Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou

[rob77dp]

You selected fabian right? Well, I'd rather see him die and get lynched because he flips town because I've just had a scumread on him from the time he was targeted. Did you get told the name of the ability that targeted you rob?

I'm not sure what your first several statements are trying to convey, gino, but my response to your last question is that the ability name that forced me to speak gibberish was TRANQUILIZER DART.

[Submachine]

fabian > Sub/JCJ -- that's my suggestions given my current POE from my post here.

I guess you left out kdz because you plan to vote him during the day phase? (That's probably why you didn't write Coffee's name here, so I assume.) Or you changed your mind/forgot about him. Source:

Overlaying this with my own reads I arrive at this POE:
Coffee > kdz >> JCJ/Sub >> gino.

I suspect kdz to be Intel. Last Intel member miiiight be gino or UTA... ?

Second Jailor can only be dawn or JCJ. Assuming that there IS a second Jailor and that Jailor is harmful, I'd suggest hitting one of them next.
(this is the Occam's razor rundown. If there is no second Jailor, then gino is criminal, and if rob faked his jailed day, then he is the criminal. Occam's razor says both scenarios are unlikely)

If I am going to be targeted by Hitman secondary ability, I will at least reveal my role and information in advance, so do notify me. But just for the sake of Town wincon, keep me alive please.

[Submachine]

(Removed Sub b/c "No Vote" isn't a thing.)

You are actually wrong about this. Check addendum 3/7 (the second one).

I was looking for Night plan for roles, but I only found this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-68-by-kuroaitou/msg1260556/#msg1260556
, which only applies to odd nights as far as I'm concerned.

Can I get an updated version for even nights? Also, can we add that no role should target UTA? He will be immune to everything.

[rob77dp]

fabian > Sub/JCJ -- that's my suggestions given my current POE from my post here.

I guess you left out kdz because you plan to vote him during the day phase? (That's probably why you didn't write Coffee's name here, so I assume.) Or you changed your mind/forgot about him. Source:

Overlaying this with my own reads I arrive at this POE:
Coffee > kdz >> JCJ/Sub >> gino.

If it was not delayed-kill by the Hitman ability being discussed then Coffee/kdz would be higher up the list. You are correct in surmising that I left out those names because I think they need to be LYNCH targets if possible.

I suspect kdz to be Intel. Last Intel member miiiight be gino or UTA... ? I'm not able to put my finger on it right now but something about these statements from Sub feels off to me... ...

Second Jailor can only be dawn or JCJ. Assuming that there IS a second Jailor and that Jailor is harmful, I'd suggest hitting one of them next. Please show your work on how you're deducing or strongly suspecting dawn or JCJ as a 2nd Jailor. I am aware gino has claimed Jailor and NOT to be targeting fabian (if fabian isn't faking) or myself (I wasn't faking).
(this is the Occam's razor rundown. If there is no second Jailor, then gino is criminal, and if rob faked his jailed day, then he is the criminal. Occam's razor says both scenarios are unlikely)

If I am going to be targeted by Hitman secondary ability, I will at least reveal my role and information in advance, so do notify me. But just for the sake of Town wincon, keep me alive please.This is pretty suspicious response. Town win-con is aided by finding and lynching/killing the Criminals not by simply staying alive. A hyper focus on wanting to not die simply to not die is a mindset scum are susceptible to having and it is what I see from you here.

I made some comments above in blue bold.

Is there any general consensus on whether mathman should claim who he is targeting near the end of each Night Phase? This would force a possible Criminal doctor, if the hitman target were Criminal, to decide between healing them _or_ allowing them to die. That is, if they don't die at the appointed time per hitman ability then the likelihood that they are a Criminal increases along with the chances there is a Criminal!doctor in the game.

[rob77dp]

@ Submachine...

A couple other posts related to "Night action plans"...

from rob tweaking UTA's info

UTA additional edit to rob's post


I'm still noticing your lack of "Night action plan" ideas this game, Sub. I don't find it to be leaning me either way about your alignment but I'm struggling to let it go so just ruminating on it more for a while.

[killsdazombies]

@rob, at this point, I think it's relatively safe to assume I'm the only doctor, or there is a second, mafiadoc. (With 10 roles, 18 players, if the spread was even we would have 2 roles singleton.) But at this point, the game is winding down quickly, fabians death it appears will trigger tomorrow? Night? (Since he was hit last nighy I assume, and I assume the night he is hit doesn't count as one of the two nights he has) which, if that is the case means that anyone math targets tonight will likely die in a pretty late phase

[rob77dp]

@killsdazombies - OK. Where do you want to take this interaction of ours? You just seem to be waffling around and wanting not to suspect players and not to have killing abilities used much/if-at-all...

(Also it would be nice if you started targeting players that are being NK'd instead of not. )

[killsdazombies]

I'm not saying we don't target someone, I just don't think it's wise to say "let's see what they flip when they die 3 phases from now"

Why don't you let me know who you target then

/sarcasm eND

I've targeted players I've viewed as targets that night, linkcat for example night one, while also attempting maximize the amount of people aware of my presence, the only exception to thay being uta last night, as if he had gotten my ping last nighy it would mean coffee never protected him, and it would protect coffee from nking uta while not protecting him (and likely claiming jailor hit at the same time, since a strongly suspect a crime jailor) my targets have been calculated, and measured. Just because I haven't targeted you doesn't mean I'm not a doctor.

[rob77dp]

I'm not saying we don't target someone, I just don't think it's wise to say "let's see what they flip when they die 3 phases from now"

Why don't you let me know who you target then

/sarcasm eND

I've targeted players I've viewed as targets that night, linkcat for example night one, while also attempting maximize the amount of people aware of my presence, the only exception to thay being uta last night, as if he had gotten my ping last nighy it would mean coffee never protected him, and it would protect coffee from nking uta while not protecting him (and likely claiming jailor hit at the same time, since a strongly suspect a crime jailor) my targets have been calculated, and measured. Just because I haven't targeted you doesn't mean I'm not a doctor.

I'm not too concerned with your lack of targeting me, honestly. Your role mentions nothing about restricting repeating of your target every night. If you thought Link was a good first night doctor-target what did Link and/or JCJ do on the subsequent day to convince you to switch OFF of Cop-claiming Link??

[Submachine]

I'm not able to put my finger on it right now but something about these statements from Sub feels off to me... ... - You wouldn't be the first one to assign indecisiveness as a scumread. Maybe that's what you feel. You would understand me more if you saw my method of filling out blank informations, which I'm gonna attempt outside of this quoteception.

Second Jailor can only be dawn or JCJ. Assuming that there IS a second Jailor and that Jailor is harmful, I'd suggest hitting one of them next. Please show your work on how you're deducing or strongly suspecting dawn or JCJ as a 2nd Jailor. I am aware gino has claimed Jailor and NOT to be targeting fabian (if fabian isn't faking) or myself (I wasn't faking).
(this is the Occam's razor rundown. If there is no second Jailor, then gino is criminal, and if rob faked his jailed day, then he is the criminal. Occam's razor says both scenarios are unlikely)
This is the Occam's razor rundown, which requires: Rule 1: Believe in role claims. Even in such a non-disclosed setup, it's far easier to claim your own role than keeping up a lie about another one. There's no real reason to fake your role when secondaries are unrelated to primaries. This rules out UTAlan (Refugee), kdz (Docter), gino (other Jailer), Sol (Politician), Coffee (Bg) and math (Hitman). Rule 2: Believe in testimonies. It's just more simple to keep up an alibi without lying about anything, even though this is definitely fakeable. But remember, this is the Occam's Razor rundown. This also rules out fabian (jailed by supposedly-not-gino) and rob (same). Rule 3: add personal information to the mix. This rules out me (plus I can quite easily soft-confirm what my actual role is for any of you who think I could be a Jailor).

This is pretty suspicious response. Town win-con is aided by finding and lynching/killing the Criminals not by simply staying alive. A hyper focus on wanting to not die simply to not die is a mindset scum are susceptible to having and it is what I see from you here.
This is not suspicious if you consider how great ** **** is at ********** ****** when there is only *** ***** ****. I strongly believe that win-con lies within roles, especially late-game.

Is there any general consensus on whether mathman should claim who he is targeting near the end of each Night Phase? This would force a possible Criminal doctor, if the hitman target were Criminal, to decide between healing them _or_ allowing them to die. That is, if they don't die at the appointed time per hitman ability then the likelihood that they are a Criminal increases along with the chances there is a Criminal!doctor in the game.
That's... actually a good point about a Criminal Doctor. If kdz was a criminal, he would protect his teammate and the other person would just claim that he was successfully targeted. We would only find about this when it would be too late. Let's make sure that kdz actually targets someone on the more confirmed side? Robbo or math would be great targets. Because in that case, the person can confirm being notified about the healing.

Did some quoteception responsefest. Now I'll try to present what I was doing off-screen.

Spoiler for Step 1:

Assess the blanks:
2 Mafia: ..., ...
2 Intel: ..., ...
7 Town: ..., ..., ..., ..., ..., ..., ...

Spoiler for Step 2:

Fill in with top (or most popular) reads:
2 Mafia: ..., ...
2 Intel: ..., ...
7 Town: UTA, rob, math, ..., ..., ..., ...

Spoiler for Step 3:

Listen to your guts a bit and try to fill in as many blanks as you can:
2 Mafia: ..., ...
2 Intel: kdz, gino
7 Town: UTA, rob, math, Sol, ..., ..., ...

Spoiler for Step 4:

Remember that you are playing too and consider that UTA can be Intel. Also try to fill in the rest of the blanks:
2 Mafia: Coffee, ...
2 Intel: kdz, UTA
7 Town: Sub, rob, math, Sol, JCJ, ..., ...

And that's how my thought process went on for quite some time. It's a masterpiece compared to what I thought I would do when I started playing the game. With all that rust and stuff. (i just wanted to introduce a new meme, give me a break .-.)

[Submachine]

dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
Solaris (4) - Solaris, Submachine, rob77dp, worldwideweb3
ddevans96 (1) - fabian771
Submachine (5) - DoubleCapitals, Killsdazombies, Coffeeditto, JonathanCrazyJ, Espithel
Linkcat (1) - Linkcat
mathman101 (1) - ddevans96


Can't be bothered to explain when it's going to require 10 more presses of the post buttons
Invisitext is cancer, using it automatically makes you filth

REALLY telling vote here, perhaps.

Espithel putting Sub above the recently tied Solaris and mentioning he didn't want to explain... explaining has nothing to do with how many clicks of "Submit" you have to do, either.

Also, almost clearing of Sub not being a Criminal.

Digging this up in my defense. This is really the best defense anyone found for me so far in this game.

[rob77dp]

W3 is going to flip town because Sol and Link are mafia.

If Coffee flips and is Criminal I want to clear Sol based almost entirely on this.