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Offline Boingo

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64212#msg64212
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2010, 03:16:05 AM »
A card specifically designed against both mono decks and :darkness cards.  How odd.

Why use any other pillar type if you can use :light pillars/mark and this?  This combo will always generate the quanta needed for the cards in hand.  Sure, you mention it won't power the quanta needed for ability cards, but clever combinations can certainly get around this.
Bring back Holy Cow!

Kael Hate

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64239#msg64239
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 05:02:07 AM »
A card specifically designed against both mono decks and :darkness cards.  How odd.

Why use any other pillar type if you can use :light pillars/mark and this?  This combo will always generate the quanta needed for the cards in hand.  Sure, you mention it won't power the quanta needed for ability cards, but clever combinations can certainly get around this.
Because if you don't draw a Spectral Reflector or Spectral Prism you're dead in the water.

Offline Kuroaitou

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64246#msg64246
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 05:36:24 AM »
A card specifically designed against both mono decks and :darkness cards.  How odd.

Why use any other pillar type if you can use :light pillars/mark and this?  This combo will always generate the quanta needed for the cards in hand.  Sure, you mention it won't power the quanta needed for ability cards, but clever combinations can certainly get around this.
Because if you don't draw a Spectral Reflector or Spectral Prism you're dead in the water.
Which is the true magic of this. You can't just spam light pillars and these and get all the quanta you need. Since it's based off how many cards of an element you have in hand, even playing one may not guarantee that card being out soon.

...I guess the only problem that I can now see with this card is that there's no "off-switch", in case you want to conserve some of your light quanta for something vital (Hope, Miracle, or even a Light Dragon), rather than remove some of it for a card you don't need to play at all.

Offline Boingo

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64408#msg64408
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 04:06:25 PM »
Which is the true magic of this. You can't just spam light pillars and these and get all the quanta you need. Since it's based off how many cards of an element you have in hand, even playing one may not guarantee that card being out soon.

...I guess the only problem that I can now see with this card is that there's no "off-switch", in case you want to conserve some of your light quanta for something vital (Hope, Miracle, or even a Light Dragon), rather than remove some of it for a card you don't need to play at all.
The "off switch" will be playing all the non :light cards in your hand or enough of them to let some of the :light accumulate.
Bring back Holy Cow!

Scaredgirl

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64417#msg64417
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 04:38:02 PM »
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
The problem is that Elements is not a game designed just for you. There are thousands of other people too, and these people (the general public) don't like complex cards. Keeping it simple is very important in game design. When you look at the most popular games in gaming history, all of them have a very simple core.

Fractal is a perfect example of a good card. It's really easy to understand, but opens up dozens of different possibilities. It's simple, yet complicated. That's what we need, not cards with complex descriptions.

There has been some talk about "unwritten rules". This card idea, if implemented in its current form, would be hands down the most complex card to understand in Elements. I'm betting that Zanz has an "unwritten rule" against complex cards like this one.

Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64420#msg64420
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 04:53:36 PM »
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
The problem is that Elements is not a game designed just for you. There are thousands of other people too, and these people (the general public) don't like complex cards. Keeping it simple is very important in game design. When you look at the most popular games in gaming history, all of them have a very simple core.

Fractal is a perfect example of a good card. It's really easy to understand, but opens up dozens of different possibilities. It's simple, yet complicated. That's what we need, not cards with complex descriptions.

There has been some talk about "unwritten rules". This card idea, if implemented in its current form, would be hands down the most complex card to understand in Elements. I'm betting that Zanz has an "unwritten rule" against complex cards like this one.
then i'm not made for this game

Kael Hate

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64428#msg64428
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 05:05:09 PM »
Lol why are these always so complex? :) My brain hurts after reading that description.

I like cards like Nova that are simple.
lol, my thoughts cycle between, Tactical Action, Calculations and Revelations. This is as simple to me as nova.
The problem is that Elements is not a game designed just for you. There are thousands of other people too, and these people (the general public) don't like complex cards. Keeping it simple is very important in game design. When you look at the most popular games in gaming history, all of them have a very simple core.

Fractal is a perfect example of a good card. It's really easy to understand, but opens up dozens of different possibilities. It's simple, yet complicated. That's what we need, not cards with complex descriptions.

There has been some talk about "unwritten rules". This card idea, if implemented in its current form, would be hands down the most complex card to understand in Elements. I'm betting that Zanz has an "unwritten rule" against complex cards like this one.
Its my idea tho isn't it? If someone is allowed to have a card that would be meaningless to me, pass to the Crucible and maybe into the upper ranks, why can't an idea like mine go too? This is quite mathematically simple and once seen in action will likely provoke the response "Ah it makes quanta that matches the cards in my hand". Various posters have agreed here so I have some support.

My only response to complexity in the game and unwritten rules is: Explain Mutation in full.

Arondight

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64440#msg64440
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 05:34:02 PM »
I actually like this a lot. If you're using a rainbow deck without Miracles and such, this thing would be amazing.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64443#msg64443
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 05:35:58 PM »
Its my idea tho isn't it? If someone is allowed to have a card that would be meaningless to me, pass to the Crucible and maybe into the upper ranks, why can't an idea like mine go too? This is quite mathematically simple and once seen in action will likely provoke the response "Ah it makes quanta that matches the cards in my hand". Various posters have agreed here so I have some support.
The idea of this section is to give feedback on the cards and that's exactly what I'm doing. Whose idea this is makes no difference.


My only response to complexity in the game and unwritten rules is: Explain Mutation in full.
We are talking about two totally different things here. Cards like Mutation and Adrenaline require trial and error to see what exactly happens, but the cards themselves are very easy to understand. The description is easy to understand. It might be easy for you but the fact that you designed this card might have an effect.

If nothing more, you should at least try rewording of the description.


Many of these QUANTUM MECHANICS series cards are very difficult to understand, and many members have pointed it out (I've even received a PM about it). I'm not going to start arguing about it, but I can guarantee that I won't be voting any complex ideas to be moved to Forge because I think that would be a huge game design mistake. Then again my vote is no more important than someone else's so it's not the end of the world.


EDIT:
One interesting solution would be to make the cards so that unupped version is much less complicated. This way it would be easier for newbies to actually use the cards in deck building. Then when they get experience and are able to upgrade the card, it would become more complex giving veteran players more challenge.

Arondight

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64456#msg64456
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 05:57:55 PM »
I think a lot have good effects, just that the explanations aren't explained well, to be blunt about it.

It could of said: At the end of your turn, consume :light by the same amount of non-darkness cards in your hand. Generate one quanta of the same element of each non-darkness card in your hand.

Don't know if that's easier to understand, but I'm just trying to help.  :)

Kael Hate

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64493#msg64493
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2010, 06:43:45 PM »
Many of these QUANTUM MECHANICS series cards are very difficult to understand, and many members have pointed it out (I've even received a PM about it). I'm not going to start arguing about it, but I can guarantee that I won't be voting any complex ideas to be moved to Forge because I think that would be a huge game design mistake. Then again my vote is no more important than someone else's so it's not the end of the world.
EDIT:
One interesting solution would be to make the cards so that unupped version is much less complicated. This way it would be easier for newbies to actually use the cards in deck building. Then when they get experience and are able to upgrade the card, it would become more complex giving veteran players more challenge.
There is a problem tho, because we only broadcast the Image of the card for voting, the community does not get to see the mechanics that make the card work. If I go with simple text the voter does not know the details on the back end, if I put the detail in the text box, I get complaints of complex text. What am I to do when the environment treats me as such. To take experience from the veteran game Magic, their sets are a conglomerate of complex and simple cards. The Complex cards require an indepth knowledge of the game or investigation or analysation of the card text and new terms.

In the most part my Quantum Mechanics cards are for the experienced community. Nearly none of the cards will fit into an introduction deck as they are deck building pieces for constructed deck types. They are cards with interaction tasks, not just stock.

Offline RavingRabbid

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Re: Spectral Reflector | Spectral Prism http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5557.msg64516#msg64516
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 07:37:11 PM »
Love this. Awesome. Even the art is <3.
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