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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131106#msg131106
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 05:14:43 PM »
Added the 2 new development cards shortbow/nightmare. So surprised 19 votes, yet no responses.
History


Schrödinger's Cat (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16601.new#new)
Soul Catcher (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16666.0.html)
Crusader (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17243.0.html)
Silence (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17264.0.html)
Sky Blitz (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17416.0.html)
Cloak (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17613.0.html)
Catapult (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17670.0.html)
Fractal Nerf (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17261.0.html)
Steam Machine Buff (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17767.0.html)
Massive Dragon Buff (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17761.0.html)
Grey Nymph Buff (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17674.0.html)
Luciferan/Light nymph Change (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17759.0.html)
Empathic Bond Change (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17760.0.html)
Chimera Buff (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17763.0.html)
Solar Shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.0.html)
Water Nymph Change (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17768.0.html)
Stone Skin Bugg (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17766.0.html)
v1.25
Dune Scorpion Discussion Page (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9467.0.html)
Deathstalker Discussion Page (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9468.0.html)
Voodoo Doll Discussion Page (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9640.0.html)
Forest Scorpion Discussion Page (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9441.0.html)
Nightmare Discussion Page (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10615.0.html)
Short Bow Discussion Page (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10628.0.html)
Chimera (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10898.0.html)
Chaos Power Buff
Nymphs Tear Buff
Titan Nerf (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10878.0.html)
Shard of Gratitude Nerf (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11039.0.html)
Pufferfish buff (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10447.0.html)
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kalkiran

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131142#msg131142
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 05:42:43 PM »
You posted links to the discussion pages

Offline jmdt

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131221#msg131221
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 07:04:03 PM »
Will use forest scorpion the most probably in my myriad of life decks, I can also see lots of use for long bow.  I voted VooDoo doll as card I will use the least as it has no attack potential on its own, however as long as deathstalker is 0 attack I porbably won't use it either.  Dune is intriguing just due to ts synergy with pharaoh decks, but I probably won't use it either.

Offline Glitch

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131228#msg131228
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 07:06:39 PM »
How the hell is forest scorpion NOT underpowered?

People claim that deadly venom would be balanced if it didn't need the two card combo, and it started with one attack.  Doesn't that make forest scorpion HALF AS EFFECTIVE AS A BALANCED CARD?!

I mean really.

Malduk

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131245#msg131245
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2010, 07:25:00 PM »
Will use forest scorpion the most probably in my myriad of life decks, I can also see lots of use for long bow.  I voted VooDoo doll as card I will use the least as it has no attack potential on its own, however as long as deathstalker is 0 attack I porbably won't use it either.  Dune is intriguing just due to ts synergy with pharaoh decks, but I probably won't use it either.
Pretty much the same way I feel, but I'm actually loving Dune so far.

How the hell is forest scorpion NOT underpowered?

People claim that deadly venom would be balanced if it didn't need the two card combo, and it started with one attack.  Doesn't that make forest scorpion HALF AS EFFECTIVE AS A BALANCED CARD?!

I mean really.
I personally dont consider forest scorpio UP at all. It works really well combined with cheap physical damage :life has. Now, as much as I agree that cards should be balanced across elements, that isnt the case. If life has a creature with 5:2 damage:cost ratio, I dont see anything wrong with it having weaker poison damage dealer (that is IF Deathstalker recieves a buff; as it is, I'd rather have 1 poison for 1 card, than 2 poison for 2 cards that have to be played together).

guolin

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131250#msg131250
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 07:33:48 PM »
How the hell is forest scorpion NOT underpowered?

People claim that deadly venom would be balanced if it didn't need the two card combo, and it started with one attack.  Doesn't that make forest scorpion HALF AS EFFECTIVE AS A BALANCED CARD?!

I mean really.
It doesn't need to be combo'd...

Which means A) You can use it all by itself in a deck without requiring another card, like Momentum, and B) Can be used with fractal effectively. (Fractal Deathstalker needs 6 momentums, 6 Blessing, 6 Chaos Powers, etc.)

Offline Glitch

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131263#msg131263
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 07:45:40 PM »
Incorrect!  Let's do a direct comparison.

Frog:  2 quanta, 5 DPT.
Scorpion: 3 quanta, 2 DPT + 1 PPT.

A direct comparison.

Turn 1:  Play two pillars.  Frogs get out, Scorpions don't.  Frog: 5 - Scorpion: 0
Turn 2:  Scorpion gets played.  Frog: 10 - Scorpion: 2, 1 poison
Turn 3:  Frog: 15 - Scorpion: 5, 2 poison
Turn 4:  Frog: 20 - Scorpion: 9, 3 poison
Turn 5:  Frog: 25 - Scorpion: 14, 4 poison
Turn 6:  Frog: 30 - Scorpion: 20, 5 poison
Turn 7:  Frog: 35 - Scorpion: 27, 6 poison
Turn 8:  Frog: 40 - Scorpion: 35, 7 poison
Turn 9:  Frog: 45 - Scorpion: 44, 8 poison
Turn 10:  Frog: 50 - Scorpion: 54, 9 poison.

Even if you get them both out at the same time, frogs are still only equal to scorpions damage wise after 7 turns, whereas an effective rush deck only takes 6-5.  The extra quanta makes rushing frogs way easier, and almost any shield will stop scorpions in their tracks.  Scorpion is underpowered compared to every life creature.  Cockatrice, for the same cost, are impervious to most control and are a better pick.

And lets take a look at the other scorpions.

Turn 1: Scorpion: 2, 1 poison - Death Stalker: needs a buff.
Turn 2: Scorpion: 5, 2 poison - Death Stalker: 2, 2 poison (eclipse)
Turn 3: Scorpion: 9, 3 poison - Death Stalker: 6, 4 poison
Turn 3: Scorpion: 14, 4 poison - Death Stalker: 12, 6 poison
Turn 4: Scorpion: 20, 5 poison - Death Stalker: 20, 8 poison
Turn 5: Scorpion: 27, 6 poison - Death Stalker: 30, 10 poison
Turn 6: Scorpion: 35, 7 poison - Death Stalker: 42, 12 poison
Turn 7: Scorpion: 44, 8 poison - Death Stalker: 56, 14 poison
Turn 8: Scorpion: 54, 9 poison - Death Stalker: 72, 16 poison

And after a single eclipse, additional Death Stalkers are easy to play.  Even without Scorpion's card advantage, Death stalker is better than it within 6 turns.  If it gets a 1 damage buff, it's better by turn three.  Scorpion deserves a buff.

Turn 1: Scorpion: 2, 1 poison - Death Stalker: 1 - 2 poison
Turn 2: Scorpion: 5, 2 poison - Death Stalker: 4 - 4 poison
Turn 3: Scorpion: 9, 3 poison - Death Stalker: 9 - 6 poison

Malduk

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131270#msg131270
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 07:55:59 PM »
I'm not following the point of directly comparing Frogs to Scorpions... It is pretty obvious Scorpions are slower. If your reply was directed to me, I was trying to say that poison damage from Scorpions compliment physical damage from creatures, as it sticks on your opponent if he uses CC to get rid of your physical damage dealers. Combining those two make :life decks harder to counter.

I also dont get the point in such direct comparison of two scorpions. Use adrenaline on your scorpion, and you'll have 2 poison counters with 2 cards from the same element. Or simply use 2 scorpions.
Your comparison is comparing 2 cards (deathstalker + buff) from 2 different elements, against 1 life scorpion.
Even direct comparison of 2 vs 2 cards would be unfair as one is mono, other is duo that needs to be played at the same time to do anything. Which implies both quanta problems AND draw problems.

Also, (IMHO), :death deserves better poison creature than :life . At the moment, :life scorpio is better than :death scorpio.

Offline Glitch

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131274#msg131274
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 07:58:56 PM »
That's fine.  But if people are saying that Death Stalker deserves a buff, then why the heck doesn't Scorpion, which is the exact same thing except half as effective?

Or are you saying life deserves half-as-effective cards.  If that's the case, I'm afraid we'll have to take this outside.

Offline jmdt

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131275#msg131275
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 07:59:23 PM »
Incorrect!  Let's do a direct comparison.

Frog:  2 quanta, 5 DPT.
Scorpion: 3 quanta, 2 DPT + 1 PPT.

A direct comparison.

Turn 1:  Play two pillars.  Frogs get out, Scorpions don't.  Frog: 5 - Scorpion: 0
Turn 2:  Scorpion gets played.  Frog: 10 - Scorpion: 2, 1 poison
Turn 3:  Frog: 15 - Scorpion: 5, 2 poison
Turn 4:  Frog: 20 - Scorpion: 9, 3 poison
Turn 5:  Frog: 25 - Scorpion: 14, 4 poison
Turn 6:  Frog: 30 - Scorpion: 20, 5 poison
Turn 7:  Frog: 35 - Scorpion: 27, 6 poison
Turn 8:  Frog: 40 - Scorpion: 35, 7 poison
Turn 9:  Frog: 45 - Scorpion: 44, 8 poison
Turn 10:  Frog: 50 - Scorpion: 54, 9 poison.

Even if you get them both out at the same time, frogs are still only equal to scorpions damage wise after 7 turns, whereas an effective rush deck only takes 6-5.  The extra quanta makes rushing frogs way easier, and almost any shield will stop scorpions in their tracks.  Scorpion is underpowered compared to every life creature.  Cockatrice, for the same cost, are impervious to most control and are a better pick.

And lets take a look at the other scorpions.

Turn 1: Scorpion: 2, 1 poison - Death Stalker: needs a buff.
Turn 2: Scorpion: 5, 2 poison - Death Stalker: 2, 2 poison (eclipse)
Turn 3: Scorpion: 9, 3 poison - Death Stalker: 6, 4 poison
Turn 3: Scorpion: 14, 4 poison - Death Stalker: 12, 6 poison
Turn 4: Scorpion: 20, 5 poison - Death Stalker: 20, 8 poison
Turn 5: Scorpion: 27, 6 poison - Death Stalker: 30, 10 poison
Turn 6: Scorpion: 35, 7 poison - Death Stalker: 42, 12 poison
Turn 7: Scorpion: 44, 8 poison - Death Stalker: 56, 14 poison
Turn 8: Scorpion: 54, 9 poison - Death Stalker: 72, 16 poison

And after a single eclipse, additional Death Stalkers are easy to play.  Even without Scorpion's card advantage, Death stalker is better than it within 6 turns.  If it gets a 1 damage buff, it's better by turn three.  Scorpion deserves a buff.

Turn 1: Scorpion: 2, 1 poison - Death Stalker: 1 - 2 poison
Turn 2: Scorpion: 5, 2 poison - Death Stalker: 4 - 4 poison
Turn 3: Scorpion: 9, 3 poison - Death Stalker: 9 - 6 poison
While all of this is true, poison cards are not speed cards and the scorpoin fits in a slightly different deck.  scorpion will not replace cockatrice and frog in speed decks and was not intended to.  This card would work best in a life stall were you extend the game with heal, SoD, carapace, etc..  Here if they get destoryed you still have some damage on the table to win with where if your frogs die your'e toast.  I've been using Jade dragons in suck a deck, but these critters would likely be more useful from several perspectives.

guolin

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Re: Polls on the In Development Cards http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9939.msg131278#msg131278
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 08:02:50 PM »
That's fine.  But if people are saying that Death Stalker deserves a buff, then why the heck doesn't Scorpion, which is the exact same thing except half as effective?
Why do you keep implying arguing they are half as effective? Death Stalker requires another card for it to be any use whatsoever (besides CC fodder?). Scorpion can start using its ability right when it is played, and they both cost 3 quanta. Also, Scorpion has cards in its element that synergize well with it (healing and shields for stall, maybe adrenaline). Death only has poison, which only adds to the poison counter (purify much?), and bone wall.

 

anything
blarg: