DESYNC - How to help Zanz fix it!

[EvaRia]

OKAY! I FOLLOWED UP ON THAT^
I THINK I FOUND OUT WHAT'S CAUSING SOME OF THE DESYNCS!

I tested this out by opening up multiple tabs in my browser, opening up elements 4 times, and getting 4 of my accounts to play each other, while doing nothing the entire time. And yes, you can do that.

More or less this is what happens.

Lets say that 2 players play each other.
Player 1 plays some amount of cards and ends their turn. According to player 1's screen, as soon as he clicked the Done button or hit the spacebar, and the attack animation ends, it is now player 2's turn. the timer shows up, and starts running down.
But then this happens- Player 1 and Player 2 are far from each other, so then the information goes through the server and to player 2, and let's say this takes about 15 seconds because of their bad connection. Then player 2 watches a computer recreate player 1's turn exactly, and let's say this takes 5 seconds. At this point the timer on player 1's screen has gone down 20 seconds, and on player 2's screen, it just showed up. I think the game attempts to compensate my matching up the timers (40 seconds). So now lets say player 2, for whatever reason, plays his turn and waits out the entire timer. The information takes another 15 seconds to get back to Player 1. HOWEVER, on player 1's screen, when the timer ran out, he gets the not responding, cpu takeover message when the timer ran out. This lasts 10 seconds. So then, Player 1 plays the CPU, except since player 1 still responds on time, THE CPU DOES NOT TAKE OVER ON PLAYER 2'S SCREEN. As a result, player 1 still sends information about his turns to player 2, but player 2's turn is replaced by a computer. This causes the desync. Now if Player 1 is playing much quicker now that he is against the CPU, more than one turn may show up in information as player 2's opponent while player 2 is taking his own turn. This causes strange things to happen, like negative quanta and playing cards you normally wouldn't be able to, simply because the CPU is processing information from multiple turns and playing it as one turn.

I'm pretty sure you can force these desyncs to happen with a lag switch.

[jmizzle7]

Very interesting information, EvaRia... We'll definitely check that out.

[EvaRia]

Forget the lag switch, I'm pretty sure you can force desyncs just by waiting out the timer for a few turns.

Here's a desync I got by testing my ideas.

My deck was 60 quantum pillars, nothing else.
I played them as I had them.
I waited all the timers I had to zero and just as I expected, a major desync happened.

The turn before the one I posted, all he had out on the field was like 4 gravity pillars.
Next turn this.
This supports my theory, will post more as I test them out.

[EvaRia]

Desync test #2, Opened up elements in 2 different windows, pvp dueled each other.
both decks were 60 quantum pillars.
both strats were playing all pillars, then letting the timer run out without clicking done.



window #1



window #2
note that the opponent has not drawn any cards but has pillars on the field, and full hands, in BOTH windows.



the desync message popped up on both screens when the timer length eventually dwindled to 0.
I no longer had enough time to click, and did not gain quanta. However, my opponent did, in both windows.
Note that timers on both windows also disappear.



Eventually, the game decided to give an instant win to one of the windows.



The other game simply froze, and nothing else happened. This screenshot was taken a few minutes after the last one.


Hope this can help Zanz solve some Desync issues^^.

[EvaRia]

OK, SORRY FOR MULTIPOSTING, but I have arrived at a simple way to fix most of these minor desyncs.

Just a few simple and small changes to the timer/timing out system should do wonders.

Let's draw another scenario-
It is Player 1's turn, Player 2 is waiting.

-Lock player 1's timer so that it always starts at 60, and don't make it shrink.
-Because of connection/animations, Player 2's timer indicating how much time player 1 has left will run out first. (This just happens, not much to do about it).
-When this timer runs out, instead of giving an "Opponent not responding, CPU will take over in __ seconds" message, just make a message show up that says "Waiting for your Opponent", maybe with an hourglass next to it.
-on Player 1's side, when his timer runs out, run a message that says, in the caps, "END YOUR TURN IN __ SECONDS OR YOU WILL LOSE THE MATCH."
-The first time this happens, make it 9 seconds. The second time, 6 seconds. The third time, 3 seconds. and the fourth time is an instant kick. (Remember, this is only on Player 1's side, Player 2 will just have the waiting for your opponent message.)
-If this times out, Player 1 will get sent to the you have lost screen. (Who needs a whole minute to take a turn anyways?)
-AFTER Player 1 has been kicked, Player 2 will get the message "Your opponent has LEFT the game, The CPU will take over in __ seconds."

THIS SHOULD SOLVE MOST OF THE MINOR DESYNC PROBLEMS.

[DrunkDestroyer]

Just asking for a definnition of desync.
And is it a desync if it seems as if all that has happened is the computer has taken over due to Time Out?

[EvaRia]

Just asking for a definnition of desync.
And is it a desync if it seems as if all that has happened is the computer has taken over due to Time Out?

It's a desync if the computer takes over on one screen, but the other screen is still playing that player.
Player 1 plays Player 2 plays the Computer.
Since Player 2 is against the computer, he can play much faster than Player 1.
So there's generally one or two turns where multiple turns are sent over as information to Player 1, causing the field to change a lot in the next few of his turns.
This is the more common kind of desync anyways.

As I sort of said above, but less organized, why this happens is because the game's time out system and turn system is a bit buggy.
How the game registers turns is pretty much you do everything you need to do in your turn, and press "Done".
At that moment the computer packages all the information during your turn and in what order and sends it to your opponent's computer, where the computer replays it.
This goes back and forth.

The timeout system works like this:
When you press "Done", a yellow bar pops up on your screen to time your opponent's turn.
This ALWAYS lasts exactly 60 seconds.
When this timer runs out, the "Not Responding" message pops up and the CPU takes after 10 seconds.
This timer is ALWAYS FIXED, meaning that it will do the above regardless of your opponent.
So now, there's a little bit of time for the turn information to travel to your opponent all in one go.
So now your opponent is watching your turn replayed while your yellow timer is still going.
When it's his turn, he get's a green timer. This timer tries to prevent desyncs by being much much less than 60 seconds.
It normally averages for me by being about 30-40 seconds, but it can be as high as 50+ and as low as 0.
All that happens if this timer hits 0 is that your turn automatically ends.
If you wait too long on this timer, it shrinks the next turn. The timer adds a bit of time if you play something.
The information from his turn goes back to you.

Now the reason these minor desyncs happen is when you press done, you get this 60 second yellow timer right?
Adding in the 10 seconds after that:
If the information going to your opponent, being replayed completely, your opponent's turn, your opponent's attack animation, and the information going back to you takes more than 70 seconds, you will play the computer.
However, your opponent still plays you, and he sees a desync.
This is relatively common, and usually happens because of bad connection and/or the player's turn taking a long time from thinking or lots of clicks.

This is why I suggested a timer system to fix this above.

I believe some of the bigger ones are caused when the turn information passing back and forth gets corrupted, and it causes the game to go REALLY weird.

Should I post this in the main section?

[DrunkDestroyer]

Just asking for a definnition of desync.
And is it a desync if it seems as if all that has happened is the computer has taken over due to Time Out?

It's a desync if the computer takes over on one screen, but the other screen is still playing that player.
Player 1 plays Player 2 plays the Computer.
...
This is why I suggested a timer system to fix this above.

Thanks for your help. I also see youve done a lot of work on researching desyncs. Even though I know nothing on this area, I can see you deserve the + Karma I'm giving you.

[Scaredgirl]

Should I post this in the main section?

Yes, definitely. Awesome data and explanation that should probably be stickied somewhere. Good job.

[jmizzle7]

Should I post this in the main section?

Yes. I had a very long conversation with Rastafla last night about desyncs and I referred him to your posts specifically in this thread. The more visible this information is, the better, and hopefully it will soon be fixed.

[EvaRia]

Alright, I'll put up a thread in the main section then.

[TruePurple]

The game often desyncs before reporting any desync. Sometimes many turns before the game actually knows its out of sync. But to know the game is out of sync in a game where your not communicating with your opponent in a chat outside of the game is difficult.

It would be easier if match chat was improved, and made so you can continue to talk to your opponent, even after the game thinks one has timed out.

Is it really important to have a screen shot of actual desync time or close to it? Or is the point where the game knows its out of sync important too?

I too think the timer is involved with desyncs. I think i would experience alot less desyncs if there was a sizable buffer time at the start of the game for the game to save and do its coin toss animations, handshake the connection, etc. And a smaller buffer between player turns.