter the same level of PvP at the same time have a high probability of facing each other. If not, leaving a match takes like 15 seconds and 30|50 :electrum.

Offline allembrande jackson

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169357#msg1169357
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2014, 12:11:47 am »
That sounds rather against the spirit of the game.
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169394#msg1169394
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2014, 05:55:52 am »
It is. And talking about farming is, again, against the forums rules.
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Offline FreyzIngardt

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169397#msg1169397
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2014, 07:04:57 am »
I have to say I actually rather agree with the original intent of the topic. Rare weapons are absurdly hard to get. In 91 won games, some against the Bronze Arena and some not, I've only ever gotten one rare weapon aside from my Quest prize--An "Owl's Eye". And I don't even use the Air element.

At the very least there should be some kind of system where you can trade a rare weapon card and some Electrum in order to get a different rare weapon. Whether randomized or otherwise, it'd at least improve the odds of us getting a rare weapon we actually -need- as newbies.

Offline flyingcat

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169426#msg1169426
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2014, 12:08:01 pm »
STEP 1: Go to Bronze with a decent farmer
STEP 2: Win 5 games in a row
STEP 3: Spin the slots intelligently
STEP 4: Rare card
I really don't see what people are complaining about. I have at least 4 of every rare from farming Bronze every day for half and hour.
The important thing about a low probability is that it's not zero
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Offline allembrande jackson

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169503#msg1169503
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2014, 01:47:24 am »
STEP 1: Go to Bronze with a decent farmer
STEP 2: Win 5 games in a row
STEP 3: Spin the slots intelligently
STEP 4: Rare card
I really don't see what people are complaining about. I have at least 4 of every rare from farming Bronze every day for half and hour.

You're missing "step 0", where you put a horseshoe up your bottom.  I spin intelligently, and I have only ever won one weapon.  Spinning rewards is ultimately imbalanced, as, on average, the average player receives the average reward ... there will always be outliers in a probabilistic system.  Us unlucky ones dislike the system.  In any probability based system, some people will have worse luck, so they will find the system unfair (which it is, with respect to them).

Just look at whatever goofball was bragging about having twelve of every weapon earlier: they clearly have no idea that they are simply lucky...
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Offline flyingcat

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169509#msg1169509
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2014, 02:11:55 am »
Stats show that you have 73% chance of winning a rare if you spin right. That's not luck.
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Offline allembrande jackson

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169520#msg1169520
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2014, 03:39:54 am »
I apologize if I am being [insert synonym for insensitive here]:

Statistics do not apply to specific individuals or situations.  On any given day, there may be an X% chance of rain; when it actually is raining, though, there is a 100% fact of rain.

If you truly believe that statistics are relevant to all individuals, then is it the case that all brand new players have 73% of a rare on day one?  No, of course not!  Percentages only apply to populations and series.

Some of us are unlucky and, though we win plenty of rares, they are not the ones we want.  I have almost a dozen shards which I never use.  There is less than a 1:666 666 chance of being born with Microcephaly; so for every 666 665 people who 100% do not have it, one 100% does.

Arguing percentages is useless when you are speaking to a person (as opposed to describing a group).
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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169522#msg1169522
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2014, 04:06:17 am »
The difference is that you as an individual have more than one special spin you'll get in your lifetime, whereas the individual with a medical condition won't get a new birth.

If you grind more on Bronze, you'll get enough special spins for the law of large numbers to bend your way.  Or, if you prefer, you can grind AI3 until you can make an unupped, rareless silver grinder, such as regen2k9's monodark, and use it to get your rares on silver and bronze.  It does feel kinda slow at first, but once you start getting them it's not so bad.
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Offline allembrande jackson

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169524#msg1169524
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2014, 04:14:33 am »
You are right: if I play many times, I have many chances - it still does not change the fact that in any probability system there are some statistically few 'outliers' who achieve close to zero success time after time.

The net who began this thread, as well as I, have really poor luck, and poor luck after more than a year of playing is discouraging.

Do the math: some people can lose indefinitely :(
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169527#msg1169527
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2014, 04:52:10 am »
If you have incredibly bad luck, then sorry, you have incredibly bad luck.
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Offline FreyzIngardt

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Re: Rare weapons are too hard to acquire... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56836.msg1169530#msg1169530
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2014, 05:10:13 am »
I finally got my first Arena spin through some seriously hardcore luck (I ended up with -one- pillar out of the twelve in my thirty-card deck on starting draw, when going against a Quanta Denial arena deck. That's bogus).

I got a shard, without a chance to respin any slots. I honestly would rather have gotten a weapon, because I can get Shards through donating if I'm hard-up enough for them.

From what I've heard before from other users, the Special Spin is particularly partial to Shards rather than weapons. I know that myself and TC are not the only people seeing this. Why can't anyone recognize that the system is borked? Rare weapons are practically mandatory in a lot of God-farmers and even Arena-farmers, yet they're hands-down the hardest cards to obtain aside from Nymphs and Marks. You can get Shards with a high rate of success in Special Spin and from any Arena deck that has them, and even if you can't seem to get them legitimately you can donate to buy the upgraded versions (which you can also sell at the store for a hefty penny, allowing you to upgrade cards for the sale costs if you're hard-up enough for electrum).

Meanwhile, Special Spin is the only supposed "reliable" way to get weapons(It's not--whether or not you succeed depends drastically on your starting draws and how they compare to your opponent's deck), yet Shards appear far more often on it. Are you honestly saying that Rare Weapons aren't hard to acquire? If you're saying it's easy to farm the Arena for Bronze, then what deck are you using for it? How many upgraded cards are in it? How many rare weapons? If you need rare weapons and upgraded cards to get more rare weapons and upgraded cards reliably, don't you see how that's an unstable equilibrium?

Rare weapons, at least the unupped versions, -need- to be more easily accessible for newbies. Not necessarily thrown into the shop or anything, but at least appear on more spins, or not practically require special spins if you're that much more likely to get Shards rather than Weapons from Special Spins.

 

blarg: