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Offline Espithel

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149046#msg1149046
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2014, 02:39:56 pm »
Do people even use weapons at all for damage by itself?
I rarely see titans except in catapults,
Discords are for the scramble effect only,
Lobo is for the ability only,
Stilleto... Okay, fine, but I use that for the healing.
Staff? Pfft, no.
Trident's for the earthquake.
Eternity is definity for eternity locks as oppsed to the measly amount of damage.
Arsenic... Sure. Although poison.
Pulvy is used for PC.
Fahrenheit isn't the easiest thing to pull off, but go on.
Morning Glory... Sure.
Owl's eye... The CC.
And the other weapons I have rarely seen ever (Although my gold grinder's going to use one.)

Bit OT, but you get the point.

Offline serprex

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149047#msg1149047
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2014, 03:00:12 pm »
Long Sword

Offline iDaireTopic starter

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149062#msg1149062
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2014, 03:56:57 pm »
What I am saying is people would use Lobotomizer more if it had more damage.

Offline TheArchduke

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149085#msg1149085
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2014, 07:02:20 pm »
Do people even use weapons at all for damage by itself?
I rarely see titans except in catapults,
Discords are for the scramble effect only,
Lobo is for the ability only,
Stilleto... Okay, fine, but I use that for the healing.
Staff? Pfft, no.
Trident's for the earthquake.
Eternity is definity for eternity locks as oppsed to the measly amount of damage.
Arsenic... Sure. Although poison.
Pulvy is used for PC.
Fahrenheit isn't the easiest thing to pull off, but go on.
Morning Glory... Sure.
Owl's eye... The CC.
And the other weapons I have rarely seen ever (Although my gold grinder's going to use one.)

Bit OT, but you get the point.

Long Sword

@Frozengaia: I think your analysis is good, but by the end of it, I feel like you overcame your initial objection. Titan, Morning Glory, Stiletto, Fahrenheit, Eagle Eye, Arsenic, Long Sword, and Longbow are definitely about boosting damage to me. Lobo, Eternity, Pulverizer, Discord, and Trident are more about the special effects. I think maybe Stiletto and EE could probably fit into either category depending on deck and play style.

To put the conversation back on the tracks a little, since lobo is in the non-damage, effects group, I would say it and eternity are at the bottom of the pack in terms of power. Eternity is just a niche weapon (a great niche), and lobo appears only when it's the only option, I.e. In mono aether or majority aether decks. To me, lobo is the least powerful weapon in the game because it's skill is only worthwhile to protect phase shields by countering momentum, creature-based pc (mostly mutations that might produce steal or destroy or momentum) , poison, and anything else I'm forgetting that gets around phase shields.

Still, for its role in magnifying the over-power of phase shields, especially against AI, I'd say lobo is part of the problem in aether. The answer would not be to change anything about lobo, but to nerf Phase Shield instead.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:04:03 pm by TheArchduke »

Offline dragtom

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149086#msg1149086
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2014, 07:22:12 pm »
removing skills is a great effect, IMO.
it won't work great against rushes (or creatureless decks),
but against many other decks it'll do wonders.

remove that paradox, devour, growth, mitosis, venom, momentum, endow, deja vu, ...
most non-rush decks have those creatures,
and there are also a decent amount that rely on them.

not to mention you can lobo your own psions in case of a reflective shield.

it's of course situational (so are discord, EE, and eternity),
thus it's hard to say what'd be the optimal amount of attack.
be quick- time is quanta.

Offline iDaireTopic starter

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149104#msg1149104
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2014, 08:53:36 pm »
Spoiler for Quote:
Do people even use weapons at all for damage by itself?
I rarely see titans except in catapults,
Discords are for the scramble effect only,
Lobo is for the ability only,
Stilleto... Okay, fine, but I use that for the healing.
Staff? Pfft, no.
Trident's for the earthquake.
Eternity is definity for eternity locks as oppsed to the measly amount of damage.
Arsenic... Sure. Although poison.
Pulvy is used for PC.
Fahrenheit isn't the easiest thing to pull off, but go on.
Morning Glory... Sure.
Owl's eye... The CC.
And the other weapons I have rarely seen ever (Although my gold grinder's going to use one.)

Bit OT, but you get the point.

Long Sword

@Frozengaia: I think your analysis is good, but by the end of it, I feel like you overcame your initial objection. Titan, Morning Glory, Stiletto, Fahrenheit, Eagle Eye, Arsenic, Long Sword, and Longbow are definitely about boosting damage to me. Lobo, Eternity, Pulverizer, Discord, and Trident are more about the special effects. I think maybe Stiletto and EE could probably fit into either category depending on deck and play style.

To put the conversation back on the tracks a little, since lobo is in the non-damage, effects group, I would say it and eternity are at the bottom of the pack in terms of power. Eternity is just a niche weapon (a great niche), and lobo appears only when it's the only option, I.e. In mono aether or majority aether decks. To me, lobo is the least powerful weapon in the game because it's skill is only worthwhile to protect phase shields by countering momentum, creature-based pc (mostly mutations that might produce steal or destroy or momentum) , poison, and anything else I'm forgetting that gets around phase shields.

Still, for its role in magnifying the over-power of phase shields, especially against AI, I'd say lobo is part of the problem in aether. The answer would not be to change anything about lobo, but to nerf Phase Shield instead.
A Nerf to Phase Shield could be to lower the duration of phase shield to two turns.
Or you could add more creatures that could bypass phase shield. For example: Shield: Physical attacks can't reach you for three turns. Creatures without skills bypass this shield.
This would of course raise the power of mind flayer, ulitharid, lobotomizer, and electrocutor, though massively lowering the power of dimensional shield. The creatures with passive abilities such as Pest also go through. This would add more counters to dimensional shield.

Offline omegareaper7

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Re: General Things https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55156.msg1149487#msg1149487
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2014, 06:52:58 pm »
@thearchduke and dragtom: I wouldn't call eternity situational, at least not as much as lobo. If they don't have creatures, you can still use it for anti deck out. And if they do, it is a whole lot more lock down power. Not being able to draw is much worse, usually, then losing a creatures ability.
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