Nerf/Buff: Empathic Bond/Nightfall

[allembrande jackson]

I am just curious if anyone knows why Empathic bond is cumulative, and nightfall is not?

[Fippe94]

Balance. If Nightfall/Eclipse stacked, it would be really OP, Bond, not so much.

[allembrande jackson]

I thought that initially, but really, why?

EB adds points to life (yours) on a one for one basis, multiplied by the number of EBs

NF takes away a point of life (your opponent's, via damage) on a one for one bases, regardless of the number of NFs

Differences: with EB there is a good chance that while your life goes up, your opponents goes down, as you only gain EB from creatures (which usually do damage); with NF there is no guarantee that you gain anything whilst doing your damage, so your opponent way just out damage you.

Not really balanced, unless I am missing something.

Also, if you want to incorporate wither NF or EB, you would logically put multiples in your deck.  EBs are more useful if you draw a second or third, in this case, making NF fall behind in another way.

[serprex]

Nightfall makes creatures more resilient. Nightfall costs nearly half as much as EB. Damage is worth more than healing

If EB didn't stack, it should cost ~2. Conversely, recost Nightfall to 7 & maybe it's okay to stack

[allembrande jackson]

I see that nightfall has the double benefit of making creatures more resilient, but I don't follow that damage is more important than healing in this particular case. 

I agree that a negative heal and a negative miracle would be insane, but in this context (EB/NF) the value of making all your creatures provide healing without distracting from their abilities is pretty wild.  As a player I do not find a single NF has as large an effect on the game as a single EB (there are whole decks built around EB because it stacks)

Death to the Firefly Queen!

[OldTrees]

1) Offense is stronger than defense
2) 1x Nightfall is more efficient 1x Empathic Bond

I do not know of a reason why Empathic Bond must stack or why Nightfall can't stack.
I do know that if they were changed then they would need to be adjusted to rebalance.

Personally I am in favor of stacking cards.

[serprex]

Nightfall also gets to double dip when it comes to Deathstalkers & Vampires

EB is more versatile because it can be used more easily in swarms because it isn't limited to / . Can't use nightfall in FFQ/Hope. Nightfall is a big deal in vamptal

[seulintse]

pssssssssh, I want to use a deck with an eclipse, a few graveyards, and a couple schrodingers cats. either that, or an upgraded deck of vampires, vampire daggers (with air mark for flying weapons of course), and an eclipse... would be pretty powerful, don't you think?

[omegareaper7]

In short, nobody wants to see 12/10 2 drops. That would be ridiculously broken. Eclipse would need a massive price increase which would in turn make it useless. Also, vampires with 16 attack would be laughably good and shut out every other form of offense in the game.

[Shinki12345]

In short, nobody wants to see 12/10 2 drops. That would be ridiculously broken. Eclipse would need a massive price increase which would in turn make it useless. Also, vampires with 16 attack would be laughably good and shut out every other form of offense in the game.

Do you ever not speak in extremes?

I mean... Your right, but come on reaper, this isn't politics. =P

[Glitch]

At a certain point "more healing" stops being something you want.  There is no difference between 5 adrenastaves and 6, to take the example to the extreme.

However, "more damage" is pretty much always good.  And even if you don't want more damage, making the creature more durable is also nice.  You can always board wipe to negate the effects of a empathic bond stall, but once every creature on the board is getting +3/+3, the number of effective board wipes starts to dwindle, and then what, 3 deflags?

Empathic bond gets to stack because it isn't as good.  Healing for 1 life per creature is the exact same as each creature doing 1 additional damage, but nightfall also protects against board wipes, which are a huge threat to nightfall decks.

If Feral Bond gave all your creatures +0/+1, stacking it would be OP too.

[Espithel]

Empathic Bond and Nightfall are already incredibly powerful cards.

The problem is nothing supports them.

Put sghort, they're waiting to become broken, much like how psion broke fractal.