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Offline killsdazombies

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg57907#msg57907
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2010, 02:06:05 AM »
IDK this dosnt seem worth it :c sure your like a FG now but i can easly win with out 3 of my mark and the fact this holds a spot in your deck... this is up.

Offline Boingo

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg57927#msg57927
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2010, 02:32:52 AM »
I don't think it's fair to charge this card with the OP offense.  It's just the next step in a progression of cards as I see it. 

Right now, you upgrade your pillars to towers to get the bonus quantum in order to play creatures/spells/permanents a turn or 2 earlier.  We have cards like precognition, sundials and hourglasses all allowing you to draw and play cards more quickly.  Rustlers multiply quanta. With fractal, cards like devourer/pest not only deny but can supply massive amounts of quanta.

Essentially, a shard like this would allow you to pack fewer pillars and more of everything else but at the risk of not drawing it till late in the game.  I think a fair comparison is to the hourglass but instead of emptying your hand full of pillars and using "hasten" to get to your creatures, you would already have the quanta you need to play the creatures in your hand.  If anything, this card would broaden the possibilities of a :time deck offers without necessitating you to use time itself. 

So I think this shard is not truly OP but more of a nerf on existing cards.  For example, it would partially nerf the abilities of :time over other decks as the advantage of multiple draws would lessen slightly.  Also, fractal decks which spam cheap creatures would also take a hit since you could play bigger hitters earlier with the help of SoP.

Just my 2 cents...
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Kael Hate

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg65944#msg65944
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2010, 05:13:17 PM »
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Offline Avenger

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66252#msg66252
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2010, 07:45:19 AM »
Why is this so insanely cheap? Calculate the average length of games, how much more quanta is generated for paying a single one. This is a 3 in one card. It shouldn't be this cheap. But since it is mostly quanta, why not pay with max hp for it.
Like: playing this card reduces your max hp by 5 or 10%.

Those who say: "but you cannot play this on turn 1". No, it isn't true. With auto-mulligan, you are likely to have an upgraded pillar on turn 1.
6 of these and 6 pillars will be more than enough in a 60 card deck.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66260#msg66260
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2010, 09:14:21 AM »
Wow.. Ridiculously OP. Every single mono- or duo-deck should have 6 of these.

This about it like this:

When you play itAt the end of the turn
TOTAL after one turn
Tower
+1
+1
2 (with +1 each turn)
Shard of Power
-1
+3
2 (with +3 each turn)
So if you can pay that 1 quanta, this card is as fast as a Tower the first turn you play it. All the turns after that, it's three times faster than a tower.


Nerfing process should start by this generating only 2 quanta per turn, although I'm not sure if even that is enough.

Kael Hate

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66262#msg66262
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2010, 09:31:57 AM »
6 of these and 6 pillars will be more than enough in a 60 card deck.
In a 30-40 card Mono deck yes. In a 60 card deck you need about 12 towers + the SoP to get clean draws.

Current deck design forces about 1:3 ratio for pillars in cards, but without effective draw mechanics it comes down to who got lucky and drew a playable card first. This card thins down your pillar requirements for your primary element.

It does not help with your out of element quanta which most often players use their mark for. It does not help rush on the first or second turn.

Every single mono- or duo-deck should have 6 of these.
In the most part Yes. See above.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66263#msg66263
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2010, 09:49:39 AM »
In the most part Yes. See above.
Did you look at that table I made there?

Cards like this are the wrong way of designing CCG's. All cards should be equal in "power", only different. This card does what Towers do but almost 3 times faster. It's not only different, it's clearly a much better card.

Kael Hate

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66264#msg66264
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2010, 09:55:39 AM »
In the most part Yes. See above.
Did you look at that table I made there?

Cards like this are the wrong way of designing CCG's. All cards should be equal in "power", only different. This card does what Towers do but almost 3 times faster. It's not only different, it's clearly a much better card.
Does the Shard of Power allow you to play any card that is of an element different to your mark?

Scaredgirl

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66265#msg66265
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2010, 10:23:21 AM »
In the most part Yes. See above.
Did you look at that table I made there?

Cards like this are the wrong way of designing CCG's. All cards should be equal in "power", only different. This card does what Towers do but almost 3 times faster. It's not only different, it's clearly a much better card.
Does the Shard of Power allow you to play any card that is of an element different to your mark?
No. And it also doesn't kill any creatures, heal you, or turn into a pumpkin at midnight.

I'm not discussing what the card doesn't do, I'm discussing what it does do. And what it does is produce quanta, lots of it.

Purposely designing overpowered cards is a bad move.

Kael Hate

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66280#msg66280
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2010, 11:48:17 AM »
In the most part Yes. See above.
Did you look at that table I made there?

Cards like this are the wrong way of designing CCG's. All cards should be equal in "power", only different. This card does what Towers do but almost 3 times faster. It's not only different, it's clearly a much better card.
Does the Shard of Power allow you to play any card that is of an element different to your mark?
No. And it also doesn't kill any creatures, heal you, or turn into a pumpkin at midnight.

I'm not discussing what the card doesn't do, I'm discussing what it does do. And what it does is produce quanta, lots of it.

Purposely designing overpowered cards is a bad move.
You were comparing Towers and SoP and saying that Sop is just an Overpowered Tower. It Isn't tho, Its a card that requires an investment in the short term to gain a long term quanta advantage. The disadvantages you need to overcome while using it are its deployment cost rather than being free, and that it cannot fill the role of out of element quanta. If you do decide to use this card that can give you a greater boost you won't be able to use your mark to fuel your secondary effects. It is not overpowered and It will also never replace towers in its entirety so I question your logic.

mokasu

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66281#msg66281
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2010, 11:52:28 AM »
umm...ppl only seems to be talking about the card itself,what about its name? i mean, "Shard of Power" dont realy fit with its effect...

Scaredgirl

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Re: Shard | Shard of Power http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5641.msg66290#msg66290
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2010, 12:18:04 PM »
In the most part Yes. See above.
Did you look at that table I made there?

Cards like this are the wrong way of designing CCG's. All cards should be equal in "power", only different. This card does what Towers do but almost 3 times faster. It's not only different, it's clearly a much better card.
Does the Shard of Power allow you to play any card that is of an element different to your mark?
No. And it also doesn't kill any creatures, heal you, or turn into a pumpkin at midnight.

I'm not discussing what the card doesn't do, I'm discussing what it does do. And what it does is produce quanta, lots of it.

Purposely designing overpowered cards is a bad move.
You were comparing Towers and SoP and saying that Sop is just an Overpowered Tower. It Isn't tho, Its a card that requires an investment in the short term to gain a long term quanta advantage. The disadvantages you need to overcome while using it are its deployment cost rather than being free, and that it cannot fill the role of out of element quanta. If you do decide to use this card that can give you a greater boost you won't be able to use your mark to fuel your secondary effects. It is not overpowered and It will also never replace towers in its entirety so I question your logic.
Yeah, but that's the thing.. there is no "short term investment". If you look at the table I drew, you can see that you get +2 quanta on the first turn, which is the same amount of quanta you would get from a Tower.

As long as you have one Tower in your opening hand, you can play this card on your first turn gaining that +2 and +3 every turn after that. With auto-mulligan this is very easy to achieve.

My main point is this: compared to a regular mono-Tower, this card is extremely powerful. There should be no question in your mind whether to take 6 of these cards or not. You should always take 6 of them because you will get quanta much faster that way. That means all deck design would begin by having 6 of these, and then trying to come up with the other 24 cards.

To me that's bad game design.


umm...ppl only seems to be talking about the card itself,what about its name? i mean, "Shard of Power" dont realy fit with its effect...
I don't see any problems with the name. In fact a card as overpowered as this one, "Shard of Power" fits very nicely. :)

 

anything
blarg: