More Rares

[wizelsnarf]

Rare Cards are accessible through Top 50 farms or every 3 wins on Top 500 when it replaces Top 50.
Hence Rare Cards will be available just not for electrum.

Also the number of rare cards should be kept low compared to the total number of cards. This allows experimentation with the vast majority of card and with the rares after some time grinding.

Please try to understand that the game is meant for people with a wide range of grind/collecting obsession levels. Rares reward those that are more obsessed with the game. As long as rares are few, available and balanced then the maximum number of people are satisfied. Add in the trainer for those that like grinding even less than you and the game becomes available for a wide range of people.

I'm not against there being some rares, although they do make the game a bit of a Skinner-box. But adding more isn't something I'm particularly keen on.

Its not even that I dislike grinding, hell I do it a fair bit for score. Its that, when an idea hits me, I want to work on it, and if I don't have enough of a particular card, it becomes annoying to have to go grinding for it. Grinding is just, well, not something I'm in the mood to do when dreaming up decks, and as I said, the trainer just saps my creativity.

Also, would quanta not serve to reward the obsessed?

A few of the senior players already have all of the cards. Electrum is just useless play money to them that they can barely get rid of.



More importantly though, go to www.elementsthegame.com/trainer (http://ww.elementsthegame.com/trainer) and you can test any deck idea there.

[OldTrees]

Rare Cards are accessible through Top 50 farms or every 3 wins on Top 500 when it replaces Top 50.
Hence Rare Cards will be available just not for electrum.

Also the number of rare cards should be kept low compared to the total number of cards. This allows experimentation with the vast majority of card and with the rares after some time grinding.

Please try to understand that the game is meant for people with a wide range of grind/collecting obsession levels. Rares reward those that are more obsessed with the game. As long as rares are few, available and balanced then the maximum number of people are satisfied. Add in the trainer for those that like grinding even less than you and the game becomes available for a wide range of people.

I'm not against there being some rares, although they do make the game a bit of a Skinner-box. But adding more isn't something I'm particularly keen on.

Its not even that I dislike grinding, hell I do it a fair bit for score. Its that, when an idea hits me, I want to work on it, and if I don't have enough of a particular card, it becomes annoying to have to go grinding for it. Grinding is just, well, not something I'm in the mood to do when dreaming up decks, and as I said, the trainer just saps my creativity.

Also, would quanta electrum not serve to reward the obsessed?

Some should grow with time. The card pool grows with time. Some should be a fraction of the card pool.
  seems to not be a sufficient reward to them from my observation. However one of them would give a better answer.

[Emissary Laito]

A few of the senior players already have all of the cards. Electrum is just useless play money to them that they can barely get rid of.



More importantly though, go to www.elementsthegame.com/trainer (http://ww.elementsthegame.com/trainer) and you can test any deck idea there.

Well, surely they could just, y'know, not buy the new cards when they're released to the bazaar if they wanted to make it more fun for themselves?

It sounds like a case of making things tougher for the smaller-time players just so a few of the big-time players can have a few more hours of grindy fun.

I addressed the fact that I don't like the trainer in both my previous posts.

Some should grow with time. The card pool grows with time. Some should be a fraction of the card pool.
  seems to not be a sufficient reward to them from my observation. However one of them would give a better answer.

That just makes the difference between new players and old players even steeper though. Each new card that gets released means more time taken for new players to get electrum for 12 of them, and when a rare gets chucked in.. eh. Its not encouraging, quite frankly.
I'm not against new cards in general, but new rare cards makes the difficulty curve unnecessarily longer.

A week of keeping them rare is enough in my opinion.

[OldTrees]

Some should grow with time. The card pool grows with time. Some should be a fraction of the card pool.
  seems to not be a sufficient reward to them from my observation. However one of them would give a better answer.

That just makes the difference between new players and old players even steeper though. Each new card that gets released means more time taken for new players to get electrum for 12 of them, and when a rare gets chucked in.. eh. Its not encouraging, quite frankly.
I'm not against new cards in general, but new rare cards makes the difficulty curve unnecessarily longer.

A week of keeping them rare is enough in my opinion.

True it does make the difference between the newest and the eldest players larger but that is always the case for any skill based game. People from the first version have a greater time advantage over the new player that joined a minute ago than they did last week.
As long as the cards are balanced then the difference in card banks is not shown in pvp aptitude. Experience is an inescapable advantage that does grow larger with each minute and does impact pvp.
If your goal is collection then you need to be willing to take the time to collect. Rares are no problem to collectors although it does elongate the journey. (Journey is the part where you are playing the game) If you goal is playing the game then the time it takes to create a deck is the time necessary and that will not increase with the addition of new rares because rares already exist. So rare cards increase the value of the game for collectors and barely affect the value of the game for casual gamers that reflect on the existence of the rares.
Look at Rare cards as a tool for Zanz to improve the target audience. Quite frankly I assume that you are encouraged by Zanz's attempt to make the game valuable to more people.

[SnoWeb]

I agree with the more rare motto. However, It should be spread equally on all elements. Water (with Squid), Light (with Miracle) and Time (with Pharaoh) have already there share of Rares. The element having the highest number of cards is death which therefore should have one. I'll say Soulcatcher.

For the new cards:
- Time and Light have already a rare so GotP and Sanctuary should be free to go IMO.
- Tower shield is the better example of a common card.
- I agree with OT, acceleration is a long waited buff to gravity. It should stay common.
- Warden and Mitosis look like good candidates to me ...

[Daytripper]

For the sake of balance, every element should have a rare other than the nymph. That being said, the game is not really balanced. Death has 16 bazaar cards now and 1 nymph. Certainly it deserves no other card now.

I would prefer it, if the rare was not, like impossible to obtain. The squid and the pharaoh are decent rares. Neptune and Osiris pack them in bulk, so there is at least the chance to win them. I can say the same for Akebono/overdrive.

The vampire stiletto/dagger was always an absolutely useless rare. I think it is in ai3 now. Before that, getting it off an FG was near impossible. I won maybe 1 or 2 and I beat the death/dark gods often.

So I'm not against it, IF the opponent is packing a decent amount in the deck. Getting a warden of an ai5 is just murder..

[OldTrees]

I agree with the more rare motto. However, It should be spread equally on all elements. Water (with Squid), Light (with Miracle) and Time (with Pharaoh) have already there share of Rares. The element having the highest number of cards is death which therefore should have one. I'll say Soulcatcher.

For the new cards:
- Time and Light have already a rare so GotP and Sanctuary should be free to go IMO.
- Tower shield is the better example of a common card.
- I agree with OT, acceleration is a long waited buff to gravity. It should stay common.
- Warden and Mitosis look like good candidates to me ...

Whoa, rares should be added slowly and converting a common into a rare defeats the purpose of having a rare card for the collectors who can just buy 6 before the change.
I think making 1 new rare for 1.27 would be ideal and that rare should be Warden because it makes a better rare than Mitosis.

For the sake of balance, every element should have a rare other than the nymph. That being said, the game is not really balanced. Death has 16 bazaar cards now and 1 nymph. Certainly it deserves no other card now.

I would prefer it, if the rare was not, like impossible to obtain. The squid and the pharaoh are decent rares. Neptune and Osiris pack them in bulk, so there is at least the chance to win them. I can say the same for Akebono/overdrive.

The vampire stiletto/dagger was always an absolutely useless rare. I think it is in ai3 now. Before that, getting it off an FG was near impossible. I won maybe 1 or 2 and I beat the death/dark gods often.

So I'm not against it, IF the opponent is packing a decent amount in the deck. Getting a warden of an ai5 is just murder..

T500 will give a rare after 3 wins. Until then T50 is a great equalizer between rares due to our generous T50 members.

[Emissary Laito]

True it does make the difference between the newest and the eldest players larger but that is always the case for any skill based game. People from the first version have a greater time advantage over the new player that joined a minute ago than they did last week.
As long as the cards are balanced then the difference in card banks is not shown in pvp aptitude. Experience is an inescapable advantage that does grow larger with each minute and does impact pvp.

Reasonable, I acknowledge that. I was complaining about the gap being made unnecessarily wider.
Or trying to anyway. Not sure if I'm always coherent when I argue late at night.

If your goal is collection then you need to be willing to take the time to collect. Rares are no problem to collectors although it does elongate the journey. (Journey is the part where you are playing the game) If you goal is playing the game then the time it takes to create a deck is the time necessary and that will not increase with the addition of new rares because rares already exist. So rare cards increase the value of the game for collectors and barely affect the value of the game for casual gamers that reflect on the existence of the rares.

Someone who isn't a collector isn't necessarily a casual player though. I consider myself a player over a collector, but that doesn't mean I just want to build one deck and be done with it.

Look at Rare cards as a tool for Zanz to improve the target audience. Quite frankly I assume that you are encouraged by Zanz's attempt to make the game valuable to more people.

You mean the update? Yeah, I am. I like it in general.

Had a thought since last night. Now the obsessed players have had their hunting fun, if you want new rares, could some of the current rares become commons to lower the gap? They could be in alternate art or something if the collectors still wanted to keep their rewards.

[OldTrees]

Look at Rare cards as a tool for Zanz to improve the target audience. Quite frankly I assume that you are encouraged by Zanz's attempt to make the game valuable to more people.

You mean the update? Yeah, I am. I like it in general.

Had a thought since last night. Now the obsessed players have had their hunting fun, if you want new rares, could some of the current rares become commons to lower the gap? They could be in alternate art or something if the collectors still wanted to keep their rewards.

Last update 1.26 the new cards were rare for a short period of time. I think Zanz is planning the same for 1.27.
However this is a neat idea to expand upon like you have.

Perhaps something like:
Assuming 6 card updates on average
3/6 be rares
after 2 updates 1 of the 3 becomes common
after 4 updates the remaining 2 become common
Add to this a transition of the old rares into common

Adjust the numbers as appropriate

[Emissary Laito]

Last update 1.26 the new cards were rare for a short period of time. I think Zanz is planning the same for 1.27.
However this is a neat idea to expand upon like you have.

Perhaps something like:
Assuming 6 card updates on average
3/6 be rares
after 2 updates 1 of the 3 becomes common
after 4 updates the remaining 2 become common
Add to this a transition of the old rares into common

Adjust the numbers as appropriate

That actually sounds quite neat, although I'd make the first of the three become common after 1 update.

But it gives the obsessed their farming fun, while preventing the distance between the new and experienced players from getting too out of hand.

[HeartNotes]

It's almost impossible to win the new cards from AI5 ...  I don't mean showing up in the rolls, but once I was extremely excited to see Mitosis in the roll, it landed on all 3... but it didn't give me the card because one or more must have been upgraded. Ugh.

I have literally fought the AI5 over 100 times in the last three days and I haven't won a single new card. If it was my primary motivation, I would have already quit the game by now.

[Izzythemachine]

All new cards are now in the bazaar. So much for all the speculation.