*Author

Offline PragmaticTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Pragmatic is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144426#msg1144426
« on: July 07, 2014, 09:06:08 pm »
What is a turn?
I honestly think this term has so much confusion around it's meaning that we need to clarify what it is.  The reason for this is because of cards like purify, adrenaline, icebolt, and sundial.  All of these cards are inconsistent with the term "turn" and a lot of broken gameplay results from this.

Some facts to consider:

A) Purifies heal the target 2 hp each turn
B) X delay lasts X turns. 
C) Adrenaline causes a creature to "attack multiple times per turn".
D) A creature can only poison the player 2 times per turn.
E) A sundial causes creatures to be "unable to attack for 1 turn".
F) Freeze delays the target for 3 turns.
G) Ice bolt can "freeze the target".
H) If I icebolt a player and it freezes the target (the player in this case) the player's weapon is frozen not the player.

However the following are also facts:
1) If I delay a creature that has adrenaline for 2 turns that creature will break free in 1 and may even do additional attacks.
2) If I sundial an adrenaline creature that create does not attack at all.
3) If I purify an adrenaline creature that creature heals each time it attacks.

People have told me in the chat that a adrenaline actually gives a creature multiple "creature turns" per "player turn".  If this were true then sundial means "player turns", icebolt should effect "player turns" and not the player's weapon, and you get the point.

A turn should simply mean "player turn" which consists of that player's draw phase, card placement/ability phase, attack phase, discard phase, and end phase.
A round should simply mean every two turns, which essentially means "until the beginning of your next turn".
Delay should simply mean cannot attack or use abilities for 1 round.  If a player is delayed that simply means they cannot attack with their weapon and cannot use their weapon's abilities. If people desire to change the wording for purity and poison to "each attack" then their effects shouldn't occur if they are delayed as the creature didn't attack.

Offline Afdarenty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1353
  • Country: gb
  • Reputation Power: 20
  • Afdarenty is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Afdarenty is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Afdarenty is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Afdarenty is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Kong name is MPots
  • Awards: 2016 - PvP World ChampionWar #11 - Sportsmanship Award11th Trials - Master of AirSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWar #10 - Sportsmanship AwardWar #10 Winner - Team AirWinner of Team PvP #710th Trials - Master of AirWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 1/2016 3rd PlaceSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #9 - Sportsmanship AwardWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of AirWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of Air2013 - PvP World ChampionChampionship League 1/2014 1st PlaceSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerThird Budosei of BudokanSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144428#msg1144428
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 09:21:44 pm »
If you change the words 'for X turns' into 'for X attacks' on delay/freeze/poison/purify cards then all your problems are solved  :)

As for Sundial/Adrenaline, Sundial stops all creatures from attacking for a turn. The number of times that creature would attack (and therefore adrenaline) is irrelevant, because that creature cannot attack.

Offline Espithel

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2705
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Espithel hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeGive us the video.Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeZanz Christmas Present Competition - Winner
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144429#msg1144429
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 09:26:41 pm »
Replacing turn with activation is a good way of looking at things.
The time it takes between the activations of a passive effect is a turn for that effect.
Adrenaline gives a creature more activations a turn, which gives it more turns for effects to activate.

All in all, adrenaline is the only confusing thing, so that's fine by me.
I don't think it needs a change. The broken gameplay only happens once, for newbs.

Offline Dm

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3928
  • Reputation Power: 56
  • Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144431#msg1144431
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 09:37:34 pm »
What is a turn?
I honestly think this term has so much confusion around it's meaning that we need to clarify what it is.  The reason for this is because of cards like purify, adrenaline, icebolt, and sundial.  All of these cards are inconsistent with the term "turn" and a lot of broken gameplay results from this.

I'd really like it if you didn't use "we" since you appear to be the only one confused over trivial things like that...

Offline PragmaticTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Pragmatic is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144432#msg1144432
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 09:39:53 pm »
Adrenaline gives a creature more activations a turn, which gives it more turns for effects to activate.

All in all, adrenaline is the only confusing thing, so that's fine by me.

If you use activation then adrenaline wouldn't allow the creature to attack multiple times.   Attacking occurs during the attack phase not during activation; activation happens after the drawing phase.  Also most abilities are used once per activation which would make adrenaline confusing.  Can they use their abilities multiple times a turn?

Offline Espithel

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2705
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Espithel hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeGive us the video.Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeZanz Christmas Present Competition - Winner
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144433#msg1144433
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 09:42:08 pm »
Activated abilities happen during the pre-attack phase, yes.

But, a passive ability has to activate, or trigger.
You have to trigger, or activate, an attack.

It's still an activation.

Very well, trigger.
Although, Dm is right, as... mweh, nevermind. Dm's right.

Offline PragmaticTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Pragmatic is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144434#msg1144434
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 09:43:30 pm »
What is a turn?
I honestly think this term has so much confusion around it's meaning that we need to clarify what it is.  The reason for this is because of cards like purify, adrenaline, icebolt, and sundial.  All of these cards are inconsistent with the term "turn" and a lot of broken gameplay results from this.

I'd really like it if you didn't use "we" since you appear to be the only one confused over trivial things like that...

"We" means the community and developers; if it didn't then I wouldn't be posting in the forums. 

There is nothing "trivial" about clarifying game terms and rules.

Offline Dm

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3928
  • Reputation Power: 56
  • Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144437#msg1144437
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 09:51:54 pm »
There's no need to clarify something that isn't obscure to the vast majority of the community anyway. Unless you meant that the community could clarify it for you, which is okay.

Now if you want to discuss with me the functionalities of Adrenaline plus Passive Effects such as devourer's stealing quanta or the gnome gemfinder producing earth or the poisoning of a scorpion.. that's interesting.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 09:53:34 pm by Dm1321 »

Offline Blacksmith

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2123
  • Country: se
  • Reputation Power: 30
  • Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Blacksmith is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • Happy to help!!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake11th Trials - Master of Earth10th Trials - Master of EarthWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner7th Trials - Master of EarthWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144603#msg1144603
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 03:36:46 pm »
What is a turn?
I honestly think this term has so much confusion around it's meaning that we need to clarify what it is.  The reason for this is because of cards like purify, adrenaline, icebolt, and sundial.  All of these cards are inconsistent with the term "turn" and a lot of broken gameplay results from this.

I'd really like it if you didn't use "we" since you appear to be the only one confused over trivial things like that...

"We" means the community and developers; if it didn't then I wouldn't be posting in the forums. 

There is nothing "trivial" about clarifying game terms and rules.
I have no idea why a simple "we" should matter. In fact clarifications are never bad when it comes to game mechanincs.
Purple Hillbilly reporting, ready for teamwork and shiny times. 

Offline Naesala

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3431
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 52
  • Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.Naesala brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144635#msg1144635
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 07:21:44 pm »
It's fairly reasonable to assume that if one person has this confusion, others might as well. The community might understand, but the community is where we come to discuss improvements that can help people including those not in the community.

There are lots of cards that are inconsistent, confusing, or don't behave as cards say they should. An ingame glossary would be nice.
Your favorite Hotyugh

Offline andretimpa

  • Master of Gravity
  • *
  • ******
  • Posts: 3812
  • Country: br
  • Reputation Power: 58
  • andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • OMG how did I get here I'm not good with computers
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 12th Birthday Cake14th Trials - Master of GravitySong of the Day Tourney Most Creative DeckSlice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeArt Competition - RedecoratingSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeArt Competition: MS Paint #9 WinnerArt Competition: League of the Battle Champion WinnerArt Competition: Foil ArtWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeArt Competition: Paint With Elements - The Elemental AvatarsSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeCompetition - A Challenge of Challenges1st Place WC Winner: October 20151st Place Weekly Challenge Winner: September 2015Weekly Design August 2015 - GoldWeekly Design July 2015 - SilverSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeForum Brawl #4 WinnerPaint with Elements Competition WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Clarify what Turn means https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54927.msg1144652#msg1144652
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 10:26:01 pm »
As you said, adrenaline gives extra creature turns.

Freeze (and delay) affecting the player affects the weapon (targetting a player with a frozen weapon with shockwave destroys the weapon, even if it is immaterial).

Yes, the wordings in a lot of cards is horrible and there are also grammar mistakes in them.

No, I don't think Zanz (the developper) actually cares about this.

There are even more things that are not in the cards descriptions http://elementscommunity.org/forum/tutorials/what-the-cards-don't-tell-you/
Every time a graboid evolves, an elemental gets his wings.
:gravity Guild (old), War 9 & 13 (gen) / :time Brawl 2 & 3, War 7 & 14 / :death War 8 & 12 / :fire Brawl 4 / :entropy Brawl 5 / :darkness War 10

 

blarg: Hyroen