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Offline shockcannonTopic starter

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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292107#msg1292107
« Reply #240 on: June 30, 2019, 03:32:01 am »
Updated Victory Screen above ^


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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292108#msg1292108
« Reply #241 on: June 30, 2019, 03:43:56 am »
As for everyone's words:

1.) Linkcat (cart)
2.) MasterWalks (cart)
3.) dawn to dusk (SHOCK)
4.) serprex (wheel)
5.) Submachine (cart)
6.) Naii_the_Baf (cart)
7.) Coffeeditto (wheel)
8.) CrockettRocket (wheel)
9.) moehrpi (wheel)
10.) ddevans96 (SHOCK)
11.) Captain Scibra (wheel)


1.) Coffeeditto - movement, square, amusement, inflate
2.) CrockettRocket - rock, me, mama, like
3.) moehrpi - game, throne, mother
4.) ddevans96 - outside, steps
5.) Captain Scibra - disc, moo
6.) Linkcat - Mario, pulchritude, xanthosis, Crenshaw
7.) MasterWalks - Skyrim, fart, wheel, vehicle
8.) dawn to dusk - tilt, strong, spoke, fortune
9.) serprex - heal, stones, pandemonium
10.) Submachine - Man, driver, road, diamond
11.) Naii_the_Baf - carry, walk, coal, remove


It is infuriating these are not in the same order.


Feedback: I think shocks should be able to PM throughout the game. Now that we have played a game, its easy to understand we were not vague enough with our words. Abilities would be cool but i dont think its necessary.
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292109#msg1292109
« Reply #242 on: June 30, 2019, 04:24:11 am »
This makes up for about 40% of my self-loathing regarding Mafia 71
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292110#msg1292110
« Reply #243 on: June 30, 2019, 04:58:31 am »
serprex?

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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292111#msg1292111
« Reply #244 on: June 30, 2019, 05:31:30 am »
So CR was the worst player. Both gave Dawn our word & totally confused me when he didn't agree on our most obvious member Scibra

Chaotic seems the correct play if you want to beat shocks with signal-to-noise ratio. ie if I talk about 10 random things, one of which is the right word, then my ally can talk about some things that overlap with me, including the correct word, & we can sort of become sure of each other while the man in the middle has to wonder whether we're sure about the other random things we're beginning to alias on each other

Noobs need to not panic, don't aggressively try confirm yourself. Also I tried telling y'all that we had enough information & should stop sending in more relevant words. Oh well, the point of this game is that everyone's a noob & can't play correctly. Annoying thing here is you can't just lynch bad players & play on

Anyways, figured out another winning strategy for town: first day, everyone sends in random words that start with the same letter as their word. Likely you'll know the shocks right away. If not, one team decides to try confirm amongst themselves, while the other team accepts their fate to be passed through the Otyugh. This way only one word is ever revealed. There may be better hash functions than "first letter" but basically the idea is "Come up with a hash function, send in collisions to that hash function, there should be some high collision rate"

By noobs creating a culture of hash function before the start of the game, they reveal less about their word & have an agreed upon pass-or-fail

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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292112#msg1292112
« Reply #245 on: June 30, 2019, 06:15:59 am »
serprex was worst player.
CR was bad after he explained himself but he was pressured into it.

I say serp was bad because of how he was the whole game. Loopholes and shockcannon trolls. It was annoying and pretty uncalled for.

Best player was either Linkcat or Naii; they said very little but still made themselves pretty town looking. Cant deny d2d the win but we played pretty dumb. Me especially. I would love to play another just so we can improve what we did poorly.

@shockcannon fun game. I did enjoy. Balance it and run it again, i bet more sign up. Personally, I think you should have Linkcat or another experienced host try to host this time instead of yourself hosting again. You didnt do bad or anything, but i think it could be done better.
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292115#msg1292115
« Reply #246 on: June 30, 2019, 08:27:15 am »
Personally, I had fun. If we all just sit back to submit bullshit words and one by one vote out everyone, we could have won, but then this would have been the most boring game I ever played.

Here are a few things we can improve on next time, myself included.

  • Your first word should refer to your received word, because that's something a Shock cannot do. All later words are barely relevant compared to the importance of the first word.

    Take Linkcat (and me) for example. He referenced Mario Kart, which was not obvious to anyone not knowing his word, but it was enough to confirm Linkcat for anyone who had cart. I tried to reference Cartman from South Park, hence the capitalization.
  • Don't submit first words that can be easily traced back to your original word. Luckily noone made this mistake in this game.
  • Your words should not make sense ONLY when read together, because then you lessen the importance of your first word. Mistake made by moehrpi and CrockettRocket.
  • Your first word should relate to your own word and NOT relate to a word that relates to your own word. The latter is something that Shocks will do and which Noobs should avoid. For example, circular relates to wheel and disc relates to circular. Notice the extra step between disc and wheel. Mistake made by Captain Scibra, Coffeeditto and MasterWalks.
  • When using references to pop-culture, make sure that everyone knows what you are referring to. Freaking "rock me mama like a wagon wheel" and whatever serprex tried to refer to. I never heard of those. Plus I also don't watch Game of Thrones and don't play Skyrim, but Game of Thrones and Skyrim are at least popular.
  • Don't use technical terms, website names or something that only a Google search gives results to. This is what one of the Shocks managed to do.

    tilt, strong, spoke, fortune

    Tilt wheel and tilt cart both exist, cartstrong.com is a website while strong wheel is also something Google gives results to. At spoke wheel and wheel of fortune, it is now clear that dawn realized that one of the words was wheel.
  • After you made the perfect first or second word, stop trying to convince the others to trust you and instead, join Linkcat's strategy of submitting bullshit instead. Mistake made by Submachine.
  • When submitting bullshit, don't make it too obvious that you are submitting bullshit. When Linkcat submitted Mario and essentially confirmed himself, all his later words were obviously unrelated, which allowed the Shocks to know that Mario has a really big importance and relation to one half of the words. What these bullshit words should be are consistent references to fake compound words. With my last word diamond, I tried to reference that my word is minecart, I was just too late to start that.


And some other comments on players.

1.) Coffeeditto - movement, square, amusement, inflate: Square as your second word is not only an "opposite" of circle, but even circle is just a reference to the shape of the wheel. Wheel > shape of wheel (round) > circle > opposite of circle. Try to avoid adding this many steps if your word is not a bullshit word. And if it's a bullshit word, just refer to a fake compound word.
2.) CrockettRocket - rock, me, mama, like: Your submitted word was essentially wagon wheel. I find it bad, because it has your word inside your submitted word.
3.) moehrpi - game, throne, mother: What was the reference here?
4.) ddevans96 - outside, steps
5.) Captain Scibra - disc, moo: Why moo?
6.) Linkcat - Mario, pulchritude, xanthosis, Crenshaw: Are your last three words all bullshit words or did one of them still have a relation to cart?
7.) MasterWalks - Skyrim, fart, wheel, vehicle: Why Skyrim? I looked up, and there is a very minor cart meme I found, which is not relevant to Skyrim on a bigger scale.
8.) dawn to dusk - tilt, strong, spoke, fortune
9.) serprex - heal, stones, pandemonium: Noone from your team could identify you. Why? How did your words relate to wheel?
10.) Submachine - Man, driver, road, diamond
11.) Naii_the_Baf - carry, walk, coal, remove: Why walk and remove? Just random words or do they relate?

« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 08:32:00 am by Submachine »
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292120#msg1292120
« Reply #247 on: June 30, 2019, 09:02:28 am »
Chat excerpts with my thoughts on the game.

[18:12:16] ‹shockcannon› “This game is unbalanced”
[18:12:23] ‹shockcannon› “It’s too easy for the Noobs”
[18:14:08] ‹Linkcat› It is, people are just stupid and kept sending more words that gave obvious hints
[18:16:02] ‹Linkcat› Yeah CR threw hard
[18:16:22] ‹Linkcat› MW threw too, his first word was obviously enough
[18:21:57] ‹Linkcat› Well I found dd immediately, and figured out dawn so I'm happy with my performance.
[18:23:50] ‹Linkcat› Btw shock, keep in mind that the game was a lock for the noobs once I confirmed MW and Sub day 1, but we intentionally didn't go that route. Needs to be fixed before the game is run again.
[18:24:56] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@Linkcat› It doesn't matter if the game is a lock, it matters if the Shock can guess the word
[18:25:49] ‹Linkcat› You wouldn't be able to guess if everyone sent garbage
[18:30:39] ‹MasterWalks› Link just flexed his vocab after Mario. Its weird but ok
[18:32:03] ‹Linkcat› They were a reference, you're just uncultured.
[18:33:44] ‹Linkcat› MW had the best first word tbh

Note how I never mentioned the people I confirmed, I only mentioned the people I wanted to kill. This is how everyone should be playing.
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292122#msg1292122
« Reply #248 on: June 30, 2019, 10:00:00 am »
The opening sequence of Skyrim features a long cart ride - I'd say it's really high up on a list of iconic video game intros, given how often it's memed and referenced, so more often than not I would expect it to serve as a useful word for the noobs.
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292138#msg1292138
« Reply #249 on: June 30, 2019, 02:55:12 pm »

Anyways, figured out another winning strategy for town: first day, everyone sends in random words that start with the same letter as their word. Likely you'll know the shocks right away. If not, one team decides to try confirm amongst themselves, while the other team accepts their fate to be passed through the Otyugh. This way only one word is ever revealed. There may be better hash functions than "first letter" but basically the idea is "Come up with a hash function, send in collisions to that hash function, there should be some high collision rate"

By noobs creating a culture of hash function before the start of the game, they reveal less about their word & have an agreed upon pass-or-fail
Fortunately its not quite that simple. all a shock has to do is look at the words before them and match the hash function (provided they can decode it). as such statrting letter only would only lock the shock into a group. which tbh might be good enough to expose them next round because then their word has to still relate to that group.
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292139#msg1292139
« Reply #250 on: June 30, 2019, 02:56:30 pm »
3.) moehrpi - game, throne, mother: What was the reference here?
moe's words do relate; look up Daenarys Targaryen and a recurring theme.

At least one person recognised it. That was kind of my plan. But it needs someone to confirm me publicly which conflicts with Link's gameplan and it wasn't (fast) enough not to be sacrificed.

My words would have been: (game, throne, mother,) dragon, break

The last word could be interpreted in two ways: 'breaker of chains' and 'break the wheel'
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Re: Puzzle Plight - by shockcannon https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67211.msg1292310#msg1292310
« Reply #251 on: July 02, 2019, 04:39:46 am »
@Shocks
Would you have been able to figure out wheel if it wasn't for me? Looking at the list of players who had wheel and their words I'd never have guessed anyone other than Coffee, and he submitted one relevant word and one opposite word, one random word (question mark... I don't think there's enough relevance between amusement and wheel personally and it's certainly not contradictory). And moo? How is Scibra our most obvious member and not myself, and then coffee? I was so obvious that I was easily the worst player this game. What threw me off was serprex saying coffee was on his team at first and then always saying me and coffee wern't on his team. As one of Serprex's teammates, he had so much random and contradictory posts that I couldn't identify him.
Also, how did you figure out cart and wheel? I'm not saying its impossible to figure out or hard, just wondering how you two specifically did it.

My gameplan was to be aggressive about confirming myself early but not TOO obvious for the shocks, create a small group of confirmed players and then lynch the rest just like mafia. A lot of other people had similar thoughts about the small group thing as I expected. I figured not a lot of people listen to the same music, so I wouldn't be too obvious. Once I got to "rock me" I figured 1-2 people with the same word as me would publicly announce me as their teammate realizing its from the song. I didn't expect everyone to figure out the song I was referring to because we all listen to different music. Instead what happened was, yes everyone tried to associate their groups (which immensely helps the shocks and I feel like is bad gameplay) but NOBODY publicly was on my side. Then once I was under the spotlight, I could've either stayed silent and accepted death, or say my words are part of a song. When you see "me, I... etc" I think you should starting stringing the words together. When Ddevans said that my words were referring to my name I was extremely annoyed that players wern't figuring out that by the 2nd word it was part of a song and trying to confirm me.

TL;DR I should've said that my 1st two words were a part of a song and changed my strategy up on the 3rd day so you can't google search to win as a shock (idk about others, but when I google rock me I see "rock me amadeus" "rock me mama" "rock me sober" "rock me like a hurricane" "rock melon") OR accepted death.

I have a love-hate relationship with this game. If your team is more aggressive about confirming themselves then the other team, you actually get to play the game because your team will gang up and lynch the other team; but your team honestly played worse. So the worst noob team always gets to decide the fate of the game. If you don't try to be aggressive about confirming yourself with your team, then you'll die earlier. I almost always died early in mafia, so I tried to play aggressive in this game to ensure longevity. I definitely learned a lot from this game.

I really enjoyed this game and look forward to future rounds and just bettering my play.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 05:02:53 am by CrockettRocket »
A world war? Am I invited?
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