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Elements the Game => Level 2 - Forge => Card Ideas and Art => Forge Archive => Topic started by: Essence on May 28, 2010, 03:29:27 pm

Title: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on May 28, 2010, 03:29:27 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd70154/Kraken.png)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd70155/Leviathan.png)
NAME:
Kraken
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
5 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
8|8
ABILITY:
Dies instantly unless underwater.  0: Destroy target Water creature with less HP.
NAME:
Leviathan
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
8 :water
TYPE:
Creature
ATK|HP:
13|13
ABILITY:
Dies instantly unless underwater.  0: Destroy target Water creature with less HP.
ART:
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g242/tygre138/monsters/kraken.jpg
IDEA:
Essence
NOTES:
"Underwater" referrs to the effect of Flooding|Inundation.
SERIES:
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: jmizzle7 on May 28, 2010, 03:48:03 pm
Haha, you would make a creature that abuses fractal, wouldn't you? ;)
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on May 29, 2010, 01:13:51 am
Huh?
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: alf15 on May 29, 2010, 01:18:57 am
its more of a creature that requires you to fill up your field first, or at least the first line (7 creatures) which is uncommon for a water deck to have. Plus fractal would require so much quanta to play them all out that it would be useless or next to, though filling your field with sparks would be funny just to play a kracken in your flooded field areas. And the card and info show different stats for leviathan.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: icybraker on May 29, 2010, 01:47:57 am
Looks good to me. The art is... lackluster, but w/e :P

I like it, actually. It requires a specialized setup, which more than pays for its expensive stats. I'd love to see a deck based around it.

Quote
And the card and info show different stats for leviathan.
This. Is the upped version 13/13 or 15/15?
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on May 29, 2010, 02:09:05 am
It's 13|13. 

The real kicker behind Leviathan is that it's not only finicky about getting enough creatures to set up (gotta fill up that first row), but it's also a creature that can die to permanent control (kill the Inundation).  It's a huge gamble both in terms of comboing it into existence, but also in terms of keeping it alive.

That said, the cost-benefit is HUGE, and you get to Flood your opponent along the way. 

I'm about as fond of this idea for :water as I was for Alpha Wolf and :life .  I think it's thematically appropriate, cleverly balanced, and edgy without being OP.  But enough modesty on my part.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: icybraker on May 29, 2010, 02:16:04 am
Quote
it's thematically appropriate, cleverly balanced, and edgy without being OP.
SOMEONE'S modest ;)

Agreed with thematically appropriate and it is edgy without being OP. Is it balanced? I'm not sure. Only playtesting can tell. My initial reaction was actually "Too weak!" especially the unupped version.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: dragonhuman on May 29, 2010, 03:42:48 am
just remeber in a pinch these would still damage the opponent before they die of not being flooded
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: tyranim on May 29, 2010, 04:01:14 am
you can combo this with aflatoxin, those little cancers die when in the flood, so they only take up the middle row, fractal these babies (if you can make a trio deck like that) and you have a massive powerhouse field... wait, i just realized something. flood+afla= faster field control... hmm.....
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Terroking on May 29, 2010, 04:15:12 am
you can combo this with aflatoxin, those little cancers die when in the flood, so they only take up the middle row, fractal these babies (if you can make a trio deck like that) and you have a massive powerhouse field... wait, i just realized something. flood+afla= faster field control... hmm.....
Not really, since Mali Cells aren't killed by Flooding, you'd have to get all your Krakens on the board before they fillit up, and after that any you draw are just useless.

Quote
it's thematically appropriate, cleverly balanced, and edgy without being OP.
SOMEONE'S modest ;)

Agreed with thematically appropriate and it is edgy without being OP. Is it balanced? I'm not sure. Only playtesting can tell. My initial reaction was actually "Too weak!" especially the unupped version.
This says it all, really. I think it's a really good idea, and I'd love to see it in the game.

I am curious, however, what the effects would be with quint. We all know that a QUinted creature ignores Flooding, so should it be possible to put out a 13/13 immortal beatstick for 2 cards and 11 quanta or should it die when it's immortalized? The latter doesn't make much sense, and the former seems overpowered...

Anyways, great card.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: tyranim on May 29, 2010, 04:21:38 am
wait, cancer cells dont die in flooding? arent they not water creatures though?!...
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Terroking on May 29, 2010, 04:27:59 am
wait, cancer cells dont die in flooding? arent they not water creatures though?!...
Non-Water and Non-Other ;)
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: tyranim on May 29, 2010, 04:30:38 am
crap, oh well...
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Glitch on May 29, 2010, 04:54:37 am
Wait wait wait.  An 8|8?  For five?

Why even bother making it invulnerable?  It's an 8|8!
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: jmizzle7 on May 29, 2010, 05:12:39 am
What I meant, Essence, was that this is a prime target for Fractal, because you could do something like  Crawlers or RoLs for the middle row, then use flooding to set up a Fractal/Leviathan combo.

Also.... we could actually say, "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!" in PvP, and it would make sense. Win. :D
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: tyranim on May 29, 2010, 05:17:43 am
Quote
Also.... we could actually say, "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!!!" in PvP, and it would make sense. Win. :D
this made me lol
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: tyranim on May 29, 2010, 05:24:04 am
i just did the cost/attack ratio on both cards and this came up

unupped 5/8=.384ish

upped 8/13=.615ish

the ratio almost doubles when its upgraded. not as epic an upgrade as spider, but it is pretty good.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on May 29, 2010, 06:26:22 pm
Dunno what math you're using, unit, but on my calculator, 5/8= .625, actually slightly MORE than 8/13.

Quote
What I meant, Essence, was that this is a prime target for Fractal, because you could do something like  Crawlers or RoLs for the middle row, then use flooding to set up a Fractal/Leviathan combo.
Wow, that was a long walk to tie this to Fractal. ;p

Actually, though, I kind of like it.  Fractal+Chrysora+Flooding+Kraken, with Death mark just for fun?



Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: RavingRabbid on May 30, 2010, 06:10:41 pm
What if lobotomized-shadowd-Butterflied?
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Kuroaitou on May 30, 2010, 07:26:25 pm
This thing would be pure evil if you had one (just one) PA'ed Flooding/Innundation. A :water/ :earth deck with this card would be devastating, due to the huge damage potential and cheapness (not to mention quanta/creature denial).

Powerful, but without the permanent, it's useless - fairly balanced I suppose...
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Kael Hate on May 30, 2010, 07:49:04 pm
I like it.

Needs more tho for the risk.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on May 30, 2010, 09:07:42 pm
UPDATED!

Since the biggest comment was that it wasn't quite enough, I made it just a little more fragile but added a significant new active ability.

(BTW, the 'vulnerability' is a Passive ability, so it's not affected by Lobo/LS/Butterfly.)

Kraken|Leviathan now dies instantly unless underwater -- making it unusable as a "direct damage" spells -- but now provides hardcore complementary power to Flooding|Inundation, as it can kill :water creatures (like you might expect from the most dangerous predator of the seas).


Better now?
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Kael Hate on May 31, 2010, 02:19:39 am
UPDATED!

Since the biggest comment was that it wasn't quite enough, I made it just a little more fragile but added a significant new active ability.

(BTW, the 'vulnerability' is a Passive ability, so it's not affected by Lobo/LS/Butterfly.)

Kraken|Leviathan now dies instantly unless underwater -- making it unusable as a "direct damage" spells -- but now provides hardcore complementary power to Flooding|Inundation, as it can kill :water creatures (like you might expect from the most dangerous predator of the seas).


Better now?
Even Better in theme. Think the Mirror match would be horrid. How about restricting  the target to a creature of less hp or atk so that opposing Kraken just cant kill each other by getting in first. Maybe change Water creature to any creature that is underwater.

Could add a tandem card to this.
Oceanscape - Your Battlefield is underwater. You gain :water :water :water each turn. Boosts the Monotype, but now mutation now kills your creatures.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on May 31, 2010, 08:11:22 pm
That makes sense.  I'll make that change when I get the chance.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: tyranim on May 31, 2010, 09:54:09 pm
lol.
*in an epic and raspy voice* and so, the kraken wars began... left and right, krakens were summoned to the battlefront, dozens dying in the process. how could kraken kill fellow kraken? i dont know......
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on June 01, 2010, 02:20:54 am
RE-UPDATED!


Kraken|Leviathan now only eat Water creatures that are smaller than they are.  (Which is none of them, but whatever. :) )
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: RavingRabbid on June 02, 2010, 12:15:26 pm
UPDATED!

(BTW, the 'vulnerability' is a Passive ability, so it's not affected by Lobo/LS/Butterfly.)

Better now?
Phoenix is affected by LS/Lobo/Butterfly.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Scaredgirl on June 02, 2010, 02:18:34 pm
Hm.. let me get this straight.. Unless you have Flooding/Inundation activated, you cannot play this creature because it will die instantly?

If that's the case, the I will give this card a low score because I don't like cards that force you to take some other card. It's bad for deckbuilding.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Malduk on June 02, 2010, 02:41:49 pm
I dont think there's anything wrong with cards that you have to play in combo. Sure, there's not rush to implement those yet while the game still needs more cards in general, but there's nothing wrong with this idea.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Scaredgirl on June 02, 2010, 08:39:59 pm
I dont think there's anything wrong with cards that you have to play in combo. Sure, there's not rush to implement those yet while the game still needs more cards in general, but there's nothing wrong with this idea.
Think about it. If you take this card, you have to take Flooding. You have no other options because without Flooding, this card is useless. That, paired up with high usage of :water, limits your deckbuilding options dramatically.

This card would make more sense if the creature for example took 2-3 damage when not under water. This way there would still be synergy with Flooding, but you could also use it in some other decks as a kamikaze character.
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Malduk on June 02, 2010, 09:06:54 pm
If you take buff card, you have to take creature, if you take anything that uses element other than your mark, you have to take something that will feed its cost. I'm going to unhealthy extreme here, but there are cards that require certain conditions to be met in order to be useful. This card is exactly the same. The only difference is that Flood is not as common as creatures or pillars, or in other words, its harder to meet conditions for this card.
Sure it limits your deckbuilding options, but its obvious that this card is a "combo" card with Flood. (Though even if you dont manage to setup a board for flood, you can use it as heavy hitting, expensive spark).
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Kael Hate on June 05, 2010, 06:26:23 pm
Watermark Free and Royalty free thanks to Photobucket.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g242/tygre138/monsters/kraken.jpg
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g242/tygre138/monsters/kraken.jpg)
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Essence on June 19, 2010, 09:12:39 am
Updated with the new image.  Thank you, Kael Hate!
Title: Re: Kraken | Leviathan
Post by: Arondight on June 19, 2010, 10:41:53 am
Release the Kraken!  :) Feels good to type it out after yelling it out in the middle of the night.........


I like the card, but I think it would be better if it would destroy any kind of creature with less HP. The cost is just too stringent as it is now and it would make the card pop more once you do get it out. Although, I can see the point being that it's able to control the water creatures not killed by Inundation..
blarg: