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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263746#msg263746
« on: February 04, 2011, 12:12:34 am »
NAME:
Manticore
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
3 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
4|2
TEXT:
Gains ":gravity :gravity: Devour" if your mark is Gravity.
Gains ":death: Poison" if your mark is Death.
NAME:
Elite Manticore
ELEMENT:
Life
COST:
5 :life
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
5|3
TEXT:
Gains ":gravity :gravity: Devour" if your mark is Gravity.
Gains ":death: Deadly Poison" if your mark is Death.
ART:
Werdbooty
Original Image
Image License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:public_domain)
IDEA:
Werdbooty (w/ a wink to the CCC Team & much thanks)
NOTES:
Passive Abilities: Airborne
"Deadly Poison" deals 2 poison counters instead of the normal 1.
Some quick background information: the Manticore was a mythological creature of various permutations, most often accounted as having the body of a lion, the head of a human, the wings of a dragon and the tail of a scorpion. Also supposedly shot poisoned spines at its prey and devoured it whole. Hence the Devour/Poison/Airborne aspects.
This is possibly a bit OP but I think it could also stand as is. Might switch the card's element from Life, if need be. The idea was to create a card powerful enough to stand as a vanilla creature yet still have some usefulness, depending on the scenario. It also had to synergize well with any abilities. Manticore is the result.
SERIES:
Mythos
USEFUL LINKS:
"Manticore" Wiki Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manticore)
Communal Card Creation Team (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17219.msg234145#msg234145)
v1.0
(http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd136941/Manticore) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd136942/Greater_Manticore)
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Offline Rutarete

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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263749#msg263749
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 12:15:29 am »
This is a GREAT IDEA! I see potential for a series with a multiple-mark mechanic.
On a side note, if that describes a manticore, then what's a griffin? i think i've  mixed them up
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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263750#msg263750
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 12:17:40 am »
Wow, this card is really intruiging. I haven't seen a card like this before where your mark affects the creature's ability, but I think it's a really good idea!

The card itself is good, I think, and it does fit with the actual creature. Without playtesting, I'd initially suggesting raising both the upped and unupped costs by 1 :life, but again, I haven't playtested this.

Know what might happen if a player has a :gravity mark but owns a :death mark card and plays it? :P

And finally: Is this art a collage job or did you actually make the background and creature art? If the latter is true, I applaud you for your skills. If the former is true, nice collaging skills.

That's all. A very interesting and well-designed card.

SeddyRocky

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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263754#msg263754
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 12:19:20 am »
Balance wise, 1 additional cost for 5 attack compared to Oty? (I get that it's a duo, but the mark guarantees use every turn). Might want to tweak that.

Concept-wise, it sounds a little complicated, but I'm for it.

Wonder

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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263755#msg263755
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 12:19:57 am »
Wow d^^b I love the concept of a card's ability changing depending on the mark.
Great idea!!

Offline doublecross

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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263760#msg263760
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 12:26:22 am »
This is a very creative idea. I really like making marks count for more than just quanta generation.
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263763#msg263763
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 12:30:50 am »
I thought about upping the cost, for all of the reasons previously stated (don't wanna overshadow Otyugh and it seems a little too cheapo for a 5|5). But let me go through my math and you guys can poke the holes where you see fit :D

Unupped:
+3 :life for attack
+2 :life for either ability, assuming your mark matches
-1  :life for Life's innate bonus.

Upped:
+5  :life for attack
+2  :life for either ability, again assuming your mark matches
-1  :life for Life's innate bonus
-1  :life for Upgrade

Note: It also needs to remain cheap enough to stand as a viable vanilla creature for mono-Life.

Hence why I thought the creature's element may need to change. I did think a boost to cost might be required at first but thought I'd toss it out as is and see what I can see. As for the art, follow the link in the Art section of the table and you can see the original image is a photo of a Chimera statue (another creature that might follow this treatment). Most of my pictures are photos that I've cropped, warped or run thru various filters. This was a hard one. If anyone wants to draw me a snarly little Manticore, complete with scorpion tail, it'd be most appreciated.

Know what might happen if a player has a :gravity mark but owns a :death mark card and plays it? :P

Your mark, not your mark card ;)  ...if your mark changes mid-game, so does the Manticore (assume it happens at end of turn).

Also, the Griffin is a bird/lion thing. Close but not quite.
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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263789#msg263789
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 01:10:59 am »
Gotta say, I'm really diggin' the multimark mechanic. I hope I see this a little more often --where it applies--

I also wanted to ask "Poison" refers to the skill that Forest Scorpion, Arsenic and Pufferfish have right?

Another tiny detail that sort of bothers me. Can we give it 2 health instead? It seems too much like an Otyugh and they cost 4 quanta as well, just that this one has 3 more attack. In my opinion the restrictive deck building point is not equal to 3 attack, knowing that it also works wonders with Adrenaline.

As for the upgraded, I'd also say it needs a nerf. Basing it on the Otyugh as well.

Having said my initial feelings I do have to state that I'm not the best at balancing. But I'm sure he'll come soon and have fun with this one.
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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263793#msg263793
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 01:17:09 am »
I also wanted to ask "Poison" refers to the skill that Forest Scorpion, Arsenic and Pufferfish have right?
'Poison' is the ability of Chrysaora. The ability of those creatures is called 'Venom'
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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263802#msg263802
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 01:29:48 am »
Dur. That makes sense. Why would Venom cost 1 :death to use? u_u

You can tell I don't use Venom much.
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263808#msg263808
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 01:33:15 am »
Gotta say, I'm really diggin' the multimark mechanic. I hope I see this a little more often --where it applies--

I also wanted to ask "Poison" refers to the skill that Forest Scorpion, Arsenic and Pufferfish have right?

Another tiny detail that sort of bothers me. Can we give it 2 health instead? It seems too much like an Otyugh and they cost 4 quanta as well, just that this one has 3 more attack. In my opinion the restrictive deck building point is not equal to 3 attack, knowing that it also works wonders with Adrenaline.

As for the upgraded, I'd also say it needs a nerf. Basing it on the Otyugh as well.

Having said my initial feelings I do have to state that I'm not the best at balancing. But I'm sure he'll come soon and have fun with this one.
ddevans is correct...same as Chryasora. Poisons your opponent when activated. I also think the best bet with Manticore in terms of balancing may be just to up the cost by 1 apiece. We shall see, if I think you're referring to the same 'he' I think you are.

As suggested, I have some ideas for other creatures similar to this - we'll call it the Mythos series for now - but I don't want to water down the "craziness" that is Manticore until people have gotten used to it. I'm quite proud of this one.
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Re: Manticore | Elite Manticore http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20744.msg263818#msg263818
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 01:51:36 am »
Nice.
However Devour (with 3hp to start) is worth +4 quanta and Devour (with 5hp to start) is worth +6 quanta
Poison is worth only +1 quanta
IIRC: Devour with 2hp to start is worth +2

So
Unupped
Stats: 4|2
Ability: Either  :gravity :gravity:Devour or  :death:Poison
Would be at a casting cost of 4(attack) +0(0<hp<6) +0(duo skill) -1 (life bonus) = 3 :life

Elite Manticore needs a more powerful Death skill to balance out the +4 cost of  :gravity :gravity:Devour.
Alternatively it could go with 3hp upgraded and only need to find a powerful Death skill to match the +2 cost of  :gravity :gravity: Devour.
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