Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Other Topics => Off-Topic Discussions => Forum Games => Topic started by: Linkcat on May 14, 2019, 11:14:50 am

Title: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 14, 2019, 11:14:50 am
Elements Mafia

Started by Mastermind79, Continued by killsdazombies, Implosion, ddevans96, icedoldbro, Demagog, Purity_Riot, Dragoon1140, killsdazombies, 1world24, RavingRabbid, majofa, TStar, killsdazombies, mesaprotector, Regen2k9, Kuroaitou, whatifidogetcaught?, UnderneathTheLens, RootRanger, killsdazombies, Elbirn, ji412jo, dawn to dusk, eljoemo, Zawadx, killsdazombies, theelkspeaks, iancudorinmarian, DoubleCapitals, Dm, Espithel, killsdazombies, skyironsword, Submachine, Coffeeditto, mathman101, Naesala, Ginyu, Linkcat, Solaris, Ryli, killsdazombies, Naii_the_Baf, and Submachine.

All of the players in the game are collectively referred to as the Town. The Town is split into two factions. There is a minority faction, the mafia (False Gods), and a majority faction, the innocents (Elementals). The False Gods start the game with the knowledge of who the other members are, and their goal is to kill all of the Elementals. The Elementals start the game not knowing who is a False God and who is a fellow Elemental, and their goal is to kill all of the False Gods.

The game is split into two phases. It generally starts with a Night Phase, in which the False Gods choose one member of the Town to kill. This is called the Nightkill. Also, players may use abilities given to them by their roles during this phase. Following each Night Phase is the Day Phase. During the day, the Town may choose to lynch one player through the use of votes. Each player gets one vote, and the person with the most votes at the end of the day is lynched and removed from the game. This cycle continues until either all of the False Gods are dead, or the number of False Gods is equal to or greater than the number of Elementals at the beginning of a Day Phase. This is called reaching parity.

How to determine who is mafia and who is innocent is entirely up to the players. As a False God your job is to blend into the Town and direct lynches onto Elementals without giving yourself away. As an Elemental your job is to use logic, reason, tells, intuition, and any abilities you may have to determine who the False Gods are and lynch them. An inactive town will easily fall prey to the mafia, so try to generate as much information as possible. In the game of mafia you have two main weapons; your voice and your vote. Use them wisely.

Village - Town
Villager - Innocent
Civ - Innocent
Wolf - Mafia
Scum - Mafia
Alignment - Primary Role
Rand/Roll - Having a role assigned to you
PR/Power Role - Roles that are very useful to the town - usually includes cop and medic
Cop - A role that has the ability to determine the alignment of another player
Medic - A role that has the ability to protect other players from the Nightkill
Shoot - To use an ability that would kill another player
Claim/Roleclaim - To say that you have a specific role
Civvy Central - A group of confirmed innocents
Scummy - Acting like a mafia
Towny - Acting like an innocent
Town-Cred/Town Points - Factors that make it more likely that a player is innocent
Read - How scummy or towny you think someone is
Tunnel - Having tunnel vision on a single player
Hammer - Casting the final vote needed for a lynch
Bus - To throw a fellow mafia member under the bus to get town-cred
Breadpost - Shitpost
EBWOP - Edit By Way Of Post - Making another post with changes instead of editing a previous one
RQS - Random Question Stage, a common way to start games where one player puts forth a survey of questions for every player to answer
OMGUS - Oh My God, U Suck - Voting on the person who voted on you
WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9TRMQwMNnY) - The dilemma that arises from trying to predict whether someone has made an optimal but expected choice, or a suboptimal but unexpected one

General Mafia Rules

1. Do not post, chat, OR PM ANY revealing information if you have been killed/removed from this mafia. You are allowed one death post that contains no information or commentary about the players.
2. You are not allowed to edit or remove your post. Instead, EBWOP will take effect. This means you must post again with the correct fixes.
3. Directly quoting or providing proof in any way of any PM sent by the host will result in an instant modkill and referral to the FGO.
4. You are not allowed to directly quote any PM sent by another player, unless you are quoting it to a fellow mafia member confirmed by the host.
5. You are not allowed to request to be modkilled in the thread. If you PM the host requesting to be modkilled, the host must find a substitute or modkill you at the end of the phase.
6. All players' actions should be primarily motivated by winning the game. Throwing the game or outing your teammates for no strategic value is not allowed.
7. The host has the final say in any dispute. Do not impersonate the host.
8. Any flaming/trolling will not be tolerated.
9. Players' actions should be motivated by this game's events solely. You may look at past mafias to determine behaviors for better reads, but keep personal affairs out of the game.
10. Anything said within the context of the game, including promises, bets, etc, stays within the game. Players can lie, deceive, and manipulate, (but not cheat) in any way they like. Slander within the context of the game is usually not meant as a personal offense.
*Any use of the word PM by the host or FGO refers to any method of communication outside of the game thread and the blab chat.

Breaking any of the above rules may result in a modkill as determined by the host, or a ban from future mafias or forum games in general as determined by the Forum Game Organizer.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 14, 2019, 11:51:42 am
Phase Links

Night 0 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289440/#msg1289440)
Day 1 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289552/#msg1289552)
Night 1 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289796/#msg1289796)
Day 2 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289884/#msg1289884)
Night 2 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290100/#msg1290100)
Day 3 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290201/#msg1290201)
Night 3 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290360/#msg1290360)
Day 4 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290486/#msg1290486)
Night 4 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290553/#msg1290553)
Day 5 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290606/#msg1290606)
Night 5 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290724/#msg1290724)
Day 6 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290806/#msg1290806)
Night 6 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290877/#msg1290877)
Day 7 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1290910/#msg1290910)
Game End (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1291056/#msg1291056)

Player NamePrimary RoleSecondary RoleDied OnDied By
JonathanCrazyJElementalFate Egg, Guardian AngelDay 1Lynch
PlayerOaElementalSeraphNight 1Nightkill
iancudorinmarianElementalFate Egg, OtyughDay 2Lynch
dawn to duskElementalOtyughNight 2Nightkill
CoffeedittoElementalIridium WardenDay 3Modkill
moehrpiElementalGuardian AngelDay 3Lynch
kaempfer13ElementalOtyughNight 3Nightkill
EspithelParadoxGreen NymphDay 4Lynch
MasterWalksElementalGolden NymphNight 4Nightkill
LinkcatFire QueenFirefly QueenDay 5Lynch
immortal_feudElementalCrusader, Golden NymphNight 5Nightkill
InsignificantWeeabooElementalIridium WardenDay 6Lynch
MobianElementalAmber NymphNight 6Nightkill
mathman101ElementalPsionDay 7Lynch
ddevans96ElementalAnubisDay 7Losing
shockcannonElementalMind FlayerDay 7Losing
CalinduElementalFirefly QueenDay 7Losing

Alive:
15. RootRanger: Mind Flayer
17. Ginyu: Anubis

Elements Mafia Reloaded
Based on Mafia 34 by Elbirn. Heavily modified by Linkcat, Coffeeditto, and killsdazombies.

Game Rules

1. The game will start on Night 0, which will be followed by Day 1. You may post during the Night.
2. Only the last PM sent from the Mafia stating the Nightkill will be counted. The Nightkill is factional and cannot be tracked or roleblocked, but still counts as an ability that targets.
3. If the lynch is tied, No Lynch will occur.
4. You are allowed to vote for No Lynch.
5. Declaring your intent to vote without using the proper format is a valid way to vote.
6. Town wins if all the Mafia are dead. Mafia wins if they achieve parity at the beginning of a Day.
7. The Day will not end until both the timer has ended and 5 minutes have passed since the last vote. If any sort of endless voting loop occurs that affects the lynch, there will be No Lynch. The day will be ended at the host's discretion if there is any vote swapping trolling/juggling.
8. If you do not post for three consecutive phases, you will be modkilled.
9. NO COMMUNICATION IS ALLOWED OUTSIDE OF THIS THREAD, EXCEPT FOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE MAFIA. You may communicate in the official Elements chat, but all relevant messages MUST be posted in this thread.
10. I reserve the right to make any changes to the ruleset in order to maintain the integrity and balance of the game.

Primary Roles

False Gods

The False Gods start the game as a team. Their goal is to kill all of the Elementals. Each Night, they perform a Nightkill on an Elemental of their choosing. The Nightkill interrupts lower priority targets.

Elementals

The Elementals are the townsfolk of the game. Their goal is to kill all of the False Gods through lynching and the use of abilities.

Secondary Roles

All Secondary abilities are activated by PMing your action to the host during the Night Phase. You may not target yourself with any ability unless specified. If an EoR ability fails, you may use it again on the next Night. If an OU ability fails, you may use it again.

Key:
ER - Every Round.
EoR - Every Other Round.
OU - One Use.
Passive - Triggers Automatically.

Information Roles

Golden Nymph - EoR
Precognition - Target a player. Reveal their Primary role to you. You cannot be protected from the Nightkill. Exactly one Elemental and zero False Gods always start with this role.

Psion - ER
Psionic Link - Target a player. Their secondary abilities are revealed to you.

Dragonfly - ER
Fly on the Wall - Target a player. You see who they targeted and who targeted them this Night. This ability works on higher priority targets too.

Firefly Queen - ER
Queen - Generate a firefly that follows target player. The fireflies will report back to you each Night with all abilities that they saw activated, but the cute little guys aren't smart enough to tell you whether an ability was used by your target or on your target. Fireflies are unaffected by all abilities that prevent targeting. If a firefly doesn't witness any abilities, it will wander up to your target and be caught. The target will be notified if they catch a firefly. Fireflies cannot report higher priority activity and will act as not seeing an ability if that's the only thing they would see.

Iridium Warden - ER
Guard - Target a player. Their ability fails, they can not be targeted by other players' secondary abilities, and you learn the names of any abilities used on them. Guard does not block abilities that are higher on the priority list.


Offensive Roles

If two roleblocking roles with the same priority target each other, both abilities fail. If only one targets the other, the ability of the one that was targeted fails.

Toadfish - OU
Inflate - Target player is Poisoned. Target is notified late.

Otyugh - OU
Devour - Target player dies and your role is revealed. If you eat a Toadfish or a player that was Poisoned, you become Poisoned.

Mind Flayer - ER
Psionic Wave - Target a player. They cannot use their ability this Night. Cannot disable Burrow.

Arctic Squid - EoR
Freeze - Target player is Frozen.

Ghost of the Past - ER
Obsession - Target a player. Only affects one player at a time. When you die, their secondary roles have their abilities replaced with Obsessed - ER - Activates automatically. You can't stop thinking about a dead man.

Iridium Warden - ER
Guard - Target a player. Their ability fails, they can not be targeted by other players' secondary abilities, and you learn the names of any abilities used on them. Guard does not block abilities that are higher on the priority list.


Defensive Roles

Guardian Angel - ER
Heal - Target any player including yourself. They are protected from the Nightkill and any further Offensive Roles that target them this Night. This ability fails if the target was Healed by a Guardian Angel on the previous Night.

Graboid - OU
Evolve - Become a Shrieker. You start the game Burrowed.

Shrieker - ER
Burrow/Unburrow - Switch between being Burrowed and unburrowed. You may not start the game with this role.

Seraph - EoR
Divine Shield - You cannot be targeted this Night. Mind Flayers can block this ability.

Phoenix - OU
Ash - This role automatically activates during the phase you die. If this ability is successful, you can talk after your death.

Anubis - EoR
Immortality - Target any player including yourself. They become Immaterial.

Green Nymph - ER
Adrenaline - Target any player including yourself. They gain Adrenaline.

Amber Nymph - EoR
Unstoppable - Target any player including yourself. They gain Momentum.

Iridium Warden - ER
Guard - Target a player. Their ability fails, they can not be targeted by other players' secondary abilities, and you learn the names of any abilities used on them. Guard does not block abilities that are higher on the priority list.

Role Roles

These roles do not disappear when you use them. You will be revealed as having both roles when you die.

Crusader - OU
Endow - Target a player. You gain their secondary ability. Passive abilities trigger immediately. Can be used again if the ability fails.

Vulture - OU
Scavenger - Gain target dead player's secondary role. Only Vultures can target dead players.

"Fun" Roles

Fate Egg - Passive
Hatch - Activates automatically at the start of each Night Phase. You receive a random secondary role other than Fate Egg, and you are disguised as that role if investigated or revealed. You can use your received role. The roles given by Fate Egg are replaced every time Hatch gives you a new role, but abilities given by Endow and Scavenger will stay.

Status Effects

You are notified when you gain a status effect, except for Poison which notifies you on the Night you die. Status effects are permanent, unless it's mentioned otherwise.

Burrowed - You may not vote or be targeted by any ability. Burrowed players do not count towards parity. Voting while Burrowed without Adrenaline results in death.

Poisoned - You die at the end of the second Night Phase after you were poisoned.

Frozen - You may not vote or use any secondary ability. Wears off at the end of the Day Phase.

Adrenaline - You ignore the Frozen status and you can not be Guarded, you may vote while Burrowed, and you die immediately when Poisoned.

Immaterial - You may not be targeted by any secondary ability. Wears off after death.

Momentum - The activations and effects of your abilities can not be prevented or redirected, unless the target is Burrowed. However, being Frozen or Guarded can still block your ability. Momentum does not help abilities that would normally fail (no consecutive Heals). Ignores Immaterial.

Role Priority

Hatch [Fate Egg]
Burrow/Unburrow [Graboid/Shrieker]
Psionic Wave [Mind Flayer]
Queen [Firefly Queen]
Divine Shield [Seraph]
Guard [Iridium Warden]
Unstoppable/Adrenaline [Amber Nymph/Green Nymph]
Immortality [Anubis]
Freeze [Arctic Squid]
Heal/Endow/Scavenger [Guardian Angel/Crusader/Vulture]
Obsession [Ghost of the Past]
Ash [Phoenix]
Nightkill
Inflate [Toadfish]
Devour [Otyugh]
Precognition/Fly on the Wall/Psionic Link [Golden Nymph/Dragonfly/Psion]

Signup List

1. iancudorinmarian
2. Linkcat
3. PlayerOa
4. JonathanCrazyJ
5. immortal_feud
6. kaempfer13
7. ddevans96
8. dawn to dusk
9. InsignificantWeeaboo
10. Espithel
11. MasterWalks
12. Mobian
13. Coffeeditto
14. mathman101
15. RootRanger
16. shockcannon
17. Ginyu
18. Calindu
19. moehrpi

Signups have ended.

Edit 1 (May 23rd): Changed Phoenix and Fate Egg at the end of Night 0. See the Day 1 post.
Phoenix - ER
Ash - This role activates automatically every Night. If you die after successfully using this role, you can talk after your death.

All roles except Fate Egg are replaced every time Hatch gives you a new role.

Edit 2 (May 28th): Removed the part from Rule 1 that phases must be 48+ hours long. Phases might still be 48+ hours long. Crossed out the part about mafia having to send in their NK in a PM. Declaring the intention in the Mafia Pad is also a valid way to target.

Edit 3 (May 30th): Added Fate Egg to JCJ's and iancu's death log. Obsession and Heal no longer have the same priority.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 14, 2019, 11:52:27 am
Note: I am merely the host. All credits go to Linkcat for creating the modified rules.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 14, 2019, 11:53:39 am
inb4 reading rules

inb4 dawn
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: DoubleCapitals on May 14, 2019, 11:54:54 am
To whom it may concern:

This is mafia. Not Survivor.

/out
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 14, 2019, 11:56:48 am
In.

If I don't roll Firefly Queen I will be upset.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 14, 2019, 12:05:31 pm
In!
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 14, 2019, 12:06:24 pm
In
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 14, 2019, 12:06:45 pm
another chance to crush shock, in
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 14, 2019, 12:07:54 pm
In, but dont expect too much from me.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 14, 2019, 12:11:05 pm
In.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 14, 2019, 12:12:13 pm
In
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 14, 2019, 04:59:34 pm
Time to die again!
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 14, 2019, 10:55:54 pm
Linkcat's not hosting it

So, like

In
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 14, 2019, 11:06:33 pm
im so In
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 14, 2019, 11:20:17 pm
another chance to crush shock, in


Bold prediction. You're lucky kaempf joined this.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 15, 2019, 12:33:01 am
In
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Coffeeditto on May 15, 2019, 01:23:59 am
In!
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: mathman101 on May 15, 2019, 02:48:59 am
I'll play again, but I will probably only be semi-active again due to RL.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 15, 2019, 06:45:33 pm
In, I like the rules rework to prohibit communication outside of the thread.

Are secondary roles completely randomized again? Is there any criteria that would cause the randomization to be thrown out? For instance, if the civilians have 3 Guardian Angels, or a single secondary role shows up 5 times, or some other unlikely occurrence, will this be allowed or will the roles be reshuffled?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 15, 2019, 06:52:36 pm
Yes, a complete randomization is planned. If something unbalanced or crazy happens though, I will do a complete reshuffle.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 15, 2019, 08:56:47 pm
Add me to the sign up list.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 16, 2019, 03:27:58 pm
In. Glad private chatting is not allowed, and that I do not have to scan the chat all the time.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 16, 2019, 03:46:01 pm
I'll join this one as well, but don't count on me to be insanely active.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 16, 2019, 05:07:31 pm
In. Glad private chatting is not allowed, and that I do not have to scan the chat all the time.

PMs are allowed, as is Blab, but anything happening in Blab must be copy/pasted in here.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 16, 2019, 05:37:04 pm
In. Glad private chatting is not allowed, and that I do not have to scan the chat all the time.

PMs are allowed, as is Blab, but anything happening in Blab must be copy/pasted in here.

9. NO COMMUNICATION IS ALLOWED OUTSIDE OF THIS THREAD, EXCEPT FOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN MEMBERS OF THE MAFIA. You may communicate in the official Elements chat, but all relevant messages MUST be posted in this thread.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 16, 2019, 07:17:28 pm
Yeah, the rules also changed compared to the last game, so read them carefully.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 17, 2019, 07:30:39 pm
The 2 statements in 9 seem to be contradictory then. Which is it?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 17, 2019, 07:37:52 pm
The first part is about private communication that not everyone can see. I changed the rule to reflect this.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 17, 2019, 07:45:16 pm
Understood. Thanks for clarifying. With this being the case, do you still need the rule regarding directly quoting PMs, since there SHOULDN'T be any PM usage at all?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 17, 2019, 08:12:05 pm
That rule still applies to the host's PMs.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 18, 2019, 03:22:01 am
Changed it back. The purpose of rule 9 is so that the entirety of the game exists only in the game thread, with the exception stated. For the players' convenience, you are allowed to have public discussions in the blab chat, and nowhere else, before posting them in the game thread.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 18, 2019, 06:07:21 am
Quote
4. You are not allowed to directly quote any PM sent by another player, unless you are quoting it to a fellow mafia member confirmed by the host.

That's what I was referring to. That rule's existence is why I thought PMs were ok.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 18, 2019, 06:12:34 am
Those are general mafia rules and each rule may or may not be relevant to a specific mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 19, 2019, 08:33:15 pm
Less than two days left until signup ends.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 20, 2019, 03:29:44 pm
In. Although I am a bit sceptical how well I will put my thoughts in writing.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 21, 2019, 06:04:12 pm
Night 0

Seism: My name is Seism and I'm a False God. Let's see. I'm 90 feet tall and weigh 6430 pounds. Got a little bit of a temper on me. (SERKET, GET THESE SNAKES AWAY FROM ME! RRAAAGH!) My passion bubbles near the surface, I guess, not gonna lie.

Anywho, what else? Uhh.. I'm a destructor of nature! I shake things up. With earthquakes. (I'M GONNA STOMP THESE SNAKES, DAMMIT!) I mean, I'm very good at what I do. Probably the best I know.

The thing is, defeating the False Gods is part of the final quest. Really, that's the goal of the player. So, yeah. Naturally the character that the player controls is the good guy. He is decent enough, as players go. Definitely used cards really well against me. But uh, if you copied a False God grinder from the Decks section, how hard can it be? If he used his own decks, Mono Aether and Rustler Rush, I guarantee you he would not be able to stop me as easily.

When the player does a good job, he gets a reward spin and a free weapon. But are there rewards for being a challenging False God? To that I say HAH! N-no. No, there aren't. I would love to get an Eternity instead of this Pulverizer I can't even use.

Five years I've been doing this and I have seen a lot of updates come and go. Kinda sad. To think about Paradox getting his 6+ copies of cards.. Who would have though? Eternal Crusader? Who knows who that guy is. You know? (Looks at Lionheart.)

Look, a steady False God position is nothing to sneeze about, I'm very lucky. It just... I gotta say, it becomes kinda hard to love your job when noone seems to like you for denying quanta generation from them.

I dunno. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if things were different. But it is what it is. The cards in the player's deck hang out after the battles, where they live happily in peace, you know.

They go to their decks, I go to my place, which happens to be an offline space. If I'm really honest with myself, I see the deck creatures out there, valued high by the player, they are being mixed with the nymphs, sometimes even jerked off to. Sometimes I think: Man... it sure would be nice to be a deck character.

(everyone claps)

Morte: Nice share, Seism. We have all thought what you are feeling and we've come to terms with it.

Seism: Really?

Obliterator: Right here, I'm Obliterator and I'm a False God. I relate to you, Seism. When I'm online, I obliterate the player's creatures and permanents with my Explosions and Otyughs. But I sometimes asked myself: Why are you an evil AI, Obliterator? Why can't you be more like the Oracle? Then I have moment of clarity. If Obliterator is a good guy, who would obliterate the player's creatures and permanents like the 1.4 update obliterated Zanzarino's spirit?

(everyone claps. A snake accidently spits acid on Seism's feet)

Seism: Urghh... Screw this, I'm gonna destroy everyone.

Welcome to the magical land of Elements! There are 4 False Gods and 15 Elementals.

Hold on tight until I send out all roles. Role distribution was completely random, so anything can happen.

Many roles have been clarified during the signup phase. Please look them over again. The Firefly Queen role will be further clarified during Night 0. If you are a new player, make sure you understand the General Mafia Rules and Game Rules before posting. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Once you receive your roles, you can send in your actions, and remember that this is a game and we're all here to have a good time.

Now, let the game begin!

Night 0 has ended.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 21, 2019, 06:17:32 pm
Should have asked this before start, but to clarify PMs to dead phoenix are now banned right?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 21, 2019, 06:31:41 pm
Alright, what's everyones scum reads?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 21, 2019, 06:36:40 pm
All roles should be sent now.~ Have fun!

Should have asked this before start, but to clarify PMs to dead phoenix are now banned right?
PMs to anyone are banned, so that is correct.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 06:39:09 pm
Should have asked this before start, but to clarify PMs to dead phoenix are now banned right?
PMs to anyone are banned.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 06:39:27 pm
That was some ninja...
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 06:47:35 pm
Alright, what's everyones scum reads?
Dice says Ginyu, RootRanger, Espithel. The total sum was also 42, the meaning of life. Coincidence? I think not! :sillyspin:
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 21, 2019, 06:50:49 pm
With PMs banned, the game gets a lot harder. We have a Golden Nymph still and hopefully it won't die early on, although it being EoR makes things difficult. It helps to have roles like GA/Graboid/Seraph/Phoenix since we can potentially dodge some of the night kills while the GN builds up information.

Things got a bit messy last game with a lot of the civs playing in the best interests of mafia, so I have a few guidelines in mind to be discussed.

1.) We need to hold off on revealing secondary roles. Some of the roles are pretty weak in the hands of civs, but when these roles are revealed to mafia, it narrows down the number of people who could be a power role. Last game, mafia knew half the civilian roles very early in the game, so it wasn't really a surprise they were able to kill our Golden Nymph and Vulture before they could do anything useful. The game got harder with the removal of PMs, so it's all the more important to play correctly. No revealing roles unless there's good reason for it.

2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 06:55:30 pm
I agree. All the random roleblocking made it very difficult to get good reads in late game based on previous days.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 21, 2019, 06:58:28 pm
I'm with you. No reason to help mafia by eliminating less useful NK targets.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 21, 2019, 06:59:02 pm
2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles.

I agree with everything except this part. Last game, mafia had a psion. If mafia has another role revealing ability, potentially blocking them will slow mafia down a bunch. Late game we can get strategical with it.

One thing that i would add is dont try to subliminally role reveal. Its what got GN killed last game. So dont put an element mark in a post or something like that.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 21, 2019, 07:06:14 pm
2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles.

I agree with everything except this part. Last game, mafia had a psion. If mafia has another role revealing ability, potentially blocking them will slow mafia down a bunch. Late game we can get strategical with it.

One thing that i would add is dont try to subliminally role reveal. Its what got GN killed last game. So dont put an element mark in a post or something like that.

There are 15 civvies and 4 mafias, it's much more likely to roleblock a civvy than a mafia early on. As Root said, once you are suspicious about someone, you should be fine to start roleblocking.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 21, 2019, 07:11:33 pm
2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles.

I agree with everything except this part. Last game, mafia had a psion. If mafia has another role revealing ability, potentially blocking them will slow mafia down a bunch. Late game we can get strategical with it.

Late game, most definitely, but early game, I think Root and Oa are right. There's too much risk involved with random and low-information targets. I'd like to see most offensive and defensive roles not used for this night - after that, we have something of substance to work with.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 21, 2019, 07:38:54 pm
Night 0 Lore is now updated.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 21, 2019, 07:58:14 pm
Agree with Root. It is very important to have the Golden Nymph trigger, and the less roleblocking we use, the safer it is.

On another note, we should be primarely talking during the Day Phase, as by then we are the first to get value from that information. If something is revealed at Night, mafia might gain momentum.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 21, 2019, 07:59:54 pm
Currently poking through the rules. Will make sporadic posts asking about stuff while I'm at work.

Golden Nymph - EoR
Precognition - Target a player. Reveal their Primary role to you. You cannot be protected from the Nightkill. Exactly one Elemental and zero False Gods always start with this role.


Dwaddy Swubmwachine? Can the nymph not be nightkill-protected at all, or only during nights that ability is activated? owo?

Firefly Queen - ER
Queen - Generate a firefly that follows target player. The fireflies will report back to you each Night with all abilities that they saw activated, but the cute little buggers aren't smart enough to tell you whether an ability was used by your target or on your target. Fireflies are unaffected by all abilities that prevent targeting. If a firefly doesn't witness any abilities, it will wander up to your target and be caught. The target will be notified if they catch a firefly. Fireflies cannot report higher priority activity and will act as not seeing an ability if that's the only thing they would see.


Should we report catching a firefly to the group or not? I feel like we should, but there might be unintended consequences that I may not be aware of.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 21, 2019, 08:06:18 pm
Can the nymph not be nightkill-protected at all, or only during nights that ability is activated?
The nymph cannot be nightkill-protected at all.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 21, 2019, 08:13:39 pm
Mostly agree with root but Ghost of the past drawback is minor and could help identify people who cant be targeted that phase and iridium warden also gains some info with each use. Might be worth using those. Killing people willy nilly is of course sth thats reservered to mafia and early lynches while one time use kills should only be used when you are fairly sure it gets the right person.
About queen reporting I dont know either. Not 100% sure i fully understand it either, but we got the promise it will be clarified.

All PMs banned? surely not to Host, but yh huge nerf for town (so us). I guess with everything that went wrong last time and town still winning I suppose thats fair.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 21, 2019, 08:57:57 pm
Also, while we're at it. There's this corner of the forum called http://elementscommunity.org/forum/who.
It lets you see what people are looking at, or even what they're posting in:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580497899587239968/unknown.png)

I would like to ask that, in the name of sportsmanship, we don't use this. It's been used in previous mafias in the past and I've always hated it, as it's obscure and, in my opinion, against the spirit of the game. I'm telling you all about it just to make absolutely sure you're all aware of this.

If the group's fine with it, you can absolutely bet your anuses that I'm going to be mashing F5 on it, seeing what we can get. I'd encourage everyone else to do the same - no message-sending is safe. We'd find all the messaging roles (including who sends the nightkill) by the first night.

There's probably a way to turn it off:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580497645387251756/unknown.png)
But I don't know how. We should probably figure that out.

If it was me with total power, I'd have Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) modkill any proven instances, but that's tricky to moderate as he'd have to mash F5. I think Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) has better things to do with his time.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 09:00:25 pm
You can't turn it off, it appears like that because he's viewing a secret section.

Also, I don't think anyone used that.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 21, 2019, 09:11:47 pm
Yep was doing council stuff, i didnt know that even existed or how/if you can turn it off.

While its a kinda cool tool, I dont see how it could be used against someone. If someone is sending a PM, there is absolutely no way of knowing if thats a mafia or a civvy or anything. The PM could be to anyone about anything. If it was against the rules, it would be crazy hard to moderate. Am i missing something in the way that it can be used against someone?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 21, 2019, 09:15:41 pm
2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Mostly agree with root but Ghost of the past drawback is minor and could help identify people who cant be targeted that phase and iridium warden also gains some info with each use. Might be worth using those. Killing people willy nilly is of course sth thats reservered to mafia and early lynches while one time use kills should only be used when you are fairly sure it gets the right person.
About queen reporting I dont know either. Not 100% sure i fully understand it either, but we got the promise it will be clarified.

GotP can potentially fuck up everything. I don't think it's that good of an idea to use it early. Warden on the other hand can gather quite a bit of information I guess. So I think it might be worth blocking a random role.


I am wondering how useful Nymphs are. Green and Amber seem to good to cast onto oneself especially if Warden/Squid are mafia. Turquoise/Anubis doesn't look powerful at all. I don't see the benefit of an Immortal army for town. Does mafia benefit? Should we not use it at all? If we find that there are a couple protected people we can assume they are mafia.

Rule question: Do people with Adrenaline know they are frozen? Does the ability fail?

Is there any sensible way to get publicly confirmed civ? If no does this mean Crusader has to use its ability on a wing and prayer?

My scum read is iancu. He is trying to trick us there are only three mafia.



I am also against using the who function. Although I did follow the link just now. ~~
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 09:22:01 pm
lol, I just thought it's the same number of mafia as last game. Only now saw that there's 4 of them.

And please don't roleblock random people...
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 21, 2019, 09:24:12 pm
I dont like it. Reason: Unreliability and if it works better than I give it Credit for it makes activity even more taxing.  Especially people with staff roles or an ongoing pvpevent will be sending plenty of messages unrelated to mafia and youd have to watch 24/7. In case you are subtly trying to incriminate me as the only message sender, I was giving shock deckadvice completely unrelated to this game. He can probably vouch for that.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 21, 2019, 09:24:58 pm
I doubt anyone is committed enough to use the 'who' function in that way, it would basically require 2 full days of F5'ing, and I doubt the only messages that are being sent around are related to mafia anyway. Also, it's a pretty fun function, you get to see what guests are looking at and which members are feeling nostalgic.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 21, 2019, 09:26:19 pm
Agree with root. Game just became so much harder with no pms not just because of phoenix but because there cant be a civvy central of nymph confirmed people behind the scene. Timing the release of info by nymph is paramount. Too early and get instakilled, too late and all that info is lost with death. 
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 21, 2019, 09:30:22 pm
lol, I just thought it's the same number of mafia as last game. Only now saw that there's 4 of them.

And please don't roleblock random people...

My thought was that everyone should gather as much information themselves as they can since there is no way to share sensitive information until we're in the final stages of the game.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 21, 2019, 09:31:56 pm
I have an idea. We're still going to lynch whoever we want to, but we should have a bunch of random votes as well (and not just 1-offs). The Golden Nymph would vote on who they discovered to be mafia and pretty much leave it at that without trying to push for the lynch.

Then, when the Golden Nymph finally gets nightkilled, we would know a few of the mafia.

Of course, this needs to be done carefully to avoid detection.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 21, 2019, 09:33:51 pm
I have an idea. We're still going to lynch whoever we want to, but we should have a bunch of random votes as well (and not just 1-offs). The Golden Nymph would vote on who they discovered to be mafia and pretty much leave it at that without trying to push for the lynch.

Then, when the Golden Nymph finally gets nightkilled, we would know a few of the mafia.

Of course, this needs to be done carefully to avoid detection.

I doubt that would work. Nymph would die before he finds out a second mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 21, 2019, 09:39:38 pm
I'm thinking GN should probably reveal if they find 2 or more mafia
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 21, 2019, 09:47:37 pm
In case you are subtly trying to incriminate me as the only message sender, I was giving shock deckadvice completely unrelated to this game. He can probably vouch for that.

No incrimination attempt intended. Really sorry if it came out like that. I had another screenshot prepared, but then I saw Walk's nothing, or nothing you could see and decided to use that one to be consistent and stop people asking why it's two different screenies.

That also means I can vouch for you.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580508666541637632/unknown.png)
:^)


Ultimately, the information you get from this is pretty small, even if you mash F5 - it'll all be circumstantial evidence. But information is king in Mafia, and this gives millions of tiny pebbles of information that you shouldn't have.
So I'm going to hold true to my values and stop using it. I hope. It's kinda addicting.

-

As for Golden Nymph, what stops her from roleclaiming and being backed up by a heal/guard? It's just that the heal/guard could be mafia, right?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 21, 2019, 09:50:32 pm
Golden Nymph cannot be protected.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 21, 2019, 09:54:45 pm
I asked that, too. Didn't I.

I'm stupid.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 21, 2019, 09:56:19 pm
There's staff work, there's PvP, there's soon to be Brawl, there's random chitchat a lŕ kaempfer and shock... continuously monitoring Who's Online won't help us a single bit. Not like banning it would be possible by any means, anyway.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 21, 2019, 10:12:19 pm
There's staff work, there's PvP, there's soon to be Brawl, there's random chitchat a lŕ kaempfer and shock... continuously monitoring Who's Online won't help us a single bit. Not like banning it would be possible by any means, anyway.

Agreed, especially given how there's more going on in these forums besides our mafia game. Other than that, I agree with playjng it cool with ability usage while we gather more intel.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 21, 2019, 10:31:43 pm
I have an idea. We're still going to lynch whoever we want to, but we should have a bunch of random votes as well (and not just 1-offs). The Golden Nymph would vote on who they discovered to be mafia and pretty much leave it at that without trying to push for the lynch.

Then, when the Golden Nymph finally gets nightkilled, we would know a few of the mafia.

Of course, this needs to be done carefully to avoid detection.
+1 to this. Worst case, GN ends up not  finding mafia and voting on randoms, which would be no better than what we'd have anyways.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 21, 2019, 10:33:39 pm
2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Mostly agree with root but Ghost of the past drawback is minor and could help identify people who cant be targeted that phase and iridium warden also gains some info with each use. Might be worth using those. Killing people willy nilly is of course sth thats reservered to mafia and early lynches while one time use kills should only be used when you are fairly sure it gets the right person.
About queen reporting I dont know either. Not 100% sure i fully understand it either, but we got the promise it will be clarified.

GotP can potentially fuck up everything. I don't think it's that good of an idea to use it early. Warden on the other hand can gather quite a bit of information I guess. So I think it might be worth blocking a random role.


I am wondering how useful Nymphs are. Green and Amber seem to good to cast onto oneself especially if Warden/Squid are mafia. Turquoise/Anubis doesn't look powerful at all. I don't see the benefit of an Immortal army for town. Does mafia benefit? Should we not use it at all? If we find that there are a couple protected people we can assume they are mafia.

Rule question: Do people with Adrenaline know they are frozen? Does the ability fail?

Is there any sensible way to get publicly confirmed civ? If no does this mean Crusader has to use its ability on a wing and prayer?

My scum read is iancu. He is trying to trick us there are only three mafia.



I am also against using the who function. Although I did follow the link just now. ~~
Gotp is an extremely conditional permanent roleblock. It does get pretty bad if it triggers early on the wrong person, but you either use it basically never, or once you have used reaim it constantly to get as much info as possible (unless you somehow know the current target is a good one, but in that case why dont you just lynch them? Especially with all Info you can get as towny who is not using secondary. It's kinda a shitty ability for a towny to have, it's either mostly worse psion as untargetabilityidentifier or just plain dead. I do wonder now tho if a towny ghost should actually use its ability now. 90% of the time itll just do nothing and it hitting a towny at time of death is not much less likely than identifying untargetability once or more,  even with my suggested strategy. But either go ham with the targeting and pray it doesn't backfire or don't use it until you somehow found a mafia and yet we refuse to lynch them even though everything a passive towny gotp would know is public knowledge?
But anyway, looks like gotp ability already triggered on me with how worked up it has me whether it is any good at all.
Expect similiar monologues about ffq, Im just legit confused as to how to use some of the roles.

I don't think having decoy golden nymphs is any good. It basically guarantees we lynch town with fewer townies working on it
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 21, 2019, 10:57:53 pm
GotP definitely could be useful to town under certain circumstances, but I'll still say save it until we have a reason to use it rather than popping it immediately. Same with Anubis.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 21, 2019, 11:12:35 pm
Damn, it's good to be back. Requesting Heal/Buffs on me.

Let's start off with a quote wall to get some of that energy out.

Alright, what's everyones scum reads?

Rob.

That was some ninja...

Says the guy with the Kakashi avatar.

Alright, what's everyones scum reads?
Dice says Ginyu, RootRanger, Espithel. The total sum was also 42, the meaning of life. Coincidence? I think not! :sillyspin:

I'm fine with this. What order should we lynch?

With PMs banned, the game gets a lot harder. We have a Golden Nymph still and hopefully it won't die early on, although it being EoR makes things difficult. It helps to have roles like GA/Graboid/Seraph/Phoenix since we can potentially dodge some of the night kills while the GN builds up information.

Things got a bit messy last game with a lot of the civs playing in the best interests of mafia, so I have a few guidelines in mind to be discussed.

1.) We need to hold off on revealing secondary roles. Some of the roles are pretty weak in the hands of civs, but when these roles are revealed to mafia, it narrows down the number of people who could be a power role. Last game, mafia knew half the civilian roles very early in the game, so it wasn't really a surprise they were able to kill our Golden Nymph and Vulture before they could do anything useful. The game got harder with the removal of PMs, so it's all the more important to play correctly. No revealing roles unless there's good reason for it.

2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Agree, do not claim your roles until absolutely necessary.

Disagree, roleblock people you scumread. If you're a new player and self-aware enough to know that your reads are probably bad, don't roleblock. Killing roles should be used on inactive players or if you have a strong scumread mid-late game.

Agree with Root. It is very important to have the Golden Nymph trigger, and the less roleblocking we use, the safer it is.

On another note, we should be primarely talking during the Day Phase, as by then we are the first to get value from that information. If something is revealed at Night, mafia might gain momentum.

Disagree. More discussion is always better, and we should be using that to build reads, instead of just relying on abilities.

Dwaddy Swubmwachine?

Please do not call him that, it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Should we report catching a firefly to the group or not? I feel like we should, but there might be unintended consequences that I may not be aware of.

Yes.

Also, while we're at it. There's this corner of the forum called http://elementscommunity.org/forum/who.
It lets you see what people are looking at, or even what they're posting in:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580497899587239968/unknown.png)

I would like to ask that, in the name of sportsmanship, we don't use this. It's been used in previous mafias in the past and I've always hated it, as it's obscure and, in my opinion, against the spirit of the game. I'm telling you all about it just to make absolutely sure you're all aware of this.

If the group's fine with it, you can absolutely bet your anuses that I'm going to be mashing F5 on it, seeing what we can get. I'd encourage everyone else to do the same - no message-sending is safe. We'd find all the messaging roles (including who sends the nightkill) by the first night.

There's probably a way to turn it off:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580497645387251756/unknown.png)
But I don't know how. We should probably figure that out.

If it was me with total power, I'd have Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) modkill any proven instances, but that's tricky to moderate as he'd have to mash F5. I think Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) has better things to do with his time.

Discuss.

I agree, it's better for the spirit of the game if we don't use that.

You can't turn it off, it appears like that because he's viewing a secret section.

Also, I don't think anyone used that.

Sub definitely used that last mafia lol.

2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Mostly agree with root but Ghost of the past drawback is minor and could help identify people who cant be targeted that phase and iridium warden also gains some info with each use. Might be worth using those. Killing people willy nilly is of course sth thats reservered to mafia and early lynches while one time use kills should only be used when you are fairly sure it gets the right person.
About queen reporting I dont know either. Not 100% sure i fully understand it either, but we got the promise it will be clarified.

GotP can potentially fuck up everything. I don't think it's that good of an idea to use it early. Warden on the other hand can gather quite a bit of information I guess. So I think it might be worth blocking a random role.


I am wondering how useful Nymphs are. Green and Amber seem to good to cast onto oneself especially if Warden/Squid are mafia. Turquoise/Anubis doesn't look powerful at all. I don't see the benefit of an Immortal army for town. Does mafia benefit? Should we not use it at all? If we find that there are a couple protected people we can assume they are mafia.

Rule question: Do people with Adrenaline know they are frozen? Does the ability fail?

Is there any sensible way to get publicly confirmed civ? If no does this mean Crusader has to use its ability on a wing and prayer?

My scum read is iancu. He is trying to trick us there are only three mafia.



I am also against using the who function. Although I did follow the link just now. ~~

The benefit of Immortality is for useful roles to not get roleblocked or killed. Crusader should try to read the Golden Nymph or another strong role and target them.

I was giving shock deckadvice completely unrelated to this game. He can probably vouch for that.

Lmao

I have an idea. We're still going to lynch whoever we want to, but we should have a bunch of random votes as well (and not just 1-offs). The Golden Nymph would vote on who they discovered to be mafia and pretty much leave it at that without trying to push for the lynch.

Then, when the Golden Nymph finally gets nightkilled, we would know a few of the mafia.

Of course, this needs to be done carefully to avoid detection.

This can definitely work on Day 1 when everyone's voting randomly. After that it's a bad idea.

GN should be breadcrumbing their targets in a way so that when they die, we can carefully scrutinize their posts and determine their targets and results.

I asked that, too. Didn't I.

I'm stupid.

Agree.

GotP definitely could be useful to town under certain circumstances, but I'll still say save it until we have a reason to use it rather than popping it immediately. Same with Anubis.

Disagree, Ghost and Anubis can be helpful early if you have a good read.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 21, 2019, 11:16:23 pm
A good read would be a reason to use it, so we're in agreement.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 21, 2019, 11:18:29 pm
Dwaddy Winkwat OwO
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 21, 2019, 11:26:58 pm
Alright, what's everyones scum reads?
Dice says Ginyu, RootRanger, Espithel. The total sum was also 42, the meaning of life. Coincidence? I think not! :sillyspin:

I'm fine with this. What order should we lynch?

/me looks at Espithel's posts

We could always petty lynch.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 21, 2019, 11:29:49 pm
Espithel (1) - Linkcat
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Coffeeditto on May 22, 2019, 03:08:03 am
The only role-blocking ability I see an upside to is Warden. It blocks and informational role, but prevents mafia from finding out that they're potentially an investigative role. It also just protects anyone it targets. Good for town because of the protection, good against mafia for role blockage. Other than that, I agree with Root.

Scum reads are dangerous to out this early in the game, but I would be wary of anyone who is rooting for something under the guise of it being good for town.

-

Golden Nymph should not out if they find a mafia; soft any mafia and lay low until multiple people are cleared (2-4 is best) and someone is leading a lynch on your clear.Other investigative roles should search, but if they find the golden nymph, know that they are a confirmed town.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Coffeeditto on May 22, 2019, 03:08:54 am
EBWOP: protects anyone it targets from secondary roles.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 22, 2019, 05:59:40 am
The only role-blocking ability I see an upside to is Warden. It blocks and informational role, but prevents mafia from finding out that they're potentially an investigative role. It also just protects anyone it targets. Good for town because of the protection, good against mafia for role blockage. Other than that, I agree with Root.

Scum reads are dangerous to out this early in the game, but I would be wary of anyone who is rooting for something under the guise of it being good for town.

The only time scum reads are dangerous to out is during the Night in late game, so feel free to call me out directly. It will progress the game faster.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Coffeeditto on May 22, 2019, 06:02:29 am
I will feel free to do that if and when I scum read you.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 22, 2019, 06:16:47 am
If it was me with total power, I'd have Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) modkill any proven instances, but that's tricky to moderate as he'd have to mash F5. I think Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) has better things to do with his time.
I allow using /who, because it is an unreliable source of information, but please do not post screenshots of the /who page. You can describe your findings with words, but posting screenshots is against the spirit of Mafia.

Rule question: Do people with Adrenaline know they are frozen? Does the ability fail?
If a player becomes Frozen, the player is notified even if he has Adrenaline. The ability does not fail, the player will have both the Frozen and the Adrenaline statuses.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 22, 2019, 06:44:51 am
(https://gyazo.com/e87c476d76833b1d6b541e0ded74917a.png)

The way you worded your post implies that you are scumreading someone who is "rooting for something under the guise of it being good for town," but you don't want to name them directly. In my view, the only people it makes sense for you to be throwing shade at are me or (looking back through the thread) MW, since we're the only ones who disagreed with you and everyone else. If not me, then who were you throwing shade at? If you say nobody, then your post doesn't make sense.

And while I'm mentioning MW's post,

2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles.

I agree with everything except this part. Last game, mafia had a psion. If mafia has another role revealing ability, potentially blocking them will slow mafia down a bunch. Late game we can get strategical with it.

One thing that i would add is dont try to subliminally role reveal. Its what got GN killed last game. So dont put an element mark in a post or something like that.

I want to say that DC did not soft GN with the time mark, he did that because he is a former Master of Time. Mafia read him as GN for two things he did that were not related to his role, and got lucky that he was actually GN.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Coffeeditto on May 22, 2019, 06:56:21 am
The way you worded your post implies that you are scumreading someone who is "rooting for something under the guise of it being good for town," but you don't want to name them directly. In my view, the only people it makes sense for you to be throwing shade at are me or (looking back through the thread) MW, since we're the only ones who disagreed with you and everyone else. If not me, then who were you throwing shade at? If you say nobody, then your post doesn't make sense.

I said to be wary; I have no scumreads right now. That comment was a light stab for us to be careful submitting to plans that have downsides for town.

-

People I disagree with aren't wrong.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 22, 2019, 01:06:47 pm
Here is the anticipated clarification about Firefly Queen:
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 22, 2019, 01:27:05 pm
So basically 2 coordinated ffqs can prevent their fireflies from ever being detected? Or does only the Initial deployment of the firefly count as activation?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 22, 2019, 01:44:31 pm
So basically 2 coordinated ffqs can prevent their fireflies from ever being detected? Or does only the Initial deployment of the firefly count as activation?
If two Firefly Queens target the same player with Queen, the fireflies will report Queen to their own Firefly Queens, which would otherwise not happen. Surely that would also count as being detected.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 22, 2019, 05:57:28 pm
Yh but they never ever go away and report every night
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 22, 2019, 07:02:58 pm
Yh but they never ever go away and report every night
I missed to clarify that. The fireflies only visit their targets for one night, then they either return to the queen or get caught.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 22, 2019, 07:26:15 pm
Quote
Generate a firefly that follows target player. The fireflies will report back to you each Night with all abilities that they saw activated

The wording makes it seem fireflies are permanent.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 22, 2019, 07:45:46 pm
It's then Linkcat who didn't clarify this role enough. I will wait for his response.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 22, 2019, 07:48:51 pm
inb4 "Linkcat has been modkilled" :sillyspin:
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 22, 2019, 07:57:44 pm
Y'all talk too much. I'll eat the next person to post if it's not Submachine.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 22, 2019, 08:07:18 pm
vore me daddy
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 22, 2019, 08:11:26 pm
You've had a good run Insig.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 22, 2019, 11:37:26 pm
Iancu is correct, the role clearly shows that the firefly is permanent until it's caught.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 23, 2019, 06:04:37 am
Iancu is correct, the role clearly shows that the firefly is permanent until it's caught.
Sorry for the confusion then. The sent fireflies are permanent until caught.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 06:38:25 am
And 2 fireflies from different queens on the same player can never get caught?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 23, 2019, 06:51:13 am
Fireflies are a passive effect so they only count as activations when they're activated.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 11:31:35 am
Petition to shorten future night phases to 1 day (24 hours).
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 23, 2019, 11:34:25 am
*signs*
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: DoubleCapitals on May 23, 2019, 12:39:07 pm
I disagree.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 23, 2019, 12:56:20 pm
I disagree.
I agree
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 01:04:12 pm
Anyone who doesn't sign the petition is mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 23, 2019, 01:34:27 pm
Petition to shorten future night phases to 1 day (24 hours).

Yes please, 1 day should be more than enough.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 23, 2019, 01:59:06 pm
Agreed
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 23, 2019, 03:12:35 pm
Agreed, honestly, I feel both phases should only be 24h long.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 23, 2019, 03:23:15 pm
I think the day phase being 2 days makes sense. Since we have people from different time zones in the event. With 2 days for the day phase, you can have people from all the timezones post their thoughts during the first day, followed by the second day where everyone can decide their actions given the input on the thread. Not sure if I'm explaining it well though.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 03:23:36 pm
I thought first round would just be the exception for everyone to get used to their roles. 2 days between using abilities is more than enough (heck it stills takes a month to finish like so). I guess the more time between nightkills the better for town (with night having the downside of giving mafia the stronger moves though), but for time effiency I would still think 1 day per phase (~2 days between use of abilities) is just more appropriate.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 03:25:28 pm
Yh, getting 19 ppl coordinated might take 2 days, so as a totally not biased player I am for that :P
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 04:48:18 pm
Petition to shorten future night phases to 1 day (24 hours).

Seconded.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 05:24:36 pm
Petition to shorten future night phases to 1 day (24 hours).

Seconded.

Thirded
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 05:39:43 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/Bg9gnB3.png)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 05:41:31 pm
Petition to shorten future night phases to 1 day (24 hours).

Definitely.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 23, 2019, 05:53:23 pm
Petition to shorten future night phases to 1 day (24 hours).


Petition to shorten your life, mafia scum.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 23, 2019, 06:01:05 pm
Day 1

It's like I have been in this place before, but higher on the streets. I know it's my time to go.

*calling you*: The search is a mystery.

Noone has died yet.

A petition was started to shorten the Night phases. Let's make it official. Here is the voting form, which you can all sign:

The night ending in 24 hours or more.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (0) -
The night ending earlier if everyone sent in their role uses.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (0) -
The night ending in 2 days or more.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (0) -

Anyone can have one vote within each table. Votes can be changed. The voting will end at the end of the phase. Hopefully Linkcat won't veto the whole thing.

Here is a short summary of the role clarifications during Night 0:

I also received the following two corrections from Linkcat, which were accounted when evaluating Night 0:

Day 1 has ended.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 23, 2019, 06:04:10 pm
I vote for the first 2 options.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 06:07:25 pm

The night ending in 24 hours or more.
Against it (0) -
Not against it (1) - MasterWalks

The night ending earlier if everyone sent in their role uses.
Against it (0) -
Not against it (1) - MasterWalks

The night ending in 2 days or more.
Against it (1) - MasterWalks
Not against it (0) -




did i do it right?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 06:09:30 pm
So who are we petty lynching? Or does anyone have a good lead?

Also, I caught a firefly.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 06:10:08 pm
Please just add a poll, Sub.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 06:10:26 pm
The night ending in 24 hours or more.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (3) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel
The night ending earlier if everyone sent in their role uses.
  • Against it (1) - Espithel
  • Not against it (2) - Mobian, MasterWalks
The night ending in 2 days or more.
  • Against it (3) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel
  • Not against it (0) -

Or, yeah, add a poll.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 06:11:17 pm
My ability failed. So I guess people are random roleblocking for no reason *sigh*
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 23, 2019, 06:12:22 pm
The night ending in 24 hours or more.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (4) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel, Calindu
The night ending earlier if everyone sent in their role uses.
  • Against it (2) - Espithel, Calindu
  • Not against it (2) - Mobian, MasterWalks
The night ending in 2 days or more.
  • Against it (4) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel, Calindu
  • Not against it (0) -
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 06:13:15 pm
My ability failed. So I guess people are random roleblocking for no reason *sigh*

We agreed to not role block i thought. If i was to put a tin foil hat on, id say whoever you targeted might be working with mafia. My ability failed too or i just havent got the PM yet.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 06:14:31 pm
EBWOP- I got the PM my ability didnt fail
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 23, 2019, 06:14:52 pm
My ability failed. So I guess people are random roleblocking for no reason *sigh*

Or mafia has a roleblocker. Could be a good first lead if someone saw who targetted ian.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 06:15:13 pm
My ability failed. So I guess people are random roleblocking for no reason *sigh*
Maybe it was actually warden preventing you from getting killed among other things (as we figured guard is still worth using as towny, even if there is no real lead to go by). Or just mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 06:16:48 pm
Oh or your target was actually protected
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 06:21:05 pm
The night ending in 24 hours or more.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (5) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel, Calindu, iancudorinmarian
The night ending earlier if everyone sent in their role uses.
  • Against it (3) - Espithel, Calindu, iancudorinmarian
  • Not against it (2) - Mobian, MasterWalks
The night ending in 2 days or more.
  • Against it (5) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel, Calindu, iancudorinmarian
  • Not against it (0) -

Fine, no poll then.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 23, 2019, 06:23:29 pm
All ability results should be sent out by now. I will create a poll too.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 23, 2019, 06:23:48 pm
The night ending in 24 hours or more.
  • Against it (0) -
  • Not against it (6) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel, Calindu, iancudorinmarian, Ginyu
The night ending earlier if everyone sent in their role uses.
  • Against it (4) - Espithel, Calindu, iancudorinmarian, Ginyu
  • Not against it (2) - Mobian, MasterWalks
The night ending in 2 days or more.
  • Against it (6) - Mobian, MasterWalks, Espithel, Calindu, iancudorinmarian, Ginyu
  • Not against it (0) -

Night ending earlier would crash the schedule which would cause chaos. Nobody loves chaos. Gravity is king.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 06:26:05 pm
I agree with Ginyu. I don't want to have to have people delay their ability use until the last moment just to keep the schedule.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 06:26:31 pm
Back on the game for a bit, should I say who I targeted?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 23, 2019, 06:28:15 pm
Back on the game for a bit, should I say who I targeted?
That completely depends on your ability, which only you know. I'd say keep your cards close to your chest, but it's all up to you really. Only you would know if that info helps us or not.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 06:28:48 pm
Gahh I guess I'll go first.

Also, while we're at it. There's this corner of the forum called http://elementscommunity.org/forum/who.
It lets you see what people are looking at, or even what they're posting in:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580497899587239968/unknown.png)

I would like to ask that, in the name of sportsmanship, we don't use this. It's been used in previous mafias in the past and I've always hated it, as it's obscure and, in my opinion, against the spirit of the game. I'm telling you all about it just to make absolutely sure you're all aware of this.

If the group's fine with it, you can absolutely bet your anuses that I'm going to be mashing F5 on it, seeing what we can get. I'd encourage everyone else to do the same - no message-sending is safe. We'd find all the messaging roles (including who sends the nightkill) by the first night.

There's probably a way to turn it off:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/580497645387251756/unknown.png)
But I don't know how. We should probably figure that out.

If it was me with total power, I'd have Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) modkill any proven instances, but that's tricky to moderate as he'd have to mash F5. I think Dwaddy Swubmwachine (owo) has better things to do with his time.

Discuss.

Oh this is super sketchy. Espi had options here.
He continues to use it without telling anyone. Thats real Mafia spirit. He uses a tool to his advantage until told otherwise. The only thing this tool can do to rise suspicion is tell you if someone is sending a PM. So this doesnt role reveal meaning the only person this tool is harmful to is Mafia. The only people who wouldn't want this tool used is Mafia. So Espi asking in public is super weird. He couldve asked sub in private just as easy. But it sounds like he wants to tool banned. His excuse? The spirit of Mafia.
Damn good excuse tbh. HOWEVER, asking about its legality in public is still really weird. It doesnt sit right with me. Espi doesnt sit right with me overall tbh. Lemme break it down into pros and cons.

Pros if we lynch
Mafia Kill
No more owo posts

Cons
Possible civ kill tho i doubt it.

Pros outweigh the cons.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: mathman101 on May 23, 2019, 06:35:41 pm
Have only skimmed due to being at work, but it looks like there is a lot of discussion going on which is good.

Back on the game for a bit, should I say who I targeted?
That completely depends on your ability, which only you know. I'd say keep your cards close to your chest, but it's all up to you really. Only you would know if that info helps us or not.

I agree with this, if you think it will help us post, otherwise hold onto the cards until we need the info or right before you might die.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 23, 2019, 06:47:23 pm
Night ending earlier would crash the schedule which would cause chaos. Nobody loves chaos. Gravity is king.
I agree with Ginyu. I don't want to have to have people delay their ability use until the last moment just to keep the schedule.
I also agree with this, so even though the Night would end earlier, the Day phase would still end on the same hour, making the Day phase as longer as the Night phase was shorter. This would be most effective on later Nights though, with much less players alive.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 07:07:46 pm
vore me daddy
Pros to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Mafia Kill
No more Vore

Cons to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Possible civ kill, although I doubt it.

The pros outweigh the cons.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel

(This is a rhetorical vote. I don't actually believe that Weebs should be lynched. Not enough evidence.)

Back on the game for a bit, should I say who I targeted?

You've already told the entire group, including the mafia, you have a role that targets. That's already pretty brazen of you.
That's really the bit the mafia care about when they decide who to kill - the role itself. The roles they hate the most all target, so you've basically just asked to be nightkilled at some point. Same goes for you too, Walks.

Since you've already claimed that, I would tell the group who you targeted, then we can ask them why your ability didn't go through.
Here are the possibilities. There may be more, but these are the ones I can think of:
- They're a shrieker or a graboid.
- You got roleblocked.
- You hit someone who got blind immortaled (either anubis targeting themself or, maliciously, another mafia member.)
- Depending on your ability, you hit someone who got blind adrenalined (either targeting themself or, maliciously, another mafia member.)
- You got guarded.
Some of these imply you hit a mafia, so I think it's worth persuing.

If you're going to go all the way, you could explain why you targeted that person, but that comes pretty close to a straight roleclaim, so I'd be very careful if you do.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 07:12:35 pm
Back on the game for a bit, should I say who I targeted?

No. Its going to give mafia information more than town.
If you say who you targeted, and it's NOT a mafia, then mafia knows not to target the same person you did since they are most likely burrowed, giving them the upperhand and a way to tell who is who by process of elimination
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 07:17:44 pm
Tbh, me getting nightkilled just spares someone else with a better role, so I'm fine with dying for the greater good at some point.

Anyway, I'll hold onto that info for a while.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 07:26:52 pm
Chances are the mafia already targeted someone they couldnt and as espithel said, if the reason it failed was because the target was protected it slightly increases the chances of the protegee to be a mafia.

As for now, regardless of whether you are town or not, I feel like you are not really helping town. So my vote goes to you for now, though the accusation is primarily incompetence and any hotter lead will sway me.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 07:48:25 pm

As for now, regardless of whether you are town or not, I feel like you are not really helping town. So my vote goes to you for now, though the accusation is primarily incompetence

Enlighten me please.

I argued for using the tool, which only harms mafia.
I told ian not to spill any beans, as that would only help mafia.

I'm not sure what else i can do to help town. I cant role reveal, or that would help mafia. I cant say what/if i gathered information, or that would help mafia. I am the second most active member on this thread so its not like I'm hiding in the shadows or anything. While im not arguing against your vote necessarily, I am arguing for your reason.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 23, 2019, 07:49:03 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13

(This is a rhetorical vote. I don't actually believe that Weebs should be lynched. Not enough evidence.)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 23, 2019, 08:06:02 pm
You all are actually so boring to read. I don't think shortening night phase is going to make that any more bearable. Let's speed things up a bit. I'm mind flayer. The person I blocked last night is hidden somewhere in this message. Have fun.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 23, 2019, 08:09:58 pm

As for now, regardless of whether you are town or not, I feel like you are not really helping town. So my vote goes to you for now, though the accusation is primarily incompetence

Enlighten me please.

I argued for using the tool, which only harms mafia.
I told ian not to spill any beans, as that would only help mafia.

I'm not sure what else i can do to help town. I cant role reveal, or that would help mafia. I cant say what/if i gathered information, or that would help mafia. I am the second most active member on this thread so its not like I'm hiding in the shadows or anything. While im not arguing against your vote necessarily, I am arguing for your reason.

My guess is that kaempfer disagrees with the strategy of immediately throwing shade at someone, in this case Espithel.

I can understand you both.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 08:24:17 pm
I think espithel is right in thinking revealing ians target is helpfull. No nightkill occured, so chances are mafia already knows someone who wasnt possible to target that was not one of theirs; then theres espithels breakdown on how mafia is more likely to be protected, so chances are ian will either uncover the nightkill target or a mafia member with room for uncertainty ofc.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 23, 2019, 08:27:43 pm
I argued for using the tool, which only harms mafia.

I also believe the tool is against the spirit of the game, as it defeats the main way to play the game, which is finding the mafia using the skills available to you and the information present in players posts. Sure, someone constantly F5'ing around and noting down all PM related information can probably find something important at some point, but it's silly and not a fun way to play the game.

Think of it like playing mafia in a real life environment and someone pushing a lynch on you because they felt you moving during the night phase. It's about the same thing.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 08:28:55 pm
Thats an awful lot of Is in shocks message though, so perhaps ian was just blocked, in which case shock broke from our agreement that disruptors with the exception of warden should not use their abilities (he did either way actually if his message is to be trusted at all).
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 23, 2019, 08:30:28 pm
You all are actually so boring to read. I don't think shortening night phase is going to make that any more bearable. Let's speed things up a bit. I'm mind flayer. The person I blocked last night is hidden somewhere in this message. Have fun.
Why
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 08:36:53 pm
Bleh, of course it's going to be shock. Why am I not surprised.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 23, 2019, 08:39:33 pm
I argued for using the tool, which only harms mafia.

Discussing rules always happens outside of the context of the game.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 08:44:27 pm
I'll read everything in a bit. Currently busy with work.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13

(This is a rhetorical vote. I don't actually believe that Weebs should be lynched. Not enough evidence.)

Well, yeah. You gotta finish your meme to completion.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13

Will change the moment something interesting happens.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 08:47:38 pm
Oh this is super sketchy. Espi had options here.
He continues to use it without telling anyone. Thats real Mafia spirit. He uses a tool to his advantage until told otherwise.

The only thing this tool can do to rise suspicion is tell you if someone is sending a PM. So this doesnt role reveal meaning the only person this tool is harmful to is Mafia. The only people who wouldn't want this tool used is Mafia. So Espi asking in public is super weird. He couldve asked sub in private just as easy. But it sounds like he wants to tool banned. His excuse? The spirit of Mafia.
Damn good excuse tbh. HOWEVER, asking about its legality in public is still really weird. It doesnt sit right with me. Espi doesnt sit right with me overall tbh. Lemme break it down into pros and cons.

Not sure about any of this. If he was mafia, and wanted to use the tool to his advantage, wouldn't it have been the safer play to not post publicly, in order to not remind people/let people know that it exists? Or even just bring it directly to Sub? I don't see how mafia gains anything from such an elaborate metagaming gambit.

Also - sending a PM doesn't really role reveal at all, since many roles PM, and most of the people in this game have other forum responsibilities. I think reading into this too much at all is unproductive. Maybe even a diversion.

Quote
Pros if we lynch
Mafia Kill
No more owo posts

Cons
Possible civ kill tho i doubt it.

Pros outweigh the cons.

This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory. It feels like it's forcing a conclusion.

Basically, this whole post seems like it's pushing an agenda a little too hard.

Additionally:

You've already told the entire group, including the mafia, you have a role that targets. That's already pretty brazen of you.
That's really the bit the mafia care about when they decide who to kill - the role itself. The roles they hate the most all target, so you've basically just asked to be nightkilled at some point. Same goes for you too, Walks.


I want to reiterate the last part of this - MW also stated he used an ability. In my opinion, this is detrimental to town - we agreed not to use (most) offensive and defensive roles, so this narrows down your potential abilities, a piece of information that helps the mafia more right now. And furthermore, unlike iancu's statement, which we could potentially get information from immediately if we chose, there's no such potential benefit for town from MW's statement.

(aside: I don't think iancu should reveal specifics right away - it's just worth noting that does create a plan we could pursue if we desired)

So, we lynch Espithel.

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13

This accomplishes the following:

Most important, MW has voiced suspicion of him, creating a minor feud. By lynching one, we potentially gain information. I do want to point out, however, that there are four mafia - it would not be unwise for one of them to play very aggressive, potentially even bussing their own teammate to move suspicion away from themselves. This is a gambit that can win games, so Espi being mafia would not completely clear MW. But it does give us information to work with when analyzing future interactions, regardless.

The reason I pick Espi over MW is because it doubles as a petty lynch - in the early game, scum reads often fluctuate, like an earthquake chart. They're often very low or high based on minimal evidence, then switch to the other end quickly, etc, before stabilizing a couple rounds in. Acting on a petty lynch counteracts some of the bias created by early-game read fluctuations.

You all are actually so boring to read. I don't think shortening night phase is going to make that any more bearable. Let's speed things up a bit. I'm mind flayer. The person I blocked last night is hidden somewhere in this message. Have fun.

Anyone want to be in charge of this bullshit?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 23, 2019, 09:01:57 pm
Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian

He did not sign the petition. Obviously mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 23, 2019, 09:09:18 pm
Maybe he's claiming mafia70 Grabboid.


Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (1) - moehrpi


A bit too quiet, way too mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 09:18:24 pm
[2019-05-23 14:48:48] ddevans96: yeet
[2019-05-23 14:48:49] ddevans96: big post
[2019-05-23 14:51:20] Espithel: You couldn't've waited until after I finished work, could you
[2019-05-23 14:51:22] Espithel: >:(
[2019-05-23 14:51:30] ddevans96: haha owned
[2019-05-23 14:52:23] Espithel: >:(((((((((((((
[2019-05-23 14:52:32] ddevans96: just skim it
[2019-05-23 14:52:44] ddevans96: it basically tl;dr to 'I don't like MWs post, lynch Espi'
[2019-05-23 14:53:10] ddevans96: and then 'wtf is shock doing'
[2019-05-23 14:53:44] Espithel: I have
[2019-05-23 14:55:45] kaempfer13: id ont like what mws doing, better lynch espi
[2019-05-23 14:55:53] ddevans96: yes
[2019-05-23 14:56:33] ddevans96: I think MW is the 'obvious' lynch rn - that being said, I explained in the post why I strongly dislike going for the 'obvious' lynch [on d1]
[2019-05-23 14:56:47] kaempfer13: personally i dislike what shocks doing even more though
[2019-05-23 14:56:50] Espithel: Because you hate furries
[2019-05-23 14:57:06] ddevans96: shock is chaotic neutral
[2019-05-23 14:57:11] Ginyu: These posts start to look more like riddles than anything.
[2019-05-23 14:57:14] ddevans96: like a more insane justaburd
[2019-05-23 14:57:39] kaempfer13: so my incompetence vote would go to him atm, just dont want to jump backand forth constantly, so ill wait for the defense
[2019-05-23 14:57:40] ddevans96: I'm totally okay with lynching him early every game, just be aware that he's playing that way on purpose, it's not a scum tell
[2019-05-23 14:58:51] Espithel: What I will say about MW is, yeah, that was a stupid post of his
[2019-05-23 14:59:00] kaempfer13: i find it extremely unlikely that mw has a role that told him espi is mafia
[2019-05-23 14:59:00] Espithel: But he's at least furthering discussion
[2019-05-23 14:59:26] Espithel: Posting this in forum now.
[2019-05-23 14:59:31] ddevans96: yeah - if that was the case, he could lay low, and just say 'let's go with Link/dd's petty lynch'
[2019-05-23 14:59:48] kaempfer13: he mostly just voted espi because he was one of the 2 persons that werethrown shade at in espis rulequestionpost
[2019-05-23 15:00:09] Mobian: ‹@kaempfer13› This is always shock's go-to play style. It's annoying, but it's shock.
[2019-05-23 15:00:13] Calindu: I don't think shock posting that is a sign that he's mafia, as I've seen in the previous mafia, but that type of gameplay is kind of destructive and hurts the town way more than it helps it
[2019-05-23 15:00:54] ddevans96: agreed on both counts
[2019-05-23 15:01:06] kaempfer13: ‹@Mobian› yh, butif we have no tells getting rid of the chaff is better than killing someone actually helpfull to us
[2019-05-23 15:01:08] Mobian: ‹@Calindu› No kind of about it. The way I see it, we have 3 factions. Mafia, Town, and Shock.
[2019-05-23 15:01:44] iancudorinmarian: If shock blocked me I'm going to lynch him.
[2019-05-23 15:01:46] ddevans96: pretty much
[2019-05-23 15:01:51] kaempfer13: and since shock just plays that way either way he might just be mafia
[2019-05-23 15:02:16] Calindu: Yeah, I remember there used to be a role that wins if they get lynched, Shock plays like that
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 23, 2019, 09:21:52 pm
Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (1) - moehrpi


Yo, new house, 2 jobs, went to pub quiz last night, mate over to play magic tonight, got another mate coming for the bank holiday weekend. Just getting on before my bedtime on laptop.

All my posts so far have been by phone, and i hate typing by phone.

My vote is on MW because i agree with dd.  info from an early feud is interesting regardless of result. I'm voting for MW though out of teh two selfishly because i friggin love espi and i'm happy to see him back in community so don't want him lynched day 1
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 23, 2019, 09:25:18 pm
oh, re shock's playstyle, I kind of like it as i said last game, it's like a more on-topic Solaris. take it as face value. Interesting = fun, interesting =/= bad. if anythign interesting sparks conversation and conversation = good
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 09:27:32 pm
[13:59:48] ‹kaempfer13› he mostly just voted espi because he was one of the 2 persons that werethrown shade at in espis rulequestionpost

This is not true. Idc about him throwing shade in that post. Lynching someone Day 1 based on throwing minor shade is a terrible idea and i recognize it as so.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 09:36:41 pm
First off:

then theres espithels breakdown on how mafia is more likely to be protected, so chances are ian will either uncover the nightkill target or a mafia member with room for uncertainty ofc.

I would like to stress that I didn't say that the mafia is more likely to be protected. All I said is that it's a possibility; I actually think it's slightly less likely that Ian hit a mafia. I might be wrong.

So! Dwaddy Ewans. owo
Your argument's essentially that Scum!MW is trying to bus Scum!Espithel so that if one falls, the other one looks innocent.
You then want to lynch one of us to gain more information. You then decide to lynch me because you hate fun.

MW is acting like a novice mafia right now, so your logic works. Can't argue with that.

I'd like to poke you with two things, though.
Oh this is super sketchy. Espi had options here.
He continues to use it without telling anyone. Thats real Mafia spirit. He uses a tool to his advantage until told otherwise.

The only thing this tool can do to rise suspicion is tell you if someone is sending a PM. So this doesnt role reveal meaning the only person this tool is harmful to is Mafia. The only people who wouldn't want this tool used is Mafia. So Espi asking in public is super weird. He couldve asked sub in private just as easy. But it sounds like he wants to tool banned. His excuse? The spirit of Mafia.
Damn good excuse tbh. HOWEVER, asking about its legality in public is still really weird. It doesnt sit right with me. Espi doesnt sit right with me overall tbh. Lemme break it down into pros and cons.

Not sure about any of this. If he was mafia, and wanted to use the tool to his advantage, wouldn't it have been the safer play to not post publicly, in order to not remind people/let people know that it exists? Or even just bring it directly to Sub? I don't see how mafia gains anything from such an elaborate metagaming gambit.

Also - sending a PM doesn't really role reveal at all, since many roles PM, and most of the people in this game have other forum responsibilities. I think reading into this too much at all is unproductive. Maybe even a diversion.

Quote
Pros if we lynch
Mafia Kill
No more owo posts

Cons
Possible civ kill tho i doubt it.

Pros outweigh the cons.

This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory. It feels like it's forcing a conclusion.

What you have just posted is a lot less concise version of how I feel about MW's post. When I first saw it, I was really confused on how to tackle it because it was just so wrong, on so many fronts, as you've pointed out.

I thought there was a hidden agenda, honestly. However, as poorly made an argument it is, it was contributing to a conversation and I didn't want to discourage MW from further discussion by absolutely tearing into it. It doesn't matter what we're talking about, as long as we keep conversing.

So, instead of responding, I decided to brush it aside instead:
vore me daddy
Pros to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Mafia Kill
No more Vore

Cons to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Possible civ kill, although I doubt it.

The pros outweigh the cons.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel

I hope you see the parallel between the above post and yours: "This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory."

I'm bringing this up because I feel that if we were both scum, I would be expected to retaliate against him to make the bus seem more real. I haven't, and don't really intend to. It's what he'd want if he's scum.
I'll accept one of us being lynched, though, because the logic here is perfectly sound. I just don't feel it properly describes reality.

Secondly:
You've already told the entire group, including the mafia, you have a role that targets. That's already pretty brazen of you.
That's really the bit the mafia care about when they decide who to kill - the role itself. The roles they hate the most all target, so you've basically just asked to be nightkilled at some point. Same goes for you too, Walks.

I want to reiterate the last part of this - MW also stated he used an ability. In my opinion, this is detrimental to town - we agreed not to use (most) offensive and defensive roles, so this narrows down your potential abilities, a piece of information that helps the mafia more right now. And furthermore, unlike iancu's statement, which we could potentially get information from immediately if we chose, there's no such potential benefit for town from MW's statement.

(aside: I don't think iancu should reveal specifics right away - it's just worth noting that does create a plan we could pursue if we desired)

Much like how we asked if Ian should tell us who he targeted, is there anything to be gained in asking MW the same?
Unlike Ian, MW is currently under the lens of being mafia. That might change the dynamic.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 09:47:37 pm
Here is the thing tho. You got me trapped.

If i say i targeted you, then mafia is instantly going to assume the worst and conclude i am GN.

If i say i targeted ANYONE else other than you, then i get lynched because people will believe I am scumming you.

I will not reveal my target and i suggest ian does not either.

I think you know you got me trapped. I think you want me to reveal target so I get lynched or i get NK'd. There is not a single person i can say i targeted that will not get me killed.
Honestly, well played.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 23, 2019, 09:52:40 pm
Here is the thing tho. You got me trapped.

If i say i targeted you, then mafia is instantly going to assume the worst and conclude i am GN.

If i say i targeted ANYONE else other than you, then i get lynched because people will believe I am scumming you.

I will not reveal my target and i suggest ian does not either.

I think you know you got me trapped. I think you want me to reveal target so I get lynched or i get NK'd. There is not a single person i can say i targeted that will not get me killed.
Honestly, well played.

meh, getting nightkilled on the assumption of gn is less bad than a misslead lynch tbh
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 23, 2019, 10:08:23 pm
Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (1) - moehrpi

If you keep calling everyone daddy, we're going to have to bring out the belt.

More later.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 10:09:56 pm
K

Time to call everyone mommy instead

Wommy WinkWat Nu XwX
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 23, 2019, 10:13:40 pm
Can I vote twice?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 23, 2019, 10:15:41 pm
I dunno, are you Wyrm?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 10:18:59 pm
Your argument's essentially that Scum!MW is trying to bus Scum!Espithel so that if one falls, the other one looks innocent.
You then want to lynch one of us to gain more information. You then decide to lynch me because you hate fun.

I'm just noting that I think it's a possibility - I'm not currently making a strong push one way or the other regarding it.

Quote
I'd like to poke you with two things, though.

Oh this is super sketchy. Espi had options here.
He continues to use it without telling anyone. Thats real Mafia spirit. He uses a tool to his advantage until told otherwise.

The only thing this tool can do to rise suspicion is tell you if someone is sending a PM. So this doesnt role reveal meaning the only person this tool is harmful to is Mafia. The only people who wouldn't want this tool used is Mafia. So Espi asking in public is super weird. He couldve asked sub in private just as easy. But it sounds like he wants to tool banned. His excuse? The spirit of Mafia.
Damn good excuse tbh. HOWEVER, asking about its legality in public is still really weird. It doesnt sit right with me. Espi doesnt sit right with me overall tbh. Lemme break it down into pros and cons.

Not sure about any of this. If he was mafia, and wanted to use the tool to his advantage, wouldn't it have been the safer play to not post publicly, in order to not remind people/let people know that it exists? Or even just bring it directly to Sub? I don't see how mafia gains anything from such an elaborate metagaming gambit.

Also - sending a PM doesn't really role reveal at all, since many roles PM, and most of the people in this game have other forum responsibilities. I think reading into this too much at all is unproductive. Maybe even a diversion.

Quote
Pros if we lynch
Mafia Kill
No more owo posts

Cons
Possible civ kill tho i doubt it.

Pros outweigh the cons.

This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory. It feels like it's forcing a conclusion.

What you have just posted is a lot less concise version of how I feel about MW's post. When I first saw it, I was really confused on how to tackle it because it was just so wrong, on so many fronts, as you've pointed out.

I thought there was a hidden agenda, honestly. However, as poorly made an argument it is, it was contributing to a conversation and I didn't want to discourage MW from further discussion by absolutely tearing into it. It doesn't matter what we're talking about, as long as we keep conversing.

I agree with this - MW's posts have largely contributed to the game. However, my style is, and has always been, to provoke discussion by applying pressure asking difficult questions and dissecting specific posts. I found MW's posts to be a good way for me to initiate that kind of conversation in this game.

Quote
So, instead of responding, I decided to brush it aside instead:

vore me daddy
Pros to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Mafia Kill
No more Vore

Cons to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Possible civ kill, although I doubt it.

The pros outweigh the cons.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel

I hope you see the parallel between the above post and yours: "This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory."

Indeed - I interpreted the first part of your post, where you mimicked MW, as tongue-in-cheek and not serious.

Quote
I'm bringing this up because I feel that if we were both scum, I would be expected to retaliate against him to make the bus seem more real. I haven't, and don't really intend to. It's what he'd want if he's scum.
I'll accept one of us being lynched, though, because the logic here is perfectly sound. I just don't feel it properly describes reality.

I agree. It would not be a good gambit if there was not the illusion of fighting. That's why I'm not pushing this super hard - it would be an extremely fun and engaging scenario, and I'd love to see it, but I don't really think it's in play here.

Quote
Secondly:

You've already told the entire group, including the mafia, you have a role that targets. That's already pretty brazen of you.
That's really the bit the mafia care about when they decide who to kill - the role itself. The roles they hate the most all target, so you've basically just asked to be nightkilled at some point. Same goes for you too, Walks.

I want to reiterate the last part of this - MW also stated he used an ability. In my opinion, this is detrimental to town - we agreed not to use (most) offensive and defensive roles, so this narrows down your potential abilities, a piece of information that helps the mafia more right now. And furthermore, unlike iancu's statement, which we could potentially get information from immediately if we chose, there's no such potential benefit for town from MW's statement.

(aside: I don't think iancu should reveal specifics right away - it's just worth noting that does create a plan we could pursue if we desired)

Much like how we asked if Ian should tell us who he targeted, is there anything to be gained in asking MW the same?
Unlike Ian, MW is currently under the lens of being mafia. That might change the dynamic.

I don't currently believe town would gain anything from MW revealing anything right now, no.

Here is the thing tho. You got me trapped.

If i say i targeted you, then mafia is instantly going to assume the worst and conclude i am GN.

This only matters if Espi is indeed mafia. If he's town, then mafia can sit back, relax, and not kill either you or Espi until they absolutely need to - which is why one of you should be lynched as soon as possible.

If we lynch him and he's mafia, great! - you're probably GN. You're going to be an NK target immediately, but at least we know. If he flips town, we know you're not GN - an assumption that, in that scenario, the mafia can already safely make.

If we lynch you and you're town, we probably don't learn anything - Espi looks a tad more suspicious and that's it. If you're mafia, the inverse.

Quote
If i say i targeted ANYONE else other than you, then i get lynched because people will believe I am scumming you.

Right now, we don't trust either of you. Revealing your target really wouldn't move the needle one way or the other - truth be told, I think we're more likely to keep you alive in that situation. But...

Quote
I will not reveal my target and i suggest ian does not either.

...I still think this is the correct play, for the time being. Mafia doesn't really gain much by killing either of you right now, so you have time to share information - and even in situations that they do, town also benefits.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 10:32:37 pm
Yep. I agree/understand everything you've said, Evans.
Just one note:

Here is the thing tho. You got me trapped.

If i say i targeted you, then mafia is instantly going to assume the worst and conclude i am GN.

This only matters if Espi is indeed mafia. If he's town, then mafia can sit back, relax, and not kill either you or Espi until they absolutely need to - which is why one of you should be lynched as soon as possible.

If we lynch him and he's mafia, great! - you're probably GN. You're going to be an NK target immediately, but at least we know. If he flips town, we know you're not GN - an assumption that, in that scenario, the mafia can already safely make.

If we lynch you and you're town, we probably don't learn anything - Espi looks a tad more suspicious and that's it. If you're mafia, the inverse.

If he was the Nymph, he could just roleclaim right now and send me off to the grave. If he's "trapped" and going to die during the night, he might as well, right?

Because of that, even if I die and flip scum, I think the chances of MW being the nymph is practically 0.

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 10:47:16 pm
Probably, but not necessarily - if you are mafia, there's always a chance he's not GN and he just big brained, so even if he is GN, if we're on the verge on lynching you anyways, he shouldn't claim just so he can blend in with that possibility and potentially stay alive. But yeah, claiming is probably the best play.

He did come out of the gates way too aggressive to be a likely GN.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 23, 2019, 10:47:55 pm
The idea of using flimsy reasoning to vote on people was that the GN can vote on a mafia without having to roleclaim, then when the GN dies, we can parse back through their targets and identify players who are likely mafia.

If we treat every vote as a feud, and (incorrectly) postulate that every feud involves at least one mafia, we're going to end up with a lot of dead civs.

That being said, if we have to choose between Espi and MW to lynch, the right call is Espi, since MW could still be GN. But I think for now we should just let people vote without reading too much into it. The GN needs to have some degree of cover.

Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 23, 2019, 10:48:32 pm
Regarding shockcannon, I think he's a decent lynch target for today. Yes, he would probably play like this regardless of whether he's mafia or civ, but a random lynch on shock is no worse than a random lynch on anyone else. The utility of the lynch on him would be that he stops roleblocking people. There's a decent chance that our GA correctly identified the NK target (there are other ways for there to be no NK, but this is one of them) - what would have happened if shock had decided to roleblock the GA last night? Or the GN? This is not a factor I want to have to deal with.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 11:03:43 pm
The idea of using flimsy reasoning to vote on people was that the GN can vote on a mafia without having to roleclaim, then when the GN dies, we can parse back through their targets and identify players who are likely mafia.

If we treat every vote as a feud, and (incorrectly) postulate that every feud involves at least one mafia, we're going to end up with a lot of dead civs.

That being said, if we have to choose between Espi and MW to lynch, the right call is Espi, since MW could still be GN. But I think for now we should just let people vote without reading too much into it. The GN needs to have some degree of cover.

Agreed with all this - regardless, though, we do still need a lynch target. And while not every vote is a feud, the way MW pushed onto Espi hard and early, and then doubled down, definitely makes it feel like about as good of a starting point as we're going to get.

Why did you vote for jcj specifically, out of curiosity?

Regarding shockcannon, I think he's a decent lynch target for today. Yes, he would probably play like this regardless of whether he's mafia or civ, but a random lynch on shock is no worse than a random lynch on anyone else. The utility of the lynch on him would be that he stops roleblocking people. There's a decent chance that our GA correctly identified the NK target (there are other ways for there to be no NK, but this is one of them) - what would have happened if shock had decided to roleblock the GA last night? Or the GN? This is not a factor I want to have to deal with.

I'm totally okay with lynching shockcannon if that's what everyone else agrees with.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 23, 2019, 11:15:59 pm
Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon(1) - Calindu

I agree with Root about shockcannon, I'd rather not see abilities blocked randomly, as some of them are quite important. Moreover, unless he is mafia, the roles that he's blocking are fully random with the information we have at the moment.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 23, 2019, 11:31:21 pm
You all are actually so boring to read. I don't think shortening night phase is going to make that any more bearable. Let's speed things up a bit. I'm mind flayer. The person I blocked last night is hidden somewhere in this message. Have fun.

[16:25:02] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@shockcannon› even if it doesnt show right now, basically everyone wants to vote for you now

This is True. If i didnt feel so strongly about espi you would be my vote.

I quoted you because if you are mind flayer, then that means you can vote. And now that you are getting some negative attention, maybe now is the best time. The chat log will be posted soon but you are implying you have info. Like inside info. If you do, then maybe sharing some of that in your vote? So unless you are lying about your role (again) then i would like to see some info from you, instead of just hearing you say you have info.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 11:38:28 pm
Since shockcannon doesn't think we're smart enough to figure some things out on our own, here's a few things absolutely none of us could have ever considered:

- iancu's vote on dawn is notable
- shock may or may not have fakeclaimed Flayer
- if we lynch shock, we should pay attention to who wagons onto him

I'm letting someone else post the full chatlog, should be up soon - it's a spicy one.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 23, 2019, 11:40:43 pm
[00:04:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. WARNING: May contain traces of nuts.
[00:06:10] ‹shockcannon› the day I waste my ability on ian's lame face is the day I lose to RootRanger in trials
[00:06:13] ‹shockcannon› in other words, never
[00:06:46] ‹shockcannon› but am I mindgating?
[00:06:52] ‹shockcannon› lol, sometimes I laugh at my own words
[00:07:10] ‹shockcannon› also for reals, you guys are so boring to read
[00:07:25] ‹shockcannon› there's been maybe 3 posts out of the past 40 that actually offer anything useful
[00:07:55] ‹ddevans96› you aren't reading carefully enough
[00:08:04] ‹ddevans96› which 3, out of curiosity?
[00:08:26] ‹shockcannon› i mean
[00:08:32] ‹shockcannon› i don't really want to give away what I know
[00:08:35] ‹shockcannon› you could be mafia
[00:09:02] ‹ddevans96› uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lmao
[00:09:18] ‹shockcannon› eh screw it
[00:09:19] ‹ddevans96› offering opinions on other people's posts isn't 'giving away what you know'
[00:09:28] ‹shockcannon› masterwalks post that he used an ability last night
[00:09:30] ‹shockcannon› ians vote on dawn
[00:09:32] ‹shockcannon› and my post
[00:09:38] ‹shockcannon› the rest are honestly meaningless
[00:09:57] ‹ddevans96› so you think iancu's vote on dawn has significance?
[00:10:01] ‹shockcannon› i supposed you could call my post meaningless also
[00:10:18] ‹shockcannon› but my post caused certain reactions that I was looking for specifically
[00:10:24] ‹shockcannon› so, things are working out for me
[00:10:36] ‹shockcannon› will i get lynched before I can share, who knows and honestly don't really care too much
[00:10:41] ‹shockcannon› would be nice to live more than 2 days though
[00:10:50] ‹shockcannon› and yes, ian's vote on dawn is the only significant vote so far
[00:11:13] ‹ddevans96› I mean - if you want to live more than 2 days, you have to actually cooperate with town
[00:11:26] ‹ddevans96› which so far you've done the opposite
[00:11:31] ‹ddevans96› so idk what you're expecting
[00:11:43] ‹shockcannon› you mean adhere to town's meta-slave logic and reasoning that offers mafia all the room in the world to work with?
[00:11:44] ‹ddevans96› why do you find iancu's vote on dawn to matter?
[00:11:44] ‹shockcannon› yeah no
[00:11:58] ‹ddevans96› lol, you know fuck all if you think I'm a meta slave in mafia
[00:12:02] ‹shockcannon› i'd rather get lynched than follow along with town's useless logic that doesn't provide any real info
[00:12:17] ‹ddevans96› like honestly, your head is so far up your ass rn
[00:12:30] ‹shockcannon› this espithel masterwalks thing right now is a waste of our time
[00:12:42] ‹shockcannon› my head was far up my ass last game too
[00:12:49] ‹shockcannon› but i called out 2 mafia members on day 2
[00:12:51] ‹shockcannon› so
[00:12:57] ‹shockcannon› whatever
[00:13:00] ‹ddevans96› then actually post something useful, that gives us a different direction to go in
[00:13:08] ‹ddevans96› do you want us to vote on iancu? on dawn? what?
[00:13:14] ‹ddevans96› you have to actually communicate
[00:13:27] ‹shockcannon› anything i post now is going to get me lynched
[00:13:33] ‹shockcannon› i'm playing this game quiet for the first few days
[00:13:39] ‹shockcannon› if you want to lynch me for that, so be it
[00:13:40] ‹ddevans96› no, actually, it's going to do the opposite
[00:13:44] ‹ddevans96› talk, now. or my vote moves
[00:13:52] ‹shockcannon› do it then
[00:13:54] ‹shockcannon› move your vote
[00:14:44] ‹shockcannon› i'm not dumping info right before I die like last game though since that was so unpopular
[00:14:48] ‹shockcannon› so if i die today you'll lose my info
[00:15:13] ‹ddevans96› then don't die
[00:15:19] ‹ddevans96› cooperate, and you live. easy
[00:16:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Calindu in Forum Games. Every single time, someone has to go and say something like this.
[00:16:35] ‹ddevans96› if you think you have a better way to play this mafia than me, Root, Link, we'd love to hear it
[00:16:40] ‹Wyand› shock wrote more than 6 hours of chat
[00:16:58] ‹ddevans96› you did play a big role last game - doesn't matter if people didn't like it, sometimes that wins games
[00:17:08] ‹ddevans96› Submachine used to piss people off, but it won games
[00:17:35] ‹ddevans96› justaburd did it, I've done it, it happens. mafia is cutthroat
[00:17:56] ‹shockcannon› I will say
[00:18:10] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Justaburd talked?
[00:18:23] ‹shockcannon› keep a watch on how many people vote me now that Calindu has started the train
[00:18:42] ‹ddevans96› justa actually deserves most of the credit for the game I 'carried' him
[00:18:44] ‹shockcannon› it's going to offer a lot of information. (I won't say what information though, you'll have to figure that out for yourself)
[00:18:52] ‹ddevans96› dude was good at mafia, even if he didn't always play like it
[00:19:11] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Can mafia numbers stay Hugh for the next couple mafias
[00:19:17] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I’d like to play one once my exams are done
[00:19:35] ‹shockcannon› please join
[00:19:38] ‹shockcannon› I know you'd side with me
[00:19:47] ‹shockcannon› if we ever got mafia together it'd be game over
[00:20:09] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Boom boom
[00:20:26] ‹Calindu› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› The rules appear to be quite fun, and the timing for this mafia was also really good, maybe people stick around after that
[00:20:55] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Hopefully
[00:21:11] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› This is also why I kind of don’t want night phase to reduce to one day lol
[00:21:26] ‹Calindu› How so?
[00:21:27] ‹ddevans96› anyways - it's funny that you would say '[2019-05-23 17:18:23] ‹shockcannon› keep a watch on how many people vote me now that Calindu has started the train'
[00:21:31] ‹ddevans96› and not discuss specific people
[00:21:40] ‹Wyand›
(5d6) 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 9 ...
[00:21:45] ‹ddevans96› it's as if you expect specific people to vote on you
[00:21:50] ‹Wyand› good mafia night to all :P
[00:21:52] ‹Calindu› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Oh, to stall for exams to finish
[00:21:59] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Yhhh
[00:22:52] ‹ddevans96› regardless - you've said enough to fulfill your end of the deal
[00:23:30] ‹ddevans96› at least for me. hopefully you can manage to convince others
[00:23:32] ‹Calindu› Tbh, you should expect people to vote on you if you just disregard a plan that multiple players agreed to
[00:23:40] ‹moehrpi› Sticking around sure sounds like fun. But I feel a bit useless not providing any information. If this does change I might grow an appetite for it. :D
[00:24:54] ‹moehrpi› Also, I'd love to play mafia irl with shock. This should be fun especially for him as it is a lot faster.
[00:25:02] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@shockcannon› even if it doesnt show right now, basically everyone wants to vote for you now
[00:25:12] ‹ddevans96› I'll ask again - do you want us to vote for dawn or iancu?
[00:25:40] ‹shockcannon› ‹@kaempfer13› obviously
[00:25:46] ‹ddevans96› answering that question is really the only way you live
[00:25:46] ‹kaempfer13› well at this point its almos reverse psychology; only mafia wont care enough
[00:25:49] ‹shockcannon› I must say though
[00:26:05] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@moehrpi› what’s more important than providing info is reading posts and reading other people
[00:26:09] ‹shockcannon› I'm pretty shocked everyone just accepts that I'm mind flayer and that I did block someone lasst night
[00:26:15] ‹kaempfer13› but they ll probably still agree to fit in
[00:26:27] ‹ddevans96› are they accepting it? or ignoring it?
[00:26:29] ‹shockcannon› ‹@ddevans96› i dont think anyone needs to vote for either
[00:26:42] ‹ddevans96› okay. who do you want people to vote for?
[00:26:48] ‹shockcannon› it's just the only vote that actually gives us a read into anything at all
[00:27:03] ‹Linkcat› I hate when things happen while I'm asleep.
[00:27:05] ‹ddevans96› I agree, actually
[00:27:06] ‹shockcannon› I have no facts that point to mafia right now which is why I'm not voting
[00:27:10] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@shockcannon› whether you are a liar or a roleblocker you hurt town either way
[00:27:10] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Linkcat› sleep less
[00:27:26] ‹Linkcat› High level strat right there.
[00:27:44] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I hoped I'd do better. Sub was actually my first read last mafia when I didn't play even before the shock drama began. But I'm not getting a decisive feeling this time around yet.
[00:27:44] ‹Linkcat› ‹@shockcannon› I don't believe for a second that you're Mind Flayer lol.
[00:27:46] ‹ddevans96› then what lynch do you think would give us the most information?
[00:28:15] ‹Linkcat› It looks like like you intentionally picked the role that would make people want to lynch you the most.
[00:28:21] ‹ddevans96› ^
[00:28:29] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@moehrpi› it’s only day one lol
[00:28:35] ‹shockcannon› who we lynch doesn't really matter even if its me
[00:28:36] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› You’ll find stuff dw
[00:29:11] ‹shockcannon› If you're not too busy following meta-slave logic and using nooby town tactics, you would already be able to learn a lot just from how people have voted and what they've said
[00:29:11] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I told link last maf that mobian was mafia lel that one was screaming so much
[00:29:16] ‹ddevans96› alright - someone else can post chatlog this time
[00:29:28] ‹ddevans96› and you don't think we've done that?
[00:29:33] ‹Linkcat› Guys, the smart play is to just ignore everything shock says.
[00:29:43] ‹Linkcat› That's what I would have done the last mafia.
[00:29:49] ‹shockcannon› if you want me to be truthful, no i dont think anyone is really doing that
[00:30:00] ‹shockcannon› which is obvious from how people are voting
[00:30:02] ‹ddevans96› do you actually think we're that different from you? that we share everything that's going on in our heads?
[00:30:08] ‹Linkcat› At least, that's what I would have said we should do, but I doubt I would hav ebeen able to resist engaging with him.
[00:30:09] ‹Espithel› I think Shock is the vulture.
[00:30:12] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I'm confident I'll find strategies that I can bandwagon. :)
[00:30:23] ‹ddevans96› and, again - I do NOT follow the meta, lmao, so stop implying that
[00:30:31] ‹ddevans96› I've always played mafia my own way
[00:30:33] ‹shockcannon› i'm not talking about you with everything i say
[00:30:35] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› There’s a meta to mafia?
[00:31:11] ‹Espithel› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Yes, although instead of "which strategies are good", it's closer to "which strategies are expected"
[00:31:18] ‹ddevans96› you're lumping everyone but yourself into one group
[00:31:21] ‹ddevans96› so you kinda are
[00:31:32] ‹kaempfer13› chat moehrpi really wants to get lynched
[00:31:43] ‹Espithel› If this was anyone except shock, he'd be getting lynched pretty much instantly for throwing the game
[00:31:46] ‹Espithel› But it's shock
[00:31:48] ‹Espithel› So it's more okay
[00:32:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. DANGER ZONE!
[00:32:13] ‹shockcannon› i've shared more with you just now in chat than everyone else combined has in the forum thread
[00:32:25] ‹shockcannon› if you don't believe that, you should probably lynch me now
[00:32:40] ‹shockcannon› because no one will care what I have to say later then
[00:32:41] ‹ddevans96› you've shared nothing that none of us didn't figure out on our own, contrary to your belief
[00:33:07] ‹ddevans96› on the contrary, words matter more later in the game
[00:33:45] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› The way I phrased that, surely. I could have said: I don't have information I can share at this point and will do any town strategy to smoke out mafia.
[00:33:55] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› This time I’ll send subs my mafia choices end of each phase lel
[00:35:03] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@moehrpi› I mean youve (jokingly) claimed mafia every time I saw you
[00:35:15] ‹kaempfer13› sometimes harder than other times
[00:35:28] ‹MasterWalks› hes probably phoenix
[00:35:29] ‹kaempfer13› but only in chat
[00:35:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› hi im mafia. guess who i am
[00:36:10] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› I'd say I did once and that was way over the top.
[00:36:37] ‹moehrpi› I wasn't aware bandwagon is closely associated with mafia?!
[00:37:23] ‹kaempfer13› bandwaggoning means joining the pack justbecause a lot of people already did
[00:37:24] ‹moehrpi› I was thinking more like I'll follow, say, ian's plan to improve our odds.
[00:37:42] ‹Espithel› 'ey, is this convo over yet?
[00:37:48] ‹Espithel› I'd like to post it to blab eventually.
[00:37:53] ‹Espithel› to blab
[00:37:55] ‹Espithel› ¬_¬
[00:37:58] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› (I got bored that guest was me btw)
[00:37:58] ‹Espithel› To the forums
[00:38:38] ‹ddevans96› go for it
[00:38:46] ‹kaempfer13› just make it a 2parter

Will parse into nicer chunks if requested.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 23, 2019, 11:50:32 pm
Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon(2) - Calindu, shockcannon


Indulge me please. I want to see uninterrupted town strategy crush the 4 mafia scum this game. We all know, me included, that I can't play along nicely with town strategy.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 23, 2019, 11:53:33 pm
There's no point lynching shock this round, we gain nothing from it right now.

I maintain that we gain the most information by lynching Espi. If anyone has other alternatives, I'd like to discuss them.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 23, 2019, 11:56:17 pm
We could policy lynch shock for self-voting, but since it's shock I doubt it would be worth it.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 24, 2019, 12:02:46 am
Why did you vote for jcj specifically, out of curiosity?
Based on his vote. I think he should know that in a choice between MW and Espi, the right lynch is Espi.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 12:18:38 am
FGO Note: Sub already tried to shorten the night phase before the game started and I vetoed it. The reason is that since we have players from around the world with busy lives, a single back and forth can take more than 24 hours. This is especially important for the mafia team to decide the Nightkill and ability uses. Longer night phases also keep the game at a reasonable pace. Phases will stay at a 48 hour minimum.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 12:21:37 am
Why did you vote for jcj specifically, out of curiosity?
Based on his vote. I think he should know that in a choice between MW and Espi, the right lynch is Espi.

Then why not kaempf?
JCJ's excuse is that he likes and misses Espi. He even says Espi may or may not be town or whatever. JCJ is not voting seriously.
Kaempf votes me because he is sooo sure that Espi is town. Kaempf is voting seriously.
JCJ is not going to change his vote because its not a serious one. Kaempf literally said he would if he was swayed to another vote.

Either way, not really a fan of that strategy. I dont think a single vote on either of them will change their opinions because neither of them are sketchy or all that scummy. Your vote would be much more helpful on voting Espi, me, or shock.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 24, 2019, 12:26:01 am
If every player only voting on one of three different targets each round, it would be impossible for the GN to leave breadcrumbs and get away with it. If GN managed to find a mafia last round, they need to be able to layer in a vote on that player.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 12:27:36 am
More chat for the mafia gods:


first section is scarce in content, but including for context:

[2019-05-23 17:46:43] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@shockcannon› unless you can make a psychologist jealous with your mindreading abilities (in which case how have you not figured out not to get everyone to want to lynch you?) there is no way you could have anywhere near enough info now to go against agreed upon town strategy and make a difference in the day you have left to live
[2019-05-23 17:46:43] ‹Linkcat› Oh, the same one as you.
[2019-05-23 17:46:59] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› KONG*
[2019-05-23 17:47:06] ‹Espithel› Yes I have that curse too
[2019-05-23 17:47:09] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› When he was brandonC6 or something
[2019-05-23 17:47:13] ‹Espithel› Just not as extreme. Anymore. I hope.
[2019-05-23 17:47:37] ‹Linkcat› Now stop calling people weird things or I will actually lynch you.
[2019-05-23 17:47:39] ‹kaempfer13› paying attention to votes against you is useless if everyone votes you
[2019-05-23 17:47:48] ‹Linkcat› lmao
[2019-05-23 17:48:23] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@Espithel› daddy and mommy are old school. I suggest LOLLY LINKY
[2019-05-23 17:48:26] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› It has a ring to it
[2019-05-23 17:48:31] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› On another topic. I am missing a tournament trophy. I already have the code though.
[2019-05-23 17:48:35] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› lol you want a post?
[2019-05-23 17:48:37] ‹shockcannon› sure
[2019-05-23 17:48:37] ‹Calindu› We should pay attention to anyone who wagons late into the day tbh
[2019-05-23 17:48:41] ‹shockcannon› i'll indulge you
[2019-05-23 17:48:50] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@moehrpi› i dont think iam to anymore
[2019-05-23 17:48:51] ‹shockcannon› you won't like it though, but that shouldn't surprise you
[2019-05-23 17:48:54] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Calindu› agreed
[2019-05-23 17:49:03] ‹Linkcat› Fun fact: The largest vote train ever on a single person was led by me on Espithel with 27/30 votes.
[2019-05-23 17:49:41] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Linkcat› was he a mafia?
[2019-05-23 17:49:49] ‹Espithel› No
[2019-05-23 17:49:49] ‹Linkcat› No
[2019-05-23 17:49:54] ‹Espithel› ‹@Linkcat› I don't even complain
[2019-05-23 17:49:58] ‹MasterWalks› lol
[2019-05-23 17:50:03] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Linkcat was mafia :sillyspin:
[2019-05-23 17:50:09] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Jk jk idk
[2019-05-23 17:50:11] ‹Espithel› "We should lynch experienced people because they might be turnt into mafia"
[2019-05-23 17:50:14] ‹Espithel› :clap@
[2019-05-23 17:50:30] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› All right sorry to bother you. :p
[2019-05-23 17:50:31] ‹Linkcat› If anyone calls me lolly linky I will mod your posts.
[2019-05-23 17:50:39] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Shock, read that
[2019-05-23 17:50:41] ‹Espithel› Loli Lini uwu
[2019-05-23 17:50:49] ‹Linkcat› You deserved to die for that.
[2019-05-23 17:50:54] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› If you’re getting lynched it’s because they’re scared of your experience
[2019-05-23 17:51:06] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@Linkcat› I’m not in mafia can’t mod
[2019-05-23 17:51:28] ‹Espithel› ‹@Linkcat› If you link me for fursecution that's just proof you're scum
[2019-05-23 17:51:33] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Another alternative is
[2019-05-23 17:51:35] ‹Espithel› In both senses of the world
[2019-05-23 17:51:42] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› CUTIE CATTY
[2019-05-23 17:51:44] ‹Espithel› Let me be a pathetic shitstain in peace >:(
[2019-05-23 17:53:18] ‹Coffeeditto› hello
[2019-05-23 17:53:20] ‹shockcannon› you know
[2019-05-23 17:53:26] ‹Espithel› Hi!
[2019-05-23 17:53:35] ‹shockcannon› if day phases were shorter I may be able to stay silent long enough in chat and thread to go under the radar
[2019-05-23 17:53:36] ‹Linkcat› Ah, it was Mafia 49.
[2019-05-23 17:53:37] ‹shockcannon› but alas it's not
[2019-05-23 17:53:39] ‹shockcannon› and i get bored
[2019-05-23 17:53:40] ‹Linkcat› I was mafia that game.
[2019-05-23 17:53:47] ‹Espithel› only 49?
[2019-05-23 17:53:51] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I called it
[2019-05-23 17:53:53] ‹Espithel› I thought it was 57.
[2019-05-23 17:53:57] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I fing called it
[2019-05-23 17:54:10] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Without even reading the game
[2019-05-23 17:54:13] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I called it
[2019-05-23 17:54:47] ‹ddevans96› if you get bored after two days, you need more hobbies
[2019-05-23 17:55:03] ‹Coffeeditto› when I get bored in mafia, I just don't post
[2019-05-23 17:55:10] ‹Coffeeditto› which is the same as if I am not bored
[2019-05-23 17:55:14] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› i thought i wasnt going to like it
[2019-05-23 17:55:16] ‹Coffeeditto› very nice tactic
[2019-05-23 17:55:18] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› We're proud of you. Now all you need is a buff and you could actually inflict some damage.
[2019-05-23 17:55:18] ‹MasterWalks› that was lame.
[2019-05-23 17:55:23] ‹MasterWalks› and you say we are boring lmao

conversation gets much more dense here:

[2019-05-23 17:55:46] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› you know what
[2019-05-23 17:56:00] ‹shockcannon› i'll actually journal my present thoughts throughout this game
[2019-05-23 17:56:02] ‹ddevans96› yeah, come on, step up
[2019-05-23 17:56:09] ‹shockcannon› and share afterwards how noob you are
[2019-05-23 17:56:13] ‹ddevans96› yeah, perfect
[2019-05-23 17:56:36] ‹shockcannon› actually that may be too boring. You'll get a half promise on that happening
[2019-05-23 17:56:50] ‹MasterWalks› sure, make a diary.
[2019-05-23 17:56:50] ‹ddevans96› no, that'd be super exciting
[2019-05-23 17:56:53] ‹ddevans96› do it
[2019-05-23 17:57:19] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@shockcannon› everyone will know your future gameplan then!! They’ll copy it and it’ll become the meta plan’
[2019-05-23 17:57:24] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› *!
[2019-05-23 17:57:30] ‹ddevans96› lmao
[2019-05-23 17:57:42] ‹Linkcat› I agree, thoughts written down during the game are always fun to read.
[2019-05-23 17:57:48] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› :sillyspin:
[2019-05-23 17:58:01] ‹kaempfer13› I dont really like how dd is holding onto mws claim just because mw didnt back down from it (while providing no reason that wouldnt apply to everyone else or is just as likely to come from a towny) and linkcat joining in just because uwu
[2019-05-23 17:58:42] ‹ddevans96› elaborate
[2019-05-23 17:58:59] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@kaempfer13› Youre holding onto your vote on me for.... wait idk what for.
[2019-05-23 17:59:06] ‹shockcannon› "N0: MasterWalks F*cks up and reveals that he used an ability. Whatever, more info for me."
[2019-05-23 17:59:12] ‹Linkcat› It's Day 1, every vote is baseless.
[2019-05-23 17:59:33] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@MasterWalks› my alternative rn is shockcannon
[2019-05-23 18:00:07] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› The amount of chat that has happened already, no vote should be completely baseless :sillyspin:
[2019-05-23 18:00:20] ‹kaempfer13› both of you fucked up according to the official logically agreed upon town plan
[2019-05-23 18:00:27] ‹shockcannon› "N1: ddevans96 is big nub. Good chats in the chat though. put on a real show for all the silent noob hanging around. I got the responses out of the people I wanted. ddevans def town, too nub to be mafia with his chats. moehrpi enters chat and offers just enough for me to get a read. I may try to lynch that kid for beating me in WC. Would be worth. He got lucky af that I threw game 3"
[2019-05-23 18:00:45] ‹Linkcat› lmao
[2019-05-23 18:00:46] ‹ddevans96› true facts
[2019-05-23 18:01:33] ‹ddevans96› but honestly, MW doubling down establishes him as either aggro town or aggro mafia
[2019-05-23 18:01:38] ‹moehrpi› I'm laughing way too hard.
[2019-05-23 18:01:49] ‹kaempfer13› and there are enough people mentally ready to vote shock and apparently we are supposed to learn sth from those votes?
[2019-05-23 18:01:52] ‹Linkcat› I really doubt he's aggro mafia.
[2019-05-23 18:02:04] ‹ddevans96› if he's aggro mafia, then eventually he'll slip up and we'll know for sure, unless he plays perfectly (and that is EXTREMELY rare here, no shade)
[2019-05-23 18:02:16] ‹Linkcat› I think mafia MW would play more calculated.
[2019-05-23 18:02:17] ‹moehrpi› But as kae mentioned earlier I am one of those that won't see the conclusion of this game alive.
[2019-05-23 18:02:23] ‹ddevans96› and yeah, that's the less likely scenario, I agree
[2019-05-23 18:02:36] ‹Linkcat› Actually you have a good chance to live to the end.
[2019-05-23 18:02:43] ‹moehrpi› ...same as shock saw the end of g9 in the final.
[2019-05-23 18:02:46] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› tbh, Im only aggro rn. After tonight ill probably simmer down to d2d levels
[2019-05-23 18:02:53] ‹kaempfer13› i have not reembelished my vote
[2019-05-23 18:03:01] ‹ddevans96› fair - but regardless, for now, your play is aggro
[2019-05-23 18:03:22] ‹ddevans96› I still find the Espi/MW interactions to be the most intriguing things in the thread so far
[2019-05-23 18:04:08] ‹ddevans96› me maintaining my vote on Espi isn't really about them alone, though
[2019-05-23 18:04:39] ‹Linkcat› When discussion dies down I'll have to read through everything to form an opinion.
[2019-05-23 18:04:47] ‹ddevans96› more of a big picture thing. have to start somewhere, I like that spot
[2019-05-23 18:04:52] ‹moehrpi› I also can't tell why Root voted on JCJ. That might turn out interesting or bland, idk.
[2019-05-23 18:05:14] ‹kaempfer13› i strongly feel espi is town and too lazy to defend himself
[2019-05-23 18:05:16] ‹Linkcat› I always like my vote when it's on Espi.
[2019-05-23 18:05:25] ‹ddevans96› Root gave the answer I expected
[2019-05-23 18:05:33] ‹ddevans96› doesn't move the needle for me. it's the safe/smart answer
[2019-05-23 18:06:00] ‹kaempfer13› espi may be more likely to be mafia, but I think neither actually is
[2019-05-23 18:06:03] ‹ddevans96› he defended himself, just not in a super direct manner
[2019-05-23 18:06:08] ‹ddevans96› consistent with what he usually does
[2019-05-23 18:06:17] ‹Linkcat› ‹@moehrpi› Do you not understand his explanation?
[2019-05-23 18:06:41] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Linkcat› Oh, I got it.
[2019-05-23 18:06:41] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ahhhh
[2019-05-23 18:06:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› put me in this mafia already
[2019-05-23 18:06:49] ‹moehrpi› Was looking for an actual reason.
[2019-05-23 18:07:11] ‹moehrpi› It just confused me that he would vote alongside someone else.
[2019-05-23 18:07:59] ‹kaempfer13› jcj was quietish and jumped on an easy to support lynch
[2019-05-23 18:08:01] ‹moehrpi› I was uncomfortable with the responsibility that might put on me as I just hoped to get a response.
[2019-05-23 18:08:16] ‹moehrpi› Without actuallly doing anything.
[2019-05-23 18:08:20] ‹MasterWalks› I hope to god that shock isnt phoenix
[2019-05-23 18:08:30] ‹ddevans96› jcj could just be lurky town though
[2019-05-23 18:08:32] ‹MasterWalks› can you imagine a non-stop immortal shock in mafia?
[2019-05-23 18:08:36] ‹Linkcat› Lmao I hope to god he is.
[2019-05-23 18:08:40] ‹ddevans96› like I said, I put very little value on d1 interactions
[2019-05-23 18:08:45] ‹ddevans96› that'd be lit ngl
[2019-05-23 18:08:52] ‹Linkcat› JCJ seemed quiet but his explanation makes sense.
[2019-05-23 18:09:39] ‹moehrpi› But it did escape my mind that he already answered when I first mentioned it. That's why my comment is a bit off. :/
[2019-05-23 18:10:05] ‹kaempfer13› I cant imagine another reason why root would choose him
[2019-05-23 18:10:33] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› if phoenix is killed, they cant talk in thread tho
[2019-05-23 18:10:38] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› or was that rule changed
[2019-05-23 18:11:14] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› JCJ did respond before Root voted for him, though.
[2019-05-23 18:11:41] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› phoenix can talk but not vote
[2019-05-23 18:11:57] ‹MasterWalks› reverse from mafia 70
[2019-05-23 18:12:13] ‹kaempfer13› is he usually not an advocate for chaos?
[2019-05-23 18:12:54] ‹kaempfer13› i mean its widely agreed that chaos is bad for town, but it doesnt seem out of character for town jcj
[2019-05-23 18:13:12] ‹kaempfer13› certainly not mafia jcj ofc
[2019-05-23 18:13:32] ‹MasterWalks› town jcj shotgun blasts "scum" into the thread
[2019-05-23 18:13:59] ‹moehrpi› Here I am talking about Root and didn't even see his last post...
[2019-05-23 18:18:53] ‹shockcannon› for reals
[2019-05-23 18:19:01] ‹shockcannon› whats the point of GA if they can't protect GN
[2019-05-23 18:19:13] ‹shockcannon› actually the stupidest rule in the game
[2019-05-23 18:20:01] ‹Linkcat› JCJ will come back and say that you guys are reading too much into his vote and votes don't mean much on Day 1.
[2019-05-23 18:20:06] ‹Linkcat› Which I agree with.
[2019-05-23 18:21:00] ‹Linkcat› The point is that they can protect any other player.
[2019-05-23 18:21:14] ‹Linkcat› You shouldn't be relying on the cop to win the game.
[2019-05-23 18:22:07] ‹MasterWalks› thank you
[2019-05-23 18:22:16] ‹MasterWalks› thats exactly what my post says
[2019-05-23 18:22:16] ‹shockcannon› golden nymph should try harder to hide then
[2019-05-23 18:23:26] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@MasterWalks› nonseriousvotes are more likely to change
[2019-05-23 18:24:14] ‹kaempfer13› and the only reason i havent flipped to shock yet is because there is a faint promise of somehow gaining info from voting him
[2019-05-23 18:24:26] ‹MasterWalks› no theres not
[2019-05-23 18:24:43] ‹shockcannon› the real struggle of this game is holding back the urge to info bomb the thread, which will win the game but also make everyone hate you
[2019-05-23 18:24:57] ‹MasterWalks› what info could a mindflayer (if thats even true) have that no one else does?
[2019-05-23 18:25:17] ‹shockcannon› I'll try to survive a little longer this game
[2019-05-23 18:25:21] ‹shockcannon› expect an info bomb on day 3
[2019-05-23 18:25:38] ‹Linkcat› Looking forward to it.
[2019-05-23 18:25:45] ‹MasterWalks› yea might want to take some time to actually get some info
[2019-05-23 18:25:51] ‹ddevans96› no way he's actually Flayer
[2019-05-23 18:25:52] ‹moehrpi› Expect shosk to get NK'd N2. >.
[2019-05-23 18:25:54] ‹kaempfer13› and me voting him would reveal nothing but that i dont approve of people who dont give town reliable info/or actively roleblock them
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 12:35:44 am
Right, here's my fake GN breadcrumb.

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
RootRanger (1) - Linkcat
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 12:36:03 am
Okay, back to Espi.

Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 12:40:22 am
Why did you vote for jcj specifically, out of curiosity?
Based on his vote. I think he should know that in a choice between MW and Espi, the right lynch is Espi.

Can you elaborate on this? You seem to imply that there's no chance I can be the golden nymph.

Until you do, I'm going to create the greatest anime betrayal for self-preservation.

Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (3) - moehrpi, RootRanger, Espithel
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 12:45:02 am
Why did you choose JCJ out of the three people who had 2 votes?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 12:46:41 am
Because he likes me.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 12:48:54 am
Serious EBWOP:

I'm willing to change my vote for pretty obvious reasons. I'm pretty apathetic who dies, including myself.
I'm waiting for Root to respond before I vote seriously. I don't understand his position.

I don't like Shock. That's not a scumread.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 24, 2019, 12:50:43 am
Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (3) - moehrpi, RootRanger, Espithel
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo

This is more of a filler vote, until I get a better scum read.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 01:02:29 am
[01:59:24] ‹shockcannon› "I don't like Shock. That's not a scumread."
[01:59:29] ‹shockcannon› Espithel the tsundere
[01:59:31] ‹shockcannon› 0w0
[01:59:58] ‹shockcannon› vote me kiddo
[01:59:59] ‹shockcannon› you won't
[02:00:02] ‹Espithel› BAKA!
[02:00:12] ‹Espithel› Mate, if you want me to vote for you, I will
[02:00:34] ‹shockcannon› you only vote off feelings anyways
[02:00:35] ‹shockcannon› do it
[02:00:38] ‹shockcannon› you don't have the guts
[02:00:42] ‹Espithel› K
[02:00:55] ‹Espithel› I know you're trying to manipulate me into something. I'll take it.
[02:01:30] ‹shockcannon› nah this is for my own personal enjoyment

Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (3) - moehrpi, RootRanger,
shockcannon (3) - Calindu, shockcannon, Espithel
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 01:02:51 am
EBWOP:

Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (3) - Calindu, shockcannon, Espithel
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo


I fucked it up.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 24, 2019, 01:04:26 am
Chirp
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 01:13:03 am
I still really don't think lynching shock is the play this round. My choice is still Espi, but I would rather change my vote to MW or jcj if someone else joined me than lynch shock.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 01:16:51 am
I still really don't think lynching shock is the play this round. My choice is still Espi, but I would rather change my vote to MW or jcj if someone else joined me than lynch shock.

I'm game if you want. I'd imagine you'd want to lynch walks?

I think simply ignoring Shock is the best play here, yes. Might as well humour him for a bit while I wait for Root.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 01:17:40 am
I don't really like any of the trains tbh.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 24, 2019, 01:18:00 am
I'd probably remove my vote if it comes down to this. I don't think town gains anything from lynching Johnny.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 01:18:49 am
All fair. I'd be okay with waiting for Root.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 24, 2019, 01:21:10 am
I still really don't think lynching shock is the play this round. My choice is still Espi, but I would rather change my vote to MW or jcj if someone else joined me than lynch shock.

I personally don't get why lynching Espithel would be the better choice between him and MasterWalks. That's why I don't think lynching JCJ for this would be good either. To me, it seems like a 50/50, if not more inclined towards MasterWalks for having no base on his accusations. From his first post, I see that the whole 'who' function is the whole reason he even went with that, which I find pretty ridiculous.

I'll keep my vote on shockcannon for now, but I'm happy to change on Espithel if there's a good reason I can agree with.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 01:22:53 am
I don't really like any of the trains tbh.

Who would you pick, then?

I don't like any of these trains either.

Jcj is the most scummy, in my opinion (Yeah you like me I love you too this is mafia c'mon actually have a reason) out of the list, but that's a very, very weak scumread right now. So weak it'll probably fluctuate in an hour.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 01:25:45 am
I'll let you know when I get a chance to look through the thread.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 24, 2019, 01:31:43 am
The fact that you're all waiting on NO.obRanger is laughable at worst. Waiting to make a decision based on a random amount of information someone is choosing to give you is asking to lose. If you want my opinion, we should all really vote no lynch. You want to keep numbers as high as possible. Information gained from killing will already happen when mafia kills. Y'alls whole system of "town strategy" is to gather information during the night using the cover of numbers to keep the important roles hidden, and then reveal when there's another guaranteed info. Random lynching based off unfounded arguments and ridiculous reads on day 1 is literally the opposite of that. If you're going to play this boring meta "town-strategy" and lynch anyone who chooses not to adhere to that (idk maybe like me) then at least stick to your own freaking strategy for at least 1 day/night phase. Mafia's probably having a field day right now.

If you're really that keen on lynching someone I'm going to change my vote to someone I actually think is mafia later in the day. Feel free to join. Can't guarantee this vote will be 100% accurate. I'm less sure this game with more players and I need one more day/night to solidify some leads. Really should be voting no lynch for today. I didn't want to post this because I was having too much fun, but then I realized I also like winning and I'm really bad about staying quiet.

:time  :P
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 01:37:20 am
My base for targeting Espi is the 'who tool' yes. It goes a bit beyond that tho. Firstly, he has not defended himself much at all really, more just deflection. He has held majority of the votes this day and hasnt really addressed any of it.
i understand how the base is kinda base-less. He saw a tool that can be used against the spirit of mafia and inquired about it. I think this is how most people are looking at it right?
last mafia was my first mafia. If i had a question about rules, and i had a lot of them, I pm'd Link. Whether or not he is allowed to confirm that, whatever, its what i did. I did not post it publicly. This included things that would not give my role away.
Its the fact he publicly asked about a tool that can be used against mafia. Its the fact that even after applied pressure, he has not said much of anything about getting voted on.
I do not know Espi, and i have heard is a bit weird, but something is just NOT sitting right with me. Do i have more information on this that i do not want to share? Yes. Its more than a gut feeling but thats all i have to use to convince yall to vote for him.

Ill come out with my gameplan rn.
If i get majority vote and its close to deadline, I will role reveal and target reveal. HOPEFULLY that will convince you to vote him.
If he gets lynched, I go back to Mafia 70 MasterWalks and lay low, giving out what info i can gather using my role until i have enough info to help more.
I ask everyone who is sus of me to go back and check one of the chat logs. Whichever one Linkcat was talking about me. He knows me quite well (a little too well tbh, i havent talked to him on a personal level that much, kinda weird) and knows how i would play.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Coffeeditto on May 24, 2019, 01:39:37 am
I'm a little muffed by what is going on with the trusting root as town right now. I think that we are able to do this without the guidance of our unclear; however, that's not to say I scumread Root.

-

Shock is insane, but shock is town.
I was going to mention something about the possibility of well-orchestrated bussing between dd and shock, but I think shock is town so that's irrelevant now.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: mathman101 on May 24, 2019, 01:45:49 am


Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (3) - Calindu, shockcannon, Espithel
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo

I wanna throw some pressure on the one that chirps.
That's, and I dont really follow what the reasoning between all the other votes is. (I will try to read more thoughouly tonight when off phone and home at my laptop.)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 24, 2019, 01:51:48 am
Ch...chirp?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 01:51:56 am
Y'alls whole system of "town strategy" is to gather information during the night using the cover of numbers to keep the important roles hidden, and then reveal when there's another guaranteed info. Random lynching based off unfounded arguments and ridiculous reads on day 1 is literally the opposite of that. If you're going to play this boring meta "town-strategy" and lynch anyone who chooses not to adhere to that (idk maybe like me) then at least stick to your own freaking strategy for at least 1 day/night phase. Mafia's probably having a field day right now.

The decoy Golden strategy and making a foundation lynch on someone d1 are not mutually exclusive or mutually detrimental plans. Also, I'd argue that none of our current lynch options are truly on the table because of failure to follow 'the meta'.

Quote
If you're really that keen on lynching someone I'm going to change my vote to someone I actually think is mafia later in the day. Feel free to join. Can't guarantee this vote will be 100% accurate. I'm less sure this game with more players and I need one more day/night to solidify some leads. Really should be voting no lynch for today. I didn't want to post this because I was having too much fun, but then I realized I also like winning and I'm really bad about staying quiet.

This is a good plan. I'll definitely consider joining you if you follow through.

Firstly, he has not defended himself much at all really, more just deflection. He has held majority of the votes this day and hasnt really addressed any of it.
...
Its the fact that even after applied pressure, he has not said much of anything about getting voted on.

True, but sometimes hard defending is not the play - he posed a lot of questions to me after I added pressure, prodding my logic. I will concede he didn't respond much to you, however, which is certainly notable.

Quote
I do not know Espi, and i have heard is a bit weird, but something is just NOT sitting right with me. Do i have more information on this that i do not want to share? Yes. Its more than a gut feeling but thats all i have to use to convince yall to vote for him.

Ill come out with my gameplan rn.
If i get majority vote and its close to deadline, I will role reveal and target reveal. HOPEFULLY that will convince you to vote him.
If he gets lynched, I go back to Mafia 70 MasterWalks and lay low, giving out what info i can gather using my role until i have enough info to help more.
I ask everyone who is sus of me to go back and check one of the chat logs. Whichever one Linkcat was talking about me. He knows me quite well (a little too well tbh, i havent talked to him on a personal level that much, kinda weird) and knows how i would play.

Ooh, interesting.

If anyone's opposed to MW doing reveals if he's about to be lynched, I recommend you come forward now.

I'm a little muffed by what is going on with the trusting root as town right now. I think that we are able to do this without the guidance of our unclear; however, that's not to say I scumread Root.

It's not about trusting Root specifically, it's just that Root's vote on jcj changed the dynamic of the round, and so it makes sense to ask him to reevaluate his opinion. Of course, we should be asking that of everyone, but because of the jcj vote, I'm most interested in Root's take on the reformed situation.

Quote
I was going to mention something about the possibility of well-orchestrated bussing between dd and shock, but I think shock is town so that's irrelevant now.

What potential bussing are you thinking about?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 02:06:51 am
Firstly, he has not defended himself much at all really, more just deflection. He has held majority of the votes this day and hasnt really addressed any of it.
...
Its the fact that even after applied pressure, he has not said much of anything about getting voted on.

True, but sometimes hard defending is not the play - he posed a lot of questions to me after I added pressure, prodding my logic. I will concede he didn't respond much to you, however, which is certainly notable.

You said something worth responding to. Walks hasn't.
Maybe if he roleclaims? Even then, I doubt it. I feel like he's trying to bait me.

I'm sure Root will give me some meat when he returns, even if he does happen to be scum.




I'm also against lynching Walks. As... Stubborn as he is, he is my hardest townread. I'm feeling 85%+ he's town. Mafia do not tunnel as much as he is right now.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 24, 2019, 02:10:25 am
Ian, your face is lame but you're a genius.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 02:14:08 am
I'm also against lynching Walks. As... Stubborn as he is, he is my hardest townread. I'm feeling 85%+ he's town. Mafia do not tunnel as much as he is right now.

They can in four-mafia games, and/or games where there's a perceived talent advantage to mafia. What if the team (and just throwing out names of some experienced players, no scumreads and no shade if you aren't on this list) is, hypothetically, MW/Root/jcj/Link? I think it'd be a legitimate strategy for that team to have an aggro mafia.

But, regardless, I agree with you - I don't see MW as mafia here either.

Ian, your face is lame but you're a genius.

Translation*: dawn is mafia

*translation may not be 100% accurate
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 24, 2019, 02:20:52 am
"Revealing your info before you get lynched" is kind of like what Shock did in Mafia 70. Sure it worked, but it was somewhat of a coinflip. Obviously this game is different because gathering information is harder, but that hasn't stopped Shock so far from gathering as much information as he can.

I ask that he doesn't say anything too drastic (like saying X person is GN, Y person is Graboid, Z person is Phoenix), but saying stuff like "I know who the role of X belongs to, and I know that they used their ability for Y", which allows that role to be claimed later.

Regarding Espi vs MW, I don't personally find Espi's defence to be scummy at all, and I personally wouldn't vote for him today. I think we can use this argument to get more information from both parties if we leave everyone alive. Since both of them are under scope, we could potentially start using some abilities on them to see what can stick. Mafia Dragonfly would be bad for this plan. Town Queen would be pretty good to target either of them, Warden is terrible. Don't use ability on either target, Warden, else we should assume you as mafia and kill on sight. Flayer on Espi is up for discussion, and generally comes down to whether the Flayer in question thinks of Espi as mafia or not. I don't agree with Flayer MW. (Yes I am aware that Shock claimed Flayer, but that means next to nothing considering how he generally plays, not to mention the possibility of a second Flayer.) Buffs should probably not be used on either? But I think this is also up to the discretion of the people who use the abilities.

As per usual, we should consider protecting the identity of Graboid with a few non-votes. 13 people have voted so far, of the 19 people who started playing this game. I personally would like to see at least 4 people abstain.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 02:22:52 am
I'm also against lynching Walks. As... Stubborn as he is, he is my hardest townread. I'm feeling 85%+ he's town. Mafia do not tunnel as much as he is right now.

They can in four-mafia games, and/or games where there's a perceived talent advantage to mafia. What if the team (and just throwing out names of some experienced players, no scumreads and no shade if you aren't on this list) is, hypothetically, MW/Root/jcj/Link? I think it'd be a legitimate strategy for that team to have an aggro mafia.

But, regardless, I agree with you - I don't see MW as mafia here either.

Oh?
I'm not aware of aggro mafia strategies. Please elaborate.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 24, 2019, 02:29:00 am
I think this would come down to playing similarly to shock in Mafia 70 except you're actually mafia. This would probably work better if some aggro town were previously lynched, but they'd have to make sure they start becoming aggro at the same time as a townie.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 24, 2019, 02:31:16 am
Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo
Iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 24, 2019, 02:31:56 am
Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 24, 2019, 04:50:01 am
I really, really hate it when shock is the voice of reason, but he did have quite a few good points. Right now, I'm inclined to agree with him on keeping our numbers as high as possible. We don't have any solid intel on anybody yet, and I'd like to be sure when I sentence someone to death.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 05:04:58 am
The lynch is the town's most reliable source of intel, though. Since there wasn't a n0 NK, it's not the worst decision in the world - we aren't giving them two consecutive kills - but I don't really like the thought of it regardless.

If it's what people desire, go for it, I'm just reluctant.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 24, 2019, 05:59:43 am
I'd probably remove my vote if it comes down to this. I don't think town gains anything from lynching Johnny.
you trying to catch up before getting out of bed I need to get up now I only got as far as this one but I had to f****** comment that my name has no h in it  :D
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 24, 2019, 06:00:11 am
You = yo. Voice text
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 06:20:34 am
(https://imgur.com/7ggCflZ.png)



(https://png2.kisspng.com/sh/8d35aeac6fba6cd468de5f1864689b9e/L0KzQYm3VcI4N5xwf5H0aYP2gLBuTgRpcZ9wgdDwLXXwf7vwTgN1cZRwfeQ2dHjyhbjvlL1lcaRohARtLUXlQLK7hslmOZNoTaY8Lki8R4K7VMA6OWY3T6Y5MkO8SIK4U8gveJ9s/kisspng-thinking-emoji-sticker-thought-discord-5b0a4f9e1bc543.8971440915274023981138.png)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 24, 2019, 07:09:07 am
Skim caught up, at work now.

Unless exceptional circs, always better to lynch. The next death is 30% likely to be mafia. No lynch means next death is 0% mafia.

No nightkill could be viewed as exceptional,  i thought that last game, but i think i was wrong.

So far i think the scum reads on me are mostly activity based. Im busy and hate typing on phone, sorry. Should be able to devote some time in evenings next week from monday eve
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 24, 2019, 10:47:20 am
I'd probably remove my vote if it comes down to this. I don't think town gains anything from lynching Johnny.
you trying to catch up before getting out of bed I need to get up now I only got as far as this one but I had to f****** comment that my name has no h in it  :D

My apologies, I though Jonathan was long for John. Will edit.


Regarding shock's vote on iancu,
a) iancu could be anything he claimed: town, trying to gather information, post town strategy, roleblocked (more likely by mafia than town, imo)
b) iancu could be mafia: posting plans as not to appear suspicious, fakeclaiming getting roleblocked to throw shade and not having to give info, especially with shock blurting out random blocking nonsense.
c) also unlikely iancu is mafia and was blocked by town

I tend to believe a), ian is also a high-profile player, active and experienced, so a likely target. But both seem plausible. I'd like some more info from shock but we won't get it at this point.

Also, I don't really buy shock blocking roles. Which could be a lead to mafia's secondary roles. I might be a bit slow putting this one together so clearly. Has anyone any more information?
However, shock could be Warden and witnessed 'random' buffing of ian. Which is very scummy. Would ian say to have been blocked and try to buff himself? Potentially.

I count 19 roles for 18 people (not counting GN). Obviously, there's targetting and (mafia?) roleblocking. Not much to work out of this, tbh.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 24, 2019, 10:52:54 am
My apologies, I though Jonathan was long for John. Will edit.
No, no, no, don't edit please. Editing posts is against the rules in mafia. I hope I said this in time and you didn't edit it yet.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 24, 2019, 11:41:42 am
Lol dw moe, im only joking around  :P
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 24, 2019, 12:11:20 pm
how are we on page 19 already i havent read any of this
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 12:22:16 pm
Don't forget to post these, guys.

[17:25:54] ‹moehrpi› >.<
[17:26:02] ‹ddevans96› posting chat log, again
[17:26:06] ‹ddevans96› too much of this lol
[17:26:20] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› you underestimate me in everything
[17:26:34] ‹shockcannon› you're almost as funny as kaempf and ddevans
[17:26:59] ‹ddevans96› I know, I'm hilarious and charming
[17:27:02] ‹ddevans96› ty <3
[17:27:09] ‹shockcannon› btw
[17:27:13] ‹shockcannon› @Coffeeditto
[17:27:20] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› link first reks ian now he reks sub
[17:27:20] ‹shockcannon› you're lucky af I got lynched day 2
[17:27:28] ‹shockcannon› I was planning to eat you from n0
[17:27:37] ‹shockcannon› you really gave yourself away as mafia on day 1 though
[17:28:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. Always this post.
[17:28:55] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› he wasnt even mafia
[17:29:00] ‹kaempfer13› noone ever mentions my involvement when posting chatlog :D
[17:29:02] ‹MasterWalks› oh wait
[17:29:04] ‹MasterWalks› yea he was
[17:29:13] ‹MasterWalks› mb, i was thinking root
[17:29:15] ‹ddevans96› you initiated the conversation about me, tbf
[17:31:02] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› You gained so much info last game because you homie hopped everyone in PM's. Cant do that this round. I honestly dont think you will be able to come up with info by day 3 that we wouldnt already know. You could prove me wrong tho so we will see.
[17:31:46] ‹shockcannon› PMs were just to get people to talk
[17:31:58] ‹shockcannon› this game, everyone's already doing that because of increased player count
[17:32:05] ‹shockcannon› there's no need for PMs
[17:32:12] ‹kaempfer13› ok, perhaps my strategy of removing the people who seem to unwittingly help mafia isnt perfect
[17:32:32] ‹ddevans96› why use PMs to get people to talk when you can alternate between every technique in the book like I tried :silly:
[17:32:38] ‹Linkcat› Yeah, you never lynch someone you think is town.
[17:32:45] ‹ddevans96› (gotta give you credit, shock, you stick to your guns)
[17:32:48] ‹Linkcat› Always lynch who you think is mafia.
[17:33:32] ‹kaempfer13› but without nafialeads to go by i go for the nextbest thing
[17:34:15] ‹ddevans96› I'd rather lynch for information before lynching for rogue behavior
[17:34:20] ‹ddevans96› merits to both, that's just me
[17:35:07] ‹kaempfer13› and unless mw truly is gn i dont really see espi kill giveaway much either
[17:35:22] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› i'll say this only once
[17:35:27] ‹shockcannon› don't let mafia play you this game
[17:35:36] ‹kaempfer13› so what exactly happens when we lynch espi and heÜs town?
[17:35:38] ‹ddevans96› hm, I don't agree
[17:35:47] ‹ddevans96› I think MW being GN gives us the least information long term
[17:36:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. Less reading. More doing.
[17:36:13] ‹ddevans96› statistically, he probably is town. we don't have a better option, in that sense
[17:36:19] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› i learned my lesson last game
[17:36:42] ‹ddevans96› Espi was involved in, in my eyes, the first major event of the game - MW's vote on him
[17:36:54] ‹ddevans96› things like that start a chain reaction of interactions
[17:37:30] ‹kaempfer13› hm, but all of the reactions so far just directly go back to that vote
[17:37:36] ‹ddevans96› do they?
[17:37:46] ‹Coffeeditto› ‹@shockcannon› oh ok
[17:38:01] ‹Espithel› The first major event of the game was me owoing
[17:38:01] ‹kaempfer13› well linkcat doesnt like uwu
[17:38:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. Can you find Waldo?
[17:38:08] ‹Espithel› If I didn't you'd be lynching mk
[17:38:10] ‹Espithel› :^)
[17:38:10] ‹ddevans96› you can learn a lot from voting patterns
[17:38:27] ‹MasterWalks› I think insig can vouch that i dont like uwu either
[17:38:41] ‹shockcannon› want my two cents
[17:38:48] ‹ddevans96› and there were some offshoots of that conversation that were pretty interesting
[17:38:52] ‹ddevans96› it all ties together in the end
[17:38:56] ‹ddevans96› just a matter of figuring it out in time
[17:40:33] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› whats your two cents. enlighten us
[17:41:34] ‹shockcannon› my two cents
[17:41:40] ‹shockcannon› MW and esp are both town
[17:41:47] ‹shockcannon› but it really doesn't matter if we lynch either of them or not
[17:41:59] ‹Espithel› So, daddy shock
[17:42:00] ‹Espithel› owo
[17:42:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Good to the last word.
[17:42:03] ‹Espithel› who should we lynch?
[17:42:05] ‹ddevans96› they are probably both town, yes
[17:42:38] ‹shockcannon› fine
[17:42:39] ‹ddevans96› we already established that like two chat logs ago
[17:43:09] ‹shockcannon› i'll do something I really shouldn't do
[17:43:21] ‹shockcannon› before this day ends
[17:43:30] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› oh yeah, forgot to mention that I'm mafia
[17:43:35] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› everyone lynch me
[17:43:36] ‹shockcannon› i'll put an actual vote on something I think is pretty definitely mafia
[17:43:42] ‹shockcannon› *someone
[17:43:47] ‹shockcannon› feel free to join suit if you want
[17:43:50] ‹Linkcat› Oh, thanks Insig.
[17:44:01] ‹Linkcat› Can't believe you almost forgot.
[17:44:02] ‹ddevans96› hm, okay, fair play
[17:44:09] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› No problem
[17:44:33] ‹MasterWalks› insig would be a terrible phoenix so dont lynch him
[17:44:50] ‹ddevans96› btw - timer is on pg10
[17:52:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from InsignificantWeeaboo in Forum Games. Check it out!
[17:55:44] shockcannon joined.
[17:59:24] ‹shockcannon› "I don't like Shock. That's not a scumread."
[17:59:29] ‹shockcannon› Espithel the tsundere
[17:59:31] ‹shockcannon› 0w0
[17:59:58] ‹shockcannon› vote me kiddo
[17:59:59] ‹shockcannon› you won't
[18:00:02] ‹Espithel› BAKA!
[18:00:12] ‹Espithel› Mate, if you want me to vote for you, I will
[18:00:34] ‹shockcannon› you only vote off feelings anyways
[18:00:35] ‹shockcannon› do it
[18:00:38] ‹shockcannon› you don't have the guts
[18:00:42] ‹Espithel› K
[18:00:55] ‹Espithel› I know you're trying to manipulate me into something. I'll take it.
[18:01:30] ‹shockcannon› nah this is for my own personal enjoyment
[18:01:40] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Shockcannon the Justaburd reincarnation
[18:01:45] ‹MasterWalks› Hey Linkcat. Is it still a thing to keep posting to extend a deadline?
[18:01:52] ‹Espithel› I enjoy being manipulated and abused
[18:02:00] ‹Linkcat› I never got to play with justa.
[18:02:02] ‹Espithel› For the enjoyment of others
[18:02:03] ‹Linkcat› Yes.
[18:02:16] ‹MasterWalks› So can phoenix do that after they die?
[18:02:30] ‹Linkcat› Only votes extend.
[18:02:44] ‹MasterWalks› ohhhh that makes more sense
[18:02:47] ‹MasterWalks› thnks
[18:04:01] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I did, but I was new and didn't know any better
[18:04:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Oh, what a read!
[18:04:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Hey you know what would be fun
[18:05:22] ‹shockcannon› if i shared coffeeditto's primary role?
[18:05:54] ‹ddevans96› it's either false god or elemental
[18:05:57] ‹ddevans96› easy
[18:06:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from dawn to dusk in Forum Games. It feels like I'm stuck in a loop...
[18:08:04] ‹Linkcat› Which one though?
[18:08:09] ‹Linkcat› I would like to know.
[18:08:14] ‹Espithel› You forgot the third possibility.
[18:08:16] ‹Espithel› Sub's bastard.
[18:08:46] ‹ddevans96› I mean, true, that is a possibility
[18:08:50] ‹shockcannon› oh shizzle
[18:08:58] ‹shockcannon› i missed maybe the most important post so far
[18:09:00] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm down for a bastard mafia
[18:09:00] ‹moehrpi› ‹@shockcannon› Save it for day 3.
[18:09:06] ‹shockcannon› I can't believe I never read that
[18:09:20] ‹shockcannon› looks like 4 relevant posts now
[18:09:36] ‹ddevans96› which one?
[18:09:45] ‹shockcannon› going to have to reevaulate some stuff now
[18:09:53] ‹shockcannon› not telling
[18:10:05] ‹ddevans96› you told us the first three, what makes this one so special?
[18:10:18] ‹MasterWalks› It has to be d2d's post rolerevealing as phoenix or vulture
[18:10:37] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› what were the first 3?
[18:11:14] ‹ddevans96› iancu's vote on dawn, your statement that you used an ability, and his post claiming Flayer
[18:11:26] ‹ddevans96› (which he has since basically said is a fakeclaim)
[18:12:01] ‹MasterWalks› shock needs to reevaluate this whole thing if he thinks any of those hold some secret meaning
[18:12:01] ‹shockcannon› i never said it was a fakeclaim
[18:12:03] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@MasterWalks› na dude I'm a bird lol
[18:12:12] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Chirp chirrup
[18:12:32] ‹MasterWalks› right. So is a Phoenix and a Vulture
[18:12:54] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Also yo ian voted for me I gotta catch up
[18:13:06] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@MasterWalks› Na a Phoenix is a Phoenix and a Vulture is a Vulture
[18:13:10] ‹shockcannon› chirp is def fate egg you noob
[18:13:13] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm a bird
[18:14:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. It's okay, I guess.
[18:20:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. Be sure to give them a raise!
[18:20:40] ‹moehrpi› I expect two unmasked mafia when I come back. Goodnight!
[18:20:48] ‹moehrpi› toodeloo
[18:20:49] ‹Espithel› We'll try!
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 24, 2019, 12:26:00 pm
no context: shock will lose.
i will be informed tomorrow
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 24, 2019, 01:25:20 pm
Okay, lets add it up:

Espithel vs. MasterWalks was basically a claim with no real evidence, mostly to provoke a statement. However, as there was nothing really in the first place, Espi couldn't really defend himself. In the meantime, MW claims he knows more, which could be a good first lead even if he is lying.

Now, the problem is (from what I read) bussing getting rather popular, so even if Espi is mafia, we cannot really trust MW still. We wouldn't gain any real information, but a dead mafia. Great outcome. However, if Espi is town, we have a dead town and MW looks shady, so some information at least. As MW is on the lynch train as well, claiming to know more might also simply be a lie to defend himself. Also, checking through the ability list, I cannot really see any ability except for Golden Nymph that could give him even a tiny lead after just one night. As we agreed for Golden Nymph to not come out too early, I highly doubt he is one, or he isn't following our concept, or he is an aggressive mafia - all of which does not help us.

If there is any additional information in the chatlogs, please post them, because I couldn't bother reading through such an amount of text (I read the entire topic, however). I will hold my vote back in the meantime to cover burrowed players, which I think is a good idea. I am overall leaning to kill either Espi or MW though.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 24, 2019, 02:34:48 pm
[05:11:36] immortal_feud joined.
[05:11:39] ‹immortal_feud› someone help me
[05:11:47] ‹immortal_feud› whats the next deadlinefor mafia
[05:12:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from immortal feud in Forum Games. Save this for bedtime reading.
[05:12:03] ‹Linkcat› About 30 hours.
[05:12:07] ‹Linkcat› It's on page 10.
[05:13:09] ‹immortal_feud› hmm
[05:13:20] ‹immortal_feud› w/o giving away my role
[05:13:27] ‹immortal_feud› which i also dont know
[05:13:40] ‹immortal_feud› what do i need to have done in 30 hrs time?
[05:15:06] ‹immortal_feud› it has been a busy week for me
[05:15:26] ‹immortal_feud› next week is also busy asf but then i canput more time into stuff
[05:17:12] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@immortal_feud› Decide if you want to vote for any of the people who are currently getting voted for
[05:17:25] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Or you could also not vote and protect Graboid
[05:17:50] ‹immortal_feud› wait what role do people think i am?
[05:20:37] Generation_G34 left.
[05:20:43] Guest-GiantFrog-c080b joined.
[05:21:08] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@immortal_feud› Afaik? They don
[05:21:14] ‹dawn_to_dusk› 't
[05:21:28] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But if you haven't voted, neither have 5 other people
[05:21:32] ‹immortal_feud› ok nice that makes all of us
[05:21:45] ‹immortal_feud› will sort it out tomorrow
[05:21:49] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If everyone votes, then everyone knows who the Graboid is because Graboid can't vote
[05:22:18] ‹immortal_feud› oh? no not voting if you can vote is kina a tactic
[05:22:23] ‹immortal_feud› so*
[05:23:04] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› (6d10) 2 + 5 + 5 + 3 + 6 + 6 = 27 ...
[05:24:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. But did the game get updated yet?
[05:25:02] Guest-GiantFrog-c080b left.
[05:25:15] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Yeah it can be
[05:25:46] ‹Linkcat› I would recommend you vote for whoever you think is mafia.
[05:26:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from immortal feud in Forum Games. Post of the day, for sure.
[05:26:08] ‹Linkcat› Especially if that happens to be the same person that I think is mafia.
[05:26:17] ‹Linkcat› Which I should probably figure out now.
[05:26:28] ‹Linkcat› But it's 5:30 AM and I want to sleep.

Now that I've finally had a chance to take a closer look at the thread, we've reached that part of Day 1 where I stop voting randomly and find an actual scumread. There's more stuff worth responding to, but these are the most important.  Here we go.

First off, the idea that "town agreed to not roleblock" is silly. A majority advised against it, a minority was in favor of it, but these are just individual opinions, not a democratic vote or a binding contract. Each player makes their own decisions about when and how to use their role.

Always lynch Day 1.

Espi bringing up /who is obviously just taking something meta that was not known to everyone and making it known to everyone. This is always good for the game and you can't really read him one way or the other for it.

I disagree that lynching one of Espi/MW will give us any information. Espi always does weird shit as town or mafia so lynching him won't give us anything useful. MW thought that something weird that Espi did was weird and got on his case. He seems pretty town to me, and lynching him will just confirm that he was a town that pushed on something weird. Not really valuable information. I don't see why dd even calls this a feud, since Espi hasn't even given a proper response to MW.

Shock is intentionally being even more inflammatory than normal, like with his obvious lie about being Flayer, and is probably town again. I would expect a different style of chaotic play from him as mafia.

Revealing when you're the leading lynch at EOD is almost always good if you have information to share.

I really don't like the way dd focused the thread on Espi/MW. Instead of putting down a vote like normal, he frames it as an option between two people, which makes it fairly likely that one of those two options will be lynched at the end of the day, especially when one of them is Espi, who has always been easy to lynch. As mafia, this is a great strategy for controlling the lynch and making sure it lands on a town, since it's easy for a mafia to get lynched on Day 1 with all the random votes. And since he's only doing this for "information", he won't even get a bad look for it. Right now this is where I want to lynch.

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - InsignificantWeeaboo
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (1) - Linkcat

Other people that jump out to me are Coffee for being quiet, kaempfer for not playing how I expected him to, and Root for giving me weird vibes.

Also, I caught a firefly.

Did you hurt it?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 24, 2019, 02:40:26 pm
Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo

Now that I look at it, it does seem weird how dd emphasizes Espi and MW as the only options for lynching...
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 24, 2019, 03:04:34 pm
I still really don't think lynching shock is the play this round. My choice is still Espi, but I would rather change my vote to MW or jcj if someone else joined me than lynch shock.

The question I now ask myself is: how useful/irrelevant is shock for town, one who does not necessarily conform to town strategies.

Above quote shows dd apparently is fine with lynching JCJ, instead of focussing on Espi/MW, but then again I don't see the benefit of that. It does not provide anything better than lynching shock?! It might be a bit scummy.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 24, 2019, 03:09:02 pm
EBWOP

I still really don't think lynching shock is the play this round. My choice is still Espi, but I would rather change my vote to MW or jcj if someone else joined me than lynch shock.

The question I now ask myself is: how useful/irrelevant is shock for mafia, one who does not necessarily conform to town strategies.

Above quote shows dd apparently is fine with lynching JCJ, instead of focussing on Espi/MW, but then again I don't see the benefit of that. It does not provide anything better than lynching shock?! It might be a bit scummy.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 24, 2019, 03:53:28 pm
I was doing some random reflections and thoughts just for fun and I thought about what would happen if I were golden nymph. Obviously I wouldn't follow expectations of laying low and hiding in the shadows hoping not to get randomly caught. But I would also know that my unexpected play is the expected play in the eyes of the mafia. Yet, they would expect that play to deviate slightly if I were GN. But if I could mimic my "normal," non-GN townie, crazy playstyle, what would happen? Maybe it would look like me throwing out an early role claim even though that was specifically advised against. Maybe that would look like me coming close to bursting out but holding it in enough as to not completely die. Maybe that would look like me getting enough town suspicion that mafia would never even think to kill me because I "unwittingly help mafia" and I am "chaotic" and I offer nothing of value to the town. Maybe I would even throw out a :time mark at the end of one of my posts early on in the game seemingly as a joke after what happened in mafia 70 but as a way for town to catch on to me, because only shock would actually be stupid enough to post a :time mark and really mean it. Maybe I would even reveal the inner workings behind my ideas and strategies because that's the same way I mindgate in elements the game and it's never failed before?

I had another thought. What would I do if I wanted to help protect the person I knew was golden nymph? Would I pretend to be golden nymph to make mafia waste precious resources on someone who might have the most useless role in the game? How would I get mafia to actually believe me and waste time killing me? How would I do all this without getting lynched, because then mafia wouldn't have to waste any resources on me?

Anyways, all just fun thought experiments. Was I planning to share this from the start? Uh, obviously not. I speed-built this post.

:water:aether
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 24, 2019, 04:57:20 pm
I don't have any reads atm, but I firmly believe we shouldn't "no lynch".

Also, 48 hours night phases is super lame.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 24, 2019, 05:53:42 pm
Quote from: Espithel
Can you elaborate on this? You seem to imply that there's no chance I can be the golden nymph.
[/quote
The odds of you being GN are the same 1-in-19 as they are for anyone else.

The odds of MW being GN are a lot higher because he made a fairly bold claim of someone being scummy. It could be that this is just a decoy breadcrumb that he's putting too much effort into justifying, or he's reading too much into insignificant details, but otherwise it means he's GN and has found a mafia. I think that option is fairly plausible.

So, between you and MW (again, this is still a dichotomy I disagree with), I think you're the better lynch candidate.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 24, 2019, 05:54:15 pm
Oof, posting from my phone and messed up the quote rip
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 06:13:54 pm

Other people that jump out to me are Coffee for being quiet, kaempfer for not playing how I expected him to, and Root for giving me weird vibes.


Could you elaborate on this a bit? To me, kaempfer is acting like his normal self.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 24, 2019, 06:20:55 pm
Quote from: Linkcat
The odds of you being GN are the same 1-in-19 as they are for anyone else.

The odds of MW being GN are a lot higher because he made a fairly bold claim of someone being scummy.

That's not how probabilities work, Linkcat. If the odds of MW being GN are higher than 1/19, the the odds of everyone else being GN are lower than 1/19.

Linkcat is scum confirmed, trying to sway us by pulling numbers out of his ass.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 06:21:55 pm
Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, MasterWalks

I change my vote due to Links experience, but Espi, dont think you are off yet.

I BEG that someone roleblock Espi. Please.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 24, 2019, 06:41:37 pm
It is true that in games that I am confident in my skills at, I usually have a lot more laidback playstyle. TBH I've come to realize that lynching people on the base of their actions not helping town, when the reason seems to be incompetence or a plain missunderstanding is actually a mistake. The actual reason for that was not immediately intuitive to me though and I only realized today why not only the people I am directly targeting but also people who are definitely more experienced than me disagreed with me.
Assuming every towny lynched people who deviate from the gameplan for reasons that are perfectly in line with their character (and thus more likely than not town if thats the only lead), mafia will never have to bother much with lynches and fit right in with no information gained for us during the day phase.

I will act not so rash in the future anymore and also try to refrain a bit more from discussion that doesnt help finding leads, even if it means having to accept that some of our allies either actively choose (for the fun factor or due to thinking they know better) to play suboptimally. After all it too seems that I aint quite got the hang of this.

So for now I will wait for more information to make a move. Which ironically means my vote on mw remains for a while even though I admitted its likely a mistake :P

As for why I quite strongly believe espi to be town or at least mws claim to be completely baseless, even though he clearly feels strongly about it: Similiar to DC and somewhat shock (although espi does strike me as better mafia player than either) simply has an irritating personality that most of us got used to, but mw clearly hasnt. Everything espi said (even if some of it is controversial) seems perfectly sound from townperspective to me and he definitely helps furthering discussion (towns primary weapon!) and he has experience (at least by virtue of sheer number of games played). If he is town, which -statistically speaking- he is, I would not want to lose him.

And yh, I too am curious about dd feeling so strongly about mw vs espi, as it seems to completely hinge on him believing mw to either be gn or mafia. Otherwise we gain no info whatsoever from espi flipping sth and as other people pointed out even if espi flips mafia it doesnt really tell much.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 07:11:35 pm
Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo,
kaempfer13(1) - MasterWalks

You have defended Espi as town more than anyone else. Everyone else just thinks if Espi is mafia, lynching him gains no info. I agree kinda. But you seem to have so much confidence that he is. With PM's banned and so little info, how are you so sure? I can see what Linkcat is saying now.
My hypothesis? You are mafia and you are defending another mafia. Other than that, you have role checked him and found he has an important role. If it's the latter, than i will change my vote again.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 24, 2019, 07:48:56 pm
I'll attempt to make sense of your post, because I'm having a hard time really.

You have defended Espi as town more than anyone else.

I believe kaempfer defended Espithel because as he said, the accusations appear to be baseless. I believe the same thing, You are probably giving too much thought to little things, because hardly any discussion occurred before you wanted that lynch.

Everyone else just thinks if Espi is mafia

I hardly believe everyone else thinks Espithel is mafia.

lynching him gains no info. I agree kinda.

I agree on this, unless Espithel is mafia, lynching him still leaves a big question mark on top of your head. The same can be said about lynching you.

But you seem to have so much confidence that he is. With PM's banned and so little info, how are you so sure?

Now you are contradicting yourself, one second ago kaempfer was defending Espithel, now he believe he's mafia?

I can see what Linkcat is saying now.

I don't really get what part of Linkcat's post you are referring to.

Also, I agree with the fact that ddevans appears to be pushing a lynch between you two too hard, so I'm moving my vote accordingly.

Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (1) - Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu
kaempfer13(1) - MasterWalks
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 07:56:02 pm
I'll attempt to make sense of your post, because I'm having a hard time really.

You have defended Espi as town more than anyone else.

I believe kaempfer defended Espithel because as he said, the accusations appear to be baseless. I believe the same thing, You are probably giving too much thought to little things, because hardly any discussion occurred before you wanted that lynch.

Everyone else just thinks if Espi is mafia

I hardly believe everyone else thinks Espithel is mafia.

This was totally taken out of context wtf

lynching him gains no info. I agree kinda.

I agree on this, unless Espithel is mafia, lynching him still leaves a big question mark on top of your head. The same can be said about lynching you.

But you seem to have so much confidence that he is. With PM's banned and so little info, how are you so sure?

Now you are contradicting yourself, one second ago kaempfer was defending Espithel, now he believe he's mafia?

Um, wat? This what hes doing as a mafia, Of course hes going to defend him as a town if they are both mafia. I reread my post and its written correctly.

I can see what Linkcat is saying now.

I don't really get what part of Linkcat's post you are referring to.

About kaempfer acting strange.

Also, I agree with the fact that ddevans appears to be pushing a lynch between you two too hard, so I'm moving my vote accordingly.

Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (1) - Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu
kaempfer13(1) - MasterWalks

(My color for text means nothing. Pink just stands out and is fairly neutral)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 08:03:07 pm
Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (1) - Calindu
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Espithel
Kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks

I'm not persuaded he's scum, but he's a much better lynch than everyone else here. This vote is subject to change depending on how evans responds. I don't like lynching people who start the conversation on a day - that's not something you want to punish - but it is the best option of the group.

My hypothesis? You [Kaempf] are mafia and you are defending another mafia [Espithel]. Other than that, you have role checked him and found he has an important role. If it's the latter, than i will change my vote again.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413864880496443394/581568021554921494/unknown.png)

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 24, 2019, 08:03:51 pm
I'm still on MW. Sadly not had time to fully keep up but every time he talks i want him dead. *shrug*

The reason why lynching 'bad' town is bad is that when people play badly it sparks conversation. It sparks drama. Drama makes people make mistakes in their game. I kinda love the way shock and espi play.

(not related to the game, i really like the makeup of this mafia. we have new players, experienced players, logical ones, chaotic ones. People thinking differently to you is always a good thing. Sparks conversation.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 08:06:11 pm
EBWOP:

A chat log. Calindu did a derp.

[20:50:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Calindu in Forum Games. Posted like a peacock.
[20:56:59] ‹Espithel› You missed an important "if" there, Cal.
[20:57:34] ‹Calindu› ‹@Espithel› Where exactly?
[20:57:41] ‹Calindu› I might have worded it poorly

[20:58:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. It's okay, I guess.

[20:58:15] ‹MasterWalks› I colored it red
[20:58:29] ‹Calindu› I swear it didn't have if when I first read it
[20:58:56] ‹Calindu› There's no way I missed that, because that's what prompted me to post too
[20:59:01] ‹vagman13› when in doubt,always lynch ian  :whistling:
[20:59:04] ‹MasterWalks› I didnt edit it lol
[20:59:10] ‹Calindu› Ah, I'm just blind
[20:59:19] ‹Calindu› I even have it in my post
[20:59:21] ‹PlayerOa› Hey all

[20:59:26] ‹Espithel› Yeah, that could've been structured better on walks end. His argument is essentially "People think I'm townish, and Kaempf is defending me well and beyond what is necessary."
[20:59:48] ‹Espithel› Do correct me if I'm wrong, Walks. Misrepresentation is a crime.
[21:00:26] ‹Calindu› Hey Oa
[21:01:05] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I believe with the if there it makes more sense, but all my other points still stand
[21:01:06] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Espithel› probably could be structured better but what am i misrepresenting?
[21:01:42] ‹Espithel› You're not misrepresenting anything. I'm telling you to correct me if I just misrepresented you.
[21:02:20] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Espithel› Oh yea you are correct
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 24, 2019, 08:12:15 pm
I dont really defend espi more than I feel you are unjustifiedly pushing for lynching him; i just want te balance that out, with you feeling so strongly about espi you have people thinking you have some kinda superpowered role; there is only 1 role you could have that would make you this sure and if you did you would have done well to hide it better. I mostly assume you don't actually have that and try to counterbalance your overeaction, thats all. You cling onto small things and read way too much into them. granted right now all we have is small things, but please focus. As for my vote resting on you out of apathy, let me explain a bit further; I do believe that voting for a lynch every day is important as even if you get the wrong person votes tell a story (an unreliable narrator to be sure and 1 round is certainly not enough to get anything final) (additionally if you just wait for the nightkills to happen there is no chance of winning, although I guess its possible to flirt with the thought of hoping for secondaries to unearth important things, but that happens either way).
Right now votes are relatively evenly split, so if we were all to gang up on one person, the exact scenario i described above as to why my initial tactic was wrong occurs and we dont learn anything. We need to make sure someone does get lynched, but we shouldnt pin one person from the start, otherwise we just lynch a towny (most of the time) without mafia revealing anything. So expect me to move my vote towards the end of the day, just not now.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 09:33:24 pm
I can't help but notice how much of what I've said has been misconstrued.

Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (1) - Calindu
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks

Two mafia in this group of voters.

Quote
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Espithel

Two mafia in this group of voters.

Proper post later, I have housework to take care of.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 09:44:34 pm
Hang on.

Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Espithel
Kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks

Removed Calindu appearing twice.
I'll take the blame for that.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 10:08:05 pm
Going backwards. Long and rambling post.

Also, I agree with the fact that ddevans appears to be pushing a lynch between you two too hard, so I'm moving my vote accordingly.

I backed away from the stance that we should lynch either Espi/MW, preferring MW, and moved my stance to 'anyone but shock' - I felt that it should have been obvious, at that point, that my initial pressure on those two was left at that.

So this is 1) incorrect and 2) curiously, was not an opinion you had voiced earlier - it was kinda just tacked on to this post about MW well after after Link made his post about me.

If you were town, a possible explanation would be that you wouldn't feel comfortable voicing that opinion until someone else did, which is fair. But that would also show blind faith in Link.

If you were mafia, maybe it could be this scenario - one of the early lynch wagons was one of your mates. Then, a wagon developed on me. It would, of course, make sense for some number of mafia to join that wagon.

And yh, I too am curious about dd feeling so strongly about mw vs espi, as it seems to completely hinge on him believing mw to either be gn or mafia. Otherwise we gain no info whatsoever from espi flipping sth and as other people pointed out even if espi flips mafia it doesnt really tell much.

I have voiced that I didn't believe either Espi or MW to be mafia - I have also voiced that I don't believe MW to be GN.

And personally, I find a lot of intel in voting patterns, interactions, etc. If I'm lynched and flip town, does that not change the perspective of all my interactions with Espi and MW? The perspective of Link's post regarding me? My questioning of shock? What if I lynch mafia? All of that changes when someone is lynched - that's how you gain intel. And looking at people changing their votes, moving at specific times of the round, moving after a 'trigger' post, that's all intel too. It's usually not much early, but it all stacks up over the course of the game.

I personally find the interactions between Espi and MW extremely notable - it was the first thing to happen in the game, and it immediately struck me as weird, in some way. The move I was comfortable with, most in line with my general playstyle, was to pressure it. I created an interaction triangle you can read from for the whole game.

I hope this explains more about why I believe so strongly in the power of the lynch.

Above quote shows dd apparently is fine with lynching JCJ, instead of focussing on Espi/MW, but then again I don't see the benefit of that. It does not provide anything better than lynching shock?! It might be a bit scummy.

It might be odd for me to state this clearly, but I think it's the correct play.

I noticed something in my interactions with shock that makes me want to not lynch him this round. I will say no more. It is not in the benefit of town for me to provide details.

Now that I look at it, it does seem weird how dd emphasizes Espi and MW as the only options for lynching...

As above, the point was to provide pressure on multiple people - which I succeeded in doing - and I have since moved to expressing a different stance.

This is even more notable to me - I put the most value in a bandwagon on the second vote. One vote can be a throwaway, a lone ranger, a controversial opinion people aren't ready to bite yet, etc. Two votes means something. This was the second vote on me - and it was based on a false statement, with no deeper reasoning.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 10:08:21 pm
If there is any additional information in the chatlogs, please post them, because I couldn't bother reading through such an amount of text (I read the entire topic, however). I will hold my vote back in the meantime to cover burrowed players, which I think is a good idea. I am overall leaning to kill either Espi or MW though.

This was the conclusion of the last post before Link's, a post entirely about Espi and MW.

If you haven't been swayed by Link - vote for MW (or dawn/jcj if you desire), and I'll join you. For now, my vote is symbolically on my biggest mafia read, per shock's request:

MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Espithel
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - ddevans96

Responding to Link's post later tonight.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 10:34:44 pm
I backed away from the stance that we should lynch either Espi/MW, preferring MW, and moved my stance to 'anyone but shock' - I felt that it should have been obvious, at that point, that my initial pressure on those two was left at that.

So this is 1) incorrect and 2) curiously, was not an opinion you [Calindu] had voiced earlier - it was kinda just tacked on to this post about MW well after after Link made his post about me.

If you were town, a possible explanation would be that you wouldn't feel comfortable voicing that opinion until someone else did, which is fair. But that would also show blind faith in Link.

There's some stuff to unpack here. One thing I don't understand, evans, is:
Quote
"I backed away from the stance that we should lynch either Espi/MW, preferring MW, and moved my stance to 'anyone but shock' - I felt that it should have been obvious, at that point, that my initial pressure on those two was left at that."
In contrast to:
Quote
"If you haven't been swayed by Link - vote for MW (or dawn/jcj if you desire), and I'll join you. For now, my vote is symbolically on my biggest mafia read, per shock's request:"

You have moved your stance to anyone but shock, and it was negligent of people to assume that you were pushing for this when you've stated you haven't.
Yet, you want to move your vote to a choice of MW, Dawn, or JCJ. There are many other non-shock targets, such as Weeb, yet you came back to these three.

Is there any particular reason you want MW, Dawn, or JCJ lynched over any other non-shock target?
Do you want to Lynch MW, Dawn, or JCJ over lynching Weeb? If so, why?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 10:36:41 pm
EBWOP:

You have moved your stance to anyone but shock, and it was negligent of people to assume that you were pushing for this when you've stated you haven't. you've stopped.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 10:45:11 pm
You have moved your stance to anyone but shock, and it was negligent of people to assume that you were pushing for this when you've stated you haven't.
Yet, you want to move your vote to a choice of MW, Dawn, or JCJ. There are many other non-shock targets, such as Weeb, yet you came back to these three.

Is there any particular reason you want MW, Dawn, or JCJ lynched over any other non-shock target?
Do you want to Lynch MW, Dawn, or JCJ over lynching Weeb? If so, why?

I know I am town. I am the only person I know is town. Therefore, from my perspective, it is in town's best interest for me to live. And this is true with every town player.

The best way for me to stay alive, currently, is to stack my vote with Ginyu's onto one of the three people who currently have 2 votes, and put them to 4 - the same as my total. The goal isn't to force a tie, I don't want that, I maintain that doesn't help us, and there's still plenty of time left for things to develop and break the tie. But it prevents the lynch from running away, and making (what I know is) the wrong decision without pushback.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 24, 2019, 10:50:24 pm
I have voiced that I didn't believe either Espi or MW to be mafia - I have also voiced that I don't believe MW to be GN.


If you haven't been swayed by Link - vote for MW (or dawn/jcj if you desire), and I'll join you. For now, my vote is symbolically on my biggest mafia read, per shock's request:


So you believe I may be mafia now? Or are you trying to do an information lynch? Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 10:58:44 pm
My priority is now survival - see my response to Espi. Information is the secondary goal.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 24, 2019, 10:59:35 pm
Alright.

MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - ddevans96

I'll remove my vote for now to prevent a runaway. Discussion is always good, but we need to reach a consensus shortly. The day's starting to end.

Personally, I'd take the opposite stance regarding survival - it's better to just keel over and die instead of trying to self-preserve, because it removes the ability for mafia to use self-preservation as a defence. That only works if every other town follows suit, though, which... Yeah, no.

You didn't answer the second part of my question, though: Would you prefer to lynch JCJ, Dawn, or MW over Weeb?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 11:09:36 pm
Personally, I'd take the opposite stance regarding survival - it's better to just keel over and die instead of trying to self-preserve, because it removes the ability for mafia to use self-preservation as a defence. That only works if every other town follows suit, though, which... Yeah, no.

Every player should always self-defend, unless they gain something substantial from death. Otherwise discussion is throttled, and most lynches would just be one of the early wagons. It's very easy for mafia to manipulate that kind of passive town play.

Quote
You didn't answer the second part of my question, though: Would you prefer to lynch JCJ, Dawn, or MW over Weeb?

If I could convince everyone that we should make a specific lynch this round, I would pick IW.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 24, 2019, 11:41:57 pm
Also, I agree with the fact that ddevans appears to be pushing a lynch between you two too hard, so I'm moving my vote accordingly.

I backed away from the stance that we should lynch either Espi/MW, preferring MW, and moved my stance to 'anyone but shock' - I felt that it should have been obvious, at that point, that my initial pressure on those two was left at that.

So this is 1) incorrect and 2) curiously, was not an opinion you had voiced earlier - it was kinda just tacked on to this post about MW well after after Link made his post about me.

If you were town, a possible explanation would be that you wouldn't feel comfortable voicing that opinion until someone else did, which is fair. But that would also show blind faith in Link.

It's just something that didn't cross my mind until it was posted by Linkcat, and I also had to think about it. I attached it at the end of the post because I didn't find any reason to create another one.


If you were mafia, maybe it could be this scenario - one of the early lynch wagons was one of your mates. Then, a wagon developed on me. It would, of course, make sense for some number of mafia to join that wagon.

There were 3 other places I could place a third vote on when I moved my vote from shock to you, and there were plenty of opportunities before that to wagon on someone else. Yet, I only joined this one.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 24, 2019, 11:48:01 pm
@kaempfer13 I really don't think you're mafia. If you are I might be throwing for town but I'm going to take a gamble. I'm going to give you something that I hope you have the brains for.
@MasterWalks There's a potential chance you also can crack this, but I also don't believe you are mafia.


A long time ago there was a little mix up and error made when you attempted to give me weekly tournament winner codes. I want you to try and think of the reason why this mistake occurred. Simplify the cause of this error to a single word that makes the most sense if you could only use one word. That word should loosely be able to connect to one of the 12 elements. If you think it connects to multiple pick the more appropriate one.

If you think you know the answer, post that element icon along with 2 other random element icons (if previously you thought there were two possible elements that could relate to the word, do NOT include the weaker connected element in your 3 element icon answer).

If you answer this correctly I'm going to use that word as a key for a cipher in which I share some info with you.

Moderator Comment Any attempt to bypass the PM restriction and send information to a specific player is against the spirit of the rules and will be treated as breaking rule 9 of the Game Rules. I went to go cite the rule that says codes and ciphers are banned, but apparently I forgot to actually put it in the rules all this time.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 24, 2019, 11:51:08 pm
There were 3 other places I could place a third vote on when I moved my vote from shock to you, and there were plenty of opportunities before that to wagon on someone else. Yet, I only joined this one.

Yep - MW, who had an established wagon you could have joined at any time, and dawn/JCJ, who had pretty much no serious threat to them - the people voting them hadn't voiced any major reasoning or push, and there were other targets being more heavily discussed.

Truth be told, the timing of second vote vs third vote in this context doesn't really matter all that much - a little bit, but the nature of the votes is the main distinguishing factor between you and IW that makes me more suspicious of him.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 25, 2019, 12:22:17 am
Alright, just woke up. Going through the thread again.

Quote from: Linkcat
The odds of you being GN are the same 1-in-19 as they are for anyone else.

The odds of MW being GN are a lot higher because he made a fairly bold claim of someone being scummy.

That's not how probabilities work, Linkcat. If the odds of MW being GN are higher than 1/19, the the odds of everyone else being GN are lower than 1/19.

Linkcat is scum confirmed, trying to sway us by pulling numbers out of his ass.

Wtf? I never even said this, Root said this in his failed quote. If this is a joke, I don't really get it.

I find it strange that Root actually believes MW has a higher chance of being GN. There's no way MW is GN.

Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, MasterWalks

I change my vote due to Links experience, but Espi, dont think you are off yet.

I BEG that someone roleblock Espi. Please.

If you change your vote just because someone has experience, you're going to have a bad time. What if I'm mafia? You just gave me a free vote. Vote for whoever you think is mafia, but try to have good reasons and not vote on someone silly just for being silly. Espi posted that picture of a tunnel because that's what you're doing. You have to constantly reevaluate.

It is true that in games that I am confident in my skills at, I usually have a lot more laidback playstyle. TBH I've come to realize that lynching people on the base of their actions not helping town, when the reason seems to be incompetence or a plain missunderstanding is actually a mistake. The actual reason for that was not immediately intuitive to me though and I only realized today why not only the people I am directly targeting but also people who are definitely more experienced than me disagreed with me.
Assuming every towny lynched people who deviate from the gameplan for reasons that are perfectly in line with their character (and thus more likely than not town if thats the only lead), mafia will never have to bother much with lynches and fit right in with no information gained for us during the day phase.

I will act not so rash in the future anymore and also try to refrain a bit more from discussion that doesnt help finding leads, even if it means having to accept that some of our allies either actively choose (for the fun factor or due to thinking they know better) to play suboptimally. After all it too seems that I aint quite got the hang of this.

So for now I will wait for more information to make a move. Which ironically means my vote on mw remains for a while even though I admitted its likely a mistake :P

As for why I quite strongly believe espi to be town or at least mws claim to be completely baseless, even though he clearly feels strongly about it: Similiar to DC and somewhat shock (although espi does strike me as better mafia player than either) simply has an irritating personality that most of us got used to, but mw clearly hasnt. Everything espi said (even if some of it is controversial) seems perfectly sound from townperspective to me and he definitely helps furthering discussion (towns primary weapon!) and he has experience (at least by virtue of sheer number of games played). If he is town, which -statistically speaking- he is, I would not want to lose him.

And yh, I too am curious about dd feeling so strongly about mw vs espi, as it seems to completely hinge on him believing mw to either be gn or mafia. Otherwise we gain no info whatsoever from espi flipping sth and as other people pointed out even if espi flips mafia it doesnt really tell much.

This is a great post, but it looks like you just asked your mafia team what you were doing wrong and came back with this. You're reacting pretty strongly against some light shade.

I'm still on MW. Sadly not had time to fully keep up but every time he talks i want him dead. *shrug*

The reason why lynching 'bad' town is bad is that when people play badly it sparks conversation. It sparks drama. Drama makes people make mistakes in their game. I kinda love the way shock and espi play.

(not related to the game, i really like the makeup of this mafia. we have new players, experienced players, logical ones, chaotic ones. People thinking differently to you is always a good thing. Sparks conversation.

JCJ stop, the first and second parts of your post directly contradict each other. MW is town. I agree that the makeup of this mafia is great.

I can't help but notice how much of what I've said has been misconstrued.

Espithel (1) - ddevans96
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
shockcannon (1) - Calindu
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks

Two mafia in this group of voters.

Quote
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Espithel

Two mafia in this group of voters.

Proper post later, I have housework to take care of.

Considering that the first group contains 10 of 19 players and there's 4 mafia, I agree that there's probably two mafia there. Considering that the second group includes me, there's a pretty low chance that 2/3 of the others are mafia. I also think there's a good chance that a mafia hasn't voted yet.

Now that I look at it, it does seem weird how dd emphasizes Espi and MW as the only options for lynching...

As above, the point was to provide pressure on multiple people - which I succeeded in doing - and I have since moved to expressing a different stance.

This is even more notable to me - I put the most value in a bandwagon on the second vote. One vote can be a throwaway, a lone ranger, a controversial opinion people aren't ready to bite yet, etc. Two votes means something. This was the second vote on me - and it was based on a false statement, with no deeper reasoning.

Disagree, two votes mean nothing, as we can see with dawn and JCJ. The third vote is the one that turns it into something real.

It looks to me like you've only been going after easy lynch targets this game, with weak, if any, actual scumreads.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 12:39:08 am
I disagree that lynching one of Espi/MW will give us any information. Espi always does weird shit as town or mafia so lynching him won't give us anything useful. MW thought that something weird that Espi did was weird and got on his case. He seems pretty town to me, and lynching him will just confirm that he was a town that pushed on something weird. Not really valuable information.

You don't find analyzing voting patterns and interactions useful? I know you definitely understand the power of the lynch, and the way little pieces of information stack over the whole game.

Quote
I don't see why dd even calls this a feud, since Espi hasn't even given a proper response to MW.

Feud is a loose term - I forget I haven't used it in these forums the way I do in real life. What I mean is that we shouldn't really be trusting either of them right now - even less so than we should generally be trusting each other.

Quote
I really don't like the way dd focused the thread on Espi/MW. Instead of putting down a vote like normal, he frames it as an option between two people, which makes it fairly likely that one of those two options will be lynched at the end of the day, especially when one of them is Espi, who has always been easy to lynch. As mafia, this is a great strategy for controlling the lynch and making sure it lands on a town, since it's easy for a mafia to get lynched on Day 1 with all the random votes. And since he's only doing this for "information", he won't even get a bad look for it.

I actually find it rare and surprising when a forked push on day 1, with no actual information, will result in one of the two getting lynched. In fact, even here, it's looking like a strong possibility that such a situation will not be the case.

Also - Espi being 'weird' and 'easy to lynch' is a really interesting statement that keeps getting repeated. I consider him one of the stronger players here, he just doesn't play 'by the book' - neither do myself or shock, just in different ways - and most of the newer players wouldn't know him as a bit of an oddball. Pushing a lynch from that angle just because of past games doesn't make sense - and even if it did, I make a point to isolate games from each other as much as possible, that wouldn't be like me.

And random/arbitrary votes make it harder for a mafia to be lynched on day 1, compared to if we get a lead from an ability or a ton of discussion leading to scumtells. Why would I provoke so much discussion on day 1 if I was mafia?

Considering that the first group contains 10 of 19 players and there's 4 mafia, I agree that there's probably two mafia there. Considering that the second group includes me, there's a pretty low chance that 2/3 of the others are mafia. I also think there's a good chance that a mafia hasn't voted yet.

I think there's a pretty decent chance. This wagon came out of nowhere, led by an experienced player with holes all over his analysis, with the next two people following with bare minimum input of their own. That whole situation is suspicious. Even if it's not two, it's absolutely one.

Disagree, two votes mean nothing, as we can see with dawn and JCJ. The third vote is the one that turns it into something real.

Two votes can mean a lot depending on context. It means more for my votes, which were initiated by your very strong push, than with dawn and JCJ, who had minimal argument against them, and were not in real danger of being lynched even before the votes on me.

Quote
It looks to me like you've only been going after easy lynch targets this game, with weak, if any, actual scumreads.

I've already stated why I don't have strong scumreads on day 1. Relying on instinct is a high risk play, and I don't enjoy taking risks in the early game.

Furthermore, I have not 'gone after' a lynch target - you are again ignoring that I have always found value in applying pressure in the early game, regardless of whether I desire the lynch or not, and I have since made clear that I don't have a strong stance towards any one lynch target.

Additionally, you use 'targets', plural - the only person I actually advocated for a lynch for has been Espi.



Think for a minute. You know that none of this really adds up to me being mafia. It's not in line with any playstyle I've adopted, it's not in line with typical early-game mafia play, and most of it's based on inaccurate and subjective claims. You are not showing your strongest deductive town play.

Quote
Other people that jump out to me are Coffee for being quiet, kaempfer for not playing how I expected him to, and Root for giving me weird vibes.

Would you be interested in elaborating on these?

Quote
Also, I caught a firefly.

Did you hurt it?

Of course not, I love her. I will call her Faye.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 01:25:28 am
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - ddevans96

Okay I going to lay back now. Ill stick with my original scum read and wait until I'm out of this tunnel.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 01:35:23 am
Syke! More tunnel for a sec.

My priority is now survival - see my response to Espi. Information is the secondary goal.

Okay so you have a million responses to him but i took a look at the one i assumed was the right one. If we are going to honest with ourselves, "survival first information second" is a "me game". Me survive first, town get information second.
[18:04:46] ‹ddevans96› it's not a 'me' game, that's the thing
So we got contradictions once again.
I dont blame you for defending against a lynch, but helping town should ALWAYS be priority, It has been for me. Right now, you surviving is not helping town, or at least you havent made a point in how it is. So far, you have said "I know i am town". I bet a mafia would say the exact same thing. Really, to me, thats your only excuse. Other than that your defense has been picking posts apart sentence by sentence and explaining yourself. I still am not seeing how that helps town. Your posts are long so it may be that i have missed something you said, but as of now, you are playing a me game.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 01:37:42 am
[01:36:43] ‹Espithel› What's your opinion on Evan's Weeb scumread, Link?
[01:39:26] ‹ddevans96› ‹@MasterWalks› lol, LongDono showed up?
[01:39:31] ‹ddevans96› haven't seen him in some time
[01:40:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. Between love and madness lies this post.
[01:42:35] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› how do i even keep missing feud
[01:44:55] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 6 + 7 + 3 + 7 + 9 = 32 ...!
[01:46:01] ‹shockcannon› lol
[01:46:08] ‹shockcannon› moderator needs to nerf me
[01:46:27] ‹shockcannon› changes rules after the fact also
[01:46:34] ‹Espithel› You need a buff lmao
[01:50:21] ‹shockcannon› the only buff i need is town confidence in me
[01:50:24] ‹shockcannon› i already found a mafia
[01:51:56] ‹Espithel› That's a buff, master.
[01:52:01] ‹Espithel› You need it.
[01:53:03] ‹ddevans96› generally, when you're very sure you've found a mafia, you want to be vocal about who it is :)
[01:53:13] ‹ddevans96› (unless you have a reason to stay lowkey)
[01:57:37] ‹shockcannon› generally, I never do what people want me to do
[01:57:40] ‹shockcannon› that's step 1 to me losing
[02:01:37] ‹Espithel› I want you to be useless, Shock.
[02:04:46] ‹ddevans96› it's not a 'me' game, that's the thing
[02:05:31] ‹MasterWalks› Linkcat you said you forgot to ban codes and ciphers this whole time in your moderator comment. Did you add them or are they ok? I personally dont know any codes besides "snaps" which wouldnt work here, just a question.
[02:05:34] ‹immortal_feud› oh what the, i thought all my matches were good for 50% rule
[02:06:45] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 2 + 3 + 5 + 1 + 7 = 18 ...
[02:07:09] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@immortal_feud› Youre matches were good, but if your opponent didnt pass their 50% rule, their game gets deleted, hence you being voided of a game. Personally, i was wary of this rule, and had to double check to make sure thats how its done.
[02:07:27] ‹MasterWalks› That would be a good one for a suggested change if you feel it needs it.
[02:07:33] ‹immortal_feud› yeah i thought i was checking all my opponents too
[02:08:09] ‹MasterWalks› it was either LongDono or Jen-i. If you want, i can figure out which one it was exactly if you dont remember
[02:08:10] ‹immortal_feud› was what happened was my opponent got some win removed so they were lower elo when i beat them or something?
[02:08:16] ‹Espithel› Hang on, this is a problem
[02:08:26] ‹Espithel› What if the cipher's so well hidden you can't see it
[02:08:32] ‹immortal_feud› i dont think i player either of them tho
[02:08:43] ‹immortal_feud› player played dongo
[02:08:48] ‹immortal_feud› and idk who played jen
[02:17:20] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@immortal_feud› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› A match was made
[02:17:56] ‹immortal_feud› huh?
[02:18:20] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ?
[02:21:31] ‹MasterWalks› you said you were looking for him

Chatlog for context.

I have DnD to play. I'll be back later.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 25, 2019, 01:52:10 am
Ah, there's nothing quite like picking fights with good players. I've missed this. I would respond to your individual statements, but I have a life so I'll just give a general response.

I still think my push was good, but you had a strong defense so I'm putting you back to neutral for now. I agree that your play this game does not match what I've seen you do as mafia before. However, a lot can change in two years, so I'm undecided on this point. I could push harder but I have a feeling it would just be a repeat of 62, where I lynched rob Day 1 and we were both town.

Your Insig read is still bad, his post is totally in line with what I would expect from him as either alignment. How do you feel about a kaempfer lynch?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 03:47:56 am
Syke! More tunnel for a sec.

My priority is now survival - see my response to Espi. Information is the secondary goal.

Okay so you have a million responses to him but i took a look at the one i assumed was the right one. If we are going to honest with ourselves, "survival first information second" is a "me game". Me survive first, town get information second.
[18:04:46] ‹ddevans96› it's not a 'me' game, that's the thing
So we got contradictions once again.

No, there are no contradictions here.

I reiterate: As town, you only have some universal truths at the start of the game. A town knows they are town, and a town player does not know that any other player is town. As such, there is zero chance a mafia is lynched if they are lynched, and there is some chance a mafia gets lynched if someone else is lynched.

This is not a 'me' thing. This is one of the fundamentals of mafia. It is a vastly different thing than potentially withholding and being vague with information (which, to be clear, can also have merit for town to do in certain circumstances - but it is not universal).

Quote
I dont blame you for defending against a lynch, but helping town should ALWAYS be priority, It has been for me. Right now, you surviving is not helping town, or at least you havent made a point in how it is. So far, you have said "I know i am town". I bet a mafia would say the exact same thing. Really, to me, thats your only excuse. Other than that your defense has been picking posts apart sentence by sentence and explaining yourself. I still am not seeing how that helps town. Your posts are long so it may be that i have missed something you said, but as of now, you are playing a me game.

Correct, a good mafia should also be making this defense. It ultimately does nothing to move the needle in my favor - it is the correct play for either side.

As for helping town, I believe I've asked some pertinent questions, and I feel that I've done a good job breaking down relevant posts this game. And while some of my defenses have little substance on their own, dissecting posts means more things for other people to respond to, which provokes discussions - that's why I defend myself in that manner.

The nature of mafia is such that scumreads get stronger as the game goes on. When anyone dies, you should be looking at what they said, who they responded to, who mentioned them, who voted for them, who they voted for...mafia's a big puzzle, you don't solve anything on day one. As such, I like to cast a wide net, prodding people for potential scumtells, publicly analyzing as much as I can - eventually, things will be revealed as relevant.

I hope this gives some clarifications on my general playstyle, and how I attempt to use it to town's benefit.

Ah, there's nothing quite like picking fights with good players. I've missed this. I would respond to your individual statements, but I have a life so I'll just give a general response.

I still think my push was good, but you had a strong defense so I'm putting you back to neutral for now. I agree that your play this game does not match what I've seen you do as mafia before. However, a lot can change in two years, so I'm undecided on this point. I could push harder but I have a feeling it would just be a repeat of 62, where I lynched rob Day 1 and we were both town.

Your Insig read is still bad, his post is totally in line with what I would expect from him as either alignment. How do you feel about a kaempfer lynch?

It's true that a lot can change in two years - there is only so much value in looking at games from that long ago.

I have no strong feelings either way about lynching kaempfer.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 25, 2019, 04:25:59 am
What's your read on me? I find it odd that you haven't given one.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 05:19:35 am
Probably Serial Killer.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 06:12:41 am
On the off-chance that people are looking at this thread at this time in the morning, there's a big discussion going on in blab rn.

Will post once it's over, but that could take some time.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 25, 2019, 06:58:16 am
[22:20:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. It's not a mystery.
[22:20:17] ‹ddevans96› ^ good and useful post in the social deduction game 'mafia' btw
[22:21:14] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Yes
[22:21:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Mafia
[22:21:20] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That's what the post is about
[22:21:33] ‹ddevans96› it is technically about mafia
[22:21:37] ‹ddevans96› just not our mafia :P
[22:22:16] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Ok, role reveal time.
[22:22:20] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› I'm the Butler.
[22:22:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm the maid
[22:22:44] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Wait
[22:22:50] ‹Espithel› I'm Colonel Mustard
[22:23:38] ‹Linkcat› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› Who is mafia?
[22:23:40] ‹ddevans96› in the billard room with the candlestick
[22:23:58] ‹Linkcat› ‹@Espithel› Same question to you.
[22:25:15] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Linkcat› if the joke answer doesn't make it clear - I don't really have a read on you at present
[22:25:37] ‹ddevans96› just not enough to go on
[22:26:04] ‹Linkcat› Well it's good you cleared that up, cause I thought you had a read and just didn't want to say it for some reason.
[22:27:03] Guest-Scarab-b242e left.
[22:26:55] ‹ddevans96› your behavior this game has literally just been 'I'll get to mafia when I wake up' and 'let's lynch dd'
[22:27:03] ‹ddevans96› just nothing for me to work with right now
[22:27:10] ‹ddevans96› will make sense one way or the other later, I'm sure
[22:27:51] Guest-GiantFrog-c080b joined.
[22:27:47] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› (6d10) 7 + 8 + 10 + 7 + 3 + 10 = 45 ...!
[22:27:55] ‹Linkcat› (6d10) 8 + 9 + 8 + 5 + 9 + 4 = 43 ...
[22:28:07] MasterWalks left.
[22:28:02] ‹ddevans96› (5d6) 6 + 4 + 3 + 5 + 1 = 19 ...!
[22:28:24] ‹Linkcat› We should really get our lynch sorted out soon.
[22:29:10] ‹ddevans96› yes
[22:30:38] Guest-GiantFrog-c080b left.
[22:31:15] ‹ddevans96› what're you thinking atm?
[22:31:51] ‹Linkcat› I'm pretty open right now.
[22:32:17] ‹Linkcat› More people need to be pushing lynches.
[22:32:35] ‹ddevans96› hm
[22:32:51] ‹Linkcat› All the votes are spread out and some quiet people haven't even voted.
[22:34:45] ‹Linkcat› Like Coffee. He was just here but has barely talked. It's like all the votes are on town so he doesn't even care who gets lynched.
[22:35:31] ‹Linkcat› I know dawn wants to cover for Graboid but it's more valuable to have a proactive vote.
[22:37:45] InsignificantWeeaboo left.Guest-Archangel-5bddf joined.
[22:38:57] Guest-Archangel-5bddf left.Guest-GiantFrog-c080b joined.
[22:38:49] ‹Espithel› Hey.
[22:38:59] ‹Espithel› Can we ask about the nightkill and why it didn't happen?
[22:40:34] ‹Linkcat› Yeah, it's pretty weird that nobody talked about it.
[22:41:16] ‹Linkcat› I mean, either mafia hit a Seraph/Graboid or Angel got the mindgate.
[22:42:10] Guest-Archangel-5bddf joined.
[22:42:11] ‹Espithel› Yeah. Do you think the lack of nightkill could have any relation to our lynch?
[22:42:40] Guest-GiantFrog-c080b left.
[22:42:32] ‹Espithel› ...Actually, no. That'd require the doctor coming out.
[22:43:04] Guest-Archangel-5bddf left.
[22:42:59] ‹Espithel› My scumreads right now is simply that Walks is, well. *Definitely* town.
[22:43:29] ‹Espithel› I'm very, very disappointed with Root's argument for lynching me between the two - I am more likely than Walks to be the nymph.
[22:43:43] ‹Espithel› Him being that... Wrong? Is uncharacteristic.
[22:43:54] ‹Espithel› But I feel we can give that the benefit of the doubt.
[22:44:54] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@Linkcat› Tbh I have no idea who to vote for
[22:44:59] ‹ddevans96› Link also said he gets weird vibes from Root, to be fair
[22:45:19] ‹dawn_to_dusk› The main thing that Root has done in 2 games was die after claiming Phoenix
[22:45:27] ‹ddevans96› I kinda agree, actually, based on his response to my question earlier
[22:45:30] ‹ddevans96› but hard to be sure
[22:45:42] ‹dawn_to_dusk› He could potentially just be rusty
[22:45:48] ‹dawn_to_dusk› (Hi Root if you read this in the thread)
[22:45:48] ‹ddevans96› maybe, yeah
[22:45:58] ‹Espithel› I feel that, if one of Kae and Calindu are mafia, they will *both* be mafia, but I'm not sure that either is. I think Calindu is town...ish?
[22:46:16] ‹Espithel› Kae is neutral.
[22:46:19] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Who can we vote for, where if they flip town, we get the most information?>
[22:46:34] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Obviously some people if they flip mafia will give a fair amount, MW, dd
[22:46:49] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'd argue less with Espithel, though enough people are going after him that it does give some
[22:46:57] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Some information*
[22:47:13] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But that's assuming they're mafia
[22:47:20] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If they're civ, how much info do we really get
[22:47:39] ‹Espithel› You should lynch who you think is mafia, not who you think is town.
[22:47:54] ‹Espithel› The first mafia lynch is the biggest information dump in the game.
[22:47:56] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I mean obviously
[22:48:16] ‹Espithel› ‹@Linkcat› ‹@ddevans96› Who hasn't posted at all? Maybe we could lynch a lurker.
[22:48:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› First lynches are very very rarely mafia though
[22:48:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› "Lynch who you think is mafia" "Oh btw lynch the afk dude"
[22:48:45] ‹Espithel› Or, not posted. Not voted, I meant.
[22:48:56] ‹dawn_to_dusk› :^)
[22:49:00] ‹Linkcat› dawn hasn't voted
[22:49:05] ‹Linkcat› Let's lynch him.
[22:49:09] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I have posted though
[22:49:10] ‹ddevans96› inactivity lynch? maybe
[22:49:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› :(
[22:49:17] ‹Espithel› It's very likely that one of the mafia hasn't voted. That list might be as small as the list of four that voted on Evans.
[22:49:22] ‹Espithel› Not meant to be an inactivity lynch
[22:49:32] ‹Linkcat› With 20 pages I don't think an inactivity lynch is correct.
[22:50:00] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Immortal Feud and Mathman would be the ones to look at
[22:50:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› For inactivity
[22:50:47] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I think it's likely that exactly one mafia hasn't voted
[22:51:06] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Oh I misread that as unlikely
[22:51:09] ‹dawn_to_dusk› My point stands though
[22:51:57] ‹Espithel› Yeah. Those would be my suggestions.
[22:52:17] ‹Espithel› 1) Lynch Kae or Cal. If one flips mafia, lynch the other. If one flips town, the other one is likely town.
[22:52:32] ‹Espithel› 2) Lynch someone who voted on Evans.
[22:52:43] ‹Espithel› 3) Lynch someone who hasn't voted - Ginyu, Immortal, Mathman.
[22:52:56] ‹Espithel› And also dawn, I suppose.
[22:53:01] ‹Linkcat› Why is there a relationship between kaempfer and Calin?
[22:53:09] ‹Espithel› They're both supportive of me.
[22:53:38] ‹ddevans96› Cal meets two of those criteria
[22:53:44] ‹ddevans96› that could be either a good thing or a bad thing, though
[22:53:54] ‹dawn_to_dusk› The venn diagram wins
[22:53:55] ‹Linkcat› I like Calin though
[22:54:04] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Me too
[22:54:21] ‹ddevans96› I'd rather not lynch him, he's a town lean for me atm actually
[22:54:53] ‹Espithel› Their movements seem rather in sync with each other, at least in my opinion. This is something better suited for a forum post.
[22:55:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If movements are in sync that's a huge red flag
[22:55:32] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But also careless
[22:56:04] ‹Espithel› I think Calindu would pass "being mafia 101"
[22:56:10] ‹Espithel› I don't think Cal's that stupid.
[22:56:21] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Exactly
[22:56:24] ‹dawn_to_dusk› What of Kae?
[22:56:33] ‹Espithel› Don't know Kae as a person.
[22:57:15] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Cal can't do much if Kae follows him
[22:58:13] ‹Espithel› What do you mean by that?
[22:59:40] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If we're being suspicious of the two based on them being "close", and we're saying that Calin wouldn't do that to Kae, there's the chance that Kae is doing it to Calin
[22:59:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Albeit slim
[23:00:10] ‹ddevans96› I don't think that's it, honestly
[23:00:15] ‹Espithel› I feel that if they're both scum, Kae would be disciplined for doing such.
[23:00:16] ‹ddevans96› I'd guess they're both town
[23:00:20] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Neither do I
[23:00:27] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Yeah that's the other thing
[23:00:44] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But how do you casually stop it
[23:01:00] ‹dawn_to_dusk› There are ways, of course
[23:01:19] MasterWalks joined.
[23:01:50] ‹Espithel› Yeah, option 1 doesn't seem to be the way to go.
[23:01:54] ‹Espithel› So there's option 2 and 3.
[23:02:30] ‹ddevans96› I'm not in favor of the inactivity lynch, personally
[23:02:44] MasterWalks left.
[23:02:35] ‹ddevans96› not with Graboid in the picture
[23:02:48] ‹Espithel› It's not meant to be an inactivity lynch - Ginyu isn't inactive
[23:02:52] ‹ddevans96› and I don't want to say 'lynch someone who voted on me' bc that would sound mega omgus
[23:02:55] ‹Espithel› But, yeah, Graboid does muck with it.
[23:03:03] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Inactivity lynch someone who voted?
[23:03:07] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Aka Math lmao
[23:03:19] ‹Espithel› Because we're pretty sure there's at least 1 scum in those two camps, and those two camps are small, it's slightly better than a random lynch.
[23:03:24] ‹Espithel› That's my logic here.
[23:03:43] ‹ddevans96› that would hold to reason, yeah
[23:03:49] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Psuedo random lynch?
[23:03:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Hm
[23:04:08] ‹dawn_to_dusk› So then option 2
[23:04:18] ‹dawn_to_dusk› What would the reasoning be for that?
[23:04:38] ‹Linkcat› I don't agree with lynching based on a group of people.
[23:04:42] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Because they were quick to jump on the wagon despite the information being unclear or something?
[23:04:50] ‹Linkcat› You lynch individuals.
[23:04:51] ‹Espithel› The way that Linkcat created that poke, and it turned into a 4-way post immediately.
[23:05:31] Guest-Archangel-5bddf joined.
[23:06:35] ‹dawn_to_dusk› You can look at a group to find options to vote for
[23:06:41] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Then assess each person individually
[23:07:01] ‹Espithel› I think there's exactly 1 scum in that (if there's a second scum, it has to be Link) - because again, you don't want to make your movements synchronous.
[23:07:38] ‹dawn_to_dusk› So in that group you have Link, Insig, Calin, and who?
[23:07:38] ‹Espithel› Can we ask why we want to protect the graboid so much?
[23:07:51] ‹Linkcat› Wait, what are you talking about?
[23:08:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› The people who voted dd
[23:08:26] shockcannon joined.
[23:08:15] ‹dawn_to_dusk› There were 4, weren't there?
[23:08:24] ‹Espithel› Link, Insig, Calin, Walks, and Me. Walks changed his vote to Kae, and I removed my vote.
[23:08:25] ‹shockcannon› listen
[23:08:29] ‹shockcannon› ian is maf
[23:08:34] ‹shockcannon› it's going to take you guys 4 days to figure that out
[23:08:35] ‹Linkcat› OH, hey shock.
[23:08:36] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Ahh
[23:08:38] ‹shockcannon› but you heard it here first
[23:08:46] ‹Espithel› Welp
[23:08:49] ‹Espithel› The lord has spoken!
[23:08:53] ‹Espithel› We're lynching Ian.
[23:08:55] ‹Linkcat› Hmm, my shift key has been getting stuck on the second letter a lot.
[23:08:58] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@shockcannon› His vote was nothing but an "RNG" vote, wasn't it?
[23:09:00] ‹ddevans96› we could also just lynch iancu, that's also an option
[23:09:24] shockcannon left.
[23:09:16] ‹ddevans96› we'll find out if shock is full of shit or not
[23:09:31] ‹Linkcat› Nah, we already know he is.
[23:09:31] ‹ddevans96› might be worth it on those merits alone
[23:09:37] ‹ddevans96› well, yeah, but what kind
[23:09:47] ‹Linkcat› If dd is mafia then I think there's 0 mafia that voted on him.
[23:09:51] ‹Linkcat› That would be big.
[23:10:00] ‹dawn_to_dusk› What's the chance that Shock is great 2 games in a row
[23:10:02] ‹Linkcat› All the kinds.
[23:10:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That's true
[23:10:16] ‹Espithel› 0 mafia
[23:10:18] ‹Espithel› ?
[23:10:36] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Link is one of those 0 mafia btw
[23:11:16] ‹ddevans96› yeah, if I were mafia, it would be an insanely risk play for any of the other mafia to have made any of those votes
[23:11:49] ‹Espithel› True.
[23:12:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› What was the voting order?
[23:12:12] ‹dawn_to_dusk› For those who voted dd
[23:12:18] ‹Linkcat› ME, Insig, Calin, Espi
[23:12:23] ‹ddevans96› Link, IW, Cal, Espi
[23:12:35] ‹dawn_to_dusk› And of MW?
[23:13:00] ‹Linkcat› kaempfer JCJ I think
[23:13:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Which was the one I was more curious about
[23:13:32] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Wait what?
[23:13:41] ‹Linkcat› Lol, dawn still has 2 votes.
[23:13:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› "Walks changed his vote to Kae"
[23:13:48] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That's what I mean
[23:13:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› When did MW vote dd
[23:14:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Save this for bedtime reading.
[23:14:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Lol it's true you can check
[23:14:35] ‹Espithel› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-game...
[23:15:07] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I don't understand why ian voting for me makes him mafia
[23:15:14] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But I don't think anyone else understands that either
[23:15:18] ‹ddevans96› oh, yeah, he did do that, I forgot
[23:15:36] ‹Espithel› So: Link (created), Insig, Walks, Walks immediately pokes Kae because of that damn tunnel vision, Calindu, Espithel, Espithel removes his vote to foster discussion.
[23:15:46] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If dd is mafia I think MW might be as well
[23:16:05] ‹Espithel› I am absolutely, diehard sure MW is town.
[23:16:14] ‹Espithel› To the point where I don't think lynching him is up for discussion at all
[23:16:22] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Fair
[23:16:22] ‹ddevans96› MW is very likely town
[23:16:35] ‹Espithel› However, yes.
[23:16:41] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Lynching him doesn't reveal much other than his opinions are his opinions so like
[23:17:10] ‹Espithel› So if we want to go down this route, then we're looking at Calindu, Insig, Me, or Link.
[23:17:27] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Mainly just saying that if dd flips, of the people who did vote him, MW is the most likely outside of other reasoning
[23:17:33] ‹dawn_to_dusk› And said reasoning makes him more likely to be town
[23:19:31] ‹Espithel› Insig's done basically nothing, so it's hard to pin him down.
[23:19:36] ‹Espithel› So, you all think Calindu's town, yeah?
[23:20:02] ‹Linkcat› Yes
[23:20:16] ‹ddevans96› yeah
[23:20:26] ‹Linkcat› I don't like where this is going.
[23:20:57] ‹Espithel› Well, if option 1 is out of the question, and option 2 is out of the question. That leaves us with Espithel option 3, or something else entirely.
[23:21:37] shockcannon joined.
[23:21:51] ‹shockcannon› i hope you realize one of you 4 is mafia
[23:22:00] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Which one?
[23:22:11] ‹shockcannon› i'll save that for day 3
[23:22:15] ‹shockcannon› ;)
[23:22:17] ‹ddevans96› I mean, that's a strong possibility, yeah
[23:22:21] ‹Linkcat› I still want to lynch kaempfer
[23:23:03] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I don't like Espithel option 3 :(
[23:23:21] ‹Espithel› I don't like Espithel option 2 :(~
[23:23:39] ‹Espithel› But, if you think option 3 is fruitless, then... What else?
[23:23:40] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Espithel option 1 it is!
[23:24:00] ‹Espithel› There's more than those three options if you don't like any of them aaaa
[23:24:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Honestly I believe Town can gain more from you being alive at least 1 more phase
[23:24:09] ‹Espithel› They're just not Espithel options
[23:24:44] ‹Linkcat› I would never wnt to go with anything that's called an Espithel option.
[23:24:56] Guest-Archangel-5bddf left.
[23:24:56] ‹Espithel› Lynching Kae is an Espithel option.
[23:25:12] ‹Linkcat› Your reasoning is bad though.
[23:25:14] • Espithel coughs.
[23:25:18] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Epithel options 1 through 19
[23:25:30] ‹Espithel› So. Lynching Kae for non-Espithel reasons.
[23:25:35] ‹Espithel› What's the argument?
[23:25:47] ‹ddevans96› it's in the thread somewhere
[23:25:56] ‹dawn_to_dusk› It's faster if he says it here
[23:26:07] shockcannon left.
[23:26:05] ‹Espithel› IT'S SEVEN IN THE MORNING AAAAAAAAAAAA
[23:26:28] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Mafia never sleeps
[23:26:30] ‹Espithel› THE FACT I CAN STILL THINK COHERENT THOUGHTS AT THIS TIME IS A FUCKING MIRACLE C'MON CUT ME SOME SLACK
[23:26:30] ‹ddevans96› fair
[23:26:31] ‹Linkcat› The way he's acted is sketch.
[23:26:32] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Except for when they do
[23:26:46] ‹Linkcat› Aren't you normally awake at this time?
[23:26:49] ‹ddevans96› I'm basically falling out of my chair in exhaustion, personally
[23:27:02] ‹ddevans96› might just need food tho
[23:27:06] ‹Espithel› ‹@Linkcat› Well, if you want to lynch him, that's pretty obvious. But what's sketchy?
[23:28:35] • Espithel crickets chirp in anticipation
[23:30:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Hey that's my line
[23:30:13] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Chirp
[23:31:24] ‹ddevans96› that's justa's line :(
[23:31:42] ‹Espithel› "Crickets are birds"
[23:34:41] ‹Linkcat› I feel like he rolled mafia his first game, was awkward in the thread like anyone would be, then asked his team how he was supposed to play and is now acting how I would expect a town kaempfer to act.
[23:34:51] ‹Linkcat› This is all just based on feeling.
[23:35:15] PlayerOa joined.
[23:35:26] ‹Espithel› 'ey Oa.
[23:35:45] ‹Linkcat› Oh, another person.
[23:36:04] ‹Linkcat› ‹@PlayerOa› Who do you want to lynch?
[23:36:22] PlayerOa left.
[23:36:25] ‹Espithel› Okay, so in order for that to hold float, you'd need proof of "awkward" Kae.
[23:36:37] ‹Espithel› Which then transitions into "normal" kae.
[23:36:56] ‹Linkcat› I don't feel like doing that.
[23:37:18] ‹Espithel› Then I don't feel like lynching Kae. >:(
[23:37:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› And by process of elimination from Espithel Option 3, that leaves Link as the most likely candidate
[23:39:33] ‹Espithel› I don't think Link is mafia because of that group unless there's 2 mafia in it.
[23:39:39] ‹Espithel› Which is a possibility.
[23:39:57] ‹Espithel› ...That's already been addressed - it'd be risky Evans 2019
[23:39:58] ‹Espithel› fuck me
[23:40:23] ‹Linkcat› Plot twist, you and I are the 2 mafia in that group.
[23:40:24] ‹Espithel› I'm gonna go get some tea.
[23:40:50] ‹dawn_to_dusk› How suspiciously British of you
[23:40:55] ‹Espithel› Best plot twist: All five of the people in that group are scum and Sub is a bastard mod
[23:41:06] ‹Linkcat› Lmao
[23:41:14] ‹Espithel› What? Do I need proof of me making a cup of tea now?
[23:41:20] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Who would be the best Bastard mod
[23:41:33] ‹Linkcat› Me
[23:41:39] shockcannon joined.
[23:42:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Obviously
[23:43:07] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Just have a train of roles like "Whenever an OU role is used, learn the name of the role and the person who used it"
[23:43:19] ‹dawn_to_dusk› "Whenever a passive role is activated, learn the name of the role and the person who owns it"
[23:43:29] ‹Linkcat› We're not getting anywhere, I think we have to wait for Europe to wake up.
[23:43:41] ‹Linkcat› The normal ones, at least.
[23:43:44] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Bastard Rules except the mod told the truth the entire time
[23:44:06] ‹shockcannon› ironically, as you continue to learn nothing, I continue to learn everything
[23:44:49] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Such as?
[23:49:37] ‹shockcannon› I can't tell you while the mafia is in chat
[23:51:28] ‹ddevans96› meme
[23:51:35] shockcannon left.
[23:52:17] shockcannon joined.
[23:52:51] ‹shockcannon› I hope that within the next 3 mafia I get mafia at least once
[23:53:11] ‹shockcannon› Being town is too boring and too easy
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 25, 2019, 08:48:40 am
That's a disgusting amount to read so I'll try to sum it up

3 Espithel-based trains if thought going into the lynch
1. Kaempf/Calin, if one is mafia, the other probably is too
2. Lynch someone based on activity
3. Lynch someone who voted for dd. Since people were so quick to jump on the train, one of them may be likely to be mafia.

Option 1 is unlikely to work since neither of them are likely to fall into the trap of following each other

Option 2 shouldn't be followed since we have 20 pages of posts to work off

Option 3 devolved into discussion about who might be mafia if dd flips scum.


Shock says Ian is mafia and there's slight discussion about voting for him
Kaempf is also an option because Link finds him to be playing like a 1st-time-scum

In the end nothing happens
If anyone has anything else to add from the discussion, feel free
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 08:49:55 am
Going to sleep, should be back before deadline.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 09:04:44 am
Maybe I shouldnt do this, because defending people with little threat to them in the first place is what got me here. But I cant help but defending myself each time that I am called into question.
Me acting awkwardly was obviously a consequence of me being new first, but it's also actually because I am town.
While technically I am surrounded by people allied to me, I have noone I can fully trust and on day 1 there is a little information I could have based on a role. All I know is that to gain information we have to talk. And so I blabbered whenever the opportunity arose.
As mafia it would have been much easier to lay low and just contribute enough to discussion to not be suspicious and I would have people I can orient myself towards.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 10:01:21 am
@kaempfer13 I really don't think you're mafia. If you are I might be throwing for town but I'm going to take a gamble. I'm going to give you something that I hope you have the brains for.
@MasterWalks There's a potential chance you also can crack this, but I also don't believe you are mafia.


A long time ago there was a little mix up and error made when you attempted to give me weekly tournament winner codes. I want you to try and think of the reason why this mistake occurred. Simplify the cause of this error to a single word that makes the most sense if you could only use one word. That word should loosely be able to connect to one of the 12 elements. If you think it connects to multiple pick the more appropriate one.

If you think you know the answer, post that element icon along with 2 other random element icons (if previously you thought there were two possible elements that could relate to the word, do NOT include the weaker connected element in your 3 element icon answer).

If you answer this correctly I'm going to use that word as a key for a cipher in which I share some info with you.

Any attempt to bypass the PM restriction and send information to a specific player is against the spirit of the rules and will be treated as breaking rule 9 of the Game Rules.

I went to go cite the rule that says codes and ciphers are banned, but apparently I forgot to actually put it in the rules all this time.

Too bad that it isnt allowed :( although I guess there is room for debate there as it wasnt actually written in the rules
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 25, 2019, 10:04:13 am

I'm still on MW. Sadly not had time to fully keep up but every time he talks i want him dead. *shrug*

The reason why lynching 'bad' town is bad is that when people play badly it sparks conversation. It sparks drama. Drama makes people make mistakes in their game. I kinda love the way shock and espi play.

(not related to the game, i really like the makeup of this mafia. we have new players, experienced players, logical ones, chaotic ones. People thinking differently to you is always a good thing. Sparks conversation.

JCJ stop, the first and second parts of your post directly contradict each other. MW is town. I agree that the makeup of this mafia is great.


Um, I disagree, my vote is on MW because everytime he talks I want him dead because I am reading him as scummy not definitely scummy, but enough that he is my strongest day 1 scumread. Also a little Calindu but I'm not sure why. It is odd that you believe so strongly he is town. What is the reason you think this strongly enough to make it an absolute statement?

Syke! More tunnel for a sec.

My priority is now survival - see my response to Espi. Information is the secondary goal.

Okay so you have a million responses to him but i took a look at the one i assumed was the right one. If we are going to honest with ourselves, "survival first information second" is a "me game". Me survive first, town get information second.
[18:04:46] ‹ddevans96› it's not a 'me' game, that's the thing
So we got contradictions once again.
I dont blame you for defending against a lynch, but helping town should ALWAYS be priority, It has been for me. Right now, you surviving is not helping town, or at least you havent made a point in how it is. So far, you have said "I know i am town". I bet a mafia would say the exact same thing. Really, to me, thats your only excuse. Other than that your defense has been picking posts apart sentence by sentence and explaining yourself. I still am not seeing how that helps town. Your posts are long so it may be that i have missed something you said, but as of now, you are playing a me game.

If you have a train on you, of course survival is priority. Day 1 if you know you are town and you don't know others are town, the best way to help town is not die. Dd is middle ground for me atm, could be scum, but this comment makes sense perfectly well.

*jcj continues to scroll and see's dd's post saying exactly this but in more words

*jcj finishes reading dd's post and I think he is reading more and more as town

Maybe I shouldnt do this, because defending people with little threat to them in the first place is what got me here. But I cant help but defending myself each time that I am called into question.
Me acting awkwardly was obviously a consequence of me being new first, but it's also actually because I am town.
While technically I am surrounded by people allied to me, I have noone I can fully trust and on day 1 there is a little information I could have based on a role. All I know is that to gain information we have to talk. And so I blabbered whenever the opportunity arose.
As mafia it would have been much easier to lay low and just contribute enough to discussion to not be suspicious and I would have people I can orient myself towards.

I have found kae to be fairly consistant with how I have seen him play other games. A lot of talking a lot of logic, fully immersed in what he is doing. Again, could be either but the reason people are scumreading him is invalid imo as this is how i would expect him to play in either role. 
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 25, 2019, 10:08:37 am
It's not you being awkward that bothers me, it's that you suddenly stopped being awkward.

You should always defend yourself unless the push is particularly stupid.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 10:20:50 am
A good nights sleep :) (not really, but I spent time on that post). I make most of my posts almost as soon as i read everything, so a post I spent hours thinking on making can easily look like an outlier.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 10:23:54 am
Of course spending time on a post also means having time to coordinate myself with others if I were mafia, so ofc this doesnt make me a confirmed towny or anything. Just means that even if I have only myself to talk to, I can still come out with a better thought out post than i usually do if i spent extra time on it.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 25, 2019, 10:26:37 am
It's a fair point.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 25, 2019, 10:29:49 am
MW is pretty clearly just a bad town. Not in the shock way, in the normal way. Bad town always have scummy posts on the surface level, and they usually get lynched for it.

When I say, "MW is town," that's not an absolute statement, that's my opinion, just like everything else I say.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 25, 2019, 11:31:14 am
feel like espithel is mafia
feel like link and shock are town
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 02:31:41 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, iancudorinmarian
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - ddevans96

3 hours left, and I want to make sure there's not going to be a no-lynch day. Does this make me look scummy? Maybe.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 25, 2019, 04:16:13 pm
Quote from: chat
[17:43:26] ‹moehrpi› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Did you mention anywhere that you wouldn't be as active as last mafia? Or is it because dd and Link are already doing the lion's share of posting/analysis?
[17:43:54] ‹moehrpi› Maybe I am just confused that late-game iancu posted a lot more than early-game iancu does.
[17:45:07] ‹moehrpi› [22:47:54] ‹Espithel› 'The first mafia lynch is the biggest information dump in the game.' I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit. :)
[17:52:48] ‹iancudorinmarian› I can't contribute much tbh.
[17:53:04] ‹iancudorinmarian› I only really step forward when there's no discussion.

I'd like to hear a bit more on '[22:47:54] ‹Espithel› The first mafia lynch is the biggest information dump in the game.' from anyone really.


[22:49:32] ‹Linkcat› With 20 pages I don't think an inactivity lynch is correct.

Information is scarce so I am not entirely opposed to it. Would it in your opinion, Link, be justifiable on day 2? Otherwise it will be tough to flush out inactive mafia. However, we don't gain any intel from it unless we are extremely lucky. Just to gain some perspective: how bad is an inactivity lynch compared to no lynch?


I can't really get behind the 'how many mafia voted' deliberation. I agree with the consensus of how many of them actually voted but there is no information. Mafia plays as if they were town. So more reserved players don't vote/push and others do so as usual. I find it hard to believe mafia follow a concerted strategy in that regard.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 04:41:14 pm
[17:32:14] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Sure. Until we know who a single mafia is, a lot of our information is weak because nothing's certain.
[17:32:33] ‹Espithel› Once we get the first lynch, we can look at how other people reacted to that mafia.
[17:33:06] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› That makes a lot of sense. I actually just misread.
[17:33:28] ‹moehrpi› I thought about the first Nightkill. Somehow I missed 'lynch'...
[17:33:49] ‹moehrpi› Thanks for clearing that up. :flinch:
[17:34:43] ‹Espithel› Another truism is that if we've got one scum, we can look at previous nightkills to try and see why the mafia killed those people. Maybe they said something another mafia member didn't like?
[17:35:46] ‹Espithel› We can't really do that until we've got one kill because of the good old toxic townie motif: I'm defending Walks super, super hard, for example. So if I flip scum, it's going to look real, real bad on him.
[17:35:58] ‹Espithel› Ditto cal/kae.
[17:36:26] ‹Espithel› Sometimes, the mafia like to use that to try and make somebody look scummy.


Also note that I didn't suggest an inactivity lynch. Evans seems pretty certain that there's one scum who hasn't voted.
The pool of people who haven't voted is pretty small. So if we lynch from there (randomly or educated), we have a better chance of killing scum than a random lynch. (All bad arguments for lynching have the same probability as a random lynch of killing someone, imo.)

That was the train of thought. Criticise it how you will.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 05:11:05 pm
Evans seems pretty certain that there's one scum who hasn't voted.

I've said the opposite - I think it is most likely all the mafia voted prior to me waking up yesterday.

3 hours left, and I want to make sure there's not going to be a no-lynch day. Does this make me look scummy? Maybe.

What's your reads on MW and jcj?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 05:13:00 pm
MW - neutral
JCJ - slightly scummy. He seems to have changed his mind *again* towards the D1 lynch vs D1 no-lynch.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 05:31:55 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (2) - moehrpi, RootRanger
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (5) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, iancudorinmarian, Mobian
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - ddevans96
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 05:32:27 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (3) - moehrpi, RootRanger, ddevans96
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, iancudorinmarian

Given MW and jcj, I would also rather lynch jcj rn, so I'm moving my vote - we're discussing our best lynch target in chat at present.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 05:32:44 pm
Ninja'd, add Mobian's vote to the above.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 05:33:52 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (4) - moehrpi, RootRanger, ddevans96, iancudorinmarian
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Mobian

I also think JCJ is scummy, so I'm moving my vote.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 05:35:18 pm
I really dont want to see dd or link lynched right now. These are both experienced players and if they were mafia, it would be insanely hard to tell this early, they play smarter than that. Whats the scum read on dd right now? The ones i have read seem pretty shallow. Because he made it sound like only me and espi are lynchable? I was the first to vote and i showed confidence in my decision, ofc either of us are the most plausible lynch at the time.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 05:37:09 pm
Evans seems pretty certain that there's one scum who hasn't voted.

I've said the opposite - I think it is most likely all the mafia voted prior to me waking up yesterday.

I derped. Link said that.

My apologies.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 05:50:45 pm
Iancu, please EBWOP to include my vote.

I've been watching this without much commentary, mostly because I still don't know all of you that well. So until I have a better read on people, I feel going with the majority is best for me. The ideal situation for me would have been to be absolutely sure, and I was considering using my vote to throw a null lynch, but given how the majority of you feel about that, I didn't want to give off the wrong impression and make you think I was mafia again. I truly hope we're making the right play on ddevans, but at this point, I suppose it can't be helped. Please bear in mind this is only my second game of mafia, and I don't want my inexperience to come out as scum.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 05:51:56 pm
Can we migrate all these votes? JCJ and dd are really not good targets. JCJ is moving and typing form a damn phone. dd is too experienced to outs himself as a mafia this early. Like really, almost anyone but these 2 would be better.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 05:52:22 pm
Iancu, please EBWOP to include my vote.

Your vote is included in his most recent post.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 05:53:05 pm
EBWOP

Nevermind, ian. I didn't realize you changed your vote.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 05:55:51 pm
Iancu, please EBWOP to include my vote.

I've been watching this without much commentary, mostly because I still don't know all of you that well. So until I have a better read on people, I feel going with the majority is best for me. The ideal situation for me would have been to be absolutely sure, and I was considering using my vote to throw a null lynch, but given how the majority of you feel about that, I didn't want to give off the wrong impression and make you think I was mafia again. I truly hope we're making the right play on ddevans, but at this point, I suppose it can't be helped. Please bear in mind this is only my second game of mafia, and I don't want my inexperience to come out as scum.
Your voteis in his postand probably the reason he migrated his vote in the first place. He doesnt want our lynch target to be hammered in, so that mafia can just watch from a safe distance as we lynch a towny (presumably). If we target more people - so long as we do lynch someone in the end- we can make mafia feel more uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 25, 2019, 05:56:48 pm
I've been watching this without much commentary, mostly because I still don't know all of you that well. So until I have a better read on people, I feel going with the majority is best for me. The ideal situation for me would have been to be absolutely sure, and I was considering using my vote to throw a null lynch, but given how the majority of you feel about that, I didn't want to give off the wrong impression and make you think I was mafia again.

All valid.

Quote
I truly hope we're making the right play on ddevans, but at this point, I suppose it can't be helped.

This is no longer true, as the vote is now 4-4 - my death no longer seems inevitable.

For what it's worth, had we not been able to tie the vote, it would have been a scumread against you - making the deciding vote, or the one that puts the vote out of reach, is often seen as a mafia play to control the lynch. But since we were still visibly able to tie it, I don't see that as applying.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 05:59:02 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (5) - moehrpi, RootRanger, ddevans96, iancudorinmarian, Espithel
iancudorinmarian (1) - shockcannon
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Mobian

Top 10 anime betrayals, I know, jon. See you in forum brawl.

Time RESET.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 25, 2019, 06:01:59 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (5) - moehrpi, RootRanger, ddevans96, iancudorinmarian, Espithel
ddevans96 (5) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Mobian, shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 06:02:37 pm
GOD DAMN IT

TEN OUTTA TEN

OUTPLAYED
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 06:02:59 pm
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (6) - moehrpi, RootRanger, ddevans96, iancudorinmarian, Espithel, MasterWalks
ddevans96 (5) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Mobian, shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 25, 2019, 06:05:23 pm
7. The Day will not end until both the timer has ended and 5 minutes have passed since the last vote. If any sort of endless voting loop occurs that affects the lynch, there will be No Lynch. The day will be ended at the host's discretion if there is any vote swapping trolling/juggling.

So now we just wait.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 25, 2019, 06:08:24 pm

MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - mathman101
JonathanCrazyJ (6) - moehrpi, RootRanger, ddevans96, iancudorinmarian, Espithel, MasterWalks
ddevans96 (4) - Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, Mobian
Moehrpi (1) - shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 25, 2019, 06:10:17 pm
Night 1

(https://i.imgur.com/4UjUAWt.jpg)

"The day will be ended at the host's discretion if there is any vote swapping trolling/juggling." - And since shock's vote was a back-and-forth that didn't affect the outcome, the Day ends now.

JonathanCrazyJ died. He was an Elemental and a Guardian Angel.

Linkcat is being difficult, so this night phase will also be 2 days long, but seeing how only 1 person was against 24-hour night phases (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/off-topic-discussions/polls-for-mafia-71/), here's a plan:
- If everyone (except 3 or less people) manages to send in their night actions WITHIN the first 24 hours (and also actively saying if they don't do an action), then we can try a 24 hour long night phase next time.

Night 1 has ended.

Edit 1 (2019 May 27): Extended timer by 1 hour.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 06:13:42 pm
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 06:29:24 pm
Hm, since JcJ was GA, I wonder if he protected himself, survived the nightkill and thus mafia wanted to get rid of him while town is easily swayed?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 06:31:23 pm
It's very possible... I'm brewing a fresh theory, but I need time to flesh it out.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 06:31:55 pm
Hm, since JcJ was GA, I wonder if he protected himself, survived the nightkill and thus mafia wanted to get rid of him while town is easily swayed?

If true, moe was first to vote for him with root being second. Usually takes 2 votes on someone for it to be a meaningful thing.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 06:40:46 pm
Something to note is that train brewed slowly - it only became fully manifest when evans self-preserved himself.

Does that affect anything?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 06:42:01 pm
There's a high chance I know who JCJ targeted N0.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 06:43:45 pm
There's a high chance I know who JCJ targeted N0.

Yeah, himself. He was likely the NK target.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 25, 2019, 06:49:51 pm
Ouch :/ I'm surprised he was so aggressive with a civ power role, I figured that if he was civ it would at least be one of the weaker roles. Note that JCJ was pushing for the MW lynch - we can maybe look more into the MW/Espithel feud. I still think that between those two targets, Espi is the better lynch for reasons I've described earlier, but since JCJ was pushing for MW I'm not as sure anymore.

Also, I would still be cautious about role blocking anyone tonight. Although there is likely a mafia between Espi/MW, it's not worth risking the chance of blocking a civ power role.

Also interested in what ian has to say.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 07:05:43 pm
There's a high chance I know who JCJ targeted N0.
Alright, that was a lie. Just wanted to see people's reaction. Most were just guessing, but Mobian seemed to be pretty sure of it. I think we've just found one of the mafias.

There's a high chance I know who JCJ targeted N0.

Yeah, himself. He was likely the NK target.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 07:06:53 pm
However, I did not lie about my ability failing on N0.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 07:12:50 pm
There's a high chance I know who JCJ targeted N0.
Alright, that was a lie. Just wanted to see people's reaction. Most were just guessing, but Mobian seemed to be pretty sure of it. I think we've just found one of the mafias.

There's a high chance I know who JCJ targeted N0.

Yeah, himself. He was likely the NK target.

You really think I'd have rolled dirty twice in a row? No. I am, however, annoyed that we don't seem to like evidence, and would rather strike out blindly in the asinine hopes that we get lucky enough to hit a mafia. Explain to me who that helps, aside from mafia. Thanks to us blindly shooting in the dark, we just killed off one of our strongest defenders. So yeah, I'm a tad salty. If you think that's enough to make me mafia, then so be it. It's not like we need proof to kill anyone, anyways.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 25, 2019, 07:17:06 pm
I read Mobian as town. He advocated no-lynch at the end, as well as shock.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 25, 2019, 07:19:35 pm
no lynch is bad for town in the long run so thats actually more of a red flag, even if we ended up targeting one of our own
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 07:22:35 pm
no lynch is bad for town in the long run so thats actually more of a red flag, even if we ended up targeting one of our own

Not in the early stages, but you people are SO hung up on "someone has to die, so we MIGHT learn something". With that mindset, we may as well not even have secondary roles and just blindly shoot people till the game ends.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 07:26:28 pm
Scum read tier list

S Tier

Espithel
He is mafia.

A Tier

iancudorinmarian
He is sketchy. Not really playing how he did last game. Makes a lot of accusations. Not tunnel vision like me but lots of baseless motives.

Moe and root
Started the bandwagon on jcj. They couldnt kill him with NK but they can with lynch.

B Tier

Shock
Because its shock

ddevans and Linkcat
They are too experienced. If they are mafia, it is unlikely they will slip up. In the best scenario, if one of them is mafia, the other isnt. They can probably read each other well.

Calindu
Very aggressive and opinionated. Nothing unusual really but worth keeping your eye on.

Insig and d2d
quiet people. insig is usually quiet both in and out of this game so not necessarily too unusual.

C Tier
Everyone else.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 07:35:29 pm
A lot of accusations? I only made two. And the first one was only because I was provoked.

And how is my playstyle different from last game?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: PlayerOa on May 25, 2019, 07:38:37 pm
Nothing that either iancu, Cal, shock, Insig or d2d have done seems weird to me, regarding their personalities.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 07:47:42 pm
ian is more reckless this time around. He was ultra concentrated last game. Making long term game plans, calculated votes, etc. Thats why he got a ton of votes for best player. This round his reasoning for lynch was a hunch. He doesnt appear to be gameplanning all that much. He not espithel sus but i think its worth closely watching him.

Calindu i will admit i am not too sure about. Never talked to him much, but he is everything i stated in the list. Not a ton of sus on him, thats why he is B tier.

insig is not acting all that differently as i stated. Quiet people are just sketchy
d2d was much more talkative last game. He hasnt said anything about being afk or anything. If he is irl busy then totally understandable.

However, it appears irl stuff doesnt matter to yall considering the jcj lynch.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on May 25, 2019, 08:48:20 pm
*dies laughing*
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 25, 2019, 09:06:31 pm
[16:43:26] ‹moehrpi› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Did you mention anywhere that you wouldn't be as active as last mafia? Or is it because dd and Link are already doing the lion's share of posting/analysis?
[16:43:54] ‹moehrpi› Maybe I am just confused that late-game iancu posted a lot more than early-game iancu does.
[16:45:07] ‹moehrpi› [22:47:54] ‹Espithel› 'The first mafia lynch is the biggest information dump in the game.' I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit. :)
[16:52:48] ‹iancudorinmarian› I can't contribute much tbh.
[16:53:04] ‹iancudorinmarian› I only really step forward when there's no discussion.
[16:58:23] ‹Guest-Archangel-5bddf› He’s mafia
[17:00:48] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[17:21:58] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[17:22:04] ‹Guest-FireflyQueen-3c571› hey
[17:32:14] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Sure. Until we know who a single mafia is, a lot of our information is weak because nothing's certain.
[17:32:33] ‹Espithel› Once we get the first lynch, we can look at how other people reacted to that mafia.
[17:33:06] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› That makes a lot of sense. I actually just misread.
[17:33:28] ‹moehrpi› I thought about the first Nightkill. Somehow I missed 'lynch'...
[17:33:49] ‹moehrpi› Thanks for clearing that up. :flinch:
[17:34:43] ‹Espithel› Another truism is that if we've got one scum, we can look at previous nightkills to try and see why the mafia killed those people. Maybe they said something another mafia member didn't like?
[17:35:46] ‹Espithel› We can't really do that until we've got one kill because of the good old toxic townie motif: I'm defending Walks super, super hard, for example. So if I flip scum, it's going to look real, real bad on him.
[17:35:58] ‹Espithel› Ditto cal/kae.
[17:36:26] ‹Espithel› Sometimes, the mafia like to use that to try and make somebody look scummy.
[17:48:03] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@Espithel› btw link said that there’s a chance that maf hasn’t voted
[17:48:11] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Not Evans
[17:52:18] ‹Espithel› fuck.
[17:52:28] ‹Espithel› Point remains!
[18:00:19] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[18:09:09] ‹kaempfer13› hm, I did say that i would move my lynch vote at the end of the day
[18:09:49] ‹kaempfer13› dont really feel comfortable with the choices though
[18:10:48] ‹kaempfer13› also kinda want to use the who function not for ingame reasons (atleast not really) but just to see how many people would be ready to react intime for the lynch
[18:12:58] ‹ddevans96› so what're we thinking?
[18:14:17] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› Is it the question whether you divulge information and it's bad if it doesn't lead to a lynch? If that is not the case do it now.
[18:16:05] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› No scum-read so far. I am a bit surprised to see Root without any votes while some people have expressed scepticism.
[18:16:21] ‹vagman13›
[18:16:38] ‹ddevans96› hm
[18:16:46] ‹ddevans96› is anyone opposed to a jcj lynch?
[18:16:53] ‹kaempfer13› fair point
[18:17:21] ‹MasterWalks› The only scum i am reading from jcj is he is not as aggro as last game
[18:17:58] ‹kaempfer13› but many of the things that make jcj look scummy are explainable with things not related to things that are different this game
[18:18:06] ‹MasterWalks› thats not even really scummy. dude has said he wont be that active until monday and that all posts are coming from his phone
[18:18:42] ‹MasterWalks› i guess i would say i am against a jcj lynch
[18:18:44] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› I asked somewhere earlier when there was no real motivation to lynch what we could gain from it. But neither votes for nor by him seem to be doing anything.
[18:19:49] ‹moehrpi› ‹@MasterWalks› I am against most if not all lynches. But I am against no-lynch.
[18:19:49] ‹ddevans96› okay. is anyone opposed to a MW lynch?
[18:19:54] ‹ddevans96› (MW need not answer)
[18:20:03] ‹MasterWalks› yes i am
[18:20:07] ‹MasterWalks› oh
[18:20:12] ‹ddevans96› :thinking:
[18:20:51] ‹Calindu› I don't find jcj scummy tbh, I don't think activity is a good way of deciding a lynch
[18:21:11] ‹ddevans96› I have a scumread on jcj unrelated to activity
[18:21:24] ‹iancudorinmarian› Same
[18:21:30] ‹kaempfer13› I have no strong feelings about any lynch (but my own ofc)
[18:21:50] ‹ddevans96› it's very light, but so is every other read for me rn
[18:22:16] ‹kaempfer13› day 1lynch is basically always going to be town, since mafia can easily counterbalance things
[18:22:28] ‹moehrpi› For my liking MW is too easily swayed. Then again I might be the same if I didn't just vote on anyone and decided to give it some time aterwards. I don't think it's scummy.
[18:22:31] ‹MasterWalks› not if we lynch espi it wont be town
[18:22:39] ‹kaempfer13› although if they do it too much it betrays them
[18:22:46] ‹ddevans96› essentially, yes, town lynch d1 is highly likely
[18:22:51] ‹moehrpi› Although some arguments seemed to have some holes, again not scummy.
[18:23:29] ‹ddevans96› so new question: how many people have their vote on someone that isn't their biggest scumread?
[18:24:01] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› I do.
[18:24:39] ‹ddevans96› if you could choose any lynch, who would it be?
[18:25:31] ‹kaempfer13› I guess I could say mw isnt my biggest scumread rn, but alternatives arent much more scummy to me
[18:25:47] ‹ddevans96› who are your alternatives?
[18:26:21] ‹ddevans96› bc it seems like we don't really want to lynch either MW or jcj, and obviously I don't want to lynch myself, so is there any other option?
[18:26:48] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› how does one revise anatomy, theres so much info
[18:26:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› like its not going to stay in my brain
[18:27:12] ‹kaempfer13› I wanted to have another take of root, but most of that is an inkling feeling he lost his skills
[18:27:21] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› I could drop a few names but it would most likely be related to activity and wouldn't do the others justice as it is a very weak read if you can call it that.
[18:27:38] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[18:27:40] ‹ddevans96› Root is insanely smart, no way he lost his sense of logic
[18:27:53] ‹ddevans96› that was suggested yesterday do, I don't know that I buy it
[18:28:12] ‹kaempfer13› last mafia i didnt realize he was confirmed towny for the longest time as mobian seemed like an obvious scumread
[18:28:16] ‹Calindu› Root appears to be very quiet, but I don't believe he'll play like that if he were mafia
[18:28:18] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Studying usually helps.
[18:28:44] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› Has anyone seen ARTH or aves around? I'm curious where we stand on brawl stuff.
[18:28:47] ‹MasterWalks› If we were lynching for information, i think ian would give us some decent info. If we were lynching for reactions, not too sure. If we were lynching for mafia kill, espi would be the best target.
[18:28:52] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@moehrpi› it doesnt help
[18:28:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ive been trying
[18:29:00] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› ARTH just posted
[18:29:22] ‹ddevans96› I think the strongest read in the game is you on Espi
[18:29:25] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› read the forum post before you lel
[18:29:30] ‹ddevans96› with the second being shock on iancu
[18:29:43] ‹ddevans96› that's the only two reads that have been strongly pushed
[18:29:57] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› how much time till day end?
[18:29:57] ‹Kameqo› Is this ToS?
[18:29:59] ‹kaempfer13› those are the ones with the most confidence behind them i guess
[18:30:17] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› In the few seconds it took to go from forum to here he posted. It wasnt there a minute ago when I checked.
[18:30:18] ‹ddevans96› I think one of them makes the most sense to lynch - but we'd have to get all the votes on them from 0
[18:30:20] ‹iancudorinmarian› shock's vote is random at best
[18:30:22] ‹kaempfer13› but from players who quickly latch onto things
[18:30:28] ‹MasterWalks› i honestly think shock wants ian lynched for info, not a mafia read
[18:30:54] ‹ddevans96› maybe, but that's not what he's claiming
[18:30:59] ‹Calindu› I hardly believe we'll get much info by lynching ian
[18:31:15] ‹MasterWalks› shock is always like 70% lies 30% truth
[18:32:38] ‹Calindu› This vote feels random
[18:33:16] ‹kaempfer13› yh, basically makes it impossible to lynch anyone else, there was no need for it
[18:33:23] ‹ddevans96› yeah, that severely limits the chance of me not getting lynched - it's not a hammer but it may as well be one
[18:33:34] ‹ddevans96› we kinda have to go for jcj or MW now
[18:33:48] ‹ddevans96› and we'd need 2/3 people to do it
[18:34:49] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› this is so fun to watch when you know who the mafia is :sillyspin:
[18:34:52] ‹Espithel› I am 100% opposed to a Walk lynch.
[18:34:56] ‹kaempfer13› well i suppose thats one way to restore balance; sortof
[18:35:11] ‹ddevans96› yeah, I don't think a MW lynch is in the cards this round anyways
[18:35:14] ‹Calindu› I don't think lynching MW is a good idea for this round, he's playing too aggro to be mafia
[18:35:19] ‹Espithel› Jcj is fine. Evans is fine. Ian is fine. I don't like how wishy-washy we're being.
[18:35:33] ‹Espithel› (fine to lynch)
[18:35:39] ‹ddevans96› it's not really wishy washy, this feels pretty standard
[18:35:51] ‹ddevans96› 1) early push and you (and kinda) MW
[18:35:55] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@Espithel› your face is fine
[18:35:58] ‹ddevans96› 2) strong push on me
[18:36:03] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ian, did i do that right
[18:36:08] ‹ddevans96› 3) attempted organized push on someone else
[18:36:23] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› *sigh*
[18:36:52] ‹Calindu› Why are you guys seeing jcj as scummy?
[18:37:18] ‹iancudorinmarian› Remember how last game he was all like "Let's not lynch D1, let's wait for more info"
[18:37:23] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› how many mafia are there
[18:37:25] ‹iancudorinmarian› Now he actually wants a D1 lynch.
[18:37:33] ‹ddevans96› 4 mafia, 15 others
[18:37:36] ‹Espithel› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› 4
[18:37:37] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dunno, it's a thin line, but it's something.
[18:37:38] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› 4
[18:37:40] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› cool
[18:38:16] ‹ddevans96› his three reads stated in his last post (excluding me) are all opposite of mine - that means there's a perspective different somewhere
[18:38:30] ‹Calindu› Well, I haven't played last game, but I believe info is more useful when you can PM
[18:38:32] ‹ddevans96› probably nothing, could be something - 'could be something' is just the best we can do rn
[18:38:45] ‹Calindu› So you can maybe afford to take it slower
[18:39:09] ‹Espithel› We probably are stressing too much about the day 1 lynch, to be honest.
[18:39:11] ‹iancudorinmarian› I don't have any strong reads.
[18:39:26] ‹iancudorinmarian› And the only reason I previously voted for dd is to have a D1 lynch.
[18:40:01] ‹MasterWalks› If the vote is tied, does the deadline postpone or do we No Lynch?
[18:40:10] ‹ddevans96› we no lynch
[18:40:18] ‹ddevans96› so we don't want a tied vote in...20 minutes
[18:40:31] ‹MasterWalks› ok we need to break this tie
[18:40:43] ‹Espithel› On it
[18:40:45] ‹MasterWalks› I hate both targets
[18:40:57] ‹Calindu› There are 6 people that haven't voted yet
[18:41:06] ‹MasterWalks› thats fine. It hides garboid
[18:41:11] ‹kaempfer13› as in you want both dead or really like them?
[18:41:23] ‹MasterWalks› No i want neither of them lynched
[18:41:39] ‹MasterWalks› I like the people lol
[18:41:45] ‹MasterWalks› i hate the votes
[18:42:01] ‹Calindu› It hides graboid, but you don't need that many people hiding the graboid
[18:42:33] ‹ddevans96› agreed with Cal, ideally some of these non-voters vote soon
[18:42:44] ‹kaempfer13› there is a 1/3 chance mafia already found graboid
[18:42:46] ‹Espithel› I'll last-second vote if there's atie to begin the overtime.
[18:42:46] ‹ddevans96› I'd say 3-4 people defending graboid is optimal
[18:43:08] ‹ddevans96› oh, yeah, the deadline does move back slightly, to prevent vote-sniping at the very end
[18:43:10] ‹Espithel› ‹@kaempfer13› Because of the nk failing, right?
[18:43:16] ‹kaempfer13› if it even exists
[18:43:23] ‹kaempfer13› yh
[18:43:34] ‹ddevans96› yeah, that's true, actually - that is one explanation for the lack of NK
[18:44:08] ‹Espithel› The other one is a blind heal, which I find hilariously unlikely but possible
[18:44:20] ‹ddevans96› it is technically a 1/19 chance
[18:44:40] ‹ddevans96› absurd, yeah, but it's mafia, sometimes you succeed on dumb luck
[18:44:53] ‹kaempfer13› there is eraph and guard i think
[18:45:13] ‹ddevans96› those are the other options, yeah - I think that's all of them
[18:45:16] ‹iancudorinmarian› Guard protects against NK?\
[18:45:19] ‹ddevans96› unless they just...didn't send one in
[18:45:37] ‹MasterWalks› there is no way they didnt send one in
[18:45:48] ‹Espithel› Inb4 sub's a bastard mod
[18:45:49] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@iancudorinmarian› its higher on prio list
[18:45:56] ‹iancudorinmarian› I don't think Guard blocks NK
[18:46:05] ‹iancudorinmarian› NK is not a secondary ability
[18:46:15] ‹ddevans96› yeah, rereading the ability, it definitely does
[18:46:26] ‹MasterWalks› Iridium ward? nahh that doesnt block NK. I had that ability last game
[18:47:22] ‹kaempfer13› damn should have really asked for clarification on that
[18:47:40] ‹kaempfer13› but guard not actually guarding is kinda weird
[18:47:53] ‹Espithel› 13 minutes until surprise buttsex tiebreaker vote.
[18:47:59] ‹moehrpi› I am very sure guard does nt affect NK.
[18:48:09] ‹MasterWalks› kinda. Its a roleblocking ability which some of us agreed not to use N0
[18:48:15] ‹ddevans96› it definitely does not*
[18:48:21] ‹ddevans96› sorry
[18:48:26] ‹ddevans96› i.e. I'm with iancu
[18:48:39] ‹Espithel› So, seraph, graboid, mafia's retarded
[18:48:51] ‹ddevans96› basically, yeah
[18:49:12] ‹moehrpi› Seraph, Grab, GA
[18:49:12] ‹Calindu› GA is also a possibility
[18:49:22] ‹Espithel› GA?
[18:49:29] ‹Calindu› Guardian Angel
[18:49:30] ‹Espithel› Wait, seraph and GA are different roles?
[18:49:31] ‹Espithel› fuck me
[18:49:31] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@MasterWalks› i specifically explained why guard is the exception to the rule (whether it protects from the nightkill or not it gives quite a bit of information on use)
[18:50:05] ‹Calindu› I'd argue GA is just as likely as Seraph or Graboid
[18:50:11] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› It does not protect.
[18:50:28] ‹Espithel› Seraph/Graboid is more likely than GA, imo
[18:50:45] ‹Espithel› When you have healers, there's a WIFOM game of "do we heal someone good, or someone less important"
[18:50:55] ‹Calindu› No, think about it this way
[18:51:18] ‹Calindu› Mafia hitting graboid is a 1/19 chance
[18:51:30] ‹Calindu› Mafia hitting a target protected by GA is still 1/19
[18:51:58] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Calindu› That is true only if you are town.
[18:52:07] ‹Espithel› Yeah, but it's not 1/19.
[18:52:13] ‹Espithel› Because of the WIFOM game.
[18:52:18] ‹moehrpi› If you are mafia you know whether one of you is Grab/Serpah/GA and can skew the odds.
[18:52:47] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› WIFOM still results in a nash equilibrium.
[18:52:47] ‹Calindu› That's true, yeah, didn't consider that, but I still think it's comparable
[18:53:03] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Calindu› It absolutely is.
[18:53:29] ‹MasterWalks› we REALLY need a different target than jcj or dd
[18:53:42] ‹Calindu› Also, consider that it's more likely GA targets an experienced player, I believe mafia would do the same
[18:54:06] ‹ddevans96› I don't think we're getting one
[18:54:17] ‹moehrpi› ‹@MasterWalks› Any other suggestions, like yourself?
[18:54:46] ‹MasterWalks› It would not be wise to lynch me but its honeslty better than those 2.
[18:55:05] ‹Espithel› No it's not!
[18:55:15] ‹Espithel› Because you're 1000000,00000% town!
[18:55:21] ‹Espithel› Stop being suicidal walks
[18:55:22] ‹Espithel› aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[18:55:25] ‹MasterWalks› Espi, Kaempf, ian, insig,
[18:55:26] ‹Mobian› Why so sure, Espi?
[18:55:31] ‹MasterWalks› all better than those 2
[18:56:06] ‹moehrpi› ‹@iancudorinmarian› ‹@ddevans96› Can you give further explanation to your JCJ scum-read other than he flip-flopped between lynch/no-lynch?
[18:56:24] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dunno, it's a hunch.
[18:56:30] ‹Mobian› It should be known that in 5 mins, unless someone votes on either JCJ or ddevans, or removes a vote from them, no lynch will occur
[18:56:36] ‹MasterWalks› god damnit
[18:56:49] ‹moehrpi› ‹@MasterWalks› jester
[18:56:51] ‹Espithel› If that happens, I'm going to last-second vote, mob
[18:56:54] ‹Espithel› Don't worry
[18:56:58] ‹MasterWalks› ian, vote someone else. JCJ is afk and moving and typing from a phone
[18:57:01] ‹ddevans96› already did so
[18:57:08] ‹ddevans96› the flip-flop isn't my scumread
[18:57:42] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-25 11:38:16] ‹ddevans96› his three reads stated in his last post (excluding me) are all opposite of mine - that means there's a perspective different somewhere [2019-05-25 11:38:32] ‹ddevans96› probably nothing, could be something - 'could be something' is just the best we can do rn
[18:57:44] ‹moehrpi› I don't think ian is mafia. The claim of a blocked role makes me think otherwise. I am closely watching, however.
[18:57:52] ‹kaempfer13› wasnt there a rule for 5 minute extension with each vote?
[18:58:01] ‹Espithel› Yes. kae.
[18:58:07] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@MasterWalks› That has nothing to do with my scumread on him
[18:58:19] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› He's tunneling on me extremely hard.
[18:58:38] ‹Espithel› He's putting himself in stupidly large amounts of risk in doing so. If he's mafia, there is absolutely no reason to.
[18:58:43] ‹iancudorinmarian› Plus, he can then focus on moving :D
[18:58:45] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› Thanks for the quote. Totally slipped my mind.
[18:58:49] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Espithel› you need to vote now to reset timer, btw
[18:58:49] ‹Espithel› It could be argued that it'd be actively hurting the mafia if he was.
[18:59:17] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[18:59:45] ‹Mobian› 1 min
[18:59:47] ‹Espithel› So, if walks is mafia, he's braindead. Walks isn't braindead.
[18:59:54] ‹Espithel› So I'm like pretty sure he's town.
[19:00:36] ‹Mobian› True to your word, last fucking second
[19:00:52] ‹Espithel› gottem
[19:01:35] ‹MasterWalks› Lets take bets on what role jcj has. I bet GA
[19:01:41] ‹iancudorinmarian› lol
[19:01:44] ‹kaempfer13› my time reset vote would have been even closer, but thereis no need now
[19:02:17] ‹ddevans96› BY GOD, THAT'S SHOCKCANNON'S MUSIC
[19:02:18] ‹MasterWalks› DAMNIT SHOCK
[19:02:21] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› lmao
[19:02:27] ‹kaempfer13› I like JcJ as a person, so a little sad, but no ingamerelated objections here
[19:02:43] ‹kaempfer13› huh
[19:02:49] ‹Mobian› DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMNNNNNNN
[19:02:58] ‹Mobian› Shock swoops in with a save
[19:03:33] ‹MasterWalks› I object lynching JCJ but i think its better than dd
[19:03:37] ‹moehrpi› ‹@shockcannon› Did you put in that vote because of your scum-read on iancu?
[19:04:03] ‹shockcannon› I put that in so we don’t lunch
[19:04:10] ‹shockcannon› Lynch
[19:04:18] ‹MasterWalks› wy
[19:04:19] ‹MasterWalks› why
[19:04:26] ‹MasterWalks› no lynch is a terrible idea
[19:04:31] ‹kaempfer13› I do wonder actually
[19:04:40] ‹iancudorinmarian› shock doing shock things again
[19:04:41] ‹MasterWalks› litterally everyone is opposed to it. Thats probably why you want to. Hipster
[19:04:46] ‹Mobian› MW counter'd your play, shock
[19:04:48] ‹shockcannon› Ian you’re mad. Shut up
[19:04:54] ‹shockcannon› Maf*
[19:05:00] ‹Mobian› Not everyone, MW....
[19:05:06] ‹kaempfer13› weve seen most of the information we could get from the lynch other than the roleflipping on death
[19:05:14] ‹MasterWalks› you want no lynch too?
[19:05:21] ‹MasterWalks› why tf do you want no lynch
[19:05:24] ‹kaempfer13› not really
[19:05:46] ‹Mobian› Because we don't have much intel to accuse anyone on
[19:05:46] ‹ddevans96› I mean, I'm fundamentally opposed to no lynch, but I do see why people aren't
[19:05:48] ‹ddevans96› for d1 at least
[19:06:01] ‹Mobian› At this point it's all just bickering
[19:06:06] ‹MasterWalks› Yea and we will have less if we dont lynch
[19:06:06] ‹kaempfer13› roleflipping and the chance of getting mafia should be worth it
[19:07:01] ‹moehrpi› Maybe I should vote shock...
[19:07:14] ‹Mobian› But on D1 without any confirmed intel we're just shooting blind
[19:07:18] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› do eetttt
[19:07:20] ‹kaempfer13› from a statistical perspective town has to always lynch
[19:07:24] ‹MasterWalks› dont you dare move your vote
[19:07:38] ‹Mobian› Sure, we MIGHT hit a mafia, but it's more likely to kill a town
[19:07:54] ‹kaempfer13› but psychology makes everything muddy
[19:07:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› "[19:06:06] ‹MasterWalks› Yea and we will have less if we dont lynch" thats wrong btw, though i probs cant talk much cause im not playing in this one
[19:07:57] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› Do you want to know the best way to get confirmed intel?
[19:07:58] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› No, odds change/improve on later days.
[19:07:59] ‹Espithel› Killing people.
[19:08:20] ‹MasterWalks› I agree 1000% with espi
[19:08:39] ‹ddevans96› day is now final, I believe
[19:08:54] ‹Mobian› Perhaps, but it doesn't sit right with me
[19:09:01] ‹ddevans96› shock's vote is late lmao
[19:09:04] ‹Mobian› I need to go to the bank. Back in a bit
[19:09:36] ‹kaempfer13› yep on my clock shock votedtoo late
[19:09:46] ‹MasterWalks› lol shock was late by 30 sec
[19:10:01] ‹MasterWalks› need to practice you typing speed shock
[19:10:11] ‹shockcannon› I was late on purpose
[19:10:20] ‹PlayerOa› Oh wow that's a lot of chat history to read :silly:
[19:10:23] ‹ddevans96› for memes? understandable
[19:10:28] ‹shockcannon› I had a last minute idea
[19:10:29] ‹Kameqo› Right?
[19:10:42] ‹iancudorinmarian› 25 seconds late lul
[19:10:46] ‹Calindu› rip
[19:10:50] ‹kaempfer13› damn he really was ga
[19:10:58] ‹Kameqo› GA?
[19:10:59] ‹iancudorinmarian› wow
[19:11:05] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-25 12:01:35] ‹MasterWalks› Lets take bets on what role jcj has. I bet GA < lmao, good call
[19:11:13] ‹MasterWalks› :D
[19:11:43] ‹MasterWalks› lol sub and link about to feud
[19:11:53] ‹Espithel› Hm.
[19:11:59] ‹Espithel› Is it possible that jcj was the nightkill?
[19:12:04] ‹Espithel› Can he protect himself?
[19:12:25] ‹PlayerOa› Angel??
[19:12:26] ‹iancudorinmarian› yeah
[19:12:44] ‹Espithel› Because if they can that would actually make GA as equal to block the nightkill as grabby
[19:13:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› LOL
[19:13:30] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Espithel› only every other round on same target
[19:13:36] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› I don't think you understand how numbers work.
[19:13:59] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Numbers are those things that go up and down
[19:14:05] ‹Espithel› Right?
[19:14:38] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› Yes, also lifts.
[19:15:32] ‹Espithel› Do lifts rotate into another dimension if you multiply them by the square root of -1?
[19:16:11] ‹Kameqo› Is this ToS?
[19:16:39] ‹Kameqo› Also I love that math joke
[19:16:41] ‹kaempfer13› ToS is also a mafiastyle game so sorta
[19:16:54] ‹Kameqo› Good stuff man that was great
[19:16:59] ‹Kameqo› Imaginary numbers are wack
[19:17:01] ‹Kameqo› What game is this?
[19:17:21] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› etg
[19:17:39] ‹Kameqo› Ethyl glucuronide?
[19:17:57] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› elements the game
[19:18:02] ‹moehrpi› It's mafia.
[19:18:58] ‹Kameqo› Just called mafia?
[19:19:17] ‹moehrpi› Yep.
[19:19:25] ‹moehrpi› Or werewolves.
[19:19:26] ‹Kameqo› Mk
[19:19:39] ‹Kameqo› Wait what
[19:20:01] ‹kaempfer13› there are many names for games in its style, but this standard mafia with etgthemed secondary roles
[19:20:01] ‹moehrpi› Two different names for the same game.
[19:20:33] ‹Kameqo› Ohhh okay
[19:20:39] ‹Kameqo› That's pretty cool
[19:20:45] ‹Kameqo› How have you guys been playing it?
[19:21:04] ‹moehrpi› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-game...
[19:21:10] ‹kaempfer13› dreadfully, we killed one of our best allies
[19:21:37] ‹Mobian› Yup, we surely did
[19:22:02] ‹Espithel› So.
[19:22:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› maybe its not your ally :sillyspin:
[19:22:17] ‹Espithel› ‹@MasterWalks› You want me roleblocked, yeah?
[19:22:20] ‹Espithel› Any particular reason?
[19:22:38] ‹MasterWalks› Cuz your mafia and you didnt get lynched
[19:22:42] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› in mafia you are always town  :sillyspin:
[19:22:53] ‹Espithel› I think you should be roleblocked because you're mafia and you didn't get lynched.
[19:23:07] ‹Espithel› :^)
[19:23:57] ‹MasterWalks› vaild point
[19:23:59] ‹Mobian› Or you're both mafia, and bussing each other
[19:24:16] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[19:24:24] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› or everyones a town this game because bastard mod
[19:24:27] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› that'd be very fun
[19:24:55] ‹MasterWalks› we arent throwing each other under the bus, we are jumping under it together.
[19:25:22] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› the point of the game is to figure it out before we killed 11 people  :sillyspin:
[19:25:22] ‹Mobian› I still wish Manny was playing
[19:25:41] ‹Espithel› Could you at least throw me under a train, at least?
[19:25:48] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Mobian› A man can dream...
[19:26:13] ‹MasterWalks› I asked him but no response :/ He would probably just vote and not explain anything.
[19:26:45] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› he'd find a way to troll
[19:26:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› i petition to be put into this mafia as the roll that wasnt used
[19:27:27] ‹Calindu› The roles are random, so there could be multiple of one role
[19:27:34] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oh
[19:27:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› rip
[19:27:40] ‹Mobian› Who are you?
[19:27:48] ‹MasterWalks› "If I jOiN MaFiA i WiLl JoIn OtHeR eVeNtS"
[19:27:50] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› inb4 dd and jcj both GA :sillyspin:
[19:28:11] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› its w3 on a new device
[19:28:24] ‹Mobian› Ah
[19:33:43] ‹kaempfer13› Also sorry JcJ
[19:34:17] ‹kaempfer13› maybe one day we'll be on the same team and you wont become irrelevant/inactive day 1
[19:34:24] ‹Mobian› No point in apologizing to a corpse.
[19:34:50] ‹shockcannon› You idiots
[19:35:02] ‹Espithel› YOU FLAMING IDIOTS
[19:35:03] ‹Espithel› TAKE THIS!
[19:35:31] ‹iancudorinmarian› kae mafia confirmed?
[19:35:51] ‹Espithel› ...Actually, yeah.
[19:35:55] ‹Espithel› Kae, that's a bit of an awkward thing to say.
[19:36:13] ‹kaempfer13› ya, but we get along pretty well and yet failed to ever work together in team games, even though war and pipeworks both were great opportunities
[19:36:29] ‹Mobian› I did apologize to MW after I got him killed...
[19:36:38] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› learn2read, nubs
[19:36:46] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Yeah, I know
[19:36:54] ‹Espithel› I'm not going to make a thing out of it.
[19:37:03] ‹Espithel› But damn that could be taken the wrong way
[19:37:29] ‹Espithel› Also only Daddy Shock gets to call me a noob >:(
[19:38:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@iancudorinmarian› okay what was your sus of jcj then if it wasnt about the afk
[19:39:23] ‹iancudorinmarian› I told you, it was a hunch
[19:39:30] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[19:39:33] ‹iancudorinmarian› A bad one, as it turns out.
[19:41:15] ‹Linkcat› Fuck
[19:41:21] ‹Linkcat› I missed deadline
[19:41:28] ‹Linkcat› Who died?
[19:41:35] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› You were the one that actually chose to lynch JCJ
[19:41:35] ‹Mobian› JCJ
[19:41:36] ‹moehrpi› GA
[19:41:37] ‹moehrpi› JCJ
[19:41:38] ‹Calindu› ‹@Linkcat› JCJ
[19:41:39] ‹Calindu› GA
[19:41:42] ‹moehrpi› Your vote did not matter.
[19:41:48] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› shit
[19:41:50] ‹Mobian› Town
[19:42:04] ‹Espithel› You know who we should've lynched?
[19:42:06] ‹Espithel› Sub.
[19:42:12] ‹Linkcat› Good shit guys
[19:42:39] ‹Espithel› oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[19:42:42] ‹Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Spicy
[19:42:53] ‹Espithel› Was it himself?
[19:43:13] ‹Espithel› ...I like how that looks like a sword.
[19:43:34] ‹Espithel› ooooo(OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[19:43:48] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Calindu› I voted to break tie
[19:43:58] ‹MasterWalks› any lynch is better than no lynch
[19:44:37] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› I still disagree.
[19:44:55] ‹Linkcat› I probably would have just kept my vote on dd.
[19:44:58] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› But you could have chosen to lynch dd instead
[19:45:18] ‹Linkcat› Well, I need to go to a party, will check in later.
[19:45:57] ‹MasterWalks› I figured jcj to still be better than dd
[19:46:05] ‹kaempfer13› deja vu; nk failing on jcj n0
[19:46:22] ‹MasterWalks› idk anymore but dd seemed less sus than jcj
[19:46:47] ‹Calindu› That's what I don't get, why jcj was seen a better lynch than dd
[19:47:28] ‹Espithel› dd is "helpful to the town"
[19:47:30] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[19:47:39] ‹MasterWalks› jcj was very little help last game iirc.
[19:47:39] ‹Espithel› Or, rather.
[19:47:44] ‹Espithel› "more helpful to the town"
[19:47:44] ‹MasterWalks› and he was totally active
[19:47:45] ‹Calindu› I feel like he was chosen in the end because it was easy to coordinate on him, he was not here, he didn't really communicate much
[19:48:13] ‹Calindu› It doesn't matter who's more helpful, it matters who is more likely to be mafia
[19:48:14] ‹MasterWalks› I disagree. For me anyways, i just saw more value in dd
[19:48:20] ‹Espithel› This is true.
[19:48:28] ‹MasterWalks› Well if that was the case, yall shouldve voted espi
[19:48:34] ‹Espithel› As in, mafia being more likely is more important.
[19:48:37] ‹MasterWalks› but nooo i have tunnel vision
[19:48:59] ‹Espithel› https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_-NIo79GfwbA%2FTAC9ErCXQcI%2FAAAAAAAAG9g%2FwAHfS9F3og4%2Fs1600%2FNew%2Btunnel.jpg&f=1
[19:49:40] ‹Calindu› Because you did tunnel vision, you probably saw something small and you just followed that
[19:49:56] ‹Calindu› I saw no real reason why you think Espithel is mafia
[19:51:18] ‹kaempfer13› how can ian actually know who jcj targeted if his ability failed?
[19:51:34] ‹kaempfer13› i guess he couldve lied once
[19:51:39] ‹Mobian› 1
[19:52:26] ‹Calindu› Maybe ian targeted someone and his ability failed because of GA
[19:52:52] ‹iancudorinmarian› I'm not saying any more, but it should be easy to figure out.
[19:53:59] ‹Espithel› Stop giving shock justifiable positions
[19:54:00] ‹Espithel› >:(
[19:54:02] ‹kaempfer13› oh ga prevents offensive roles too
[19:54:15] ‹Calindu› Well, it's either him or the person you targeted
[19:54:22] ‹MasterWalks› I think shock is FFQ, if thats worth anything
[19:55:03] ‹Calindu› Why is that?
[19:55:31] ‹Espithel› Yeah, that seems plausible. FFQ over dragonfly, though?
[19:55:34] ‹kaempfer13› if so and dd is to be trusted he very likely only knows that dd neither acted nor was acted on
[19:55:52] ‹shockcannon› Wanna hear a hot take?
[19:55:54] ‹kaempfer13› ofc multiple ffq are possible
[19:56:01] ‹shockcannon› 3 mafia voted on JCJ
[19:56:21] ‹kaempfer13› very hot indeed
[19:56:25] ‹iancudorinmarian› Then mafia are incredibly stupid.
[19:56:34] ‹ddevans96› make sure all of this gets logged, I'm packing for the weekend
[19:56:40] ‹ddevans96› I'll respond to the log later
[19:56:45] ‹kaempfer13› i dont think theyd expose themselves that much
[19:56:49] ‹Espithel› THERE'S TOO MUCH TO LOG
[19:56:51] ‹Espithel› AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[19:56:52] ‹MasterWalks› He wants several rounds to info dump, he probably targeted high risk people first round hence targeting dd, and he is being carefully reckless
[19:56:52] ‹shockcannon› Mafia went for the double mindgate
[19:57:04] ‹moehrpi› Well, if dd is mafia there is at least one more mafia on the train.
[19:57:21] ‹moehrpi› me, root, ian, espi
[19:57:25] ‹moehrpi› not counting mw
[19:57:40] ‹ddevans96› (bonus: highlight things in the log you want my response to)
[19:58:12] ‹kaempfer13› a mafia member is fairly unlikely to catch a firefly imo, although its easy to lie about it ofc
[19:58:27] ‹Calindu› But if shock targeted dd, then the only info he could have gotten is that dd didn't use any ability and was not targeted by one either
[19:58:28] ‹moehrpi› I am also struggling to see how ian can know JCJ target.
[19:59:08] ‹moehrpi› Unless he tried to poison/eat someone, he can see if he was healed?, his mafia buddies told him.
[19:59:15] ‹Calindu› ‹@kaempfer13› I don't think it's easy to lie about it, I don't see FFQ as a powerful role, I'd gladly sacrifice myself as a FFQ to out a mafia
[20:00:39] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@moehrpi› guard and gotp are also offensive roles
[20:00:57] ‹moehrpi› not blocked by heal
[20:01:07] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:01:37] ‹kaempfer13› i reread it to check if it can block roles, seems to state all offensive ones
[20:01:39] ‹Calindu› I think they are blocked by heal
[20:02:35] ‹kaempfer13› squid and flayer would be scummy to use though
[20:03:12] ‹moehrpi› Heal has a lower priority. That wouldn't make sense.
[20:03:48] ‹moehrpi› So the only way it can fail is if it targets someone who was healed the night before or the same night?
[20:03:57] ‹kaempfer13› oh forgot about priorities
[20:04:31] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› why dont you all talk in thread
[20:04:41] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› its eassier then chatting in here and copying this to thread
[20:04:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› (for people who arent here)
[20:04:52] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› chat log is so ugly
[20:05:20] ‹MasterWalks› Its easier to speculate here
[20:05:53] ‹kaempfer13› for quick talking forum requires too much refreshing
[20:06:07] ‹iancudorinmarian› Channeled my inner shock
[20:06:14] ‹MasterWalks› Some of us should list scum reads in the forum tho. Like a full list of all reads they have
[20:06:38] ‹Mobian› Yup, when I run a game, I'd like to use a separate discord channel
[20:06:48] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› in my maf, ill ban chat talk. While it has its benefits, people who arent as active and cant be in chat all the time, its an annoyance to them
[20:07:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› but im never hosting a maf
[20:07:13] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› so ill just have to be FGO and then do a link and veto anything else
[20:07:50] ‹iancudorinmarian› tbh, I'm fine with a chatlog instead of just having 20 pages each day.
[20:08:01] ‹Calindu› ‹@iancudorinmarian› As random as that may seem, I actually kind of agree with that lol
[20:08:16] ‹Linkcat› Lmao
[20:08:19] ‹Linkcat› True
[20:08:39] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› But what if you want to bandwagon your GA within 30 minutes and need four more votes?
[20:09:11] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@moehrpi› wat
[20:09:37] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› go beg in thread. chat's fine for small mafia related qs here and there
[20:09:44] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› not for a full on discussion and thoughts
[20:09:48] ‹MasterWalks› Chat log is friendlier for mobile than forum
[20:09:51] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› wat 'wat'?
[20:09:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› much easier to read posts then a chat log
[20:10:03] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› *than
[20:10:35] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› i hate how chat log looks on forum, its so ugly
[20:10:43] ‹Calindu› It's easier to communicate in small messages than wall of texts
[20:10:47] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and having to see who typed each chat message is a pain too
[20:10:59] ‹MasterWalks› Just post a series of screen shots
[20:11:13] ‹MasterWalks› can w3 participate by posting all the chat logs?
[20:11:20] ‹moehrpi› If you need to read up forum is easier. The information in chat is just so light.
[20:11:23] ‹Linkcat› Sure
[20:11:38] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› there, i got you into mafia
[20:11:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› no
[20:11:51] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› im not posting chatlogs ew
[20:11:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› so ugly
[20:12:14] ‹MasterWalks› Make them beautiful! you are a model after all
[20:12:14] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Make them pretty! With colours! :)
[20:12:25] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› no ew
[20:14:18] ‹MasterWalks› damnit mobian. not again
[20:14:39] ‹Calindu› Wow
[20:15:42] ‹PlayerOa› Can't help but seeing that as kind of a red flag
[20:15:59] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› In regards to my salt or ian's asinine accusation?
[20:16:49] ‹MasterWalks› salt
[20:17:02] ‹MasterWalks› Mobian? more like Mortons
[20:17:25] ‹Mobian› I do live in Salt Lake City
[20:17:33] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› Mafia is in the drivers seat right now and they’re in fourth gear
[20:18:12] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› But are they smart enough to kill me enough before I lay down the road tacks?
[20:18:12] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› nope, im only third gear right now
[20:18:15] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› got more gears to go
[20:20:28] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› In all seriousness, though, what new intel have we gained, aside from knowing we killed a friend?
[20:20:59] ‹kaempfer13› everyone that voted for him is more suspicious now
[20:23:31] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:23:42] ‹Mobian› Maybe
[20:24:50] ‹Mobian› My theory is shaping up to be a lil different. If I survive the next lynch, I'll put words to it
[20:25:20] ‹PlayerOa› Gj cillessen, I have money on Barcelona :(
[20:28:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@PlayerOa› wheres ter stegen?
[20:28:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and suarez
[20:29:58] ‹PlayerOa› Guess Cillessen is cup keeper
[20:30:02] ‹PlayerOa› Suarez no idea
[20:30:33] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› just read, stegen is injured
[20:30:36] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› Id say quite a bit. We have a possible answer for N0 no kill, sus of people who started the bandwagon, and tbh losing GA isnt all that bad since they cant protect GN
[20:31:03] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b›
[20:31:12] ‹MasterWalks› I mean its still bad we lost a town, but it wasnt the worst role to lose
[20:31:31] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Oh that's a shame, best gk in the world atm along with oblak imo
[20:31:34] ‹MasterWalks› sucks he couldnt defend himself
[20:32:22] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› hmm
[20:32:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ederson is really solid ngl
[20:32:54] ‹Calindu› Allison has also been there this year
[20:32:55] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and with kepa, you get additional bonus that you dont need a manager
[20:33:00] ‹Mobian› There is no defense against Lynch, aside from reason.
[20:33:17] ‹Calindu› And De Gea kind of sucked for the second part of the season
[20:33:24] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› yh
[20:33:30] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› most likely due to contract issues
[20:33:40] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› best to get rid of him and get some money
[20:33:50] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› You think so?
[20:33:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› romero is class, we can put romero as first choice for one season atleast
[20:34:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› while we rebuild the other aspects
[20:34:01] ‹PlayerOa› Romero is good yeah
[20:34:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› cause we desperately need CB, RB, midfield and RW
[20:34:12] ‹MasterWalks› him doing a role reveal wouldnt have been a terrible idea and would've likely saved him from lynch if he said he used it N0
[20:34:25] ‹PlayerOa› Sorting out RB, RW and CB is first priority
[20:34:26] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b›
[20:34:29] ‹PlayerOa› Fckkkkkk valencia 2-0
[20:34:39] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› midfield too imo
[20:34:42] ‹Calindu›
[20:34:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› midfield is shambles. we got no one
[20:34:51] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› herrera gone, matic too old no
[20:34:52] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› now*
[20:34:53] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Scott<3
[20:34:57] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› You guys are act so bad at mafia
[20:35:11] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› pogba needs to fix up a bit
[20:35:23] ‹Calindu› Pogba will leave too
[20:35:27] ‹PlayerOa› RB > RW > CB = CM
[20:35:33] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› yh, id cash in on pogba too
[20:35:39] ‹PlayerOa› If pogba leaves then CM first
[20:35:41] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[20:35:43] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› sell pogba lukaku degea, get money
[20:35:49] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› invest in youngsters
[20:35:53] ‹Mobian› Maybe short term, but if the mafia didn't kill him, everyone would accuse him of being dirty
[20:35:56] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› get deligt
[20:36:00] ‹PlayerOa› Daniel James looks interesting
[20:36:07] ‹PlayerOa› De ligt would be a dream...
[20:36:14] ‹PlayerOa› Along with Sancho
[20:36:26] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› theres a better chance now of de ligt coming to utd than before
[20:36:30] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› barca obvs still favs
[20:36:37] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› but the van de sar link will help
[20:36:48] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and he'll be our no1 for sure
[20:36:49] ‹PlayerOa› Seems like lfc's in the race too
[20:37:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› cant see de ligt going to lfc
[20:37:21] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› van de sar not gonna let him XD
[20:37:40] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› if barca lose this match today, theyre gonna go hard in transfer
[20:37:43] ‹PlayerOa› :D
[20:40:15] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› hopefully that will mean barca go for mbappe and griezzmans free for us LOL
[20:41:05] ‹Calindu› I can't see barca going for mbappe
[20:41:15] ‹Calindu› No way PSG lets him go there
[20:44:41] ‹PlayerOa› It's a shame ibra got his injury
[20:48:06] ‹MasterWalks› Someone want to chat log post this monster?
[20:48:21] ‹MasterWalks› conversation has shifted to soccer
[20:51:45] ‹Mobian› When I get home
[20:52:03] ‹Calindu› Did you just call football as soccer?
[20:52:20] ‹MasterWalks› U.S.A
[20:52:21] ‹Espithel› He's not mafia, but he's certainly scum.
[20:52:25] ‹Espithel› >:(
[20:52:26] ‹MasterWalks› I like the Chivas
[20:52:39] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ew
[20:55:36] ‹Mobian› He called it soccer, I call it pointless. FITE ME
[20:55:53] ‹MasterWalks› its not pointless
[20:55:58] ‹MasterWalks› the cleats have points on them
[20:56:16] ‹Calindu› You made a powerful enemy today
[20:56:38] ‹Mobian› ROFL
[20:58:06] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[21:00:36] ‹PlayerOa› I'm with you cal
[21:02:48] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[21:09:39] ‹MasterWalks› why do people have L/J on?
[21:10:42] ‹Calindu› Because I like to see when people join or leave
[21:11:57] ‹MasterWalks› it crowds it so bad tho and you can see whos here already
[21:12:04] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› news says utd very close to signing de ligt???
[21:12:10] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› why they getting my hopes up
[21:12:36] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Really?
[21:13:04] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› idk i just googled man utd
[21:13:06] ‹PlayerOa› Edwin's at the wheel
[21:13:09] ‹PlayerOa› lol
[21:13:18] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and first three articles said very close
[21:13:45] ‹Calindu› There's a very reputable source for that
[21:14:17] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Calindu› Which?
[21:14:29] ‹Calindu› Gerard Romero
[21:14:46] ‹Calindu› I heard he's pretty accurate for Barca news
[21:14:47] ‹PlayerOa› de Ligt has been liking an instagram post by Lukaku, lol
[21:14:49] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› on that note, bring edwin as technical director with you, de ligt
[21:15:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@PlayerOa› he also liked rio ferdinannds
[21:15:12] ‹Calindu› He said that de ligt got a very good offer from man utd
[21:15:15] ‹PlayerOa› Messi hits the post fml
[21:15:56] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› That's even more interesting tbh
[21:16:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› he'll be tested more if hes at utd, and i feel hes the kinda guy who will want that challenge. plus utd offer him more money for sure
[21:20:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› there arent many good RBs around this window are there?
[21:20:25] ‹PlayerOa› Wan Bissaka would be the most likely I guess
[21:20:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oh yh him
[21:20:44] ‹PlayerOa› pretty solid player
[21:23:10] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› why are transfers taking so long, hurry up teams, i want to see transfer business
[21:24:27] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Chief transfer muppet
[21:25:25] ‹PlayerOa› Nah just kidding. I'd like to see some business as well, looks like they're sorting out James at least
[21:26:51] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› not just from utd, but in general
[21:27:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› no signings so far
[21:27:34] ‹PlayerOa› Pulisic
[21:28:24] ‹Linkcat› I'm on mobile, someone post the chat log.
[21:29:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› pulisic got done before tho
[21:29:26] ‹PlayerOa› Yeah fair enough
[21:29:47] ‹PlayerOa› Dortmund had a couple nice ones
[21:29:54] ‹PlayerOa› Brandt and T. Hazard
[21:30:01] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oh yh
[21:32:01] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› seems like barca are only gonna win la liga this yr
[21:32:21] ‹PlayerOa› 2-1 gogogo
[21:32:27] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› the only thing i watched in la liga was the iago aspas story, what a guy
[21:32:28] ‹MasterWalks› Espithel
[21:32:30] ‹PlayerOa› nice jinx
[21:32:39] ‹MasterWalks› can you post since youve been here tho whole time?
[21:33:16] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› nw
[21:41:51] ‹Espithel› Post about what?
[21:42:15] ‹MasterWalks› the chat log
[21:43:12] ‹Espithel› I guess. Gimmie a sec.
[21:48:50] ‹shockcannon› lol jcj in chat
[21:48:54] ‹shockcannon› apologize to him now
[21:51:53] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b›
[21:56:04] ‹MasterWalks›
[21:58:29] ‹vagman13› aaw por jcj :(
[21:58:48] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› So much Amusement
[21:59:08] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@JonathanCrazyJ› Its just not meant to be
[22:00:00] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› Wish could say more
[22:00:18] ‹Espithel› ‹@JonathanCrazyJ› See you in forum brawl?
[22:00:55] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› 😘
[22:01:08] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› you can say more to me
[22:01:10] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› im not playing
[22:03:48] ‹vagman13› you arsefaces lynching jcjc, i said when in doubt , always lynch ian :sillyspin:
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 25, 2019, 09:28:05 pm
I updated the most recent lore to reflect last day's actions.

Only a few will understand the meme.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 10:02:40 pm
[16:43:26] ‹moehrpi› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Did you mention anywhere that you wouldn't be as active as last mafia? Or is it because dd and Link are already doing the lion's share of posting/analysis?
[16:43:54] ‹moehrpi› Maybe I am just confused that late-game iancu posted a lot more than early-game iancu does.
[16:45:07] ‹moehrpi› [22:47:54] ‹Espithel› 'The first mafia lynch is the biggest information dump in the game.' I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit. :)
[16:52:48] ‹iancudorinmarian› I can't contribute much tbh.
[16:53:04] ‹iancudorinmarian› I only really step forward when there's no discussion.
[16:58:23] ‹Guest-Archangel-5bddf› He’s mafia
[17:00:48] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[17:21:58] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[17:22:04] ‹Guest-FireflyQueen-3c571› hey
[17:32:14] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Sure. Until we know who a single mafia is, a lot of our information is weak because nothing's certain.
[17:32:33] ‹Espithel› Once we get the first lynch, we can look at how other people reacted to that mafia.
[17:33:06] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› That makes a lot of sense. I actually just misread.
[17:33:28] ‹moehrpi› I thought about the first Nightkill. Somehow I missed 'lynch'...
[17:33:49] ‹moehrpi› Thanks for clearing that up. :flinch:
[17:34:43] ‹Espithel› Another truism is that if we've got one scum, we can look at previous nightkills to try and see why the mafia killed those people. Maybe they said something another mafia member didn't like?
[17:35:46] ‹Espithel› We can't really do that until we've got one kill because of the good old toxic townie motif: I'm defending Walks super, super hard, for example. So if I flip scum, it's going to look real, real bad on him.
[17:35:58] ‹Espithel› Ditto cal/kae.
[17:36:26] ‹Espithel› Sometimes, the mafia like to use that to try and make somebody look scummy.
[17:48:03] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@Espithel› btw link said that there’s a chance that maf hasn’t voted
[17:48:11] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Not Evans
[17:52:18] ‹Espithel› fuck.
[17:52:28] ‹Espithel› Point remains!
[18:00:19] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[18:09:09] ‹kaempfer13› hm, I did say that i would move my lynch vote at the end of the day
[18:09:49] ‹kaempfer13› dont really feel comfortable with the choices though
[18:10:48] ‹kaempfer13› also kinda want to use the who function not for ingame reasons (atleast not really) but just to see how many people would be ready to react intime for the lynch
[18:12:58] ‹ddevans96› so what're we thinking?
[18:14:17] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› Is it the question whether you divulge information and it's bad if it doesn't lead to a lynch? If that is not the case do it now.
[18:16:05] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› No scum-read so far. I am a bit surprised to see Root without any votes while some people have expressed scepticism.
[18:16:21] ‹vagman13›
[18:16:38] ‹ddevans96› hm
[18:16:46] ‹ddevans96› is anyone opposed to a jcj lynch?
[18:16:53] ‹kaempfer13› fair point
[18:17:21] ‹MasterWalks› The only scum i am reading from jcj is he is not as aggro as last game
[18:17:58] ‹kaempfer13› but many of the things that make jcj look scummy are explainable with things not related to things that are different this game
[18:18:06] ‹MasterWalks› thats not even really scummy. dude has said he wont be that active until monday and that all posts are coming from his phone
[18:18:42] ‹MasterWalks› i guess i would say i am against a jcj lynch
[18:18:44] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› I asked somewhere earlier when there was no real motivation to lynch what we could gain from it. But neither votes for nor by him seem to be doing anything.
[18:19:49] ‹moehrpi› ‹@MasterWalks› I am against most if not all lynches. But I am against no-lynch.
[18:19:49] ‹ddevans96› okay. is anyone opposed to a MW lynch?
[18:19:54] ‹ddevans96› (MW need not answer)
[18:20:03] ‹MasterWalks› yes i am
[18:20:07] ‹MasterWalks› oh
[18:20:12] ‹ddevans96› :thinking:
[18:20:51] ‹Calindu› I don't find jcj scummy tbh, I don't think activity is a good way of deciding a lynch
[18:21:11] ‹ddevans96› I have a scumread on jcj unrelated to activity
[18:21:24] ‹iancudorinmarian› Same
[18:21:30] ‹kaempfer13› I have no strong feelings about any lynch (but my own ofc)
[18:21:50] ‹ddevans96› it's very light, but so is every other read for me rn
[18:22:16] ‹kaempfer13› day 1lynch is basically always going to be town, since mafia can easily counterbalance things
[18:22:28] ‹moehrpi› For my liking MW is too easily swayed. Then again I might be the same if I didn't just vote on anyone and decided to give it some time aterwards. I don't think it's scummy.
[18:22:31] ‹MasterWalks› not if we lynch espi it wont be town
[18:22:39] ‹kaempfer13› although if they do it too much it betrays them
[18:22:46] ‹ddevans96› essentially, yes, town lynch d1 is highly likely
[18:22:51] ‹moehrpi› Although some arguments seemed to have some holes, again not scummy.
[18:23:29] ‹ddevans96› so new question: how many people have their vote on someone that isn't their biggest scumread?
[18:24:01] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› I do.
[18:24:39] ‹ddevans96› if you could choose any lynch, who would it be?
[18:25:31] ‹kaempfer13› I guess I could say mw isnt my biggest scumread rn, but alternatives arent much more scummy to me
[18:25:47] ‹ddevans96› who are your alternatives?
[18:26:21] ‹ddevans96› bc it seems like we don't really want to lynch either MW or jcj, and obviously I don't want to lynch myself, so is there any other option?
[18:26:48] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› how does one revise anatomy, theres so much info
[18:26:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› like its not going to stay in my brain
[18:27:12] ‹kaempfer13› I wanted to have another take of root, but most of that is an inkling feeling he lost his skills
[18:27:21] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› I could drop a few names but it would most likely be related to activity and wouldn't do the others justice as it is a very weak read if you can call it that.
[18:27:38] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[18:27:40] ‹ddevans96› Root is insanely smart, no way he lost his sense of logic
[18:27:53] ‹ddevans96› that was suggested yesterday do, I don't know that I buy it
[18:28:12] ‹kaempfer13› last mafia i didnt realize he was confirmed towny for the longest time as mobian seemed like an obvious scumread
[18:28:16] ‹Calindu› Root appears to be very quiet, but I don't believe he'll play like that if he were mafia
[18:28:18] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Studying usually helps.
[18:28:44] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› Has anyone seen ARTH or aves around? I'm curious where we stand on brawl stuff.
[18:28:47] ‹MasterWalks› If we were lynching for information, i think ian would give us some decent info. If we were lynching for reactions, not too sure. If we were lynching for mafia kill, espi would be the best target.
[18:28:52] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@moehrpi› it doesnt help
[18:28:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ive been trying
[18:29:00] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› ARTH just posted
[18:29:22] ‹ddevans96› I think the strongest read in the game is you on Espi
[18:29:25] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› read the forum post before you lel
[18:29:30] ‹ddevans96› with the second being shock on iancu
[18:29:43] ‹ddevans96› that's the only two reads that have been strongly pushed
[18:29:57] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› how much time till day end?
[18:29:57] ‹Kameqo› Is this ToS?
[18:29:59] ‹kaempfer13› those are the ones with the most confidence behind them i guess
[18:30:17] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b› In the few seconds it took to go from forum to here he posted. It wasnt there a minute ago when I checked.
[18:30:18] ‹ddevans96› I think one of them makes the most sense to lynch - but we'd have to get all the votes on them from 0
[18:30:20] ‹iancudorinmarian› shock's vote is random at best
[18:30:22] ‹kaempfer13› but from players who quickly latch onto things
[18:30:28] ‹MasterWalks› i honestly think shock wants ian lynched for info, not a mafia read
[18:30:54] ‹ddevans96› maybe, but that's not what he's claiming
[18:30:59] ‹Calindu› I hardly believe we'll get much info by lynching ian
[18:31:15] ‹MasterWalks› shock is always like 70% lies 30% truth
[18:32:38] ‹Calindu› This vote feels random
[18:33:16] ‹kaempfer13› yh, basically makes it impossible to lynch anyone else, there was no need for it
[18:33:23] ‹ddevans96› yeah, that severely limits the chance of me not getting lynched - it's not a hammer but it may as well be one
[18:33:34] ‹ddevans96› we kinda have to go for jcj or MW now
[18:33:48] ‹ddevans96› and we'd need 2/3 people to do it
[18:34:49] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› this is so fun to watch when you know who the mafia is :sillyspin:
[18:34:52] ‹Espithel› I am 100% opposed to a Walk lynch.
[18:34:56] ‹kaempfer13› well i suppose thats one way to restore balance; sortof
[18:35:11] ‹ddevans96› yeah, I don't think a MW lynch is in the cards this round anyways
[18:35:14] ‹Calindu› I don't think lynching MW is a good idea for this round, he's playing too aggro to be mafia
[18:35:19] ‹Espithel› Jcj is fine. Evans is fine. Ian is fine. I don't like how wishy-washy we're being.
[18:35:33] ‹Espithel› (fine to lynch)
[18:35:39] ‹ddevans96› it's not really wishy washy, this feels pretty standard
[18:35:51] ‹ddevans96› 1) early push and you (and kinda) MW
[18:35:55] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@Espithel› your face is fine
[18:35:58] ‹ddevans96› 2) strong push on me
[18:36:03] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ian, did i do that right
[18:36:08] ‹ddevans96› 3) attempted organized push on someone else
[18:36:23] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› *sigh*
[18:36:52] ‹Calindu› Why are you guys seeing jcj as scummy?
[18:37:18] ‹iancudorinmarian› Remember how last game he was all like "Let's not lynch D1, let's wait for more info"
[18:37:23] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› how many mafia are there
[18:37:25] ‹iancudorinmarian› Now he actually wants a D1 lynch.
[18:37:33] ‹ddevans96› 4 mafia, 15 others
[18:37:36] ‹Espithel› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› 4
[18:37:37] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dunno, it's a thin line, but it's something.
[18:37:38] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› 4
[18:37:40] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› cool
[18:38:16] ‹ddevans96› his three reads stated in his last post (excluding me) are all opposite of mine - that means there's a perspective different somewhere
[18:38:30] ‹Calindu› Well, I haven't played last game, but I believe info is more useful when you can PM
[18:38:32] ‹ddevans96› probably nothing, could be something - 'could be something' is just the best we can do rn
[18:38:45] ‹Calindu› So you can maybe afford to take it slower
[18:39:09] ‹Espithel› We probably are stressing too much about the day 1 lynch, to be honest.
[18:39:11] ‹iancudorinmarian› I don't have any strong reads.
[18:39:26] ‹iancudorinmarian› And the only reason I previously voted for dd is to have a D1 lynch.
[18:40:01] ‹MasterWalks› If the vote is tied, does the deadline postpone or do we No Lynch?
[18:40:10] ‹ddevans96› we no lynch
[18:40:18] ‹ddevans96› so we don't want a tied vote in...20 minutes
[18:40:31] ‹MasterWalks› ok we need to break this tie
[18:40:43] ‹Espithel› On it
[18:40:45] ‹MasterWalks› I hate both targets
[18:40:57] ‹Calindu› There are 6 people that haven't voted yet
[18:41:06] ‹MasterWalks› thats fine. It hides garboid
[18:41:11] ‹kaempfer13› as in you want both dead or really like them?
[18:41:23] ‹MasterWalks› No i want neither of them lynched
[18:41:39] ‹MasterWalks› I like the people lol
[18:41:45] ‹MasterWalks› i hate the votes
[18:42:01] ‹Calindu› It hides graboid, but you don't need that many people hiding the graboid
[18:42:33] ‹ddevans96› agreed with Cal, ideally some of these non-voters vote soon
[18:42:44] ‹kaempfer13› there is a 1/3 chance mafia already found graboid
[18:42:46] ‹Espithel› I'll last-second vote if there's atie to begin the overtime.
[18:42:46] ‹ddevans96› I'd say 3-4 people defending graboid is optimal
[18:43:08] ‹ddevans96› oh, yeah, the deadline does move back slightly, to prevent vote-sniping at the very end
[18:43:10] ‹Espithel› ‹@kaempfer13› Because of the nk failing, right?
[18:43:16] ‹kaempfer13› if it even exists
[18:43:23] ‹kaempfer13› yh
[18:43:34] ‹ddevans96› yeah, that's true, actually - that is one explanation for the lack of NK
[18:44:08] ‹Espithel› The other one is a blind heal, which I find hilariously unlikely but possible
[18:44:20] ‹ddevans96› it is technically a 1/19 chance
[18:44:40] ‹ddevans96› absurd, yeah, but it's mafia, sometimes you succeed on dumb luck
[18:44:53] ‹kaempfer13› there is eraph and guard i think
[18:45:13] ‹ddevans96› those are the other options, yeah - I think that's all of them
[18:45:16] ‹iancudorinmarian› Guard protects against NK?\
[18:45:19] ‹ddevans96› unless they just...didn't send one in
[18:45:37] ‹MasterWalks› there is no way they didnt send one in
[18:45:48] ‹Espithel› Inb4 sub's a bastard mod
[18:45:49] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@iancudorinmarian› its higher on prio list
[18:45:56] ‹iancudorinmarian› I don't think Guard blocks NK
[18:46:05] ‹iancudorinmarian› NK is not a secondary ability
[18:46:15] ‹ddevans96› yeah, rereading the ability, it definitely does
[18:46:26] ‹MasterWalks› Iridium ward? nahh that doesnt block NK. I had that ability last game
[18:47:22] ‹kaempfer13› damn should have really asked for clarification on that
[18:47:40] ‹kaempfer13› but guard not actually guarding is kinda weird
[18:47:53] ‹Espithel› 13 minutes until surprise buttsex tiebreaker vote.
[18:47:59] ‹moehrpi› I am very sure guard does nt affect NK.
[18:48:09] ‹MasterWalks› kinda. Its a roleblocking ability which some of us agreed not to use N0
[18:48:15] ‹ddevans96› it definitely does not*
[18:48:21] ‹ddevans96› sorry
[18:48:26] ‹ddevans96› i.e. I'm with iancu
[18:48:39] ‹Espithel› So, seraph, graboid, mafia's retarded
[18:48:51] ‹ddevans96› basically, yeah
[18:49:12] ‹moehrpi› Seraph, Grab, GA
[18:49:12] ‹Calindu› GA is also a possibility
[18:49:22] ‹Espithel› GA?
[18:49:29] ‹Calindu› Guardian Angel
[18:49:30] ‹Espithel› Wait, seraph and GA are different roles?
[18:49:31] ‹Espithel› fuck me
[18:49:31] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@MasterWalks› i specifically explained why guard is the exception to the rule (whether it protects from the nightkill or not it gives quite a bit of information on use)
[18:50:05] ‹Calindu› I'd argue GA is just as likely as Seraph or Graboid
[18:50:11] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› It does not protect.
[18:50:28] ‹Espithel› Seraph/Graboid is more likely than GA, imo
[18:50:45] ‹Espithel› When you have healers, there's a WIFOM game of "do we heal someone good, or someone less important"
[18:50:55] ‹Calindu› No, think about it this way
[18:51:18] ‹Calindu› Mafia hitting graboid is a 1/19 chance
[18:51:30] ‹Calindu› Mafia hitting a target protected by GA is still 1/19
[18:51:58] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Calindu› That is true only if you are town.
[18:52:07] ‹Espithel› Yeah, but it's not 1/19.
[18:52:13] ‹Espithel› Because of the WIFOM game.
[18:52:18] ‹moehrpi› If you are mafia you know whether one of you is Grab/Serpah/GA and can skew the odds.
[18:52:47] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› WIFOM still results in a nash equilibrium.
[18:52:47] ‹Calindu› That's true, yeah, didn't consider that, but I still think it's comparable
[18:53:03] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Calindu› It absolutely is.
[18:53:29] ‹MasterWalks› we REALLY need a different target than jcj or dd
[18:53:42] ‹Calindu› Also, consider that it's more likely GA targets an experienced player, I believe mafia would do the same
[18:54:06] ‹ddevans96› I don't think we're getting one
[18:54:17] ‹moehrpi› ‹@MasterWalks› Any other suggestions, like yourself?
[18:54:46] ‹MasterWalks› It would not be wise to lynch me but its honeslty better than those 2.
[18:55:05] ‹Espithel› No it's not!
[18:55:15] ‹Espithel› Because you're 1000000,00000% town!
[18:55:21] ‹Espithel› Stop being suicidal walks
[18:55:22] ‹Espithel› aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[18:55:25] ‹MasterWalks› Espi, Kaempf, ian, insig,
[18:55:26] ‹Mobian› Why so sure, Espi?
[18:55:31] ‹MasterWalks› all better than those 2
[18:56:06] ‹moehrpi› ‹@iancudorinmarian› ‹@ddevans96› Can you give further explanation to your JCJ scum-read other than he flip-flopped between lynch/no-lynch?
[18:56:24] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dunno, it's a hunch.
[18:56:30] ‹Mobian› It should be known that in 5 mins, unless someone votes on either JCJ or ddevans, or removes a vote from them, no lynch will occur
[18:56:36] ‹MasterWalks› god damnit
[18:56:49] ‹moehrpi› ‹@MasterWalks› jester
[18:56:51] ‹Espithel› If that happens, I'm going to last-second vote, mob
[18:56:54] ‹Espithel› Don't worry
[18:56:58] ‹MasterWalks› ian, vote someone else. JCJ is afk and moving and typing from a phone
[18:57:01] ‹ddevans96› already did so
[18:57:08] ‹ddevans96› the flip-flop isn't my scumread
[18:57:42] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-25 11:38:16] ‹ddevans96› his three reads stated in his last post (excluding me) are all opposite of mine - that means there's a perspective different somewhere [2019-05-25 11:38:32] ‹ddevans96› probably nothing, could be something - 'could be something' is just the best we can do rn
[18:57:44] ‹moehrpi› I don't think ian is mafia. The claim of a blocked role makes me think otherwise. I am closely watching, however.
[18:57:52] ‹kaempfer13› wasnt there a rule for 5 minute extension with each vote?
[18:58:01] ‹Espithel› Yes. kae.
[18:58:07] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@MasterWalks› That has nothing to do with my scumread on him
[18:58:19] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› He's tunneling on me extremely hard.
[18:58:38] ‹Espithel› He's putting himself in stupidly large amounts of risk in doing so. If he's mafia, there is absolutely no reason to.
[18:58:43] ‹iancudorinmarian› Plus, he can then focus on moving :D
[18:58:45] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› Thanks for the quote. Totally slipped my mind.
[18:58:49] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Espithel› you need to vote now to reset timer, btw
[18:58:49] ‹Espithel› It could be argued that it'd be actively hurting the mafia if he was.
[18:59:17] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[18:59:45] ‹Mobian› 1 min
[18:59:47] ‹Espithel› So, if walks is mafia, he's braindead. Walks isn't braindead.
[18:59:54] ‹Espithel› So I'm like pretty sure he's town.
[19:00:36] ‹Mobian› True to your word, last fucking second
[19:00:52] ‹Espithel› gottem
[19:01:35] ‹MasterWalks› Lets take bets on what role jcj has. I bet GA
[19:01:41] ‹iancudorinmarian› lol
[19:01:44] ‹kaempfer13› my time reset vote would have been even closer, but thereis no need now
[19:02:17] ‹ddevans96› BY GOD, THAT'S SHOCKCANNON'S MUSIC
[19:02:18] ‹MasterWalks› DAMNIT SHOCK
[19:02:21] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› lmao
[19:02:27] ‹kaempfer13› I like JcJ as a person, so a little sad, but no ingamerelated objections here
[19:02:43] ‹kaempfer13› huh
[19:02:49] ‹Mobian› DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMNNNNNNN
[19:02:58] ‹Mobian› Shock swoops in with a save
[19:03:33] ‹MasterWalks› I object lynching JCJ but i think its better than dd
[19:03:37] ‹moehrpi› ‹@shockcannon› Did you put in that vote because of your scum-read on iancu?
[19:04:03] ‹shockcannon› I put that in so we don’t lunch
[19:04:10] ‹shockcannon› Lynch
[19:04:18] ‹MasterWalks› wy
[19:04:19] ‹MasterWalks› why
[19:04:26] ‹MasterWalks› no lynch is a terrible idea
[19:04:31] ‹kaempfer13› I do wonder actually
[19:04:40] ‹iancudorinmarian› shock doing shock things again
[19:04:41] ‹MasterWalks› litterally everyone is opposed to it. Thats probably why you want to. Hipster
[19:04:46] ‹Mobian› MW counter'd your play, shock
[19:04:48] ‹shockcannon› Ian you’re mad. Shut up
[19:04:54] ‹shockcannon› Maf*
[19:05:00] ‹Mobian› Not everyone, MW....
[19:05:06] ‹kaempfer13› weve seen most of the information we could get from the lynch other than the roleflipping on death
[19:05:14] ‹MasterWalks› you want no lynch too?
[19:05:21] ‹MasterWalks› why tf do you want no lynch
[19:05:24] ‹kaempfer13› not really
[19:05:46] ‹Mobian› Because we don't have much intel to accuse anyone on
[19:05:46] ‹ddevans96› I mean, I'm fundamentally opposed to no lynch, but I do see why people aren't
[19:05:48] ‹ddevans96› for d1 at least
[19:06:01] ‹Mobian› At this point it's all just bickering
[19:06:06] ‹MasterWalks› Yea and we will have less if we dont lynch
[19:06:06] ‹kaempfer13› roleflipping and the chance of getting mafia should be worth it
[19:07:01] ‹moehrpi› Maybe I should vote shock...
[19:07:14] ‹Mobian› But on D1 without any confirmed intel we're just shooting blind
[19:07:18] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› do eetttt
[19:07:20] ‹kaempfer13› from a statistical perspective town has to always lynch
[19:07:24] ‹MasterWalks› dont you dare move your vote
[19:07:38] ‹Mobian› Sure, we MIGHT hit a mafia, but it's more likely to kill a town
[19:07:54] ‹kaempfer13› but psychology makes everything muddy
[19:07:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› "[19:06:06] ‹MasterWalks› Yea and we will have less if we dont lynch" thats wrong btw, though i probs cant talk much cause im not playing in this one
[19:07:57] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› Do you want to know the best way to get confirmed intel?
[19:07:58] ‹moehrpi› ‹@kaempfer13› No, odds change/improve on later days.
[19:07:59] ‹Espithel› Killing people.
[19:08:20] ‹MasterWalks› I agree 1000% with espi
[19:08:39] ‹ddevans96› day is now final, I believe
[19:08:54] ‹Mobian› Perhaps, but it doesn't sit right with me
[19:09:01] ‹ddevans96› shock's vote is late lmao
[19:09:04] ‹Mobian› I need to go to the bank. Back in a bit
[19:09:36] ‹kaempfer13› yep on my clock shock votedtoo late
[19:09:46] ‹MasterWalks› lol shock was late by 30 sec
[19:10:01] ‹MasterWalks› need to practice you typing speed shock
[19:10:11] ‹shockcannon› I was late on purpose
[19:10:20] ‹PlayerOa› Oh wow that's a lot of chat history to read :silly:
[19:10:23] ‹ddevans96› for memes? understandable
[19:10:28] ‹shockcannon› I had a last minute idea
[19:10:29] ‹Kameqo› Right?
[19:10:42] ‹iancudorinmarian› 25 seconds late lul
[19:10:46] ‹Calindu› rip
[19:10:50] ‹kaempfer13› damn he really was ga
[19:10:58] ‹Kameqo› GA?
[19:10:59] ‹iancudorinmarian› wow
[19:11:05] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-25 12:01:35] ‹MasterWalks› Lets take bets on what role jcj has. I bet GA < lmao, good call
[19:11:13] ‹MasterWalks› :D
[19:11:43] ‹MasterWalks› lol sub and link about to feud
[19:11:53] ‹Espithel› Hm.
[19:11:59] ‹Espithel› Is it possible that jcj was the nightkill?
[19:12:04] ‹Espithel› Can he protect himself?
[19:12:25] ‹PlayerOa› Angel??
[19:12:26] ‹iancudorinmarian› yeah
[19:12:44] ‹Espithel› Because if they can that would actually make GA as equal to block the nightkill as grabby
[19:13:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› LOL
[19:13:30] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Espithel› only every other round on same target
[19:13:36] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› I don't think you understand how numbers work.
[19:13:59] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Numbers are those things that go up and down
[19:14:05] ‹Espithel› Right?
[19:14:38] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› Yes, also lifts.
[19:15:32] ‹Espithel› Do lifts rotate into another dimension if you multiply them by the square root of -1?
[19:16:11] ‹Kameqo› Is this ToS?
[19:16:39] ‹Kameqo› Also I love that math joke
[19:16:41] ‹kaempfer13› ToS is also a mafiastyle game so sorta
[19:16:54] ‹Kameqo› Good stuff man that was great
[19:16:59] ‹Kameqo› Imaginary numbers are wack
[19:17:01] ‹Kameqo› What game is this?
[19:17:21] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› etg
[19:17:39] ‹Kameqo› Ethyl glucuronide?
[19:17:57] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› elements the game
[19:18:02] ‹moehrpi› It's mafia.
[19:18:58] ‹Kameqo› Just called mafia?
[19:19:17] ‹moehrpi› Yep.
[19:19:25] ‹moehrpi› Or werewolves.
[19:19:26] ‹Kameqo› Mk
[19:19:39] ‹Kameqo› Wait what
[19:20:01] ‹kaempfer13› there are many names for games in its style, but this standard mafia with etgthemed secondary roles
[19:20:01] ‹moehrpi› Two different names for the same game.
[19:20:33] ‹Kameqo› Ohhh okay
[19:20:39] ‹Kameqo› That's pretty cool
[19:20:45] ‹Kameqo› How have you guys been playing it?
[19:21:04] ‹moehrpi› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-game...
[19:21:10] ‹kaempfer13› dreadfully, we killed one of our best allies
[19:21:37] ‹Mobian› Yup, we surely did
[19:22:02] ‹Espithel› So.
[19:22:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› maybe its not your ally :sillyspin:
[19:22:17] ‹Espithel› ‹@MasterWalks› You want me roleblocked, yeah?
[19:22:20] ‹Espithel› Any particular reason?
[19:22:38] ‹MasterWalks› Cuz your mafia and you didnt get lynched
[19:22:42] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› in mafia you are always town  :sillyspin:
[19:22:53] ‹Espithel› I think you should be roleblocked because you're mafia and you didn't get lynched.
[19:23:07] ‹Espithel› :^)
[19:23:57] ‹MasterWalks› vaild point
[19:23:59] ‹Mobian› Or you're both mafia, and bussing each other
[19:24:16] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[19:24:24] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› or everyones a town this game because bastard mod
[19:24:27] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› that'd be very fun
[19:24:55] ‹MasterWalks› we arent throwing each other under the bus, we are jumping under it together.
[19:25:22] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› the point of the game is to figure it out before we killed 11 people  :sillyspin:
[19:25:22] ‹Mobian› I still wish Manny was playing
[19:25:41] ‹Espithel› Could you at least throw me under a train, at least?
[19:25:48] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Mobian› A man can dream...
[19:26:13] ‹MasterWalks› I asked him but no response :/ He would probably just vote and not explain anything.
[19:26:45] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› he'd find a way to troll
[19:26:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› i petition to be put into this mafia as the roll that wasnt used
[19:27:27] ‹Calindu› The roles are random, so there could be multiple of one role
[19:27:34] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oh
[19:27:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› rip
[19:27:40] ‹Mobian› Who are you?
[19:27:48] ‹MasterWalks› "If I jOiN MaFiA i WiLl JoIn OtHeR eVeNtS"
[19:27:50] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› inb4 dd and jcj both GA :sillyspin:
[19:28:11] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› its w3 on a new device
[19:28:24] ‹Mobian› Ah
[19:33:43] ‹kaempfer13› Also sorry JcJ
[19:34:17] ‹kaempfer13› maybe one day we'll be on the same team and you wont become irrelevant/inactive day 1
[19:34:24] ‹Mobian› No point in apologizing to a corpse.
[19:34:50] ‹shockcannon› You idiots
[19:35:02] ‹Espithel› YOU FLAMING IDIOTS
[19:35:03] ‹Espithel› TAKE THIS!
[19:35:31] ‹iancudorinmarian› kae mafia confirmed?
[19:35:51] ‹Espithel› ...Actually, yeah.
[19:35:55] ‹Espithel› Kae, that's a bit of an awkward thing to say.
[19:36:13] ‹kaempfer13› ya, but we get along pretty well and yet failed to ever work together in team games, even though war and pipeworks both were great opportunities
[19:36:29] ‹Mobian› I did apologize to MW after I got him killed...
[19:36:38] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› learn2read, nubs
[19:36:46] ‹Espithel› ‹@moehrpi› Yeah, I know
[19:36:54] ‹Espithel› I'm not going to make a thing out of it.
[19:37:03] ‹Espithel› But damn that could be taken the wrong way
[19:37:29] ‹Espithel› Also only Daddy Shock gets to call me a noob >:(
[19:38:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@iancudorinmarian› okay what was your sus of jcj then if it wasnt about the afk
[19:39:23] ‹iancudorinmarian› I told you, it was a hunch
[19:39:30] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[19:39:33] ‹iancudorinmarian› A bad one, as it turns out.
[19:41:15] ‹Linkcat› Fuck
[19:41:21] ‹Linkcat› I missed deadline
[19:41:28] ‹Linkcat› Who died?
[19:41:35] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› You were the one that actually chose to lynch JCJ
[19:41:35] ‹Mobian› JCJ
[19:41:36] ‹moehrpi› GA
[19:41:37] ‹moehrpi› JCJ
[19:41:38] ‹Calindu› ‹@Linkcat› JCJ
[19:41:39] ‹Calindu› GA
[19:41:42] ‹moehrpi› Your vote did not matter.
[19:41:48] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› shit
[19:41:50] ‹Mobian› Town
[19:42:04] ‹Espithel› You know who we should've lynched?
[19:42:06] ‹Espithel› Sub.
[19:42:12] ‹Linkcat› Good shit guys
[19:42:39] ‹Espithel› oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[19:42:42] ‹Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Spicy
[19:42:53] ‹Espithel› Was it himself?
[19:43:13] ‹Espithel› ...I like how that looks like a sword.
[19:43:34] ‹Espithel› ooooo(OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[19:43:48] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Calindu› I voted to break tie
[19:43:58] ‹MasterWalks› any lynch is better than no lynch
[19:44:37] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› I still disagree.
[19:44:55] ‹Linkcat› I probably would have just kept my vote on dd.
[19:44:58] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› But you could have chosen to lynch dd instead
[19:45:18] ‹Linkcat› Well, I need to go to a party, will check in later.
[19:45:57] ‹MasterWalks› I figured jcj to still be better than dd
[19:46:05] ‹kaempfer13› deja vu; nk failing on jcj n0
[19:46:22] ‹MasterWalks› idk anymore but dd seemed less sus than jcj
[19:46:47] ‹Calindu› That's what I don't get, why jcj was seen a better lynch than dd
[19:47:28] ‹Espithel› dd is "helpful to the town"
[19:47:30] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[19:47:39] ‹MasterWalks› jcj was very little help last game iirc.
[19:47:39] ‹Espithel› Or, rather.
[19:47:44] ‹Espithel› "more helpful to the town"
[19:47:44] ‹MasterWalks› and he was totally active
[19:47:45] ‹Calindu› I feel like he was chosen in the end because it was easy to coordinate on him, he was not here, he didn't really communicate much
[19:48:13] ‹Calindu› It doesn't matter who's more helpful, it matters who is more likely to be mafia
[19:48:14] ‹MasterWalks› I disagree. For me anyways, i just saw more value in dd
[19:48:20] ‹Espithel› This is true.
[19:48:28] ‹MasterWalks› Well if that was the case, yall shouldve voted espi
[19:48:34] ‹Espithel› As in, mafia being more likely is more important.
[19:48:37] ‹MasterWalks› but nooo i have tunnel vision
[19:48:59] ‹Espithel› https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_-NIo79GfwbA%2FTAC9ErCXQcI%2FAAAAAAAAG9g%2FwAHfS9F3og4%2Fs1600%2FNew%2Btunnel.jpg&f=1
[19:49:40] ‹Calindu› Because you did tunnel vision, you probably saw something small and you just followed that
[19:49:56] ‹Calindu› I saw no real reason why you think Espithel is mafia
[19:51:18] ‹kaempfer13› how can ian actually know who jcj targeted if his ability failed?
[19:51:34] ‹kaempfer13› i guess he couldve lied once
[19:51:39] ‹Mobian› 1
[19:52:26] ‹Calindu› Maybe ian targeted someone and his ability failed because of GA
[19:52:52] ‹iancudorinmarian› I'm not saying any more, but it should be easy to figure out.
[19:53:59] ‹Espithel› Stop giving shock justifiable positions
[19:54:00] ‹Espithel› >:(
[19:54:02] ‹kaempfer13› oh ga prevents offensive roles too
[19:54:15] ‹Calindu› Well, it's either him or the person you targeted
[19:54:22] ‹MasterWalks› I think shock is FFQ, if thats worth anything
[19:55:03] ‹Calindu› Why is that?
[19:55:31] ‹Espithel› Yeah, that seems plausible. FFQ over dragonfly, though?
[19:55:34] ‹kaempfer13› if so and dd is to be trusted he very likely only knows that dd neither acted nor was acted on
[19:55:52] ‹shockcannon› Wanna hear a hot take?
[19:55:54] ‹kaempfer13› ofc multiple ffq are possible
[19:56:01] ‹shockcannon› 3 mafia voted on JCJ
[19:56:21] ‹kaempfer13› very hot indeed
[19:56:25] ‹iancudorinmarian› Then mafia are incredibly stupid.
[19:56:34] ‹ddevans96› make sure all of this gets logged, I'm packing for the weekend
[19:56:40] ‹ddevans96› I'll respond to the log later
[19:56:45] ‹kaempfer13› i dont think theyd expose themselves that much
[19:56:49] ‹Espithel› THERE'S TOO MUCH TO LOG
[19:56:51] ‹Espithel› AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[19:56:52] ‹MasterWalks› He wants several rounds to info dump, he probably targeted high risk people first round hence targeting dd, and he is being carefully reckless
[19:56:52] ‹shockcannon› Mafia went for the double mindgate
[19:57:04] ‹moehrpi› Well, if dd is mafia there is at least one more mafia on the train.
[19:57:21] ‹moehrpi› me, root, ian, espi
[19:57:25] ‹moehrpi› not counting mw
[19:57:40] ‹ddevans96› (bonus: highlight things in the log you want my response to)
[19:58:12] ‹kaempfer13› a mafia member is fairly unlikely to catch a firefly imo, although its easy to lie about it ofc
[19:58:27] ‹Calindu› But if shock targeted dd, then the only info he could have gotten is that dd didn't use any ability and was not targeted by one either
[19:58:28] ‹moehrpi› I am also struggling to see how ian can know JCJ target.
[19:59:08] ‹moehrpi› Unless he tried to poison/eat someone, he can see if he was healed?, his mafia buddies told him.
[19:59:15] ‹Calindu› ‹@kaempfer13› I don't think it's easy to lie about it, I don't see FFQ as a powerful role, I'd gladly sacrifice myself as a FFQ to out a mafia
[20:00:39] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@moehrpi› guard and gotp are also offensive roles
[20:00:57] ‹moehrpi› not blocked by heal
[20:01:07] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:01:37] ‹kaempfer13› i reread it to check if it can block roles, seems to state all offensive ones
[20:01:39] ‹Calindu› I think they are blocked by heal
[20:02:35] ‹kaempfer13› squid and flayer would be scummy to use though
[20:03:12] ‹moehrpi› Heal has a lower priority. That wouldn't make sense.
[20:03:48] ‹moehrpi› So the only way it can fail is if it targets someone who was healed the night before or the same night?
[20:03:57] ‹kaempfer13› oh forgot about priorities
[20:04:31] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› why dont you all talk in thread
[20:04:41] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› its eassier then chatting in here and copying this to thread
[20:04:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› (for people who arent here)
[20:04:52] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› chat log is so ugly
[20:05:20] ‹MasterWalks› Its easier to speculate here
[20:05:53] ‹kaempfer13› for quick talking forum requires too much refreshing
[20:06:07] ‹iancudorinmarian› Channeled my inner shock
[20:06:14] ‹MasterWalks› Some of us should list scum reads in the forum tho. Like a full list of all reads they have
[20:06:38] ‹Mobian› Yup, when I run a game, I'd like to use a separate discord channel
[20:06:48] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› in my maf, ill ban chat talk. While it has its benefits, people who arent as active and cant be in chat all the time, its an annoyance to them
[20:07:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› but im never hosting a maf
[20:07:13] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› so ill just have to be FGO and then do a link and veto anything else
[20:07:50] ‹iancudorinmarian› tbh, I'm fine with a chatlog instead of just having 20 pages each day.
[20:08:01] ‹Calindu› ‹@iancudorinmarian› As random as that may seem, I actually kind of agree with that lol
[20:08:16] ‹Linkcat› Lmao
[20:08:19] ‹Linkcat› True
[20:08:39] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› But what if you want to bandwagon your GA within 30 minutes and need four more votes?
[20:09:11] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@moehrpi› wat
[20:09:37] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› go beg in thread. chat's fine for small mafia related qs here and there
[20:09:44] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› not for a full on discussion and thoughts
[20:09:48] ‹MasterWalks› Chat log is friendlier for mobile than forum
[20:09:51] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› wat 'wat'?
[20:09:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› much easier to read posts then a chat log
[20:10:03] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› *than
[20:10:35] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› i hate how chat log looks on forum, its so ugly
[20:10:43] ‹Calindu› It's easier to communicate in small messages than wall of texts
[20:10:47] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and having to see who typed each chat message is a pain too
[20:10:59] ‹MasterWalks› Just post a series of screen shots
[20:11:13] ‹MasterWalks› can w3 participate by posting all the chat logs?
[20:11:20] ‹moehrpi› If you need to read up forum is easier. The information in chat is just so light.
[20:11:23] ‹Linkcat› Sure
[20:11:38] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› there, i got you into mafia
[20:11:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› no
[20:11:51] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› im not posting chatlogs ew
[20:11:54] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› so ugly
[20:12:14] ‹MasterWalks› Make them beautiful! you are a model after all
[20:12:14] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Make them pretty! With colours! :)
[20:12:25] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› no ew
[20:14:18] ‹MasterWalks› damnit mobian. not again
[20:14:39] ‹Calindu› Wow
[20:15:42] ‹PlayerOa› Can't help but seeing that as kind of a red flag
[20:15:59] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› In regards to my salt or ian's asinine accusation?
[20:16:49] ‹MasterWalks› salt
[20:17:02] ‹MasterWalks› Mobian? more like Mortons
[20:17:25] ‹Mobian› I do live in Salt Lake City
[20:17:33] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› Mafia is in the drivers seat right now and they’re in fourth gear
[20:18:12] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› But are they smart enough to kill me enough before I lay down the road tacks?
[20:18:12] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› nope, im only third gear right now
[20:18:15] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› got more gears to go
[20:20:28] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› In all seriousness, though, what new intel have we gained, aside from knowing we killed a friend?
[20:20:59] ‹kaempfer13› everyone that voted for him is more suspicious now
[20:23:31] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:23:42] ‹Mobian› Maybe
[20:24:50] ‹Mobian› My theory is shaping up to be a lil different. If I survive the next lynch, I'll put words to it
[20:25:20] ‹PlayerOa› Gj cillessen, I have money on Barcelona :(
[20:28:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@PlayerOa› wheres ter stegen?
[20:28:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and suarez
[20:29:58] ‹PlayerOa› Guess Cillessen is cup keeper
[20:30:02] ‹PlayerOa› Suarez no idea
[20:30:33] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› just read, stegen is injured
[20:30:36] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› Id say quite a bit. We have a possible answer for N0 no kill, sus of people who started the bandwagon, and tbh losing GA isnt all that bad since they cant protect GN
[20:31:03] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b›
[20:31:12] ‹MasterWalks› I mean its still bad we lost a town, but it wasnt the worst role to lose
[20:31:31] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Oh that's a shame, best gk in the world atm along with oblak imo
[20:31:34] ‹MasterWalks› sucks he couldnt defend himself
[20:32:22] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› hmm
[20:32:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ederson is really solid ngl
[20:32:54] ‹Calindu› Allison has also been there this year
[20:32:55] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and with kepa, you get additional bonus that you dont need a manager
[20:33:00] ‹Mobian› There is no defense against Lynch, aside from reason.
[20:33:17] ‹Calindu› And De Gea kind of sucked for the second part of the season
[20:33:24] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› yh
[20:33:30] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› most likely due to contract issues
[20:33:40] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› best to get rid of him and get some money
[20:33:50] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› You think so?
[20:33:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› romero is class, we can put romero as first choice for one season atleast
[20:34:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› while we rebuild the other aspects
[20:34:01] ‹PlayerOa› Romero is good yeah
[20:34:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› cause we desperately need CB, RB, midfield and RW
[20:34:12] ‹MasterWalks› him doing a role reveal wouldnt have been a terrible idea and would've likely saved him from lynch if he said he used it N0
[20:34:25] ‹PlayerOa› Sorting out RB, RW and CB is first priority
[20:34:26] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b›
[20:34:29] ‹PlayerOa› Fckkkkkk valencia 2-0
[20:34:39] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› midfield too imo
[20:34:42] ‹Calindu›
[20:34:46] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› midfield is shambles. we got no one
[20:34:51] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› herrera gone, matic too old no
[20:34:52] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› now*
[20:34:53] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Scott<3
[20:34:57] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› You guys are act so bad at mafia
[20:35:11] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› pogba needs to fix up a bit
[20:35:23] ‹Calindu› Pogba will leave too
[20:35:27] ‹PlayerOa› RB > RW > CB = CM
[20:35:33] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› yh, id cash in on pogba too
[20:35:39] ‹PlayerOa› If pogba leaves then CM first
[20:35:41] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[20:35:43] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› sell pogba lukaku degea, get money
[20:35:49] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› invest in youngsters
[20:35:53] ‹Mobian› Maybe short term, but if the mafia didn't kill him, everyone would accuse him of being dirty
[20:35:56] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› get deligt
[20:36:00] ‹PlayerOa› Daniel James looks interesting
[20:36:07] ‹PlayerOa› De ligt would be a dream...
[20:36:14] ‹PlayerOa› Along with Sancho
[20:36:26] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› theres a better chance now of de ligt coming to utd than before
[20:36:30] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› barca obvs still favs
[20:36:37] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› but the van de sar link will help
[20:36:48] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and he'll be our no1 for sure
[20:36:49] ‹PlayerOa› Seems like lfc's in the race too
[20:37:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› cant see de ligt going to lfc
[20:37:21] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› van de sar not gonna let him XD
[20:37:40] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› if barca lose this match today, theyre gonna go hard in transfer
[20:37:43] ‹PlayerOa› :D
[20:40:15] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› hopefully that will mean barca go for mbappe and griezzmans free for us LOL
[20:41:05] ‹Calindu› I can't see barca going for mbappe
[20:41:15] ‹Calindu› No way PSG lets him go there
[20:44:41] ‹PlayerOa› It's a shame ibra got his injury
[20:48:06] ‹MasterWalks› Someone want to chat log post this monster?
[20:48:21] ‹MasterWalks› conversation has shifted to soccer
[20:51:45] ‹Mobian› When I get home
[20:52:03] ‹Calindu› Did you just call football as soccer?
[20:52:20] ‹MasterWalks› U.S.A
[20:52:21] ‹Espithel› He's not mafia, but he's certainly scum.
[20:52:25] ‹Espithel› >:(
[20:52:26] ‹MasterWalks› I like the Chivas
[20:52:39] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ew
[20:55:36] ‹Mobian› He called it soccer, I call it pointless. FITE ME
[20:55:53] ‹MasterWalks› its not pointless
[20:55:58] ‹MasterWalks› the cleats have points on them
[20:56:16] ‹Calindu› You made a powerful enemy today
[20:56:38] ‹Mobian› ROFL
[20:58:06] ‹iancudorinmarian›
[21:00:36] ‹PlayerOa› I'm with you cal
[21:02:48] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[21:09:39] ‹MasterWalks› why do people have L/J on?
[21:10:42] ‹Calindu› Because I like to see when people join or leave
[21:11:57] ‹MasterWalks› it crowds it so bad tho and you can see whos here already
[21:12:04] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› news says utd very close to signing de ligt???
[21:12:10] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› why they getting my hopes up
[21:12:36] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Really?
[21:13:04] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› idk i just googled man utd
[21:13:06] ‹PlayerOa› Edwin's at the wheel
[21:13:09] ‹PlayerOa› lol
[21:13:18] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› and first three articles said very close
[21:13:45] ‹Calindu› There's a very reputable source for that
[21:14:17] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Calindu› Which?
[21:14:29] ‹Calindu› Gerard Romero
[21:14:46] ‹Calindu› I heard he's pretty accurate for Barca news
[21:14:47] ‹PlayerOa› de Ligt has been liking an instagram post by Lukaku, lol
[21:14:49] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› on that note, bring edwin as technical director with you, de ligt
[21:15:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@PlayerOa› he also liked rio ferdinannds
[21:15:12] ‹Calindu› He said that de ligt got a very good offer from man utd
[21:15:15] ‹PlayerOa› Messi hits the post fml
[21:15:56] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› That's even more interesting tbh
[21:16:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› he'll be tested more if hes at utd, and i feel hes the kinda guy who will want that challenge. plus utd offer him more money for sure
[21:20:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› there arent many good RBs around this window are there?
[21:20:25] ‹PlayerOa› Wan Bissaka would be the most likely I guess
[21:20:36] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oh yh him
[21:20:44] ‹PlayerOa› pretty solid player
[21:23:10] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› why are transfers taking so long, hurry up teams, i want to see transfer business
[21:24:27] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Chief transfer muppet
[21:25:25] ‹PlayerOa› Nah just kidding. I'd like to see some business as well, looks like they're sorting out James at least
[21:26:51] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› not just from utd, but in general
[21:27:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› no signings so far
[21:27:34] ‹PlayerOa› Pulisic
[21:28:24] ‹Linkcat› I'm on mobile, someone post the chat log.
[21:29:09] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› pulisic got done before tho
[21:29:26] ‹PlayerOa› Yeah fair enough
[21:29:47] ‹PlayerOa› Dortmund had a couple nice ones
[21:29:54] ‹PlayerOa› Brandt and T. Hazard
[21:30:01] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oh yh
[21:32:01] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› seems like barca are only gonna win la liga this yr
[21:32:21] ‹PlayerOa› 2-1 gogogo
[21:32:27] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› the only thing i watched in la liga was the iago aspas story, what a guy
[21:32:28] ‹MasterWalks› Espithel
[21:32:30] ‹PlayerOa› nice jinx
[21:32:39] ‹MasterWalks› can you post since youve been here tho whole time?
[21:33:16] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› nw
[21:41:51] ‹Espithel› Post about what?
[21:42:15] ‹MasterWalks› the chat log
[21:43:12] ‹Espithel› I guess. Gimmie a sec.
[21:48:50] ‹shockcannon› lol jcj in chat
[21:48:54] ‹shockcannon› apologize to him now
[21:51:53] ‹Guest-GiantFrog-c080b›
[21:56:04] ‹MasterWalks›
[21:58:29] ‹vagman13› aaw por jcj :(
[21:58:48] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› So much Amusement
[21:59:08] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@JonathanCrazyJ› Its just not meant to be
[22:00:00] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› Wish could say more
[22:00:18] ‹Espithel› ‹@JonathanCrazyJ› See you in forum brawl?
[22:00:55] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› 😘
[22:01:08] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› you can say more to me
[22:01:10] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› im not playing
[22:03:48] ‹vagman13› you arsefaces lynching jcjc, i said when in doubt , always lynch ian :sillyspin:

Ill try to summarize as best I can.

Pre jcj Lynch
moe talks about ian not being as active in the thread. ian says he has nothing to contribute. ddevans starts asking how people would feel if we lynch certain people, notably jcj and MW. Back and forth about not having much scum reads between all member involved. Some discussion on how the least active people on the thread are pretty smart so not to make quick assumptions based on activity. dd points out the strongest scum read is on espithel followed by ian. Small consensus on how lynching ian wont bring much info. ddevan states we should lynch either MW or jcj and before deadline. mobian states he wants a no lynch; back and forth on how lynching/not lynching gives information. Lots of haste is followed as there is 20min left on timer and town is at tied vote. Here you can look through forums to see how the timer was extended. Discussion on what roles block NK, mostly focused on ward. Speculation on how there was no kill on N0, mostly looking at which roles it could've been and which ones have the highest chance. moe questions dd and ian about jcj votes, responded mostly with its a hunch. Some final discussion on lynch/no lynch information topic

Post jcj lynch
Speculation on if jcj was the one targeted for NK and how he may have protected himself. MW and espi discussing MW's request for espi to be roleblocked. Mobian speculates some bussing going on between espi and MW. More discussion on lynch/no lynch pros and cons. Some minor discussion on if ddevans wouldve been a better lynch than jcj. Some back and forth on what GA can actually block and what it cant. Some people and their roles speculation follows, mostly to nothing concrete. Bunch of BS with non mafia members follows for a while. ian posts about mobian and mobian fiercely defends himself for a moment. After this, conversation starts moving to Football (pronounced Soccer)with no new conversation that hasnt already been talked about before.


This is as neutral and simplified as i can make it.

TL:DR Yea not much for info here really. Mostly just role discussion and scum reads.

Did i miss anything important?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 10:09:27 pm
Now, say it like Luis from AntMan.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 25, 2019, 10:16:53 pm
ian is more reckless this time around. He was ultra concentrated last game. Making long term game plans, calculated votes, etc. Thats why he got a ton of votes for best player. This round his reasoning for lynch was a hunch. He doesnt appear to be gameplanning all that much. He not espithel sus but i think its worth closely watching him.
Except I did make a long term plan on N0 on how to protect the Golden Nymph. And except I had concrete plans later in the game last mafia and I was still voting based on my hunch up until there were very few people left. And except I just revealed a plan I made to make mafia (Mobian) slip up.

You're not reading me very well at all.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 25, 2019, 10:21:35 pm
ian is more reckless this time around. He was ultra concentrated last game. Making long term game plans, calculated votes, etc. Thats why he got a ton of votes for best player. This round his reasoning for lynch was a hunch. He doesnt appear to be gameplanning all that much. He not espithel sus but i think its worth closely watching him.
Except I did make a long term plan on N0 on how to protect the Golden Nymph. And except I had concrete plans later in the game last mafia and I was still voting based on my hunch up until there were very few people left. And except I just revealed a plan I made to make mafia (Mobian) slip up.

You're not reading me very well at all.

As adorable as your blame game is, try paying attention. Several others voiced that opinion in the chat as well. It's awfully scummy of you to shine a light on me simply for voicing it in chat out of frustration at the "meta" strategy.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 10:23:45 pm
TBH Mobian doesnt appear to have the confidence he had when he was mafia. I would know as i had allied with him last game. HOWEVER I WILL NOT DEFEND HIM after what he did to me last time. I'm just not getting mafia read from him (granted i didnt when he actually was mafia last time)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 25, 2019, 10:53:55 pm
TBH Mobian doesnt appear to have the confidence he had when he was mafia. I would know as i had allied with him last game. HOWEVER I WILL NOT DEFEND HIM after what he did to me last time. I'm just not getting mafia read from him (granted i didnt when he actually was mafia last time)
What do you mean? He seems to be really confident. He said almost nothing during the whole round, made a very late vote with no given reason, then jumped to criticise everyone's style of playing mafia, despite himself admitting this is his second mafia game. He wants us to wait for proof in order to lynch someone, instead of trying to actually read people.

Not in the early stages, but you people are SO hung up on "someone has to die, so we MIGHT learn something". With that mindset, we may as well not even have secondary roles and just blindly shoot people till the game ends.

We might as well transform the game into a mafia vs Golden Nymph game and just skip the first few day phases, shall we?

He also used the fact that he rolled mafia the last game to argue that he's not mafia, despite the first event having no relevance here.

Now, I'm not sure he's mafia, because I doubt he'd start a rant that would inevitably annoy most people if he were mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 25, 2019, 11:15:29 pm
No hes confident when defending himself. Not with decisions from what i can tell.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 26, 2019, 12:15:11 am
Quote
What do you mean? He seems to be really confident. He said almost nothing during the whole round, made a very late vote with no given reason, then jumped to criticise everyone's style of playing mafia, despite himself admitting this is his second mafia game. He wants us to wait for proof in order to lynch someone, instead of trying to actually read people.

First of all, I did explain my vote, in the very same post you found me stating this is my second game. Please refrain from cherry-picking my words. And yes, I would like more information on a player besides WHAT they said, especially at the beginning of a game. I'm not sure you got the memo, but the way our abilities are designed this time encourages teamwork and coordination to ferret out reliable intel. I don't agree with the "meta" strategy because I view it as sloppy and inefficient, and in the last Day phase. We only had a 20% chance of blindly finding a mafia. So yes, I'm criticizing the town's blunder, in the hopes of not repeating it. I'm annoyed, which means I air my grievances. If that makes me dirty, so fucking be it. But I have never been one to mince words, and I won't start now. 
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 26, 2019, 01:27:23 am
And yes, I would like more information on a player besides WHAT they said, especially at the beginning of a game.

What are you hoping for in a rule set that doesnt allow PM's? For another shock crusade of role reveals? For your ability to gather you more info? I doubt anyone is really going to info dump what they have found unless pressed with lynch which takes time, but according to you, we should no lynch. WHAT they said/say is really all we get for public information. What you gather with your role is your info. If you want to tell us what youve gathered, sure! But dont expect to live much longer after Mafia knows your role.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 26, 2019, 01:43:37 am
And yes, I would like more information on a player besides WHAT they said, especially at the beginning of a game.

What are you hoping for in a rule set that doesnt allow PM's? For another shock crusade of role reveals? For your ability to gather you more info? I doubt anyone is really going to info dump what they have found unless pressed with lynch which takes time, but according to you, we should no lynch. WHAT they said/say is really all we get for public information. What you gather with your role is your info. If you want to tell us what youve gathered, sure! But dont expect to live much longer after Mafia knows your role.

I'm saying we shouldn't be jumping to erroneous conclusions so early in the game. If we were to slow-roll it, we as the town would be able to build stronger cases against whoever we suspected of being mafia. But jumping to conclusions and fucking up the lynch only helps mafia.

But, whatever. This is the last you'll hear from me on the subject. I truly hope you all know what you're doing.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 26, 2019, 02:02:25 am
[02:14:28] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@Linkcat› Correct me if I'm wrong, did you ask in N0 for GA to target you
[02:15:25] ‹Linkcat› Yes
[02:15:32] ‹Linkcat› And for buffs
[02:16:19] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Ok good, I wonder if people followed through
[02:16:35] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› I really hope GN isn’t an incompetent piece of garbage
[02:16:54] ‹Guest-Phoenix-b838e› Because this should be free win if they stay alive to check 2 more people
[02:17:02] ‹Mobian› Sadly, we have no way of knowing.
[02:17:41] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Welp guys we found the Phoenix
[02:18:02] ‹Mobian› Lol
[02:20:15] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Btw huh, suddenly JCJ died
[02:20:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Rip
[02:25:26] ‹Mobian› What did we expect with an 80% chance of friendly fire?
[02:27:42] ‹dawn_to_dusk› It's greater than that tbh
[02:27:48] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Closer to 90%
[02:28:18] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Mafia has an easier chance of deflecting votes to civs
[02:29:06] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› it shoukd be less
[02:29:12] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› if civvies are smart
[02:29:56] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Youre having mafia withdrawls. Shoulda joined
[02:30:12] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› nah i aint
[02:30:23] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› just fun to follow
[02:30:46] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If civvies are smart then mafia is smart too
[02:30:56] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Smart mafia can deflect easy
[02:44:51] ‹Mobian› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› Yuuuuuup. Good luck getting anyone to listen though.
[02:45:42] ‹Mobian› We're no better than a superstitious mob on a witch hunt.
[02:46:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@Mobian› But
[02:46:45] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Town lynches can reveal information too
[02:47:02] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Voting patterns, how quick people were to jump on the train, etc
[02:47:07] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Like say dd flips mafia now
[02:47:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› D1 people defended him and quickly voted for JCJ
[02:47:31] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Now the people who voted JCJ look extra suspicious
[02:47:44] ‹Mobian› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› That seems to be the party line. I'll leave it to you all until I find the rats myself
[02:49:11] ‹Calindu› Please do so, but no lynch for a couple of days until we can find a sure mafia lynch is a losing play
[02:49:38] ‹Calindu› Not only is it too slow, but it allows mafia to just not offer any information whatsoever and just lie in the shadows
[02:49:40] ‹MasterWalks› I was all for not lynching either of them and just lynching espi, like we shoulda done, but nooooo
[02:50:21] ‹Calindu› It also completely fails if the first lynch we actually take flips town
[02:50:49] ‹Mobian› You mean like we already did
[02:51:05] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› I wasn't ok with lynching JCJ either, but lynching Espithel is probably the same, if it's based on just a hunch from you
[02:51:27] ‹Calindu› ‹@Mobian› No, read again, I'm talking about your strategy of doing nothing and waiting for the golden nymph to carry us to the finish line
[02:52:25] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Calindu› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-game...
[02:52:25] ‹Calindu› Because let's be serious, if the default play is to not lynch every day, then mafia has to do nothing to protect themselves, and we'll have no information to work with
[02:53:08] ‹MasterWalks› I say we no lynch every day and wait for mafia to NK themselves
[02:53:38] ‹Calindu› I can't take these accusations serious, I already addressed the fact that I find it baseless in the thread
[02:54:23] ‹Calindu› I'm not sure who said it, but Espithel didn't defend because there was nothing to actually defend against
[02:54:56] ‹Calindu› Look in dd's case, Link came and presented a solid case that dd had counter arguments for
[02:55:26] ‹Calindu› You came with a baseless hunch that's based on meta talk, there's nothing you can counter here
[02:56:15] ‹MasterWalks› damnit. We lynched a town already based on a hunch, and a shittier one than mine. trust me and lynch him.
[02:56:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› There was more information to gain out of Espi if we kept him alive
[02:56:40] ‹Calindu› I know it was a shitty hunch, I even said I don't get it
[02:56:58] ‹dawn_to_dusk› There wasn't much information about JCJ, but there was a ton of information if we lynched dd
[02:57:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Because of all the discussion about it
[02:57:20] ‹Calindu› Look, MW, I don't believe you are mafia, but I also don't believe the town should follow your play here, at least for now
[02:57:33] ‹dawn_to_dusk› There is some information about the JCJ lynch, especially since he flipped GA
[02:57:41] ‹MasterWalks› what is there to gain if we dont lynch him? The exact same thing can be said about jcj and keeping him alive
[02:57:53] ‹MasterWalks› I gtg now. Ill be back later
[02:58:26] MasterWalks left.
[02:58:42] ‹dawn_to_dusk› JCJ wasn't under fire
[02:58:45] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Espi was
[02:59:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I mean obviously JCJ was under fire
[02:59:08] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Otherwise he wouldn't have died
[02:59:09] ‹Calindu› JCJ couldn't even defend, there was no info out of it
[02:59:19] Guest-Phoenix-b838e joined.
[02:59:19] ‹Calindu› JCJ wasn't here when the lynch happened
[02:59:38] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Exactly, which is why the JCJ lynch was bad
[02:59:50] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Which is something that you agreed with anyway
[03:00:29] ‹dawn_to_dusk› The only info we gained was suspicions based on if Mafia knew JCJ was GA
[03:00:44] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Which can be tracked to mafia being Dragonfly
[03:00:50] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm making a post about this anyway though
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 26, 2019, 02:16:03 am
You need to understand that while yes, Day 1 lynch when we had no N0 kill can be seen as bad, and can definitely be an option, if Mafia also has an informative role (like Psion from last game), they can gain a lot of information.

Damn, it's good to be back. Requesting Heal/Buffs on me.

Due to this there's a chance that ian targeted Link. Therefore there's a chance that other people have had their role blocked too. Assuming Link wasn't trying to prove Graboid, we can assume he was targeted by Warden, or another such ability (though I think Warden is the only one). As such, Psion, if you find Warden, this can be useful information. Naturally, don't reveal yet. But do target the people who you think would be scummy, or the people who you think would have wanted to block buffs on Link.

Alternatively, Flayer targeted Ian. This result occurs if nobody says they were blocked, or if Ian says he didn't target Link. So either someone found Ian scummy enough to roleblock (which is weird), or mafia roleblocked him. Which means that Flayer can be someone to look into. Shock claimed Flayer, and he very well might be. But that claim didn't really lead anywhere.

If Ian didn't target Link, which would mean Flayer targeted Ian, this allows mafia Dragonfly to target Link, outing JCJ as GA. Then N0 NK just happened to target a Graboid. Btw if dd is town Graboid then the people who voted for him are super suspicious. This is also interesting, noting that FFQ supposedly targeted dd. Mafia FFQ, then dual target dd with Queen and NK would be a completely valid approach for them here, especially if other roles of theirs can get information.

And of course the option that JCJ targeted himself, mafia tried to target him, failed, and seeing that he voted (and therefore was not Graboid), pushed a lynch on him. ~Theory from Calindu

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 26, 2019, 02:23:29 am
[12:02:28] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Thing is, JCJ didn't say that he was roleblocked
[12:02:42] ‹Calindu› I doubt he was roleblocked
[12:04:04] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If he targeted Link N0 and mafia has a Warden
[12:05:53] ‹Calindu› I'm not sure tbh, I believe the events were that mafia failed killing JCJ N0 and since he voted, there was a good chance of him being GA
[12:06:05] ‹Calindu› So they just forced a lynch on him
[12:07:04] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I would have liked to know if he targeted Link
[12:07:12] ‹dawn_to_dusk› It's a shame we can't
[12:07:51] ‹Mobian› Who caught the firefly?
[12:08:50] ‹Calindu› Dd claimed he caught one
[12:10:18] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But why would jcj be the NK target
[12:10:36] ‹Mobian› Random roll
[12:10:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I mean, that could be the same as anyone
[12:11:06] ‹MasterWalks› Wasn't he target N0 last game?
[12:11:13] ‹Mobian› He was
[12:11:51] ‹MasterWalks› I think there's just something about him that gets him targeted. Mafia must think he smells bad.
[12:14:36] ‹Mobian› Dunno. Sub made that call last time. I spent most of my focus on you, MW.
[12:14:56] ‹Calindu› Experienced players get killed more often early on, I believe
[12:15:34] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Sure, but twice in a row?
[12:15:46] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Considering Ian was voted the most valuable player last game
[12:16:44] ‹Calindu› I don't think that matters, I believe there was a time a few years back when one player was either nightkilled N0 or probably mafia lol
[12:18:36] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Of course this reasoning is the same as the reasoning of "Someone can't be mafia twice in a row"
[12:18:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Which isn't something I agree with
[12:21:24] ‹Calindu› Yeah, that reason just makes no sense
[12:21:41] ‹Calindu› Also, can you update the chatlog in the thread please? I'm going to sleep
[12:21:49] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Sure
[12:21:58] ‹Calindu› Thanks

This conversation is a direct continuation from the last one
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 26, 2019, 02:25:15 am
Quote from: dawn2dusk
If Ian didn't target Link, which would mean Flayer targeted Ian, this allows mafia Dragonfly to target Link, outing JCJ as GA. Then N0 NK just happened to target a Graboid. Btw if dd is town Graboid then the people who voted for him are super suspicious. This is also interesting, noting that FFQ supposedly targeted dd. Mafia FFQ, then dual target dd with Queen and NK would be a completely valid approach for them here, especially if other roles of theirs can get information.

The timing here doesn't seem to make sense, as the mafia wouldn't have gotten the results until D1. The N0 NK is completely blind, the only information they have is the identities of their allies.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 26, 2019, 02:32:15 am
I mean mafia obviously wouldn't want to NK a Graboid. They'd blind target dd with both FFQ and NK. If he survives, they'd find out something that stuck.

This theory is completely wrong though, for the reason that dd voted D1
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 26, 2019, 02:50:04 am
You really think I'd have rolled dirty twice in a row?

Gambler's fallacy.

Quote
No. I am, however, annoyed that we don't seem to like evidence, and would rather strike out blindly in the asinine hopes that we get lucky enough to hit a mafia. Explain to me who that helps, aside from mafia. Thanks to us blindly shooting in the dark, we just killed off one of our strongest defenders. So yeah, I'm a tad salty. If you think that's enough to make me mafia, then so be it. It's not like we need proof to kill anyone, anyways.

Good opinion and confident mindset. However, I want to reiterate that jcj was not merely a shot in the dark - I didn't want to die, another person scumread, and we moved the wagon. If you think that suggests something about me or iancu, that's fair, but ultimately that's just how the game is - we could all be town and we just got unlucky. And it's not like we had reliable evidence anywhere else, either.

For what it's worth, I don't read Mobian as mafia. I see more aggressive+eager town play, not mafia.

I can't add more much rn, I'm away from home, no phone access, and only able to use this computer for a brief while - apologies. I should be more active tomorrow night.



I want to state publicly - if you have any questions for me, ask me directly, and they will get answered to the best of my ability - otherwise I may not always be able to play at full activity.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 26, 2019, 08:24:11 am
On the off chance I die, I did not do what seems obvious. Also look at who I've voted for.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 26, 2019, 08:57:29 pm
I'll be out of country for the next couple of days, so my activity will drop, though I should still be able to pop up every now and then.

Anyway, tonight I'm going to need some protection to get some more info. @2nd GA, protect me tonight please. You know who you are.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 03:08:49 am
So I slept 3 hours out of a 36-hour period, came home completely physically exhausted, went to go make a post before I passed out, but it was half past bork so I gave up and went to sleep. Good shit on the lynch, sorry I missed the deadline but I probably would have just kept my vote on dd since I didn't like any of the other options brought up. We should definitely be able to pull some good info later from the votes, at least. While I would like to believe that JCJ saved me Night 0, he most likely just targeted himself, especially since he didn't have much time to pay attention to the game. If so, it actually would not make sense for mafia to push his lynch, because from their perspective he would have had to have been protected by Heal or Divine Shield, both of which leave him vulnerable to a N1 kill.

Will try to get a full reads list done tonight in case I die.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 27, 2019, 04:33:57 am
Even if they don't push the lynch, there's nothing stopping them from adding on to existing votes. A free GA kill is really nice to have for them
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 27, 2019, 09:42:24 am
Due to RL constraints, I extend the timer by 1 hour.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 10:45:39 am
Nevermind, I'm going to sleep, mafia pls no kill.

Even if they don't push the lynch, there's nothing stopping them from adding on to existing votes. A free GA kill is really nice to have for them

Since they already have a guaranteed NK on JCJ, If dd is town I actually find it more likely that they would have pushed his lynch since he's a strong player, and even more likely that they didn't push either lynch. If dd is mafia then they definitely pushed the JCJ lynch.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 27, 2019, 11:21:21 am
Nevermind, I'm going to sleep, mafia pls no kill.

Even if they don't push the lynch, there's nothing stopping them from adding on to existing votes. A free GA kill is really nice to have for them

Since they already have a guaranteed NK on JCJ, If dd is town I actually find it more likely that they would have pushed his lynch since he's a strong player, and even more likely that they didn't push either lynch. If dd is mafia then they definitely pushed the JCJ lynch.
If they were going to NK JCJ anyway, having the lynch be on him is already convenient for them. Now they can choose whoever they want for the NK, be it dd or someone else. At this stage, they didn't know there was a 2nd GA so there's no downside whatsoever
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 27, 2019, 06:50:36 pm
[20:05:09] ‹iancudorinmarian› So nervous for mafia D2
[20:05:23] ‹Calindu› How so?
[20:07:44] ‹Espithel› Ian is the big scared.
[20:10:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› But it's either genius, more info, or complete madness
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 27, 2019, 07:01:08 pm
Day 2


PlayerOa died. He was an Elemental and a Seraph.

IMPORTANT DECISION! I cannot update the new phase on Friday and Saturday, so please vote if you want a 1-day long Night 2 and 3-day long Day 3, OR, a super long Night 2 that ends on Sunday.

Day 2 has ended.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 27, 2019, 07:08:59 pm
I dont think Oa was the attempted NK N0. I am starting to think it was a random lynch. I dont think mafia has a powerful info role either. I DO think they have a role block skill though as ian was blocked again. if i was to guess, they have Ward. They are probably targeting ian with ward because they think he is a possible recipient to other info gathering roles OR ian has strong ability and they DO have an info role so they are making sure he does not use it. I dont think we should be targeting ian with info roles as it is possible mafia will be able to gather that information if they do have Ward.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 27, 2019, 07:16:25 pm
Also, i caught a firefly
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 27, 2019, 07:21:25 pm
All night results should be sent out now.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 27, 2019, 07:25:53 pm
I also caught a firefly
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 27, 2019, 07:33:35 pm
Welp.

While I wait for people to start shit:

immortal feud (1) - Espithel

feel like espithel is mafia
feel like link and shock are town

C'mon, this is mafia. That's a really threadbare analysis. Would you mind elaborating on it?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 27, 2019, 07:48:36 pm
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger

ian's ability failed a second time. If it had only failed once, I'd have attributed it to something like Seraph/Anubis, but having failed twice, it looks like someone is actively roleblocking him.

And it wouldn't make sense for a civ to be roleblocking in the early nights of the game.

shock was aggressive toward ian and even outright said he has a roleblocking ability. I don't think the fact that "he always plays like this" is a valid excuse for acting how a mafia would. If we have no better leads, this is my vote.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 27, 2019, 07:58:06 pm
For what it's worth, shock did say he didn't target iancu on n0 - whether you want to believe shock or not is obviously up for debate, I just figure that should be restated.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 27, 2019, 08:01:17 pm
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks

A guy who is not usually awkward is being awkward. He claims its because he is new to the mafia game, but mafia is not all that hard to understand if you are Civ. -Pretty much a sum of what link said in chat.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 27, 2019, 08:05:55 pm
[19:40:17] ‹Linkcat› Why am I awake right now.
[19:41:23] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Linkcat› how much did you sleep?
[19:41:36] ‹Linkcat› 8 hours
[19:42:34] ‹Linkcat› Someone post what iancu said in the thread.
[19:44:52] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 2 + 4 + 9 + 6 + 9 = 30 ...
[19:51:16] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› 10 minutes left.
[19:51:16] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Linkcat› you slept 8 hours and you're wondering why you're awake at...almost noon?
[19:51:20] ‹ddevans96› I mean relatable, but
[19:52:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Submachine in Forum Games. Imagination at work.
[19:52:45] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› >mafia lynches a mafia
[19:54:18] ‹ddevans96› what if the mafia is me/Espi/MW/one other
[19:54:30] ‹ddevans96› how much would we have wrinkled brained this early game
[19:57:53] ‹Espithel› That would be beautiful.
[19:58:50] ‹Linkcat› If I'm the one other then someone is going to have an aneurysm.
[19:59:04] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› The last member is rob77dp.
[19:59:06] ‹Espithel› I would cum.
[20:00:00] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35›
(4d19) 15 + 10 + 11 + 12 = 48 ...?
[20:00:33] ‹MasterWalks›
(2d30) 27 + 2 = 29 ...
[20:02:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Submachine in Forum Games. I remember the days before this post...
[20:02:18] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› LOL
[20:03:23] ‹iancudorinmarian› Huh
[20:03:54] ‹iancudorinmarian› Roleblocked again *sigh*
[20:04:34] ‹iancudorinmarian› If any of you psion finds the mind flayer, lynch them immediately
[20:06:20] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 3 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 2 = 18 ...
[20:07:01] ‹Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Did you target the same person as last night?
[20:07:10] ‹iancudorinmarian› No
[20:07:17] ‹Espithel› Different person?
[20:07:21] ‹Espithel› Hmm.
[20:07:27] ‹Espithel› That makes the graboid unlikely.
[20:07:30] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› Please hold on tight until I send out night action results.
[20:07:44] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› They will come. :)
[20:07:57] ‹iancudorinmarian› I made sure to target someone unexpected and non-graboid
[20:08:00] ‹ddevans96› W A I T
[20:08:16] ‹iancudorinmarian› Both the people I targeted weren't graboid
[20:09:14] ‹RootRanger› So the options include
[20:09:25] ‹MasterWalks› Im starting to think its Ward
[20:09:27] ‹RootRanger› Being roleblocked by a mafia or a bad civ
[20:09:30] ‹MasterWalks› thats blocking you
[20:09:36] ‹RootRanger› Being wardened by a civ who thinks he knows what he's doing but doesn't
[20:09:37] ‹Linkcat› Hey Root.
[20:09:58] ‹MasterWalks› i think its mafia using ward on him
[20:10:00] ‹RootRanger› Hitting Anubis or Seraph
[20:10:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. Is this the beginning of the end, or just the end of the beginning?
[20:10:04] ‹MasterWalks› or shock is being an ass
[20:10:13] ‹RootRanger› Or ian is mafia lying to get a roleblocking role lynched
[20:10:14] ‹iancudorinmarian› I did not target Oa
[20:10:20] ‹RootRanger› Could absolutely be shock roleblocking ian twice
[20:10:34] ‹iancudorinmarian› Sure, I could be lying
[20:10:40] ‹RootRanger› It might be that mafia is wardening another mafia
[20:10:52] ‹RootRanger› To protect against GN
[20:10:59] ‹iancudorinmarian› But getting roleblock killed isnt useful if I am mafia
[20:11:10] ‹RootRanger› I wouldn't assume roleblock if an ability fails once, but twice against separate people is unlikely
[20:11:27] ‹RootRanger› If mafia has a Psion
[20:11:30] ‹RootRanger› Also hi linkcat
[20:11:39] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dont think shock is flayer
[20:11:48] ‹RootRanger› If mafia has a Psion and finds a civ flayer/warden
[20:12:02] ‹RootRanger› They can have one mafia claim to be roleblocked, and another out someone
[20:12:02] ‹Espithel› I want shock to be the golden nymph
[20:12:08] ‹iancudorinmarian› Also, I still think Mobian is mafia
[20:12:09] ‹Espithel› That'd be the greatest meme
[20:12:09] ‹RootRanger› But
[20:12:12] ‹RootRanger› This strategy would kinda suck tbh
[20:12:19] ‹RootRanger› Seems like a huge risk for a small reward
[20:12:37] ‹ddevans96› good summon, 15 seconds
[20:12:45] ‹MasterWalks› If shock is flayer, then it makes total sense he is blocking you since he has expressed sus to ian. Him blocking ian twice is a total shock move
[20:14:01] ‹Espithel› It does.
[20:14:10] ‹Espithel› Assuming that's the case, is he scum for doing so?
[20:14:38] ‹MasterWalks› probably, but its day 2 and he promised an info dump today
[20:14:47] ‹Espithel› Wasn't that day 3?
[20:15:01] ‹MasterWalks› he moved it around a couple times so yea maybe
[20:15:16] ‹RootRanger› Hm
[20:15:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› In day 3 it's going to be day 4
[20:15:31] ‹iancudorinmarian› And do on
[20:15:33] ‹RootRanger› Yeah he did suspect ian for some reason, I don't really think he had reasoning behind it
[20:15:38] ‹iancudorinmarian› So
[20:15:49] ‹MasterWalks› If mafia has psion and flayer, killing seraph makes it easy for them
[20:16:01] ‹iancudorinmarian› Shock isnt GN
[20:16:29] ‹RootRanger› Seraph was on cooldown tonight anyways
[20:16:34] ‹RootRanger› last night*
[20:16:35] ‹MasterWalks› i caught a firefly
[20:17:10] ‹MasterWalks› If he used it N0 then yea its on cooldown but its very possible he didnt use it considering the math of him getting NK N0
[20:18:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. I found Wally.
[20:18:57] ‹ddevans96› is it not a safe assumption the FFQ and/or MW are town? i.e. they won't both be mafia?
[20:19:25] ‹Linkcat› No
[20:19:32] ‹Espithel› Depends. FFQ on an ER ability pretty much guarantees the firefly stays alive.
[20:19:41] ‹MasterWalks› FFQ im not too sure. Its very possible they are mafia
[20:19:48] ‹Espithel› Although Walks did just imply he has an EoR ability so er
[20:19:57] ‹Espithel› awkward
[20:19:59] ‹MasterWalks› And no not necessarily. Not every ER should be used ER
[20:20:33] ‹ddevans96› hm, I suppose you're right
[20:21:33] ‹Mobian› Yeah... I elected not to use my ability last night. It'll probably be some time before I do
[20:22:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Submachine in Forum Games. Awww yisssss. Mutha. Effin. Breadcrumbs.
[20:23:46] ‹MasterWalks› someone post something that has some info pls
[20:24:09] ‹RootRanger› I've got no hard info but I have suspicions based on how people are playing
[20:24:31] ‹MasterWalks› make a tier list of suspicions
[20:24:43] ‹RootRanger› Hmm
[20:25:00] ‹RootRanger› So tbh I haven't had time to follow it super closely
[20:25:03] ‹Mobian› I have nothing but suspicions myself.
[20:25:09] ‹RootRanger› But I have one person in mind who I think we should lynch and that's shock
[20:25:48] ‹MasterWalks› i want to see his info dump tbh
[20:25:56] ‹Espithel› The general consensus on Shock is he's not worth our time.
[20:25:57] ‹Linkcat› lol
[20:26:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from iancudorinmarian in Forum Games. I'm pretty sure...
[20:26:05] ‹RootRanger› Well
[20:26:10] ‹RootRanger› He's roleblocking ian which I don't like
[20:26:12] ‹Linkcat› Of course you want to lynch shock.
[20:26:18] ‹RootRanger› There's a limited number of roles that are actually useful for civs
[20:26:27] ‹Linkcat› You don't even know that.
[20:26:37] ‹ddevans96› we don't know for sure he's roleblocking iancu, it just seems likely
[20:26:42] ‹RootRanger› My policy is that if someone is acting in the best interest of mafia, they should be lynched, even if we think they're jsut a civ playing poorly
[20:26:46] ‹Linkcat› All of them are useful.
[20:26:48] ‹RootRanger› Well, yeah
[20:26:52] ‹RootRanger› Disagree
[20:27:04] ‹Linkcat› That's wrong too, never lynch a civ.
[20:27:21] ‹RootRanger› If they're c onfirmed civ then ofc not
[20:27:24] ‹RootRanger› But if we have no hard info on everyone
[20:27:33] ‹RootRanger› And there's one guy who is making an effort to screw over the civs
[20:27:36] ‹iancudorinmarian› Oh, my ability failed and I caught a firefly
[20:27:39] ‹RootRanger› It's a clear choice to me
[20:27:41] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 1 + 5 + 1 + 6 + 2 = 15 ...
[20:27:45] ‹Espithel› Two fireflies caught.
[20:27:49] ‹Espithel› Excuse me.
[20:27:50] ‹Espithel› What.
[20:27:51] ‹RootRanger› Hm
[20:27:57] ‹RootRanger› We can have two FFQs
[20:28:00] ‹Linkcat› Always lynch whoever has the highest chance of being mafia.
[20:28:13] ‹RootRanger› Yes and no
[20:28:21] ‹RootRanger› Players like shock undermine the civ's ability to find mafias
[20:28:29] ‹Linkcat› ‹@MasterWalks› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Did you guys hurt the fireflies?
[20:28:47] ‹RootRanger› There's a limited number of useful roles, since roles like MInd Flayer and Otyugh honestly shouldn't be used by the civs at all in early game
[20:28:57] ‹RootRanger› ian has one of those roles, and he's being blocked
[20:29:02] ‹RootRanger› that's hurting the civ's prospects
[20:29:16] ‹RootRanger› I think it's unlikely ian is mafia trying to frame roleblocking civ roles
[20:29:28] ‹RootRanger› Since it would be a huge risk to pull off just to kill 1 person and then get outed
[20:29:37] ‹iancudorinmarian› Flayer is higher priority than firefly
[20:29:46] ‹iancudorinmarian› So that is how I caught it
[20:29:56] ‹RootRanger› He could be a mafia getting roleblocked, I suppose
[20:30:00] ‹iancudorinmarian› It cant see higher prio roles
[20:30:14] ‹RootRanger› Anyone could be mafia tho so I wouldn't use that reasoning
[20:30:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› @link I keep then in a jar
[20:30:34] ‹iancudorinmarian› Them
[20:30:51] ‹Linkcat› Just in case your dreams get real bizzare?
[20:30:57] ‹Mobian› I will say that mine is one of the combo roles, and I won't be using it until I find someone trustworthy
[20:31:13] ‹MasterWalks› No i has him in a jar. named him francis
[20:31:16] ‹RootRanger› So basically what I'm saying is that ian is likely a civ with a useful role, and shock is likely the one roleblocking him - that makes for a clear choice in my mind
[20:31:29] ‹Linkcat› Please don't out your role.
[20:31:42] ‹Espithel› By the way. Because I love you.
[20:31:43] ‹RootRanger› Ofc not
[20:31:48] ‹Espithel› ‹@MasterWalks› I wasn't roleblocked. :^)
[20:32:01] ‹RootRanger› But someone who uses their role at all in the early rounds is more important than half the roles in this game which are not very useful at all
[20:32:12] ‹MasterWalks› no one except me is sus of you then
[20:32:28] ‹Linkcat› That was to Mobian.
[20:32:43] ‹RootRanger› OH, yeah
[20:32:47] ‹MasterWalks› I will have to put my focus elsewhere until i can get concrete evidence that you are mafia
[20:32:56] ‹Espithel› Attaboy!
[20:33:03] ‹Espithel› You've gotta stay flexible in mafia.
[20:33:06] ‹RootRanger› Concrete evidence can only come from 1 person in the game and we don't want him revealing his identity
[20:33:29] ‹RootRanger› I'm open to chancing the lynch on Espi, but I'd want MW to be lynched afterward if Espi turns civ
[20:33:58] ‹RootRanger› Although since he just said he wasn't roleblocked, he could have a useful role too which I wouldn't want to lynch
[20:34:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. The grammar could use some work.
[20:34:08] ‹RootRanger› Still feel bad about jcj :/
[20:34:09] ‹MasterWalks› not necessarily. I wait for him to slip up then blast the hell outta that slip up until people are convinced.
[20:34:21] ‹Espithel› But what if I never slip up
[20:34:23] ‹Espithel› :^)
[20:34:34] ‹PlayerOa› Oh I died
[20:34:35] ‹PlayerOa› Rip
[20:34:44] ‹Linkcat› F
[20:34:45] ‹MasterWalks› mafia always slips up and you are probably a bit rusty
[20:34:47] ‹MasterWalks› F
[20:35:04] ‹ddevans96› F
[20:35:05] ‹RootRanger› Eh
[20:35:14] ‹Mobian› F
[20:35:16] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@PlayerOa› More time for next league season! :D
[20:35:17] ‹RootRanger› We can hold off on the lynch on Espi for a few rounds if we want
[20:35:18] ‹iancudorinmarian› F
[20:35:25] ‹MasterWalks› speaking of
[20:35:27] ‹Espithel› G
[20:35:29] ‹RootRanger› But if MW dies and turns civ I'd want Espi lynched immediately after
[20:35:36] ‹ddevans96› yeah, again, if you think Root is rusty in a -logic game-, I think you're crazy
[20:35:49] ‹RootRanger› Or if it gets to lynch-or-die then I think Espi is still a solid choice
[20:35:53] ‹ddevans96› maybe that's just you not knowing Root, but
[20:35:54] ‹RootRanger› ty dd <3
[20:36:00] ‹MasterWalks› No not root
[20:36:02] ‹MasterWalks› espi
[20:36:10] ‹ddevans96› oh
[20:36:12] ‹Espithel› Why do you want me lynched if MW turns civ
[20:36:14] ‹Espithel› I don't care about him
[20:36:19] ‹Espithel› Stop making me care about him
[20:36:22] ‹Espithel› aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAA
[20:36:25] ‹ddevans96› people were saying that about Root earlier in the game, so guess I misunderstood here
[20:36:41] ‹RootRanger› God it was so frustrating last game tbh
[20:36:53] ‹MasterWalks› i care about you espi. you should care about me.  :heart:
[20:36:54] ‹RootRanger› When civs were roleblocking each other and hiding information from their confirmed civ
[20:37:13] ‹RootRanger› And then I lynch one of 'em and everyone's like "root dumb"
[20:37:21] ‹MasterWalks› *cough* insig *cough*
[20:37:25] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@MasterWalks› Lol like I spent hours of hours of mafia analysis anyway.
[20:37:30] ‹ddevans96› yeah, last game was a shitshow to watch lol
[20:37:32] ‹iancudorinmarian› NoobRanger
[20:37:33] ‹RootRanger› yeah.... it's k now tho
[20:37:46] • Espithel licks Walks
[20:38:14] ‹RootRanger› So
[20:38:37] ‹RootRanger› My lynch order would go 1.) shock 2.) Espi
[20:38:54] ‹MasterWalks› too far
[20:39:07] ‹RootRanger› wdym?
[20:39:19] • Espithel fucking glomps Walks
[20:39:20] ‹Espithel› OwO
[20:39:28] ‹RootRanger› I see the merits of waiting a few rounds to lynch Espi
[20:39:33] ‹Espithel› What's it like being cared about
[20:39:45] ‹MasterWalks› not good
[20:39:46] ‹RootRanger› Just as long as we remember the mW/Espi feud
[20:40:17] ‹Linkcat› I really don't think there's anything there.
[20:40:19] ‹Espithel› What
[20:40:25] ‹Espithel› Feud
[20:40:33] ‹Linkcat› It's just a normal scumread.
[20:40:35] ‹RootRanger› Idk maybe feud is the wrong word
[20:40:43] ‹RootRanger› Eh it felt stronger than a normal scumread
[20:40:46] ‹Linkcat› A bad one.
[20:40:51] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@RootRanger› btw, last game you wanted to lynch me even though I was hiding nothing from you D:
[20:40:52] ‹Espithel› That's because Walks has conviction
[20:41:00] ‹Espithel› He has the power of god and anime on his side#
[20:41:07] ‹RootRanger› @ian you literally never PMed me your targets bruh
[20:41:08] ‹ddevans96› 'feud' is a term my group uses for -any- conflict where we shouldn't be trusting either side, one-sided or not
[20:41:11] ‹RootRanger› Also
[20:41:14] ‹ddevans96› I shouldn'
[20:41:20] ‹RootRanger› It was lynch-or-die and if I killed you, it would kill Mobian as well bc of your role
[20:41:24] ‹ddevans96› I shouldn't have used it here, but it is what it is
[20:41:43] ‹RootRanger› My scumreads at that point were you, sub, mobian, and by lynching you I would kill 2 people on the list instead of just 1
[20:41:54] ‹RootRanger› So
[20:42:02] ‹RootRanger› I have an idea of what's happening with MW/Espi but don't want to outright say it
[20:42:09] ‹RootRanger› I think for now
[20:42:11] ‹RootRanger› we should focus on other targets
[20:42:23] ‹RootRanger› ie shock
[20:42:42] ‹Linkcat› Just because he pushed it hard doesn't make it a better read, I do that all the time.
[20:46:31] ‹MyNameIsJoey› Hey Root, been a while
[20:46:39] ‹MyNameIsJoey› In hindsight, hey everybody else, been a while as well
[20:46:42] ‹MyNameIsJoey› :D
[20:47:00] ‹Mobian› Welcome back
[20:47:23] ‹ddevans96› o/
[20:47:53] ‹MyNameIsJoey› not back per se, just in chat, looking to see if someone answered my request in forum earlier, looks like no answers yet.
[20:48:00] ‹RootRanger› Oh hey joey
[20:48:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements PvP League - Suggestions and Fee... from MasterWalks in PvP League. There is no spit in this post!
[20:48:46] ‹iancudorinmarian› Hey jijo
[20:48:57] ‹iancudorinmarian› #bringjijoback
[20:48:59] ‹Mobian› Can someone upload this chat?
[20:49:43] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› If the chat doesn't continue, I can upload it.
[20:49:55] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› Otherwise I would let it continue.
[20:50:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from RootRanger in Forum Games. Am I sexy for knowing that?
[20:50:53] ‹MasterWalks› is anyone against lynching kaempf?
[20:51:09] ‹MasterWalks› I am starting to think he is playing as a first time mafia
[20:51:48] ‹ddevans96› we tossed that possibility around a bit last round
[20:51:53] ‹Linkcat› I still want to lynch him.
[20:51:56] ‹ddevans96› I'm still not really for or against it
[20:52:12] ‹MasterWalks› I think we should apply some pressure
[20:52:20] ‹RootRanger› Could someone summarize the argument against kamepf
[20:52:27] ‹RootRanger› I'd been reading the thread but not super closely
[20:52:56] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 8 + 9 + 9 + 6 + 5 = 37 ...!
[20:54:07] ‹MyNameIsJoey› I'm in the opinion in mafia that
[20:54:13] ‹MyNameIsJoey› No argument for is an argument against.
[20:55:00] ‹ddevans96› k
[20:55:10] ‹Linkcat› He was awkward and then suddenly wasn't awkward, I think this is because he talked to his mafia team and then adjusted his play.
[20:56:11] ‹RootRanger› Hm
[20:56:17] ‹MasterWalks› kaempf is not usually an awkward person too. Hes usually clean cut in his decisions and has a lot of personal confidence. He blames his awkwardness on being new to the Mafia game
[20:56:28] ‹RootRanger› Being new isn't hard if you're civ lol
[20:56:31] ‹MasterWalks› which i find a bit strange
[20:56:35] ‹MasterWalks› exactly
[20:56:38] ‹RootRanger› I see the merits of it
[20:56:55] ‹RootRanger› So I'd be ok with a lynch on shock/Espi/kaempf then
[20:57:09] ‹RootRanger› I still prefer shock because it's going based on hard information
[20:57:27] ‹RootRanger› ie results of direct roles rather than reads on playstyle
[20:58:25] ‹Mobian› ‹@RootRanger› you're assuming Shock was honest about his role. I'm not certain he was.
[20:58:50] ‹RootRanger› Claiming a role you don't have generally isn't a good civ strategy
[20:59:00] ‹RootRanger› I'm hugely against civs lying as part of their strategy
[20:59:02] ‹ddevans96› he kinda did backpedal Flayer, and then he backpedaled -that-
[20:59:17] ‹RootRanger› If we don't call them out for it, mafia can lie too, and that makes them way harder to deal with
[20:59:24] ‹ddevans96› so...yeah, if you want to policy lynch based on lying, then at some point he certainly was
[20:59:26] ‹RootRanger› Idk
[20:59:33] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› The problem is, its not looking good on him right now that he claimed Flayer and put sus on ian, then ian gets blocked twice in a row
[20:59:34] ‹RootRanger› If nobody wants to lynch shock I'm still ok with the other 2 options
[20:59:53] ‹RootRanger› YEah, policy lynch is a good way of putting it
[20:59:56] ‹ddevans96› but he never claimed to block iancu, and claimed that he didn't
[21:00:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. Awww yisssss. Mutha. Effin. Breadcrumbs.
[21:01:16] ‹Mobian› Shock is also less vocal this game, which is likely an attempt to control himself.... yeah, better safe than sorry
[21:01:24] ‹iancudorinmarian› There could well be 2 flayers
[21:01:48] ‹ddevans96› yeah, that's a possibility
[21:01:50] ‹iancudorinmarian› Though I find that unliky
[21:02:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. Be sure to give them a raise!
[21:02:04] ‹iancudorinmarian› Since noone else claimed to be blocked
[21:02:46] ‹MasterWalks› ok ill be back in like 6 hours. No lynch on me pls
[21:03:13] ‹RootRanger› I should get some work done as well
[21:03:17] ‹RootRanger› Will follow the thread
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 27, 2019, 08:09:51 pm
Can’t have blocked ian if he caught a firefly. So either we’re both liars or neither. You pick Root.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 27, 2019, 08:12:07 pm
Firefly is lower priority, so it cant see it
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 27, 2019, 08:12:14 pm
Can’t have blocked ian if he caught a firefly. So either we’re both liars or neither. You pick Root.

FFs can't detect higher priority actions.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 27, 2019, 08:21:13 pm
Can’t have blocked ian if he caught a firefly. So either we’re both liars or neither. You pick Root.

You should fully understand the rules before attempting to maintain a power position and marionette town.

/me rings bell of shame
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 08:31:17 pm
Hey shock, just in case the first response wasn't clear, and the second response wasn't clear, and even the third response didn't properly convey your error, fireflies can't see Psionic Wave on the night they were sent. Just wanted to make sure you know, since telling you once couldn't possibly be enough.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 27, 2019, 08:56:50 pm
Can confirm that there is at least one Otyugh in the game. dd was targeted by them.

Gonna refrain on voting for now, but figured that it could be vaguely useful to give this info.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 27, 2019, 08:58:57 pm
Ooh, interesting.

Who would want me dead?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 27, 2019, 09:06:10 pm
Most likely a town Otyugh, as mafia revealing themself that early can't be worth it.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 09:22:19 pm
Guys, please stop outing your roles.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 27, 2019, 09:43:54 pm
@MasterWalks
@Espithel
@RootRanger

I know you 3 do not trust me at all and would be some of the last ones to trust me. This is going to be harsh, but the three of you are all town and you're all really bad at playing as town. For reals MW, espithel is town okay? I know all 3 of you are going to ignore this, so I have a plan. Keep me alive for one more day, then I info bomb on day 3 and reveal all 4 mafia (I currently am pretty sure about 3). Then you lynch me on day 3 because you're not going to trust me until I'm confirmed town. But when I die and I flip town, you 3 need to band together and stick to my plan that I lay out on day 3. Don't be dissuaded and tricked by all the other losers playing this game. They're really good at manipulating. I know this text seems patronizing and disrespectful. In all honesty, it probably is, but we all care about winning this game.

I'm asking you to trust in this plan because step one of the plan requires me getting lynched. After I get lynched, you can feel free to ignore anything I say. But at least keep me alive for one day and then lynch me.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 27, 2019, 09:49:43 pm
I wasn't really planning on trying to lynch you, so alright.

You live today.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 27, 2019, 09:50:42 pm
I want it on public record that I kept shock alive on day one because I suspected he'd play this kind of gambit and I decided to put faith into it.

We can find out on day 3 whether he's useful or not. Who would we rather lynch today?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 27, 2019, 10:21:32 pm
I don't expect shock's claims to be any better than random noise.

That being said, if ddevans wants to go for a different lynch, I'll follow through with it, since I think he is almost certainly a civ. The best explanation for usage of the Otyugh ability this early in the game is that a mafia Otyugh expects to be lynched soon and wants to do something useful before he dies. If ddevans were mafia, the Otyugh wouldn't really have enough to go off of to justify using his ability so early on. It's also possible that Insig is just outright lying about what he saw, and both of them are mafia, but that wouldn't make any sense at all since neither of them is under risk of being lynched so they don't need to do anything drastic. If we lynch Insig, we can know for sure if he's telling the truth about what he saw, plus he seemed to be blind roleblocking which wouldn't make sense for a civ but I could see him doing anyways.

I guess kaempf is still a decent enough lynch? I'd prefer Espithel but this is if we want to listen to shock.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 10:28:08 pm
I doubt a mafia would feel enough pressure on Night 1 to Devour someone. It's more likely a newer player who thinks they have a great read.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 10:31:46 pm
I think it's actually most likely to be a Fate Egg ability that they wanted to use while they had the chance.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 27, 2019, 10:36:15 pm
I just quickly read up what happened... for an hour. :/
and here are a few things about playstyle I noticed:
I am not so sure catching Fireflies should be reported anymore. With 2(+) FFQs we could quicklly give away everyone who does not target people.
There might not be a second civ GA, since ian caught a Firefly.
insig claimed his role?!


I hoped to get some vague theories in today, too, but will hopefully get around to it tomorrow. Unless shock solves it all by himself.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 27, 2019, 10:38:05 pm
To the ones claiming I'm never awkward, you clearly havent seen me outside my comfort zone before. And how would you, its the internet, I'm good at the game you know me from and I have somewhat avoided touching on other subjects with you.
Pipeworks revealed that I was way too trusting in this type of game (since literally everyone else had 2 spies and I knew I wasnt and both the others of our 3 potential true teammates could correctly state our faction goal (on simultaneous reveal) I had just assumed we were a bigger but limited through roles team). So thats a hit to my confidence right there. Additionally I felt the need to talk a lot in order to gain information, while i had nothing to go off yet. I am convinced I would be less awkward if I knew who my teammates were. Perhaps it would have been easier to take a backseat as town, but that wasnt how I heard this game was supposed to be played.


Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 27, 2019, 10:41:46 pm
Kaempf, you're a noob. I'm your teammate. Act like that's a 100% true fact and things will go well for you.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 27, 2019, 11:16:40 pm
Can confirm that there is at least one Otyugh in the game. dd was targeted by them.

Gonna refrain on voting for now, but figured that it could be vaguely useful to give this info.

Ooh, interesting.

Who would want me dead?

Quote from: chat interaction dd/insig
[21:49:09] ‹ddevans96› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› post in mafia when you can. I want to hear your thoughts
[21:50:29] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ok
[21:50:52] ‹ddevans96› ty

I find this interaction quite strange, if not forced, dd asks Insig to post his thoughts, and 5 minutes later he outs himself as Warden and says an Otyugh targeted dd. I believe that's a lie, but let's see the cases if it were true:

1. Mafia Otyugh, Town dd: Doesn't really make much sense really, there's no reason for mafia to force a kill on dd, who was very close to being lynched D1, while outing one of their own.
2. Town Otyugh, Unknown dd: Again, doesn't really make much sense and is pretty much a terrible play, no reason for anyone to do it.

The only way I see an Otyugh using their ability on dd this early is if a Fate Egg got GN and investigated him N0 and then got Otyugh and targetted him N1, but dd said he caught a firefly N0 and no one called him out on this, so this is not possible.

Now I'm not sure if they are mafia or if someone actually targeted dd as Otyugh with no additional info, because I also find it hard to believe they'll try something like this if they were mafia.
I'm going to put my vote on dd for now, but will consider changing if someone has a better lead.

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
ddevans96 (1) - Calindu
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 27, 2019, 11:27:04 pm
Continued from the last one.

[13:05:27] ‹ddevans96› Espi: what percentage of your vote on IF is omgus/pressure/actual desire to lynch
[13:05:28] ‹Mobian› Checking in from work myself
[13:05:57] ‹Mobian› Omgus?
[13:06:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. When it absolutely, positively, has to be read overnight.
[13:06:04] ‹ddevans96› oh my god you suck
[13:06:10] ‹ddevans96› basically 'I'm voting for you bc you voted on me'
[13:06:27] ‹Mobian› Oh, spite
[13:06:32] ‹ddevans96› pretty much
[13:06:49] ‹MyNameIsJoey› On the website i used to play mafia on
[13:06:55] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› If that really is what omgus means, it's a stupid acronym.
[13:06:59] ‹MyNameIsJoey› there was this one guy who could somehow always tell whether or not I was mafia.
[13:07:05] ‹ddevans96› how is it stupid?
[13:07:47] ‹Espithel› ‹@ddevans96› 0%/99%/1%
[13:07:52] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› It doesn't convey the actual meaning of the vote, plus it's smack talk.
[13:08:09] ‹ddevans96› it was named after an actual exchange in the earlier days of mafiascum
[13:08:36] ‹ddevans96› also - it does, and it isn't
[13:08:46] ‹ddevans96› I mean...I guess it doesn't directly
[13:09:05] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› From that acronym, I would have guessed that it's a pity vote for players who can't play properly.
[13:09:14] ‹ddevans96› but, like...it's definitely relatable
[13:09:21] ‹Espithel› OMG YOU SUCK, EVERYONE LYNCH
[13:09:22] ‹Espithel› er
[13:09:25] ‹Espithel› I need er
[13:09:27] ‹Espithel› DEMAGOG
[13:09:31] ‹ddevans96› it's not 'suck' as in 'you're bad at the game'
[13:09:40] ‹Espithel› It's suck as in "i hate you >:("
[13:09:44] ‹ddevans96› it's 'you suck' as in 'fuck you'
[13:10:04] ‹Espithel› 'please do :heart:'
[13:10:10] ‹ddevans96› or more accurately, what Espi said
[13:10:26] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› That makes more sense, though it's not the first thing that would come to my mind in any of the parallel universes.
[13:10:50] • Espithel coughs.
[13:11:01] ‹Espithel› It's just, I get feud's not a 100% tryhard meta player
[13:11:34] ‹Espithel› But you don't get to not exist, say "I think Espi's scum, I think these two people are tone", nothing else, and then go back to not existing
[13:11:35] ‹Linkcat› It's his first game lol.
[13:11:44] ‹Espithel› these two people are town*
[13:11:53] ‹Linkcat› He gave reads, that's good.
[13:12:10] ‹Espithel› You should explain your reads, though.
[13:12:14] ‹Linkcat› I happen to like two of those reads.
[13:12:22] ‹ddevans96› I guess an equivalent would be if you play Catan, someone moves the robber to you, you said 'oh my god you suck', and then you move the robber to him in retaliation
[13:12:31] ‹ddevans96› if you don't play Catan, that means nothing
[13:12:43] ‹ddevans96› my point is it's applicable to a lot of competitive games
[13:13:06] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Linkcat› which two?
[13:13:17] ‹iancudorinmarian› And yeah, that happens a lot
[13:14:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Mobian in Forum Games. Do you even post?
[13:14:45] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› I'm out for the night, but someone should keep posting chatlogs.
[13:14:51] ‹Guest-Condor-1ea56› Bye y'all~
[13:15:01] ‹iancudorinmarian› Cya sub
[13:15:26] ‹Calindu› Unless another player is just insanely far ahead, I always retaliate with the robber in Catan lol
[13:15:44] ‹Linkcat› Me and shock.
[13:16:30] ‹ddevans96› so you're saying that you think shock and Espi are both town?
[13:16:33] ‹ddevans96› hm
[13:16:33] ‹Linkcat› I mean, you probably shouldn't be townreading me, but I like anyone who does.
[13:16:51] ‹Linkcat› No, Espi is neutral with you.
[13:16:59] ‹Linkcat› Shock is town though
[13:17:31] ‹ddevans96› I also think shock is town
[13:18:11] ‹Mobian› I'm undecided
[13:20:59] ‹Linkcat› Hi undecided, I'm dad.
[13:21:30] ‹iancudorinmarian› These jokes will never get old
[13:21:31] ‹Mobian› I never thought you'd show up
[13:22:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. It's not a mystery.
[13:32:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. I found Wally.
[13:34:55] ‹ddevans96› lmao
[13:35:00] ‹ddevans96› quality interactions
[13:40:40] ‹Linkcat› Thanks
[13:41:36] ‹ddevans96› god I want to send an even snarkier response
[13:41:38] ‹shockcannon› Honestly
[13:41:45] ‹shockcannon› Root is really bad at mafia
[13:41:58] ‹ddevans96› if you say so
[13:42:02] ‹shockcannon› Imo might be the worst person at reads
[13:42:28] ‹shockcannon› He legit only lynches town
[13:42:31] ‹ddevans96› btw: did you know the ability 'Queen' has a lower priority than the ability 'Psionic Wave'?
[13:42:41] ‹shockcannon› Clearly not
[13:42:51] ‹shockcannon› Which should be even more of a sign that I’m town
[13:49:09] ‹ddevans96› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› post in mafia when you can. I want to hear your thoughts
[13:50:29] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ok
[13:50:52] ‹ddevans96› ty
[14:14:30] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Honestly dd is super sketch
[14:14:40] ‹ddevans96› who speaks
[14:14:47] ‹ddevans96› I don't take note of guest tags very often
[14:16:34] ‹Linkcat› shock
[14:17:41] ‹ddevans96› why am I sketch? would be interested to hear reasoning
[14:24:31] ‹shockcannon› too hard to explain
[14:24:38] ‹shockcannon› root is bad at this game
[14:24:43] ‹shockcannon› people should really ignore him
[14:24:54] ‹shockcannon› or at least just not follow his votes
[14:26:07] ‹shockcannon› maf killing playeroa was a pretty bad move though imo
[14:26:26] ‹ddevans96› it was the least relevant player they could have killed
[14:26:30] ‹ddevans96› it gave town zero information
[14:26:36] ‹ddevans96› fine kill imo
[14:27:11] ‹shockcannon› I was having a hard time figuring out the 4th mafia
[14:27:17] ‹shockcannon› playeroa was one of the potential ones on my list
[14:27:29] ‹shockcannon› so mafia just narrowed it down for me instead of killing a super obvious townie
[14:27:52] ‹ddevans96› if you say so
[14:27:57] ‹PlayerOa› Me mafia
[14:28:01] ‹PlayerOa› lol
[14:30:52] ‹shockcannon› i think there's a decent i get lynched day 2
[14:31:13] ‹shockcannon› but just know that ian is feeding everyone lies
[14:33:19] ‹shockcannon› ‹@ddevans96› do you think ian is mafia?
[14:34:06] ‹Espithel› I think that you have to persuade us that he is using facts, evidence, and logic.
[14:34:26] ‹Espithel› He has to be DESTROYED by FACTS and LOGIC
[14:35:07] ‹ddevans96› I have no reason to believe iancu is mafia right now, other than your belief that he is
[14:35:10] ‹ddevans96› but I do think you're town
[14:35:22] ‹shockcannon› lol
[14:35:29] ‹shockcannon› i'm so tempted to reveal 3 of the mafia right now
[14:35:35] ‹shockcannon› because it's painfully obvious
[14:35:37] ‹ddevans96› do it
[14:35:42] ‹shockcannon› but I'll hold to my word and info dump on day 3
[14:36:01] ‹ddevans96› k
[14:36:24] ‹MyNameIsJoey› if you have a read, and you are not saying it, you are helping mafia.
[14:36:41] ‹Espithel› Ah, you see
[14:36:43] ‹MyNameIsJoey› because right or wrong, your read helps town reason further
[14:36:52] ‹Espithel› Shock needs to find the fourth one before he becomes really helpful
[14:36:54] ‹Espithel› :^)
[14:37:17] ‹shockcannon› when i list the mafia
[14:37:21] ‹MyNameIsJoey› I have no idea what the situation is, i am not following this mafia.
[14:37:22] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Espithel› More chances to hit one!
[14:37:29] ‹shockcannon› town won't believe me until one of those mafia die or enough other people die
[14:37:40] ‹shockcannon› and I don't trust them to figure out the 4th mafia on their own
[14:38:13] ‹ddevans96› that's an incorrect assumption
[14:38:16] ‹MyNameIsJoey› a mafia game can't be won alone.
[14:38:31] ‹ddevans96› it's not really about 'believing' you
[14:44:22] ‹shockcannon› alright espithel
[14:44:27] ‹shockcannon› i'm gambling my trust in you
[14:45:22] ‹ddevans96› you have me to thank for allowing you to live past day one
[14:45:25] ‹shockcannon› and I think my post will ensure you stay alive this phase
[14:45:33] ‹ddevans96› bc all I had to do was say 'kill shock' and it would have happened
[14:45:43] ‹ddevans96› so if your gambit actually works, I want half credit
[14:46:05] ‹shockcannon› lol
[14:46:25] ‹shockcannon› this mafia has been extremely amusing for me
[14:46:34] ‹Linkcat› I would have tried to stop it but probably failed without a better target.
[14:46:36] ‹shockcannon› sure, you can have half credit
[14:46:40] ‹Espithel› I think that's a pass when it comes to trust.
[14:47:05] ‹shockcannon› lynch me day 3
[14:47:15] ‹shockcannon› I just asked MW to trust that you're town
[14:47:34] ‹shockcannon› and I asked the person who just voted on me to wait one day before lynching me
[14:48:00] ‹shockcannon› trusting in the craziest people is sometimes the least crazy thing to do
[14:49:19] ‹Espithel› I think you're town.
[14:51:02] ‹Espithel› Me lynching you won't change how much I trust or don't trust you. You're a wild one.
[14:51:20] ‹majofa› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-game...
[14:51:24] ‹shockcannon› it will for root and mw though
[14:51:45] ‹Espithel› Probably.
[15:24:02] ‹RootRanger› So
[15:24:08] ‹RootRanger› Oh nvm ddevans is gone
[15:25:01] ‹RootRanger› I just want to comment that shock has more or less the same info as everyone else, at best he knows 1 mafia by being GN
[15:25:14] ‹RootRanger› Placing trust in him to correctly name 2 or 3, or god forbid all 4, is unrealistic
[15:25:42] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I know all mafia
[15:25:43] ‹RootRanger› He said I'm a town who's really bad at playing town, so I guess he was at least half correct there lol
[15:25:45] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› And I ain’t even playing
[15:25:48] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Too bad I can’t say them
[15:26:08] ‹Linkcat› Lol
[15:26:19] ‹RootRanger› I know 1 civ and I'm 90% sure on another 1 lol
[15:26:35] ‹Linkcat› I mean, he got 2/3 last time, so I'll give his reads consideration.
[15:27:06] ‹RootRanger› He literally just named the people who had told him their roels
[15:27:23] ‹RootRanger› And it happened to be that mafia were playing recklessly that game
[15:27:33] ‹RootRanger› Now he doesn't even have PMs to go off of
[15:27:37] ‹RootRanger› It's random noise


Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 27, 2019, 11:30:27 pm
The fact that we didn't kill Espithel or ddevans the other day and instead wasted our lynch on JCJ was a real setback. I can't seem to convince anyone that ian is mafia, so I guess I'll concede with gaining the info we should've already gained.

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 27, 2019, 11:53:13 pm
Definitely should have mentioned this earlier, but I didn't target anyone on N0.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 28, 2019, 12:24:19 am
[16:26:57] ‹shockcannon› killing jcj was actually such a missed opportunity
[16:27:20] ‹shockcannon› espithel or ddevans kill really would be more helpful
[16:27:37] ‹Linkcat› Damnit shock, I just posted the log.
[16:27:51] ‹shockcannon› who cares
[16:28:41] ‹shockcannon› eh i'm getting bored again
[16:28:44] ‹shockcannon› maybe i make my move today
[16:28:52] ‹shockcannon› we'll see if ddevans tries to out me after i turn on him
[16:31:50] ‹shockcannon› also
[16:31:57] ‹shockcannon› root and MW are comically bad with their reads
[16:32:50] ‹Calindu› Well, MW based his whole theory on him interpreting a question about the rules, since he's clearly not GN
[16:34:54] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Honestly he could be
[16:35:08] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Would be good cover from mafia
[16:36:23] ‹Calindu› He's not, he claimed he caught a firefly
[16:36:51] ‹Calindu› And not using GN ability would be dumb
[16:37:28] ‹Linkcat› It would have been on cooldown.
[16:37:51] ‹Calindu› Ooh, it's EoR
[16:37:58] ‹Calindu› I was almost certain it's ER
[16:38:06] ‹Calindu› Well, this changes things
[16:44:46] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I really hope I make it to the next day
[16:45:09] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› The things I’m going to reveal should really pin down a couple mafia and several definite town
[16:45:43] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I love how root thinks I know nothing more than anyone else
[16:46:39] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› If he underestimates me this much during trials it’ll be a 5-0 easy
[16:48:34] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› is you blocked ian n0 I think you should reveal that
[16:48:42] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› If
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 28, 2019, 12:24:37 am
Welp.

While I wait for people to start shit:

immortal feud (1) - Espithel

feel like espithel is mafia
feel like link and shock are town

C'mon, this is mafia. That's a really threadbare analysis. Would you mind elaborating on it?
just a feeling
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 12:38:04 am
Can confirm that there is at least one Otyugh in the game. dd was targeted by them.

Gonna refrain on voting for now, but figured that it could be vaguely useful to give this info.

Definitely should have mentioned this earlier, but I didn't target anyone on N0.

This is strange. Not really the content but what you did here. You've been super silent all game and the first bit of info aside from vore you say is your role and target, and even your N0 action. Warden is really good late game and you role claim when there are only 2/19 dead. Can you explain your thought process doing this? Did you not think people would assume you were ward based on that info? Or do you think Ward is a bad role?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 28, 2019, 12:45:04 am
Welp.

While I wait for people to start shit:

immortal feud (1) - Espithel

feel like espithel is mafia
feel like link and shock are town

C'mon, this is mafia. That's a really threadbare analysis. Would you mind elaborating on it?
just a feeling

Can you put your feelings into words so we can feel your feelings?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 12:50:48 am
Everything in Cal's post makes sense, up to the point where he voted for me - basically everything there points to more of a scumread on IW than on me

IW/kae/Cal have had some interesting interaction history this game, as Espi and I have previously noted - I strongly suspect one is mafia, and probably not two.

Also - I suggest considering whether or not me being lynched is something the mafia would desire or not.

Add my vote to kaempfer for the time being, please.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 28, 2019, 12:55:10 am
I think we are still missing moehrpis justification for JcJ-lynch; he made a vague claim about jcj being too quiet, later mused taking it back but didn't.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 28, 2019, 01:01:40 am
[02:52:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. DANGER ZONE!
[02:55:57] ‹kaempfer13› weird I didnt get a post inbetween writing warning
[02:56:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from kaempfer13 in Forum Games. It needs a gold star.
[02:56:32] ‹kaempfer13› what parallels do you see between me and IW?
[02:57:44] ‹kaempfer13› and as for cal it seems to mostly both of us happening to think that mws claim of espimafia is baseless
[02:57:57] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 8 + 7 + 8 + 8 + 4 = 35 ...!
[02:58:13] ‹kaempfer13› in that case espi lynch would be more logical than either of us
[02:58:15] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Masterwalks
[02:58:25] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Ddevans is using you
[02:58:30] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Don’t let him use you
[02:59:51] ‹kaempfer13› since dd isnt actually here, I guess im basically chatlogging myself I guess
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 28, 2019, 01:16:56 am

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon

I think we are still missing moehrpis justification for JcJ-lynch; he made a vague claim about jcj being too quiet, later mused taking it back but didn't.

This is true. Here's a question:

Did moehrpi start it?
Or, did Root, sensing an opportunity, continue it?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 28, 2019, 01:17:34 am
Welp.

While I wait for people to start shit:

immortal feud (1) - Espithel

feel like espithel is mafia
feel like link and shock are town

C'mon, this is mafia. That's a really threadbare analysis. Would you mind elaborating on it?
just a feeling

Can you put your feelings into words so we can feel your feelings?
am bad with words
does you starting the lynch votes with me prove anything?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 01:20:06 am

For reals MW, espithel is town okay?
The fact that we didn't kill Espithel or ddevans the other day and instead wasted our lynch on JCJ was a real setback.
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon

Am i right to be confused here? are you trying to lynch off town or did new info gained within just a couple hours change your mind?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 28, 2019, 01:21:34 am
Welp.

While I wait for people to start shit:

immortal feud (1) - Espithel

feel like espithel is mafia
feel like link and shock are town

C'mon, this is mafia. That's a really threadbare analysis. Would you mind elaborating on it?
just a feeling

Can you put your feelings into words so we can feel your feelings?
am bad with words
does you starting the lynch votes with me prove anything?

I did it because I want you to speak.
If you're being willfully quiet, threatening a lynch is generally a good way of opening loose tongues.

Do you want help speaking?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 28, 2019, 01:23:05 am
sure
also why does shock think you are town
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 01:25:52 am
The connections are between Cal and kae, and Cal and IW. Espi can discuss the former and I've talked about the latter in thread - I'm away from home on phone currently.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 28, 2019, 01:26:41 am
I still think he's town. Killing espithel day 1 would've given us more info than JCJ though. If I changed my mind and thought espithel was mafia I would probably be voting him right now. But I'm not.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 28, 2019, 01:33:32 am
What was the post I made that made you think "wow, Espithel looks scummy", Feud? Quote it. I'm sure I'll be able to articulate your thoughts for you.

If it was multiple posts, quote all of those.

Please do the same for Link and Shock being town.

As for why Shock thinks I'm town? I have no idea. Shock doesn't play by the rules of normal mafia. Root would argue that's grounds to lynch him - for being a "useful idiot" to the mafia. Trying to ask for explanations from him is intentionally difficult.


@Evans:
[02:27:06] ‹shockcannon› espithel is town
[02:27:10] ‹shockcannon› UNLESS you are GN
[02:27:20] ‹shockcannon› and know he's mafia
[02:27:29] ‹shockcannon› which is why killing espithel day 1 would've given us that info
[02:27:32] ‹shockcannon› but it doesn't really matter now
[02:27:37] ‹shockcannon› JCJ already dead
[02:27:43] ‹shockcannon› and ddevans is playing you MW
[02:27:50] ‹shockcannon› he used you to get JCJ killed
[02:28:01] ‹shockcannon› and now he's conveninelty hopping onto your suspicion of kaempfer
[02:28:10] ‹shockcannon› kaempf is town
[02:28:15] ‹shockcannon› dont let ddevans use you
[02:29:02] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› ddevans and consistently followed you up on whoever you voted for
[02:29:12] ‹shockcannon› and then when the switch to JCJ happened he got you to switch over also
[02:29:15] ‹shockcannon› coincidence?
[02:29:24] ‹shockcannon› *ddevans has

This is more solid than what Shock normally says. How do you respond to it, Evans?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 28, 2019, 01:47:12 am
If a role that targets players but does not return information normally (such as arctic squid, mind flayer, or green nymph) hits an immune player, will they be notified?

In other words, would one of these roles be able to discover a graboid for example or do they never receive feedback on their actions?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 28, 2019, 01:53:20 am
Can confirm that there is at least one Otyugh in the game. dd was targeted by them.

Gonna refrain on voting for now, but figured that it could be vaguely useful to give this info.

Definitely should have mentioned this earlier, but I didn't target anyone on N0.

This is strange. Not really the content but what you did here. You've been super silent all game and the first bit of info aside from vore you say is your role and target, and even your N0 action. Warden is really good late game and you role claim when there are only 2/19 dead. Can you explain your thought process doing this? Did you not think people would assume you were ward based on that info? Or do you think Ward is a bad role?

Couldn't really think of what else to add to the convo at the moment, besides giving opinions on scum reads and posting my own. Since scum reads can only get people so far without concrete evidence, figured that I should provide something to help make the scum reads more accurate.

(Also, figured people would guess Dragonfly or another info role)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 02:07:05 am
It's not conveniently hopping on kaempfer when we discussed lynching him last round and I wasn't opposed to it, and we discussed it earlier this round and I wasn't opposed to it. And I don't even see how doing everything I could to survive could be 'using' MW, since he voiced concern about why I was playing like that.

We should be ignoring shock until day 3. He provides nothing until he reveals what he thinks he knows.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 02:08:41 am
I still read shock as town for the time being, ftr. He's just trying to pressure me, I respect it.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 28, 2019, 05:10:29 am
If a role that targets players but does not return information normally (such as arctic squid, mind flayer, or green nymph) hits an immune player, will they be notified?

In other words, would one of these roles be able to discover a graboid for example or do they never receive feedback on their actions?
If an ability fails, the user gets notified even if it would normally not return information. On the contrary, if you are not notified with such role, then your ability didn't fail.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 28, 2019, 06:23:11 am
This (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289894/#msg1289894) and this (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/384/) are rather long, is there a nice little summary for them?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 28, 2019, 06:31:02 am
Add my breadcrumb vote on Espi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 28, 2019, 06:36:30 am
Moving my vote to insig
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 06:45:31 am
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
Espithel (1) - iancudorinmarian

----

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - iancudorinmarian

----

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (2) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96

Going with my gut feeling, since I'm not completely alone this time.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 28, 2019, 06:52:11 am
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96, dawn to dusk

Claiming Warden, after having established that Warden is a potentially scummy ability
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 28, 2019, 06:59:16 am
Devil's advocate here, but also bear in mind Insig's ward on dd did save his life. Sure, it prevented whatever action he attempted, but he gets to stay alive to help us sort out this mess. The question now is why did a FE/Oty try to kill dd? Townie making that play is odd. Likely came from mafia source. Let's also recall that ian's ability failed. It's possible that he's the FE/Oty, and if so, highly likely to be mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 07:00:28 am
[2019-05-27 23:53:14] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› whats your scum reads?
[2019-05-27 23:55:23] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If I had any clear reads I wouldn't have abstained from voting yesterday
[2019-05-27 23:58:40] ‹ddevans96› and nothing's happened to change your reads?
[2019-05-27 23:59:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Nothing has changed that has given me any clear directive on anything
[2019-05-28 00:00:22] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm bad at mafia :)
[2019-05-28 00:00:50] ‹ddevans96› fair and valid
[2019-05-28 00:01:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Being certain about anything other than yourself is a terrible thing though
[2019-05-28 00:01:09] ‹ddevans96› any hunches/gut instincts?
[2019-05-28 00:01:14] ‹ddevans96› anything in the thread catch your eye?
[2019-05-28 00:02:06] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Mainly just stuff about roles
[2019-05-28 00:02:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That being said, we all talk about how Warden is a very scummy role due to the patterns, then IW claims Warden right after
[2019-05-28 00:03:14] ‹ddevans96› something about IW this game really just has not sat right with me
[2019-05-28 00:03:23] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Also note that there was 1 Firefly N0 and 2 Fireflies N1
[2019-05-28 00:03:30] ‹ddevans96› idk what. it's mostly hunch, and some very circumstantial things that could very well mean nothing
[2019-05-28 00:04:02] ‹ddevans96› assuming everyone is being honest, yeah
[2019-05-28 00:04:11] ‹ddevans96› (I would lean towards that being the case)
[2019-05-28 00:04:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I've gone over a lot of scenarios in my head
[2019-05-28 00:04:38] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Some stuff could be a lie, but I don't see much of the inconsequential things
[2019-05-28 00:05:24] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm thinking of a couple roles that could be mafia though, but I don't want to reveal that yet
[2019-05-28 00:07:00] ‹ddevans96› fair
[2019-05-28 00:09:32] ‹ddevans96› what're your thoughts about the four people who have votes on them? (feud 1, shock 1, me 2, kaempfer 2)
[2019-05-28 00:11:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Don't kill Shock
[2019-05-28 00:11:49] ‹dawn_to_dusk› First and foremost
[2019-05-28 00:14:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If Root doesn't shift vote then it's shady on Root because we've discussed killing Shock on the next day phase anyway
[2019-05-28 00:14:37] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Feud's vote is to get him talking, I don't think there's too much to read into it
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 07:06:17 am
Dont think we should lynch insig yet. No one ever said to not role block N1.

Claiming Warden, after having established that Warden is a potentially scummy ability

So are wards just not supposed to use their abilities then? I dont think this necessarily means insig is scummy, more like sus of dd which a lot of people are.

I still find the whole thing very very strange but i would rather wait it out and see what else he does. Its not like lynching him is going to give us much information.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 28, 2019, 07:13:54 am
So are wards just not supposed to use their abilities then?

2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

They are not, no
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 07:15:40 am
Devil's advocate here, but also bear in mind Insig's ward on dd did save his life. Sure, it prevented whatever action he attempted, but he gets to stay alive to help us sort out this mess. The question now is why did a FE/Oty try to kill dd? Townie making that play is odd. Likely came from mafia source. Let's also recall that ian's ability failed. It's possible that he's the FE/Oty, and if so, highly likely to be mafia.

I can't disagree with this being a legitimate possibility. That being said, it's also legitimately possible that IW is mafia Warden, and a town Oty convinced that I'm a likelymafia and comfortable taking heat if they were wrong decided to pull the trigger. I don't think it would be an unusual play, just an aggressive one. Maybe a decent play in the early game, since I'm going to be a goldmine for information when I die. Maybe.

Regardless - the Warden softclaim isn't the whole picture, it's just some little things that just give me this uneasy feeling. It's the only thing I have that I would actually call a scumread right now.

Aside: what if shock is town Oty? Almost completely lines up - most of us see him as town, he did have a shift in how he seems to be viewing me seemingly over the night phase, he's a wildcard who can handle criticism. There's too many missing pieces to be comfortable thinking that, however - more of an amusing scenario.

...more like sus of dd which a lot of people are.

Feels like it's just you, shock, and Cal at present. Granted, three's a crowd, so still valid. Maybe also Espi and Mobian? Hard to be sure.



Also, for what it's worth - I'm all for using some abilities now, as Root suggests at the end of that post:

If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

Just put actual thought into what your plan is.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 07:17:34 am
2.) We also need to hold off on using roleblocking/kill roles. This refers to Warden, Toadfish, Otyugh, Mind Flayer, Arctic Squid, Ghost of the Past. If we use these roles on random targets, it's likely that an important role (Golden Nymph, or even GA/Psion/Dragonfly) will be blocked, or a civilian with an important role will be killed. We had civilians roleblocking civilians last game and it was a nightmare. Yes, it's possible that a mafia with psion or roleblocking could be blocked, but even more likely we block one of own civs. If you have good reason to be suspicious of someone, then yeah you can roleblock them (although I almost always disagree with renegade kill roles being used unless it's a last ditch effort to win), but otherwise I wouldn't use them.

almost everyone has been suspicious of dd all game. He was literally a vote away from being our first lynch. I bet my bottom dollar all that sketched insig out and he role blocked him.

HOWEVER, i still dont understand why he would just outs himself like that after he did role block.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 07:35:56 am
I don't really think 'almost everyone' is entirely accurate. Here were the votes on me last round:

Cal: Has voted on me both rounds
shock: Voted on me late last round, early this round, seems convinced I'm mafia now whereas he didn't midway through last day
MW: Had vote on me briefly last round, has continued voicing suspicion of me

Link: Started train with strong push, retracted to neutral later
Mobian: Voted on me late last round, some conversation, otherwise very little interaction with me
Espi: Put vote on me midway through train, later voted on jcj to help save me
IW: Voted immediately after Link, has pretty much done nothing related to me since

And that basically sums up all real suspicion on me. That's less than half the players - even if I'm misremembering and can't recall two, that's still exactly half excluding myself.

Also, I don't see 'all game' to be accurate either - I don't recall any suspicion voiced towards me before Link's vote for me.

I'm not even using this as a defense, if anything people should be more suspicious of me than they are, just feels like this detail is not being accurately portrayed.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 28, 2019, 07:39:49 am
The issue with using warden on suspicious people is it also blocks information roles used on that player.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 28, 2019, 08:29:10 am
i dont know what im doing

game rule 5
IW
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 08:36:13 am
game rule 5
IW

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 28, 2019, 10:06:31 am
I'm exhausted as fuck once again, but I'll try to address what I need to.

MW has not properly represented my read on kaempfer. Him being awkward in the first place is not that much of a problem and only drew slight suspicion from me. What made me want to lynch him was the sudden and complete change from his posts coming across as odd, to his posts coming across as completely normal. I think the most likely cause is that he adjusted his play based on input from his mafia team. Now, the feeling of his posts is completely subjective, so it's not a particularly strong case, but it's the one I'm most interested in pursuing right now.

Since dd didn't use an ability N0, it doesn't make sense for a mafia to Ward him since he probably doesn't have a strong role. It makes sense for town Insig to Ward dd since he was scumreading him, even though it was a bad play. Outing as mafia Warden makes even less sense as we can see by all the votes on him, while outing as town Warden is believable with the reasoning given, even though that was also a bad play as we can see by all the votes on him. There's guaranteed at least one mafia on that train. Move to kaempfer with me if you're town, dd.

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (2) - MasterWalks, Linkcat
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 28, 2019, 10:32:21 am
Quote
Move to kaempfer with me if you're town, dd.
Hold on I can play this game too

Move to [insert personal scumread here] with me if you're town, Link
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 28, 2019, 10:35:23 am
[20:28:41] ‹dawn_to_dusk› dd in response to that post: "Nah dude I'm mafia lol lemme stick on IW"
[20:29:24] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Like
[20:29:27] ‹dawn_to_dusk› What is he supposed to do
[20:29:35] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If he genuinely wants IW lynched
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 28, 2019, 10:51:44 am
I didn't expect this much activity this game; quite a bit to catch up to. Anyway:

I am not particularly happy with lynching Insig. I find it possible that there are two Warden, especially divided between the two factions. The only (?) other duplicate role we have good reason to believe exists is FFQ.


The only way I see an Otyugh using their ability on dd this early is if a Fate Egg got GN and investigated him N0 and then got Otyugh and targetted him N1, but dd said he caught a firefly N0 and no one called him out on this, so this is not possible.

You just said 'GN' and 'call him out' in one sentence. I get that it's unlikely but those two don't mix well.


[13:15:26] ‹Calindu› Unless another player is just insanely far ahead, I always retaliate with the robber in Catan lol

You are bad and you should feel bad. While I see the entertainment that can provide there are people who overdo this kind of thing. In Risk there are players who just go about killing off the first person that attacks them regardless of anything else. So, no one attacks them, they easily win a very unfun game. So, everyone needs to eliminate that players first before they can have a game. Everything just goes overboard when you have unwavering principles. Back to business:


[14:30:52] ‹shockcannon› i think there's a decent i get lynched day 2

I don't think too many people want that. I definitely don't.


I think we are still missing moehrpis justification for JcJ-lynch; he made a vague claim about jcj being too quiet, later mused taking it back but didn't.
This is true. Here's a question:Did moehrpi start it?Or, did Root, sensing an opportunity, continue it?

I didn't really want to address the first part of the question / Espi's question, but here's a minimalist answer: Obviously, I started it but without much thought. Maybe it went something like this: 'Who to put a (meaningless) vote on? JCJ was more active last game, aight.' without even considering other candidates after finding one or looking for an explanation which even was there. Not much to deliberate about from my point of view but I see why it's intriguing. But I certainly don't want to take the credit for that lynch.

Concerning the second, red, part: this is very true and I explain it with the voting dynamic at the end of the day. If it is not detailed enough, I could go back and look through the thread and chat to reconstruct the course of events but will refrain from doing so just now.

I was around when dd started to pile up votes for JCJ, iancu quickly followed. Most people including myself accepted the fact that we would most likely lynch town and therefore didn't really want to kill an active town, dd, while not happy about killing JCJ either but it's what quickly brewed up (with under a half hour left, so necessarily so) after votes #3 and #4 (four votes each). At this point it should be somewhat clear that removing my vote would ruin the latest development. Espi broke the tie before the deadline, after he said he would in chat so we would guarantee a lynch. I was happy not to have to force the decision, knowing that I would in case of a tie. shock added his vote for five votes each, repeat. MW steps in, I joke about removing my vote, Jonny dies.
I had the chance to change the outcome until the very end by going against the people around you who make a collective effort which is intimidating. In retrospect it might have been a mistake as I would have been sure that it's not mafia who lead the lynch. Call me gullible. But as stated earlier the whole thing was had to be a mob to let dd live. A bit more on this later.


The connections are between Cal and kae, and Cal and IW. Espi can discuss the former and I've talked about the latter in thread - I'm away from home on phone currently.

The strongest connection is between you and insig. Albeit one-sided.


(Also, figured people would guess Dragonfly or another info role)

If I am not mistaken FFQ and Warden were the only possibilities but you confirmed Warden yourself a bit later.


Devil's advocate here, but also bear in mind Insig's ward on dd did save his life. Sure, it prevented whatever action he attempted, but he gets to stay alive to help us sort out this mess. The question now is why did a FE/Oty try to kill dd? Townie making that play is odd. Likely came from mafia source. Let's also recall that ian's ability failed. It's possible that he's the FE/Oty, and if so, highly likely to be mafia.

Not sure what relevance I saw in this post maybe one of those:
shock joked about being Oty very early in this game. I don't think he is, though.
Town could make that play as FE, as someone else (Cal?) already said.


Devil's advocate here, but also bear in mind Insig's ward on dd did save his life. Sure, it prevented whatever action he attempted, but he gets to stay alive to help us sort out this mess. The question now is why did a FE/Oty try to kill dd? Townie making that play is odd. Likely came from mafia source. Let's also recall that ian's ability failed. It's possible that he's the FE/Oty, and if so, highly likely to be mafia.
I can't disagree with this being a legitimate possibility. That being said, it's also legitimately possible that IW is mafia Warden, and a town Oty convinced that I'm a likelymafia and comfortable taking heat if they were wrong decided to pull the trigger. I don't think it would be an unusual play, just an aggressive one. Maybe a decent play in the early game, since I'm going to be a goldmine for information when I die. Maybe.Regardless - the Warden softclaim isn't the whole picture, it's just some little things that just give me this uneasy feeling. It's the only thing I have that I would actually call a scumread right now.Aside: what if shock is town Oty? Almost completely lines up - most of us see him as town, he did have a shift in how he seems to be viewing me seemingly over the night phase, he's a wildcard who can handle criticism. There's too many missing pieces to be comfortable thinking that, however - more of an amusing scenario.

Insig's is not a softclaim anymore at this point.
Again, shock did joke about eating someone very early.
I'd like to hear more from shock but understand that I need to exercise patience..

...more like sus of dd which a lot of people are.
Feels like it's just you, shock, and Cal at present. Granted, three's a crowd, so still valid. Maybe also Espi and Mobian? Hard to be sure.

I am also suspicious of most people who are actively engaging in the discussion including you. But in your case I tell myself I need to sit back a bit.
The reason I am suspicious is because you avoided being lynched and pushed (with great ease) the lynch on town GA. I was in accord with that but seeing the outcome it's just not comfortable. But if you were town it's the only viable play you had left unless you have a shitty role, then the small chance to kill mafia might not be worth it. The last part is the reason I try to come to my senses and see reason. If you were mafia it's a good play but needs to rouse suspicion.

However, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch dd. He's a good way to get rid of Oty. Which is great if either he himself or Oty is mafia. It's pretty bad if both are town as we could have made better use of Oty later in the game. And good or bad if it was FE depending on what dd flips, but also mostly irrelevant now. Even if it does tell us a bit about another person's read.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 28, 2019, 10:53:51 am
EBWOP

coloured in my thoughts in the last quote.

Devil's advocate here, but also bear in mind Insig's ward on dd did save his life. Sure, it prevented whatever action he attempted, but he gets to stay alive to help us sort out this mess. The question now is why did a FE/Oty try to kill dd? Townie making that play is odd. Likely came from mafia source. Let's also recall that ian's ability failed. It's possible that he's the FE/Oty, and if so, highly likely to be mafia.
I can't disagree with this being a legitimate possibility. That being said, it's also legitimately possible that IW is mafia Warden, and a town Oty convinced that I'm a likelymafia and comfortable taking heat if they were wrong decided to pull the trigger. I don't think it would be an unusual play, just an aggressive one. Maybe a decent play in the early game, since I'm going to be a goldmine for information when I die. Maybe.Regardless - the Warden softclaim isn't the whole picture, it's just some little things that just give me this uneasy feeling. It's the only thing I have that I would actually call a scumread right now.Aside: what if shock is town Oty? Almost completely lines up - most of us see him as town, he did have a shift in how he seems to be viewing me seemingly over the night phase, he's a wildcard who can handle criticism. There's too many missing pieces to be comfortable thinking that, however - more of an amusing scenario.

Insig's is not a softclaim anymore at this point.
Again, shock did joke about eating someone very early.
I'd like to hear more from shock but understand that I need to exercise patience..

...more like sus of dd which a lot of people are.
Feels like it's just you, shock, and Cal at present. Granted, three's a crowd, so still valid. Maybe also Espi and Mobian? Hard to be sure.

I am also suspicious of most people who are actively engaging in the discussion including you. But in your case I tell myself I need to sit back a bit.
The reason I am suspicious is because you avoided being lynched and pushed (with great ease) the lynch on town GA. I was in accord with that but seeing the outcome it's just not comfortable. But if you were town it's the only viable play you had left unless you have a shitty role, then the small chance to kill mafia might not be worth it. The last part is the reason I try to come to my senses and see reason. If you were mafia it's a good play but needs to rouse suspicion.

However, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch dd. He's a good way to get rid of Oty. Which is great if either he himself or Oty is mafia. It's pretty bad if both are town as we could have made better use of Oty later in the game. And good or bad if it was FE depending on what dd flips, but also mostly irrelevant now. Even if it does tell us a bit about another person's read.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 28, 2019, 11:03:08 am
I'm exhausted as fuck once again, but I'll try to address what I need to.

MW has not properly represented my read on kaempfer. Him being awkward in the first place is not that much of a problem and only drew slight suspicion from me. What made me want to lynch him was the sudden and complete change from his posts coming across as odd, to his posts coming across as completely normal. I think the most likely cause is that he adjusted his play based on input from his mafia team. Now, the feeling of his posts is completely subjective, so it's not a particularly strong case, but it's the one I'm most interested in pursuing right now.

Since dd didn't use an ability N0, it doesn't make sense for a mafia to Ward him since he probably doesn't have a strong role. It makes sense for town Insig to Ward dd since he was scumreading him, even though it was a bad play. Outing as mafia Warden makes even less sense as we can see by all the votes on him, while outing as town Warden is believable with the reasoning given, even though that was also a bad play as we can see by all the votes on him. There's guaranteed at least one mafia on that train. Move to kaempfer with me if you're town, dd.

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (2) - MasterWalks, Linkcat
ddevans96 (2) - Calindu, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud

Alright now its pointless to hide it in case 4 people somehow missed that pms between mafia are allowed. I assume one of them knew anyway and sent a message day 1, early enough for me to realize my faulty strategy way sooner assuming I was mafia (even if I missed the memo about pms). This is my first game of mafia here so noone would have noticed it as unusual if I held back and waited for responses from mafia before posting anything major. As such I think the one thing that makes you suspicious of me is actually my best defense here. I can go into even more detail about this shallow point if you request it.
But my waking up call was not a member of mafia pming me "wth are you doing man", it was me spending a day asking "why does almost noone agree with me?".
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 28, 2019, 01:23:24 pm
IW/kae/Cal have had some interesting interaction history this game, as Espi and I have previously noted

What interaction history? The only interaction I had with kae is both of us defending Espi day 1.
The only interaction I had with IW is me calling him out on possibly lying.

Everything in Cal's post makes sense, up to the point where he voted for me - basically everything there points to more of a scumread on IW than on me

That's the thing, I am not sure exactly about the interaction between you two, I found some possible scenarios, but they all are strange:

1. IW mafia, dd mafia: Like I said, forced interaction that looks scripted by the mafia team. Though they also appear to scumread and vote on each other, so I don't actually believe that's the case.
2. IW town, dd unknown: I don't know why IW would warden dd in this case, since dd said he caught a firefly, so I don't think there's anything to gain by blocking the ability. But if IW is town, then there's no reason to lie, so there was an Otyugh actually targeting dd, which is hard to believe as well.
3. IW mafia, dd town: Again, no reason to warden dd, even more of a strange play. But at the same time, IW could lie about the whole thing happening, for unknown reasons.

So as you can see, unless I am missing something, all the possible cases are making little sense. I believe IW is town, since him lying this randomly or the mafia team targeting each other this early makes even less sense.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 28, 2019, 04:11:23 pm
I'm fairly certain dd and IW are both town. Still on the fence about kaempf, though.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 05:17:14 pm
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (3) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud

There is no reason we should lynch Insig.

If he is town, then obv dont lynch.
If he is mafia, he's going to slip up eventually.

ddevan is getting more and more sus everyday. I think he has a hand in orchestrating votes to lynch town.
Also, i am not too sure kae is mafia anymore. If he is, it will probably be more obvious when he starts just actually talking instead of constantly having to defend.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 28, 2019, 05:20:18 pm
immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - iancudorinmarian, ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud

what else am i supposed to do besides let myself die
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 05:23:51 pm
[10:22:21] ‹iancudorinmarian› Someone move my vote to Mobian

immortal feud (1) - Espithel
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud
Mobian (1) - iancudorinmarian
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 28, 2019, 05:26:01 pm
shockcannon (1) - RootRanger
kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud
Mobian (1) - Iancudorinmarian
iancudorinmarian (1) - Espithel

Stop switching your votes all over the place you spazz


Will post chatlog later.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 28, 2019, 05:37:42 pm
I think the suspicion on ddevans is unwarranted, and IW is blind roleblocking, so this is an easy choice for me.

kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (1) - Iancudorinmarian
iancudorinmarian (1) - Espithel
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 05:56:25 pm
I think the suspicion on ddevans is unwarranted, and IW is blind roleblocking, so this is an easy choice for me.

kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (1) - Iancudorinmarian
iancudorinmarian (1) - Espithel

Why do people keep saying this?

[10:53:34] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› dd seemed to be attempting to orchestrate votes to get rid of important town. I wanted to prevent him from doing too much

He was sus of dd, just like a ton of other people. You said it yourself (well more quoted it) If you are sus of someone, then yes roleblock them. Which is exactly what he did.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 28, 2019, 06:03:08 pm
Wow we really need to get the blab to be

SILENT

so we can post that chatlog, huh
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 06:07:06 pm
[06:03:24] ‹shockcannon› the real question
[06:03:33] ‹shockcannon› of the people who have revealed things that happened during night phases
[06:03:36] ‹shockcannon› how many were lying?
[06:04:11] ‹shockcannon› because if none were lying than I know quite a bit
[06:04:23] ‹shockcannon› but if several were lying than that info is pretty much useless
[06:04:50] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I can't imagine all of it being true, but I don't think many people have lied so far
[06:05:07] ‹shockcannon› I'm like 90% certain it's all true
[06:05:10] ‹shockcannon› except ian
[06:05:29] ‹shockcannon› I will admit there's like a 5% chance ian is actually town
[06:05:37] ‹shockcannon› and my read is super off
[06:05:46] ‹shockcannon› but if he is town than everything he said so far would probably be true
[06:05:51] ‹shockcannon› which would give me a whole lot of new info about mafia
[06:06:03] ‹shockcannon› but as of now, I'm pretty sure he's lied a lot
[06:06:25] ‹shockcannon› or he's getting at teammate warden to block him
[06:10:49] ‹shockcannon› ASSUMING you told the truth there might be 3 wardens
[06:10:57] ‹shockcannon› that would be something
[06:14:02] ‹immortal_feud› holy textwall shock
[06:14:54] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Yo immortal
[06:14:56] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› League?
[06:15:02] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Btw don’t vote for insig
[06:15:05] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› He’s not maf
[06:16:04] ‹immortal_feud› nah sorry was just popping in before bed
[06:16:40] ‹Calindu› People talking about mafia as guests is annoying, I don't know who is who since I haven't really frequented the chat in the past year or so
[06:17:05] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› i belive vamp is shock
[06:17:13] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Sorry
[06:17:18] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› This is calindu
[06:17:31] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I think so to, but he is not the only one doing it
[06:17:53] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› (chrysaora and deathstalker arent playing)
[06:18:12] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› )(and arent chattign about current maf)
[06:19:17] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I see
[06:24:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Calindu in Forum Games. Eat this post. Think better.
[06:40:51] ‹ARTHANASIOS›
(6d10) 10 + 9 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 4 = 34 ...
[07:15:57] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-38c99› this is a very cool game
[07:16:03] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Yes
[07:16:23] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-38c99› k
[07:16:35] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-38c99› :gravity best element
[07:16:46] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Singularity is the best card
[08:42:41] ‹DoubleCapitals› I am purely here on business.
[08:43:01] ‹DoubleCapitals› The people who summoned me here, please DM me here or Discord. That is all.
[08:44:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Polls for Mafia 71 from iancudorinmarian in Off-Topic Discussions. Sharp minds, sharp posts.
[09:12:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Mobian in Forum Games. I'd walk a mile for this post.
[09:20:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Polls for Mafia 71 from Mobian in Off-Topic Discussions. This post tastes good.
[09:32:02] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Espithel
[09:32:11] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Move your vote to ddevans
[10:00:09] ‹MasterWalks› If insig gets lynched, I full heartedly believe mafia is choosing who we lynch
[10:01:53] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I believe so
[10:02:08] ‹Calindu› But there's a common thing in both lynches
[10:03:16] ‹Espithel› A common thing in both lynches?
[10:03:49] ‹Calindu› Who orchestrated or orchestrates it
[10:03:54] ‹Calindu› There's 2 people
[10:05:02] ‹PrivatePotato› The latest private post is Re: Tournament Organizer and PvP Event Organi... from TheonlyrealBeef in Voting 7 hours ago. Clear your mind.
[10:05:08] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Calindu› have you seen the light?
[10:05:16] ‹shockcannon› only took you a week to catch on
[10:05:24] ‹shockcannon› it's been obvious since day 1
[10:05:53] ‹Calindu› It was suspicious since JCJ died, but there's no way to be sure
[10:06:01] ‹shockcannon› i knew before JCJ died
[10:06:31] ‹shockcannon› ians vote on dawn was mistake #1 from mafia
[10:06:44] ‹shockcannon› the real question
[10:06:48] ‹shockcannon› who are the other 2 mafia?
[10:06:53] ‹shockcannon› i'm pretty certain on the 3rd
[10:06:57] ‹shockcannon› but I can't find the 4th yet
[10:07:23] ‹Calindu› Nah, I think Mobian just boomed them with that 5th vote and they had to scramble
[10:07:39] ‹MasterWalks› I think you are looking to far into N0 votes when info was more limited
[10:07:45] ‹MasterWalks› or day 1
[10:08:25] ‹shockcannon› honestly
[10:08:33] ‹shockcannon› I may make a big push right now to get ian lynched today
[10:08:47] ‹iancudorinmarian› Shock still thinking I'm mafia
[10:09:16] ‹Calindu› ‹@iancudorinmarian› The way I see it, if dd is mafia, you are too
[10:09:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› Well, suspecting me is fine, but being so sure of it when he knows nothing is silly
[10:09:47] ‹shockcannon› nah
[10:09:50] ‹shockcannon› ian is 100% maf
[10:09:55] ‹shockcannon› dd is like 95% maf
[10:10:02] ‹shockcannon› honestly
[10:10:05] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@Calindu› actually, it's common for mafia to try to team up with a civvy
[10:10:10] ‹shockcannon› i might as well just share everything else now
[10:10:20] ‹shockcannon› i already revealed two of the maf
[10:10:24] ‹iancudorinmarian› And save themselves one day of lynch with that
[10:10:30] ‹MasterWalks› dd is looking more and more sus everyday. He is too experienced to waste a vote on insig over some bad role claim
[10:10:59] ‹Espithel› You really need to stop using "he's experienced" as an excuse for or against arguments, walks
[10:11:10] ‹Espithel› How experienced he is has no bearing on how right he is
[10:11:13] ‹shockcannon› it appears the other townies are finally catching up
[10:11:20] ‹shockcannon› I might actually be able to post info now
[10:11:26] ‹shockcannon› and actually have people join
[10:11:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› Well, I guess I am fine with shocks silly claims, that makes me less of a priority NK target
[10:11:32] ‹shockcannon› here's the question
[10:11:48] ‹shockcannon› how much do we care about insignificant weeaboo surviving this day phase?
[10:11:55] ‹MasterWalks› It does on how sus he is. He should know better than that. If some first timer like moe or kaempf made that vote, it would not be sus at all
[10:12:04] ‹MasterWalks› I care.
[10:12:17] ‹Calindu› Idk, the way the votes were gathered in day 1 was the suspect thing
[10:12:20] ‹shockcannon› switch your vote to ddevnas then
[10:12:21] ‹MasterWalks› If hes not mafia, well then dont vote him. If he is, he is going to slip up
[10:12:21] ‹iancudorinmarian› And if I get lyched at some point, you will see how bad shock is at mafia
[10:12:21] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 1 + 6 + 4 + 6 + 2 = 19 ...
[10:12:25] ‹Espithel› Eh.
[10:12:33] ‹Espithel› I think weeb's a bit scummy, honestly.
[10:12:55] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› kaempf isn't maf
[10:12:56] ‹Espithel› The question is if I think weeb is more scummy than evans, which...
[10:12:57] ‹MasterWalks› Yea and your mafia so it makes sense you want us to lynch him
[10:13:02] ‹Calindu› If Mobian didn't vote, ian and dd could easily make up for a 3 vote difference(ian's vote was on dd), Mobian's vote kind of made them scramble to get some more votes
[10:13:19] ‹Calindu› ‹@Espithel› Why would IW lie for no reason, that's the question
[10:13:35] ‹Espithel› I don't think he's lying.
[10:13:35] ‹MasterWalks› I dont think he is lying
[10:13:39] ‹MasterWalks› jinx
[10:13:49] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› btw
[10:13:51] ‹shockcannon› next day phase
[10:13:52] ‹Espithel› ninja'd :^)
[10:13:54] ‹shockcannon› please hold your vote
[10:14:02] ‹shockcannon› people tend to just jump on who you're voting
[10:14:12] ‹shockcannon› I wanna see what mafia does when townies hold their vote
[10:14:52] ‹shockcannon› force others to vote first without knowing if anyone will support their accusations
[10:14:59] ‹MasterWalks› lol not hey dont
[10:15:01] ‹MasterWalks› they*
[10:15:08] ‹MasterWalks› if they did, espi wouldnt be talking rn
[10:15:21] ‹Calindu› That's the thing, if IW didn't lie, then that either means mafia decided to guard dd when he didn't use any ability N0, or he's town
[10:15:42] ‹Espithel› There is the third possibility.
[10:15:45] ‹iancudorinmarian› Tbh if my role wasnt useful I would get myself lynched just to prove shock has no idea what s going on
[10:15:49] ‹Espithel› Which is "weeb's a bit stupid"
[10:15:58] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Not gonna deny that one
[10:16:10] ‹shockcannon› ‹@iancudorinmarian› took you long enough to defend yourself
[10:16:17] ‹Espithel› The way I see it, this is a lynch on Weeb being stupid, yeah?
[10:16:25] ‹Calindu› ‹@Espithel› I don't know exactly how the mafia team works, since I have actually never been mafia on this forum, but I believe they would have a plan
[10:16:26] ‹shockcannon› abandoning your team's "ignore shock" strategy now huh?
[10:16:50] ‹iancudorinmarian› What team?
[10:17:13] ‹shockcannon› is dawn your mafia teammatee?
[10:17:27] ‹Espithel› ‹@Calindu› I've been mafia a few times. How the mafia team works is wildly different from game to game.
[10:17:31] ‹Espithel› Sometimes, they're highly ordered.
[10:17:35] ‹Espithel› Sometimes, they're really disparate.
[10:17:41] ‹iancudorinmarian› My only teammate is my face
[10:17:54] • Espithel punches ian's face
[10:17:58] ‹Espithel› No
[10:18:00] ‹Espithel› You stand alone
[10:18:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. Oh, what a read!
[10:18:04] ‹Espithel› >:(
[10:18:09] • Espithel coughs.
[10:18:13] ‹iancudorinmarian› D:
[10:18:16] ‹shockcannon› only took about a 5 days to get ian to crack and act like himself
[10:18:20] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@iancudorinmarian› oull your vote off insig
[10:18:31] ‹MasterWalks› pull*
[10:18:40] ‹shockcannon› did you break character or did you guys decide to switch up your strategy?
[10:18:41] ‹Espithel› The way I see it, the reason people want to lynch Weeb is analogous to the reason people want to lynch Shock.
[10:19:13] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@Espithel› yes
[10:19:17] ‹Calindu› ‹@Espithel› I still believe they would at least try to coordinate abilities
[10:20:23] ‹shockcannon› if ian ever gets pressured by a potential lynch
[10:20:37] ‹shockcannon› he's going to claim GN that's been blocked every night
[10:20:43] ‹shockcannon› calling it now
[10:21:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› lul
[10:21:51] ‹MasterWalks› dd is going to give us so much more info than insig
[10:21:58] ‹MasterWalks› if we lynch him
[10:22:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from InsignificantWeeaboo in Forum Games. Be sure to give them a raise!
[10:22:11] ‹iancudorinmarian› Might as well stick to my original scum read
[10:22:14] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Double D  :sillyspin:  :awesome:
[10:22:19] ‹Espithel› ‹@Calindu› Even that depends. If the mafia team's more inactive, or if they're more disparate (some mafia teams prefer to act as independently of each other as possible to avoid looking cohesive), or if they have shitty skills, they might not coordinate
[10:22:21] ‹iancudorinmarian› Someone move my vote to Mobian
[10:22:46] ‹MasterWalks› omg i dont want to hear anymore of mobinas aggressive defending
[10:23:37] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@Espithel› mafia team of Manuel
[10:23:40] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Shock
[10:23:42] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Dm sis
[10:24:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. It's cold and dark in here ;_;
[10:24:02] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Ahhhhhh
[10:24:02] ‹Espithel› Dm was actually a really competant player
[10:24:15] ‹Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Stop switching your votes every 20 seconds aaaa
[10:24:17] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› That’s why it’s all the more funny
[10:24:32] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› they’ll all have conflicting opinions
[10:24:39] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› And will throw each other under the bus
[10:24:57] ‹Espithel› Like they should. :^)
[10:25:22] ‹iancudorinmarian› I need to keep switching votes to claim GN when I am about to get lynced
[10:25:32] ‹iancudorinmarian› *lynched
[10:25:45] ‹Espithel› okay
[10:26:15] ‹shockcannon› don't waver on the ddevans vote
[10:26:26] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Watch mafia kill GN next night phase
[10:26:32] ‹shockcannon› I wanna see what ddevans tries when he's panicking
[10:26:56] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› @Calindu @InsignificantWeeaboo
[10:27:06] ‹shockcannon› don't move your vote and don't respond to ddevans
[10:27:18] ‹shockcannon› let's see what happens if we straight up ignore him when he starts panicking
[10:27:35] ‹Espithel› I mean. He didn't look like he was panicking last night phase.
[10:27:52] ‹MasterWalks› hes going to cherry pick everyone's comments about him and dissect them until they are irrelevant like he has been doing.
[10:27:53] ‹shockcannon› he was posting non-stop and getting anyone he could to move to JCJ
[10:27:55] ‹shockcannon› he was panicking
[10:28:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Eat this post.
[10:28:47] ‹shockcannon› ‹@iancudorinmarian› PM ddevans that his time is up
[10:29:00] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› My time is now
[10:29:09] ‹iancudorinmarian› I cant PM you silly
[10:29:17] ‹shockcannon› you can if you're maf
[10:29:29] • Espithel frantically checks who
[10:29:33] ‹Espithel› (joke)
[10:29:43] ‹shockcannon› also i'm fairly certain that if everyone role claimed we could find 3 mafia instantly
[10:30:00] ‹MasterWalks› who is less useful then i thought it would be.
[10:30:03] ‹shockcannon› not that anyone would go along with that but just curious
[10:30:21] ‹MasterWalks› like it does pretty much nothing other than tell you how many guests report stuff to mods
[10:30:28] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@shockcannon› I thoguht you knew 3
[10:30:32] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› what a let down
[10:30:43] ‹shockcannon› i do know 3
[10:31:00] ‹shockcannon› but i could offer the other town noobs hard evidence on those 3
[10:31:13] ‹iancudorinmarian› If I am among those 3 you know nothing
[10:31:17] ‹MasterWalks› dont talk about it, be about it
[10:31:55] ‹iancudorinmarian› Shock knows nothing and he is just trying to see if mafia panic
[10:32:11] ‹MasterWalks› ^
[10:32:52] ‹iancudorinmarian› The only way shock knows 3 mafia is if he is mafia himself
[10:33:05] ‹iancudorinmarian› Which honestly wouldnt surprise me
[10:33:06] ‹MasterWalks› and he is the 4th... thats the ultimate bus
[10:33:52] ‹iancudorinmarian› We cant win as long as shock is alive
[10:34:11] ‹MasterWalks› we have to wait until after day 3
[10:34:12] ‹iancudorinmarian› Him being mafia or town
[10:34:47] ‹iancudorinmarian› Just like Root said, he's just noise and actually making ot harder to find the real mafia
[10:35:28] ‹Calindu› I didn't base my vote on dd on anything shock said
[10:35:40] ‹MasterWalks› I mean, not really. Hes one of the easiest people to ignore. He doesnt post to the thread all that much and his chat color is easy on the eyes so you can kinda just skim through it
[10:36:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Polls for Mafia 71 from RootRanger in Off-Topic Discussions. It feels like I'm stuck in a loop...
[10:36:40] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Yeet
[10:36:50] ‹iancudorinmarian› Tbh I dont know dd's alignment. Though I do believe all those orchestrated votes by him are suspicious
[10:37:15] ‹iancudorinmarian› So I guess I will place him in the slightly scummy category
[10:37:19] ‹shockcannon› bussing your teammate now are you ian?
[10:37:23] ‹shockcannon› a little late for that
[10:37:43] ‹iancudorinmarian› If I was, I would vote for him
[10:37:59] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› You have no idea who the mafia is if you believe espi is town.
[10:38:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from RootRanger in Forum Games. When it absolutely, positively, has to be read overnight.
[10:38:03] ‹shockcannon› but straightin bussing like that would be too obvious
[10:38:07] ‹shockcannon› you're covering your bases
[10:38:19] ‹DoubleCapitals› My business here is done for now
[10:38:21] ‹DoubleCapitals› Goodbye
[10:38:45] ‹iancudorinmarian› You are entitled to your opinion
[10:38:47] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Business
[10:38:49] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Bye
[10:39:18] ‹DoubleCapitals› yeah I spelled that wrong, sue me
[10:39:40] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Oh
[10:39:44] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I didn’t even see the spelling lol
[10:39:56] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I was gonna say something else but pressed enter after business accidentally
[10:40:16] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› (Wait the spelling is right tho??)
[10:40:23] ‹iancudorinmarian› Hm, Root feels...awkward
[10:40:25] ‹shockcannon› yeah the spelling is right
[10:40:52] ‹shockcannon› root is the worst mafia player i've ever encountered
[10:40:52] ‹MasterWalks› wtf root, that literally makes no sense
[10:41:00] ‹shockcannon› which is why I now know for sure insig is town
[10:41:14] ‹shockcannon› root actually reads everybody wrong
[10:41:19] ‹shockcannon› insig is now confirmed town
[10:41:36] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› Last game when he was ash, i straight up told him you are probably town but you are not working for town. That convinced him to lynch you.
[10:41:36] ‹iancudorinmarian› Nobody thought insig was mafia
[10:41:49] ‹Calindu› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› Why did you actually guard dd, btw?
[10:41:53] ‹MasterWalks› THEN WHY ARE THEY LYNCHING TOWN?
[10:42:01] ‹shockcannon› ‹@iancudorinmarian› you literally had your vote on insig 5 minutes ago
[10:42:01] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› There’s only two conf town. Jcj and Oa.
[10:42:09] ‹Calindu› ‹@iancudorinmarian› I thought for a while, before I saw dd and IW bussing eachother
[10:42:22] ‹iancudorinmarian› We were lynching him because he was working against town by random blocking
[10:42:35] ‹MasterWalks› i dont think its random at all
[10:42:53] ‹Calindu› If he explains it, there's an explanation that makes sense
[10:43:02] ‹iancudorinmarian› Was dd really considered all that scummy D1?
[10:43:06] ‹Calindu› I want to see if it's that or something else
[10:43:24] ‹Calindu› ‹@iancudorinmarian› He needed to scramble votes out of thin air to not get lynched
[10:43:50] ‹iancudorinmarian› Fair
[10:43:54] ‹Espithel› Nope, that's consistent with what Root thinks
[10:44:06] ‹Espithel› Like I said, a Weeb lynch is the same logic as a Shock lynch
[10:44:13] ‹Espithel› And Root really wants to fucking lynch Shock
[10:44:50] ‹MasterWalks› Root cares more about having a quiet town than killing mafia
[10:44:51] ‹Calindu› I just want to hear IW explain guarding dd
[10:45:38] ‹MasterWalks› root has N.Korea logic. If you act differently then you must be dissident
[10:45:51] ‹Espithel› Root is "the most experienced" of all of us
[10:46:01] ‹Espithel› :^)
[10:46:03] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Btw can mafia be GN
[10:46:10] ‹Calindu› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Nope
[10:46:12] ‹MasterWalks› Dont talk to me about experience
[10:46:14] ‹iancudorinmarian› No
[10:46:25] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› cool makes sense
[10:46:37] ‹Espithel› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Only via fate egg/endow/scavenge
[10:46:39] ‹iancudorinmarian› Only one GN and it's confirmed tow
[10:46:45] ‹iancudorinmarian› Town
[10:47:15] ‹MasterWalks› GN is useless for Mafia
[10:47:27] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Well
[10:47:33] ‹shockcannon› mobian, get your vote on ddevans
[10:47:39] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› It restricts from town having a GN lel
[10:48:12] ‹shockcannon› or if you wanna channel your rage at ian
[10:48:18] ‹shockcannon› i'm down to move all our votes to ian
[10:49:10] ‹ARTHANASIOS›
(6d10) 6 + 10 + 5 + 9 + 2 + 3 = 35 ...
[10:49:13] ‹iancudorinmarian› Shock acting like town leader
[10:49:35] ‹MasterWalks› Better than dd tbh
[10:49:38] ‹shockcannon› ian acting like outed mafia
[10:50:04] ‹Espithel› Anyone who disagrees with THE LORD is scum
[10:50:07] ‹shockcannon› if you were town you would've responded to me like you're responding now 5 days ago
[10:50:13] ‹iancudorinmarian› War
[10:50:18] ‹iancudorinmarian› Wat
[10:50:22] ‹MasterWalks› War wen
[10:50:27] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 8 + 6 + 4 + 5 + 7 = 30 ...
[10:50:36] ‹shockcannon› but you and your maf buddies chose to play the "ignore shock" strategy
[10:50:38] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› WOARRRRR
[10:50:39] ‹shockcannon› and then it failed
[10:50:42] ‹shockcannon› and now you're panicking
[10:50:48] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› explain you targeting dd
[10:50:58] ‹iancudorinmarian› If you were town you wouldnt try to lynch me for no reason
[10:51:13] ‹Espithel› Hang on
[10:51:18] ‹Espithel› That's *the most towny thing* you can do
[10:51:21] ‹Espithel› Be shit at the game
[10:51:27] ‹shockcannon› that's probably the worst excuse i've ever heard
[10:51:28] ‹Espithel› Like I'm not joking ian
[10:51:54] ‹shockcannon› remember how ian was such a good townie last game?
[10:52:08] ‹shockcannon› he would never share roles or encourage sharing roles
[10:52:16] ‹iancudorinmarian› And how is it different this game?
[10:52:20] ‹shockcannon› he only voted once per day and was logical and systematic
[10:52:26] ‹shockcannon› but then this game
[10:52:35] ‹shockcannon› he announces day 1 that his role was blocked
[10:52:41] ‹shockcannon› and almost even told us who he targeted
[10:52:49] ‹shockcannon› then he switches votes randomly
[10:53:05] ‹shockcannon› doesn't defend himself when I call him out until other townies actually start getting suspicious of him
[10:53:11] ‹MasterWalks› I switch votes randomly...
[10:53:28] ‹shockcannon› but is ian one to do that?
[10:53:34] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› dd seemed to be attempting to orchestrate votes to get rid of important town. I wanted to prevent him from doing too much
[10:53:46] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Calindu› Hes one of us
[10:53:53] ‹shockcannon› i made ian ragequit
[10:54:00] ‹shockcannon› gg mafia
[10:54:13] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› ?
[10:54:33] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Calindu› Insigs reasoning to targeting dd is what we think of dd too
[10:54:51] ‹Calindu› No, that's not the reason that makes the most sense
[10:54:59] ‹iancudorinmarian› Tbh the only reason I am even talking to you is I have nothing better to do
[10:55:13] ‹Espithel› ‹@iancudorinmarian› Talk to me instead. We'll make it productive.
[10:55:14] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› sleep
[10:55:18] ‹Espithel› Hey. Do you have minecraft?
[10:55:19] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Sleep is always better than anything
[10:55:23] ‹Espithel› I can introduce you to my server. owo
[10:55:29] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dont
[10:55:45] ‹Calindu› Remember that dd caught a firefly N0, that's important
[10:56:01] ‹iancudorinmarian› Anyway, might as well finish with shock
[10:56:17] ‹iancudorinmarian› Re: random voting
[10:56:26] ‹iancudorinmarian› Read my N0 strategy
[10:56:42] ‹iancudorinmarian› And I always gave reasons for my votes
[10:57:15] ‹shockcannon› except they offer no cover for golden nymph
[10:57:27] ‹shockcannon› because you told everyone you were blocked 2 nights in a row
[10:57:34] ‹iancudorinmarian› Re:shared roles, I never shared any role
[10:57:36] ‹MasterWalks› If dd caught a firefly N0 that probably means he has roleblocking or kill role
[10:58:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. ...but it's only a theory.
[10:58:28] ‹iancudorinmarian› I thought we agreed to say if we catch fireflies or we get blocked
[10:58:52] ‹iancudorinmarian› I could well be GN btw
[10:59:13] ‹MasterWalks› I think we should stop reporting firefly cathces
[10:59:54] ‹shockcannon› I think we have several dupilcate roles this game
[11:00:05] ‹shockcannon› which means several roles are just completely missing from the game as well
[11:00:08] ‹iancudorinmarian› Check EoR description
[11:00:27] ‹MasterWalks› Can FFQ have multiple fireflys out at a time?
[11:00:28] ‹Calindu› It's clear there is at least a duplicate role
[11:00:34] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› Yes
[11:00:35] ‹iancudorinmarian› And you will see what I mean
[11:00:46] ‹shockcannon› if everyone is telling the truth
[11:00:50] ‹shockcannon› there are at least 2 FFQ
[11:00:59] ‹shockcannon› dawn and insig both claimed warden
[11:01:02] ‹shockcannon› so that's 2 wardens
[11:01:13] ‹MasterWalks› when did dawn claim ward?
[11:01:17] ‹iancudorinmarian› Why 2 wardens?
[11:01:43] ‹iancudorinmarian› I dont remember dawn claiming warden
[11:02:09] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I don't remember dawn claiming warden either
[11:02:22] ‹Calindu› IW hard claimed it
[11:02:30] ‹shockcannon› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-game...
[11:02:37] ‹shockcannon› did everyone miss that?
[11:02:43] ‹MasterWalks› lol
[11:02:43] ‹shockcannon› because that's pretty big info
[11:02:51] ‹MasterWalks› thats not about himself, hes talking about insig
[11:02:53] ‹shockcannon› oh
[11:02:58] ‹shockcannon› lol
[11:03:05] ‹shockcannon› i thought he talked about being warden in chat also though
[11:03:05] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› nub
[11:03:11] ‹shockcannon› which is why i thought he was refering to himself
[11:03:20] ‹shockcannon› let me check chatlogs because I swear he talked about it himself
[11:03:48] ‹Mobian› He was talking about it's usage, but never roleclaimed
[11:03:57] ‹Espithel› Can we be, er
[11:04:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Good to the last word.
[11:04:04] ‹Espithel› SILENT
[11:04:08] ‹Espithel› For just a moment?
[11:04:16] ‹Espithel› We need to get this chatlog through.
[11:04:26] ‹Mobian› Nyet
[11:04:38] ‹Espithel› Oh fuck
[11:04:39] ‹Espithel› I refreshed
[11:04:41] ‹Espithel› eeer
[11:04:43] ‹MasterWalks› but we are not done yet
[11:04:49] ‹iancudorinmarian› A moment of silence for this chatlog
[11:04:57] ‹Mobian› F
[11:04:57] ‹Espithel› Yeah but you're blindsiding Root with knowledge he doesn't have!
[11:05:02] ‹MasterWalks› I can post when its done. Ive been here the whole time
[11:05:15] ‹Espithel› Do it in a two-parter now while we have this lull
[11:05:19] ‹Espithel› cheers
[11:05:23] ‹shockcannon› dawn definitely mentioned being warden
[11:05:28] ‹shockcannon› and that he didn't use it himself
[11:05:32] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› when??
[11:05:33] ‹iancudorinmarian› Lies
[11:05:45] ‹Mobian› Pretty sure you're crazy, shock
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 06:10:08 pm
To sum it up; Mostly talks on how dd may ore may not be orchestrating votes, talks on how this lynch on insig is a waste and its probably an orchestrated vote. Thats pretty much it. Some small talks on how roles work and some pressure from shock onto ian.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 06:13:17 pm
Also, for clarification, Guest MinorPhoenix is shockcannon. Chrysaora is W3 who is not participating in mafia
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 07:03:33 pm
[10:53:34] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› dd seemed to be attempting to orchestrate votes to get rid of important town. I wanted to prevent him from doing too much

Here are my 'orchestrations':
Espi: Didn't actually get lynched, still alive
jcj: Lynched to save self, because...Link 'orchestrated' a vote on me
IW: Isn't actually going to get lynched, because...Link is 'orchestrating' a vote on kaempfer

I don't have enough question marks to indicate what I think of these assertions. If anyone is 'orchestrating' anything, it would clearly be Link, not me. If I'm 'orchestrating' votes as mafia, I'm doing a very bad job of it compared to what I'm capable of.

Would you disagree that it's fair to say that you might just be tunneling again? It feels like you keeps bending the truth where I'm concerned.

What interaction history? The only interaction I had with kae is both of us defending Espi day 1.

Correct.

Quote
The only interaction I had with IW is me calling him out on possibly lying.

You two followed very comparable arcs through the first day. For that reason, I doubt you are both mafia. You'd be stepping on each other's toes too much. Same with you and kae (here I disagree with Espi, if I'm not mistaken). And I already think you're town, so kae and IW are the best lynch targets, from my perspective.

Quote
That's the thing, I am not sure exactly about the interaction between you two, I found some possible scenarios, but they all are strange:
...
3. IW mafia, dd town: Again, no reason to warden dd, even more of a strange play. But at the same time, IW could lie about the whole thing happening, for unknown reasons.

Plenty of reason to Warden me as mafia. Just because I didn't use my ability day one doesn't mean I couldn't use it against mafia in the future. And Warden gets information too - if mafia knows I'm town, and they see other town people use supportive abilities on me, they know what roles think I'm town - or conversely, if they see other town use roleblocks on me, they have a smokescreen to use.

Quote
I believe IW is town, since him lying this randomly or the mafia team targeting each other this early makes even less sense.

Early game is the best time to safely bus.

Alright now its pointless to hide it in case 4 people somehow missed that pms between mafia are allowed.

Doubtful. The entire concept of the game mafia is that the mafia faction is an informed minority that can communicate with each other. This post may as well read as 'in case four people, playing the game mafia, have never heard of the game mafia' - one person getting their feet wet with a new experience, sure, but not four people.

Quote
This is my first game of mafia here so noone would have noticed it as unusual if I held back and waited for responses from mafia before posting anything major. As such I think the one thing that makes you suspicious of me is actually my best defense here. I can go into even more detail about this shallow point if you request it.
But my waking up call was not a member of mafia pming me "wth are you doing man", it was me spending a day asking "why does almost noone agree with me?".

Agreed on all counts.

I am also suspicious of most people who are actively engaging in the discussion including you. But in your case I tell myself I need to sit back a bit.
The reason I am suspicious is because you avoided being lynched and pushed (with great ease) the lynch on town GA. I was in accord with that but seeing the outcome it's just not comfortable. But if you were town it's the only viable play you had left unless you have a shitty role, then the small chance to kill mafia might not be worth it. The last part is the reason I try to come to my senses and see reason. If you were mafia it's a good play but needs to rouse suspicion.

If you thought it looked easy, I'm flattered - that was the hardest I have ever worked to avoid being lynched. I was convinced Espi would return his vote to me and I had no chance to live.

I agree the play should logically be looked at with caution. Any time a town is lynched should be viewed as some level of suspicious.

The strongest connection is between you and insig. Albeit one-sided.

Correct, this is a stronger connection than either Cal-IW or Cal-kae. I don't think it's any stronger than MW-Espi, me-Link, or shock-iancu.

Since dd didn't use an ability N0, it doesn't make sense for a mafia to Ward him since he probably doesn't have a strong role.

Disagree, as per above.

Quote
It makes sense for town Insig to Ward dd since he was scumreading him
Quote
There's guaranteed at least one mafia on that train.

Agreed with both.

Quote
Move to kaempfer with me if you're town, dd.

[20:28:41] ‹dawn_to_dusk› dd in response to that post: "Nah dude I'm mafia lol lemme stick on IW"

I'm open to playing your game as I did with shock's, but I'm not doing it at severe risk to myself. If someone else moves to kaempfer, I will too.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 07:14:39 pm
Well call me . I saw it coming.


[10:26:32] ‹shockcannon› I wanna see what ddevans tries when he's panicking
[10:27:52] ‹MasterWalks› hes going to cherry pick everyone's comments about him and dissect them until they are irrelevant like he has been doing.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 07:20:09 pm
[10:27:52] ‹MasterWalks› hes going to cherry pick everyone's comments about him and dissect them until they are irrelevant like he has been doing.

It's almost like I've played 60+ games between forum and chat in this community for people to see what my typical behavior is like.

You aren't a seer, you're a scholar. Still commendable, but not anything revelatory.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 28, 2019, 07:38:32 pm
[10:09:50] ‹shockcannon› ian is 100% maf

I just want to comment that if ian ends up being civ this game, the log loss (http://wiki.fast.ai/index.php/Log_Loss) of shock's predictions becomes infinite, basically meaning that he's so incorrect that human measures of classification performance are incapable of describing how unreliable he is. Just something to think about in future mafias - that one of the people you're playing with is an infinitely unreliable teammate.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 28, 2019, 07:42:38 pm
He was sus of dd, just like a ton of other people. You said it yourself (well more quoted it) If you are sus of someone, then yes roleblock them. Which is exactly what he did.
If there were a decent justification for why ddevans was mafia, then sure. But there isn't. No GN claim, no Oty reveal, not even Psion - basically nothing of value. I'd still wager it's more likely than not that IW is a civ playing way too recklessly, but the odds that he's mafia are definitely better than the odds that ddevans is.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 28, 2019, 07:44:22 pm
In case insig lied I think hes almost always mafia. To specific a claim and he didnt realize there was only 1 role that could tell with confidence (2 that can somewhat tell, but 2 fireflies were caught so how many are there gonna be realistically?). Although I struggle to find a reason for him to do that unless he wanted to out an oty as he (assuming hes lying) thought using oty early would always look scummy (rather than just generally a plain bad play unless fate egg). So if he has access to info of someones role that annoyed him that happened to be oty or claimed oty (like shock did at some point, likely as a joke), I imagine he could try to make carriers of the role look bad.

Is there a chance insig told the truth and yet both are mafia? While doublebussing often guarantees one lives for a while, guarding your own mafia teammate probably only makes sense if they have OU abilities.

could insig tell the truth, be mafia and dd town? Somewhat unlikely with dd always on the chopping block and having caught a firefly according to his words, so why would maf block him for likely no effect? Not an actual edit as I didnt post this yet, but seems dd suggests it was to block town from learning dds role. However doesnt the same thing still apply? Every good role except roleblocking/killing ones is absolutely worth using every opportunity you get so I dont think learning your role matters that much (let alone going the step further to do it just to prevent people from learning it).


Ok so what if insig is telling the truth and town? In that case he likely didnt realize warden is the only townrole that could have that kind of info (I guess that applies no matter what). Seems he regards all roleblocks as bad for town (no exception other than used on maf ofc)  ( I argued warden might be worth using blindly for the info and protection it gives, but he clearly thought otherwise with his claim to not have used it N0), so him using the ability on dd means he was decently confident of dd being maf. Hm, in that case i dont really know what to make of it really and its actually the most likely scenario... Wit the options for dd being town and maf to explore.

Dd has been really aggressive with pushing specific lynches, even after he got to his goal of selfpreservation for the round. And he really needs to make it more clear when he's calling of the dogs, I still havent found where he actually stated anything contrary to espithel being the one and only logical lynch so long as people follow through (until after he was directly questioned about it). I think focussing too much on one person for lynch target is likely bad for town in the long run as fewer people are actually forced to talk that way. For mafia getting town to lynch town is obv good.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 28, 2019, 07:55:27 pm
kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (1) - Iancudorinmarian
iancudorinmarian (2) - Espithel, Mobian

The more I think about my earlier theory, the more sense it makes. Also, ian seems to just rub me the wrong way.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 28, 2019, 08:09:54 pm
Dd has been really aggressive with pushing specific lynches, even after he got to his goal of selfpreservation for the round.

My goal of self-preservation had to last until the very end of d1, by necessity.

Quote
And he really needs to make it more clear when he's calling of the dogs, I still havent found where he actually stated anything contrary to espithel being the one and only logical lynch so long as people follow through (until after he was directly questioned about it).

[1] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289616/#msg1289616) Less than three hours after my initial post about Espi/MW, a post expressing comfort lynching shock.
[2] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289622/#msg1289622) An hour later, after a discussion with shock in chat, a post saying we shouldn't lynch shock, my preference is still Espi, but asking for alternatives.
[3] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289639/#msg1289639) An hour later, still preferring Espi, but expressing a willingness to change vote to anyone other than shock.
[4] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289652/#msg1289652) Less than an hour later, a statement that I would change my vote to my biggest scumread, which was not Espi, and note that in this post I defended Espi
[5] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-71-by-submachine/msg1289666/#msg1289666) Two hours later, expressed reluctance to no-lynch, but not outright defiance.

Did I ever explicitly 'call off the dogs' on Espi? Maybe not. Did I think I had to? Absolutely not.

Quote
Here's one, about I think focussing too much on one person for lynch target is likely bad for town in the long run as fewer people are actually forced to talk that way. For mafia getting town to lynch town is obv good.

My initial focus on Espi also indicated multiple times that I considered MW a viable option as well.
My stance then shifted to feeling comfortable lynching anyone but shock.
My self-preservation push on jcj was fueled by input from others about which potential target to choose from.
In both rounds, I expressed a willingness to lynch you if that's something people considered a good option.

I think there are multiple people in this game who have focused more on people than I have. Like the 'orchestrating' buzzword, I think this is off the mark.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 08:40:42 pm
I would like to request Ginyu, Mathman, and coffee to share their thoughts on this insig/DD ordeal as well as maybe their scum reads.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 28, 2019, 09:39:10 pm
[10:09:50] ‹shockcannon› ian is 100% maf

I just want to comment that if ian ends up being civ this game, the log loss (http://wiki.fast.ai/index.php/Log_Loss) of shock's predictions becomes infinite, basically meaning that he's so incorrect that human measures of classification performance are incapable of describing how unreliable he is. Just something to think about in future mafias - that one of the people you're playing with is an infinitely unreliable teammate.



I'll respect your doubt. Let's play a game. We never lynch ian and see if town wins.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 28, 2019, 09:42:36 pm
@Mobian @Espithel

I made a typo, every time I said mafia in the same sentence as ian I really meant town. You're just looking like mafia or town noobs by voting him up. Ian has told us he has a very important role and he would be willing to die just to spite me if his role wasn't so important. Also mind flayer keeps blocking him every night because mind flayer is probably mafia and knows ian has a powerful role because ian publicly told everyone he has a powerful role. I'm mind flayer. :)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 28, 2019, 09:45:20 pm
So you are blocking ian every round? If so, thats some pond scum right there.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 28, 2019, 10:20:46 pm
I wanted to lynch shock but couldn't get the votes for it :/
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 29, 2019, 02:17:54 am
[07:54:52] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› At night
[07:55:04] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I don’t think we cud
[07:55:10] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[07:56:28] ‹Guest-Armagio-0dbfb› FINE SOUNDS GOOD!
[07:57:49] ‹Wyand›
[07:59:29] ‹MyNameIsJoey› well evans you call that traditional but ive never heard of a twilight phase.
[07:59:44] ‹ddevans96› https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tw...
[08:00:45] ‹MyNameIsJoey› Feels completely wrong to me.
[08:00:54] ‹MyNameIsJoey› though i understand why you'd want it in some setups
[08:18:18] ‹Wyand›
[08:22:23] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[08:36:48] ‹Linkcat› I didn't ask rob to play because there were already a lot of people signed up.
[08:37:08] ‹ddevans96› I was planning on it anyways
[08:37:16] ‹ddevans96› just spaced my mind
[08:39:44] ‹ddevans96› ‹@MyNameIsJoey› what makes it feel wrong?
[08:42:52] ‹Linkcat› I got talking during night into the rule a long time ago because there were no rules against talking in chat or sending PM during the night. In games with PMs banned I never tried to remove it since I like the game more this way.
[08:43:34] ‹Linkcat› Twilight does look weird to me.
[08:44:19] ‹ddevans96› I think it adds way more strategy, personally
[08:48:10] ‹Linkcat› Which one?
[08:48:21] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I bet root thinks I’m mafia otyugh
[08:50:22] ‹Wyand›
[08:51:13] ‹Linkcat›
[08:58:16] ‹Wyand› ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› shock?
[08:58:56] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[08:59:23] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Shock?
[09:00:01] ‹Wyand› thought you are shockcannon
[09:00:27] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I don’t know who shockcannon is
[09:00:57] ‹Wyand› no big deal, just a noob :silly:
[09:01:25] ‹MasterWalks› :o
[09:02:20] ‹Wyand› ‹@MasterWalks› lol
[09:10:28] ‹Wyand›
[09:19:54] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-28 16:48:10] ‹Linkcat› Which one? < all of them
[09:20:06] ‹ddevans96› it's not twilight itself that raises the strategy, it's the hammer
[09:25:38] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[09:25:56] ‹MasterWalks›
[09:30:40] ‹Wyand›
[09:44:07] ‹Linkcat› ‹@ddevans96›
[09:44:35] ‹Linkcat› Oh, the hammer. I agree, but you don't need Twilight to do that, never even heard of it before.
[09:54:56] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[10:14:59] ‹ddevans96› Twilight just happens inherently with a hammer
[10:18:33] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[10:31:51] ‹MasterWalks›
[10:50:06] ‹Calindu›
[10:52:03] ‹MasterWalks› i wonder if mathman will agree to speedbuilding 12 lives
[10:52:35] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[10:54:45] ‹ddevans96› he probably would, or at least short notice
[10:54:57] ‹ddevans96› if he's not terribly busy lately
[11:00:46] ‹MasterWalks› should be fun.
[11:13:51] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[11:21:11] ‹MasterWalks› @Linkcat
[11:21:37] ‹MasterWalks› Whats your read on kaempf after his response? Still getting scum?
[11:26:37] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If IW blocked Oty on dd
[11:26:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› This is some next level bus
[11:26:51] ‹dawn_to_dusk› IW mafia, "therefore Oty can't be mafia"
[11:27:03] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Turns out the three of them were mafia the whole time
[11:27:07] ‹ddevans96› yeet
[11:28:36] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That being said, mafia Oty targeting an already dying player is weird
[11:28:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ^That meaning, a player with a ton of suspicion around them
[11:29:00] ‹MasterWalks› The only way he wouldve known it would block oty is if oty is mafia too. I personally dont think this is the case
[11:29:39] ‹MasterWalks› i think he guarded dd due to sus and foolishly role revealed thinking he would be mistaken for dragonfly, a less scummy role.
[11:29:54] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But then you're looking at 2 town using extremely aggressive roles against the same person who isn't even confirmed mafia
[11:30:22] ‹ddevans96› unless the oty isn't town
[11:30:24] ‹MasterWalks› No but that 2 agressive roles on someone who is has been getting quite a few votes since day 1
[11:30:41] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But why would mafia Oty target a player who is about to die
[11:31:06] ‹ddevans96› I mean...no guarantee I'm getting lynching this round
[11:31:15] ‹ddevans96› lynched*
[11:31:19] ‹MasterWalks› in case he dodges death like the last day lynch
[11:31:23] ‹ddevans96› and certainly no guarantee of that before the day started
[11:31:24] ‹dawn_to_dusk› As MW said, you've been getting a lot of votes
[11:31:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Why would mafia target you as Oty
[11:31:52] ‹dawn_to_dusk› It's like an extra NK
[11:32:05] ‹MasterWalks› I really dont like this oty person
[11:32:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Unless mafia Oty thought they were getting lynched
[11:32:12] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But again
[11:32:14] ‹MasterWalks› more sketch than dd and insig
[11:32:15] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Why dd
[11:32:29] ‹ddevans96› bc 'everyone is voting on me' - it would be easy for a mafia Oty to act as if they were a town Oty
[11:32:40] ‹ddevans96› i.e. 'we all thought he was suspicious, now we have information to lynch someone else'
[11:32:49] ‹MasterWalks› well i mean oty wouldve had to target the night before. Meaning they would have no idea how todays lynch would go
[11:33:02] ‹ddevans96› yeah, but I evaded the lynch d1
[11:33:05] ‹ddevans96› would still apply
[11:33:32] ‹MasterWalks› but a NK can change things drastically.
[11:33:33] ‹ddevans96› also, you know what would be REALLY funny
[11:33:42] ‹ddevans96› what if IW is FE
[11:33:46] ‹MasterWalks› either this oty is nub or mafia
[11:33:51] ‹dawn_to_dusk› It makes more sense for them to save it for LyLo
[11:34:03] ‹MasterWalks› LyLo?
[11:34:06] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If they were mafia
[11:34:09] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Lynch or Lose
[11:34:10] ‹ddevans96› lynch or lose
[11:34:16] ‹ddevans96› i.e. if you don't lynch mafia, the game is over
[11:34:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› They use it the night of, and claim victory
[11:34:32] ‹dawn_to_dusk› This forces an unknown LyLo the day before
[11:34:44] ‹ddevans96› there's also MyLo, mislynch and lose - if you lynch a town you die, but if you no lynch the next round is LyLo
[11:34:58] ‹MasterWalks› even if i was oty and was pretty safe, i would still probably use it on the most sus person
[11:35:01] ‹ddevans96› and yeah, the safe play for mafia Oty would be to save it for endgame
[11:35:13] ‹MasterWalks› dunno if thats dd at the moment tho
[11:35:27] ‹ddevans96› but killing me earl - wait a second
[11:35:34] ‹ddevans96› who's more suspicious than me right now?
[11:35:37] ‹ddevans96› in your eyes
[11:35:48] ‹MasterWalks› Espithel.
[11:36:04] ‹ddevans96› okay, fair
[11:36:29] ‹ddevans96› thought you meant in the game as a whole, not in your eyes
[11:36:31] ‹dawn_to_dusk› This situation makes no sense

(Somewhat tl;dr)
The Oty situation makes no sense

Situation A - dd town
1. Mafia Oty - why would they use it on someone who is about to get lynched? Much better to save for LyLo (Lynch or lose)
2. Town Oty/Town IW - Why would 2 people, both with hyperaggressive roles, both target the same person who only "looks scummy"?
3. Unknown Fate Egg - Rolls FFQ N0, uses it on someone, who then catches it N1. Rolls Oty N1, uses it to kill dd.
3a. Town Fate Egg - Feels like he needs to use it, so uses it on the person he deems most scummy at the time. Somewhat makes sense.
3b. Mafia Fate Egg - Attempts to kill someone who he doesn't think will be protected. But still a weird choice to vote for.
4. Town Oty/Mafia IW - Fears dd's ability for some reason, despite him not using it N0. Makes little sense but included it for completion

Situation B - dd mafia
1. Mafia Oty/Mafia IW - Super specific. Requires a lot of risk to make this play work well for them, but isn't unspeakable. This situation makes dd look town, especially if he is at the forefront of the IW vote. Oty also looks somewhat town/irrelevant to the situation, or even looks town based off voting patterns and the above statement that Oty should save ability.
2. Mafia Fate Egg/Mafia IW - Related to the above situation, but Oty is no longer an OU ability that they should save, and they can create this situation to make """Otyugh""" look town.
3. Town OtyEgg/Mafia IW - Lucky protection, makes little sense.
4. Town OtyEgg/Town IW - See Situation A Town/Town
5. Mafia OtyEgg/Town IW - MASSIVELY risky play, but makes Oty look super town. They got unlucky with IW protecting dd.

No idea what the most likely scenario here is, wouldn't mind hearing more input

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 29, 2019, 02:18:36 am
Again, I did not read any bigger chat logs, so if I missed some information, please post them.

As for, dd/Insig, lets look at the possibilities:

The Oty is probably a town reading into dd as scum, because mafia outing themself so early is something I highly doubt. It might be connected with some kind of bus, but I can't really pull that together. The other possibility is a hatched Oty, which makes the most sense to me, but still leaves the Egg as a town. If that Oty/Egg was mafia, they would likely think of them being the next lynch target and therefore use their ability as long as they can, but eating dd reveals way too much information and kills someone already about to get lynched, so they would rather eat someone silent imo.

Overall, I feel like exactly one of them is mafia, but I can't really tell who. Insig's reveal does hold something weird, so I am more inclined to think of him.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: mathman101 on May 29, 2019, 02:23:23 am

kaempfer13 (1) -  Linkcat
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (2) - Espithel, Mobian

8+ pages of reading is too much for one sitting, I'm gonna just vote and pretend I read stuffs. :P
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 02:35:29 am
What happens if iridium warden guards another iridium warden?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 29, 2019, 02:36:14 am
What happens if iridium warden guards another iridium warden?

"If two roleblocking roles with the same priority target each other, both abilities fail. If only one targets the other, the ability of the one that was targeted fails."
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 03:01:43 am
Okay, this is a little prep work for the next day phase.


On day 3 we will have 3 nights worth of ability information to work off of. I know people are really against role claiming but I think we need at least 3-4 of us to role claim and share everything we did truthfully on day 3. I would prefer is town steps out of their comfort zone and reveals early. If we let mafia reveal they could lie and could control the flow of the game. Preferably everyone would just reveal and then we could work out who exactly is lying. Having all the info out on the table makes it harder for mafia to come up with believable lies.

Now, as to why revealing is good. Revealing gives us information to deduce who is targeting who, which is pretty much the only way outside of GN that we can find mafia. Obviously, revealing lets mafia figure out the power roles sooner and kill them off early, but guess what, they have to kill off like 9-10 of us before they win. The earlier we all reveal the longer we have to use that information. If we can't at least kill off 1 mafia in 5 day/night cycles we really don't deserve to win anyways. The more mafia we kill, the more time it buys us. Who cares if mafia knows some roles, we have all the time in the world to find them. I get that losing GN would pretty much mean we have 0 concrete evidence, but I'm hoping GN would find at least 1 mafia by day 3. I think even if a few of us reveal on day 3, GN would still have a pretty solid shot at living to investigate at least 1 more person.

I also think we have enough info from voting during the day to narrow down mafia to groups of people. For example, I don't think it'll be too hard to find two people where 1 of them is almost definitely mafia and the other isn't. We kill one and we either get lucky or we know the other is mafia.

Anyways, on to an example of why I would like to reveal day 3. Ian claims he was blocked N1 and caught a firefly. Assuming this info is actually fact, that means mind flayer blocked ian and no one else targeted ian except firefly. If firefly were to confirm or deny this, we would gain a lot of info. Because if we find out ian is lying that implies a lot of new things. He could be town trying to keep mafia from checking him. He could be mafia trying to throw suspicion off himself. Who knows? But that knowledge that ian was lying offers us a lot of concrete evidence that we can then try to match up with his actions in voting. If we can confirm from firefly queen that ian is telling the truth, we know that a mind flayer is consecutively blocking ian. That tells us a lot as well. If we think the mind flayer is mafia and the psion finds mind flayer, well guess what, we just found ourselves a mafia.

Basically, I really truly believe some role revealing (personally I think a lot of role revealing is even better) is more helpful to town than it is to mafia.


AS A RESULT,
I will be revealing my actual role on day 3. In doing so, I may end up revealing things about other players, either directly or indirectly. I will also post theories I have gathered to coincide with my role and what I've seen in the posts and votes so far. If you think I'm about to throw for town, I would encourage you to actually considering sharing your info instead, especially after you read what I have to say. If the right people coordinate with me on day 3 I'm like 99% confident we can pinpoint 2 mafia right there and then, without having to rely on my reads (which some might consider unreliable).

If mafia or otyugh wants to eat me before I can info dump, so be it. It will definitely make for an interesting game. If mafia kills me the question becomes, did they kill me because they knew that I knew who they were? Or did they kill me because the people I have accused are town, and mafia killing me will likely lead to town lynching those I accused, effectively allowing mafia to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I foresaw this latter possibility way before, and the way I chose to counter it was by simply being right in my accusations. If ian really is mafia, then I essentially checkmated them. Either they keep me alive and I offer my evidence to get doubtful townies to join me, or they kill me and risk everyone lynching ian because I was so adamant about him being mafia.


P.S. If I sound crazy and like a mafia-helping towny, don't blame me. I speedbuilt this post. Also, replace mafia with townie whenever I'm talking about ian.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 03:07:58 am
It sounds like you are bored. It sounds like you want to speed up the game.

Which roles would you like revealed? FFQ, Mindflayer, and what else?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 03:26:29 am
It all depends. But after I role reveal and share, if people think there info is relevant after what I share, I think they should reveal. At least a couple people.

ALSO, I just wanted to add something else that may be considered a little to spicy.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY think Golden Nymph should reveal the moment they know the identities of 3 other ALIVE players, even if these players are all town. This reveal would offer everyone with 4 confirmed primary roles since golden nymph is revealing themselves. Having 4 confirmed primary roles gives town the upperhand for AT LEAST that day. We can use this to make a real play in voting. Confirmed players could then role reveal and share info that we can use to retroactively spot mafia through unusual voting patterns in the past or find out if one of them straight up lied at some point.

If you think about it, we are likely to lose a player almost every night and day. And since GN is EOR, the odds of GN having useful info actually DROPS the longer the game goes on because it's highly likely that GN targets will just end up dying. For GN to have 3 confirmed alive players, that would take 5 straight night phases with none of the GN targets dying. That's actually a pretty long time. As a result, I think it's 100% reasonable and smart to have GN reveal whenever they manage to get 3 alive and confirmed players.

I know we decided on waiting for 2 confirmed mafia, but I think 3 confirmed townies is almost (obviously not quite) as valuable and it's not worth risking losing GN without getting any info at all.

KEEP IN MIND, GN can't leave breadcrumbs with votes if they are only finding town. Knowing confirmed town is WAY better than knowing nothing and gambling on GN hitting the right person while not getting role blocked or killed.

One other thing to keep in mind, GN can't go through invulnerable without momentum and we don't know what roles are in play and which factions control those roles. From a purely odds standpoint, the longer this game goes, the greater the chance that something goes wrong related to the GN.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 03:32:08 am
I am actually down for shocks plan. The only problem is people lying, which is almost a guaranteed thing to happen.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 03:34:24 am
One last note, I am currently altering my info dump a little. I missed a couple early posts that may have drastic consequences on my read. For those concerned about what my current reads appear to be, I'm reevaluating ddevans and ian to explore the small chance they are both town. I am also reevaluating RootRanger, MasterWalks, and Espithel as all possible mafia candidates as to not underestimate their capability to use dumb townie as a disguise.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 04:01:55 am
I would like to add to this plan.
I think ONLY 4 roles reveal, and only specific ones.

Psion- Who you targeted and if we should be wary of any of their roles. You dont have to reveal their roles tho

Otyugh- explain why you targeted dd. If psion outs you and you dont explain, expect to be lynched.

Phoenix- You can cover while other roles do work. You can still talk. I really hope this is a person who hasnt talked much so far.

GN- Lets be real, you are probably going to be able to only target 2 people while you live. Reveal your targets and their primary role. Mafia or not.

If psion is town, i request that if we have another GA, they protect psion.
Otyugh, you better be good with words, this will not be that pretty for you, and it will be much much worse if you are discovered without claiming.
GN, expect to die asap after revealing.

If someone claims one of these roles, and you also have it, you should claim too. Town can deduce if there are multiple or only one and decide which one to trust.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 04:03:12 am
I would like to add to this plan.
I think ONLY 4 roles reveal, and only specific ones.

Psion- Who you targeted and if we should be wary of any of their roles. You dont have to reveal their identities tho if it wouldnt help.
EBWOP
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 04:18:03 am
I missed a couple early posts that may have drastic consequences on my read. For those concerned about what my current reads appear to be, I'm reevaluating ddevans and ian to explore the small chance they are both town.

To be clear - are you saying you suspect it is very unlikely that we are both town, and so it is very likely at least one of us is mafia? Or are you saying you suspect is very unlikely either of us is town, and so it is very likely that we are both mafia?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 04:19:43 am
I skimmed through shock's plans over a drink, and I have no objections so large that I would like to voice them before the input of others. I think we've acted upon worse ideas in the past.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 29, 2019, 06:25:08 am
I suggest we wait for today's lynch before this whole roleclaim thing, which I am really not too sure about. It didnt help at all last game and I suspect a similar result

Also, shock realized he cant read people so now he is going for this roleclaim madness again. From 100% mafia to 100% town. I am awaiting the next flip.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 29, 2019, 12:55:42 pm
[2019-05-29 11:37:07] ddevans96: if it's mafia Oty, they went for a risky play
[2019-05-29 11:37:15] ddevans96: dick-on-table play, honestly
[2019-05-29 11:37:34] ddevans96: I'd respect it if that were the case
[2019-05-29 11:37:35] dawn_to_dusk: And then you have Mafia Fate Egg
[2019-05-29 11:37:48] ddevans96: I hope it's IW Egg
[2019-05-29 11:37:53] ddevans96: regardless of whether he's mafia or not
[2019-05-29 11:37:56] MasterWalks: in the game as a whole, before this day, yea i might say you. Only for O R C H ES T R A T I N G tho
[2019-05-29 11:38:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Hi fans of good card games from asdw152 in Introduce Yourself. Yes! Finally!
[2019-05-29 11:38:09] MasterWalks: actually, fate egg oty makes sense
[2019-05-29 11:38:20] dawn_to_dusk: Also got FFQ N0
[2019-05-29 11:38:25] MasterWalks: IW got fate egg last game
[2019-05-29 11:38:26] dawn_to_dusk: Targeted someone who used their ability
[2019-05-29 11:38:34] MasterWalks: i understand he could roll again tho
[2019-05-29 11:38:39] dawn_to_dusk: Who then caught the FF N1
[2019-05-29 11:38:57] dawn_to_dusk: Either ian or the other person who I can't remember
[2019-05-29 11:39:04] MasterWalks: i caught one
[2019-05-29 11:39:27] InsignificantWeeaboo: e g g
[2019-05-29 11:39:33] ddevans96: ugh, I need to build decks for 12 Lives, but I just don't feel like it
[2019-05-29 11:39:35] ddevans96: E G G M A N
[2019-05-29 11:39:47] dawn_to_dusk: Ahhh
[2019-05-29 11:40:07] dawn_to_dusk: So if you used ability N0 then I'm happy with saying that Oty was Town Egg who voted dd D1
[2019-05-29 11:40:27] dawn_to_dusk: Though I want to see how many people catch Fireflies N2
[2019-05-29 11:40:45] ddevans96: same
[2019-05-29 11:41:17] MasterWalks: I think we need to stop revealing firefly catches
[2019-05-29 11:42:10] MasterWalks: Linkcat, InsignificantWeeaboo, Calindu, iancudorinmarian
[2019-05-29 11:42:19] MasterWalks: these are the people who voted DD night 1
[2019-05-29 11:42:22] MasterWalks: day1*
[2019-05-29 11:42:40] dawn_to_dusk: Insig claims Warden, obviously
[2019-05-29 11:42:44] MasterWalks: oh and mobian
[2019-05-29 11:43:41] MasterWalks: I dont think ian would, since he caught firefly, if he not lying. Linkcat? maybe possibly. Cal? i dunno cal well enough.
[2019-05-29 11:44:03] MasterWalks: I doubt mobian did. He wants to play super duper passively
[2019-05-29 11:44:28] dawn_to_dusk: Ian claims an important role
[2019-05-29 11:44:41] dawn_to_dusk: So either mafia Oty (which as we've said, makes no sense)
[2019-05-29 11:44:53] MasterWalks: an important role he hasnt used yet
[2019-05-29 11:45:02] dawn_to_dusk: Mafia Fate Egg (Which doesn't make much sense either)
[2019-05-29 11:45:09] MasterWalks: if hes psion or GN he wouldve used it
[2019-05-29 11:45:13] dawn_to_dusk: Or irrelevant to this situation
[2019-05-29 11:45:33] ddevans96: it could also be someone who didn't vote for me - or finish with their vote on me, to be clear
[2019-05-29 11:45:53] ddevans96: bc they could have been 'meh' on me, but when I survived the lynch and jcj flipped town, it aroused their suspicions
[2019-05-29 11:46:06] MasterWalks: ian is starting to sketch me now that i type it out.
[2019-05-29 11:46:28] ddevans96: I wouldn't narrow Oty to just the people who voted for me, is basically what I'm saying
[2019-05-29 11:46:34] dawn_to_dusk: Didn't you hear
[2019-05-29 11:46:44] dawn_to_dusk: Shock mistyped every time he said Ian and Mafia in the same sentence
[2019-05-29 11:47:09] ddevans96: shockcannon, more like loosecannon
[2019-05-29 11:47:14] ddevans96: goteem
[2019-05-29 11:47:34] ddevans96: anyways - I think we learn more about iancu from shock's info dump
[2019-05-29 11:47:36] MasterWalks: Ok hear me out
[2019-05-29 11:47:42] MasterWalks: Espithel is oty
[2019-05-29 11:47:51] ddevans96: bc that's his most consistent thing (I feel like his last post is a meme tbh)
[2019-05-29 11:48:07] ddevans96: when we learn whether or not shock has anything going for him, we learn more about iancu
[2019-05-29 11:48:09] MasterWalks: Wait nvm
[2019-05-29 11:48:18] ddevans96: no, keep going
[2019-05-29 11:48:23] ddevans96: even if it's bunk I'm curious
[2019-05-29 11:48:55] MasterWalks: its bunk because that would mean he was blocked, which he said he was not.
[2019-05-29 11:48:59] dawn_to_dusk: Btw I don't think Kaempf is town atm
[2019-05-29 11:49:08] ddevans96: oh, fair
[2019-05-29 11:49:10] MasterWalks: I guess he could lie, but dunno why lying about that would help
[2019-05-29 11:49:33] dawn_to_dusk: Sorry Link
[2019-05-29 11:50:25] MasterWalks: What makes you think kaempf is maf?
[2019-05-29 11:50:25] ddevans96: wait, you do or don't think kaempfer is town?
[2019-05-29 11:50:28] shockcannon: you mean mafia?
[2019-05-29 11:50:34] ddevans96: bc Link wants kaempfer lynched
[2019-05-29 11:51:11] dawn_to_dusk: Oh mb
[2019-05-29 11:51:14] dawn_to_dusk: I mean't do
[2019-05-29 11:51:16] dawn_to_dusk: Meant
[2019-05-29 11:51:19] dawn_to_dusk: Whatever
[2019-05-29 11:51:23] dawn_to_dusk: Kaempf is town in my eyes
[2019-05-29 11:51:25] ddevans96: oh aight
[2019-05-29 11:51:50] MasterWalks: what role could shock have that would let him info dump day3?
[2019-05-29 11:51:53] MasterWalks: FFQ?
[2019-05-29 11:52:27] MasterWalks: GN?
[2019-05-29 11:52:29] shockcannon: my role doesn't matter for half of the info dump
[2019-05-29 11:52:36] MasterWalks: He could target 3 people in that time with GN
[2019-05-29 11:52:39] dawn_to_dusk: Flayer obv
[2019-05-29 11:52:51] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: Only thing you need is good maf skills
[2019-05-29 11:52:58] dawn_to_dusk: GN is EoR
[2019-05-29 11:53:05] shockcannon: yeah i'm flayer
[2019-05-29 11:53:07] ddevans96: shock just thinks he's way ahead of everyone else
[2019-05-29 11:53:09] shockcannon: said it like 3 times
[2019-05-29 11:53:11] dawn_to_dusk: So 2 people
[2019-05-29 11:53:34] dawn_to_dusk: Lets lynch ian and see how valid Shock's info is before he releases it
[2019-05-29 11:53:37] dawn_to_dusk: Lul
[2019-05-29 11:53:44] MasterWalks: wait, they nerfed GN hard this game then
[2019-05-29 11:53:50] ddevans96: I mean I'd be down
[2019-05-29 11:53:55] ddevans96: it'd be hilarious either way
[2019-05-29 11:53:57] dawn_to_dusk: It was the same as last game
[2019-05-29 11:53:57] MasterWalks: No protect and only EoR lol.
[2019-05-29 11:54:26] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: ‹@dawn_to_dusk› last game was ER
[2019-05-29 11:54:50] MasterWalks: oh wow, didnt realize its EoR both games
[2019-05-29 11:54:59] dawn_to_dusk: ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Nope
[2019-05-29 11:55:09] dawn_to_dusk: EoR, can't be protected
[2019-05-29 11:55:10] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: ‹@dawn_to_dusk› blame Walker
[2019-05-29 11:55:13] dawn_to_dusk: Same as this game
[2019-05-29 11:55:52] MasterWalks: ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Me? Walks*
[2019-05-29 11:56:10] dawn_to_dusk: Texas Ranger
[2019-05-29 11:56:30] MasterWalks: its Walks for a reason. Not Walker, i aint no old person stand up wheelchair
[2019-05-29 11:56:53] dawn_to_dusk: You don't want to be Chuck Norris?
[2019-05-29 11:57:17] MasterWalks: B O W F L E X
[2019-05-29 11:57:33] MasterWalks: gtg, be back later. Someone post log
[2019-05-29 11:57:38] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: ‹@MasterWalks› walks X master = walker
[2019-05-29 11:57:56] Vineroz: malks
[2019-05-29 11:58:13] dawn_to_dusk: I'm posting log pt1
[2019-05-29 11:58:20] dawn_to_dusk: Along with thoughts
[2019-05-29 11:58:24] dawn_to_dusk: Log pt2 is boring

Follow ons from earlier, bringing actual people into the mix
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 29, 2019, 12:56:36 pm
[2019-05-29 11:58:34] shockcannon: honestly does anyone even read these logs
[2019-05-29 11:58:35] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: Are you
[2019-05-29 11:58:54] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: What name are you using for log
[2019-05-29 11:58:57] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: base*
[2019-05-29 11:58:59] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: Not name
[2019-05-29 11:59:37] dawn_to_dusk: I like tl;drs for them
[2019-05-29 11:59:55] shockcannon: if ddevans doesn't die today he's mafia
[2019-05-29 12:00:19] shockcannon: hot take
[2019-05-29 12:00:22] shockcannon: only townies in chat right now
[2019-05-29 12:01:40] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: I’m not a townie
[2019-05-29 12:02:12] dawn_to_dusk: Vine is a total scum read
[2019-05-29 12:02:37] dawn_to_dusk: I'll post all chat logs btw don't worry
[2019-05-29 12:02:37] InsignificantWeeaboo:
(5d9) 7 + 6 + 3 + 7 + 5 = 28 ...
[2019-05-29 12:03:01] Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1: ‹@dawn_to_dusk› btw whenever you type down, type dawn instead
[2019-05-29 12:07:24] dawn_to_dusk: Oh no
[2019-05-29 12:07:47] dawn_to_dusk: Lets get dawn to basics
[2019-05-29 12:07:48] dawn_to_dusk: I hate this
[2019-05-29 12:08:33] ddevans96: [2019-05-28 19:59:55] ‹shockcannon› if ddevans doesn't die today he's mafia < so let's say I'm mafia, and the other mafia helped me live last night
[2019-05-29 12:09:25] ddevans96: what's the smart amount they should be helping me now?
[2019-05-29 12:09:58] ddevans96: bc if I live today, get lynched tomorrow, and I flip mafia, any mafia who voted on my self-pres target immediately comes under suspicion
[2019-05-29 12:10:34] ddevans96: those sentences are trainwrecks, I'm hangry, but you should get the jist
[2019-05-29 12:10:45] ddevans96: would be dumb for mafia to go all-in on saving me two days in a row
[2019-05-29 12:11:10] ddevans96: smart play for mafia tonight, if I was mafia, would be to just let me die, and have me throw as much chaos as possible on the way out
[2019-05-29 12:12:49] ddevans96: the only exception to that is if I have a role that's valuable to mafia. do you think that's the case
[2019-05-29 12:12:51] ddevans96: ?*
[2019-05-29 12:13:19] shockcannon: there's a lot of possibilities
[2019-05-29 12:13:43] ddevans96: do I have a role so valuable to mafia that my team would keep me alive at all costs, even to the point of setting themselves up for great scrutiny later in the game?
[2019-05-29 12:13:48] ddevans96: sure, but how many are likely?
[2019-05-29 12:15:26] ddevans96: 'if dd doesn't die today, he's mafia' is missing a 'because'
[2019-05-29 12:16:11] shockcannon: ok
[2019-05-29 12:16:16] shockcannon: I'm doing some thinking
[2019-05-29 12:16:23] shockcannon: there's basically two possible sets of mafia
[2019-05-29 12:16:47] ddevans96: SIGNS OF INTELLIGENT LIFE DISCOVERED
[2019-05-29 12:16:48] shockcannon: I'm checking my bases because while I think one option is like 90% correct, i'm not going to ignore the 10% that it's incorrect
[2019-05-29 12:16:52] ddevans96: [ALARM]
[2019-05-29 12:17:11] shockcannon: regardless
[2019-05-29 12:17:16] shockcannon: if ian turns out to be town
[2019-05-29 12:17:27] shockcannon: then I still know who at least 2 mafia are
[2019-05-29 12:17:37] shockcannon: so it works out regardless
[2019-05-29 12:17:55] ddevans96: [ALARM CONTINUES]
[2019-05-29 12:18:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from dawn to dusk in Forum Games. There is no spit in this post!
[2019-05-29 12:20:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Ginyu in Forum Games. It's okay, I guess.
[2019-05-29 12:20:33] dawn_to_dusk: Lmao Gin
[2019-05-29 12:21:17] ddevans96: if nothing else, it bears noting that you both submitted a pretty extensive analysis of the situation close to each other
[2019-05-29 12:21:45] ddevans96: means people are coming to similar conclusions
[2019-05-29 12:23:42] Vineroz: yikes
[2019-05-29 12:24:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from mathman101 in Forum Games. Also, you look like you need some coffee.
[2019-05-29 12:24:53] dawn_to_dusk: I feel like Fate Egg Otyugh is most likely, but then you're playing with probabilities
[2019-05-29 12:25:16] Ginyu: You always play with probabilities in mafia.
[2019-05-29 12:25:17] shockcannon: Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101 iancudorinmarian (2) - Espithel, Mobian
[2019-05-29 12:25:25] shockcannon: this greatly intrigues me
[2019-05-29 12:25:44] ddevans96: [ALARM INTENSIFIES]
[2019-05-29 12:26:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Polls for Mafia 71 from mathman101 in Off-Topic Discussions. You got 30 minutes.
[2019-05-29 12:27:07] ddevans96: I have to go out for a bit. someone else maintain the alarm while I'm gone
[2019-05-29 12:30:32] shockcannon: i almost had an epiphany
[2019-05-29 12:30:36] shockcannon: but logic shot down that theory
[2019-05-29 12:31:13] shockcannon: I keep looking for ways that ian can be town
[2019-05-29 12:31:18] shockcannon: and I can't find it\
[2019-05-29 12:32:34] MasterWalks: what is it that make you soooo sure he is maf
[2019-05-29 12:32:42] MasterWalks: are you GN/
[2019-05-29 12:33:26] shockcannon: well it's possible ian is town
[2019-05-29 12:33:36] shockcannon: but i'm quite certain he's lying about being blocked
[2019-05-29 12:35:14] MasterWalks: which means he is lying about the FireFly
[2019-05-29 12:36:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. Imagination at work.
[2019-05-29 12:36:06] shockcannon: if he's not then firefly should come out
[2019-05-29 12:37:03] MasterWalks: its not like it would be a huge mafia target to kill ffq. although they killed seraph so who knows what they are thinking
[2019-05-29 12:37:19] MasterWalks: im inclined to believe mafia does not have a good intel role
[2019-05-29 12:37:41] shockcannon: i'm inclined to believe they do
[2019-05-29 12:37:57] MasterWalks: so the Oa kill was a front?
[2019-05-29 12:38:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Ginyu in Forum Games. Did somebody mention this post already?
[2019-05-29 12:40:19] shockcannon: we really need like 3 people to roleclaim and say what they did
[2019-05-29 12:40:31] shockcannon: if that happens things will become much much easier
[2019-05-29 12:41:32] MasterWalks: well obv but that helps maf way too much
[2019-05-29 12:42:58] shockcannon: alright
[2019-05-29 12:43:00] shockcannon: i'm making a post
[2019-05-29 12:43:03] shockcannon: its going to be a little long
[2019-05-29 12:43:12] MasterWalks: info dump post?
[2019-05-29 12:43:30] dawn_to_dusk: Right now might not be the best time for info claim, but next day phase could be nice
[2019-05-29 12:43:42] MasterWalks: no
[2019-05-29 12:43:45] MasterWalks: let him do it
[2019-05-29 12:44:00] MasterWalks: i dont think he really has all that concrete of info
[2019-05-29 12:47:00] dawn_to_dusk: I mean claims from like, FFQ and stuff
[2019-05-29 12:47:52] MasterWalks: I think ffq wouldnt be all that bad. I hope he reveals this scum oty
[2019-05-29 12:48:24] MasterWalks: as long as he doesnt claim GN, Psion, or vulture we should be aight
[2019-05-29 12:49:44] shockcannon: this isn't my info dump
[2019-05-29 12:57:28] InsignificantWeeaboo:
(5d9) 6 + 5 + 2 + 6 + 6 = 25 ...
[2019-05-29 13:01:49] shockcannon: posted
[2019-05-29 13:02:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. The post that refreshes.
[2019-05-29 13:06:22] MasterWalks: ‹@shockcannon› can i use "i speedbuilt this post" as my signature?
[2019-05-29 13:08:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. Every single time, someone has to go and say something like this.
[2019-05-29 13:08:34] shockcannon: idc
[2019-05-29 13:08:34] dawn_to_dusk: ‹@shockcannon› You're aware that GN is EoR, and can't be protected, right?
[2019-05-29 13:08:45] shockcannon: yep
[2019-05-29 13:08:54] dawn_to_dusk: So can't use ability N3, and couldn't N1 either
[2019-05-29 13:08:55] dawn_to_dusk: Alright
[2019-05-29 13:09:28] shockcannon: assuming GN isn't blocked GN should have 2 known primary roles by day 3
[2019-05-29 13:09:31] MasterWalks: I dont see GN living past N3 tbh
[2019-05-29 13:09:40] shockcannon: also assuming we lynch every day and mafia kills every night
[2019-05-29 13:09:46] shockcannon: 2 people die every time GN can find 1 person
[2019-05-29 13:09:56] shockcannon: the odds of GN having useful info goes down as time goes on
[2019-05-29 13:10:28] shockcannon: so I have no problem at all with role revealing next day phase
[2019-05-29 13:10:34] shockcannon: even if that puts GN at greater risk
[2019-05-29 13:11:20] shockcannon: the issue is if GN doesn't adapt gameplay after that point
[2019-05-29 13:11:21] MasterWalks: ‹@Linkcat› ‹@ddevans96› Pick is post apart
[2019-05-29 13:11:31] shockcannon: and just stays silent and hopes not to die
[2019-05-29 13:11:55] MasterWalks: ‹@shockcannon› Wait, so you want GN to roleclaim D3 and die N3?
[2019-05-29 13:12:09] shockcannon: no
[2019-05-29 13:12:13] MasterWalks: because that will be mafia's sole target if Gn reveals
[2019-05-29 13:12:15] shockcannon: but i wouldn't be opposed to it either
[2019-05-29 13:12:19] shockcannon: imo
[2019-05-29 13:12:34] shockcannon: if GN ever knows the identity of 3 other alive players they should reveal no matter what
[2019-05-29 13:12:39] shockcannon: with themselves
[2019-05-29 13:12:44] shockcannon: that would instantly confirm 4 people
[2019-05-29 13:12:51] shockcannon: we should be able to win off that
[2019-05-29 13:13:00] MasterWalks: You want GN to name drop townies too?
[2019-05-29 13:13:06] MasterWalks: thats a terrible idea
[2019-05-29 13:13:09] shockcannon: yes
[2019-05-29 13:13:13] shockcannon: no its not
[2019-05-29 13:13:17] shockcannon: mafia already knows all the townies
[2019-05-29 13:13:22] shockcannon: we need townies to know the townies
[2019-05-29 13:13:31] shockcannon: i'm actually going to post that
[2019-05-29 13:14:37] MasterWalks: is my math wrong or if GN reveals their targets next day, they will only have 2 targeted people? Since GN is EoR i guess
[2019-05-29 13:15:59] shockcannon: i think GN should probably wait until day 5
[2019-05-29 13:16:13] shockcannon: assuming all their targets remained alive on day 5
[2019-05-29 13:16:24] MasterWalks: I still dont think they will survive past N3.
[2019-05-29 13:16:43] MasterWalks: If Psion reveals Oty, then that will be some good info

I like breaking these into bite-sized segments
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 29, 2019, 01:13:42 pm
Been busy all day.

Quote
Move to kaempfer with me if you're town, dd.
Hold on I can play this game too

Move to [insert personal scumread here] with me if you're town, Link

Not a game, it's just phrasing I picked up from Mafia Universe.

This talk of orchestrating is silly. The only way to orchestrate a lynch is through the use of PMs, so with PMs banned it would have to be a mafia telling his team to vote right after them, which is an insanely bad play. Anything else is just pushing a lynch like normal. Of course dd is going to push a lynch on whoever he can Day 1, he's trying not to die. He happened to get some steam on his scumread today, but he'll take anyone if they end up with more votes than him. That's how you're supposed to play.

[10:27:52] ‹MasterWalks› hes going to cherry pick everyone's comments about him and dissect them until they are irrelevant like he has been doing.

This is also what you're supposed to do. It's called engaging with points.

Mafia will prioritize Warding information roles, so they really don't have much reason to Ward dd.

[11:21:11] ‹MasterWalks› @Linkcat
[11:21:37] ‹MasterWalks› Whats your read on kaempf after his response? Still getting scum?

His response isn't relevant to my read.

I agree GN should claim if they get three living checks.

Otyugh makes sense as Fate Egg town, Fate Egg mafia, or Otyugh town.

As for shock's plan, revealing is a terrible idea. The more information the mafia has, the easier it is for them to control the game. Public information does not help town as much as you think it does. We'd basically be handing over the game on a silver platter.

Since apparently nobody wants to help me lynch my actual scumread, I'll have to put my vote on my neutral read dd to protect my town read Insig.

ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - ddevans96, dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (2) - Espithel, Mobian
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 05:44:46 pm
Lynching me is probably the worst play you could make. I'm clearly a town lean, and lynching me is exactly what mafia wants. They're laughing in their castle right now, I guarantee it.

Regardless, I don't think I can O R C H E S T R A T E my survival another night, so here's a checklist:

1) Pressure shock immediately. I supported his gambit thinking he might be GN - mafia has zero reason to NK the village idiot, so that's actually phenomenal cover, and a few little things lined up. Given the nature of his plan, I'm beginning to think otherwise. Could still be town Psion, but I have a neutral read now and he's probably outlived his usefulness.

2) Speaking of shock's plan, I advise against it. If it's not obvious, my post last night wasn't serious.

3) Go through the thread and find every instance of someone saying 'one/two of X is mafia/town' - parse through those, find some common threads, and start lynching them. Additionally, add 'one of Link/MW/kae' to that pile. Additionally, pay attention to the people who voted for me in both rounds (whether that be final vote or otherwise) - that's also a pile you need to look at.

Just be aware that the person in the most of these piles could still be town. Line all of that information up with your current reads. You'll start getting somewhere.

4) Try not to lynch another person for playing like town should. If you don't understand how town should play, talk to Link or Root, and here's (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=A_Beginner%27s_Guide_to_Being_Awesome_At_Mafia#As_Town) a really neat guide for that (and everything else in this game).
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 05:58:12 pm
ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, shockcannon, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (3) - Espithel, Mobian, ddevans96

May as well.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:02:19 pm
ddevans96 (4) - Calindu, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, ddevans96, shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 29, 2019, 06:06:41 pm
ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, ddevans96, shockcannon

better than no lynch i think
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:08:03 pm
ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (3) - Espithel, Mobian, ddevans96
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:12:47 pm
ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (3) - Espithel, Mobian
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:13:42 pm
Ignore quote - numbers are 5 for me and IW, 2 for Mobian, 3 for iancu.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 29, 2019, 06:14:33 pm
ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (6) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon, ddevans96, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (3) - Espithel, Mobian

Insig is neutral but chaotic for me. dd is town lean with a lot of information attached to his lynch. But I'll give you an out.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:15:58 pm
ddevans96 (5) - Calindu, MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, ddevans96, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (3) - Espithel, Mobian, shockcannon


Sorry, Insig is definitely not dying today. If anyone has to go it's probably going to be ddevans.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:16:20 pm
I'm being asked to roleclaim repeatedly, so yeah, I'll go for it.

I'm Anubis. I haven't used my ability yet.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 29, 2019, 06:17:18 pm
Yeah I'm Warden.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 29, 2019, 06:18:00 pm
All the info I have was already revealed earlier.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 29, 2019, 06:19:08 pm
ddevans96 (4) - MasterWalks, InsignificantWeeaboo, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, ddevans96, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, shockcannon, Calindu

Resetting the timer.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 29, 2019, 06:19:49 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, ddevans96, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, shockcannon, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo

If it means I live, sure.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:20:59 pm
I think we REALLY should go for a no lynch here. We need time to sort out info and I now think there's a chance that all the people we have up for votes are all town.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:21:22 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (6) - Espithel, Mobian, shockcannon, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:22:13 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi, shockcannon
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 29, 2019, 06:26:43 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 29, 2019, 06:27:11 pm
EBWOP

ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:28:18 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 29, 2019, 06:30:47 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon
Mobian (3) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101, Calindu
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi

Resetting timer again.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:33:00 pm
ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:34:58 pm
ddevans96 (4) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:35:37 pm
ebwop:

ddevans96 (3) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, shockcannon, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:36:11 pm
ignore last ebwop, shock's vote is current.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:38:39 pm
ddevans96 (4) - MasterWalks, Linkcat, kaempfer13, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 06:41:08 pm
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, kaempfer13, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (3) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (6) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96, MasterWalks,
RootRanger (1) - moehrpi
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:43:03 pm
Guys, like 30% of the reason I think ian was mafia relied on ddevans. But if we really think ddevans is town, then ian might turn up something that we didn't want to see on the dead list.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:44:44 pm
Guys, like 30% of the reason I think ian was mafia relied on ddevans. But if we really think ddevans is town, then ian might turn up something that we didn't want to see on the dead list.

You were hinting towards iancu being mafia long before there was any interaction between me and him.

This post is bunk.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 29, 2019, 06:45:09 pm
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, kaempfer13, shockcannon
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (6) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96, MasterWalks,
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:47:37 pm
Alright, I didn't want to do this.

I'm golden nymph. Ian is town.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 06:48:00 pm
ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (6) - Espithel, Mobian, Calindu, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96, MasterWalks,
no lynch (1) - shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 29, 2019, 06:48:36 pm
ddevans96 (3) - Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi, Calindu
Mobian (2) - Iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, InsignificantWeeaboo, ddevans96, MasterWalks
no lynch(1) - shockcannon

I guess a reset is needed at this point.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 29, 2019, 06:49:33 pm
Shock literally isn't GN.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 06:50:12 pm
ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (6) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi, Calindu, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (4) - Espithel, Mobian, InsignificantWeeaboo,  MasterWalks
No Lynch (1) - shockcannon

Totally normal game here.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 06:51:24 pm
Alright, I didn't want to do this.

I'm golden nymph. Ian is town.

Yesterday i learned GN is EoR; so what night did you target him? If it was N0, youve been pushing for lynch on a town. If it was N1 your dumb and didnt use your ability on N0.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 29, 2019, 06:52:45 pm
I also want to comment that whoever is the actual Golden Nymph, please refrain from counterclaiming. No one is taking shock's claim seriously, and we don't want our actual Golden Nymph to be outed.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 29, 2019, 06:53:02 pm
ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, InsignificantWeeaboo,  MasterWalks
No Lynch (1) - shockcannon

Shock being GN doesn't make much sense at all.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 29, 2019, 06:55:29 pm
EBWOP:

ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (5) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, RootRanger, moehrpi, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (5) - Espithel, Mobian, InsignificantWeeaboo,  MasterWalks, Calindu
No Lynch (1) - shockcannon

Forgot to add my vote.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 29, 2019, 06:57:42 pm
I'm only doing this because a no lynch would be absolutely terrible right now.

ddevans96 (2) - Linkcat, kaempfer13
InsignificantWeeaboo (4) - dawn to dusk, immortal feud, moehrpi, ddevans96
Mobian (2) - iancudorinmarian, mathman101
iancudorinmarian (6) - Espithel, Mobian, InsignificantWeeaboo,  MasterWalks, Calindu, RootRanger
No Lynch (1) - shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 29, 2019, 07:03:24 pm
Night 2

iancudorinmarian died. He was an Elemental and an Otyugh.

IMPORTANT NOTES!

Day 2 has ended.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 29, 2019, 07:09:36 pm
So the chat logs are a lot but the main info is that we think ian was likely a Fate Egg, since it wouldn't make sense for a true Otyugh to use his ability on N0.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: iancudorinmarian on May 29, 2019, 07:13:10 pm
What the hell?????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 29, 2019, 07:28:16 pm
ian probably assumed ga, because oty failed to connect (is the message for getting directly blocked and the target immune different?)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 29, 2019, 07:49:43 pm
Someone please post the super long chatlog.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 29, 2019, 07:57:24 pm
Here is the chatlog dump from before the Night phase ended. The timer was delayed a full hour, which I find incredible.

Note: Guest-MindFlayer is Submachine, Guest-MinorVampire is shock, Guest-Deathstalker is not playing.

[16:18:16] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Thanks.
[16:19:44] ‹schaj5› Should've destroyed more of your sundials
[16:20:18] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Yeah, that probably would have helped.
[16:20:25] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› anyways, searching for next
[16:24:56] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› gg
[16:25:09] ‹schaj5› Yeah I was pretty sure you wanted to throw weapons on me.
[16:27:58] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› searching for next
[16:27:59] ‹schaj5› So thank you. I have to go.
[16:28:09] ‹Wyand›
[16:28:34] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› No problem, see you later
[16:32:22] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[17:10:33] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[17:11:02] ‹Submachine›
[17:32:11] ‹Calindu›
[17:34:28] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[17:50:28] ‹moehrpi› It's time for some end-of-day mafia drama.
[17:50:50] ‹moehrpi›
[17:50:50] ‹Mobian› Yay drama!
[17:51:17] ‹moehrpi› It's not looking good for you, Link. :S
[17:55:03] ‹Mobian› Link doesn't have any votes on him yet
[17:56:35] ‹Submachine› Who will be lynched - dd, Insig, or someone else? Take your bets! :sillyspin:
[18:02:42] ‹Mobian› What to do, what to do?
[18:03:22] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[18:26:39] ‹ARTHANASIOS› /ρολλ
[18:26:42] ‹ARTHANASIOS› roll
[18:26:45] ‹ARTHANASIOS›
[18:26:50] ‹ARTHANASIOS› troll!
[18:29:08] ‹ARTHANASIOS› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› 12 lives?
[18:29:17] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Sure
[18:29:48] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ready g1
[18:31:02] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[18:31:03] ‹ARTHANASIOS› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› searching
[18:31:51] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› When does mag day end
[18:35:38] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Mafia ends in 1h25.
[18:48:38] ‹Wyand›
[18:54:31] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[19:21:46] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[19:23:35] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Dang insig with full meta
[19:24:35] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Wouldn't call Time Rush meta...
[19:25:25] ‹Mobian› Shock, you got any last minute plays up your sleeve?
[19:26:34] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Isn’t arthas change invalid
[19:26:37] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Cause he didn’t win w air
[19:30:26] ‹Mobian› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› yup
[19:43:44] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› [19:41:18] moehrpi joined. [19:41:36] moehrpi joined. [19:41:48] moehrpi joined.
[19:43:51] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› That's some black magic right there.
[19:45:26] ‹ddevans96› *sigh*
[19:45:35] ‹ddevans96› this was shaping up to be one of my best town games ever
[19:46:29] ‹ddevans96› anyone that can be convinced to vote on IW?
[19:47:35] ‹ddevans96› moehrpi, kaempfer: neither of you have voted yet, there's still time to save me
[19:49:07] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[19:49:11] ‹ddevans96› Espithel too, your vote is neutral atm
[19:52:03] ‹moehrpi› I am not sure I want to. Your lynch obviously gives a lot of information but it's hard to tell if losing a role is worth it.
[19:52:21] ‹moehrpi› I'd be down to lynch coffe/math, though.
[19:52:56] ‹moehrpi› I didn't ask Sub about modkills so I don't know if it makes any sense to waste a lynch and not get any information.
[19:52:56] ‹ddevans96› I don't think we can swing a vote onto anyone but Mobian and iancu
[19:53:03] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@ddevans96› out of weeb and you id rather get you out of the way; people will tunnel on you every round and nothing else gets discussed
[19:53:19] ‹ddevans96› just ignore MW the way you ignore shock
[19:53:20] ‹ddevans96› tbh
[19:53:21] ‹moehrpi› I am fairly sure Mobian is town.
[19:53:27] ‹kaempfer13› unless someone confirms weeb lied about his role
[19:53:39] ‹ddevans96› yeah, so do I - I'm town lean for both him and iancu
[19:53:57] ‹ddevans96› so there's pretty much no way for me to live unless we kill IW
[19:54:04] ‹kaempfer13› mobian is actually my strongest townread rn, albeit hes playing it poorly
[19:54:06] ‹moehrpi› Your 'info dump' / advice let's me think you lean town, again.
[19:54:27] ‹ddevans96› it's just frustrating because this is the best early-game I've played as town in years, lol
[19:55:24] ‹moehrpi› I highly agree with kae's 'people will tunnel on you every round'.
[19:55:35] ‹ddevans96› just MW, really
[19:55:41] ‹ddevans96› and again - ignore him like you would shock
[19:55:59] ‹moehrpi› That's what I also mentioned when I said redirecting a lynch to a town GA always looks suspicious.
[19:56:26] ‹ddevans96› even if I was mafia, there's no way I could have known jcj was GA
[19:56:53] ‹moehrpi› iancu also claimed an important role? I tend to give people the benefit of a doubt..
[19:56:55] ‹ddevans96› unless we got Psion
[19:57:00] ‹kaempfer13› pms from teammates with rolereveal
[19:57:13] ‹moehrpi› I can't tell how much info insig can gather.
[19:57:14] ‹ddevans96› and even then - that only worked bc he already had votes on hi,m
[19:57:22] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I’ll switch my vote off ddevans if ddevans votes for ian
[19:57:23] ‹ddevans96› what are the chances of all of that lining up?
[19:58:14] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Aaaaaaaa this is fun
[19:58:16] ‹ddevans96› done
[19:58:41] ‹ddevans96› someone else would have to vote on iancu, though
[19:58:46] ‹ddevans96› and he's a town lean for most people
[19:59:01] ‹ddevans96› otherwise it's tied
[19:59:12] ‹ddevans96› assuming you move your vote to him
[20:00:04] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› He played you :sillyspin:
[20:00:17] ‹ddevans96› I mean...no
[20:00:25] ‹ddevans96› it's my best chance to survive
[20:00:39] ‹ddevans96› and I only think iancu is town, I know I'm town - so that's always the play
[20:01:21] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I mean, he won’t change his vote :sillyspin:
[20:01:23] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› you have to vote like now to keep the timer alive
[20:01:36] ‹ddevans96› can you shut up? you aren't playing
[20:01:41] ‹ddevans96› seriously. just bystand. jfc
[20:02:27] ‹ddevans96› there's literally no reason for me NOT to do it
[20:03:10] ‹ddevans96› ‹@shockcannon› merci <3
[20:03:25] ‹shockcannon› im personally hoping for no lynch
[20:03:26] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› I feel like the hecking reaper just by having this post ready, with dd's name and role typed in already...
[20:03:30] ‹shockcannon› lets see what happens
[20:04:08] ‹kaempfer13› given that i dont agree with no lynch ill vote dd out of those 2 before timer ends if needed
[20:04:21] ‹ddevans96› I'll take no lynch over lynching me, obviously
[20:04:37] ‹kaempfer13› nothing personal
[20:05:21] ‹ddevans96› you'll get lynched tomorrow, then - you'll be the vote that hammered a town
[20:05:31] ‹ddevans96› and you're already a lowkey popular lynch target
[20:06:21] ‹kaempfer13› going for no lynch speaks for being mafia/bad unless you know more
[20:06:40] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Test
[20:06:51] ‹ddevans96› I mean, I know I'm town, so for me, it's lynching a town over not lynching a town
[20:06:53] ‹ddevans96› pretty basic stuff
[20:07:04] ‹Calindu› I'm not sure about ian either, I'd rather lynch him than have a no lynch
[20:07:11] ‹ddevans96› please go for it
[20:07:16] ‹ddevans96› like now
[20:07:18] ‹ddevans96› before timer stops
[20:07:25] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Kaemp voted already
[20:07:29] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Another 5 mins
[20:07:32] ‹Calindu› Kae already voted on you though
[20:07:33] ‹ddevans96› oh nvm, kaempfer reset
[20:07:42] ‹ddevans96› *sigh*
[20:07:46] ‹ddevans96› such a huge mistake, honestly
[20:07:47] ‹kaempfer13› cal can make it a tie again i guess
[20:07:52] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› These votes are really cutting it close.
[20:08:02] ‹ddevans96› no, Cal would move the vote to iancu
[20:08:06] ‹ddevans96› bc his vote is currently on me
[20:08:22] ‹kaempfer13› this will be how it is every round dd is alive if things continue
[20:08:24] ‹ddevans96› so it comes down to who he's rather lynch
[20:08:24] ‹Calindu› I'm not even sure what to think anymore now, I believe both you and ian are mafia, the way I see it
[20:08:40] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Shock voted
[20:08:41] ‹kaempfer13› oh yh, so he can make the call
[20:09:07] ‹ddevans96› ‹@kaempfer13› no, it won't be
[20:09:08] ‹Calindu› Ok, I don't see any reason to lynch IW, so this is off the table now
[20:09:19] ‹ddevans96› 1) just start ignoring MW, seriously. he's shock lite
[20:09:37] ‹ddevans96› 2) if I was mafia, we'd be absolutely stupid to save me two nights in a row
[20:09:51] ‹ddevans96› everyone involved in saving me would come under extreme suspicion, and many of those would be mafia
[20:09:53] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:10:04] ‹ddevans96› if I'm mafia, the smart play is to let me die rn
[20:10:24] ‹ddevans96› you're just making excuses for MW's bad play if you lynch bc 'this will happen every round'
[20:10:46] ‹shockcannon› timers ticking
[20:11:16] ‹kaempfer13› yh, but since i dont know if y ou are mafia you could still be it
[20:11:33] ‹ddevans96› there is zero chance I'm mafia if I live today
[20:11:40] ‹Calindu› I don't want to lynch another absent person, this just blocks any information dump if they want to do it to save themselves
[20:11:46] ‹shockcannon› lol that's stupidly false
[20:11:50] ‹shockcannon› but ok
[20:12:02] ‹ddevans96› I literally detailed above
[20:12:09] ‹ddevans96› that would be the worst play mafia could make
[20:12:10] ‹ddevans96› bar none
[20:12:12] ‹moehrpi› ‹@shockcannon› Why did you revert to Insig?
[20:12:17] ‹shockcannon› ‹@ddevans96› dude
[20:12:22] ‹shockcannon› i'm literally giving you a chance to live
[20:12:25] ‹shockcannon› you have like 30 seconds
[20:12:26] ‹kaempfer13› only espithel matches with your saving votes last round, so mafia not saving you this time confirmed
[20:12:36] ‹Wyand›
[20:13:07] ‹shockcannon›
[20:13:09] ‹kaempfer13› that does make it more likely you are mafia though
[20:13:33] ‹shockcannon› alright now that we have a timer reset
[20:13:45] ‹shockcannon› ‹@ddevans96› i think you should role reveal before you die
[20:13:48] ‹shockcannon› may actually save you
[20:13:52] ‹ddevans96› if I'm about to die, sure
[20:13:56] ‹shockcannon› because I think you're going to die if you dont say anything
[20:14:03] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Time is up, but I am confused by that quote.
[20:14:06] ‹kaempfer13› yep give us everything you have
[20:14:09] ‹shockcannon› i dont think I can maintain this tie vote
[20:14:11] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› It’s not up sub
[20:14:17] ‹ddevans96› time is...not up?
[20:14:19] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› SD just forgot numbers, another 5 mins
[20:14:19] ‹ddevans96› that's a vote
[20:14:23] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Dd*
[20:14:29] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› He voted inside the quote.
[20:14:36] ‹kaempfer13› can i move my vote back and forth just to give you time for the reveal?
[20:14:47] ‹Calindu› Reveal and info dump, maybe someone can confirm
[20:14:53] ‹shockcannon› ‹@ddevans96› you gotta give us something
[20:14:58] ‹shockcannon› either role
[20:14:59] ‹shockcannon› or something else
[20:15:03] ‹shockcannon› but people gonna lynch you
[20:15:07] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› FWIW, moe voted.
[20:15:07] ‹shockcannon› I dont think I can save you
[20:15:13] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› dd just quoted the last post? I can only give 1 extra minute.
[20:15:17] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› For a vote correction etc.
[20:15:27] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Deadline is hour:16.
[20:15:37] ‹ddevans96› it's not a vote correction
[20:15:37] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› ‹@Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› he changed the vote from Ian to IW
[20:15:42] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Plus moe just voted
[20:15:45] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› So another reset.
[20:15:45] ‹ddevans96› and then moer voted
[20:16:21] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Oh, right.
[20:16:24] ‹kaempfer13› insig anything you can give us, you are about to die now
[20:16:28] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› The numbers were not updated.
[20:16:31] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› The timer goes on.
[20:16:36] ‹ddevans96› yeah, I clarified in the following post
[20:17:01] ‹ddevans96› I thought I had less time than I did, miscounted by a minute
[20:17:06] ‹kaempfer13› unfortunately role reveal isomething you already did
[20:17:20] ‹Calindu› Why wouldn't you protect yourself as Anubis?
[20:17:37] ‹ddevans96› because then I can't be targeted by -anything-
[20:17:48] ‹ddevans96› that includes investigative roles
[20:17:54] ‹ddevans96› it looks scummy to use early
[20:17:58] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@ddevans96› have a tab with an infodumbpost ready
[20:18:14] ‹ddevans96› I already gave my info dump, lol
[20:18:18] ‹ddevans96› unless you want detailed scumreads
[20:18:38] ‹Calindu› I'll reset the timer
[20:18:56] ‹ddevans96› for scumreads?
[20:18:57] ‹shockcannon› honestly
[20:18:59] ‹shockcannon› with that info
[20:19:02] ‹shockcannon› i think we go no lynch today
[20:19:05] ‹shockcannon› or lynch on ian
[20:19:20] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@ddevans96› role?
[20:19:30] ‹ddevans96› ANUBIS
[20:19:32] ‹ddevans96› READ THE THREAD
[20:19:38] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› immaterial me next night and I'll change vote
[20:19:49] ‹Calindu› I'd take lynching ian over a no lynch, but I still believe it might not be the best play
[20:19:49] ‹ddevans96› or read chat, since Cal said it
[20:20:16] ‹ddevans96› and yeah, I prefer iancu lynch to no lynch as well
[20:20:59] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Anyone who's voting me, I'll target a person of your choosing if you move your vote to literally anyone
[20:21:18] ‹shockcannon› i've taken a 180
[20:21:19] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Can't guarantee it will be next night, though
[20:21:27] ‹shockcannon› i think ian, ddevans, and insig may all be town
[20:21:28] ‹ddevans96› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› my vote is off you
[20:21:34] ‹shockcannon› I don't think its worth lynching
[20:21:37] ‹ddevans96› it's now iancu 6, IW 4, me 3
[20:21:43] ‹MasterWalks› Yes or no dd
[20:21:51] ‹Calindu› With that Anubis claim I believe dd might be town as well
[20:21:55] ‹kaempfer13› ah that one was eaten by the votes so I didnt see
[20:22:03] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› Can I trade vote for immortality? :silly:
[20:22:11] ‹Calindu› It makes sense, you would definitely target yourself as Anubis if you were mafia
[20:22:17] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ‹@ddevans96› Ok. Who would you like me to block?
[20:22:18] ‹kaempfer13› damn no infodumb from iancu though
[20:22:25] ‹ddevans96› I'm not using this garbage ability on anyone unless I'm very sure they're town
[20:22:50] ‹shockcannon› we need iancu info
[20:22:54] ‹shockcannon› we can't lynch him blindly
[20:23:08] ‹shockcannon› seriously guys
[20:23:08] ‹Calindu› If any of the fireflies can confirm dd not using his ability N0, that would be great
[20:23:10] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Voting No Lynch is an option.
[20:23:11] ‹shockcannon› trust me on this one and go no lynch
[20:23:14] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› But time is ticking.
[20:23:24] ‹ddevans96› I already caught a Firefly n0
[20:23:27] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Not like he can get on here and infodump in time though
[20:23:35] ‹MasterWalks› We should not no lynch
[20:24:03] ‹Calindu› Lynching ian is stupid, since he's absent, I don't want a repeat of D1 where JCJ couldn't even defend himself
[20:24:09] ‹Calindu› But no lynch is even worse
[20:24:12] ‹ddevans96› I have like 10 tabs of this game open, aaaaaa
[20:24:21] ‹Calindu› ‹@ddevans96› Yeah, if someone can confirm that, that would be great
[20:24:47] ‹ddevans96› fair
[20:24:58] ‹kaempfer13› damn, we need ians info and insig is probably town so long as we dont have evidence of him lying
[20:25:29] ‹ddevans96› I don't think I can legally swap back to IW immediately
[20:25:34] ‹ddevans96› so I can vote Mobian to reset timer
[20:25:39] ‹ddevans96› or anyone else
[20:25:43] ‹shockcannon› has ian claimed anything
[20:25:52] ‹moehrpi› We could always let dd orchestrate a lynch on Root. :)
[20:26:01] ‹kaempfer13› not being able to do anything
[20:26:02] ‹Calindu› ‹@shockcannon› No, he just claimed he can gather info
[20:26:08] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Give him a conductor's rod
[20:26:12] ‹kaempfer13› is what he claimed
[20:26:15] ‹shockcannon› so info role?
[20:26:16] ‹ddevans96› O R C H E S T R A T E
[20:26:18] ‹shockcannon› did he really say that?
[20:26:21] ‹shockcannon› wait ddevans
[20:26:24] ‹Calindu› Resetting timer again
[20:26:26] ‹ddevans96› ye?
[20:26:30] ‹shockcannon› you didnt use it at all?
[20:26:32] ‹shockcannon› anubis?
[20:26:44] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Calindu›
[20:26:44] ‹ddevans96› nope. we agreed it was scummy to use early game
[20:26:45] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Calindu›
[20:26:50] ‹ddevans96› and I agree
[20:26:56] ‹shockcannon› GOSH DANG IT
[20:27:10] ‹Calindu› ‹@shockcannon› ?
[20:27:20] ‹shockcannon› i was trying to distract you
[20:27:24] ‹shockcannon› so timer didnt reset
[20:27:27] ‹shockcannon› but moehrpi
[20:27:28] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Should someone ping ian on Discord to infodump?
[20:27:38] ‹kaempfer13› is removing votes a thing or does it have to be moved?
[20:27:40] ‹moehrpi› ‹@shockcannon› No lynch is not an option
[20:27:49] ‹shockcannon› it really is
[20:28:04] ‹moehrpi› Espi did remove earlier without voting 'no-lych' iirc.
[20:28:26] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Moe's EBWOP does not count as a timer reset.
[20:28:30] ‹shockcannon› lol wrong button
[20:28:31] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› But his original vote does.
[20:28:41] ‹ddevans96› pinged on discord
[20:29:02] ‹Calindu› I can reset timer again if needed
[20:29:02] ‹shockcannon› my post means nothing
[20:29:32] ‹MasterWalks› Wait, so are we extending to give Ian time to info dump?
[20:29:36] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› shock's post is also a repeat, so that didn't reset timer either
[20:29:38] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› This must be quite an even t for you.
[20:29:38] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Yeah
[20:29:41] ‹MasterWalks› I'm on mobile so kinda hard to follow
[20:29:53] ‹ddevans96› yeah
[20:29:55] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ‹@moehrpi› It is an event alright.
[20:30:04] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:30:16] ‹shockcannon› honestly
[20:30:22] ‹shockcannon› nvm
[20:30:58] ‹Calindu› Timer reset
[20:32:14] ‹Calindu› Did ian respond?
[20:32:19] ‹ddevans96› what if shock wants us to NL bc he's mafia and one of his mates is up for the noose
[20:32:23] ‹ddevans96› not yet
[20:32:48] ‹kaempfer13› if someone claims insig lied i will vote for lynching him, otherwise i dunno what to do as ians infodumb would be important
[20:33:04] ‹ddevans96› reset vote
[20:33:18] ‹moehrpi› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› Didn't you guard iancu N1?
[20:33:24] ‹ddevans96› a bit early
[20:33:29] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› No, I didn
[20:33:32] ‹Calindu› Most people read IW as town
[20:33:36] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› 't target anyone N0
[20:33:57] ‹moehrpi› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› But last night?
[20:34:06] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Saw the "No roleblocking roles N0" and didn't realize Warden was an exception.
[20:34:12] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Last night I targetted DD
[20:34:15] ‹shockcannon› honestly
[20:34:17] ‹shockcannon› if ddevans is town
[20:34:20] ‹shockcannon› we're in trouble
[20:34:52] ‹ddevans96› (dd is town btw)
[20:34:52] ‹Calindu› If he is telling the truth about his role, then he is 90% town
[20:35:11] ‹ddevans96› wait. forums pls. I changed the number on iancu's vote
[20:35:13] ‹ddevans96› *sigh*
[20:35:59] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Rip shocks post
[20:36:08] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› shock reset the vote on my screen
[20:36:43] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› You really should pay respect to that warning.
[20:36:56] ‹ddevans96› it didn't show up for me
[20:37:32] ‹ddevans96› probably bc I have different tabs open
[20:37:37] ‹kaempfer13› that happened to me earlier as well
[20:37:44] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› When looking at the timer, remember that shock's vote is currently the last vote.
[20:38:07] ‹moehrpi› ian's dump would really help right about now. Otherwise shock is just going to mess up any lynch.
[20:38:24] ‹moehrpi› And I don't want to hammer anyone before that.
[20:38:25] ‹Calindu› This is a quote from ian's posts: "Anyway, tonight I'm going to need some protection to get some more info. @2nd GA, protect me tonight please. You know who you are."
[20:38:42] ‹Calindu› Didn't ian say he got role blocked twice?
[20:38:50] ‹ddevans96› I reset correctly this time, pog
[20:38:55] ‹Calindu› How can he even know if there is a 2nd GA
[20:39:13] ‹ddevans96› if he has an investigative role of some kind
[20:39:14] ‹moehrpi› ‹@Calindu› He might be mafia.
[20:39:19] ‹MasterWalks› ian might be psion and he might be maf
[20:39:22] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Probably an info role. Psion?
[20:39:24] ‹Calindu› But he claimed he got blocked twice
[20:39:28] ‹MasterWalks› lying about being blocked
[20:39:32] ‹moehrpi› ‹@ddevans96› Not if he is blocked continuously.
[20:39:42] ‹Calindu› When could he find that info if he's blocked
[20:39:54] ‹Calindu› Ian has no info dump if he has been telling the truth
[20:40:00] ‹moehrpi› Tbf, he didn't claim his info was obtained via his role.
[20:40:04] ‹ddevans96› so either he
[20:40:09] ‹ddevans96› he's lying or he has nothing?
[20:40:22] ‹Calindu› That's the way I see it now, yeah
[20:40:35] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Either he's bluffing about there being a 2nd GA or he's lying about being blocked
[20:40:40] ‹shockcannon› ironic that I called out ian day1
[20:40:46] ‹shockcannon› and now everyone all of sudden wants to lynch ian
[20:40:51] ‹shockcannon› and here I am trying not to lynch anyone
[20:41:06] ‹Calindu› Sure, there are chances he's lying about being blocked in order to protect a power role
[20:41:08] ‹kaempfer13› ok fair, ian it is
[20:41:13] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› If you put it that way, it is ironic.
[20:41:21] ‹shockcannon› it's almost as if I was ahead of all the townies
[20:41:36] ‹MasterWalks› dont get too far ahead of yourself there shock
[20:41:40] ‹shockcannon› and here I am, still ahead and telling people not to lynch
[20:41:49] ‹shockcannon› for reals guys
[20:41:51] ‹shockcannon› i've taken a 180
[20:41:58] ‹shockcannon› I think lynching ian right now might not work out
[20:42:25] ‹Calindu› ‹@shockcannon› How so?
[20:42:34] ‹kaempfer13› should i hammer him even harder or can we let sub post yet
[20:42:46] ‹RootRanger› so day is still going because people keep voting every 5 minutes?
[20:42:52] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Sub pushed for no lynch last time and he turned out to be mafia...
[20:42:57] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Wassup root
[20:43:11] ‹RootRanger› can we stop acting like shockcannon is anything other than random noise
[20:43:29] ‹ddevans96› yep - prevents vote sniping at the very end, and let's town come to a consensus like they would in hammer-based mafia
[20:43:49] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› We're trying to stall for an infodump by ian, but now we're wondering if it's worth it
[20:44:00] ‹shockcannon› The reason why I've been calling out ian all these past days when no one wanted to believe me is because I thought ddevans was also mafia
[20:44:12] ‹shockcannon› but the reason why you guys are voting up ian is because you think ddevans is town
[20:44:19] ‹RootRanger› "no one wanted to believe me"
[20:44:29] ‹kaempfer13› i am mostly pushing for lynches, it was the prime motivator of my vote, just said ian cant tell anything, but yh other than getting lastminute reads in we cant expect anything from him today anyway
[20:44:32] ‹RootRanger› yeah because you're making outrageous claims way beyond any info you could possibly have
[20:44:46] ‹RootRanger› you've never wanted to make yourself believable
[20:44:49] ‹Calindu› I find ian the most likely person to be mafia out of the 3 buses
[20:45:01] ‹Calindu› And no lynch doesn't help
[20:45:05] ‹shockcannon› outrageous claims?
[20:45:08] ‹kaempfer13› *sad*
[20:45:09] ‹shockcannon› literally ian is about to get lynched
[20:45:13] ‹shockcannon› and i'm not even one voting for him
[20:45:18] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Join in jcj
[20:45:20] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› This is fun
[20:45:27] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› am i allowed to say that this mafia is hilarious?
[20:45:30] ‹RootRanger› outrageous claims = "blah blah is 100% mafia, blah blah blah is 95% mafia, etc."
[20:45:34] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› I can talk about maf to you yay
[20:45:39] ‹RootRanger› you do not have that information. stop talking.
[20:45:40] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› oRcHeStRaTe
[20:45:47] ‹shockcannon› lol
[20:45:49] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Someone should post chat logs after the timer avoids being reset.
[20:45:55] ‹ddevans96› O R C H E S T R A T E B T W
[20:46:05] ‹RootRanger› also who are the guests
[20:46:21] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› <-- Sub
[20:46:24] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› deathstalker is www
[20:46:27] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Deathstalker is www3
[20:46:28] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› No idea who oty is
[20:46:33] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Wassup root
[20:46:38] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Oty is afk.
[20:46:43] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› so it doesn't matter to me :silly:
[20:46:49] ‹RootRanger› oki hey
[20:47:04] ‹RootRanger› Sub: are all these vote shenanigans considered stalling for time?
[20:47:16] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ‹@RootRanger› Confirmed.
[20:47:47] ‹Calindu› What the hell
[20:47:51] ‹RootRanger› As in, will the round end *only* when 5 minutes have passed without voting
[20:47:54] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› LOL
[20:47:55] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› SHOCK
[20:47:57] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› IM DEAD
[20:48:13] ‹RootRanger› or will it end if there is someone clearly with the most votes
[20:48:16] ‹ddevans96› lmao
[20:48:18] ‹shockcannon› fuck it
[20:48:25] ‹ddevans96› If I was right the whole time, and shock is GN
[20:48:29] ‹shockcannon› this is going down as the greatest mafia game ever
[20:48:31] ‹ddevans96› I'm going to die laughing
[20:48:37] ‹RootRanger› shock isn't GN
[20:48:41] ‹RootRanger› and no, it isn't going to
[20:48:41] ‹Guest-Mummy-9c15a› <-moe because he can't operate computers.
[20:48:45] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ROFL
[20:48:50] ‹RootRanger› it's just a normal game being derailed, again
[20:49:00] ‹Calindu› I reset the timer again
[20:49:11] ‹Calindu› 5 more minutes to process the new info
[20:49:46] ‹RootRanger› There is no new info
[20:49:55] ‹Calindu› Why would you push a lynch on ian if you are GN
[20:50:01] ‹Calindu› You probably investigated him N0
[20:50:02] ‹shockcannon› alright
[20:50:04] ‹shockcannon› i legit need to go
[20:50:07] ‹shockcannon› i really hope ian doesn't die
[20:50:15] ‹shockcannon› i strongly advise no lynch
[20:50:18] ‹shockcannon› but do what you want
[20:50:21] ‹shockcannon› i'm not reseting timer anymore
[20:50:22] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[20:50:29] ‹RootRanger› If he is genuinely GN, he's playing badly enough to be considered to be throwing the game
[20:50:46] ‹RootRanger› Lowkey I hope he is so this can be considered grounds for barring him from future mafias, but eh, he's probably just a normal civ
[20:50:47] ‹Calindu› I can't really trust shock either
[20:51:12] ‹Calindu› He pushed the ian lynch way too much for this to make sense
[20:51:29] ‹RootRanger› He literally just wants attention
[20:51:47] ‹RootRanger› I called him out for it last game but I'm no longer phoenix-god anymore, so voting on him this round didn't really do much
[20:51:53] ‹JonathanCrazyJ› hahaha
[20:51:55] ‹Calindu› Thoughts, everyone?
[20:52:10] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› I don't think any multiples of 90 can convince me...
[20:52:23] ‹MasterWalks› lol
[20:52:34] ‹ddevans96› honestly? I'm gonna choose to believe he's telling the truth and my hunch that he was GN was right. it probably isn't, but the thought of that scenario is hilarious
[20:53:44] ‹Calindu› ‹@ddevans96› How do you explain the aggressive push on ian, then?
[20:53:46] ‹RootRanger› So at this point I'm unsure if we even have a Psion, but if we do, and we find out that shock is lying about GN, can we pleaseeeeeeee lynch him the next day
[20:54:00] ‹ddevans96› shock being an idiot and a wildcard
[20:54:06] ‹ddevans96› literally, there is no logic with him
[20:54:19] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Calindu› did you mean to put your vote onto iancu?
[20:54:37] ‹ddevans96› bc his number was raised from 4 to 5
[20:54:37] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Please update the correct vote count.
[20:54:41] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Cal missed a number.
[20:54:59] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I wanted it on ian
[20:55:01] ‹Calindu› My bad
[20:55:37] ‹MasterWalks› ian isnt going to give us anything. i think we need to lynch someone and finish the day up
[20:55:51] ‹MasterWalks› he might if hes lynched
[20:56:02] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ‹@moehrpi› Responding to your earlier question again, yeah, this certainly is an event.
[20:56:03] ‹RootRanger› @Calindu what was your opposition to IW?
[20:56:06] ‹MasterWalks› but hes not going to give us any info to prevent lynch i bet
[20:56:21] ‹RootRanger› ian has also told us all he can
[20:56:23] ‹RootRanger› He was roleblocked twice
[20:56:30] ‹RootRanger› Whatever role he is, he hasn't gotten info out of it
[20:56:33] ‹RootRanger› All he would have is hunches
[20:56:39] ‹Calindu› ‹@RootRanger› I don't think he's mafia, him guarding dd as mafia doesn't make that much sense
[20:56:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› why is your vote still on insig?
[20:56:59] ‹MasterWalks› you still think he is mafia
[20:57:03] ‹ddevans96› bc I moved it back
[20:57:06] ‹Calindu› I posted this about 20 minutes ago: [19:38:25] ‹Calindu› This is a quote from ian's posts: "Anyway, tonight I'm going to need some protection to get some more info. @2nd GA, protect me tonight please. You know who you are."
[20:57:35] ‹MasterWalks› because you think hes maf or to extend timer?
[20:57:44] ‹ddevans96› timer
[20:57:57] ‹Calindu› Ian being roleblocked twice means ian has no idea if there is a 2nd GA
[20:57:58] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› we need a ruling on Cal's votes
[20:58:09] ‹RootRanger› Aye
[20:58:15] ‹ddevans96› bc the correction that actually shows his vote was after the 5-minute mark
[20:58:17] ‹RootRanger› ian and shock are both not making sense
[20:58:29] ‹RootRanger› which normally i'd attribute to being mafia, but that's also how they played last game so idk
[20:58:30] ‹ddevans96› I bet iancu and shock are both mafia
[20:58:34] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› If I do end up making out of this alive, someone protecc me plz
[20:58:47] ‹RootRanger› so the one upside to the ian lynch is that it's a 2-for-1 if we're correct
[20:58:48] ‹Calindu› ‹@ddevans96› I did update 2 numbers, and everyone understood that I wanted to vote on ian
[20:59:02] ‹RootRanger› as in, the best case is that we kill 2 mafia, the worst case is that we kill 2 civs
[20:59:37] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@RootRanger› shouldnt mafia making more sense be logical?
[20:59:56] ‹RootRanger› So the basic idea is that mafia is forced to lie while civs are not
[20:59:56] ‹ddevans96› yeah, the intent was clear
[21:00:00] ‹ddevans96› so I think it should be fine
[21:00:04] ‹kaempfer13› bc they know so much more and can tell each other what to do
[21:00:06] ‹RootRanger› Which means civs should have no difficulty making sense, but it's harder for mafia
[21:00:21] ‹RootRanger› The problem with *Elements* mafia is that half the players have difficulty making sense regardless of alignment
[21:00:48] ‹RootRanger› God this is making me vile lol
[21:00:57] ‹RootRanger› I'm just annoyed at shock for ruining the game
[21:01:00] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@RootRanger› the problem of assuming everyone is perfectly logical
[21:01:07] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Pls join next mafia everyone. I want to play in one. Kthnx
[21:01:12] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› We passed the 1 hour mark!
[21:01:14] ‹RootRanger› They are, for the right games
[21:01:18] ‹ddevans96› I don't think the game is ruined, tbh
[21:01:19] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› The votes have been reset for a full hour.
[21:01:21] ‹RootRanger› Or with the right groups
[21:01:22] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Just incredible.
[21:01:35] ‹ddevans96› it's just someone playing as chaotic as possible
[21:01:35] ‹RootRanger› It's not ruined, it's just...worse
[21:01:48] ‹moehrpi› Guess iancu dies without a dump.
[21:02:04] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› S-H-I-T
[21:02:06] ‹RootRanger› He dumped everything as is
[21:02:08] ‹Calindu› I don't think there's any info dump
[21:02:10] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› You know what will
[21:02:11] ‹RootRanger› He was roleblocked twice
[21:02:18] ‹RootRanger› He has no hard info
[21:02:46] ‹kaempfer13› although in my case it was mostly just not thinking far enough and going of the 2 premises that town talks and town doesnt hinder each other that my odd behaviour stemmed from
[21:02:47] ‹moehrpi› ‹@RootRanger› dd only claimed his role and people moved their votes away from him.
[21:02:48] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Time up?
[21:02:51] ‹ddevans96› day is now over, if I'm not mistaken
[21:02:59] ‹RootRanger› Yeah, time's up
[21:03:10] ‹ddevans96› wow, this was intense
[21:03:16] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ^
[21:03:27] ‹moehrpi› ggwp everyone.
[21:03:31] ‹ddevans96› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› we live another day - rejoice
[21:03:35] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› LOL
[21:03:37] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› AHAHAHAHAHA
[21:03:38] ‹RootRanger› iancu was all 4 of the mafia using one account, we won
[21:03:39] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› THIS IS FUNNY
[21:03:41] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Post first part of chatlogs.
[21:03:43] ‹Calindu› Oh, rip
[21:03:54] ‹Espithel› Oh.
[21:03:54] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› vagman was the mafia all along
[21:03:55] ‹kaempfer13› and ian was town psion, gj
[21:04:04] ‹Espithel› Oh FUCK it's end of phase already?
[21:04:08] ‹Calindu› He was Oty
[21:04:12] ‹Espithel› I thought that was tomorrow
[21:04:12] ‹kaempfer13› well almost
[21:04:21] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Oh shit we found confirmed oty
[21:04:32] ‹RootRanger› Why the fuck was he trying to use his ability on N0
[21:04:32] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› too bad he was town tho
[21:04:38] ‹RootRanger› sry for profanity but COME ON buddy
[21:04:45] ‹RootRanger› Oh hi ian
[21:04:45] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ‹@iancudorinmarian› bruh
[21:04:46] ‹MasterWalks› well we lynched scum town
[21:04:51] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Ahaha was
[21:04:55] ‹kaempfer13› alright that makes insig indirectly suspicious for potentially framing an oty
[21:05:00] ‹RootRanger› Nothing personal, aye?
[21:05:03] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› shit
[21:05:04] ‹Calindu› If Fate Egg dies, does it flip Fate Egg, or the ability of that night?
[21:05:21] ‹RootRanger› Ah calin is asking the right questions
[21:05:24] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› It flips Fate Egg. That's what happened when I died last round
[21:05:29] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› *last mafia
[21:05:29] ‹MasterWalks› fate egg still reveals as fate egg and the role it had
[21:05:31] ‹RootRanger› That would actually explain a lot
[21:05:36] ‹RootRanger› Oh :/ right
[21:05:36] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› It is different.
[21:05:39] ‹ddevans96› 'you are disguised as that role if investigated or revealed. '
[21:05:47] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Read the role description.
[21:05:55] ‹ddevans96› so I would bet good money that the FE/Oty theory is correct
[21:06:50] ‹RootRanger› do we think he was lying about being roleblocked to try to draw out info?
[21:07:00] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› holy shit day 2 lasted 13 pages
[21:07:13] ‹ddevans96› he could have been
[21:07:14] ‹RootRanger› Oh wow
[21:07:17] ‹RootRanger› So he was FE
[21:07:19] ‹RootRanger› likely
[21:07:35] ‹ddevans96› that seems to make the most sense
[21:08:06] ‹Calindu› Him being Oty and trying to use that ability makes no sense, so most likely he was FE
[21:08:23] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› im not sure if someone asked yet, but what exactly were you trying to achieve by revealing dd was targeted by oty?
[21:08:58] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› Basically to confirm we have an Oty. Probably not the best choice
[21:09:17] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Calindu› does iancu flipping town change your opinion that I'm likely town after the Anubis claim?
[21:09:42] ‹Calindu› ‹@ddevans96› I'm not sure now, because there's a high change he was the one targeting you
[21:10:47] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[21:10:56] ‹Calindu› So IW blocked ian's Otyugh on dd, I believe that makes the most sense
[21:11:16] ‹ddevans96› I would have had no way to assume he was targeting me
[21:11:36] ‹ddevans96› and remember I thought he was town
[21:12:48] ‹ddevans96› but yeah, I should not be treated as free of suspicion just bc of the Anubis claim
[21:13:05] ‹Calindu› Yeah, but him targeting you makes the most sense
[21:13:16] ‹Calindu› And the question is: why would he target you?
[21:13:26] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› I would assume a scumread...
[21:13:36] ‹ddevans96› because he thinks I'm mafia
[21:13:44] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Iannnnn
[21:13:46] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› We can talk
[21:13:50] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› About maf yay
[21:13:54] ‹Calindu› But ian saved you both times in the end
[21:13:56] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ‹@iancudorinmarian› sorry man
[21:13:59] ‹RootRanger› @ian I take back the "come on buddy" now that I realize you could have been fate egg, sry :p
[21:14:08] ‹Calindu› So this doesn't make any sense either
[21:14:37] ‹ddevans96› only the first round
[21:15:06] ‹ddevans96› maybe that situation changed his read from town/neutral to mafia
[21:15:09] ‹Calindu› True, but him and you started the train on IW
[21:16:21] ‹ddevans96› this is true
[21:16:25] ‹MasterWalks› did ian vote on insig before or after insigs reveal?
[21:17:00] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› on another note, shock is not infinitely unreliable
[21:17:43] ‹Calindu› ‹@MasterWalks› After
[21:17:47] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› shock is guaranteed to be 100% unreliable
[21:18:08] ‹iancudorinmarian› Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[21:18:10] ‹RootRanger› https://i.imgur.com/FtnSo3T.png
[21:18:12] ‹kaempfer13› claim both mafia and town for ian with confidence each
[21:18:13] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› *now
[21:18:33] ‹iancudorinmarian› For the record, I had info
[21:18:39] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› aaaaaaaaaaaaa
[21:18:42] ‹RootRanger› shock is mathematically infinitely unreliable
[21:18:54] ‹RootRanger› i can explain the stats in more detail if you guys want
[21:18:59] ‹iancudorinmarian› Well, I still have, but its with me in the gravw
[21:19:02] ‹iancudorinmarian› Grave
[21:19:11] ‹MasterWalks› if ian voted insig after insigs reveal, its very likely he targeted him just cuz he was blocked
[21:19:11] ‹RootRanger› in the gravy lol
[21:19:50] ‹Calindu› ‹@iancudorinmarian› I don't think you should have revealed that, you still revealed info now
[21:20:11] ‹RootRanger› So
[21:20:17] ‹RootRanger› ian said there was another GA right?
[21:20:20] ‹kaempfer13› what are we gonna do, modkill him?
[21:20:26] ‹RootRanger› Like he said it like it was a true statement, rather than a speculation
[21:20:31] ‹iancudorinmarian› Revealed info by revealing I had info :sillyspin:
[21:21:26] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Oaaaaa
[21:21:33] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› It’s a party of dead civs
[21:21:35] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Welcome
[21:21:38] ‹ddevans96› eh, that doesn't say anything tbh
[21:21:40] ‹ddevans96› it's whatever
[21:22:07] ‹MasterWalks› create a discord channel for dead civs so that when i die, we can all figure out mafia on our own
[21:22:23] ‹ddevans96› I think we should believe that iancu knew of a second GA
[21:22:32] ‹ddevans96› it's either that or a bluff
[21:22:35] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Who died?
[21:22:49] ‹RootRanger› And if there's another GA, it could still be mafia, too :/
[21:22:59] ‹PlayerOa› So much to catch up on :<
[21:23:18] ‹RootRanger› ian died, he was a a *cough fate egg* otyugh
[21:23:33] ‹PlayerOa› Town?
[21:23:37] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Yh
[21:23:39] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Town
[21:23:58] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› You should read up the last few pages. Interesting stuff
[21:24:01] ‹PlayerOa› F
[21:24:08] ‹PlayerOa› Yeah I'm on it
[21:25:53] ‹PlayerOa› N1 death is so boring :ermm:
[21:27:24] ‹Jen-i› A hoi hoi
[21:27:28] ‹RootRanger› heya
[21:27:53] ‹Espithel› ‹@ddevans96› Exactly one elemental and 0 mafia start as a GA.
[21:28:09] ‹Espithel› If there's a second GA, then it can only be via endow, fate egg, or scavenge. We can toss scavenge off the list.
[21:28:24] ‹Calindu› Nope
[21:28:28] ‹Calindu› ‹@Jen-i› Hey Jen
[21:28:33] ‹Espithel› No?
[21:28:35] ‹ddevans96› no, that's GN
[21:28:36] ‹iancudorinmarian› GN =/= GA
[21:28:39] ‹Espithel› That's what the role says.
[21:28:42] ‹Calindu› ‹@Espithel› Yeah, that's for GN
[21:28:44] ‹Espithel› AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[21:28:44] ‹ddevans96› Guardian Angel - ER Heal - Target any player including yourself. They are protected from the Nightkill and any further Offensive Roles that target them this Night. This ability fails if the target was Healed by a Guardian Angel on the previous Night.
[21:29:01] ‹Espithel› STOP USING ALL THE WEIRD FUCKING ABBREVIATIONS THAT LOOK THE EXACT SAME
[21:29:02] ‹Espithel› YOU NONCES
[21:29:11] ‹Espithel› AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YOU'VE MADE ME WRONG THAT'S LITERALLY HITLER
[21:29:13] ‹ddevans96› I tried to just say 'Golden' but no one listened :silly:
[21:29:19] ‹Espithel› STOP MAKING ME SAY THINGS THAT ARE INCORRECT
[21:29:20] ‹Espithel› >:(
[21:29:24] ‹ddevans96› Espi is Hitler confirmed
[21:29:33] ‹ddevans96› vote Nein on him as chancellor
[21:29:48] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Is that a Secret Hitler reference?
[21:29:55] ‹ddevans96› (vote Ja on me, I'm never fascist :silly:)
[21:30:20] ‹ddevans96› haha, yeah
[21:30:22] ‹ddevans96› best game
[21:30:40] ‹Espithel› Secret hitler is p good.
[21:31:21] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Theme of Mafia 72 confirmed?
[21:31:37] ‹Espithel› Also, er, can I just point something out?
[21:31:49] ‹ddevans96› if we can figure out how to play Secret Hitler in forums I would be so happy
[21:31:52] ‹Espithel› There's 22 roles, yeah? And 19 players.
[21:31:54] ‹ddevans96› but I don't think it's viable
[21:32:15] ‹RootRanger› Oh I'm 1000% down for Secret Hitler instead of mafia
[21:32:17] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› 22 roles?
[21:32:22] ‹RootRanger› I think it can work actually
[21:32:24] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Nah man, there aren't 22 roles.
[21:32:28] ‹vagman13› yay ian lynched
[21:32:35] ‹vagman13› happy days ^_^
[21:32:36] ‹iancudorinmarian› ‹@vagman13› :(
[21:32:38] ‹RootRanger› It's a max of 10 players, yeah
[21:32:45] ‹RootRanger› You could run 2 games and split them up
[21:32:51] ‹RootRanger› In terms of timeframe, it works out tho
[21:32:55] ‹iancudorinmarian› Game-losing lynch, I tell you
[21:32:59] ‹Espithel› No, I count 22
[21:33:08] ‹RootRanger› There's a max of 10 rounds, you just have to handle the ja/nein phase efficiently
[21:33:21] ‹Calindu› ‹@Espithel› I count 23
[21:33:24] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ‹@Espithel› Did you count Warden 3 times?
[21:33:37] ‹Espithel› Golden Nymph, Psion, Dragonfly, FFQ, Warden, Toadfish, Oty, Flayer, Warden, Angel, Grab-
[21:33:39] ‹Espithel› 21 roles
[21:33:45] ‹RootRanger› If you do 1 day for each ja/nein, and 1 day for each government, you can have it done in like ~30 days
[21:33:53] ‹Calindu› Oh, I counted warden 3 times
[21:33:55] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› Shrieker is not a role.
[21:34:08] ‹Calindu› And I also counted shrieker
[21:34:15] ‹Espithel› graboid, seraph, phoenix, anubis, green nymph, amber nymph, crusader, vulture, fate egg
[21:34:29] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› 20 roles.
[21:35:01] ‹Espithel› Oh, and squid and ghost
[21:35:02] ‹ddevans96› yeah, that might actually work out tbh
[21:35:05] ‹kaempfer13› if ian assumed a second ga was around for reasons with his role refer to my post
[21:35:17] ‹Espithel› And I counted warden twi
[21:35:19] ‹Espithel› OH FFS
[21:35:21] ‹Espithel› SUBMACHINE
[21:35:26] ‹Espithel› DON'T PUT A ROLE 3 TIMES
[21:35:28] ‹Espithel› YOU LITLE SHIT
[21:36:06] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› I am merely the host. The layout and roles were given to me by Linkcat. :whistling:
[21:36:35] ‹Espithel› THE POINT IS, THERE ARE MORE ROLES THAN THERE ARE PLAYERS - EVEN IF THERE WERE NO DUPLICATES, THERE'S SOME ROLES NOT IN THE GAME
[21:36:48] ‹Espithel› AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[21:36:55] ‹Espithel› Okay.
[21:36:55] ‹ddevans96› Link did it last game too, tbf
[21:36:58] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
[21:37:05] ‹ddevans96› CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
[21:37:08] • Espithel coughs.
[21:37:16] ‹Espithel› And there's clearly some duplicates.
[21:37:26] ‹Espithel› So I'd wager around 1-3 roles aren't in the game.
[21:37:34] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Your face is a duplicate
[21:37:50] ‹Espithel› I actually really hate that there's duplicates
[21:37:56] ‹Espithel› "I'm a guardian angel!"
[21:38:02] ‹Espithel› \\"I'm also a guardian angel!"
[21:38:09] ‹Espithel› And one claim doesn't counter the other
[21:38:11] ‹Espithel› ew
[21:38:29] ‹Calindu› Yeah, I don't like duplicates either tbh
[21:38:54] ‹Espithel› Reason I'm pointing this out is I'm noticing a mass roleclaim, yeah?
[21:39:11] ‹Espithel› What if the abilities we want to claim aren't in the game?
[21:39:16] ‹Espithel› What if there's no psion, for instance?
[21:39:40] • Espithel coughs.
[21:39:48] ‹Espithel› Sorry for screaming at you Subbles. Please forgive. -w-
[21:39:51] ‹RootRanger› does anyone remember when people would have only primary roles and the roles would be d ifferent for mafia and civs
[21:40:01] ‹RootRanger› so you could just mass roleclaim and anyone who didn't have a duplicate role was guaranteed civ
[21:40:19] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Yh
[21:40:20] ‹Espithel› Those were the days
[21:40:25] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
[21:40:52] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[21:46:04] ‹ddevans96› ‹@InsignificantWeeaboo› yes?
[21:47:16] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[21:47:20] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ^
[21:47:35] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Arsenal or chelsea tonight
[21:48:20] ‹Mobian› Wait, so forum chat is now disallowed??
[21:48:49] ‹Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ‹@Mobian› Only forum chat PMs.
[21:48:53] ‹PlayerOa› ‹@Mobian› Think he means chat PMs
[21:49:52] ‹Mobian› ‹@Guest-MindFlayer-1ea56› ah, thanks for clarifying
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 09:30:49 pm
I request investigative roles on me tonight. I request Warden, Flayer, and Squid DO NOT target me tonight.

We're not getting anywhere as long as I'm alive and unchecked - you'll just focus the lynch on me and we won't be able to discuss anything else. If you think I'm mafia, prove it.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 29, 2019, 10:19:54 pm
Jesus, what a circus that was. Glad I made that rule, sad deadline is at a bad time for me. Would like someone to make a rundown of the vote changes and which ones were just to extend. I probably would have kept my vote on dd again (lol) because of the other two candidates, Insig is a town read and iancu claiming he got roleblocked in the thread doesn't make sense as mafia. I might have gone for a Mobian lynch.

If iancu was Fate Egg then all of his roles would have been revealed like Insig's were last game.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 29, 2019, 10:32:47 pm























































Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 29, 2019, 10:34:40 pm
Three empty spoilers. Illuminati confirmed.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 11:26:57 pm
Alright, here is how I would like roles to be used tonight. Listen or don't, but i strongly believe it is a good play.

Ward- Target Espi PLEASE. He is mafia and i have reason to believe he may be a FFQ. Do NOT target kaempf

Psion- Target shock. If you know his role, you know how truthful his info dump will be. If you have already targeted him, target Linkcat. He is making confident decisions and i would like to know if that confidence is info gained or scum read gained. but shock has priority here.

FFQ- do whatever you want but you are strongest in the beginning of the game imo. Here soon, it may be a good idea to info dump what your fireflys have told you.

Flayer- Target kaempf. I dont think he is GN and i would like him stalled until he figure out a bit more about him.

GoldenNymph- I would also like you to target kaempf. Lets flush all the info we can out of him. He explained himself and pretty well but there is still something off about him. Im going to be brutally honest with you tho, if mafia has even the slightest hint that they know who you are, you will probably die tonight. You would be dumb to not use your ability N0 and now your ability is usable again this night.

Green Nymph- Target literally anybody who has not voted yet. Hitting graboid would be like hitting a treasure chest and will hide them even longer.

Crusader- Target dd. Anubis is an underrated skill and will help tremendously if dd gets NK'd.

@Espithel
 
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 29, 2019, 11:43:17 pm
Okay crusader, dont target anubis. i changed my mind there. everything else still stands
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 01:23:37 am
What a fascinating thing to read.

dd's claim was bad, if he dies then we know what role he is. It's easy to just say "I have not targeted anyone yet" and keep hiding role in case you live.

More thoughts later
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 01:31:30 am
I'll note quickly that due to what happened, Shock is currently a heavy town lean for me
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 30, 2019, 01:45:15 am
'in case you live'

I wasn't going to live without claiming. Like three different people all asked me to claim if I wanted to live.

'if he dies'

The point was to not die.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 30, 2019, 02:01:32 am
Target Espi PLEASE. He is mafia and i have reason to believe he may be a FFQ.

Ooooooooooooooooooh.

A third firefly queen?

Please tell me why you think that's the case.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 30, 2019, 02:04:29 am
Because i think a mafia has FFQ. I also think you are mafia. So by process of elimination, i have deduced that you must have FFQ.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 30, 2019, 02:05:38 am
Everyone is FFQ.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 30, 2019, 02:08:37 am
Who wants to take bets on who dies tonight?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 30, 2019, 02:11:39 am
Because i think a mafia has FFQ. I also think you are mafia. So by process of elimination, i have deduced that you must have FFQ.

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/560243285147516929/575923435981635584/274911e619e09f4731d44eea8663d493.gif)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 30, 2019, 02:13:01 am
Because i think a mafia has FFQ. I also think you are mafia.

I argued against this in chat, yet you still push this. Explain.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 30, 2019, 02:24:22 am
Who wants to take bets on who dies tonight?

We shouldn't do that, because then the mafia can just use who we name, kill them, and have the predictor look bad.

Therefore, I'm going to invoke a WIFOM. For shits and giggles.

Shockcannon is going to die tonight.

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 02:45:55 am
'in case you live'

I wasn't going to live without claiming. Like three different people all asked me to claim if I wanted to live.

'if he dies'

The point was to not die.

My bad, there were no posts about it and the chatlog was too long
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 30, 2019, 02:50:51 am
Because i think a mafia has FFQ. I also think you are mafia.

I argued against this in chat, yet you still push this. Explain.

The message im trying to get across is just block espi. Who else is more important to block? we got crap for leads right now. Flayer hits dd in case he lied about role and ward hits espi because he is maf. ez pz. I could honestly not care who targets who after that.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 30, 2019, 02:52:56 am
I've honestly just been using my role only to see if I get roleblocked.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 02:55:09 am
Flayer can target IW in case he's mafia, letting GN target dd safely
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 30, 2019, 05:54:20 am
It doesn't really matter if Flayer targets IW or not - if IW hits me and impedes potential investigative roles, you have a lynch target. Flayer should target who they think is mafia.



My plan: I think GN and FFQ should target me - otherwise, I'm fine with the other investigative roles (and Crusader) looking elsewhere if they want. I would prefer as many as possible so the GN can blend in easier, however.

When you see me as town, my recommendation is to just try to be subtle - if you had a mafia read on me, use one of the many valid excuses presented to move yourself to neutral. Or from neutral to town. Or even don't change your public read, but just say you prefer a different lynch target. Play the same way you have been playing, just with the knowledge that I'm town. Don't even soft claim unless absolutely required. It clearly only takes a tiny bit to move the scales away from me, given that I've survived at the very end twice.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 30, 2019, 06:07:58 am
I am against GN targeting dd. They should target someone else. dd has been so close to lynch every day that while even the slightest disturbance has him avoid lynch, it could go the other way. GN's role should be targeted on a more quiet semi sketchy person. I say kaempf or d2d.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 30, 2019, 06:13:28 am
dd has been so close to lynch every day that while even the slightest disturbance has him avoid lynch, it could go the other way.

Requesting elaboration.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 30, 2019, 06:16:55 am
It clearly only takes a tiny bit to move the scales away from me, given that I've survived at the very end twice.

This but vise versa. If you say anything remotely scummy, "the scales" will tip not in your favor. I still think next lynch will come down to another vote hopping session unless GN is lynched. And the hopping will be on you and someone else.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: RootRanger on May 30, 2019, 06:22:13 am
He's saying GN shouldn't target someone who is likely to die soon. This makes sense, because it would make the GN target less useful. Keep in mind that a GN reveal tomorrow is likely still not the best play, in which case we'd have no surefire way of ensuring that ddevans isn't lynched if GN discovers he's civ. In other words, if GN checks dd tomorrow and finds he's civ, then town tries to lynch dd, GN can either 1.) roleclaim (bad idea) or 2.) drop hints/do nothing (dd could die anyways, in which case GN has no useful info anymore).

That being said, publicizing desired GN targets isn't great either, since mafia can NK those targets.

We want the GN to have as many living former targets as possible upon roleclaiming. People mentioned 3 as a target number and I think this is reasonable - it would mean a Day 5 reveal in the best case. So, GN should target whoever he thinks is least likely to die - from lynch or NK alike.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 30, 2019, 06:24:58 am
[19:03:09] ‹Espithel› ‹@MasterWalks› Ping, I guess
[19:03:45] ‹Linkcat› Someone post the chat log for today.
[19:05:02] ‹MasterWalks› i kinda want a mafia voice channel now. It would be slower, but easier to catch up on.
[19:05:10] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Espithel› i responded
[19:06:14] ‹Espithel› Also, yeah
[19:06:16] ‹Linkcat› ‹@Espithel› Sign up as Boss.
[19:06:22] ‹Espithel› We need to have a big talk about allowing us talking in blab
[19:06:27] ‹Espithel› It's becoming a huge prob -
[19:06:32] ‹Espithel› ‹@Linkcat› But then I can't be with JCJ
[19:07:15] ‹Linkcat› We have to change to a discord channel.
[19:08:24] ‹Linkcat› We may*
[19:08:43] ‹Linkcat› For future mafias.
[19:13:18] ‹Mobian› ‹@Linkcat› That's my plan, or create a new blab channel solely for mafia
[19:14:05] ‹MasterWalks› doesnt discord auto delete messages once there have been a certain amount?
[19:14:46] ‹Espithel› Nope.
[19:14:53] ‹Mobian› Although, if we were to use a new blab channel, I would request no guest posting allowed
[19:15:02] ‹Espithel› I have a 2-year-long philosophical werewolf rp with my bae.
[19:15:07] ‹Espithel› I can go back to the very beginning
[19:15:08] ‹Espithel› Trust me
[19:15:11] ‹Espithel› Discord good
[19:15:58] ‹MasterWalks› well thats a sentence i have never hear before and probably never will again
[19:16:31] ‹Mobian› Damn furries :P
[19:16:42] ‹Espithel› Mate it's not even damn furries
[19:16:44] ‹Espithel› Seriously
[19:16:57] ‹Espithel› Imagine having a person inside of you that's equally inteligent, equally capable of thought
[19:17:02] ‹Espithel› Like
[19:17:15] ‹Espithel› If they're both equally sapient - they're both worthy of human consideration as equal
[19:17:20] ‹Espithel› And one of them does a crime.
[19:17:27] ‹Espithel› They're bound to each other. How do you punish the other?
[19:17:37] ‹Espithel› how do you *not* punish the other
[19:18:22] ‹mathman101›
(6d10) 5 + 4 + 6 + 7 + 5 + 5 = 32 ...
[19:18:33] ‹MasterWalks› Hey insig, can you translate weeb talk?
[19:18:33] ‹Espithel› Or, like
[19:18:43] ‹Espithel› Werewolves tend to be stronger than humans, yeah?
[19:19:04] ‹Espithel› How does that translate into societal norms if the wolf is of equal sapience and communication and has the same level of equality as a human?
[19:19:10] ‹Espithel› Should they have the same level of equality?
[19:19:25] ‹Espithel› What if it's a 60ft white-furred ocean-glassing death monster?
[19:19:28] ‹Espithel› Is it still equal?
[19:23:15] ‹Espithel› And don't even get me started on institutionalised pozzing
[19:24:06] ‹Mobian› I think I know MW's role....
[19:24:19] ‹Mobian› Based on how he's been talking
[19:25:01] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› guess
[19:25:22] ‹Mobian› Psion
[19:26:03] ‹MasterWalks› cool
[19:26:15] ‹Espithel› I can absolutely guarantee you he's not a psion.
[19:26:21] ‹Espithel› If he is, he's currently lying.
[19:26:32] ‹Espithel› And Walks isn't malevolent.
[19:29:24] ‹Mobian› ‹@Espithel› How can you be certain?
[19:29:39] ‹Espithel› Because he things I'm an FFQ.
[19:29:42] ‹Espithel› I'm not an FFQ.
[19:29:53] ‹Espithel› So you have two options:
[19:29:58] ‹Espithel› Walks is a Psion, is lying about my role
[19:30:03] ‹Espithel› Or Walks isn't a Psion
[19:30:06] ‹Espithel› Pick one.
[19:30:25] ‹MasterWalks› or walks didnt target you
[19:30:48] ‹Mobian› Or, you are lying about your own role
[19:31:31] ‹Espithel› I suppose those are also possibilities.
[19:31:35] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
(5d9) 5 + 4 + 3 + 7 + 1 = 20 ...
[19:31:49] ‹Espithel› Yet, if he is a psion and didn't target me, er.
[19:31:53] ‹Espithel› Why not?
[19:33:53] ‹Espithel› Like, really. He thinks I'm scummy as fuck.
[19:37:58] ‹Espithel› Although, the mafia having two FFQ is interesting.
[19:38:04] ‹Espithel› One of the two*
[19:38:05] ‹Espithel› whoops
[19:38:55] ‹Mobian› We don't even know for sure if there ARE 2. I suspect one of them was a fate egg
[19:39:20] ‹Espithel› That's also a possibility.
[19:39:41] ‹Espithel› I guess we'll know tomorrow. If two are catched again, that's weird.
[19:40:22] ‹Mobian› Yup, but I doubt it. We're getting to the point where more people will be using their abilities
[19:43:14] ‹Espithel› We have three more shots at getting a scum, yeah.
[19:43:23] ‹Espithel› Before lynch or die, I mean.
[19:45:02] ‹Mobian› Hrmmmmm. We definitely want to be super careful with our lynches now. I'd rather not lose more townies
[19:56:20] ‹dawn_to_dusk› So we know a few roles now
[19:56:28] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That's fun
[20:05:42] ‹Espithel› Oh!
[20:05:46] ‹Espithel› Before I forget!
[20:06:17] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› If I lie about my role, it'll contradict something I said on day 1. I'm honestly surprised no one's noticed it.
[20:24:53] ‹Mobian› ‹@Espithel› What would that be?
[20:33:25] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› :^)

Small one. Mostly role guesses, more talks on multiple FFQs, and a ton of weird werewolf philosophy.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 30, 2019, 06:27:04 am
We want the GN to have as many living former targets as possible upon roleclaiming. People mentioned 3 as a target number and I think this is reasonable - it would mean a Day 5 reveal in the best case. So, GN should target whoever he thinks is least likely to die - from lynch or NK alike.

What if GN finds 2 mafia at the end of the night, should that warrant a post? I think outing half the mafia will give town enough boost to win without a GN.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 06:29:19 am
WPSIC - mafia special
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 30, 2019, 06:42:10 am
If you say anything remotely scummy, "the scales" will tip not in your favor. I still think next lynch will come down to another vote hopping session unless GN is lynched. And the hopping will be on you and someone else.

He's saying GN shouldn't target someone who is likely to die soon.

Then make me not likely to die soon. Mafia would be idiotic to NK me right now, it gives town so much to work with. So just don't lynch me.

I realize I'm probably not going to convince anyone, but if I was a bystander in this situation, I would be borderline positive I'm town. If I'm mafia and I've lived under heavy scrutiny for two rounds, with none of the mafia giving themselves away as keeping me alive, and no confirmation that I'm mafia, town just straight up deserves to lose. I don't think there's any way this town could be that bad.

If people don't want to investigate me, I'm going to at least ask that they investigate IW. He meets MW's 'more quiet semi sketchy person' criteria.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 30, 2019, 06:59:37 am
He's saying GN shouldn't target someone who is likely to die soon. This makes sense, because it would make the GN target less useful. Keep in mind that a GN reveal tomorrow is likely still not the best play, in which case we'd have no surefire way of ensuring that ddevans isn't lynched if GN discovers he's civ. In other words, if GN checks dd tomorrow and finds he's civ, then town tries to lynch dd, GN can either 1.) roleclaim (bad idea) or 2.) drop hints/do nothing (dd could die anyways, in which case GN has no useful info anymore).

That being said, publicizing desired GN targets isn't great either, since mafia can NK those targets.

We want the GN to have as many living former targets as possible upon roleclaiming. People mentioned 3 as a target number and I think this is reasonable - it would mean a Day 5 reveal in the best case. So, GN should target whoever he thinks is least likely to die - from lynch or NK alike.

This is the first Root post that I actually like, agree with all of it.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 30, 2019, 07:08:47 am
ddevans is town. We should use exactly 0 roles on him. ddevans should immortal himself. If you're feeling extra, feel free to put momentum on ddevans.


I'm personally going to treat ddevans as confirmed town from now on. I'm okay losing if ddevans turns out to be mafia after all he's done.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 30, 2019, 07:21:35 am
If you say anything remotely scummy, "the scales" will tip not in your favor. I still think next lynch will come down to another vote hopping session unless GN is lynched. And the hopping will be on you and someone else.

He's saying GN shouldn't target someone who is likely to die soon.

Then make me not likely to die soon. Mafia would be idiotic to NK me right now, it gives town so much to work with. So just don't lynch me.

I realize I'm probably not going to convince anyone, but if I was a bystander in this situation, I would be borderline positive I'm town. If I'm mafia and I've lived under heavy scrutiny for two rounds, with none of the mafia giving themselves away as keeping me alive, and no confirmation that I'm mafia, town just straight up deserves to lose. I don't think there's any way this town could be that bad.

If people don't want to investigate me, I'm going to at least ask that they investigate IW. He meets MW's 'more quiet semi sketchy person' criteria.

Disagree, Day 1 and 2 are always a mess and it's believable that you avoided the lynch both days without any of your teammates putting themselves out there. You're good enough to not crack under pressure or show obvious scumtells. There would only be 3 other mafia, and 14-15 town. Mafia doesn't have much impact on the lynch early on. There could easily be one mafia bussing, one in the non-voters, and one on any player but you, and we wouldn't be able to pinpoint one just like that if you got lynched. If you were mafia I would not blame town at all, there's not much to go on this early. Being mafia doesn't magically make you easier to lynch.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Submachine on May 30, 2019, 07:38:09 am
After some chat with the players about the differences between the intended rules and the current rules, we got to an agreement that a few changes should be made to the game. I list these changes below.

I also mix in some clarifications and answers to questions.


Give me 2 minutes to update everything.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 30, 2019, 07:43:29 am
Disagree, Day 1 and 2 are always a mess and it's believable that you avoided the lynch both days without any of your teammates putting themselves out there. You're good enough to not crack under pressure or show obvious scumtells. There would only be 3 other mafia, and 14-15 town. Mafia doesn't have much impact on the lynch early on. There could easily be one mafia bussing, one in the non-voters, and one on any player but you, and we wouldn't be able to pinpoint one just like that if you got lynched. If you were mafia I would not blame town at all, there's not much to go on this early. Being mafia doesn't magically make you easier to lynch.

Yeah. I guess you're right. I'm just really demoralized. Thanks for the compliments, I suppose.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 30, 2019, 08:27:32 am
[00:18:19] ‹ddevans96› ‹@Mobian› can you log your conversation with Espi earlier?
[00:18:25] ‹ddevans96› history isn't loading for me
[00:18:55] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I agree. T Storm is either super effective or a dead card.
[00:19:13] ‹MasterWalks› dont think its ever really worth running 6 in a deck for this reason
[00:20:43] ‹MasterWalks› If mobian doesnt log i can. Itll be a pain in the butt for me since my 12 lives happened at the same time so i will have to delete a ton of PMs
[00:21:36] ‹ddevans96› can turn PMs off
[00:21:42] ‹ddevans96› look at green buttons at the top
[00:21:51] ‹ddevans96› can also turn everything but actual chat off
[00:21:52] ‹MasterWalks› oh yea huh
[00:21:59] ‹MasterWalks› ill post it now then
[00:22:13] ‹ddevans96› first time I've ever used half of them was an earlier log tbh
[00:24:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from RootRanger in Forum Games. Eat this post.
[00:25:29] ‹MasterWalks› I just keep L/J turned off. I never touched any of the others
[00:26:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. The post that refreshes.
[00:28:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. Shhh... don't tell anyone.
[00:30:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from dawn to dusk in Forum Games. Sharp minds, sharp posts.
[00:33:30] ‹MasterWalks› What does that mean?
[00:33:39] ‹MasterWalks› WPSIC
[00:34:28] ‹kaempfer13› what people say in chat
[00:44:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. With a name like that... it has to be good.
[00:48:51] ‹ddevans96› my head hurts
[00:48:54] ‹ddevans96› mafia too intense
[00:52:44] ‹MasterWalks› this mafia>last mafia
[00:53:06] ‹ddevans96› true
[00:58:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I've pieced some things together, including Shock's role, and some more stuff regarding the dd IW iancu trio
[00:58:30] ‹ddevans96› ye?
[00:59:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Better not to say Shock's role, there's probably a reason he hasn't told everyone yet
[00:59:44] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Can't exactly confirm it either
[01:00:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. Is this the beginning of the end, or just the end of the beginning?
[01:00:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› But since Ian was town Oty, we assume that it was Ian who targeted dd
[01:00:42] ‹ddevans96› shock is GN. I'm convinced
[01:00:52] ‹ddevans96› I don't really care if I'm wrong at this point, I'll lean into it
[01:00:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm not
[01:01:20] ‹ddevans96› I was like 60% sure of it long before he claimed it
[01:01:58] ‹dawn_to_dusk› There are other ways he can be sure of Ian and your relationship
[01:02:15] ‹ddevans96› it's not about that
[01:02:46] ‹ddevans96› my suspicions had nothing to do with either iancu or me
[01:03:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Anyway, since it was town Oty, we rule out M/M/M trio
[01:03:23] ‹dawn_to_dusk› And I doubt Warden would target mafia
[01:03:27] ‹ddevans96› was there actually a legitimately belief that all three of us were mafia?
[01:03:30] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Yo I just joined
[01:03:40] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Hell yeah it's a party now
[01:03:46] ‹MasterWalks› there was a hope
[01:03:54] ‹MasterWalks› we wanted mega bussing
[01:04:04] ‹ddevans96› I mean, understandable
[01:04:06] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Very very slim chance but it would have been cool
[01:04:47] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I still doubt that 2 super aggressive town roles targeted the same player
[01:05:05] ‹ddevans96› the same player who half the game wants killed and the other half thinks is town?
[01:05:10] ‹ddevans96› nah, I don't doubt that
[01:05:36] ‹ddevans96› it means they're not both mafia, that's about it
[01:05:38] ‹dawn_to_dusk› That wasn't the case at N1
[01:05:45] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› if you know shocks role, can we be expected to believe his info dump?
[01:05:55] ‹ddevans96› was it not?
[01:06:27] ‹ddevans96› I mean, not as extreme, but there were definitely a number of people suspicious enough of me to go for it
[01:06:31] ‹ddevans96› 5-7 people
[01:06:42] ‹ddevans96› maybe more that didn't explicitly say
[01:07:03] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Tbh I'm still suspicious of mafia Egg
[01:07:31] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Which would mean Shock is mafia alongside a Psion
[01:07:43] ‹dawn_to_dusk› And Ian didn't use ability
[01:08:56] ‹ddevans96› still a possibility, yeah
[01:09:07] ‹dawn_to_dusk› So the people who pushed lynch on Ian, who conveniently voted for dd
[01:09:22] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Some would be mafia
[01:10:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. Enjoy!
[01:10:06] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Knowing that they could blame ian for the Oty kill
[01:10:24] ‹ddevans96› wtf I love shock now
[01:10:46] ‹dawn_to_dusk› This line of thinking also puts dd as town
[01:11:16] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@MasterWalks› Yes
[01:11:27] ‹dawn_to_dusk› If he flips town
[01:11:31] ‹shockcannon› does immaterial block night kill?
[01:11:38] ‹dawn_to_dusk› No
[01:11:38] ‹ddevans96› no
[01:11:48] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Only offensive abilities
[01:12:01] ‹ddevans96› well, all secondary abilities
[01:12:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Well yeah
[01:13:08] ‹shockcannon› I dont think ian lied about being blocked n0
[01:13:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Also MW is going to be happy but I have suspicions of Espithel being mafia
[01:13:40] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Not enough to warrant me voting for him, but he's someone I'm looking at
[01:14:29] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Assuming I'm correct about his role as well
[01:14:42] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I sound like Shock, don't I
[01:15:13] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@shockcannon› Why would he? He flipped town
[01:15:47] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Wait
[01:16:02] ‹MasterWalks› omg
[01:16:11] ‹MasterWalks› can you back me up on getting him blocked?
[01:16:37] ‹shockcannon› i think i'm dying tonight
[01:16:52] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@shockcannon› I will carry on your legacy
[01:17:05] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@shockcannon› give us a mini info dump just in case you do
[01:17:07] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Why would Ian use his ability N0
[01:17:18] ‹MasterWalks› wait until the last hour of the night if you have to
[01:18:14] ‹shockcannon› I left a back up in one of my many previous posts
[01:18:24] ‹shockcannon› it'll only make sense if I die though
[01:18:47] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@Submachine› If Oty is blocked, do they keep the ability?
[01:18:50] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Wait
[01:18:56] ‹MasterWalks› cmon, something more straight forward would be so nice
[01:18:57] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Mafia doesn't need a Psion
[01:19:35] ‹shockcannon› If I die
[01:19:46] ‹shockcannon› look through my past posts
[01:19:51] ‹shockcannon› the info is there
[01:19:54] ‹Submachine› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› If an OU ability fails, it is refunded, if that's what you want to know.
[01:20:20] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Damn
[01:20:21] ‹Submachine› By the way, there are no messages of "You have been blocked." There are only messages of "Your ability failed."
[01:20:47] ‹dawn_to_dusk› dd claims to have not targeted anyone
[01:20:51] ‹MasterWalks› also, is it confirmed that ian was not fate egg?
[01:20:55] ‹Submachine› And Fate Egg is never revealed when killed, it's in the role description.
[01:21:07] ‹MasterWalks› hmmmmm... not according to link
[01:21:41] ‹Submachine› Well... He didn't clarify that before Night 0 ended.
[01:21:51] ‹MasterWalks› Fair
[01:22:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. Shhh... don't tell anyone.
[01:22:05] ‹ddevans96› I guess he didn't feel like he needed to, bc FE was revealed on death last game, with the same wording
[01:22:09] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ‹@Submachine› it has the same wording as last game
[01:22:27] ‹dawn_to_dusk› And Egg had all roles revealed on death
[01:22:29] ‹Submachine› That is true, which I admit I found super weird, but not questioned it.
[01:22:48] ‹Submachine› *did not question it
[01:23:15] ‹Submachine› Should I make a role change on Night 2? I think the game can go on as normal with this change.
[01:23:33] ‹Linkcat› ‹@Submachine› It says 'or revealed' because of the old GotP.
[01:23:45] ‹ddevans96› did it affect anything besides iancu's death reveal?
[01:23:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› You can make that change
[01:23:55] ‹ddevans96› if no, then I think it's safe to treat it the way Link did last game
[01:23:57] ‹Linkcat› Insig was Fate Egg last mafia and all his roles were revealed when he died.
[01:24:10] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I want to know if ian was egg
[01:24:21] ‹ddevans96› (for future mafias - should say 'revealed by a role')
[01:24:29] ‹dawn_to_dusk› ^
[01:24:55] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I hope Ian was Oty
[01:24:55] ‹Linkcat› I didn't consider a flip as the same as revealing.
[01:25:22] ‹Submachine› There's the misunderstanding then. I didn't call it a flip, i assumed that was the reveal.
[01:25:46] ‹Submachine› All dead players may or may not have been Fate Eggs. :sillyspin:
[01:25:56] ‹Linkcat› lol
[01:26:05] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Are you making the change then aaaa
[01:26:09] ‹ddevans96› bastard mod :silly:
[01:26:57] ‹Submachine› I prefer not making further changes unless really necessary. I hoped we could clear up everything by the end of Night 0.
[01:27:12] ‹Submachine› But I *CAN* make this change if it's demanded.
[01:27:38] ‹MasterWalks› I demand
[01:27:45] ‹Linkcat› All rules should be kept consistent with the previous game.
[01:27:57] ‹shockcannon› i dont think it makes a difference
[01:28:17] ‹MasterWalks› hush my shock child
[01:28:33] ‹Submachine› Fine then.
[01:28:42] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Thank
[01:28:52] ‹Submachine› But don't forget to post the related chatlog.
[01:28:56] ‹shockcannon› im still pissed i role revealed
[01:29:01] ‹shockcannon› and we still lynched ian
[01:29:17] ‹Submachine› I might also add the other thing Link told me to change.
[01:29:18] ‹dawn_to_dusk› You did that N0 with Flayer duh
[01:29:31] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Or whenever that was
[01:29:50] ‹Linkcat› Maybe we would've believed you if you weren't shock.
[01:30:41] ‹shockcannon› my gamble woud've worked perfectly if i was just slightly less aggressive about ian
[01:30:45] ‹Linkcat› Heal vs Obsession? That's a necessity, those abilities need to be ordered.
[01:33:09] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I'm leaving after Sub posts
[01:33:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I want to go home and eat
[01:33:18] ‹Linkcat› ‹@Submachine› Also, Coffee is due for a modkill if he doesn't post tonight.
[01:33:36] ‹Linkcat› I would really like to not have a modkill this time.
[01:34:06] ‹MasterWalks› mod kills suck. Even if its mafia it feels wrong
[01:35:45] ‹ddevans96› does him talking in chat about mafia not count?
[01:36:38] ‹Linkcat› Not with the current wording.
[01:37:36] ‹ddevans96› hm, okay
[01:40:00] ‹Submachine› There you go.
[01:40:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Submachine in Forum Games. Awww yisssss. Mutha. Effin. Breadcrumbs.
[01:40:25] ‹Submachine› Also, it's a good point. Chat might as well count as talking in the topic..
[01:41:01] ‹ddevans96› nah, it shouldn't
[01:41:35] ‹Submachine› So, there. you guys already killed two Fate Eggs.
[01:42:09] ‹Linkcat› Real shit?
[01:42:27] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Everyone is a Fate Egg
[01:42:39] ‹dawn_to_dusk› We're really playing Easter Hunt
[01:42:46] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Sub is bastard mod
[01:43:01] ‹dawn_to_dusk› We aren't searching for mafia, we're searching for eggs
[01:43:09] ‹Submachine› Everyone may or may not be Fate Eggs. :silly:
[01:43:50] ‹Linkcat› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› You could be a Fate Egg.
[01:43:59] ‹Linkcat› dd could be a Fate Egg.
[01:44:02] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. I found Waldo.
[01:44:03] ‹Linkcat› I could be a Fate Egg.
[01:46:36] ‹Submachine› I stay silent now, because I feel like I interrupted strategizing.
[01:46:45] ‹Mobian› Well, shit.
[01:46:55] ‹ddevans96› *sigh*
[01:46:56] ‹ddevans96› are you fucking
[01:47:02] ‹ddevans96› *sigh*
[01:47:26] ‹Mobian› I think we fucked this game up hella bad
[01:48:23] ‹Submachine› This is what happens when you change the rules mid-game.
[01:48:24] ‹Vineroz› mafia is hella bad \o/
[01:48:31] ‹Submachine› Blame Linkcat.
[01:48:54] ‹Mobian› Not what I meant
[01:49:03] ‹ddevans96› you...played last game, when FE showed all roles
[01:49:14] ‹ddevans96› and nothing in the wording changed to indicate that behavior should change
[01:49:20] ‹Linkcat› It's worth noting that this does not increase or decrease the chances of a GA being alive.
[01:49:54] ‹ddevans96› it doesn't -really- matter
[01:50:25] ‹Mobian› Fact of the matter is we lynched 2 of our wild cards
[01:50:35] ‹Submachine› I believe the way I did should have been how Link should have done it.
[01:50:42] ‹Mobian› It's unlikely that there's more out there
[01:52:30] ‹ddevans96› ugh
[01:53:05] ‹Linkcat› So who's down for an all Fate Egg mafia?
[01:53:14] ‹Mobian› It is what it is, and what it is is a mess
[01:53:17] ‹ddevans96› yeah. cancel this one and start it
[01:54:15] ‹Linkcat› The iancu flip just happened, so there's not really any impact for him.
[01:54:27] ‹Linkcat› JCJ being Egg is totally irrelevant.
[01:55:39] ‹ddevans96› wasn't me killing the angel specifically a reason some people were so adamant about trying to lynch me again?
[01:58:43] ‹Linkcat› Wasn't the point that they think you lynched the failed N0 kill? If so, him being Fate Egg doesn't change that.
[01:59:13] ‹ddevans96› ...
[01:59:32] ‹ddevans96› why the FUCK
[01:59:35] ‹ddevans96› would ANY mafia
[01:59:41] ‹ddevans96› do something so blatantly stupid
[01:59:43] ‹Linkcat› If they think a mafia Psion investigated him and you lynched him because of that, then that also doesn't change.
[01:59:57] ‹Linkcat› That's what I remember saying.
[02:00:09] ‹Linkcat› Mafia had a guaranteed NK if they really wnate him dead.
[02:00:30] ‹ddevans96› we just failed to kill someone who could be angel? better get our best fucking player (unless also Link or Root) to get him lynched so he looks suspicious the whole game!
[02:00:36] ‹ddevans96› did people actually think that?
[02:01:13] ‹Linkcat› At least one person did.
[02:02:15] ‹ddevans96› *sigh*
[02:02:25] ‹Vineroz› if everyone is overthinking, no one is overthinking
[02:02:28] ‹Submachine› If that rubbed anyone the wrong way, deepest apologies.
[02:03:08] ‹ddevans96› it sucks, but whatever. it's early in the game, it probably didn't actually change anything
[02:03:12] ‹ddevans96› don't worry too much about it
[02:03:21] ‹Submachine› :)
[02:05:12] ‹ddevans96› I'm just too worked up today to be thinking about mafia
[02:05:55] ‹ddevans96› like my brain shut off after the day phase ended
[02:15:31] ‹ddevans96› I'm gonna try to sleep. someone make sure everything gets logged
[02:15:33] ‹ddevans96› gn
[02:15:57] ‹Submachine› If this doesn't get logged by the end of the day, all players involved get modkilled. :silly:
[02:22:11] ‹Mobian› I'd log, but I'm currently on mobile
[02:24:09] ‹Submachine› It should be someone who's been here when all this started, because otherwise I cannot scroll up long enough.
[02:24:28] ‹Submachine› but dawn and dd both left.
[02:24:38] ‹Submachine› @Link: Have you been here when the above convo started?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 08:54:40 am
Summary: me being Shock for a while until Egg reveals render everything I say irrelevant

Sub making the FEgg change

dd talking about how the FEgg change impacted how people thought of him in N2 after the GA kill
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 09:54:53 am
Hey Sub, don't forget to give ian's N0 role as well, as was also shown in the last mafia
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 30, 2019, 10:07:09 am
No it wasn't.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 30, 2019, 10:13:46 am
It wasn't? Maybe I'm thinking of post-game
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Ginyu on May 31, 2019, 12:44:58 am
I want to adress something that is really annoying me, to the point of me even losing motivation to play. The general use of chat is fine, although the gigantic masses are too much for me to bother reading. If people being online could give a short summary, that would be great (and thanks to those who already did that).

However, the fact that several chat logs aren't even posted anymore is definitely not the way to go, and also against the rules. I've recently being poked into chat and there was mafia chat going on for hours, with breaks in between to easily post them. No one did that. At the end of Day 2, people were chatting for about 6 hours (!) without a single one feeling responsible, and it the end Sub himself had to do it. That sucks, because those not checking the chat very often (I only have it open for notifications most of the time) might lack lots of important informations. Further, seeing lots of posts makes you realize there is an active discussion going on to hop into. And if you did not have the chat open for the time being - we all know how great and fast the chat history is.

The icing on the cake is players masquerading as guests, which I probably do not need to elaborate.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 12:50:18 am
[14:51:40] ‹kaempfer13› someone from mafia please tell us your nightkill target so we can move on with the day ;)
[15:09:50] ‹Espithel› K
[15:09:55] ‹Espithel› NK target's Espithel
[15:11:05] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[15:12:07] ‹Wyand›
[15:16:43] ‹MasterWalks› Ha, mafia wont target mafia for NK
[15:17:10] ‹Espithel› Try me
[15:32:53] ‹Mobian› ‹@Espithel› Did you just confess?
[15:35:44] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I’m dying tonight espi
[15:35:52] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Unless GA comes in clutch
[15:37:17] ‹Mobian› ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› if you're GN like you claim, ain't no salvation for you
[15:38:04] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› It’s all about making the mafia doubtthough
[15:38:25] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› If I’m not GN and I get protected then they waste a kill chance
[15:39:05] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› if I am GN and then don’t target me then I also still live and keep GN alive
[15:39:19] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› It’s a win win because my mindgating is impeccable
[15:42:39] ‹Mobian› ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I do hope you're right.
[15:44:29] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[15:45:11] ‹Espithel› ‹@Mobian› Yeah Sub's a bastard mod
[15:45:18] ‹Espithel› All the mafia are actually jesters
[15:45:31] ‹Espithel› If they get lynched, the town loses
[15:45:42] ‹Espithel› So the mafia team are NKing themselves in protest
[15:45:54] ‹Espithel› Ian and Jcj were my teammates
[15:46:12] ‹Espithel› That's how much of a bastard he is
[15:47:23] ‹Mobian› Perhaps MW's right about his hunch
[15:48:38] ‹MasterWalks› He is
[15:49:07] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I would be the best jester ever
[15:49:16] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Day 1 lynched
[15:49:22] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› ofc. You are the best everything ever
[15:49:43] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› All I would have to do is make 0 posts and then every one would vote me up
[15:50:51] ‹MasterWalks› I think mafia is targeting quiet people in hopes to kill GN. GN, you need to start talking. To hide this, everyone needs to start talking a lot
[15:51:01] ‹MasterWalks› Lets get to 100 pages before night is over
[15:51:13] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› ‹@MasterWalks› I can talk more if you want me to
[15:51:26] ‹Espithel› I actually think that's true, Walks.
[15:51:31] ‹Espithel› For a different reason, though.
[15:51:45] ‹Espithel› They're targeting quiet people because it gives the town as little information as possible.
[15:51:49] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› The best GN is the GN that role claims and isn’t believed by anyone
[15:51:56] ‹Espithel› Which seems to imply they're satisfied with the current town discussion.
[15:52:29] ‹Espithel› Then again, with a sample size of, er
[15:52:40] ‹Espithel› 1.5 nightkills (It's likely, but we don't *know* that they targeted jcj)
[15:53:32] ‹Espithel› So, if they're satisfied with current town discussion, it would also imply that current town discussion is wrong.
[15:54:08] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Insig is town
[15:54:18] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Which is obvious by root voting on him
[15:54:19] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ^
[15:54:51] ‹MasterWalks› Literally everyone is not liking how root is playing.
[15:55:18] ‹Espithel› Does that translate into Root being scum?
[15:55:31] ‹Espithel› I could definitely see an argument for it.
[15:55:36] ‹Espithel› Might be worth pushing.
[15:58:01] ‹MasterWalks› Im not sure root is mafia scum. His scum claims on shock are less baseless then the ones i have on you
[15:58:14] ‹MasterWalks› more baseless* i think
[15:58:28] ‹MasterWalks› i dunno. They are worse than the ones i have on you. There.
[16:01:32] ‹kaempfer13› So having terrible reads= town now?
[16:06:00] ‹Espithel› Wow, they're *more* baseless than your reads on me?
[16:06:07] ‹Espithel› I don't think that's possible :^)
[16:08:56] ‹Wyand›
[16:13:37] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I’m pretty sure I know 1 mafia for reals
[16:13:47] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Hopefully I don’t die tonight
[16:16:12] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› ‹@kaempfer13› hey guess what?
[16:17:04] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[16:24:56] ‹kaempfer13› well, I guessed wrong, didnt expect you to leave me hanging
[16:30:24] ‹Guest-Deathstalker-4afa1› Yall real dumb
[16:30:40] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› yep
[16:31:33] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Www3 with the assist
[16:31:37] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› It is ddevans
[16:31:50] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› We should’ve let him die all this time
[16:36:32] ‹kaempfer13› he def didnt need mafiabuddies to stay alive both times (or if so at most 2 both times)
[16:39:44] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Espithel› lol mine at least has a semi based accusation. Root says lynch cuz shock he is crazy, not because any mafia hints, just a personality clash.
[16:42:27] ‹Guest-Parasite-d2a36› uuuuuu
[16:42:39] ‹MasterWalks› nnnnn
[16:45:01] ‹Wyand›
[16:46:39] ‹Espithel› No, Root's argument is that Shock is helping the mafia
[16:46:48] ‹Espithel› Therefore we should get rid of something actively helping the mafia
[16:46:59] ‹Espithel› I've been with him since mafia 40, this is something he's very consistent on
[16:47:00] ‹Guest-Virus-c6515› hello
[16:47:09] ‹Espithel› Is it true? There's the question!
[16:48:36] ‹MasterWalks› Hm, how is shock really helping mafia? He is just being shock. I think shock will be more useful after next day for town
[16:48:56] ‹MasterWalks› No i dont think its true
[16:49:38] ‹MasterWalks› And considering we are 0-3 lynching shock, who is probably town, would help mafia more than what ever jank shock is doing
[16:50:50] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Ginyu maf
[16:53:20] ‹Wyand› good night all
[16:53:28] ‹Wyand› hi and bye Aves :)
[16:53:36] ‹Aves› hi-bye ^^
[16:53:46] ‹Aves›
[17:08:43] ‹Espithel› Root.png:
[17:08:49] ‹Espithel› I'm gonna put words in his mouth.
[17:08:53] • Espithel coughs
[17:09:55] ‹ddevans96› Root has put words in people's mouths less than at least four other people this game, lol
[17:10:47] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› That sentence makes 0 sense
[17:11:18] ‹ddevans96› false
[17:11:20] ‹Espithel› "Shock is constantly sowing chaos, distracting people from details that actually matter, and by grinding himself into irrelevance, is creating a perfect cover for mafia members, potentially himself."
[17:11:55] ‹MasterWalks› "Shock is constantly sowing chaos"
[17:12:00] ‹MasterWalks› by god i cant wait for trials
[17:12:10] ‹MasterWalks› he hasnt seen anything yet
[17:12:20] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I’m going to use chaos seed/power in every game
[17:12:42] ‹Espithel› "Bad play like this actively helps the mafia because it allows their mistakes to go with less scrutiny, as everyone focuses their attention on an annoying jester."
[17:13:18] ‹MasterWalks› I dont think we've put all that much focus on shock tbh
[17:13:18] ‹Espithel› \root.png
[17:14:37] ‹MasterWalks› root is putting all our focus on shock therefore giving mafia cover. lynchroot.exe
[17:16:27] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Lunch root for the memes?
[17:16:29] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› I’m in

Talks on root and shocks "feud". Some talks on why mafia is targeting the quiet players, either because it gives town less info or because they believe GN is being quiet.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 12:50:52 am
I apologize for anything I've said in chat. I will put out a disclaimer though that anything I say in chat should not be taken seriously. Anything I say that is important for everyone to be able to read will be put into an actual post by me in this thread, and this is how it has been for me up to this point.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 12:59:51 am
I want to adress something that is really annoying me, to the point of me even losing motivation to play. The general use of chat is fine, although the gigantic masses are too much for me to bother reading. If people being online could give a short summary, that would be great (and thanks to those who already did that).

However, the fact that several chat logs aren't even posted anymore is definitely not the way to go, and also against the rules. I've recently being poked into chat and there was mafia chat going on for hours, with breaks in between to easily post them. No one did that. At the end of Day 2, people were chatting for about 6 hours (!) without a single one feeling responsible, and it the end Sub himself had to do it. That sucks, because those not checking the chat very often (I only have it open for notifications most of the time) might lack lots of important informations. Further, seeing lots of posts makes you realize there is an active discussion going on to hop into. And if you did not have the chat open for the time being - we all know how great and fast the chat history is.

The icing on the cake is players masquerading as guests, which I probably do not need to elaborate.

I agree with all of this and must admit, i skipped some chat log postings on the assumption someone else will do it. I think this is probably the reason for everyone. However, i think i have posted more logs than anyone else, so i will not take all the blame.

Regarding the guest thing. Last game is was a bit more tolerable since it was all mostly people we are familiar with. However, this game has some players that returned from reunion day. These players dont know these guests. We all know you use guest when you use mobile; its not hard to log in and keep you logged in when on mobile. If you would like help learning how, ask me.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 31, 2019, 01:24:10 am
did anyone reveal while i was gone?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 31, 2019, 02:44:30 am
Recent claims:
Shock claims GN, overriding Flayer claim (no info on targets aside from ian who died anyway) (not believed to be a serious claim)
dd claims Anubis (stated no targets)
IW officially claims Warden (no target N0, targeted dd N1)

If I missed one, please do say. These are only the late D2 claims.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 31, 2019, 03:35:17 am
I've tried bitching about the guest posting, AND non-player commentating/interference both last game and this one to no effect. The people in charge don't seem to care, and it's just wasting our breath.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 03:59:02 am
FGO Note: I've addressed every instance of non-player interference that I am aware of. I don't see guests in chat as a huge problem if it's clear who they are, though I do ask that everyone log in before talking about any ongoing forum game. We'll definitely have some discussion on chat rules and a few polls after this game.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 31, 2019, 04:02:34 am
FGO Note: I've addressed every instance of non-player interference that I am aware of. I don't see guests in chat as a huge problem if it's clear who they are, though I do ask that everyone log in before talking about any ongoing forum game. We'll definitely have some discussion on chat rules and a few polls after this game.

Thank you, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: moehrpi on May 31, 2019, 01:10:59 pm
[15:38:25] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› If I’m not GN and I get protected then they waste a kill chance
[15:39:05] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› if I am GN and then don’t target me then I also still live and keep GN alive
[15:39:19] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› It’s a win win because my mindgating is impeccable

It's impeccable unless GA blindly follows through and mafia kills you tomorrow.
Or they don't buy it and leave you alone as Flayer.

Also, GN obviously isn't best when no one believes you. Because you needed to find mafia and die or survive and have people believe you. Saying youre the best, contradicting youself and refusing to listen to other people does not work.

I'll continue to be unactiveish until Sunday night but try to read up.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 31, 2019, 05:48:22 pm
Oh btw, if I get nightkilled tonight - which could happen if mafia doesn't have a better target or doesn't think my lynch is inevitable - don't immediately go for IW, that's what they'll want you to think. Analyze all the evidence.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: DoubleCapitals on May 31, 2019, 06:14:06 pm
Day 3


The gods channeled a force they never thought they would see again. In the night, one heard its whispers...
"Ah... company..."
He was never seen again.

dawn to dusk died. He was an Elemental and an Otyugh.

IMPORTANT NOTES!

Day 2 has ended.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 06:22:21 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/029/223/cover2.jpg)
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on May 31, 2019, 06:39:28 pm
My ability failed this night.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 06:49:05 pm
My ability failed this night.

Should he say who he targeted? I mean, he has said all of his previous targets. And knowing who you targeted might give us more info
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 08:02:51 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
Linkcat (1) - shockcannon
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 08:14:20 pm
[12:55:29] ‹MasterWalks› shockcannon
[12:55:37] ‹MasterWalks› Hurry up and info dump
[12:57:17] ‹shockcannon› i'm deciding
[12:57:24] ‹shockcannon› because I learned some new stuff today
[13:02:38] ‹MasterWalks› you cant back out after teasing this
[13:02:57] ‹shockcannon› got to do something irl
[13:03:03] ‹shockcannon› i'll post a lot more later
[13:03:06] ‹shockcannon› i need to think a bit also
[13:03:13] ‹shockcannon› some really interesting things happened
[13:03:28] ‹shockcannon› we might have a triplet of one role
[13:03:42] ‹Calindu› You can't just post a vote and leave us hanging like this lol
[13:03:45] ‹Calindu› What role?
[13:03:50] ‹shockcannon› which means a lot of roles are missing from this game
[13:03:56] ‹shockcannon› like A LOT
[13:04:02] ‹shockcannon› since double fate egg also
[13:04:09] ‹shockcannon› and i'm fairly certain there's double FFQ also
[13:04:19] ‹shockcannon› there's like 5-6 missing roles in this game
[13:04:46] ‹Calindu› Probably, since it's random and it only gets randomised again if it's not balanced

TL:DR Pushing shock to info dump. Some speculation on multiple roles, mostly fate egg and Firefly Queen. Shock promises to come back and info dump.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 08:58:18 pm
I'll be brief and annotate.

- I'm GN and have checked ian and Linkcat.
- Linkcat is mafia
- I'm fairly certain mafia has psion and mindflayer
- I think it's likely that they discovered JCJs role n0
- I think the random moehrpi vote on JCJ was highly suspicious. Could be mafia throwing it out just to see if it gains traction without any pushing of it (which it did)
- Insig using warden last night was also suspicious but I think he's town. Again, I don't think mafia let themselves get into a situation where they're being voted up. Likely all the prime suspects so far have been town. This clears Insig and ddevans for me. Could be bussing but why bus if your team isn't even close to being on the radar
- Linkcat being mafia clears Espithel in my opinion
- ian said he had info to dump had he lived. To me this means a couple possible options. 1.) He lied about being blocked N0 and found some info. 2.) Insig actually blocked D2D N1 when targeting ddevans and ian was either roleblocked again (giving him info that there was a mind flayer or 2nd warden out there) or he hit a protected/untargetable player.

I've got some more hard info to share later, but I want votes on Linkcat for now.
Also, I want some thoughts on the following players that I find highly suspicious and likely mafia:

moehrpi
immortal_feud
mathman101
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 31, 2019, 09:01:28 pm
The lord has spoken.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, Espithel


How are we going to keep you safe tonight, hm?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 31, 2019, 09:06:52 pm
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
Linkcat (3) - shockcannon, Espithel, Calindu
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 09:08:49 pm
Lmao, you really thought a fake check would get a reaction out of me? Good shit, shock. At least we can see who immediately jumps on me.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 09:10:49 pm
EBWOP

- I think FFQs should reveal. I believe there are two and I think their information would be useful without having everyone else have to give away more roles. I know no wants a full role claim so we can keep roles hidden for now.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 31, 2019, 09:12:24 pm
I mean, if he fake checks GN, then that's extremely scummy of him.
Regardless of how you flip, we've found one, imo.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 09:15:13 pm
Nah, it's a shock thing to do.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 09:17:39 pm
The real GN should not counterclaim if that wasn't obvious already.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 31, 2019, 09:17:55 pm
You can't give people free passes for being (potential) bastards just because it's Shock.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 31, 2019, 09:18:56 pm
EBWOP

- I think FFQs should reveal. I believe there are two and I think their information would be useful without having everyone else have to give away more roles. I know no wants a full role claim so we can keep roles hidden for now.

So be it, I'm FFQ and you are actually lying about targeting Linkcat, I'm not sure if you are lying about being GN.
Linkcat was my N0 target, I know his role and what he got targeted by. He got guarded N1 and an Anubis targeted him N2.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, Espithel
shockcannon (1) - Calindu

I must admit I jumped too early on this, without even fact checking.

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 09:24:38 pm
@Calindu

Last chance. I wish we could be friends.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 09:30:48 pm
Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, Espithel
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, MasterWalks
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 09:35:19 pm
I would rather have avoided my immortality being revealed, but I will confirm. Thanks, dd.

Congratulations shock, you forced out another claim and made it even easier for mafia to find the GN. I'm kind of down to actually lynch you now. In that same vein, Insig should not reveal his target.

Now that I think about it, with 4 mafia they could have made the play of sacrificing shock to cause as much chaos as possible and force claims, maybe even a GN cc if they're a new player. They might figure he wouldn't last long anyway and tried to get as much use of him before he dies. If so, we should not put too much stock into his actions, as that would be part of their plan.

I vote to lynch shockcannon.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 31, 2019, 09:38:16 pm
I would rather have avoided my immortality being revealed, but I will confirm. Thanks, dd.

Except I didn't target you.

Linkcat (3) - shockcannon, Espithel, ddevans96
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, MasterWalks
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: ddevans96 on May 31, 2019, 09:39:59 pm
EBWOP:

Linkcat (3) - shockcannon, Espithel, ddevans96
shockcannon (3) - Calindu, MasterWalks, Linkcat
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 09:45:00 pm
Anubis targeting Linkcat? Either someone's really confident Linkcat is town or.........
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 09:46:03 pm
So be it, I'm FFQ and you are actually lying about targeting Linkcat, I'm not sure if you are lying about being GN.
Linkcat was my N0 target, I know his role and what he got targeted by. He got guarded N1 and an Anubis targeted him N2.
I would rather have avoided my immortality being revealed, but I will confirm. Thanks, dd.

Except I didn't target you.

You have got to be kidding me.
If Cal is telling the truth, then ddevans is lying. If Cal is lying then Linkcat is also lying. If dd is lying, well then dd is lying.

I would put money on at LEAST one of these guys is mafia. Probably more like 2 of them are mafia.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Calindu on May 31, 2019, 09:46:44 pm
Dd is not necessarily lying, there could be a second Anubis.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 31, 2019, 09:47:36 pm
So be it, I'm FFQ and you are actually lying about targeting Linkcat, I'm not sure if you are lying about being GN.
Linkcat was my N0 target, I know his role and what he got targeted by. He got guarded N1 and an Anubis targeted him N2.
I would rather have avoided my immortality being revealed, but I will confirm. Thanks, dd.

Except I didn't target you.

You have got to be kidding me.
If Cal is telling the truth, then ddevans is lying. If Cal is lying then Linkcat is also lying. If dd is lying, well then dd is lying.

I would put money on at LEAST one of these guys is mafia. Probably more like 2 of them are mafia.

Or, there's simply a second Anubis. Whether there IS or not, I have no clue, but the possibility cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 09:48:19 pm
[2019-05-31 17:02:24] Espithel: The lord has spoken!
[2019-05-31 17:08:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Calindu in Forum Games. You can read it. We can help.
[2019-05-31 17:10:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. There is no spit in this post!
[2019-05-31 17:12:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. Be sure to give them a raise!
[2019-05-31 17:12:30] Calindu: Actually wait, shock is lying
[2019-05-31 17:13:06] Espithel: If he's lying about -this-, he needs to die.
[2019-05-31 17:13:27] Calindu: I'm not sure about lying about being GN, but he's definitely lying about checking Linkl
[2019-05-31 17:13:55] Espithel: Hang on a moment
[2019-05-31 17:14:01] shockcannon: well this is interesting news you're oferring
[2019-05-31 17:14:01] Espithel: Why did he think ia-
[2019-05-31 17:14:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Post of the day, for sure.
[2019-05-31 17:14:46] shockcannon: ‹@Calindu›
[2019-05-31 17:14:47] Espithel: Actually, yeah. I jumped on that one far too quickly.
[2019-05-31 17:14:50] shockcannon: ‹@Calindu›
[2019-05-31 17:14:54] shockcannon: ‹@Calindu›
[2019-05-31 17:15:21] Espithel: ‹@Calindu›
[2019-05-31 17:15:23] Espithel: ‹@Espithel›
[2019-05-31 17:15:23] Calindu: ‹@Espithel› Yeah, I made the same mistake
[2019-05-31 17:15:24] shockcannon: if you're actually FFQ and you think i'm lying, quote my very last post and resopnd
[2019-05-31 17:15:24] Espithel: ‹@shockcannon›
[2019-05-31 17:15:27] Espithel: fuck
[2019-05-31 17:15:37] Espithel: That was supposed to be 3 claindus
[2019-05-31 17:15:38] Calindu: So be it
[2019-05-31 17:15:39] Espithel: joke failed
[2019-05-31 17:15:41] Espithel: 0/10
[2019-05-31 17:15:44] shockcannon: I'd like to battle it out on forums if you wanna tussle
[2019-05-31 17:15:55] shockcannon: -1/10
[2019-05-31 17:16:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. FIRST!
[2019-05-31 17:16:11] shockcannon: ‹@Calindu›
[2019-05-31 17:16:18] shockcannon: if you're actually FFQ and you think i'm lying, quote my very last post and resopnd
[2019-05-31 17:16:48] shockcannon: reveal yourself
[2019-05-31 17:16:49] shockcannon: as the queen
[2019-05-31 17:16:54] shockcannon: and take me down
[2019-05-31 17:16:55] shockcannon: with your power
[2019-05-31 17:17:45] Wyand:
(5d6) 1 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 4 = 13 ...
[2019-05-31 17:18:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Espithel in Forum Games. Shhh... don't tell anyone.
[2019-05-31 17:19:13] shockcannon: espithel
[2019-05-31 17:19:16] shockcannon: we are team
[2019-05-31 17:19:19] shockcannon: join me
[2019-05-31 17:19:21] Calindu: There you go, what you asked
[2019-05-31 17:19:23] shockcannon: in our adventures
[2019-05-31 17:19:26] shockcannon: to destroy linkcat
[2019-05-31 17:20:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Calindu in Forum Games. Do you even post?
[2019-05-31 17:20:14] Wyand: seems like I missed Oa
[2019-05-31 17:20:16] Wyand: :/
[2019-05-31 17:20:37] shockcannon: ‹@Calindu› i wonder...........
[2019-05-31 17:20:56] shockcannon: i'm disappointed in you
[2019-05-31 17:20:58] Calindu: What are you wondering about?
[2019-05-31 17:21:23] shockcannon: i'm wondering if you know something
[2019-05-31 17:21:34] shockcannon: but if you knew that something you wouldn't be asking what i'm wondering about
[2019-05-31 17:21:41] shockcannon: so now I no longer need to wonder because I have my answer
[2019-05-31 17:22:08] shockcannon: i truly am disappointed in you
[2019-05-31 17:22:39] Calindu: I'm starting to agree more and more with Root, this kind of random noise just doesn't help the town at all
[2019-05-31 17:23:16] shockcannon: I gave you a real chance Calindu
[2019-05-31 17:23:28] shockcannon: I'll give you one more
[2019-05-31 17:24:24] Calindu: I'm not playing this stupid game, sorry
[2019-05-31 17:26:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. PHRASING!
[2019-05-31 17:26:02] shockcannon: guess i'll have to rely on MW
[2019-05-31 17:26:12] shockcannon: *sigh*
[2019-05-31 17:28:12] shockcannon: ‹@Calindu› ok
[2019-05-31 17:28:15] shockcannon: you know what
[2019-05-31 17:28:22] shockcannon: i'll stop being chaotic
[2019-05-31 17:28:46] shockcannon: but can you quote my last post and at leaest tell everyone to give me one final chance?
[2019-05-31 17:28:53] shockcannon: so no one just rage kills me
[2019-05-31 17:28:58] shockcannon: i promise I'll stop messing around
[2019-05-31 17:29:01] shockcannon: actually for real
[2019-05-31 17:29:52] shockcannon: also, i'll post chat log after this dies down
[2019-05-31 17:30:37] Calindu: Feel free to ask it in thread, because I'm not the one to decide who gets a final chance
[2019-05-31 17:30:49] Calindu: I'm not backing down on my role claim and the info I know
[2019-05-31 17:31:34] MasterWalks: ‹@Calindu› Did you target me? Or was it a diff FFQ?
[2019-05-31 17:32:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from MasterWalks in Forum Games. Eat this post.
[2019-05-31 17:32:04] Calindu: It's not relevant atm, I'll reveal more if it becomes relevant
[2019-05-31 17:32:15] MasterWalks: ok
[2019-05-31 17:32:29] shockcannon: fun fact: Submachine never edited rules to prevent ciphers
[2019-05-31 17:32:52] shockcannon: I agree
[2019-05-31 17:32:55] shockcannon: town shouldn't reveal
[2019-05-31 17:33:01] shockcannon: i've seen the light and changed my ways
[2019-05-31 17:33:08] shockcannon: but I think revealing a bit is still good
[2019-05-31 17:33:12] MasterWalks: you start code talking and that will guarantee a lynch
[2019-05-31 17:33:32] shockcannon: Also I think there's a good chance that mafia is pretending to be graboid by not voting
[2019-05-31 17:33:34] shockcannon: but who knows
[2019-05-31 17:33:43] Calindu: You just spread misinformation, how is that good for town?
[2019-05-31 17:35:05] shockcannon: its good if town is smart and can separate my facts from my lies
[2019-05-31 17:35:23] shockcannon: but I realize my flaws and I'll change by not talking anymore
[2019-05-31 17:36:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. The post that smiles back.
[2019-05-31 17:38:29] Wyand:
(5d6) 1 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 12 ...
[2019-05-31 17:38:35] Calindu: ‹@shockcannon› How can we separate the facts from the lies? Not everyone is FFQ and got lucky to catch the lie
[2019-05-31 17:38:50] Calindu: It's too late now
[2019-05-31 17:39:00] shockcannon: I literally just told you how like 10 minutes ago
[2019-05-31 17:39:11] shockcannon: but whatever lynch me
[2019-05-31 17:39:57] shockcannon: Also whether or not you agree, my chaotic behavior and the responses they generate separate the mafia from the town
[2019-05-31 17:40:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from ddevans96 in Forum Games. The post that smiles back.
[2019-05-31 17:40:05] shockcannon: and that info is available for everyone to easily see
[2019-05-31 17:40:20] MasterWalks: Wow. DD vs. Link? This is gonna get interesting
[2019-05-31 17:41:53] shockcannon: 2 FFQ, 2 FE, 2 Anubis, 2 Warden?
[2019-05-31 17:41:56] shockcannon: this is getting spicy
[2019-05-31 17:42:00] ddevans96: if Cal is telling the truth
[2019-05-31 17:42:36] shockcannon: it appears my reveal may have just caught 2 mafia
[2019-05-31 17:42:39] shockcannon: would you look at that
[2019-05-31 17:43:16] shockcannon: I would love to see who role claims anubis
[2019-05-31 17:43:27] shockcannon: because we definitely talked about not using anubis at the start of game
[2019-05-31 17:43:48] shockcannon: also using anubis on linkcat n1?
[2019-05-31 17:43:50] shockcannon: super sus
[2019-05-31 17:43:58] Calindu: ‹@shockcannon› N2
[2019-05-31 17:44:10] Calindu: ‹@ddevans96› I am
[2019-05-31 17:44:14] shockcannon: still sus
[2019-05-31 17:44:39] Calindu: I find lying about having like 3 different roles more suspect
[2019-05-31 17:45:09] Mobian: This just became even more of a shitshow....
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 09:48:52 pm
It appears there is also a second Warden, unless Linkcat visited ddevans N1.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 09:52:47 pm
Actually second Warden confirmed, unless Linkcat is mind flayer because Calindu would've picked up on Linkcat's role being used.

BUT if Linkcat is mind flayer and blocking ddevans, I personally find that suspicious. Linkcat has been after ddevans since day 1, and now it seems everyone thinks ddevans is town (including me).
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 31, 2019, 09:54:12 pm
Linkcat (3) - shockcannon, Espithel, ddevans96
shockcannon (4) - Calindu, MasterWalks, Linkcat, Mobian

Shock, you've been caught up in too many lies. At this point, you're causing more harm than good.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 09:56:24 pm
Well, thanks to whoever granted me this blessing. May I ask why you are voting on me? I know you really think shock is GN, but even if I was mafia, there would have to be an extremely specific set of circumstances for his claims to be true.

The Nightkills show that mafia is really trying to snipe the GN, which makes all the claims even more annoying. Their POE can't be very big now.

The other Anubis/Egg probably targeted me because I asked for it lol. I still don't get why you guys think it's a bad role.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 10:09:23 pm
Okay, this whole thing about me being annoying and lying is a fine opinion but it's getting a little repetitive. Am I actually hurting town or are you just pissed that this game didn't go like the other 70 mafias and how you want it to go? Because let's assume I don't cause noise and we all just stay quiet. Well guess what, town will never find mafia because mafia just won't ever have to talk. With how the roles work, secondary roles can NEVER find primary roles except for Golden Nymph. That means waiting potentially like 9 nights before GN finds 1 mafia, during which time they could easily get killed since NK isn't blockable when placed on GN. NK isn't even traceable by secondary roles.

All mafia has to do is do literally NOTHING. They don't have to use any secondary roles at all, and can simply just NK every night. They'll just never vote and blend in with all the afk townies who might be graboid. Then the few active townies will only have reads on each other and just start voting each other up and killing each other off. Talking and sharing info IS A MUST for town to win, as many of you have already described.

WELL GUESS WHAT? Who was the one who talked about sharing roles and info to get discussion going and to make the best of our abilities? And guess what, that was completely shot down. We didn't even get a bit of info out of ian because we told him not to share. Look how useful that was? We don't even know who he targeted because of the duplicate roles.

What does that leave me with? That leaves me with lying to hope discussion will spark so we're not sitting here doing nothing and hopefully getting mafia to slip up. You know what, mafia may have stayed quiet this entire time, but if you look at the responses to my "chaotic noise" then you should be able to easily pinpoint some DEFINITE TOWN and even some highly suspicious MAFIA. But no, we're too busy whining about shock. If you want to me to stop talking sure. After my next post I won't post again. But mafia is in control, but whether you like it or not, I have forced people to respond in ways that give us actual reads.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on May 31, 2019, 10:42:15 pm
Shock, if you're THIS fucking town and still mafia, you deserve to win. I retract my vote.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: shockcannon on May 31, 2019, 10:44:09 pm

Apology to ian. Sorry

I knew everyone expected me to make an early read and stick to it. I used this to my advantage by calling out ian. This was a safe move because no town would trust me so ian wouldn't be lynched. Mafia would also know I'm wasting my time so they would let me do my thing. As a result this allows me to go unchecked. I know people here are smart, so I needed this initial set up to make the next pay off work.

The next step was to put doubt in the mafia's mind as to my role. I wanted them to think that maybe there's a chance I was golden nymph. Since town was so against all the strategies I had offered, I knew we were basically screwed since I have 0 trust in town's reads. I think mafia is too good this game to be easily read. As a result, I knew our main hope was to keep GN alive and hope they picked good targets.

I had hoped to fake reveal GN day 3 or day 4, but the switch over to ian as an actual possible lynch target threw me into a panic. I actually had an epiphany because I realized that this opportunity was actually a blessing. I could reveal GN now, saving ian and causing mafia to blow up in their chat. They would be wondering where the quick switch came from? Obviously town wouldn't be stupid enough to reveal GN after only knowing one target? But it's shock. If anyone would play like shock is playing now AND be GN, it would be shock. Sadly, voting was in overtime and I couldn't save ian. The brightside was that ian flipping town makes me seem slightly more GN to mafia.

I'm smiling now knowing that mafia actually paid me some respect because they sent their mind flayer to block me this past night (N2). Smart move because they can kill another town without risking the situation where i'm not GN AND I get healed by GA. Blocking would prevent me from finding a primary role.

Now, I planned to straight up dump what I'm dumping now at the start of day 3 (today). BUT the fact that I got blocked changed my plans. I now had the opportunity to continue role claiming GN to see what mafia does when they know I'm lying. I picked Linkcat (who I thought might have been mafia this entire time) hoping to force mafia to respond to me. This was working as the votes piled on Linkcat but unfortunately (or fortunately) Calindu responded. Now this outs Calindu as either the mafia response I was looking for, or a townie calling me out on my BS. Either way, we got a ton of info out of Calindu. Now we have a whole dilemma between duplicate roles, Linkcat being apparently protected, Calindu being FFQ, and more. If I had played in favor of town and not as "honorary 5th mafia member" this info would be disclosed and we would have nothing to work off.

Sure, this reveal narrows down GN, but I think the tradeoff is worth it, and if you don't think so, just lynch me now.



I told the truth on the very first day. I am indeed mindflayer. My targets in order were Moehrpi, Ginyu, Moehrpi (blocked by another mindflayer UNLESS moehrpi got protected by second anubis in between or moehrpi is graboid who unburrowed N0 and then reburrowed N1/N2).


Fun fact: submachine never edited the ruleset to ban ciphers or codes. Also, I figured hidden messages that everyone had equal access to and equal ability to solve were fair game. My role and my targets were hidden in some of my previous posts but none of you caught on. Oh well.


Several nights, I had suspected mafia had mindflayer with ian getting blocked often, but I wasn't sure if it was just iridium warden. With our new information from Calindu and old info from Insig, we can infer that there are 2 iridium wardens assuming no lies were told. I can add onto this and say that there is another mind flayer almost definitely. That makes a LOT of duplicate roles. 2 FE, 2 warden, 2 FFQ, 2 mind flayer, 2 Anubis. Personally, I think someone is lying here. If not, we have a lot of missing roles. There’s going to start being some inconsistencies and this is where we need to be on the lookout.

Another thing, moehrpi and ginyu never revealed that they were blocked. This offers a few options. One, they have EoR abilities or didn’t use their abilities. Two, they never shared they were blocked. Regardless, I find this a bit suspicious. Tied in with my previous reads on moehrpi and the JCJ vote, I have been highly suspicious of moehrpi since day 1.

I personally say we grill Linkcat and moehrpi. If they can’t convince us, we should lynch. Neither of them have received attention or votes and yet have maintained some decent level of activity and presence. In my opinion, the two of them are exactly where mafia wants to be (until today).


Anyways, this is my last post probably for a long time. Might not even vote for a while. I’ve played my part of crazy shock. I’m leaving the game in town’s hands now. Maybe I threw, maybe I didn’t. Only time will tell.

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 31, 2019, 10:48:10 pm
Im glad were not ganging up on dd anymore only to switch targets last minute. I think we have an unhealthy habit of targeting people that talk first and then switch to some random other guy that cant defend themselves at the time (and said sth that can be seen as scummy). It is not too unlikely that nearly everyone that has been voted on is town.
If we always start lynching at the slightest hint we'll never reach the real mafia.

I dont really have any scumreads, but I have some townreads and some eyebrowsraising cases.

Mobian: he may seem scummy, but hes actually my strongest townread. He's acting exactly like I would expect from someone that got used to knowing who is and isnt mafia and gets frustrated not doing that anymore and knowing that none of his or his teammates roles (but one) will directly help with that.

Insig: I dont think mafia would allow that big of a slipup to unnecesarily endanger one of their own and the specifics of ians role make it extremely unlikely he lied.

Both of you please dont take that as invitation to continue to play poorly, its just the kind of poor play mafia usually shouldnt do and probably wouldnt even conceive.

dd: Yes,yes I tried to kill him last round for lack of a better option (no lynch is just bad, but all of last rounds options probably were just as bad). he defended his position well and most of what makes him scummy is a direct consequence of selfdefense. I went back to look at his actual posts and he didnt push as hard for espi lynch as I remembered.

Eyebrows raised:
shock:






Linkcat/Rootranger: Mentioning them in one breath bc its for the same reason. They are both known to be great players, still alive (even though up till now noone really intended to lynch them much, so they arent a good scapegoat for mafia) and I just dont really get what they do.

moehrpi: he jokes about being mafia in chat occasionally, which doesnt mean a whole lot of course. Didnt seem to helpfull otherwise.

Note that eyebrows raised != scumread. An explanation could be helpfull though,

Chances are mafia just waits for us to tear each other apart.


Another thought: I thought about making a dayphasely lynchlog (all votes and how they changed), would this be more helpfull than harmfull to town?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 31, 2019, 11:00:27 pm
:(
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on May 31, 2019, 11:11:32 pm
I'm going to try something different with chatlogs.

Instead of waiting for the conversation to finish, I'm going to only post important chunks of information as they happen.  Once the conversation is finished, I'm going to post the entire chatlog.

In addition, in an attempt to make it more palletable, I'm going to edit out many of the fluff, clean up the grammar a bit. Generally just make it look nicer. Hopefully this'll make the chatlog dilemma (JUST BAN BLAB, LINKCAT/SUB) a lot less of an issue.

[23:50:49]
‹shockcannon› I misused the word disclosed [in my dump]. I meant to say secret.
-
‹MasterWalks› Hey, Kaempf? What's up with the empty spoiler?
‹kaempfer13› Reference to one of shock's posts. Actually putting everything in would exceed the character limit.
‹MasterWalks› Oh his post with empty spoilers. Gotcha
-
‹kaempfer13› I suggest everyone who jumped the gun retracts their vote for this day, so that voting on anyone else doesn't seem pointless. The day has just started, you can put your vote back in later in the exact same state but at least allow for other options. Note that both people that are voted on have my attention as potentially bad for town, but we need to allow the others to contribute their own thoughts.
[00:00:21]



In alignment with Kae's wishes:

Linkcat (3) - shockcannon, Espithel, ddevans96
shockcannon (3) - Calindu, MasterWalks, Linkcat, Mobian

-

Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, ddevans96
shockcannon (3) - Calindu, MasterWalks, Mobian


I've been hearing a lot about a Moehrpi lynch. Do we have anything solid on him?
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on May 31, 2019, 11:14:06 pm
pick someone else guys i dont want to lynch shock or link
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on May 31, 2019, 11:28:25 pm
Decided to still post the chatlog, as espi omitted anubis discussion and mw potentially bussing him (mobians suggestion). Everything else should be in thread though.

[2019-05-31 23:46:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. I need a tissue...
[2019-05-31 23:47:57] Mobian: Damn you, Calindu
[2019-05-31 23:48:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Mobian in Forum Games. It needs a gold star.
[2019-05-31 23:49:10] shockcannon: so we have 2 FE for sure
[2019-05-31 23:49:16] shockcannon: assuming everyone else is not lying
[2019-05-31 23:49:19] shockcannon: 2 warden
[2019-05-31 23:49:21] shockcannon: 2 FFQ
[2019-05-31 23:49:24] shockcannon: 2 Anubis
[2019-05-31 23:49:35] shockcannon: lot of doubles
[2019-05-31 23:50:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. Imagination at work.
[2019-05-31 23:54:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. This post would be a terrible thing to waste.
[2019-05-31 23:54:06] shockcannon: I wonder what maf chat is like right now
[2019-05-31 23:54:14] Calindu: I can confirm there is a second Warden, unless IW or someone else is lying on that topic
[2019-05-31 23:54:45] ddevans96: mafia team is probably something like Link, Cal/IW, Espi, someone barely active
[2019-05-31 23:54:51] ddevans96: I would bet money on me being 3/4 right rn
[2019-05-31 23:55:41] shockcannon: @MasterWalks
[2019-05-31 23:55:47] shockcannon: are you f*cking ready
[2019-05-31 23:55:52] shockcannon: ‹@ddevans96›
[2019-05-31 23:55:54] shockcannon: same with you
[2019-05-31 23:56:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Mobian in Forum Games. Post fit for royalty, but affordable for all!
[2019-05-31 23:56:06] shockcannon: Because the real dump is coming now
[2019-05-31 23:56:13] ddevans96: let's go dude
[2019-05-31 23:56:35] MasterWalks: im ready to rumble
[2019-05-31 23:57:21] shockcannon: rant post first
[2019-05-31 23:57:26] shockcannon: because i'm a little heated
[2019-05-31 23:57:28] shockcannon: info dump after
[2019-05-31 23:58:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. Wanna do a thing?
[2019-05-31 23:58:26] Linkcat: ‹@ddevans96› I would take that bet if the rules allowed it.
[2019-05-31 23:58:36] Wyand:
(5d6) 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 4 = 10 ...
[2019-05-31 23:59:02] Linkcat: Taking a shower and then going to an appointment, won't be too active for a bit.
[2019-05-31 23:59:10] Mobian: No rules against wagers
[2019-05-31 23:59:16] shockcannon: lol
[2019-05-31 23:59:20] shockcannon: "I asked for it"
[2019-05-31 23:59:31] shockcannon: great reason to give immortality to random person
[2019-06-01 00:00:37] Linkcat: Well they obviously have to be townreading me as well.
[2019-06-01 00:01:37] InsignificantWeeaboo:
(5d9) 2 + 2 + 1 + 6 + 8 = 19 ...
[2019-06-01 00:04:47] MasterWalks: Honestly, Linkcat should not have immortality. With no PM's, that anubis is targeting people willy nilly and is assuming Linkcat is town based off read.
[2019-06-01 00:04:52] MasterWalks: Anubis is a scary role
[2019-06-01 00:05:19] MasterWalks: dd is right to not use it
[2019-06-01 00:07:40] kaempfer13: i wonder if mafia anubis would target normal people to make them seem more scummy
[2019-06-01 00:08:13] ddevans96: I think that would be a viable play
[2019-06-01 00:08:20] Calindu: Depends on their roles
[2019-06-01 00:08:41] Calindu: If their roles are not affected by Anubis and it fits the gameplan, I think it would be smart
[2019-06-01 00:08:49] MasterWalks: Psion + Anubis would be a nasty combo. Psion first then anubis
[2019-06-01 00:10:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. The post that refreshes.
[2019-06-01 00:10:04] shockcannon: alright dump time
[2019-06-01 00:13:28] ddevans96: this gon be good
[2019-06-01 00:13:41] Espithel: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
[2019-06-01 00:14:39] Mobian: Shock has made some good points, Espi. Doesn't really absolve him of misleading town, but his concerns are valid
[2019-06-01 00:14:52] Espithel: He has.
[2019-06-01 00:15:11] Espithel: Now that he's actually playing the game and not just faffing about, he's not just the fifth honourary mafia member
[2019-06-01 00:15:35] Mobian: No, but he may still be the 4th
[2019-06-01 00:15:46] kaempfer13: ‹@shockcannon› now can you finally put down those actual reads you claim to have gotten out of the responses to you?
[2019-06-01 00:15:55] MasterWalks: "Now that he's actually playing the game"
[2019-06-01 00:15:58] MasterWalks: Lmao
[2019-06-01 00:16:07] MasterWalks: He hasnt changed anything
[2019-06-01 00:16:17] MasterWalks: Hes just stating why he is doing what hes doing
[2019-06-01 00:16:33] MasterWalks: If shock goes quiet after his dump, its probably pretty harmful to town ngl
[2019-06-01 00:16:46] kaempfer13: did someone actually believe he was gn?
[2019-06-01 00:16:58] Espithel: Yeah, me and Cal jumped the gun bit too hard
[2019-06-01 00:16:59] ddevans96: hi, yes, me
[2019-06-01 00:17:02] MasterWalks: No, no one idi
[2019-06-01 00:17:05] ddevans96: I suspected it MUCH earlier
[2019-06-01 00:18:07] Mobian: Either way, the damage is done. Now, we'll be secondguessing any claims he makes going forward. Sure, he succeeded in sparking conversation, but also put himself under a huge microscope at the same time
[2019-06-01 00:18:54] kaempfer13: yh, no way to interpret his eventual death one way or another with so many contradictions
[2019-06-01 00:19:58] ddevans96: can we talk about the fact that people assumed I was mafia for things that would be extremely risky if I was mafia? and I had to spend literally a day and a half defending myself?
[2019-06-01 00:20:06] ddevans96: microscope has already been on this game
[2019-06-01 00:20:08] Wyand:
(5d6) 6 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 6 = 25 ...!
[2019-06-01 00:21:33] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: how long will this mafia run approximately?
[2019-06-01 00:21:52] InsignificantWeeaboo:
(5d9) 7 + 4 + 4 + 9 + 1 = 25 ...
[2019-06-01 00:22:04] ddevans96: this town has shown they'll hyperfocus things, it's better if 'the microscope' is on someone who most people disregard as rogue
[2019-06-01 00:22:30] Mobian: My gut feeling is on both MW and Espi, tbh.
[2019-06-01 00:22:39] ddevans96: bc eventually it'll fizzle out, you'll either realize 'wow shock is mega town', or he'll out himself as mafia, or he won't matter and everyone will go back to ignoring him (even me this time)
[2019-06-01 00:23:23] MasterWalks: ‹@Mobian› I would like to know what leads you have on espi
[2019-06-01 00:24:07] Espithel: Of course you would
[2019-06-01 00:24:35] Espithel: "Where are the conclusions. What facts do we have that support them?"
[2019-06-01 00:24:37] immortal_feud: if ian pmd me 5pm forum time how long ago was that?
[2019-06-01 00:25:00] Mobian: ‹@MasterWalks› Your actions. You seem to be bussing him a bit too hardcore, and you started it running out the gate. This reminds me of a play Coffee and I made last game, with him trying to hyperaggress on me, and I more or less ignored him, like how Espi is ignoring you
[2019-06-01 00:25:01] ddevans96: 5pm forum time?
[2019-06-01 00:25:23] immortal_feud: 12 Lives Round #3 « Sent to: immortal feud on: Today at 04:55:12 PM »
[2019-06-01 00:25:29] ddevans96: ‹@immortal_feud› http://elementscommunity.org/forum/profile/?a...
[2019-06-01 00:25:36] ddevans96: hit autodetect
[2019-06-01 00:25:46] ddevans96: it'll set the forum time to your local time
[2019-06-01 00:26:02] Mobian: With makes you both suspect in my eyes
[2019-06-01 00:26:21] ddevans96: (it's GMT by default tho)
[2019-06-01 00:26:48] immortal_feud: nice thanks
[2019-06-01 00:27:19] Espithel: I suppose the fact that I'm absolutely adamant that MW is town is an extra layer of that read, Mobian.
[2019-06-01 00:28:07] immortal_feud: werent we gutting back on mafia talk in chat?
[2019-06-01 00:28:59] ddevans96: yeah, gl with that
[2019-06-01 00:29:29] shockcannon: dump halfway done
[2019-06-01 00:29:42] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: it should be banned in future mafias, most players dont really wnat it, it seems
[2019-06-01 00:30:08] immortal_feud: in that case are we still going along with shocks rr plan?
[2019-06-01 00:30:39] MasterWalks: ‹@Mobian› Fair
[2019-06-01 00:30:43] immortal_feud: i think reading chat dumps would be nicer if they were screenshots not copypastes
[2019-06-01 00:31:43] MasterWalks: TL:DR help a lot
[2019-06-01 00:31:49] Espithel: ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› You're sub, right?
[2019-06-01 00:31:51] MasterWalks: but you dont get the nitty gritty details
[2019-06-01 00:31:57] Espithel: Can we just ban chatfia now, or?
[2019-06-01 00:32:01] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: no
[2019-06-01 00:32:02] Espithel: Also @linkcat I guess
[2019-06-01 00:32:14] Espithel: ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› Stop being unimportant >:(
[2019-06-01 00:32:48] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: youre less important than shock
[2019-06-01 00:32:57] Espithel: OOF
[2019-06-01 00:33:02] Mobian: Most discussion happens here, and many of us use chat while mobile. I do think going forward it should be primarily on Discord though
[2019-06-01 00:33:29] Mobian: The thread would be primarily used to cast day votes
[2019-06-01 00:33:36] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: thats even worse
[2019-06-01 00:33:40] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: it ruins mafia
[2019-06-01 00:33:50] Mobian: How?
[2019-06-01 00:33:50] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: i can bet, youll get very low participation if that happened
[2019-06-01 00:33:58] Espithel: ^
[2019-06-01 00:34:15] Espithel: That was Chrysao^ not a mobian^
[2019-06-01 00:34:22] immortal_feud: discord messages arent very dense if you know what i mean
[2019-06-01 00:34:43] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: because not everyone is online to be reading chat
[2019-06-01 00:34:45] MasterWalks: youre dense
[2019-06-01 00:34:47] immortal_feud: i dont think its great if your trying to have everyone read everything in a discord
[2019-06-01 00:34:48] MasterWalks: /s
[2019-06-01 00:34:57] immortal_feud: ‹@MasterWalks› ;_;
[2019-06-01 00:35:01] Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc: Power went out
[2019-06-01 00:35:05] Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc: This is an issue
[2019-06-01 00:35:16] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: and many dont even use discord, thats a separate issue
[2019-06-01 00:35:22] MasterWalks: ‹@Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Do you live in Oklahoma?
[2019-06-01 00:35:34] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: mafia is best when it is only thread limited, with mafia members being allowed to communicate outside
[2019-06-01 00:35:48] Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc: No
[2019-06-01 00:36:23] MasterWalks: ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› oi W3, your brit. Do you listen to brit rap?
[2019-06-01 00:36:36] Mobian: I likely wouldn't play that, as communication is too slow and mobile posting is shit
[2019-06-01 00:36:36] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: no
[2019-06-01 00:36:48] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: Halseys performance at bbmas
[2019-06-01 00:36:51] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: that gives me life
[2019-06-01 00:36:56] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: its perfect
[2019-06-01 00:37:36] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: ‹@Mobian› it is not slow, all you do is post instead of type in chat, and then every person playing can see it, instead of restricting the talk to people online at that time
[2019-06-01 00:38:07] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35:
halse
[2019-06-01 00:38:09] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: y
[2019-06-01 00:38:36] Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35: (watch the vid too, dont just listen)
[2019-06-01 00:40:53] Wyand:
(5d6) 3 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 16 ...
[2019-06-01 00:41:30] Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc: WiFi coming back soon
[2019-06-01 00:41:35] Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc: Post is ready though
[2019-06-01 00:42:45] shockcannon: ayy
[2019-06-01 00:44:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from Linkcat in Forum Games. Post of champions.
[2019-06-01 00:44:37] shockcannon: alright kids
[2019-06-01 00:44:38] shockcannon: have fun
[2019-06-01 00:44:43] shockcannon: my watch has ended
[2019-06-01 00:46:01] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from shockcannon in Forum Games. This post tastes good.
[2019-06-01 00:47:11] InsignificantWeeaboo:
(5d9) 3 + 3 + 7 + 1 + 8 = 22 ...
[2019-06-01 00:49:49] Espithel: You didn't throw the game.
[2019-06-01 00:49:53] Espithel: That much is certain.
[2019-06-01 00:50:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from kaempfer13 in Forum Games. Good to the last word.
[2019-06-01 00:50:49] shockcannon: i misused the word disclosed
[2019-06-01 00:50:53] shockcannon: i meant to say secret
[2019-06-01 00:53:02] Wyand: gn to all
[2019-06-01 00:54:51] MasterWalks: Hey kaempf
[2019-06-01 00:54:56] MasterWalks: whats up with the empty spoiler
[2019-06-01 00:55:30] kaempfer13: reference to one of shocks posts
[2019-06-01 00:55:50] MasterWalks: Oh his post with empty spoilers. Gotcha
[2019-06-01 00:55:59] kaempfer13: actually putting everything in would exceed the character limit
[2019-06-01 00:58:18] kaempfer13: I suggest everyone who jumped the gun retracts their vote for this day, so that voting on anyone else doesnt seem pointless
[2019-06-01 00:59:00] kaempfer13: the day has just started, you can put your vote back in later in the exact same state but at least allow for other options
[2019-06-01 00:59:47] kaempfer13: note that both people that are voted on have my attention as potentially bad for town
[2019-06-01 01:00:21] kaempfer13: but we need to allow the others to contribute their own thoughts
[2019-06-01 01:02:02] AveragePotato: The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine from dawn to dusk in Forum Games. Sharp minds, sharp posts.
[2019-06-01 01:04:14] shockcannon: chat got quiet lol
[2019-06-01 01:04:20] shockcannon: ‹@kaempfer13› you should prob just make a post
[2019-06-01 01:04:23] shockcannon: also gotta head out
[2019-06-01 01:04:26] shockcannon: peace kiddos
[2019-06-01 01:04:28] ddevans96: dd's head hurts too much to talk about mafia rn

Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on May 31, 2019, 11:34:26 pm
Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, ddevans96
shockcannon (2) - Calindu, Mobian
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Mobian on May 31, 2019, 11:48:18 pm
Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, ddevans96
shockcannon (1) - Calindu
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (1) - Mobian

For reasons posted in chatlog.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on June 01, 2019, 12:02:34 am
I like kaempfer's post a lot, kind of townreading him now. I feel like I have too many townreads and not enough scumreads. Will do a readslist when I can.

A vote breakdown would be great.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: immortal feud on June 01, 2019, 12:05:03 am
I'll be brief and annotate.

- I'm GN and have checked ian and Linkcat.
- Linkcat is mafia
- I'm fairly certain mafia has psion and mindflayer
- I think it's likely that they discovered JCJs role n0
- I think the random moehrpi vote on JCJ was highly suspicious. Could be mafia throwing it out just to see if it gains traction without any pushing of it (which it did)
- Insig using warden last night was also suspicious but I think he's town. Again, I don't think mafia let themselves get into a situation where they're being voted up. Likely all the prime suspects so far have been town. This clears Insig and ddevans for me. Could be bussing but why bus if your team isn't even close to being on the radar
- Linkcat being mafia clears Espithel in my opinion
- ian said he had info to dump had he lived. To me this means a couple possible options. 1.) He lied about being blocked N0 and found some info. 2.) Insig actually blocked D2D N1 when targeting ddevans and ian was either roleblocked again (giving him info that there was a mind flayer or 2nd warden out there) or he hit a protected/untargetable player.

I've got some more hard info to share later, but I want votes on Linkcat for now.
Also, I want some thoughts on the following players that I find highly suspicious and likely mafia:

moehrpi
immortal_feud
mathman101
can only assume its because of inactivity. this is my first  mafia and im not sure what im doing also last 3 days ive been in bed with the flu hence the more recent inactivity
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on June 01, 2019, 12:09:45 am

[00:47:19]
‹ddevans96› ‹@immortal_feud› do you have other lynch targets in mind?
‹immortal_feud› Not really. Don't think link is mafia, and shock is too much fun to get rid of even if he is mafia.
‹MasterWalks› Vote espi then.
‹ddevans96› What do you think about Espi, moe, kae?
‹immortal_feud› How do you feel about shock and link, dd?
‹ddevans96› Medium-high town read on shock. Light mafia read on Link.
‹immortal_feud› Got a read on me dd?

-

‹Espithel› ‹@immortal_feud› You're too quiet to read, right now. I'm actually pretty surprised you survived the nightkill - the mafia are definitely lynching "inactive" players.
‹immortal_feud› Yeah, thought so. Didn't stop shock thinking inactivity was scummy. If inactives keep getting NK'd and then an active gets NK'd does that mean the remaining inactives are mafia?
‹Espithel› You can certainly push it that way, but you have to be careful. I think they're trying to kill the graboid, or find the golden nymph. The alternative is they're setting up some kind of toxic association; If they start killing active people, then it might be to silence that person, or to associate all the other inactives as scummy when they're not. It'd be on a case by case basis.
‹immortal_feud› does burrow not protect against NK?
‹Mobian› you are correct

-

‹ddevans96› [2019-05-31 17:52:51] ‹immortal_feud› got a read on me dd? < no, you've done very little in this game and what you have done reveals nothing. It is probable that one of the lower-activity players is mafia, but I have no reason to suspect you in particular.
‹immortal_feud› nice, sounds like im safe

-

‹ddevans96› [2019-05-31 17:55:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› whats your reads on kaempf, me, and ginyu? < neutral-light mafia on kae. light town on you. light town on Ginyu.
‹MasterWalks› Kaempf is town. Like he is my most town read at the moment.
‹ddevans96› what in particular makes you say that?
‹MasterWalks› He is completely understandable and relate-able when pressured about the awkward thing. He is making honest reads imo and now i would say he is playing like a town would now that he is acclimated to mafia
‹immortal_feud› this is kaes first mafia too yeah?
‹MasterWalks› yep
‹ddevans96› hm
‹ddevans96› interesting
[01:06:31]
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: MasterWalks on June 01, 2019, 12:35:10 am
@RootRanger I need you scum reads. Besides the shock hate, i have no idea who youre looking at. You bashed shock for not helping town so lets see you help town and share some reads
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Espithel on June 01, 2019, 12:45:00 am
[01:09:22]
‹Espithel› ‹@ddevans96› Could you elaborate your ginyu town read? Ginyu's not been talked about pretty much at all.

‹ddevans96› Just gut feeling, really. I can't point to any one specific thing about Ginyu that makes me lean town. Just a vibe.
‹ddevans96› Rereading key posts, yeah, I think Walks is right, I retract my mafia lean on Kae. Only neutral for me though, not town yet. need a bit more [info]. To clarify, it moves from 'mafia if I have to choose' to 'town if I have to choose'. So just the other side of neutral.

-

‹ddevans96› what's everyone's reads on me rn?
‹Espithel› I think the mafia is completely happy with the state of the town right now, Which implies you're town.
‹Linkcat› Neutral still
‹immortal_feud› granted my reads are prob trash but i think ur town
‹MasterWalks› I have no idea what my read on you is. Espi says i need to stop saying experienced, but if you are mafia, you are "experienced" enough to hide very very well. I will go back and examine your posts more when I'm off work. I still think you should be the one every night everyone is vote hopping on until we have more concrete evidence.
‹Espithel› Root's the most experienced mafia player here. :^)

‹shockcannon› These questions are a waste of time!

-

‹ddevans96› "I still think you should be the one every night everyone is vote hopping on until we have more concrete evidence" < what do you mean, and why?
‹MasterWalks› Because I don't think pressure should be lifted off you yet. I want you on your toes. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing Linkcat take your place as the vote hopped, Since it seems like we have got quite a bit of info from you already. I say we start putting pressure on link.
‹ddevans96› I start the game on my toes, doesn't matter how much pressure you put on me, but fair. Remember that Link set this whole process in motion by pressuring me d1; Only makes sense that he gets a strong look at, because this is an oddly under the radar game for him (and...also for Root, funnily enough)
I guess looking at the post counts, maybe not that much for Link.

-

‹Mobian› RIP D2D
‹dawn_to_dusk› :(

-

‹MasterWalks› Root is very weird this game. He is so focused on shock that its "tunnel visioning" him
‹Linkcat› I think this level of activity is normal for Root, a little less for me but I've been busy.
[01:40:26]
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on June 01, 2019, 10:42:06 am
[15:41:30] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› WiFi coming back soon
[15:41:35] ‹Guest-MinorVampire-8edcc› Post is ready though
[15:42:45] ‹shockcannon› ayy
[15:44:37] ‹shockcannon› alright kids
[15:44:38] ‹shockcannon› have fun
[15:44:43] ‹shockcannon› my watch has ended
[15:49:49] ‹Espithel› You didn't throw the game.
[15:49:53] ‹Espithel› That much is certain.
[15:50:49] ‹shockcannon› i misused the word disclosed
[15:50:53] ‹shockcannon› i meant to say secret
[15:53:02] ‹Wyand› gn to all
[15:54:51] ‹MasterWalks› Hey kaempf
[15:54:56] ‹MasterWalks› whats up with the empty spoiler
[15:55:30] ‹kaempfer13› reference to one of shocks posts
[15:55:50] ‹MasterWalks› Oh his post with empty spoilers. Gotcha
[15:55:59] ‹kaempfer13› actually putting everything in would exceed the character limit
[15:58:18] ‹kaempfer13› I suggest everyone who jumped the gun retracts their vote for this day, so that voting on anyone else doesnt seem pointless
[15:59:00] ‹kaempfer13› the day has just started, you can put your vote back in later in the exact same state but at least allow for other options
[15:59:47] ‹kaempfer13› note that both people that are voted on have my attention as potentially bad for town
[16:00:21] ‹kaempfer13› but we need to allow the others to contribute their own thoughts
[16:04:14] ‹shockcannon› chat got quiet lol
[16:04:20] ‹shockcannon› ‹@kaempfer13› you should prob just make a post
[16:04:23] ‹shockcannon› also gotta head out
[16:04:26] ‹shockcannon› peace kiddos
[16:04:28] ‹ddevans96› dd's head hurts too much to talk about mafia rn
[16:04:58] • Espithel fucking smashes evan's face in with a sledgehammer
[16:05:33] ‹Espithel› You gotta build up that pain tolerance
[16:12:08] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@kaempfer13› "potentially bad for town." Like the people themselves are bad for town or lynching tehm is bad for town?
[16:19:05] ‹kaempfer13› darn i almost had the tl;dr chatlog ready
[16:19:30] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@MasterWalks› their actions may or may not be
[16:20:10] ‹kaempfer13› clarification could help
[16:20:51] ‹immortal_feud› how are roles rolled for mafia
[16:21:07] ‹Mobian› Straight random
[16:21:11] ‹MasterWalks› 4d19
[16:21:18] ‹immortal_feud› is every role dished out before duplicates
[16:21:20] ‹MasterWalks› i actually dont know
[16:21:31] ‹immortal_feud› ok so it is possible to have 0 of one roll and 3 of another
[16:21:36] ‹Espithel› I'd imagine it'd go like this:
[16:21:56] ‹Espithel› First off, roll 4d19, Those players become mafia.
[16:21:59] ‹Mobian› "mobian =1dx"
[16:22:15] ‹Mobian› x= # of roles
[16:22:21] ‹Espithel› Then roll 1d19. If that player is not mafia, they become the golden nymph. If they are, reroll.
[16:22:40] ‹Espithel› Then, for each player, Roll 1d20. 20 is the number of roles in this game (I think)
[16:22:44] ‹Espithel› They gain that role.
[16:22:53] ‹immortal_feud› or even 1d/15 fro GN
[16:23:54] ‹Espithel› Yeah, that'd work. The maths is the same.
[16:30:04] ‹kaempfer13› ‹@Espithel› Oh sorry missed the bit where you said you post the whole chatlog at the end
[16:37:43] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[16:40:02] ‹MasterWalks›
[16:42:31] ‹dawn_to_dusk› I am so sad I died
[16:43:11] ‹MasterWalks› I have a shoulder
[16:47:16] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@dawn_to_dusk› we can talk
[16:47:19] ‹ddevans96› ‹@immortal_feud› do you have other lynch targets in mind?
[16:47:55] ‹immortal_feud› not really
[16:48:13] ‹immortal_feud› dont think link is mafia
[16:48:28] ‹immortal_feud› and shock is too much fun to get rid of even if he is mafia
[16:48:46] ‹MasterWalks› Vote espi then.
[16:50:03] ‹ddevans96› what do you think about Espi, moe, kae?
[16:50:29] ‹immortal_feud› how do you feel about shock and link dd?
[16:50:50] ‹MyNameIsJoey› guys, you're totally going the wrong way here
[16:50:55] ‹MyNameIsJoey› IM the mafia, obviously.
[16:51:17] ‹dawn_to_dusk› Vote Joey guys
[16:51:21] ‹MasterWalks› ji412jo (1) - MasterWalks
[16:51:22] ‹ddevans96› medium-high town read on shock. light mafia read on Link
[16:51:35] ‹MasterWalks› I dont remember the 3 numbers in the middle
[16:51:45] ‹ddevans96› you got them right
[16:51:53] ‹MasterWalks› oh wow
[16:52:33] ‹MyNameIsJoey› I've talked under that name in chat for so long that evans probably remembers them better than the ones in his own username :sillyspin:
[16:52:51] ‹immortal_feud› got a read on me dd?
[16:52:59] ‹Espithel› ji412jo (2) - MasterWalks, Espithel
[16:53:12] ‹Espithel› ‹@immortal_feud› You're too quiet to read, right now.
[16:53:34] ‹Espithel› I'm actually pretty surprised you survived the nightkill - the mafia are definitely lynching "inactive" players
[16:53:47] ‹immortal_feud› yeah thought so
[16:54:13] ‹immortal_feud› didnt stop shock thinking inactivity was scummy
[16:55:00] ‹immortal_feud› if inactives keep getting NK'd and then an active gets NK'd does that mean the remaining inactives are mafia?
[16:55:24] ‹Espithel› You can certainly push it that way, but you have to be careful.
[16:55:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› whats your reads on kaempf, me, and ginyu?
[16:56:01] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo› ji412jo (3) - MasterWalks, Espithel, InsignificantWeeaboo
[16:56:09] ‹Espithel› I think they're trying to kill the graboid, or find the golden nymph.
[16:57:35] ‹immortal_feud› does burrow not protect against NK?
[16:58:52] ‹Mobian› you are correct
[16:59:10] ‹InsignificantWeeaboo›
[16:59:27] ‹Espithel› The alternative is they're setting up some kind of toxic association
[16:59:38] ‹ddevans96› ‹@MyNameIsJoey› you were born in the year 20412? :silly:
[16:59:49] ‹ddevans96› er, 19412 for the joke, but...rabble rabble
[17:00:38] ‹Espithel› If they start killing active people, then it might be to silence that person, or to associate all the other inactives as scummy when they're not.
[17:00:51] ‹Espithel› It'd be on a case by case basis.
[17:00:56] ‹Espithel› ‹@ddevans96› [00:55:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› whats your reads on kaempf, me, and ginyu?
[17:01:07] ‹ddevans96› quiet, I'm getting there
[17:01:27] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-31 17:52:51] ‹immortal_feud› got a read on me dd? < no, you've done very little in this game and what you have done reveals nothing
[17:01:44] ‹ddevans96› it is probable that one of the lower-activity players is mafia, but I have no reason to suspect you in particular
[17:02:04] ‹immortal_feud› nice, sounds like im safe
[17:02:28] ‹ddevans96› [2019-05-31 17:55:52] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› whats your reads on kaempf, me, and ginyu? < neutral-light mafia on kae. light town on you. light town on Ginyu
[17:02:47] ‹MasterWalks› Kaempf is town
[17:02:58] ‹MasterWalks› Like he is my most town read at the moment.
[17:03:03] ‹MasterWalks› Besides myself
[17:03:16] ‹ddevans96› what in particular makes you say that?
[17:05:11] ‹MasterWalks› He is completely understandable and relate-able when pressured about the awkward thing. He is making honest reads imo and now i would say he is playing like a town would now that he is acclimated to mafia
[17:05:41] ‹immortal_feud› this is kaes first mafia too yeah?
[17:05:46] ‹MasterWalks› yep
[17:06:28] ‹ddevans96› hm
[17:06:31] ‹ddevans96› interesting
[17:06:38] ‹MyNameIsJoey› that mafia talk almost makes me want to join
[17:06:46] ‹MyNameIsJoey› except it looks too time consuming
[17:06:52] ‹MyNameIsJoey› (join next one, obviously is what i meant)
[17:07:06] ‹immortal_feud› wait hmm did i ever post round2 12 lives dewkc
[17:07:13] ‹immortal_feud› decks*
[17:07:58] ‹immortal_feud› ok i did good
[17:09:22] ‹Espithel› ‹@ddevans96› Could you elaborate your ginyu town read?
[17:09:29] ‹Espithel› Ginyu's not been talked about pretty much at all
[17:11:36] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Espithel› I like your blab post method
[17:12:05] ‹Espithel› Thank you.
[17:12:18] ‹Espithel› The idea's to get it as close to a "normal forum post" as possible
[17:13:01] ‹immortal_feud› still think screenies are the way to go
[17:13:16] ‹immortal_feud› gets all those pretty colours
[17:13:41] ‹ddevans96› just gut feeling, really
[17:13:57] ‹ddevans96› I can't point to any one specific thing about Ginyu that makes me lean town
[17:13:58] ‹ddevans96› just a vibe
[17:14:35] ‹ddevans96› and yeah, this method is really good, I'll be doing the same
[17:14:37] ‹ddevans96› or attempting to
[17:15:13] ‹ddevans96› rereading key posts, yeah, I think you're right, I retract my mafia lean on kae
[17:15:16] ‹immortal_feud› well it is edited tho
[17:15:20] ‹ddevans96› only neutral for me though, not town yet. need a bit more
[17:15:48] ‹immortal_feud› cut to make it relevant to me
[17:16:10] ‹ddevans96› to clarify, it moves from 'neutral' to 'neutral', just 'mafia if I have to choose' to 'town if I have to choose'
[17:16:16] ‹ddevans96› so just the other side of neutral
[17:16:43] ‹ddevans96› what's everyone's reads on me rn?
[17:17:07] ‹Espithel› I think the mafia is completely happy with the state of the town right now
[17:17:07] ‹Linkcat› Neutral still
[17:17:11] ‹Espithel› Which implies you're town
[17:17:24] ‹shockcannon› these questions are a waste of time
[17:17:44] ‹shockcannon› also
[17:17:48] ‹shockcannon› i need playeroa
[17:17:49] ‹shockcannon› where is he
[17:17:52] ‹immortal_feud› granted my reads are prob trash but i think ur town
[17:17:54] ‹ddevans96› Norway
[17:18:07] ‹MyNameIsJoey› Like fippe?
[17:18:08] ‹MyNameIsJoey› Kappa
[17:19:24] ‹MasterWalks› I have no idea what my read on you is. Espi says i need to stop saying experienced, but if you are mafia, you are "experienced" enough to hide very very well. I will go back and examine your posts more when im off work. I still think you should be the one every night everyone is vote hopping on until we have more concrete evidence
[17:20:19] ‹Espithel› Root's the most experienced mafia player here
[17:20:20] ‹Espithel› :^)
[17:20:23] ‹immortal_feud› is that @dd MW?
[17:20:42] ‹ddevans96› I still think you should be the one every night everyone is vote hopping on until we have more concrete evidence < what do you mean, and why?
[17:20:44] ‹immortal_feud› i thought dd had played more mafia than anyone
[17:20:57] ‹ddevans96› on these forums, yeah
[17:21:11] ‹ddevans96› Root has some experience with strategic games elsewhere, though
[17:21:18] ‹Espithel› Root's pretty infamous for fucking breaking half the mafias he played
[17:21:32] ‹Espithel› Remember when we had like 6 mass roleclaims in six games?
[17:21:47] ‹ddevans96› [half of those mafias were badly designed]
[17:21:53] ‹ddevans96› [in hindsight]
[17:21:57] ‹shockcannon› how ironic
[17:22:00] ‹Espithel› [[This is true but c'mon]]
[17:22:04] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@immortal_feud› yes
[17:22:21] ‹MyNameIsJoey› To be honest
[17:22:32] ‹MyNameIsJoey› you don't need to add 99 new rules to make a new good mafia.
[17:22:44] ‹MyNameIsJoey› Hell you can play basic mafia 10 times in a row and get 10 different games.
[17:22:47] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MyNameIsJoey› join my forum game
[17:22:51] ‹shockcannon› not nearly as time consuming
[17:23:18] ‹Espithel› ‹@shockcannon› I'm referring to "true" roleclaims, btw. Where PMs are allowed, you could have someone claim cop (GN), force everyone to tell you their role or die, and keep the cop protected with a doctor
[17:23:27] ‹MyNameIsJoey› ‹@shockcannon› I just read rule 1 and I already don't feel like playing.
[17:23:27] ‹ddevans96› I've played the most games here, but I wouldn't say I was good at mafia until, like...30 or 40
[17:23:38] ‹ddevans96› idk, was a long, long time ago
[17:23:42] ‹Espithel› It's a broken strat if you can guarantee the safety of the cop
[17:23:50] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@ddevans96› Because i dont think pressure should be lifted off you yet. I want you on your toes. In fact, I wouldnt mind seeing Linkcat take your place as the vote hopped.
[17:24:18] ‹MasterWalks› Since it seems like we have got quite a bit of info from you already, i say we start putting pressure on link.
[17:24:59] ‹ddevans96› I start the game on my toes, doesn't matter how much pressure you put on me
[17:25:00] ‹ddevans96› but fair
[17:25:51] ‹ddevans96› reminder that Link set this whole process in motion by pressuring me d1
[17:25:59] ‹ddevans96› only makes sense that he gets a strong look at
[17:26:14] ‹ddevans96› bc this is an oddly under the radar game for him (and...also for Root, funnily enough)
[17:27:23] ‹ddevans96› I guess looking at the post counts, maybe not that much for Link
[17:28:20] ‹Mobian› RIP D2D
[17:28:31] ‹dawn_to_dusk› :(
[17:28:55] ‹Guest-Graboid-0dbfb› Hi
[17:30:47] ‹MyNameIsJoey› so shock, i just read the remaining of the rules, and no thanks.
[17:31:13] ‹shockcannon› ok
[17:31:39] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› I WANT TO TALK MAFIA TO DEAD CIVS BUT THEY AINT HERE
[17:31:58] ‹ddevans96› send them forum PMs
[17:32:02] ‹MasterWalks› ‹@Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› They migthve made a dead civ discord channel
[17:32:16] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› i dont want to talk that badly XD
[17:32:21] ‹MasterWalks› We almost did that last game but by the time we organized it game was over
[17:32:31] ‹Guest-Chrysaora-9ce35› ‹@MasterWalks› nah, they aint that bothered im p sure
[17:33:28] ‹MasterWalks› Root i very weird this game. He is so focused on shock that its "tunnel visioning" him
[17:34:26] ‹MyNameIsJoey› also, thing with forum mafias is
[17:34:36] ‹MyNameIsJoey› the amount of time one can input compared to another influences reads.
[17:40:26] ‹Linkcat› I think this level of activity is normal for Root, a little less for me but I've been busy.
[17:51:14] ‹Linkcat› Root is great at mechanics but he doesn't believe in reads. Those are the main two halves of the game, so as the average skill in reading advances, he gets relatively worse at the game. So my hot take is that Root isn't actually that good at mafia, but the casual level of play and breakable setups made him one of the best players.
[17:52:02] ‹Espithel› "He doesn't believe in reads"
[17:52:04] ‹Espithel› Is that, like
[17:52:06] ‹Espithel› As a concept or
[17:52:52] ‹shockcannon› 1 word
[17:52:54] ‹shockcannon› NoobRanger
[17:57:34] ‹Linkcat› Reading based on anything but hard information.
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: Linkcat on June 01, 2019, 12:19:11 pm
I want to do a full re-read of the thread, but for now here's my current reads list. I ask every living player to make one of these.

(Villager, Neutral, Wolf, goes from towniest to scummiest)

vv
Shock - See my recent post.

v
MW - Bad town.
Insig - Bad town.

n+
Calin - Playing well and healthily contributing to discussion. I agree with most of what he says.
kaempfer - Really seems to be coming from a town point of view.

n
immortal feud - Inactive, has been sick, seems confused as either alignment. His townreads are me and my biggest townread, so that's good.
Ginyu - Semi-active, would like to see him push some lynches.
dd - Probably town if he's telling the truth about his role, for now could easily be town or mafia.
Mobian - Honestly hasn't made much of an impression.
moehrpi - Has been semi-active but started contributing more, realistic play for a first timer of either alignment.
Espithel - Has been fairly towny but I believe scum Espithel would do all this shit.

n-
Root - Been getting weird vibes from him for most of the game.
math - Super inactive, could easily be mafia laying low.
Coffee - Super inactive, actually should have been modkilled.

w

ww

Now that I finally got around to doing this, you'll see the same problem I do. With kaempfer moving to a town lean, I have no actual scumreads. It's pretty hard to find a 4-man team out of this list, but I have a general idea.

I believe that mafia has been mostly hanging back, and if they have been in the spotlight then it's the people I have the hardest time reading. (Espi/dd, even both is not off the table)

Two are in the low profile group: feud, Ginyu, moehrpi, math, Coffee
Two are in the rest that I'm not townreading: Calin, kaempfer, Mobian, Espi, Root

Will definitely need to examine votes to find possible relationships. Right now I'm okay with a lynch on anyone in my n or n- groups. It's hard to get a proper POE with this amount of low activity players and all the people not voting. I'm going to pressure the least active player that shouldn't already be dead. We need everyone to be active at this stage of the game. I keep pushing and nothing is giving. I just need one breakthrough and this game will be blown wide open.

Linkcat (2) - shockcannon, ddevans96
shockcannon (1) - Calindu
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
MasterWalks (1) - Mobian
mathman101 (1) - Linkcat

@mathman101
Title: Re: Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine
Post by: kaempfer13 on June 01, 2019, 12:35:10 pm
Reposting reasoning makes this too big, so just the raw votes for now.
Here the lynchlog:
Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13
(in order)

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96<